You could also view the general lack of Targaryen action as a reflection of how people often deal with grave, but long term, problems. You can fully believe that something dreadful will happen, but still devote far more effort to solving minor shorter term issues than dealing with the dragon down the road. The present has an immediacy and an inertia that can be very hard to beat. It might not be a rational evaluation of priorities, but it is how humans typically react.
Also, he didn't for certain know what exactly the problem was. Prophecy can be vague st times, and all he knew was that the "Terrible Thingl" that Westeros would be fighting was coming from beyond The Wall.
It's a little like most religious people in our world. Part of my family and friends are christian and I never understood, how you can really believe this stuff and think you are going for eternal life in heaven but on the other hand don't devote your life to it. I mean, if this religious stuff was real, I would act the way the religion wanted and not care too much about minor daily struggles. Still, it seems like humans don't work that way.
Expanding upon that idea it's also much easier to devote time and effort to an immediate small problem because you can see an immediate result in your actions. Where with large and or abstract problems they can seem as almost insurmountable especially since you can only take baby steps towards its resolution. I think that global warming is a great example. Political and scientific views aside if you have a system in place and are told that in 100 years that system will cause destabilization for your descendants while you currently are not feeling its immediate effect, its much more difficult to get people to rally behind a solution for it. Also like with global warming you will have some who deny it's an issue and think it's ridiculous to make preparations for it.
We all die anyway. Waste the resources on those that live now, not wasting it trying to fight the inevitable. Death comes for us all. One day no matter what we do, everyone will die. That's the Long Night.
The dagger, when placed on fire, showed the inscription "One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them"
You say Targaryens, but you mean GRRM. I find it fascinating that people are so into him that they think he hasn't totally checked out. He wasn't a great world-builder in the first place, and once he got paid he cared even less.
Keeping in mind that prophecies are often misinterpreted in the series, I think Aegon had one of his own. The basics of the prophecy are likely "Others are coming, eternal winter, the only chance is for Westeros to unite, and the Blood of the Dragon will be crucial". But that doesn't necessarily mean Westeros has to be politically unified under a Targaryen monarchy. Aegon could have perhaps gotten the seven kingdoms to forge a grand alliance while retaining their autonomy. This done he could have sworn his sword (and dragon) to the Nights Watch, to be on the front line while each kingdom has its own contribution to make. But I think Aegon saw the dream through the filter of his own ambition, that whatever dread the dream gave him, it was also an opportunity for glory. One which likely have shed far more blood than the more benign options may have. And with House of the Dragon showing that Daemon was never told of the prophecy, I give solid odds this will be the point it's forgotten. Rhaenyra is going to suffer a lot of changes in who her heir is, and before she can even think of confiding the information to her son Aegon she's captured and executed. It's going to be the longterm tragedy of this show I think, important information being lost because of what amounts to petty squabbling.
@@malcolmheather3204 Rhaegar found the prophecy written in a scroll in the Red Keep. Also, the Mad King Aerys married his sister because a witch told him the Prince that Was Promised would be born in his bloodline. It was not forgotten until Aerys and Rhaegar were killed.
In true ASOIAF fashion, he probably received his vision in the form of oblique symbols and half-communicated ideas. I can't blame him for jumping to conclusions 😅 And yep, I think this is the moment it's forgotten and that you described the exact tragedy we're hearing towards.
The other important detail regarding Targaryens and the threat of the Others is Alysanne's account of her visit to the Wall (the only instance, iirc, of a Targaryen actually bringing a dragon to the Wall). She says that she tried multiple times to get Silverwing to fly her past the Wall and on to the north, but that Silverwing refused each time. So it seems like there's some sort of magical force preventing or deterring dragons from passing north of the Wall, which means any Targaryen attempts at a pre-emptive strike or at least trying to reconnoiter the threat would be impossible.
When I first read about Silverwing's misgivings, I wondered if dragons could just take a wide arc by sea and get north of the Wall without going near the Wall itself. Seems to be what Dany did in order to rescue Jon & Co. (needs to be confirmed by GRRM, though). So why didn't someone think of that and at least give it a try? If it didn't work, so be it. Targs were the only people who had the means to do proper aerial recon without warging, like you said. Go spy out the enemy. They really missed a huge opportunity while they still had dragons and the Others/wights had fewer members.
@@SherlockHolmesb-kp4ru Yikes, bad indeed, but that hadn't even occurred to me. Could a warg be powerful enough to control a dragon like that? The Targaryens can barely handle them. Imagine the mental fight a dragon would give a warg. Zaldrizes buzdari iksos daor. (Unless it's dead, smirks the Night King.)
I was thinking the same thing. Do the Starks hold part of the prophecy? " Winter is coming" makes more sense in that context than as a motto. Also I believe this is the first winter to start without a Targaryen on the iron throne. And look who's coming.
He's PERFECT for it. I actually got to meet him at Con 2019. Nashville. He's tall. I AM short tho. I've been following him longer than I can remember. I tried to use his videos as inspiration when I tried making them🙋🏽♀️🐦⬛🐉✌️
@@Wallrusface that's all I was interested in doing it for. Hobby. Fun. I did streams on Dunk and Egg. Made a couple of Westworld videos. Need a better computer. I haven't made one in years. I kinda had a falling out with a group. I think I have 150 subs😁 Robert is the MASTER storyteller and story "analyst". I never got in it to make $. Some people can and that's great. Have a great one✌️🖤🐉🐦⬛
George kinda forgot that Dany should be in Westeros 5/7ths of the way through the story. And he also forgot there is no way he gets her there in the sixth book either. On her way, maybe, but not there and landed.
When Jon Snow met Daenerys she should have given him an odd look of realization, and quoted that dream. That would have been cool, made their alliance make more sense, and show a level of foresight that sadly neither D&D nor Martin himself seem to possess.
When did the Targaryens lose their knowledge of Valyrian magic and technology? They fled the freehold expecting a disaster, and had years to bring whatever knowledge they wanted to Dragonstone, but they never seemed to use it. For example, imagine if Aegon had tried building a Demon Road in place of the King's Road. Did they lose it in the few generations since they came to Dragonstone, or did they not use it because there would have been religious pushback?
Most of there magic was pretty evil and I think the Targs wouldn't want to repeat it. It's almost like asking why don't America have as good architecture as Europe. They couldn't bring EVERYTHING over and they were also the weakest dragon riding family so they wouldn't be able to bring over the best sorcerrors or engineers
Eh, they were a minor family at the time--and even if they had been more powerful, they still couldn't possibly have had all the knowledge of Valyria's magic and technology, much less the means to replicate it all. It's also possible that for all of Valyria's power and glory, there could be more than a little exaggeration about them.
Targaryens appear to be an average/minor dragon rider family in the time of the freehold. They aren’t known for being powerful/influential prior to the doom. Important to remember that lots of Valyrians actually survived the doom, with many living in Lys and Volantis. They just weren’t the powerful dragon rider families, who seem to have specifically controlled the magic/technology.
The Targaryens were deposed by Robert Baratheon with the help of the Lannisters. When the Night's Watch was warning the king (Robert) and the citadel about the White Walker threat, they saw it as fake news (Cersei tearing up the warning messages, maesters of the citadel burning the warning messages).
I've watched a LOT of videos from a lot of creators but yours stand out in stark contrast. Your opinions are well founded and clearly based on a strong foundational knowledge of ASOIAF, youre concise, your videos are thought provoking (so much so, I find myself reexamining parts of the books) you're not redundant, nor are you needy. *FFS, I cannot stand the multitude of ways people will try to grow their viewership, be it redundancy, ASOIAF-bait, or begging on screen. Thank you for the fresh material. It's top notch. Subscribed.
I used to try and use Robert as inspiration for making videos. I haven't done it in years. I did get the chance to actually meet him in 2019. Nashville. He's tall. Or maybe I'm just really short. Been watching him for years now. He called me OG😁 He just has "it". Voice, brains, his way of wording it. Using bright colors for lettering. Him and Alt Shift X are the best. Imo. I haven't even watched this yet, but I'm going down the list of vids. I'm sure it's great. He's been picking excellent topics. Have a great one y'all 🙋🏽♀️❄️🖤✌️
I think it's most likely that the prophecy was lost during the Dance of the Dragons, when Rhaenyra was killed before she could tell her last surviving child (as far as she knew) about the prophecy. Or maybe she was only able to give him a hurried, incomplete explanation, which he was too young and distressed to fully grasp. The bigger question is "Why was the prophecy such a big damn secret?" Why were only two Targaryens at a time (king and heir) allowed to know it? Why couldn't Aegon I have hired minstrels to make up songs and spread the prophecy across the land, which you'd think would make unifying the Seven Kingdoms under Targaryen rule much easier. After all, by surviving the Doom because of a dream, the Targaryens had a proven track record for accurate prophecy. What better way to reduce resistance to Targaryen rule? It wouldn't have been enough alone, but they did have dragons to back it up. Or if for some reason Aegon and his sister-queens didn't think it was a good idea, they could have at least tried telling every mentally-competent Targaryen at adulthood, so that an unexpected death wouldn't break the chain of transmission. And they could have clarified their rules of succession at the same time, preventing anything like the Dance of the Dragons from ever happening. The Targaryen faith in their precognitive dreams seemed to prevent them from perceiving pitfalls that any critical thinker could see.
Love how you gave a shoutout to another channel that you took inspiration from. I recently listened to a LOTR video that sounded quite close to one of your own videos, but had no credit given. I appreciate you being honest and giving attention to others putting out good content as well. Cheers!
I am now just imagining a Mad Targaryen emulating when Caligula declared war on Neptune and had soldiers attack the waves. just instead it is an army marching up and slashing at snow and trees
That's an excellent comparison! I've been recommending whenever I can that fans of "A Game of Thrones' check out at least the TV series (if not the books), 'I, Claudius', which in part tells the story of Caligula (among other terrible Roman emperors), including a short scene involving Caligula's war on Neptune. GRRM was pretty clearly a fan of 'I, Claudius', ASOIAF has some striking similarities!
@@pietrayday9915 "I, Claudius" is a very unreliable source, particularly the parts about Gaius caligula, and Claudius himself. R. Graves even admitted that many stories therein were his fabrications to make the book more interesting and macabre.
In the Marines we have a saying, "complacency kills". It could have easily been a case of them just forgetting about the threat and over indulging in excess
It could also be what is called "Disaster Fatigue", in which people get tired of constantly being at alert and then become complacent. A balance between some downtime and "work" is best to remain vigilant.
On my video you used for this, the vast majority of the negative responses aren't really quibbling with the logic of how yeah it makes sense that would be passed down and why the Targaryens dropped the ball. A lot are more "I get all that, I still don't like it". Which is not really the response I was expecting, I was sure if I just laid out how it all fits together elegantly and with a human perspective folks would come around to how it's actually a really cool idea in the show and books that allows you to see the Targaryen dynasty not as a bunch of random characters but powerful people linked by a shared purpose they kept secret which explains much of their bizarre behavior. Especially when I realized it's already in the books, most fans just wrote it off as a rumor. But ah....not as much as I thought when I wrote and made that video. And also people don't understand how GRRM writes anyway, throwing around the word "retcon" like he doesn't make it up as he's writing each book. He's not Brandon Sanderson, he abandons previous ideas and plots and comes up with new one constantly during the writing process. He's just really really good at making sure the reader normally doesn't notice unless they look too hard. Like we do.
Imo people don't like it because prophecy smacks to much of tolkien-esque fantasy and a lot of folks are invested in this being the opposite on some level.
@@clownpendotfart my dude Gandalf said Bilbo was meant to find the ring, Elrod said Frodo was meant to carry it. Aragorn had prophecies tied to him. The Witch King and Glorfindel. That prophecy exists, is true is what I'm getting it
@@specialnewb9821 Aragorn did have prophecies, but not ones about him killing Sauron. Gandalf figured Bilbo was meant to have the ring after the fact, there was no prophecy preceding that. Same with Frodo.
It makes sense that Aegon never cared about seeing the Wall. It might not have even been in his dream, and he knew he wouldn't be alive when the attack happened. His goal was a unified nation, and so his focus was on the rulers and people.
I'm willing to bet it's going to be a big moment of House of the Dragon that the line of prophecy gets broken during the dance, perhaps even ending with Aegon III looking at the dagger, having no idea of it's importance. As soon as they had that lingering shot in the carriage of Aegon II staring at his fathers dagger with no context to what it actually represented it confirmed it in my mind that that's what they're going for
A few speculations: Valyrian prophecies are most likely the common chorus in a song with multiple verses. So, The Prince or Princess Who Was Promised may be referring to more than one person. If Jacaerys Velaryon and Sara Snow had a kid, and that kid or its descendants married into House Stark, then it might follow that Arya Stark would have been a likely candidate (considering she killed the Night King with the Valyrian steel dagger). This would also lead to at least two of the Three Eyed Ravens (Brynden Rivers and Brandon Stark, the latter later becoming King) being of Targaryen lineage. Likewise, Daenerys and Jon Snow could also be considered candidates for obvious reasons. If Cersei, Jamie, and Tyrion Lannister are actually the bastard issue of Aerys II and Joanna Lannister, they could be candidates as well (as Cersei would have been the Targaryen descendant in the throne when the Long Night happened). Gendry Baratheon has two drops (at least two) of Targaryen blood via Aerion (son of Daemion) Targaryen and Rhaelle Targaryen. If Brienne of Tarth has Targaryen lineage....you get the idea. And this doesn't even begin to cover the other Houses that have been confirmed as having Targaryen blood, such as Houses Valaryon, Hightower, Otherys, Longwaters, Plumm, Penrose, Martell, Blackfyre (whatever female descendants are left), whoever Saera Targaryen's three kids were, the Targaryen descendants whose branches of the family tree remain unknown, other dragonseed descendants, etc. While Valyrian prophecies are true, they're vague enough to be subject to interpretation and may be repeatable (think about the Valerian fire mage prophecy about the gold of Casterly Rock leading to the downfall of Valyria or Valyrians -- It certainly holds true with Tywin Lannister helping to bring down Aerys II, and Tyrion Lannister's role in bringing down Daenerys.)
Keep in mind also , that many things in the show were not from the book and so should not be considered at all. Primarily, therd was no "Night King" in the book. There was only the *Night's* King. That apostrophe makes a world oof difference, as the former was thd head of the WWs, but the latter was the 13th Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, who lay with a strange woman who had blue eyes and very pale skin. It doesn't directly say she was a WW or even a Wight, but supposedly she bore him a child, seemed to control him and led to him killing/sacrificing men of the Night's Watch. Eventually all this was discovered and both the woman and the LC were killed and the spell broken. In the show, the Night King was the original White Walker who led and controlled sll the other Wights and White Walkers. He turned Crasters baby boys into WWs. But again, he didn't exist in the books so Arya couldn't have killed him. Everything in the books though, points to Jon being the one who will save Westeros. How exactly he does it we don't know. Obviously he'll unite various leaders of Westeros and the WWs will have to be killed, but there will have to be a way to make sure that they never return and break the spell or magic thst causes the seasons to ladt for years in turn break the spell, or destroy the magic that causes the Land of Always Winter to be permanently frozen and return it to its natural state where it has four seasons like the rest of Westeros. The title of the 4th book "A Dream of Spring" is both literal and metaphorical. The literal meaning is the return of Spring and all four seasons. It is also a metaphor for psychological rebirth. A restoration of happiness, hope and an end to the war(s) that began when Ned was arrested and the long fight against the WWs
Naturally, the show ruins this by enabling Dany's three dragons to go north of it, to rescue Jon Snow, and his party, during Season Seven. But when has the last two or three seasons of that show actually done us the favor of following what GRRM wanted? Hell, even before the last three seasons, far too many "liberties" were taken with the overall lore, by the GOT show runners, meaning that the show was mostly doomed after Season One ended, anyway.
@@jacob4920 In the show, Daenerys and the Dragons may have bypassed the Wall altogether initially and traversed the waters north of Eastwatch. And we still don’t know what role, if any, Vermax will play at the wall in HoTD season 2. Maybe Sara Snow is a warg, and she warged Vermax over the Wall, something Alysanne couldn’t do with Silverwing. We’ll have to wait and see.
Possible butterfly effect where Aegon goes full Targ and tries to force everyone's cooperation with fire and blood. This turns EVERYONE off, and all of Westeros revolts and violently ends the dynasty. When the long night finally comes, the Nights Watch is steamrolled and an unprepared Westeros is devoid of life in no time. That, or Ros is made queen and poor little old me is forced to be her slave boytoy.
What’s there to really do? All Aegon knew was that an evil force was supposed to come from beyond the wall and that Westeros needed a Targaryen to fight it. He established a kingdom of Targaryns. What else is there to do?
You can understand the loss of focus on prophecy when you’ve lost the majority of your power to rule. Frantically trying to birth dragons after they all were lost would be terrifying.
At first i didn't really like the prophecy , mainly because i preferred the ambiguity rather than clarifying the Conquest was a more noble somewhat (obviously not entirely) justified pursuit. My head-canon i preferred more a "you broke it , you bought it" approach ; that eventually Aegon / Targs found out about the northern threats after the Conquest and it became their problem to eventually deal with. And i liked the subjective questioning how justified the Conquest was or not. But GRRM knows much better than me what to do with his own universe. Though regardless even before the reveal on HotD , was clear evidence of Targ prophetic connections quite early in their dynasty. Jaehaerys & Alysanne (Alysanne especially) tried to enact positive reforms and support for the North , NW / The Wall ; even having the kingsroad include the North / northern destinations as well. And seemingly with this prophetic knowledge potentially lost likely around the DotD and likely again with Baelor I's widespread book / text destruction ; there were Targ efforts to rediscover and figure these prophecies out - Aerys I , Bloodraven , Egg / his brothers , Jarhaerys II likely as well , Maester Aemon and Rhaegar etc. Though also Aegon I for example had his own problems in the south ; the dream may have been somewhat vague. If he knew there was a threat and mainly had to unify Westeros that was his main aim. It took Aegon roughly 15 years just to make peace with Dorne. And seemed he was trying to solidify alliances and unity most of his reign. And if AT1 found common prophetic ground with Torrhen he may have felt the North , NW / the Wall was in good hands while Aegon dealt with southern affairs. Though of course he could have personally ventured up North way before his last progress / literally decades later , to take more of an interest. But he was quite occupied down south as well. Also , the Others were seemingly dormant in a sense , we do not know exactly when they reactivated , so besides support and interest (which was given or not given in varying degrees by various Targs) , not sure exactly how much more was to be done. In the end I do believe this reveal was a retcon of sorts (though not unusual given GRRM's gardening style) , so some aspects will not line up perfectly ; but there were certainly textual clues that at least somewhat hinted at it. Though I always noticed stronger clues within the Targ dynasty after Aegon I.
@@minnumseerrund possibly being distracted , spreading himself thin , trouble making deadlines clearly an issue , may be dealing with writing struggles that many authors often deal with. But he's still created a very deep complex interesting universe / many concepts therein that so many of us are desperate to get much more material in and learn so much more about. I'd say what GRRM delivers he does so very well ; we just want much more from him. I think he knows what to do , what he does do is a very high standard ; just actually doing it / delivering it is another issue , that we really don't know exactly what's going on there.
@@AlexBB77 I'm not trying to take anything from Martin as a creator. The thing is, he's more interested in worldbuilding than finishing the main story. And that's fine, I dont blame him for that. What annoys me is him being disingenuous, even kinda snotty, about it. IMO the guy should be compared more to someone like Ed Greenwood (creator of the Forgotten Realms) than Tolkien - cause Tolkien finished his epic and THEN spend the rest of his life compiling the backstory.
The simple answer is it’s a retcon by George probably to tie the two shows together. It’s pointless to try and connect the dots. He writes organically and the story changes as he goes and when you literally take decades to write your story things won’t line up perfectly.
Me personally I think it's just a bad retcon that the showrunners of HOTD put into make it connect to game of thrones. Yes George signed off on it, but I don't think aegon had a prophecy on a knife, it was just doesn't fit when you think about it contextually.😅
It also feels like its trying to make the horrible Conquest feel "Noble" in a way, like he did it for a Prophecy rather than any of the other reasons he did before this was put into the show
its definitely a retcon but it was GRRM's creation / idea that HotD brought to life and tried to make work. Not HotD's idea that GRRM signed off on. GRRM literally teased this in 2018 when Fire and Blood was released with those quotes from GRRM roughly saying "some say Aegon I knew about the Others / White Walkers prior to the Conquest and were part of the motivation driving him" thats not the exact quote(s) but something close to that. Still a retcon but it was GRRM's that he chose to reveal via HotD rather than TWoW which has taken forever and still not released. Though some aspects like the dagger , i agree will likely not have much significance in the books ; the prophecy / Aegon's dream is from GRRM but certain aspects how its presented on HotD has not all been confirmed to be canon in the text. Like the dagger or even the exact transmission of this knowledge etc.
@@owenbridgersthe conquest wasn't really that horrible the faith militant uprising, dance of dragons and first blackfaire rebellion were way worse ,also it's canonically stated in fire and blood that westsros before the conquest was worse then post conquest it brought peace westsros as a whole had never seen so it was more of a noble act then not I guess it's hard for you to believe that not all wars are bad .
@@thatoneblackdude3333 It is stated in Fire and Blood? A book written by a servant of the victors? LOL. Of course they would say it is worse, to justify their foreign invasion and subjugation of the natives, via use of weapons of mass destruction. How can a offensive war against people who didn't attack you at all not be bad? I do find that hard to believe, and it sounds like something people who believe in superior peoples/races would say.
I believe you hit upon the crux of this, communication, or the lack thereof, drives the story. The whole thing about prophecy is a Game of Telephone, starting with the receiver and billowing out into the surrounding minds until it is lost.
Not all of the Valyrians aside from the Targaryens were killed by the doom. There is also the mighty house Celtigar 🦀🦀🦀 I suppose there are also the Velaryons but they’re pretty meh
No but neither of those two houses were dragon lords, when talking about Targaryens it's about the dragons. I believe there was one more man from Valyria that wasn't killed during the doom but he took his dragon to the ruins and nobody knows what happened to them, they never returned.
Funny that at the time of the Dance, the typical view of those houses was reversed ;) "Yes, the Velaryons are one of the most powerful houses in Westeros... and the Celtigars are also there"
Not to mention much of Essos is founded by ancient Valyrian blood. Valyria and Gys appear to be the starting points of civilization on Planetos, similar to the Mediterranean and African regions being prominent in our own. Dragon lords are just more revered in their Culture, and Targs def look down on non Dragon Lord families, which, the are cartainly the last of at this point, unless some Dragon Lords are hiding out in Asshai or YiTi or something. So, a TON of the life on Planetos is of Valyrian heritage.
I can just imagine the fire mages learning Targaryen’s are trying to turn themselves into dragons with wild fire. “Uhhh hey guys? That doesn’t even make the slightest bit of sense.”
Not all the dragons died during the dance, Silverwing, Sheepstealer, Morning and the Cannibal did survive. But something I don't understand is that Rhaena did hatch Morning, so both she and Baela possesed the knowledge on what need to hatch dragon eggs so it makes no sense that they never tried to hatch more dragons because there was probably more eggs at Dragonstone
I would seem that since the Targaryens see that they need to have one of their own at the head of the seven kingdoms in order to defeat the Others, and assuming they trust in the Starks, then strengthening the kingdom as a whole would go a long way to fighting the other when that time came. Also as you pointed out their was a lot of unsuitability in the Targaryen dynasty and just holding onto power quick became the central issue. We also have to remember Sir Barerster Selmy postion on Ragear, at first Regear didn't have interests in warfare but then one day did after reading a book remaking that" apparent he must become a knight". It would put a lot more context on what Regear was supposedly doing behind his fathers back if he rediscovered the prophesy or found some more info that was closer to the source in a book. Working to regain the broken turst with his nobles, looking to supplement his father with a Kings Moot, and fulling the marriage pledge of Ice and Fire with the Starks. And Regaer finaly leaving not just three members of the kings guard but the three best members consider the best knights in the entire kingdom not to protect the child from the pledge of Ice and Fire. As for why the Targaryens neglected the wall, they though just being head of the seven kingdoms would be enough, and their were more pressing issue to keeping them selves on the throne then garrisoning the first line of defense that as far as they were aware was capable and had the backing of a trusted house should things get worse. a more concerning question is why are their not followers of Azor Ahai at the wall? These people directly believe their god is in opposition tit he great Other and the Nights Watch is the first lien of defense directly positioned in the way of the Others.Unless 100% of the followers of Azor Ahi had no idea of the wall and the Nights Watch then surrly their must have been members to zealous in their beliefs that they would travel all the way to the other side of the world to join the Nights Watch worse case senior the Great Other and the Others come in their lifetime.
The pact between the Targaryens and the Starks prommised a PRINCESS to marry a Stark BOY....something never done before...it would be the very first time both linneages would interlink...officially that is...The baby that supposedly born by a stark bastard girl and that prince that arranged the said pact, once again supposedly, died at birth and took her/his mom...showed how that would go huh? anyway...
Daemon touched the tree and saw the entire of game of thrones. He was so bummed out that lost his will to live, and didn't even bother to keep the riverland army
Kinda reminds me of Babylon 5. The Minbari waited longer than the Targaryens (almost 1000 years) for the prophecy to be fulfilled. Their entire society was built around it. Most of them had lost faith in the prediction becoming truth and acted in ways that undermined surviving the war against the Shadows, even with all the signs that things were starting to develop.
I'd say that perhaps they went with the Dumbledore method. Same reason Dumbledore didn't make it his life's mission to hunt down and destroy Voldemort right after his "defeat" to ensure he could never come back or regain power. The same same reason he didn't actively go looking for him to fight him after his return. It was because he believed whole heartedly in the prophecy foretold about such things and as such knew that it was not him that would be the one to end Voldemort. He knew Harry would be the one to do it and thus all he had to do was wait till he was old enough, prepare him as best he could, then just watch more or less. If Targaryens knew that there would be some mythical hero that would eventually spring up from their bloodline that would save the world from a wintery doom, then I would think trying to take direct action against the while walkers would've been detrimental because you aren't the one that is supposed to be doing it. And if they were certain it would come true no matter what, not much point trying to bring it about or second guess if its you, because its gonna happen either way. So instead they focused on matters that they felt they could control, like everyone else does, which is nothing but day to day life stuff.
“All of Westeros must stand against it”. So Cersei not fighting them. The ironborn. 5 of the seven kingdoms. The show really made the long night a total joke. Not even the final battle. Just a footnote in the story of anything but Ice and Fire on HBO.
The Whitewalkers and Undead could not cross the magic barrier of the wall foundations until it was brought down by an undead dragon. Until the Targaryens arrived, the wall was 10,000 soldiers strong while the seven kingdoms were 'divided'. and the North was a strong kingdom in its own right. Perhaps Aegon's dream was devised and a projection of will (like a warg might do) by the Night King into the mind of Aegon to a) bring dragons to Westeros expecting one to eventually come north of the wall and b) break the strength of the independence of the North and other six kingdoms through promoting a chaotic and false unity. Perhaps the sum of the parts was the strength of Westeros, and the competition between kingdoms led to nobleman feeding the strength of wall garrison. The dream allowing the Targaryens to escape the doom ov Valyria could also be part of the Night King's plan...... just another theory. If the Targaryens had perished in the doom, and never come to Westeros, a Dragon (who hates the cold) would never have ventured north of the wall for the Night King to utilise.
How can you say that they are unrelated, when the characters are all part of the same story and they happen within/follow the same timeline of events of all the books?
There's a simpler explanation. This is the author's first big retcon to make the new book/series agree with the old. There's nothing in the books that says Aegon a prophetic dream but many descriptions of Rhaegar doing so.
Isn't it implied that Rhaegar heard it from the Woods Witch that he met at Summerhall which he frequently visited? Also, as we know from the books, Rhaegar was very studious and liked to read a lot, and it wasn't until he read about the prophecy thst he realized that he needed to train and learn to fight for what he believed was his role to play in leading some upcoming battle. So either the WW told him what to read or he discovered it in a book he read on his own without any prompting from the WW. I think it all makes sense with no retconn need at all, just a little flexhing it out.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but the shows aren’t cannon. It’s an adaptation. Just like when they said Daenerys was immune to fire in the show, she’s not. But it’s hard to say since George can be a tricky…
No. George always knew how the sgory would end and what roles certain characters would play, along with how the WWs would finally be wiped out so that thry could never return. A man as brilliant as GRRM doesn't need to rely on fan theories. To sugges otherwise is an insult.
@@Rumkitty2000 Alright, simmer down there bud. No writer ever knew everything they were going to write decades in advance. Stories are constantly rewritten and reworked. Otherwise we would have had Winds of Winter much sooner if you were correct in your theory. Love the man all you want, I'm not accusing him of a crime.
@chrisjackson1215 All I'm saying is that he had a framework, a destiny for certain characters, and an ending. It's the putting it all together that's tough, and I don't see him taking theories from fans when they don't even know what will happen.
They knew that the prince that was promised would come from their line, but until Danny (or just because it was for Jon) the dragons would not go that far north of the wall and the walkers were primarily deep in the heart of winter, without the dragons they couldn't do anything about it and bringing it up to the realm it would not be believed by anyone but the watch.
I do like that they incorporated the Long Night into this show. I got a 3 eyed raven tattoo. I had an old awful one from when I was 18 and got it covered🐦⬛💕 Awesome vid Robert
Wonder why it had to be a secret? Couldn’t Aegon have just told everyone about the prophecy, to make sure people would always be ready? If anything, it would give the Targarians more legitimacy
One thing I would like to know is: The alchemist guild loved the Targaryens, what will they do in the story if Aegon (F-Aegon) tries to take King's Landing? They have stronger wildfire now that dragons are back.
@@thatoneblackdude3333 "They (alchemist spells), hmmm, seem to be working better than they were" Hallyne smiled weakly "You don't suppose there are any dragons about, do you? This was after Danny's birthing of dragons. He also mentions their spells haven't been as effective since dragons died out. Wildfire is more potent and easier to create now that dragons are back.
What if Aegon told Torren about his dream and knew that a song of ice and fire meant that one day the Stark and Targaryen blood lines will merge naturally which is why Aegon rarely checked on the North and trusted them explicitly. The Starks would walk away knowing they essentially still controlled the North and one day a Stark would rule. 🤷🏻♂️
Aegon certainly seemed motivated by a mission. He could have focused on Essos, which is generally more prosperous than Westeros or set himself up as the king of the Narrow Sea. Instead, he went on a spree of conquest with quite limited resources (not counting the dragons). It makes sense that he may have been motivated by a prophetic dream, either his own or from the Dreamer who foresaw the destruction of Valyria. It really makes me wonder though why prophecy seems to focus so much on the Targaryens, and not at all any other family of dragon riders.
I think the reason they didn’t do anything north of the wall was 2 reasons. 1. The dragons refused to fly over the wall, which probably scared the dragon riders. 2. The knowledge of the Long Night was lost during the Dance. Aegon II didn’t know about it unless Rhaenyra told him right before she died, which I doubt. She might have told Aegon III, but I doubt it. Jace would’ve been the only one she told as he was her oldest. I then think it was rediscovered by blood Raven via his green seeing. He saw the past of Aegon the Conqueror explaining his dream or whatever. Then they made preparations, maybe saw the inscription in the Dagger? Which was then written down, and eventually a young Rhaegar found the prophecy while looking through a royal library.
Very nice, thank you! I think there is another angle you did not consider - every Targaryen king believed "he" is the one from the prophecy and the war will happen in his lifetime. Aegon the conqueror, in my opinion, at first did not invade to build a kingdom. He invaded to build an army, as he believed the invasion from the north is imminent. As time went on and nothing happened, he waited, switched to kingdom-building and when he grew old and still nothing, was forced to admit he is not the one. But I would bet he believed it is his son (from MY blood comes...). Subsequent Targaryens had similar believes. I bet Maegor believed the invasion is imminent, he is the one, and acted accordingly. Viserys believes it will happen soon and his beloved Rhaenyra is the one. Prince Rhaegar believes he is the one at first, than his son. And than, well, we know.
@@clownpendotfart Not necessarily, what would you have him do? It was manned, supplied, with Starks just south if it in this time. He would probably also know how static defenses of this magnitude usually do not keep out the invader anyway. I do agree though, it is likely GRRM added this later.
@@clownpendotfart It presumes he believed the wall will stop the invasion. Maybe from what he saw in his dream, he knew it will not and the battle will in the south. Thus yes, the wall is nice first warning/delay, but you know it will fall when the attack comes and do not invest much. Again, I agree it is probably new retcon by GRRM, but I think it works.
Thank you for all the effort you put into this video, I enjoyed it quite a bit and for recommending the other video. Honestly, your video raised so many interesting points with me that I could go on for quite a while about them. But the one that really keeps popping up in my head is that at the same time that the Targaryen’s lost all of their dragons, the Night’s Watch began to go down hill in a bad way. I fully admit that it could just be historical coincidence and humans being humans but it doesn’t feel like it. I think it’s pretty obvious that dragons were strongly connected to magic but I suspect that their death was either a cause/effect of magic beginning to leave the world or possibly that something had gone very very wrong with the world. While the return of dragons meant magic was back and possibly that the world was back on a path were it could be saved. So the death of the dragons happening at the same time as night watch starts to get hit with body blow after body blow feels like some luck, magic, or karma had gone. Thoughts anyone? Also when I have a drink or two them get all conspiratorial, I start looking at the whole breath of history of the setting and it’s starts to look like a giant chess game between two all powerful opponent. The Valyrian build their empire of fire and magic with almost endless dragon power, then it gets destroyed by the doom and almost all dragons are killed except for a small number that escape. The Targaryen’s unite the seven kingdoms, the family line is growing wildly, and they are breeding dragons like crazy. Then the Dance of Dragons happens and the family is almost annihilated and their dragons are dying off. It feels like two sides of game being played… or maybe I’m just seeing things.
I think the Targaryens persistance to add Dorne to the fold has to have connection with Jon (since he was born in Dorne) and Young griff(if we assume he’s truly Rhaegar’s son Aegon) being part of the the Dragon must have three heads prophecy .. Because both of these events won’t happen if Dorne didn’t join the fold and their existence is affected by that condition. Also, maybe Aegon the conquerer informed Torrhen that there must always be a Stark in winterfell in order to make sure Starks won’t lose their ruling seat under any circumstances at least until Jon is born to complete the prophecy (assuming Jon is the son of Lyanna).
Also, regarding passing the prophecy it could’ve been lost with Jace being the last to know it with inheritance. Potential spoilers!!!! But then in house of the dragons Aemond has the dagger after Rook’s rest and he speaks Valyrian fluently. Maybe he read it and then informed Alys Rivers about it and she became what we know as the ghost of high heart since the prophecy surfaces again during Aegon V/Jaehaerys II reigns from a “wood witch”.
Well they did do something. Targaryen Kings since the time of Aegon always made sure that the Night's Watch was well manned. They also put a lot of time and effort into securing their lines to ensure that a Targaryen would sit the throne when the time came to deal with the threat from the far North.
I wonder if the downfall of the nights watch also came a bit through the Targaryens: before them there probably were constant foghting between the lords of the lands. Not only huge battles, but also little disputes like the one in the second hedge knight book. And after those battles the prisoners might be ransomed or sent to the wall, which probably kept those numbers high..
I believe that 1 of the main reasons the Targaryens appear to not better prepare Westeros is the conqueror's generation, and the most immediate following did, within human capability The conqueror's generation was raised by those who directly felt the aftermath of the doom. The doom felled a nation only lesser in success than the Yi Ti. The conqueror and it's descendants did toil w/ routine failures in consolidation as well as rebellion, but they still did explore, & interact/discover ancient characteristics of Westeros which mirrored things they would have known of from Essos (the Wall & the 5 forts). The Targaryens might be the only family other than the Starks that realize & accept there are things in this world much more powerful than dragons.
I suspect the White Walkers attacked Westeros because the Targaryens got murdered or chased out. They probably knew about the song of ice and fire too, and knew they wouldn’t win while Targaryens were still in Westeros. Not a coincidence that the White Walkers started attacking as soon as Danny and her brother arrived in Essos
Because that plotpoint didn't exist yet. It's very hard to retroactively insert a motivation into a prequel. It's George's story, he has the power to declare this, but it just makes for a worse story.
One thing that confuses me is why this prophetic dream wasn't made public. Even with the dangers of properly interpreting prophecy, it strikes me that having the word get out that Targaryens had to rule the Seven Kingdoms because of danger from beyond the Wall would be to their advantage. It could make people more afraid of revolting, or at the least ensure they only replace one Targaryen with another. Announcing it at the wrong time might have been seen as a desperate act and inspired disbelief. (I think of Abraham Lincoln only announcing the Emancipation Proclamation after a Union victory to have the act taken more seriously.) But during the Targaryens' long years of peace and general control or trying to bring in Dorne… Wouldn't that help? Some parts could be kept secret without hiding everything. That way, it wouldn't depend on each reigning monarch being able to share the information with a designated heir. Policy and national mythology could be purposefully crafted to promote this purpose. Would this Valyrian prophecy have caused conflict with the Faith of the Seven? Is that it? Were they afraid of drawing the Others' attention and having them move earlier than otherwise? Would it have made them too much of a target for those who would support the Great Other?
Do you think the White Walkers/Others were keeping abreast of the political situation in the realm? Meaning did they choose this particular time to attack based on the realm being divided, leaderless, and plagued by civil war?
Maaaaybe. I mean, realistically they could not have picked a better time to return than just before/during the war of the 5 kings. But If that’s true and that’s what they were waiting for, why didn’t they invade just before/during The Dance Of The Dragons? If I remember correctly, the dance was a much more fractious and destructive war for westeros as a whole than TWOT5K. Perhaps the dragons have something to do with them biding their time a little longer.
There's a theory that the night king, being a three eyed raven himself, manipulated events to get himself one of danearys' dragons so he could bring down the wall as there was probably no other way to do so, at least in the show.
They had other civil wars that could have provided such an opportunity, and the prologue to Game of Thrones in which they attack some watchmen precedes the outbreak of the War of the Five Kings (or even the death of Jon Arryn).
@@guru230It is what the horn is supposed to do. Dragons wouldn't be able to bring down the wall (or fly over it) because of its anti-magic shell. The show often gets half of the story wrong and then makes up the other half.
Thing is: 1. As far as foundation myths go, conquerors tend to love them as justification to rule. The word 'thug' comes from a made up gang in India who the British insisted they were the only force that could put them down. They don't tend to keep them as closely-guarded secrets, particularly given how much difficulty the early Targs had in maintaining control 2. You would think if Vizzy was hyped up on mythical prophesies, that would motivate him to suck less 3. Who told Jayjay about the song? Did Aegon the uncrowned not fancy his chances and decide to tell his six year old brother or something?
Aegon was the previous king firstborn son, he was the heir. Viserys can't just break the rules because he likes her daughter more. Then every lord will disrespect the ruler
I think the biggest take away from this video is that basically the Hightower's ambitions is to blame for almost everything because it seems the most successful Targaryen rulers were co-rulers with a Targaryen King and a Targaryen Queen of almost equal power. So the wisest course of action would have been for Rhaenyra to marry Aegon II & to co-rule as King & Queen hence preserving the Targaryen line & preserving the dragons. All the most successful Targaryen rulers seemed to have siblings were on the same page. Thoughts about this?
despite the interesting questions and revelations that this prophecy creates I am still of a mixed opinion overall about this dream being why aegon conquered westeros because it takes away a lot of the agency aegon had in conquering, instead of being the will of one man changing the course of history and creating a vast prosperous kingdom now its instead oh he felt he had no choice to do it, it also takes away a lot of the interesting and difficult moral greyness because now instead of the conquest being something that could be viewed either as a brutal war of aggression that killed thousands and destroyed kingdoms and houses that had existed for millenia or as a necessary if bloody unification of a divided continent in order to create a (arguably) more peaceful and prosperous realm, but now there's almost no moral ambiguity because no matter how brutal the conquest may have been it becomes unequivocably justified because it was necessary to save the world and to me that's just a lot less interesting than what we had before
What is to consider is that the dance wasn't this unexpected. Let's see at the times of Aenys, Maegor and Jaehaerys. To this time, the targs had 6 dragons. 1 absolute monster, Balerion, 1 bis dragon being vhagar and 4 normal sized dragons with Quicksilver, Dreamfyre, Vermithor and Silverwing. The point is, all 6 dragons we know of to this time are bound to a rider from House Targaryen. Then Maegor's reign happened and for the first time known a dragon killed another dragon with Balerion killing Quicksilver. This was the only dragon-vs-dragon encounter and it ended deadly. After Maegor's death, Jaehaerys took over the rule and under his reign, all the dragons of the targs had riders, except Balerion, who was getting old to this time. But, the point is, under his rule the targs were strong and united, the dragons were in check with competent riders and they would have defeated any enemy, if they used their full power with Vhagar, Vermithor, Dreamfyre, Silverwing, Caraxes and Meleys, while there were some dragon eggs left. Then Jaehaerys' children died one by one and Viserys got the throne. Let's take a look at the state of the dragons to this time: Balerion was dead, Vhagar, the biggest dragon of this time, was anywhere, Vermithor, Dreamfyre and Silverwing were unclaimed, Meleys was with Rhaenys on House Velaryon and Caraxes and Syrax were with House Targaryen. 3 dragons in check, and not even big ones, compared to the others. Ok, in defense of Viserys, it got way better during his reign in sheer numbers, gaining Seasmoke, Sunfyre, Vermax, Arrax, Moondancer and Tyraxes, reclaiming Vhagar and Dreamfyre, but still having Vermithor and Silverwing unclaimed on Dragonstone. So, there was the apex of power for the targs, but then the dance happened. But really, and there is Viserys with his blindness and stupidity to blame, his house has divided and it wasn't that hard to foretell, that soon enough dragon may be fighting dragon again. Looking back in history to the battle beyond the god's eye, it was clear what would have happened. Even if there wouldn't have been a rift between the blacks and the greens, it was just a question of time. House Velaryon was becoming a dragonlord-house itself, while still inferior to the targs and tightly connected, but there was no need for this to endure for all eternity. And if it wouldn't be House Velaryon, another house may get dragons by marriage with the dragonlords. The Valyrians managed somehow to keep their differences in check despite 40 rivaling dragonlord-houses and at least 300 dragons, but in Westeros hell broke loose when 2 half-siblings fought for the throne. So, in order to be a force against the Others, the targs should have their priorities in check. Dragons were their power. 1. Keep as many dragons as possible under control 2. Keep the dragonlords from open battles under each other 3. Keep the Valyrian blood strong enough to control the dragons (at least this they got, considering Dany with her 3 dragons) 4. Increase their numbers for enough candidates for dragon riders 5. Keep the realm united
