namaskaragalu , please make a video about this question sir. if jeeva is considered as carpenter and krishna as owner, then what krishna says only that has to be done by jeeva. because jeeva dont have freedom(aswatantra kartutva), then whats the point of having 'ichha' in jeeva? i heard in one of the discourses, if krishna's ichha and jeeva's ichha match then the work is done , and if they dont match work wont happen. if it is so , then whats the point of having ichha in jeev as he has no choice of what he want to do?. if what krishna says only that is done then everything wrong things are also done by his iccha if it so then there is no point in 'vidhi nisheeda' . please please throw some light upon this with some live examples, its not able to understand correctly . sorry for any wrong typings. hare karishna🙏 🙏
Hare Krishna. Very good set of questions. Let me try to answer in the same order. The jeevas (us) have kartrutva just like how the carpenter, even without his tools, has the ability to make furniture. Once the carpenter's tools are supplied & opportunity arises (prakriti with a human body for the jeeva), the jeeva is given that freedom (asvatantra kartrutva) to act as per his will. The jeeva now has the ability to make choices (not considering past karmic influence for simplicity). The jeeva is now capable of making choices even against God (this freedom too is given by the same God - aswatantra kartrutva). In the case of the carpenter, the owner has given particular instructions on how He wants the furniture, if the carpenter is to get paid. The carpenter is rewarded or punished based on how well the instructions are followed. Being the animitta-bandhu, the supreme well wisher of the jeeva, Krishna desires that the jeeva be rewarded. But never forces the jeeva to submit to His instructions (keeping aside karmic rewards & punishments). So, the jeeva can desire against the Lord's will, act against His desires and not get the desired reward. So, the carpenter can use his ability to make something other than what's been told. In which case (jeeva's iccha different from Lord's iccha), the work is incomplete - the carpenter doesn't get paid. Let's understand this with another example. The teacher has taught his students very well, supplied them with answer sheets and a question paper. The teacher is a well wisher for all the students he has taught and desires that the students write the correct answers and pass out with flying colors. Yet, the students can act otherwise - they can write incorrect answers, against the will of the teacher and fail the exam. The student's best interest is in aligning their will according to the instructions of the teacher. Likewise, the jeeva's best interest is in aligning his will according to the instructions of the Lord. Otherwise, work (moksha) doesn't get done. Note that the jeeva is fully given the freedom to not choose moksha, just like how a student can always choose distractions over education. There's one more important concept - the svabhava of the jeeva. Dr. Prathosh has beautifully addressed this topic, in a systematic manner. I suggest going through the topic - 'Vedic Concepts of Svabhava explained, by Dr Prathosh'. The concept of jeeva's iccha, his kartrutva and karmic influences are explained in depth. Once that is understood, the idea of vidhi nishedas will become crystal clear. Feel free to get back as needed. 🙏
@@VedicDiscourses hare Krishna 🙏 Thank you for the convincing reply . Explained nycly ....I went through the video u had suggested by Dr pratosh. He also explained awesome. In addition some more qstns rise ! If you' don't mind pls help me out . I had went to other discourses , what is this concept of "bimba-pratibimba"? In some I found that krishna is in everyone's heart (bg. Sarvasya Hridi sanivisto) ....and some discourses told that if he lifts his right hand then this body's righ hand is lifted ! Now I'm typing means he is also typing within me , he is acting and I'm mirroring it . Is this correct ? If it is then where is free will ? Each and everything is done by him means how to understand our free will! U had given example of teacher, yes teachers teaches everyone and gives exam paper and jeevas will write the exam, but teacher residing not only outside but also inside and writing exam also remembering an forgetting answer because Matta smriti janamapohanacha. He is going to activate memories and all as said in Geeta. How to understand this! Prof .Haridas bhat in one of his discourses has said he controls our mind . Then how to understand free will? In protector of cow also he is residing and feeding it. In slaughter house also he is inside slaughterer and killing it. If seen deep view! So how to understand this! Also one more small doubt was.... Suppose I got bitten by a dog very badly let's say! Now this action happend because of my previous karma. So in some other life I had bitten the dog so it came as reaction if this is so. Then in previous life , when I was hitting the dog it should have done something to me in some other previous life! So somewer started, it did then I did then it did again I did ... how this karma concept very hard to understand!! Is there an end ? Geeta says if we get knowledge then it's end of karma !! How to understand this in practical life ? Because day to day many things take place !! So just curios to know. I have been following madwacrya philosophy also , now sadguru jaggi vasudev concepts and theories also makes lot of sense ! And there are many many enlightened beings with him who are very convincing in their action and life . I personally feel less people do sadhana and yoga in here. Just wanted to motivate with such great essence of knowledge given by madwacrya ! A live example is much needed in out generation !. Anyways sorry for any wrong words. Hare Krishna 🙏.
@@mantramusicmeditation5524 Let's understand bimba-pratibimba bhava. As you rightly quoted from the Geeta, 'sarvasya chaham hridi sannivishtah, the Lord is in everyone. What's He doing there? He is the aadhaara or the foundation for that jeeva's living. He is the one that enables jeeva to experience life. The jeeva has no capacity to move matter without the Lord - the jeeva is completely dependent upon the Lord (inspite of having kartrutva & iccha). The jeeva's desires can never happen without the Lord as the medium. The Lord is the one who fulfills the desires of the jeeva. Having said that, let's come to some examples. If I lift my hand up, it's implied that the Lord took that desire of the jeeva, and according to the jeeva's karma & svabhava, sanctioned that desire which is then carried out by Him through the respective abhimani devatas. In many cases it also happens that the desire isn't sanctioned by the Lord as in the case of a paralysed person. In other words, He enables our acts and in so doing, I mirror His actions - bimba-pratibimba. Without the bimba (the original, the Lord), the pratibimba (reflection) would never exist. Or, without the paramatma, the jeeva can never function. Let's come to the concept of free will - if the bimba chose to ignore the jeeva svabhava & iccha / desires / free will of the jeeva and acted, yes, we could say that the jeeva has no free will. But, the Lord is not doing that. His actions are mirroring the desires, svabhava & karma of the jeeva. Just like an impartial judge or a teacher punishing or rewarding. Let's take up the example of the teacher again. But now, we will also consider the same teacher as being within the student too. The teacher, the same Lord as Vedavyasa has given all the instructions for the jeeva to succeed and deliver himself. The teacher, the same Lord as Paramatma is seated within the jeeva to enable the desires of the jeeva. As the famous saying, where there is a will there is a way. The jeeva strongly desires to follow the instructions of Lord Vedavyasa, which the Paramatma enables. Or the jeeva strongly disagrees with the instructions, which again the Paramatma enables. Free will is still there - otherwise, the Lord would not be impartial and would have to be subjected to His own rewards & punishments. Yes, each and everything is done by Him, but not independently - not disregarding the free will & svabhava & karma of the jeeva. Matta smritir jnanamapohanam ca, from Him comes forgetfulness, knowledge & everything else, in accordance with the jeeva's svabhava, karma & iccha or free will - never independent of those. Just like a postman delivering a post and not being part of the happiness or sadness contained in the message, the Lord is enabling the jeeva's actions without being subject to the jeeva's karma. So, even though the Lord is the supreme well wisher of the jeeva, the jeeva is undergoing rewards & punishments as per his own doings (which again were enabled by the Lord, without partiality like how a postman doesn't deny delivery because it contains sad news) - be it the cow getting slaughtered or the cow that's fed for life in a goshala. Coming to the next example of getting bit by a dog. My desires and actions have led me to this incident. How to understand this? Karma is complex. In our particular example, it's not that the exact reaction to a karma is the opposite of it. For example, in most of the cases, the judge doesn't order execution of a murderer. The exact reaction need not be the same action - and it would still be justice. So, the jeeva might have caused some harm to the jeeva in the dog not necessarily by biting, and that might have resulted in the act of biting. How to get out of this cycle of karma, this cycle of birth and death then? By acting in gnana, by following the instructions as laid out by Krishna in the Geeta. Nishkama karma - acts done in accordance with the Lord's instructions and done for the Lord do not bind the jeeva to samsara. In fact, it unbinds the jeeva from samsara. That's the way to get out of this cycle and that's the path of moksha, as said in the Geeta. Another thing to note is that there's a difference between gnana (or knowlege in the general sense) and realization. For example, knowing that jalebi is a sweet is gnana, and knowing it by tasting, is realization. This realization leads to bhakti which breaks the vicious cycle of karma. Again, there's a pitfall here - gnana or realization in itself cannot deliver the jeeva. It's the Lord who is that supreme independent who recognizes that gnana & delivers the jeeva personally - unlike what the mimamsa darshana says, which Sri Madhvacharya refutes. Karma in itself is powerless - it's like disregarding the people making & enforcing a policy and holding the policy itself in full authority. There are a great many speakers currently, but not everyone aspires for the same destination. Not every jeeva's desires are equal. Every philosophy although aspiring for moksha, carries a different definition of moksha. So, not everyone is aspiring for the same goal even though the same technical terms are used. It's left to us to make the right choices for ourselves. Feel free to get back as needed. Hare Krishna 🙏
@@VedicDiscourses wow....very much convincing answer sir. I'm very much happy I got to know some more aspects . Thank you very much for your time sir 🙏🙏. Many of my queries got solved . Really very thankful to you . Hare Krishna 🙏
@@VedicDiscourses hare Krishna 🙏 namaste , I had one small qstn if u could put some lights on it it will be very helpful , .... I heard a note saying " runanu bandena pashu patni suta alaya" from one acharya. N some explained marriage , cow, children and home is all bcz of predetermined runa* , I didn't get this point ! In marriage, whom one should marry n all , everything r pre decided !?