Why do German vise jaws open backwards? || RotarySMP

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Leinen E-125 bench vise restoration
__________________
Bastel provided a link to the original 1890 Patent from Jos Leinen:
worldwide.espa...
He felt front opening vises progressively loose guiding support the further they open.
It was well summarized by @MannoMax
As a German, this is how I learned it:
A vise with a back opening jaw is referred to as a machinists/toolmakers/mechanics vise, usually is made of cast steel, and is built much more heavily.
They are not as versatile as the other type of vise, but are much more accurate and stable. They were meant for precise bench work, like filing dies, or working on complex assemblies.
We also have vises with front opening jaws, those are usually called a smiths/ironworkers vise, they are usually made from forgings, are not as precise, but can handle much more abuse. They are meant for heavy work like chipping, bending, etc.
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____________________
00:00 - Intro
00:33 - Initial inspection
01:05 - Disassembly
04:56 - Paint stripping
06:49 - Electrolysis
11:22 - Ultrasonic cleaner
11:49 - Wire wheel
12:52 - Sandblasting
13:02 - Fine wire wheel
13:20 - Mail time
13:43 - Dressing off old scars
14:15 - Weld up scars
17:57 - Filing out scars
18:55 - Die grinder
19:40 - Extract broken screw
20:18 - Flattening the anvil
20:36 - Clarkson grinder set up
22:28 - Milling the anvil on the Maho CNC
24:25 - Paint prep
25:13 - First under coat
25:37 - Making new vise jaws
26:10 - The Do-All is still playing up
28:19 - spotting and second undercoat
29:18 - Machining the jaw blanks
30:55 - First top coat
31:37 - Finish machining the jaws
36:20 - Final top coat
36:54 - Case hardening the jaws
41:53 - Fasteners
44:12 - Final assembly time lapse
__________________
Music in this episode from Artlist.IO
AR Ferdinand - No Matter What Happens Well Be Okay
Captain Qubz - High Pulse
Castle Heist - Are You Ready - Stripped Version
Con Davison - Sofa Bed - Instrumental Version
Dan Mayo - Black Willow
Dan Zeitune - Siara - Instrumental Version
Dialgo - Kumare Brothers
Dizzy - Newer
Family Kush - Heavy Summer
Glories - Pagan Holiday
Indiana Bradley - Pale City Girl - Instrumental Version
Kiss The Earth - Call from Earth
Midnight Noise - Neon Run
Peter Spacey - Tech Knowledge
Risian - Asteroid Field
RocknStock - Fuel
RocknStock - High and Low
RocknStock - Run With It
Russo & Weinberg - Take Me Out - Instrumental Version
Seth Parson - With You
The Magnetic Buzz - A Real Cosmic Night
The Rallies - Are You Hearing Me - No Lead Vocals
YAHYAH - Jupiter Calling

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Опубликовано:

16 авг 2024

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Комментарии : 815

@wizrom3046 5 месяцев назад

The rear moving jaw design means that something really big and heavy can be out in the vice, and be totally over the workbench to be pounded on or drilled etc etc. Also, the object between jaws will sit on the vices solid body and the vice can be opened very wide, almost as wide as its whole body length. The modern vice with the moving front jaw is more versatile because generally the jaws are in front of the benchtop and you can clamp objects of weird shapes and long thin parts hanging off the bench. But there is a much smaller opening range and the further you open it the less strong and less stable it gets. So generally, the German style is good for clamping blocky heavy objects, especially if part of a machining setup like clamped on a large milling machine etc. Moving front jaw styles are more versatile, clamping lighter objects hanging off the front of a bench for hand working etc. I have a 45 degree vice that can clamp long stock vertically or horizontally, but my main work vice is a combo flat jaws plus pipe jaws which is fully rotating, so it can clamp anything off the front of the bench and at any angle (but with some loss of rigidity). Imdont have a large moving rear jaw vice, but if you think about it all the small drill press and milling vices are moving rear jaw, for the same benefits. 🙂

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

Thanks. That is the best description yet. Pinned!

@TlD-dg6ug 5 месяцев назад

Milling vise's (good ones) are fixed rear jaw, moving front jaw

@wizrom3046 5 месяцев назад

@@TlD-dg6ug I've never seen that type. Normally there is a solid base and a fixed jaw at one end, then a sliding jaw which slides along the base. Basically like RotarySMP's new vice in the video.

@baadtaste1337 4 месяца назад

Thank you for giving an answer that the video never did!

@kadmow 4 месяца назад

- not generically 'German"" (nor a machinists vise) but the vises of this design.... so on.... Specifically designed not for clamping large jobs in front of a bench edge but over the pivot - with parallel jaws. More or less a large engravers vise.

@MannoMax 5 месяцев назад

As a german, this is how I learned it: A vise with a back opening jaw is reffered to as a machinists/toolmakers/mechanics vise, usually is made of cast steel, and is built much more heavily. They are not as versatile as the other type of vise, but are much more accurate and stable. They were meant for precise bench work, like filing dies, or working on complex assemblies. We also have vises with front opening jaws, those are usually called a smiths/ironworkers vise, they are usually made from forgings, are not as precise, but can handle much more abuse. They are meant for heavy work like chipping, bending, etc.

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

Thank you, that is a very good and concise answer. I will put it into the video description.

@MannoMax 5 месяцев назад

@@RotarySMP Thanks 👍🏻 I feel honored 😅 One quick addendum: I've seen some people say its for supporting heavy work pieces. Note: Please *do not* rest heavy work pieces on your vises spindle, it will bend it and damage the vise. These Leinen pattern vises can hold heavy parts, I've used them to file dies and punches that I had to lower into the vise with the shops crane, but never rest them on the spindle.

@hiha2108 5 месяцев назад

@MannoMax Sorry, not cast steel but cast iron. Thererfore toolmaker vises are not as tough as the cast- or forged-steel ones.

@MannoMax 5 месяцев назад

@@hiha2108 Sorry, yeah, the east german tool maker vises were cast steel, I assumed Leinen also used cast steel, but turns out they use basic grey cast iron. Point still stands tho

@charlesangell_bulmtl 5 месяцев назад

east german tool maker vises ... good craftsmanship, personally, prefer the rigidity of this design. Seems to me, for resting on the 'spindle', as long as 1" of it were in the mating jaw, it would take pretty severe force to bend it...assuming, of course that those were mated machine surfaces.

@jamesschmames6416 4 месяца назад

"I don't want to go overboard" I think you blew wayyy past that milestone.

@RotarySMP 4 месяца назад

Yes, James, I think you might be right on that one :)

@jalans8173 4 месяца назад

Oh yeah, that ship has sailed.

@RotarySMP 4 месяца назад

@@jalans8173 Each little step seemed logical at that time .)

@secularnevrosis 4 месяца назад

@@RotarySMP You do tend get "damaged" by the aircraft industry. I know :)

@elliejohnson2786 4 месяца назад

I liked the cleanup of the machine used to make the holes in the jaws, most other youtubers don't include stuff like that and so I can't appreciate how much effort goes into cleanup and maintenance of machinery.

@RotarySMP 4 месяца назад

Thanks Ellie, yeah, I am constantly cleaning in and around the machine. It makes a lot of mess really fast :)

@svjness 5 месяцев назад

I just want to say that the number of setbacks, and "this didn't go how I wanted" events in this video matches my experience IRL. Good on you for not seeming phased by it, where as I'd have turned off the workshop light and not returned for a month.

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

Thanks for your kind feedback.

@Preso58 5 месяцев назад

It's refreshing to see a restoration paint job done WITHOUT rattle can paint. Nice vice.

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

Thanks Preso. This is a pretty nice paint. It flows nicely, and only make runs on the obvious, visible bits.

@patrickwalker2509 4 месяца назад

Nice to see someone spelling it the correct way...thanks Preso

@kadmow 4 месяца назад

: Well - what is the problem with paint in a can? (joking) - One can get any paint in a can (custom filled cans)... (even reusable cans which can be filled with a small shot of paint in one's own workshop... (I understand the sentiment, but the art is in the execution not the tools.) (Jacquard - YouCAN could even be a handy refillable AP device - even a tubeless valve stem can be used to recharge (with dry air) any can.) - hmmm

@JFirn86Q 5 месяцев назад

Love your tenacity and willingness to show your mistakes. Thanks for doing that. Nothing like spilling a can of paint and still being reminded of it for years to come as you see portions of it on your other tools! Who hasn't done that to some degree, let's be honest.

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

Thanks for your kind feedback.

@OmikronCZ 5 месяцев назад

I was brought here by the algorithm, total newcommer I watch the thing and I'm saying to myself this guy has sort of "This Old Tony" vibe and then the original fully functionning MAHO comes on the stage! It really made my day. Nice work with the vise BTW. Cheers to ThisOldTony! You got my subscribing and I'm off to explore your other vids...

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

Welcome. I hope you enjoy my other videos as well. Tony contacted me about his lube unit on the Maho a couple of years ago, and I gave him some tips on it. He kindly gave the channel a shout out in one of his last Maho videos. Boy did that light up my channel :)

@2112jonr 4 месяца назад

What a lovely restoration job, you must be very pleased with that. Nice work ! 🙂

@RotarySMP 4 месяца назад

Thanks. I really am happy how it came out. It is a nice tool.

@briantaylor9266 5 месяцев назад

A German would ask, "Why do everyone else's vises open the wrong way?" Maybe it's so that as the jaw is opened, the centre of mass of the vise and workpiece move inboard instead of outboard. Better when one is working with a wobbly bench.

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

Thanks for taking a stab at that Brian. The other way means you can locate the back jaw above the edge of the bench, and can clamp long parts sticking, up to the max jaw opening. Here that is limited.

@jimurrata6785 5 месяцев назад

I'd suggest that the front jaw is the one that gets the beating, so better that it's fixed rather than beating the hell out of the screw and slide.

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

Thanks for your input to that Jim.

@jimurrata6785 5 месяцев назад

@@RotarySMP I don't know for sure, but it's the first thing that makes sense..

@taunusmechanics3121 5 месяцев назад

In fact, there is an other common German vise, the Heuer Front, that opens to the front. But this was more for fabrication shops. The Leinen was more for the tool and die shop. This style is even called a toolmakers vice.

@RickRolling-tc7vb 5 месяцев назад

I guess what you lose in the workshop when things go wrong you make up in the video edit - really enjoyable content and a fine example of perseverence, optimism, skill and craftsmanship. Thanks Mark, always learning with you.

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

Thanks for your encouraging words Rick.

@tr3vk4m 4 месяца назад

It's good that you cleaned it up - you wouldn't want to end up with 'a dull vice'

@RotarySMP 4 месяца назад

No I wouldn't :)

@RichardKuivila1947 4 месяца назад

Yeah, Cleaning up the E in the casting makes it work SOOO much better !

@RotarySMP 4 месяца назад

Yes it does!

@theromihs 5 месяцев назад

Those copper jaws look really good on the vise.

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

Thanks for watching it, and commenting.

@bluesideup007 4 месяца назад

WOW. Whoda thunk a vice restoration could be so riveting. An enjoyable 3/4 hour on a Sat nite.

@RotarySMP 4 месяца назад

Thanks for the feedback. That helps.

@thaiexodus2916 2 месяца назад

Trivia. My mentor visiting a major Japanese manufacturing plant in Japan in the early 1950s that made gears. The entire factory was two buildings. One equipped with several dozen carbide cutting torches and steel stock. The second a vast warehouse lined with work benches over 100 feet long. About 200 work stations each equipped with files, templates and a vice. That was it. Torches, files and vices, the entire set of tools.

@RotarySMP 2 месяца назад

Weird way to make gears, hand made would never give the accuracy needed for reliable high speed gears.

@thaiexodus2916 2 месяца назад

@@RotarySMPI agree, but we've all seen oriental craftsmanship as precise as it gets with nothing but hand made primitive tools.

@RotarySMP 2 месяца назад

@@thaiexodus2916 Not only Oriental. There are Stradivarius-like master craftsmen in nearly all eras and cultures. Like our YT'er clickspring :)

@thaiexodus2916 2 месяца назад

@@RotarySMPI often recall seeing a hollow wooden ball about 10 inches across. About 100 exquisite Hindu pantheon figures meticulously carved into it with many small spaces revealing the inside of the ball. Looking closer, the figures are all three dimensional, the insides all carved through the little spaces. The inner carvings as perfect as the outside. Somebody's life work? Examining closely, it's a solid ball from a single piece of wood. No seams or joints.

@MikelNaUsaCom 5 месяцев назад

dunno, but seemed like a good paint job on the floor.. =D I got me a new tool - a break/shear/roller and got it mounted in the garage this weekend. cut a bit of sheet metal... fun times. Happy Sunday!

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

Yeah, at least my tiles wont rust now :(

@alfredneumann4692 5 месяцев назад

LEINEN was one of the world best vise manufakturers. I also own one since nearly 50 years, the 100mm version.

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

Thanks, good to know they last well. It is really a nice tool.

@Rsama60 5 месяцев назад

Ahh the good old Leinen vice. I have very fond memories about that vice. 1.) I went through an apprenticeship as a tool and die maker in the late 1970s. The vices we had? You guessed correctly, Leinen. 2.) In my home shop (I make knives as a hobby) I have two Leinen. A large 125 mm and small clock makers vice. 3) The original maker, Boley and Leinen is/was located in mx hometown.

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

It really is an iconic design. Lovely tool.

@BruceBoschek 5 месяцев назад

Absolutely superior job. We had 8 of those vises in the shop at the Max Planck Institute where I spent 12 years of my scientific career in many years ago. Thanks for letting us take a look at your masterful job.

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

Thanks for your kind feedback Bruce. Must have been a very interesting place to work.

@RutherfordRyan1 5 месяцев назад

Wow….Planck Institute….Can only imagine how good the workshop set up was

@ralfbauerfeind8236 4 месяца назад

The only thing even more advanced if you have a holder that enables you to adjust the height of the vise. Leinen make high quality vices, and I am glad to see you had done a good job at its renovation.

@RotarySMP 4 месяца назад

Yeah, those vise lifter are pretty common here.

@koukariotis 4 месяца назад

Pretty restoration! thank you very much for sharing. I did almost the same work, two years before, with a similar vise, some kilograms heavier and some decades older (!). I mounted it on a metal bench, reinforced with heavy Π profiles. Think about, if you apply a lot of force in the tightening, the wooden bench may have a problem! It may even break.😊

@RotarySMP 4 месяца назад

Thanks for your kind feedback. This bench is only temporary (in it's fourth year :) I have a nice slab of thick ply, and will weld up a frame for that new bench.

@Coconut7403 5 месяцев назад

I love these old vises they are a real vice of mine. I always wanted to add an thrust bearing but don't have the correct tools.

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

They really are nice. Given the speed of rotation, the thrust bushing is not a big disadvantage.

@Coconut7403 5 месяцев назад

@@RotarySMP Nice video now that I have watched it! The thrust bearing helps unscrewing the vice easily if you tighten it down very hard and it is easier to apply more Force.

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

@@Coconut7403I never really get that need to crank down like that. I'd be worried about cracking the vise casting.

@janstaines5989 5 месяцев назад

@@RotarySMPthe Heuer vices (some with a similar movable rear jaw) have ball bearings in the spindle, but they are forged steel

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

@@janstaines5989Nice.

@wumfi 4 месяца назад

I've never seen your channel before, and I was enthralled by all 46+ minutes of this. What an amazing job you did. I shall be subscribing and watching more of your stuff.

@RotarySMP 4 месяца назад

Welcome aboard! I hope you enjoy my other videos as well.

@typxxilps 4 месяца назад

great job, great summary, well done and such a beautifull vice reborn ! Hats off or Hut ab ! as germans tend to say for impressive achievements !

@RotarySMP 4 месяца назад

Thank you for your kind feedback.

@LCalleja 5 месяцев назад

Always wondered why guess I’ll have to watch and find out

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

Hi Luke, once you find out, let me know :)

@LCalleja 5 месяцев назад

@@RotarySMP Watched the video but still don't know why:) Grate job on the rebuild. Now ill have to go and find myself a swivel base like that.

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

@@LCallejaIf we are lucky, somebody who knows will tell us. Check Kleineanzeigen for "schraubstock drehteller" There are also vertical lift devices for those vises. www.kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/hoehenverstellung-leinen-schraubstock-120mm/2693465827-84-19638

@joenicotera2991 5 месяцев назад

@@RotarySMP While you are at it, I heard that the aviation industry is looking for somebody with real skinny arms. More specifically the right man should fit between a vice swivel plate and vice body. What the job pays, they didn't say.

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

@@joenicotera2991I figured it unlikely that you would need to remove that split pin with the vise installed, but having worked on British A/C in the training school, it was not such an unreasonable task :)

@017renegade 4 месяца назад

Thanks for the video. Loved the commentary. The music was also perfect. Not too much, not too less. Great editing. Deserved the Like and the Sub!

@RotarySMP 4 месяца назад

Much appreciated!

@garysgarage101 2 месяца назад

That's an awesome vive. Wish I could find one locally. Great job on the restoration.

@RotarySMP 2 месяца назад

Thanks. These are a pretty common style in Germany and Austria. It is really solid. I am enjoying using it.

@robertwatsonbath 5 месяцев назад

A really cracking result in the end. I sometimes get the "negative work coefficient" fixing vintage electronics test gear, like you did here: you gain a vice, but the casualty list includes the heat treat oven, bandsaw gear box, a tin of paint and part of the floor.

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

Yep, you nailed that Robert. Project list ends up longer than I started...again.

@PixelatedPenfold 4 месяца назад

I have no interest in vises spefically or metal work in general but this fantastic restoration work kept me hooked all the way through.

@RotarySMP 4 месяца назад

Thanks for the kind feedback.

@juergenbubeck 5 месяцев назад

I bought a used vice which is apart from that it is with a "K&K" instead of "Leinen" inscription the very same vice. You did such a wonderful job with the restauration. I once bough a set of profiled aluminium angles for round stock, they attach to my original steel jaws with embedded magnets. I just don't have any idea where as that was a over a decade ago.

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

I also have some aluminium soft jaws, which will mostly be used (over the copper jaws).

@MattWeber 5 месяцев назад

Always fun finding a castle nut missing split pin. It means it was either never put in originally, or someone took it out and found they lacked the ability to remove the nut (like this example) and figured putting a new pin in was pointless.

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

Normally right Matt. In this case, Bastel stripped it when he got it, to check it had no cracks. Since he knew I was going to restore it, he just put it back together without the split piun.

@arjanvanraaij8440 5 месяцев назад

I Like the mix of machines used from flimsy diy store grinder to a claped out 60 year old bandsaw to a more then decent Maho cnc mill.

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

Thanks Arjan.

@pauldorman 5 месяцев назад

Another excellent instalment! Production quality is better than ever, as are the blunders! I have always appreciated how you treat your mistakes as merely another step in the process. No drama, no fuss, just get over it and move on. When I screw up I have to fight the urge to curl up in a corner for a few hours - though I suppose could be doing that off camera. 🤔 If you do, best keep it a secret, okay?

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

Hi Paul, the magic of non-linear editing software :)

@Platypi007 4 месяца назад

Very much enjoyed watching this restoration! I really enjoyed the stop motion assembly sequence.

@RotarySMP 4 месяца назад

Thanks for the kind feedback.

@jamescole1786 5 месяцев назад

3/5/24..Wow! Most enjoyable to watch & listen on this great restoration of your LINEN Bench Vice. Am 1st time viewer, just 'flipping' along YT when your channel poped up. Great! Impressed with your very well equiped shop & your excellent skills not only as technician but also as educator via your commentary...& sense of humor😂 Hope to catch another episode very soon. Stay safe & carry on! Best wishes fron New Orleans area 🇺🇸

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

Welcome James, thanks for your very kind feedback.

@philhermetic 5 месяцев назад

"I don't want to go overboard" Far too late for that!! What a superb result! You can mig with pure argon, most don't because of the cost. Argoshield 5 is argon with 5% CO2 and 2% Oxy, When I was doing some work for a hole in the wall garage, we migged with pure CO2 pub gas bottles, TBH the difference was not really noticable, and I have had dodgy argoshield bottles in the past that just didn't seem to weld right! I have a mate in Canada who bought a small bench lathe in the UK and had it shipped to me for boxing up and export. Wnen I got it I noticed immediately that the cross slide handwheel was anticlockwise for in and clockwise for out! Cannot remember the make but I warned him about it. The crash potential of that is enormous!! Luckily all my lathes work the same way! Really enjoyed watching that! I am back at work and released my latest YT video on Saturday,the first for nearly three months! Phil Phil Whitley on YT "My Week this Week"

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

Hi Phil, Thanks for the tips on shielding gas. I need to get my CO2 refilled and try it again. Someone in the past must have replaced the lead screw on my Clarkson, for a RH one, so it is clockwise out. Drives me nuts. Sooner or later I need to make a new one, and also put a scale on it.

@philhermetic 5 месяцев назад

@@RotarySMP I know that if I had a backwards feed screw that one day I would crash it!!

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

@@philhermeticYep. I can agree with that.

@mazchen 5 месяцев назад

Every time I see it, I admire the scraping job at tbe back of the Maho!

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

Yeah, they flaked that nicely in production.

@Luwoze 5 месяцев назад

Hi! new guy here. Firstly, quite a restoration job. Much love and attention went into this. And the vice came out really nice with the copper against the sage (green) colour. As for the bench, my suggestion is to add some cross-bracing on the sides and back. Sturdier structure. Once levelled and against a wall, screw it to the wall for retaining against any coupling effort - like when you were trying to remove the crown nut. Of course, adding a plywood deck would also help. Have a 3"' vice of that type which I'll eventually get to re-model as to slide along the front of the bench (it isn't swivel). I use brass jaws on all my workbench vices. I found copper is too soft and deforms easily; but holds great.

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

Welcome to my channel. my little steel welding bench is left free standing so I can move it out intothe room and work around it. The wooden bench is just a temporary one (we know what temporary means), as I have a nice thick slab of ply wood for the permanent bench lurking (ageing?) behind the Boley lathe. Just need to make up a frame for it. Future project for sure.

@davidjones8680 5 месяцев назад

A brand new subsciber here. I have a collection of vises, and have enjoyed watching you revive this one, you've done a great job. I do thing that a vise of that size is worthy of being fitted to an equally substantial bench though, and one which is secured to the wall and floor. I find it infuriating when a vise holds the job, but the whole bench starts moving when you start putting some heavy duty effort into trying undo some parts clamped in a vise. Many thanks David in the UK.

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

Welcome aboard . This bench was just temporary when I made it 5 years ago :) it’s an old door. No mass. I already have the ply slab for the new bench.

@davidhofman4341 5 месяцев назад

I bought a Polish made vise for $2 in the US. I was made in Poland and has movable rear jaw. It has a jib on one side of the jaw slide to take out slop. The jib adjuster was missing when I bought it so the jaw just fell off. Turned out to be a beautiful wise.

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

Sounds like you got a good deal on that. The Leinen has no gib, but mine is still nice and tight.

@chrismayer8990 5 месяцев назад

A very enjoyable video, great work with the vice! Many thanks for the work you put into the video! A good vice is very often underestimated and makes the job so much easier.

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

Thanks for your kind feedback Chris.

@chrisrushbrook1587 4 месяца назад

Excelent job mate, Im not sure I could give away that many hours of my life for a workshop vice but that says more about me than it says about you, a preheat of the casting and the correct electrodes plus peening may have helped with the welds Realy good Work ! I HAVE SEVERE MILL ENVY 😊

@RotarySMP 4 месяца назад

Thanks 👍. I appreciate the feedback

@J-J_K 5 месяцев назад

I always thought that workbench was missing something.. some Reseda stains was all that it needed! The vice looks great, good job.

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

Thanks :) I am glad I resisted the temptation to make that saw bench out of expensive maple. I know it would end up looking like this sooner or later.

@Th3WileyFox 4 месяца назад

First year in welding school is spark analysis chart ,by grinding an edge you can tell the metal, including cast iron and alloys

@RotarySMP 4 месяца назад

Yeah, the sad think is I know this, and also had plenty of clues that this is cast iron or ductile iron, but I still ignored the signs.

@yota4004 4 месяца назад

beautiful job. looks better than new.

@RotarySMP 4 месяца назад

Thanks. It is a nice tol.

@baronoflivonia.3512 4 месяца назад

Amusing that you show all mistakes, subscribed for that reason.

@RotarySMP 4 месяца назад

Welcome. Thanks for your feedback.

@Happy357mag 5 месяцев назад

That is a really cool and interesting looking vise. Having a strong vise in the shop makes working on things so much easier. I have a 5" Wilton bullet vise that I restored a couple of years ago. I still want to make soft jaws for it.

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

I now need a decent bench for it to sit on :)

@sobolanul96 5 месяцев назад

I like this design better. It is also easier to use. I had a 180mm one. You could use one finger to open/close it and the lever would always be in the same position. You kept your position while only the back part moved. It also helps when you cut stuff, they usually fall on the bench instead of your feet.

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

Good point about the parts not falling on the floor. I hadn't thought of that.

@danielbricker7204 5 месяцев назад

love the editing on the video. kept the pace flowing and showed the interesting bits

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

Glad you enjoyed it!

@shootgp 5 месяцев назад

From my understanding, the German vise is designed to keep your work further back and over the bench instead of your work piece extending out past the edge of the bench. I figure it distributes the load/force into the table differently...

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

Thanks for your feedback on that. I really was wondering.

@jzrgrmm 5 месяцев назад

Very nice resto, I enjoyed a lot the fact you showed the mishaps and mistakes, very nice to see what a real shop process is all about. That said, in my humble opinion you should put "a solid and anchored working bench" on your list 😅

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

Absolutely. I even have a nice slab of thick beech plywood lurking behind the Boley lathe as a top. This is just a temporary bench made from an old door. In it's fifth yea of temporary use :)

@jzrgrmm 5 месяцев назад

@@RotarySMPJust the fifth? Nice hahahah But if you bolt it to the wall, I would say it would be an 80% improve with almost no effort.

@jclark2752 5 месяцев назад

Had that have been mine, fixing the molding defect on the "E" would have brought me all kinds of long-suffered satisfaction! NicE Work! 🤓

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

Glad you enjoyed that. :)

@jasonmansfieldsr8645 4 месяца назад

That’s beautiful work, friend. Slainte!

@RotarySMP 4 месяца назад

Thanks lot for the kind feedback Jason.

@PackthatcameBack 5 месяцев назад

God, I want one of those vises so bad. I got to use one once and it's SO much nicer to use than a regular vise.

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

They are the standard shop vises over here. The are a ton of them in the classifieds in Austria and Germany.

@PackthatcameBack 5 месяцев назад

@@RotarySMP Have any good brands you might suggest? I've tried looking them up many times to very little success.

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

@@PackthatcameBack A newer version of this vise is available new: amzn.to/3T1xiPR Other similar brands are Boley and Gressel

@jheregreign 5 месяцев назад

Good videos, love the content. The series of mishaps had me thinking your shop is falling apart, found it very funny.

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

It really felt like that at times. I really need to sort out the oven and the band saw gearbox.

@joell439 5 месяцев назад

Nice vise. Hopefully the paint mishap will be a forever reminder of what fun it was to restore the vise. 😉

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

Thanks Joell. That... and using the vise :)

@MacMiskenn 5 месяцев назад

I like the commitment on the paint color. You could just skip the cleanup and go all in and paint the whole room in that :D

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

Working on it. One tile at a time :)

@Hilmi12 5 месяцев назад

A reverse drill bit is always the best way to remove screws. Surprisingly effective and minimal effort

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

It sure is nice when they release that easily. I was expecting to need an eze-out.

@stevensmart8868 5 месяцев назад

Reverse drill for me too!!!

@Hilmi12 5 месяцев назад

@RotarySMP I have not had good results with eze out and other clones. I found using a reverse drill while slowly stepping up in size always works every single time. Usually wastes less time than messing about with other methods

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

@@Hilmi12 I used Eze outs a lot on A/C when I was on the tools, but there we were normally dealing with threadbound/galled threads in corrosion resistant steels or titanium, where there was no chance of the LH turning drill budging them. With a snapped off screw in iron, you are right that the LH drill is normally easiest.

@Gottenhimfella 5 месяцев назад

I agree. I bought a set of LH drills second hand on eBay for that purpose, but when I don't have one the right size, I just grab a blunt RH drill and sharpen it backwards and that works at least as well, possibly better because it's a bit grabbier.

@matter9 18 дней назад

Excellent result!

@RotarySMP 18 дней назад

I am happpy with it, and look forward to using it.

@thisissoeasy 5 месяцев назад

That was a really interesting video! I totally enjoyed watching it! Thanks for sharing...

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

Thanks for your kind feedback.

@125spectrum 5 месяцев назад

Rally enjoyed your refurb. Great content. Paul, Scotland.

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

Thanks for your kind feedback Paul.

@nixxonnor 5 месяцев назад

The outcome was awesome. It seems to have been a great effort that paid off :)

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

Definitely! Thanks for your kind feedback.

@berto6063 5 месяцев назад

That stop motion animation was awesome! That must've taken forever to do!

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

Thanks, I enjoyed it. It goes faster than you think. It is a bit awkward having large castings, so things jump off the table into position, as I couldn't do intermediate positions.

@simon-ds1vp 4 месяца назад

I always thought that a vice was measured by how far the jaws opened ,, learn something every day

@RotarySMP 4 месяца назад

I never thought about that. Maybe different makers do it differently?

@RobertClolery 4 месяца назад

I always used a rubber mallet to seal the bags and a better glove. Thin plastic will not stop sharp stainless steel. Love Kevlar.

@RotarySMP 4 месяца назад

Great tip! Thanks Robert.

@ArdieStranger 5 месяцев назад

I'm from Germany and I can tell you, even in Germany the majority of vise jaws open to the front. I've never seen a backwards vise jaw and now I feel like I need one. I think this design is superior in special cases but not as a universal vise.

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

Danke, here in Austria it seems these Leinen vises are in every company workshop.

@ArdieStranger 5 месяцев назад

@@RotarySMP/videos Here in the north it's mainly unknown. But I just found out that this exactly vice is still manufactured. The vice is 500€, the base 265€ and it seems yours is original.

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

@@ArdieStrangerOh, thanks for the feedback on that.

@michaelprice9053 5 месяцев назад

Only problem i can see with this video is now you need to beef up that worktop. That vise demands it. Nice video editing. Neat presentation i look forward to kore content.

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

Thanks Michael, Absolutely. I even have a nice slab of thick beech plywood lurking behind the Boley lathe as a top. This is just a temporary bench made from an old door. In it's fifth yea of temporary use :)

@SeanBZA 5 месяцев назад

Can attest to those magnesium alloy cases dissolving. One into the ocean by me years ago, and when recovered the engine had rings of bolts held in place with locking wires, the casings having dissolved away from around them. My boss at the time was the base photographer, among his other tasks. He had a few albums, and these were in there.

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

Yeah, it is a very reactive metal. I'd love to see those photos.

@bgdavenport 5 месяцев назад

I wonder why no one ever adds a sacrificial, hardened steel wear plate to the anvil surfaces. The time you spent trying to remove the pits and scratches would have been better spent attaching a thickness of hardened 4140 steel with flat head screws. I like the idea so much, I'm going to do that with my homely vise! (note to self: drill the mounting holes in the plate BEFORE hardening!) Great video!

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

Another viewer also made that suggestion. Especially to drill and tap blind holes in from the bottom of the hardened anvil, and mount with counter sunk screws up from below. It would a good idea, and I wish I had thought of it.

@ProfSimonHolland 5 месяцев назад

nice vice, nice restore, sorry about the dead tools.

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

Thanks Simon. I need to do some maintenance there.

@thunderstruck1078 4 месяца назад

First time viewer here, from Croatia. Until you mentioned NZ I thought you were an Englishman expat living in Germany or somewhere else in Europe. As if you bought everything from Bauhaus. Wisent, Proxxon, Einhell... Even the vise itself, I occasionally see these excellent old Leinen vises on our local version of Craigslist. Loved the video. Subscribed!

@RotarySMP 4 месяца назад

Welcome. Yeah, I am Kiwi in Vienna. Those Leinen vise really are nice.

@robertfontaine3650 5 месяцев назад

Guys like you are making it harder and harder to find a big old vise for cheap. Good job.

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

My apologies Robert. Although I am surprised how common these ones are in Austrian and German classifieds, and how reasonably priced.

@romanvarcolac2238 5 месяцев назад

Hmm, I thought I commented already, but I guess it disappeared into the aether. Anyways, I will just retype what I wrote: Great restoration! Love the classic paint color on the part. As for case hardening, I use a pure graphite induction crucible placed inside a ceramic jacket crucible. These come in a set on Amazon and eBay meant for induction furnaces. I put charcoal and baking soda inside the crucible along with the part then cover with plaster. I usually run at 950C as well. Hopefully these tips can help. The crucible configuration is much more resilient and can be used multiple times, though only for relatively small parts.

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

Thanks Roman. I have some clay gaphite crucibles for casting, but those jaws are pretty long. I was not planning to use the uncontrolled heat of gas. Need to make a new oven.

@iteerrex8166 5 месяцев назад

I thought it was gona be a bit of cleaning and some paint, but it was a multi week major project lol. Congrats 👍

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

It sure was. I also expected less work :)

@theslimeylimey 4 месяца назад

Beautiful. Some white paint on the lettering would be a cherry on top.

@RotarySMP 4 месяца назад

I like the cast in logo as is, withouth paint to raise them. Just a personal taste thing.

@mazchen 5 месяцев назад

28:24 no worries, if you really want to see somebody go overboard on a vice, watch Abom's vice build 😅 Your endresult looks really nice. And hey, at least no broken endmill this time!

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

I have been watching his build as well. It is a beast of a vise.

@andreiiovitoiu6084 5 месяцев назад

The small 4' vise is a York. Very good vises also.

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

I guess it must be okay, as it has survived 20 years of abuse fro me :)

@mirandahotspring4019 4 месяца назад

Very nice, Herr Leinen would be pleased to see it!

@RotarySMP 4 месяца назад

Thanks Miranda.

@manr.9106 4 месяца назад

Hi, i’m watching since you started your channel, before the MAHO arrived. Awesome work with everything you are doing. Very cool subjects, very entertaining presented and the dry typical NZ humor mixed with sarcasm and irony that can be found in Austria, Bavaria and Baden-Württemberg . But one big question and i guess request i have! WHEN ARE YOU BUILDING A AUTOMATIC TOOLCHANGER FOR THE MAHO ?????????

@RotarySMP 4 месяца назад

Thanks for your kind feedback. I kind of doubt I will do an ATC on the Maho. I tend to do mostly one off type jobs, where the time savings of an ATC seem insignificant in the project .

@Paddington60 5 месяцев назад

Heard a similar thing about a helicopter that fell in Lyme Bay, a lot of that had vanished by the time it was recovered.

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

Magnesium and sea water. A temporary relationship. :)

@michaelpatt5214 5 месяцев назад

We in Germany have also Heuer-Front. They open the front jaw

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

Thanks Michael. Have you heard an explanation for the advantage of one design over the other?

@jestempies 5 месяцев назад

You could put a dot of glue or paint on the ends of the split pin to prevent injuries.

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

Or just bolt it under the vise :)

@steveggca 5 месяцев назад

My, that is a mountain of a vise! what a great find. apparently you can still buy the "junior" version of that vise for about $600 (including swivel). nice looking refurbishment too. As for the backward moving jaw , I suspect it has more to do with jaw stability that anything else. I've used your original style vise exacty one time and decided that I did not like them, the jaws would rotate apart at the slightest application of torque. Living in Canada, the most common vise is Record or similar style , jaw rotation is much better but still not perfect. I now want one!😁

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

Thanks Steve. I suspect you are right, and that the Leinen engineers did extensive design studies before choosing this style.

@CorporalWobbly 5 месяцев назад

I heard there is an RAF base in the UK that has a large white square painted on the ground for no apparent reason. Typical military fashion it gets repainted every year. Turns out years ago someone dropped a tin of paint and to make it look better they made it into a large square.

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

Having serve in the RNZAF, I believe that story :)

@1pcfred 5 месяцев назад

Square away those stains. It is the military way.

@Gottenhimfella 5 месяцев назад

I heard of a beloved milling machine which got an accidental hole drilled into the table in a random location. The person responsible tapped it with a bottoming tap, plugged it with a set screw, and stamped it "Oil"

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

@@GottenhimfellaYeah, I have heard that one as well :)

@grmblfzzzt 4 месяца назад

Nice work. I have the same vise rusting somewhere in a corner, thx for the restoration tutorial. And for answering the same question that came up to me, when I found it. :)

@RotarySMP 4 месяца назад

They are a nice vise. I didn't know the answer when I madde the video, but posted the best answer in the description.

@jesperwall839 5 месяцев назад

Turned out better than new! Well done! 👍😀

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

Not so sure about that. Leinen would not have tried welding it :/

@jesperwall839 5 месяцев назад

@@RotarySMP That’s not even noticeable if you don’t know about it 😀

@dirtdart81 5 месяцев назад

Lovely stop motion!

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

I'm glad you like it. It was not so easy with the big castings, but I was happy how it came out.

@lisakingscott7729 4 месяца назад

I live in Germany and have never seen this type of Vise. I'm not saying they don't exist for specialist purposes, but most vises sold in shops and DIY superstores are the conventional type we all know.

@RotarySMP 4 месяца назад

Thanks Lisa. Here in Austria, this style is the most common, seen in most trade schools and apprentice workshops.

@gubr 4 месяца назад

You just look at the wrong places. Modern front opening, forged and welded steel vises are obviously everywhere now because that is what is made and sold since it's cheaper (nowadays) and easier to make. That said, you can still buy back opening cast iron parallel vises new if you look for them online, though they are a dying "art". The classifieds are full of them, though and you can get a good 100 - 150mm jaw width one for a good price and if you grew up with the back opening kind it's really the thing to go for😃.

@GeoffTV2 5 месяцев назад

Lovely resto Mr SMP, thanks for the video. I've not seen you do the four way split screen before, looked good. The stop motion assembly was great too. Commiserations on your heat treat oven, hopefully you can reuse all the metalwork and electronics. I know you had trouble getting hold of fire bricks before, any change on that now? I have a suggestion for your whiteboard list: How about a new bench under that vice? I'm thinking of much thicker wood, much heavier construction. = Heather.

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

Hi Heather. Good spotting. I already have the thick ply for the bench top hiding behind the Boley. I just need to get organised and make some legs for it. I found a vender in Germany how has the aerated firebricks, so a new oven is certainly on the cards. I have been playing around a bit with multi pane split screens on other videos, as it is a good way to hide the missing audio from slo-mo clips :)

@1873Winchester 4 месяца назад

Tip: I stripped some mill parts years ago and sodium hydroxide works so much better when you heat the solution

@RotarySMP 4 месяца назад

I was doing this in the middle of winter, and going away for a few days. But yeah, heat and concentration would have helped a lot.

@ComeonmenID10T 4 месяца назад

i think the rough surface of the cast Iron looks much better on a Vise, than the somewhat smooth one you have now

@RotarySMP 4 месяца назад

Unfortunately, there were already some heavy grinding marks on the parting lines, so it wasn't even. Leinen also puttied the castings pretty heavily.

@jesperwall839 5 месяцев назад

First thing I saw in the video is a Saab 35 Draken! Couldn’t have started better! 👍😀

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

A classic machine. I used to teach a course with the gentleman who was CO of that Austrian Draken squadron earlier in his career.

@jesperwall839 5 месяцев назад

Yeah, Draken and Viggen are my all time favorite fighter jets. Probably by growing up with them in the sky’s 😃 I think Austria also used J29 Tunnan and J32 Lansen before the Draken. And now it seems like the Gripen will be the new fighter 👍😃

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

@@jesperwall839Yep there is a Tunnan parked in front of the fire department building at Vienna Airport.

@Elektronaut 5 месяцев назад

I really like these vises with the fixed front jaw and this one turned out great! Bummer about the welding spots but on the other hand that's an opportunity for trying TIG brazing should they ever break lose.

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

Hi Christian, and thanks again for the jaw blanks.

@liam3284 5 месяцев назад

I just thought this was how all vices worked.

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

I thought all had front opening jaws.

@vfxsoup 5 месяцев назад

Hello from Vancouver Canada. What a great find this channel is. Instant sub and will be letting others know about this TOT acorn.

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

Welcome and thanks for spreading the word.

@MikkoRantalainen 4 месяца назад

44:10 Super nice animation starting here!

@RotarySMP 4 месяца назад

Glad you liked it.

@supernovahm1178 4 месяца назад

I watched this to learn the answer to the title question.

@RotarySMP 4 месяца назад

I did't know the answer, but it was provided by a German viewer, and added to the video description.

@julias-shed 5 месяцев назад

Lucky break on the snapped screw 😀

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

Hi Julia. Yeah, sometimes you have to get lucky.

@chapiit08 5 месяцев назад

I inherited a 6" Italian vise of that same design which must be at least 80 years old, probably an early FZA. The design is perfect for holding wide objects but lacks versatility when holding long items in a vertical position and that's why I own several vises including a post leg vise. For anyone who is just a hobbist doing occasional light work I would recommend the more versatile front jaw opening type vise.

@RotarySMP 5 месяцев назад

That is a very good summary of the trade of between the two types.