WHY DO HARLEY FLYWHEELS TWIST? 

Absolutely

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this design is fine STOCK and will not twist under stock horsepower, The issue with runout comes when people modify their bikes to put BIG horsepower through it which will naturally cause problems to other stock components if not strengthened accordingly. This applies to almost every engine in existence.

@@Mike-jv8bv Then why did Harley have to loosen the allowable tolerance to avoid warranty claims? These cranks were built with subpar build quality which was aggravated by the penny-pinching elimination of the left side Timken bearing. Harley KNEW about this and ACTIVELY took measures to avoid responsibility.

I agree, rydingstyle is important​ people who want a lot more horsepower do that with a reason . If you will , everything kan be broken if you wish . Its like using steroids you get a lot more power but you can tear off a musckle / tendon becouse it cant handle the strenght@@Mike-jv8bv

@@Mike-jv8bv if you ride it like an old woman and never rev it or lug it ,yes the cranks wont twist or suffer from excessive run out, then make a post '' Ive done 80k on my Tin Can with zero problems'' ,I know a fellow with a stock Night Train he bought brand new ,lucky if its done 35 K has excessive runout already

@@jamessouthworth1699 ON the twin cams no doubt. The M8 corrected most of these issues now. Harley won't admit it but they hired the germans to engineer the milwaukee 8, that's why it's smooth.

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@1977jhall Thanks for watching! I appreciate the feedback & support. Good luck with you ventures

Budget. Not everyone can afford a welded crank. What normally happens is the customer wants to do a stage 2 cam kit to get a better sound & a bit power from their bike. When they discover just how much it improves the bike they then begin to start having fun with it, either by doing a few test n tune days at the strip or by doing skids. It's a progression for most of them. I always recommend welded cranks to guys to who tell me they are wanting to give it a hard time. If you wanna play, you have to pay. It's simple. Those who tell me they just want to wake it up a bit with a stage 2 cam kit & don't want to spend the extra money on a welded crank then start mucking around racing etc will almost always run into trouble. No 'cop outs here'. It's just like those 79 series Ute's. They go and buy a highly priced underpowered old tank and the moment you want to tow anything more than a loaded 6x4 box trailer you need to put a heavy duty clutch in it, exhaust, tune & snorkel just to get it to perform as it should by standards. Harley have an outstanding warranty unmatched by any other manufacturer I know. No one is stopping anyone from buying an Indian or going down that road with other manufacturers. People just want Harley's over other brands when it comes to big bore V Twin bikes. Harley offer an unmatched warranty when it comes to performance & backing the products. 2 years, unlimited kilometres & almost everything is covered when it comes to performance upgrades. If people are out of the warranty period & depending on the circumstances Harley offer a good will warranty process available to them if they qualify.

There was a good post /article by a fellow James Russell I think his name is, ''Before you buy a Harley Davidson Motorcycle'' ,if you can find it on net ,about all the issues with the Twin cams etc and in his opinion only the Sportsters [certain years were any good ] fit for purpose by HD standards might be, ''only ridden on weekends and not flogged'' ,judging from the bad engineering /cheap short cuts to save time and money ,its just mind boggling the bad engineering and crank issues etc in this day and age ,realistically, if want a bike to ride hard ,flog ,buy a jap bike ,the only HD I will own, is a late model EVO after you learn their inherent problems and solve them [no big deal really ] with them ,you cant look at a HD and think its like a Jap bike.

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Our guy uses new bearings on the rods when he does these cranks for us.

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@jackhorror6719 Much better than an OEM one yes!

@@MasterTechMiller so I shouldn’t have to worry about it twisting, even if I ride kinda hard without the plug being welded?

@@jackhorror6719 Yeah mate

@@oldphart-zc3jz Thanks for the input & feedback 👍

Rev matching while down shifting is fine. Doing that greatly reduces stresses on the driveline. If you downshift slowly & end up coasting along with the clutch pulled in & and the engine falling to idle speed & then downshift, letting the clutch out, resulting in a high amount of negative stress applied to the driveline, this will increase the risk of crankshaft runout

I would consider a big downshift to be any RPM above 3000rpm without rev matching. Coasting with the clutch pulled in & the engine at idle, then releasing the clutch without rev matching is also a bad idea

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maybe a large crank pin[splined] and higher ft/lb to press together

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Unfortunately it's the way it is. Capitalist economy.

Correct

I don’t do burn outs or wheelies etc

5thou is absolutely fine. Most bikes are between 3 and 6 straight out of the crate. It'll be fine if you don't give it a hard time.

@@MasterTechMiller thank for all the advice

​@@MasterTechMillerhaaa .003" Start saving up your money for a new mill. 😂

Why is 5 thou "fine"? You can't use gear drive with that much runout. It can't be good for anything, especially BRAND NEW. I'd tell the dealer to take it back

Yes, 12thou is a lot however, with the OEM Cam plate & oil pump it does get by. No way would I put one back together with 10thou though.

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As a guy who went from an EVO Sportster to a twin cam 88 I agree with everything you said. If I had known everything that I know now I would have gotten another Sportster.

Why so? The Iron 1200's are also press fit cranks, NOT bolted like the much older Sportsters.

2 guys in my club hit 60K on their 2022 M8 already. Bone stock.

Thanks for watching!! Glad your able to hey there & give it a go!

The stock compensator ramp is rubbish! I highly recommend the billet steel upgraded one from Cycle-Rama. The only time I suggest a dark horse man-o-war ramp is when a welded Flywheel & heavy duty aftermarket transmission is used.

@MasterTechMiller thank you sir. Always appreciated 🤙🏽

Great video explaining how it works, what increases wear and ways to increase strength for riding styles. Loved it thanks mate

Wow, something "stock" is rubbish? Say that isn't so? So....As a "Master" are you going to send your recommended "fix" or "redesign" to Harley-Davidson? Also, I what do you do when you notice + .010" runout on a customer's flywheel assembly? Grab another one or do you attempt to fix it yourself? (Can't wait to hear THIS response)

@kennethwise7108 I'm not the one who is big noting about having a far superior design that waiting on a patent that is much better than the Harley engineering team. You are what we call here in Australia a F#$k Witt. The video outlines what options there are.

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Yes the run out can change at any time no matter if it's a gear drive or chain drive. The recommended run out on gear drive cams is lower as the teeth have to mesh properly. If you happen to twist your crank (too much runout) then you may run into trouble with the teeth not meshing

@@MasterTechMiller Thanks for sharing the knowledge . Great channel.

Any runout north of .001" will shorten the lifespan of your lower end DRASTICALLY regardless of what "spec" or "acceptable tolerance" is in their garbage "book".

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Use a 4.5 inch stroke flywheel. S&S Flywheel will be the best bet for longevity

better to buy a jap bike if you want to flog it

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That doesn’t even make sense. Has nothing to do with oil changes. Listen to the video again. He explains it so well

Seasonal? I do every 4k miles .. or try to. Seems I’m going oil every 2 months

@@ashebarley77385 👍

I keep the right air pressure in the rear tire to reduce run.

@@terrellgarren7125 I sometimes makes spaghetti! What? That’s just as relevant as your comment 😎

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How are you testing this?

@@MasterTechMillerI didn’t. The local shop tested it. I have the OEM flywheel in my garage. Is there a simple test I can do? I set the arms upward and one doesn’t fall down immediately, but if I were to slightly tap it, it does fall down.

4-5/8" Stroke on the 135ci engines. The 114ci engines run a 4.5" stroke & the 107ci engines run a 4-3/8" stroke.

@@MasterTechMillerI have a 2019 sg with the 107 but I’m going to upgrade to a 129” big bore kit with 550 gear cam. What flywheel do you recommend or will be better to get the stock flywheel welded?

@scottluna4249 Either the S&S flywheel or the Welded OEM is fine. Just a budget thing is all it comes down to.

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Hey @@MasterTechMiller What symptoms are experienced if the crank does twist? Besides the runout being out of spec, of course. I ask because I have a wild vibration going through my bike atm, almost rendering it unridable. It happened when I screamed out of a corner and found false neutral. This made the engine rev high (didn’t hit the rev limit though) and an immediate vibration began. I thought it strange, so in order to dismiss the trany as the issue, I pulled in the clutch a gave it a big rev which increased the vibration! Yes I do burnouts… occasionally, but not from a standing start. Engine was built by Mark Hood Engineering - it’s hard to resist burnouts 😬 I don’t expect a diagnosis from you, just outline some effects a twisted crank has, please?

@dapezent I'm not sure a twisted crank would cause severe vibrations like you are describing as my mates bike had 42 thou of run out. He was rising the bike around & never experienced any noticeable vibrations out of the ordinary. In saying that though, I guess it is possible if the crank is extremely twisted, but keep in mind, 42thou is huge amount & we could actually watch the crank wobble when rotated. The balancer gear may have shifted slightly on you. There is a pressed on gear that drives the balancer ahaft. There is a pin on the crank that limits rotating but maybe it's fully shifted and causing the vibration? I've never seen this happen, and Harley claim that if it does happen there rider would not even know. It's more of safety feature to ensure the balance gear does not shift so far that it collides with the main journal. Having never experienced a shifted gear I can't give an accurate opinion on what it may feel like. I would also like the mention that crank cases & main bearings would more that likely be damaged severely if the crank shifted or twisted enough to cause such a violent vibration as you're describing.

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@@MasterTechMiller Hey pal, sorry for delay...yea not a prpblem, you have thourough material, that is extremely impotant and very intersting, and well explained! i have a 2005 15th anniv fatboy, silver. my indy, put a new S&S crank, fueling cam plate,lifters,a hf oil pump and new piston rings. No head work, i do have a TWIN CAM 95" cu motor, so the power was there from factory.I also had (from another tech) G Andrews 37 cams. ( more for mid/top end) due to this, my low speed, is a bitch. so im bounhcing the clutch alot, esp in (Maroon people )traffic. you got me thinking, with your awesome vid, maybe i put a little damange to the crank? I do hear a lot of banging when hot. sounds like an old 350 chevy though , its constant...so i think im ok. the gear drive, sure pronounced the sha-sha-sha sound. ooh well, now i just beat on it ...MODERATLY!! sorry for the length, but im on furlough..lol ps..my last run out was .005. close as sh...t! eh , yes I DO HAVE gear drive.

It will be absolutely fine

@@MasterTechMiller thanks for the reply 👌

I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. Rev matching down shifts are absolutely fine. That's the best way to do it. Not rev matching down shifts is what causes it

@@MasterTechMiller You have the patience of a saint 😊

It doesn't effect it at all. The flywheels are not balanced to start with