Why do humans like jazz? (evolution of music, entropy, and physics of neurons) 

Yum

To me harmonic dissonance invokes feelings. Music should be used to represent the world. And the world is not always harmonious. In the case of the death metal band Gorguts. Which I recommend particularly the Colored Sands album. The dissonance makes it feel surreal because of how extremely well organized it is. Like some sort of completely otherworldly musical architecture. Like a beautiful but hostile alien planet.

@@adrianaslund8605 gorguts is insane but Imperial Triumphant would be best for a person who likes jazz to get into the dissonant side of metal

@@miles6524 imperial triumphants drummer is an absolutely ridiculous virtuoso. I imagine if I wasn't a drummer I would hear his playing as being chaotic and wild but its really ridiculously micro organized and easly the most percise and intricate part of their music.

@@eriktippie978 Idk what yall are Talking about But i like clowncore Their albums “van” and “toilet” are unironically the best musical experiences i’ve had, right above listening to aerosmith’s sweet emotion for the first time peaking on my first joint. I find it Genius the way in which they shat on the piano, then played the most mindblowing sax solo ever Even the parallel-parking dickpicking bass solo, the driver made it into a beautiful performance, genuinely musically enjoyable, somehow. I also like dj beck & domi, it’s like multidimentional music, feels synesthesic Also Jacob collier(i think that’s his name, i heard he’s the clowncore drummer as well and somehow involved in KNOWER as well) If i know more jazz i can’t remember. Feels like i jumped through a window into jazz territory, But i like it Anyway, anyone could give out the Classic jazz songs, But what are *your* favorite performances/pieces? What solo do you think is the quintessential solo? Considering what i’ve said about myself, What would you yourself want to make me listen to? Something weird, exquisite, in any way you find interesting. Not even good or bad, But something undeniably brilliant in your judgment Just not something that requires basic knowledge of music theory to understand Why people that understand it like it i play the guitar But havent got a clue about the diference between major and minor Keys beyond the feeling it evokes. I know 1 pentatonic scale and the rest is muscle memory, improvisation, just vibes, really I want music to feel it, not to think about its musical logic anyway, jazz reccomendations plz?(anyone reading this too, please feel free to send whatever it is you like) And Sorry to bother, feel free to ignore me completely and go on with your conversation that i won’t even pretend to be interested in, just Why not bring it up right here where some jazz enthusiasts seem to be hanging out today, right?

I absolutely agree. Patterns and abstraction are central to the way we learn; that's why physicists like beautiful equations too

I mean, low entropy is literally about patterns. One factor though that'd be interesting to see is a more psychological or emotion perspective of it all. I've alwayd thought that we like music for the patterns, but also becaude they relate to stories, which can help in surviving in the hunter-gatherer time. Listening to stories, learning about the world remotely, often by imagination, and music aids the imagination a lot.

@@TachyBunker wouldn't that give the complete story!

​@netunof Not sad at all, different strokes for different folks. Some are into visual arts more than musical arts, others still are interested in other facets of life. It would be absurd if all were music connoisseurs, it's just one part of life.

@@TachyBunker stories are patterns we find in life

I completely agree

Smart fella.

@@yeah8598 fart smella

Kursgesagt is propaganda.

I was waiting for the V Sauce music to start

If it was well organized, wouldn't it be low in entropy?

@@diribigal I have to agree with you there. But hopefully the video is more informative than random noise!

@@diribigal prob exactly the joke mate

@@diribigal It contains high enough entropy to be informative, and low enough entropy to be well organized and not just random nonsense...

@@WarDimensionOfficial you mean vice versa right..low enough entropy to be informative etc. Right.

You know that your eyes do a Fourier transform as well (they have lenses)

I like the way that the noise floor is vital to understanding a signal. 🤯

That's an interesting point, I like that. Thanks for giving the video some thought!

that's a very common interpretation of art... that as catharsis. your interpretation reminds me of a mix of Adorno and Gasset

Thank you for typing that idea out :)

huh, i've never thought of abstract art (in the hands of rich ppl) in that way. contrast and catharsis.

​@@SamueleCastiglioni adorno HATED jazz

Apparently. So he says.

That's more true of some kinds of jazz than others

Yeah I have no idea where this claim is coming from

I don’t really understand that either. I suppose some people won’t go out of their way to listen to jazz but jazz isn’t that offensive to listen to, most people can see the appeal

@@MnemonicHeadTrip If we're going anecdotal anyway, I'd have to disagree. Most acquaintances I've heard comment on jazz, would rather it be turned off or changed.

Same lol

I'm glad you liked it!

He needs to collab with Kurtzgesaght now lol

@@physicsforthebirds U hear that! When's the collab! 😁

@@mihailmilev9909 Maybe someday... It would be a bird reunion

can't be a musician and a scientist. musicians have to be epistemologists in order to music. how the hell are you going to jazz music when your head is full of being right about things.

Planck. Music, true learning and discovery aren’t so different.

​@@atomictraveller bruh

@@sweezlesquee Upvote for recommending Zenon to jazz-heads, haha, nice. I agree, if you get off on complexity, there's a whole new world waiting for you.

@@atomictravellerPeople are multifaceted and can experience the world in ways that on the surface can seem contradicting but really show a depth of understanding. Point is I think a statement like, one cannot be both a musician and a scientist to be such a limiting and close minded statement. I can’t speak for others, but for myself I have the goal of sonifying specific quantum phenomena like quantum decoherence. I take T1 values (which on an IBM Quantum device, T1 refers to the relaxation time of going from a state like |1> to |0> in a matter of microseconds) and I map these microsecond values directly to Hertz. I don’t consider time and frequency being reciprocals for the mapping since the purpose of the sonification aims to be in a range that humans can easily hear without pain. i.e. it’s a direct mapping of microseconds to Hertz. The purpose of sonification is to have an audible way to “hear” quantum decoherence. Hence it being called “The Sound of Quantum Decoherence”, which is the museum exhibit I’m fleshing out. I do this research for a national laboratory when at its core it’s music related. While I’m a scientific research, I still play music! In fact, and this doesn’t “make” me a musician but I went to music school and am finishing a degree in oboe performance now. I love jazz, I learn standards, I jam with my friends, I arrange, I compose, I get called for gigs on my main instrument oboe but also trumpet, and I’ve been paid for music before and love music so I consider myself, a musician and a scientist. This was an excuse to research-dump as opposed to trauma-dump, hope there was something of value in there.

i agree jazzy stuff is fun

I think that is why I like jazz - it confounds my expectations. How much I like a piece probably has something to do with how much my expectations are confounded; too much and I'm just listening to noise, too little and it's just a bit boring. But I love country too - I love both genres equally. I couldn't think of a more predictable music (in the main) than country. I don't understand what's going on here. It's probably psychological. Jazz is the harsh encouragement of Dad and country is the warm hugs of Mum? Dunno 🤷‍♀️

I got here through dubstep by Teminite and Evilwave

hmm interesting try smoking a joint and see what that does for your appreciation of jazz.

my "brian"

@@perfeitamente_normal it's because of the brianstorm

I hope Brian is ok

No historical evidence exists to tell us exactly who sang the first song, or whistled the first tune, or made the first rhythmic sounds that resembled what we know today as music. But researchers do know it happened thousands of years ago. Humans used different noises to express fear or joy. These sounds, along with some of the sounds they heard from animals, such as birds' chirping, might have led them to make music. When people began to use tools, for instance to pound grains, they may have done so in a rhythm, or a regular pattern. Music emerged to help people coordinate their movements while they engaged in productive activities. [NIEonline; The Conversation] 2:31

Thanks! I'm always trying to do better!

Very true! I don't think that complexity is what makes it interesting though. I believe that anything unexpected is what makes it interesting, as something simple that ocassionally has something unexpected thrown in will still be interesting.

I still think perceived complexity (as separated from just complexity) is but a single dimension of the need for- and love of music. We need more than that sweet spot challenge. We need preferred aesthetics as well. Tied to past experiences, the bias of our life. Intensely simple and familiar music can still touch you beyond anything if it can worm itself into your aesthetic bias. You're not deciphering anything there. You may also have set up this limit of losing interest when something is "foreign" or "predictable" yourself. And it's actually not a real reflection of your capacity of enjoyment, but a barrier that prevents you from even allowing the music to be deciphered at all.

At least for me, it's the rhythm that really helps to contextualize and gel the harmonic elements together.

Have you tried listening to free improv? It doesn't always hit the mark, but when it does, it spontaneously emulates the best of avant-garde jazz and modern classical. One "just" needs a great deal of patience, attention and curiosity.

I have to do this with all music. Nothing impresses me on first listen.

Oh, now that's really interesting. I found those ratios by calculating the closest reasonable fractions to equal temperament, and I ignored the adjustments in tuning that we make for chords and other tuning systems. But that adds a new dimension to the topic!

@@physicsforthebirds @andsalomoni dont know about chinese music but in indian classical, the super strong harmonic third emanating from the drone, makes the lower variety (5/3?) of the sixth more sensible. I know it makes sense to have a sixth that is the perfect fifth of the major second (hence 3*3*3) as perhaps the major pentatonic was realised from the first five notes of the circle of fifths. But the drone in Indian classical music (and the harmonic third coming from the base string) throws a lot of the predicted mathematics out of the window. So much so that the major seventh is the harmonic third from the perfect fifth and hence again about 12 cents lower than the ET one. Listen to a fine-tuned Tanpura and you will automatically sing the 5/3 sixth. xx

@@sagaa4143 The A=27/16 is the major second to the fifth (9/8 to G). The universal pentatonic is built as C D E plus G A, with A forming a 9/8 second to G. The tanpura usually plays the tonic and the fifth, so if the tonic is a C, and you take the strongest harmonics coming from the tanpura's C and G, you get C E G B D. The A is not present in the tanpura's drone, and the strong ("dominant") G calls for an A=27/16; the E is quite weak (and "far" from A) in comparison. A=5/3 is quite dissonant to G, not so much an A=27/16 to E. Listen to any performance of raag Bhupali (Bhupali = the pentatonic scale C D E G A), and you'll hear that they sing and play A=27/16, beyond any doubt. The A=5/3 is present in the Bilaval scale, when you derive it from Kalyan (Lydian) scale. Kalyan (=Bhupali plus F# and B) has A=27/16, make Kalyan start from G, rename G as C, and you get Bilaval (the Major scale) with an A=5/3. The Western Major scale, which can be formed by superposition of the perfect (harmonic) triads C E G, F A C, G B D, has an A=5/3 too (due to the F A C triad). But the "natural" A is 27/16.

@@andsalomoni I personally hear the harmonic third way more strongly then the perfect fifth harmonic. One would think theoretically the perfect fifth should be louder in the sound of the tanpura but it is the harmonic third instead. Or at least that is how I hear it. Would be happy to send a recorded clip of my own tanpura. This is one instance where reality turns out different from the theoretical predictions. In fact, so much so, the harmonic third also makes the major seventh lower than the ET seventh. ☺️

@@sagaa4143 I built a swaramandal (harp) which swaras must be tuned by ear (knowing the correct procedure for each scale), and a "lute" able to play all the matematically calculated swaras by itself, just by placing the movable frets in the right pre-calculated slots. The two instruments match perfectly. Bhupali's (and Kalyan's) A is 27/16, Bilaval's A is 5/3, and so on for all the swaras of all the scales, up to Todi's Eb, Shri's Db and Ab, Marva's Db, E, F# and B, etc. and if you compare them to actual Indian recordings, you hear that the swaras are right. The mathematical calculations are right because they are derived from the universal pentatonic's (Bhupali) basic intervals that sound right to the ear, plus a few simple rules that allow you to build all the other scales starting from Bhupali's structure (even without making calculations at all). I tune the swaramandal this way, and all the swaras come out right when compared to actual Indian music. The true source is the ear that recognizes the harmonic nature of sound and the natural Bhupali, and the mathematics follows, without contradictions.

Thanks! that means a lot!

It's called a lateral lisp. When speaking the sides of the tongue raise higher than normal, causing air to escape out through the cheeks instead of directly out of your mouth. It creates a 'wet' sound that's relatively unmistakable.

ooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhh ok, i thought it was mic sensitivity cos i hear the same thing when i speak sometimes, thanks for the explanation though!

Ofcourse it is possible to have a mix of both which is what I hope to finally get myself to do at some point 😁😅

Actually all art is on this spectrum. All genres are some mix. But I want to make art that doesn't stay in one spot on the spectrum. That moves along, showcases all the possibilities, ect. If someone could do a little before me tho, just so I could hear, I wouldn't mind lol 😁

@@mihailmilev9909 Try some avant garde, like Mr.Bungle or Cardiacs

@@lucy-elizakezia1830 what's that?

A lot of abstract art is used for money laundering too.

Great question, I was actually going to put that in the video at one point! You're right, hair cells are logarithmically arranged so there are more for lower frequencies. We have about 3,500 inner hair cells, so the average spacing is about 5.7 Hz. Humans can perceive differences smaller than that, so my understanding is that we use other methods like beats and processing responses from multiple hair cells to figure it out.

It's intentional white noise😁

Thank you for mentioning dance! In many languages and traditions the word for the music is the same as the word for the dance that goes with it, eg, waltz, ngoma, salsa, forro, samba, flamenco, etc. and the one does not exist without the other.

Yes, however, back in the 1920's and 1930's jazz was dance music, so something akin to today's pop. Good jazz music carries this tradition. On the other hand it is interesting to point out that back then, there was basically jazz, pop (plays) and classical and that was basically it.

@@mrgabifour4 There was definitely a lot more music back then then just jazz, pop, and classical. There are countless folk music traditions like traditional appalachian music,, creole music, and even tejano music in the southwest. There is also the whole genre of religious music from church hymns, to spirituals and gospel music. People also sang working songs like with cowboy ballads, railroad and miners songs, which played into the folk tradition. There was a lot of cross pollination of these styles throughout the 20th century but all were distinct and listened too back then.

Yeah! Not everyone is accustomed to the simply put, chaos, that Jazz conveys. Even worse when you put it up with Jazz Fusion, which is my favourite genre. I remember presenting said genres to a couple of friends and their usual descriptions were along the lines of "Too Much Noise" and "Like someone trying to kill a cat inside a blender".

@@edmontoraptor yes, but music available to the masses it was really just Jazz, Blues, Classical. Pop/Westerners wasn't a genre by any means. It just meant popular songs/hits akin to how it's sometimes used today. Folk was there, but only in some areas & was mostly loccal.

@@googlenazicompany5935 Jazz is definitely popular music. It's just not as popular ratio wise as it once was. When it comes the streaming consumption of Jazz & Jazz fused subgenres (Salsa, Bossa Nova, Lofi Hiphop, Jazz Hiphop, Jazz Fusion) there is a big audience of lovers. Simply people consume it without knowing. Plus just cause it's not consumed to the level of related genres (Hiphop, Rhythm & Blues, Rock'N'Roll, Pop etc) doesn't mean people will find it hard to listen to. Actual the mass influence jazz has shows the opposite that many like the genre & subgenres under it. The world likes jazz, it just doesn't have music figures that does stuff to keep listeners/internet personal eyes on them like Rock & Hiphop does.

i like weed, introducing me

Same here. 👍🎹

So TLDR: i subbed xD

I need more avians in my feed lol

nigga

Wtf is a birb persona

Damn 13 days later and it's 25k

@@viktoriab4293 epic ‼️

Thank you! Interesting stuff like this is the reason I like physics, so I'm glad you got something from it