Why Does Gaijin Hate Britain? - War Thunder 

True, I've been playing the US 8.0 br and grinding with the T54e1 and it uses apds and it rarely gets the shell shattered message 😅

Ussr apds too All t45/55 ones or stock mbt ones are super horible and shater every f time

M41A1 either.....

@@AdmariHipperyeah america got hit with the nerf pretty bad at around 8.0-6.0 ish

​@@AdmariHipper Only use HEATFS with it, APDS will make you have a mental breakdown

Let me introduce you to italian players XD

@@colejones594 yes midget wheely boys are very skilful. Lemme introduce you to japan

Biggest proof is when the Harrier Gr.3 was proposed to go up to 10.0 but the Americans ones, that are the same, weren't. lol

@@GalaxyGmWT i mean the sraam the britans get are pretty nasty but still doesnt need to be 10.0

@@colejones594 the Harrier GR.3 has AIM 9Gs. Only the Harrier GR.1 has SRAAMs.

Gaijin *Looks at a French tank so bad France literally bought them to be used as target practice* also Gaijin: "Lets make it's under-gunned prototype face Sherman and it's Finished prototype, with the same armor and engine, FIGHT BR 5'3 AS A TD, *DISPITE IT BEING TALLER THEN EVERY OTHER TD AND BEING ONE OF THE FEW TD'S THAT CAN'T PEN HEAVY TANK FROUNTAL PLATE AT THAT BR* " Yes it pisses me off that a medium tank with a BR 3'7 body and a BR 4'7 gun (considering how big of a target it is, I think that's fair) got uptiered to 5'3 and reclassified to a TD. I swear, considering how often you get spotted and sniped with this thing, by literally everything at it's current BR, you'd swear some one at Gaijin hates this tank in particular

​@@MazzaAzi yeah, it's literally just a panther but worse in every regard. Appalling damage, longer reload, worse armor, terrible ammunition placement, same abhorrent reverse speed, and so much more. If it at least had the lol-pen capabilities of the IS-2, it'd be bearable, but it's just too inconsistent.

Are y'all complaining about the arl 44? Can't be, that thing is good and it being a TD is a positive not a negative, since it costs SP. It's gun isn't 4.7 material, it's good for it's br and the spall is great. Only problem with the tank is it's turret, it's weak.

@@ushikiii The fact they nerfed the depression because of the assisted loader, without modelling the assisted loader, is still peak Gaijin :(

Irl britten and france are both super underfunded in the militery dept

Someone’s mad that more realism is being added. Go play world of tanks clown

That shit is in the game for not even 3 months. It made it worse but only a tiny bit.

@@AlphaHorstshell shattering is a very, very old mechanic. It’s just disabled on most gaijin has a special hate for sub 100 mm apds.

@@AlphaHorst it's there for years, i recall it happening when ''hull break'' was still in ground battles...

@@interpl6089 they literally announced it when they updated APDS three or so months ago. Back when they also put APDS on the new formula. Prior it was essentially just the engine fucking up. But now it is intentional shattering with its own animation.

That's because we gave a bit of weapons to Russia before they invaded Ukraine (shhh dont tell), like laser technologies, missiles etc But now they hate us too so we got no top tier tanks in the last french update 😓

Gaijin on their way to explain to me why they completely gutted the AMX-13 HOT after the latest update when it was already a horrible 8.0 vehicle beforehand aswell.

france? Suffer? They got buffs specifically for them and have a bunch of meta vehicles. Name a single meta british vehicle

Japan has it worse. A lot of missing vehicles that gaining purposefully doesn't put in and a Type 10 that couldn't be further from the real one. Absolutely gimped mobility, wrong turret armour and 1 second extra reload.

@@ActuallyNotIlmatar at least you get APHE

The Cromwell V also should be able to pen the front of Tigers, considering thats what they were designed to do... but gaijin is gonna gaijin.

The british early air to air missles (Firestreak, Red Top) are by far the most historicly inacurate missles in the game. The Red Top esspecially. It should have the range between an AIM 9G and the russian R-23T. However the Red Top doesn`t have anywhere near that range and I know why: the missle`s acceleration is far to low and short. in the game the missle reaches about Mach 1.5 which is just a joke to the mentioned Mach 3.2-3.5 in british military reports. The seaker should be able to lock afterburning aircraft in all aspects within a range of about 2-3 km. The seaker, although partialy side aspect does also not achieve this. The Firestreak is also very underpowerd. Although significantly worse than the Red Top which was even thought of being armed on the F4 Phantoms, instead of the Aim-9`s jsut shows how powerfull they where. The firestreak`s main problem is also the rocket-motors performance. It should be able to be fired at ranges suitable for the Aim-9E/K/J/P versions. The most accurate is I think the israely Shafrir-2 range and performance. By now I wasn`t able to do research on the Fireflash which is why I am not able to give any statements for this missle`s performance.

they messed with the comets round because it was fair against tigers and panthers lol it was 5.7 no amour no spawl and then also having no pen XDDDDDDDDDDDD

Would love a Churchill VII with a 6pdr and APDS (They got retrofitted to fight Tigers)

Oof

It really trains you to aim for ammo and gunners. But apds is so unreliable that sometimes you just get shafted

as someone who plays britain and plays against germans, americans, and russians, i have often found myself wondering "how the fuck did i manage to survive that? im a british tank"

@choppership465 with American and Russian tanks, I sometimes find myself thinking the same thing. Against my fellow German mains, it comes down to the fact that many of the newer German mains don't understand you actually have to aim in this game XD.

From the aircraft point of view, the wellington can hardly even climb and may as well not have guns, also i find some fighters dont have the fire rate to be able to hit targets easily, you can strafe across someone and completely miss

@@Trinity43421 fair enough the new german players have absolute no sense of situational awareness

Gaijin also gimps the m61 shell because there’s so many variants of it, probably just a mistake but apparently they’re using an early war version of m61

its historicaly accurate iirc, because irl the APHE wasn't as good as pure AP. The issue is that AP/APBC/APDS is underperforming.

Yeah, the Brits did a study and found that APHE was only slightly better than Solid Shot, creating a marginally wider cone of shrapnel, while reducing the shell's armor piercing capabilities and overall reliability. Gaijin just makes APHE RIDICULOUSLY more effective than it actually is.

@@no-legjohnny3691 exactly. British werent stupid. There was a good reason for reliance on AP

The reason there is no filler in the m61 round is that the early variants of the shot would break or explode on contact with German armour. So the British in a good spot of wisdom removed the fuse and powder filled the cavity as to not upset the balance and launched that till a more reliable shell came out. They also found out that the German 75mm (for the short 75) shell fit into the cartridge of the american 75mm so britsh troops would capture german ammo take the shell out stuff it in the 75mm cartridges from America and fired that. After the modified version with the German shell was sent back to America the m61 round was fixed and used by uk troops. Gajin just in stupidity ran with the hulled out filler shells despite Britain stopping that after the new rounds came in.

The worst thing is they have so many that could be added but havent been,. Same with that south african missile aa that suddenly got forgotten by the snail when they got added in

@@mlc36tva14Indeed, not even prototypes either, but fully mass produced vehicles like the Scorpion, Saladin, Scimitar, Desert Warrior, etc. And the prototypes/limited production vehicles available are also nice, Verdi 2 Warrior, Scorpion Kastet (Jordanian), Vickers mk.11 long range patrol vehicle, etc. And those are just the Light tanks/IFVs…

@@mlc36tva14I think they’re still planning on adding a SA missile AA since the model for one of them is completely finished and was part of the ending segment of the teaser for the update when SA was introduced.

Yup, scorpion, Scimitar, warrior TES(H), 25mm stabilised variant warrior

Saying that we have 3 Ratel Versions, 2 ATGM Carriers, The Warrior, ADATS and some AA you can load with AP rounds and its actually decent.

like the german hunter is a british plane with american missles its comical

The Swiss hunter makes me twitch uncontrollably

And it has countermeasures… ._.

Ok

It has guided missiles as well which we need

It's a funny little shitmobile in custom matches.

For me was the radar upgrade in the F.3 lol

@@GalaxyGmWT USA getting cool new vehicles and we get a car and a radar

@@roachisthegoat and I bet it was only because the Italian ADV came. Because in the first dev server the British had a better one than before but the Italian had the best possible lol

the PGM.2000 for the GR.1 Tornado was the thing for me. that thing slaps and its finally something useful that isnt a buggy GBU that only destroys russian ERA rather than the tanks themselves.

TOG II premium when?

to be honest i don't want them to add anymore in fear it will be locked behind a pay wall.

@@thetreelander7378 fair enough. Though if they add the TOG, it won't be free

@@tanknerd7193 and i cry every day thinking about it.

Because the devs know where the money is. And it isn't the UK, France, Italy or Japan. Its Americans, Russians and wehraboos.

🇬🇧🤝🇬🇧

I've been playing for years, never paid a bloody penny and only now am I reaching past 8.0 in ground and air. Keep calm and carry on mentality

Almost have the tornado. Almost have the challenger 2. We keep on going. We suffer together. We suffer in silence

@@creature3628 if necessary for years, if necessary alone.

I'm some what with you there too. I only play Britain because I'm British. Everyone says the British in WT are shit, and I just pin that to the fact that they just dislike us in the real world. Though I can say that I see the actual reasoning in air combat, constantly going up against BF109s and similar aircraft while still flying a bloody gladiator.

Yes you always go back to britain for the extra torture

Same lol

Hear you on this. Been bouncing back and forth between Britain and Germany. Just got to the 6.7 range in Britain though and it may be the final straw 😂

@@cjaydustie1867 lmao, I have the whole tree (air/ground*/heli) and I remember spanking tigers when the cent/caernavon were 6.7... good days... Today, at least for me, the 10.3/8.3/7.7/3.7 lineups are very solid.

You should try Japan, their low tier tanks are, special...

It’s depressing how gaijin treat the tech tree tbh. I posted on the forums about how Britain is SEVERELY lacking in light vehicles and IFVs and vehicles overall tbh. Absolutely nothing. Gaijin won’t do shit to the tech tree unless it gets them more money. I’m sick and tired of it.

This, I have been deprived of Canadian vehicles for too long :(

@@henryd.4802 as well, why is the Ram tank in the American tree :(

They should just change it to "the Commonwealth". Britain can still form the backbone, but make it the official place for original Commonwealth vehicles

😅

Also the Stormer HVM should be 9.7 and not 10.3 because it's a direct hit and not fire and forget.

What I hate about the Stormer HVM is that they fix it one update, then break it in the next. It can't ever just work properly for any extended period of time.

Same with the strela, they broke everything

I don't need HESH to be god-tier, but if a Pershing would die when a 165mm HESH round lands on it's roof, that would be nice. All I'm asking is that we get actual HE ammo instead of the plush toys we've been firing.

Stormer HVM has 18 km radar range and 4 Mach speed of missile and has a better lock

pretty much said everything right. Except the comet. I wouldn't compare the comet to the firefly. I'd compare it to an m18 (spoiler alert it often outspeeds the m18 don't ask me how). But the comparison between the panther is the big one yeah

@@lonurad1259 The comet has more horsepower so that may be why. The M18 is leagues better though. I compared it to the Firefly since I don't think speed is really that so much benefit that it makes it a higher BR. You also don't have a .50 to deal with pesky light tanks and the firefly is slower but the round can do more frontally and if you angle you can get lucky bounces. Even if you out speed a M18, the comet simply can't capitalize on the position as well as the M18 can. The M18 is just better. Sure the round doesn't have as much pen but if you get side shots it doesn't matter. The APHE is far more likely to one shot or at least do considerable damage. With the reverse and turret traverse being so fast its very easy to 1v2 enemies trying to flank if you play it right. The reload on the hellcat is much faster as well. APDS is on the other hand is far less damaging, and prone to not killing anything important at random. Sure you can use the shot mk.8 but its still solid shot with only a few mm more of pen than the hellcat with none of the filler. With the reverse on the comet if you get gaijined or simply make a bad shot, there's no backing into cover. Tanks can easily flank you as well with the very poor turret traverse.

Ok the Bosverak is stupid and it should go back to 4.7 or even 4.3. The Skink is fine, it is infact my second favourite SPAA after the Ostwind II. Planes will not pen you unless they suicide and even then they usually fail because anything below 60mm/40 at 30° pen can not pen you anywhere but on the engine. And APDS is a joke on every tank. I am up to 7.0 and even on the 20pounder its is dealing no damage. As for other BRs that mKe no sense. Churchil VII at 4.3 with a gun useless agaisnt even 4.0 mediums. And armour which can be penned by every 50mm gun in the game from any range from the front. G6. Slightly faster HE shell then other artys with a little bit more filler (which is irrelevant as there is literally no difference in damage between 1kg and 10kg of HE filler in the code). Sits at 7.0 with no reverse speed, no fully rotating turret and between 16 and 22s reload while thinks like the 2S3M sit at 6.3 with APHE,HEAT as well as the proxy and normal HE of the G6. It is faster in reverse, has a fully rotating turret and can not be 30 or 50caled. Oh and also reload is between 14 and 20s. Then there are the obvious mistakes in tank performance. Like the FV4005 being limited to its turret arc despite it being 100% the version II of the tank with a fully rotating turret because it lacks the autoloader of the version I. The FV4202 which used only parts of the Cent or of the later Chief, yet it has a random transmission and gearbox so it is stuck at 5km/h reverse instead of the 13 it should do. The Comet, Cromwell and Cent are also missing their horizontal stab which most tanks of the era actually had. The Churchil Mk IV NA75 has mkIII armour (89 instead of 102mm) and in general there is an argument that even the mkIII had 102mm of armour when it landed in NA as it was one of the upgrades made during production. Then there is the vehicle choice bullshit. Russia has right now more than 10 vehicles maybe even as many as 30 which never made it past the partial testing stage (Hull, turret, gun, but never the combination) in their tech tree but the Cent Mk II which was the second most produced variant is an event vehicle with fantasy equipment? As Gajin writes "our MK II centurion is the evolution between the MK I and Mk III" which is rubbish. The MKII started production before ethernet MKI. The MK I is simply the "what we can do reliably now until we get what we want" version. But Gajin decided to make a fake tank with a full stab instead of one of the many great prototypes of the Cent (one with 102mm of frontal armour which was supposed to be the Mk II but never came into production due to costs) So whenever gajin cries "give sources for adjustments" just tell them to give theirs for the bullshit they come up with.

bro the comet has amazing turret armor, with volumetric especially causing shells to get absorbed by optics, view ports and random crevices in the turret face. It's kinda like how the tiger and panther have magical volumetric protection on their turrets.

@@BrezhnevStan yeah it does. Except it has nerfed AP/APDS shells that do absolutely nothing anymore

US makes them money but they still abuse us. Robbing us of most of the cool tanks that could have been tech tree.

As an Italian, if Gajin treats UK like a second thought, then Italy is like the third or fourth thought... Like that homework you do in the last 10 minutes on the bus 😂😢

@@francescoboselli6033 At least Italian vehicles are still pleasant to play I love the 6.3 lineup and the 7.7 lineup British tanks are hit or miss thanks to solid shots and APDS that does jack shit

​@@francescoboselli6033italy is deff my fave minor nation. My current addiction is the Fiat with the recoilless rifle.

@@francescoboselli6033on the bus? No it’s in the hall seconds before it’s due.

Did you verify it yourself?

@@viktoriyaserebryakov2755 why bother? everyone knows the first thing you read on the internet is correct

Hunter F1 was only the top dog for 1 patch. The following patch saw the release of the MiG17, which beat the F1 in basically ever scenario

@@p3rran i think he means the f6 variant with its 20g missiles that had a range of about 800m when it was slower than every other top tier aircraft and there were no flares, but due to everyone trying to dog fight at that point it was free lunch for the f6 when if they just went in a straight line the hunter was helpless edit: (i love the f6 it currently is my most used aircraft but when bvr was added as well as more advanced jets it has fallen a lot in preformance and even its once op killed missile is easy to dodge in comparison to the russian 30g missiles at the same br)

the thing britain has going is its insane penetration (its peak in midgame) and stupidly low br 2 plane stabilizers, at 6.3 the charioteer mk7 has ~400mm of kinetic ammo penetration and over 1400 velocity, its a point and click, you dont got damage but you can pen everyone everywhere and just line up the internals

@@notnurfcreanga that is the only consolation

@@7stormy334 although the air tree is quite good, swift f7, harrier gr3, sea harrier, spitifres

If you look hard enough you can find us anywhere in history after the 1700s.

I don't think they're as bad as you think. I'm excluding higher tiers because I don't play it, though I can admit on paper they don't look very good. Other than that the Brits have a high skill curve and are rewarding if you're good at the game. Think that's a bit of a compounding issue because it chases away the newer players to go play Russia or Germany leaving the more experienced players to play Britain. Thus artificially reducing the statistical performance of Russian and German vehicles while increase the on paper performance of the British vehicles. It's a fault in how Gaijin balances the vehicles in a game they don't actually understand or play.

@@viktoriyaserebryakov2755 that’s totally fair. I was stubborn and still played Britain before realizing that there was a difference between solid shot and APHE. I spaded almost every vehicle up to the second of the Challenger 2s, and I agree that Britain can be very good at lower tiers. 6.7 used to be my favorite tier to play ground realistic because I would have my top end spitfires along with the 20 pdr guns, but they changed that lineup if I’m correct. I think my issue lies in top tier where the Challengers and Phantoms can’t keep up with their American, German, and Russian counterparts (I stopped playing before F16 came out).

@@nate_scrub Well I'm glad you've got a head on shoulders, instead of choosing to believe that Gaijin is mad the UK sent missiles to Ukraine. As for the top tier mobility issue, I think that's a map and gameplay issue. Challenger is a good tank, and that mobility factor is not nearly as important in real life. The way War Thunder makes you play however makes that a necessity. So I really don't know how that could be balanced without essentially solving how top tier plays in general, which is another glaring issue in of itself that we know is never going to be fixed. Current meta just favours laser gun go kart gameplay and I don't think that's going to change.

it could be twice the size if they just added more nritish content at the same rate as the top 3. thats without resorting to other nations content ( im all for commonwealth vehicles)

@@solreaver83 at this point I'd bargain for anything they could add. Need Britain to become great britain

@@otatoshio4315 Britain could have 2 entire branches added if they got the same attention as other top trees. A light tank branch and a derp gun branch of refitted tanks firing howitzers. No one seems to have noticed that somehow Britain still doesn't have a single tank in the game using the 25pdr..... lol

It is a major nation in real life, major nation in WW1 and WW2, post war, and before WW1. Not saying UK is perfect because it's not, but contribution was massive.

its almost always a problem of the way war thunder works and not the vehicles being bad irl, the cas problem is the same, the game is too fast paced and built in a way aa players find it very hard to counter cas, japan/italy have no armor because their terrains are alot more rocky and they require to be agile, but in war thunder maps are standardized, russian tanks are just good at the types of maps and the gameplay itself found in war thunder

In what world is France a major nation in a game primarily about ww2

@@Yokemeister The game is not anymore primarily about WW2, and for cold war and modern Era, France is superior to Germany.

@@mathieu722 exactly, well mostly

Think you missed Japan and Italy. Both had more impact than France..

@@MrGrim2u1987 Clearly not in cold war and modern time. Also if all you know for France in WW2 is the usual propaganda "it did absolutly nothing", you should open more book and not use only hollywood movies.

I think they'd lowered the repair cost recently, I could finally play the Centurions without bankrupting myself, and they're quite good tbh.

Welcome to the minor nations tech trees

adjust your lead, sparks are a sign that your client is registering a hit but the server isnt. when i learnt this i adjusted my lead just a bit when i see sparks and now i never spark. Hispano ave now been my favourite most reliable air cannon in the game for 10 years or so.

@@solreaver83 If that were the problem why would the OP have these issues with Hispanos but not the AM/M2 which are just about identical except for which ammo belts they get? I also have this happen with Hispanos, you connect get the hit message, sometimes a 'crit' but you just need to keep hitting them to down the plane, but I switch to America and THOSE cannons absolutely take planes apart.

The swiss hunter in the german tech tree does it for me

its been like 300 years

yea the brits suffering with a big lack of light vehicles in the mid and top tier (if you can even call it top tier) also there some aa's that can perfectly fill gaps and gaijin is just ignoring them...

The Desert Warrior (Warrior with a Bradley's gun) wouldn't even be that much better. But it's better than the unstablised 80 RPM we currently have, only 0.3 below the BMP-2.

@@tedparkinson2033 I want the Warrior 2, would be like a british STRF 9040. Stormer 30 and Ajax would also be welcome.

@@GalaxyGmWT oh absolutely! The Boxer would also be awesome.

@@tedparkinson2033 does Britain have a variant that would be useful in-game? The Australian one would be just awesome! But I can see Gaijin adding it to Germany lol

That’s mainly because the Tow missiles got nerfed. I can’t recall but I’m pretty sure I was experiencing nerfed missiles while using Russia.

The chieftains are one of my favorites and I agree, its a tough life playing them.

i wish theyd just give the chieftains the upgrade package for the mk3 and 5

A lot of the NATO vehicles are gimped, abrams, challengers, Merkava, etc, wether it’s an incorrect armor value or incorrect armor designs such as on the abrams turret ring or chobam that should be 50mm on later abrams

@@LewisB3217This is often the argument but it’s forgotten that the challenger 2 for example is: Too slow Literally 65% weakspot Has an underperforming gun Reloads FAR too slow Has around a third of the turret traverse speed that it should Literally has gaps in the armour (some points on the turret are 28mm. You can .50 cal it). All NATO tanks are gimped but Jesus fucking christ the challenger is fucked

@@sturmgeschutze3070 yeah that’s rough, I really hope gaijin fixes all them but I doubt it

I'm right there with you. I thought it would be better after I got the top APFSDS in the Challeys, but nope! Challeys still play pixel hunt the weak point while T-80s are just a point and click... Then the 2Es whole thing supposedly being its more mobile. Sure more mobile that the OTHER Challeys but its still slow AF next to all the other MBTs.

I've got 4 challey 2 tanks and they don't get any more fun. I'd rather play the one at least it somewhat competes.

@@commandoepsilon4664It can’t even pass the normal challenger’s top speed half the time despite having more horsepower even when stock!

@@sturmgeschutze3070 I haven't even bought it, I don't need to pay over a million SL for another tank that is only fast enough to get steam rolled by the brick wall of enemy tanks that crushed all my one spawn and done teammates, or that is so slow it can't cap anything and almost never sees an enemy as they all left after my teammates killed them once. On top of that it's at the end of the tree so all its upgrades cost way more RP so its spading grind is even longer than the others.

@@commandoepsilon4664 The black night is the only competent challenger as the iron fist system can make up for the armour’s weak points when sniping…

the biggus dickus german tank destroyer does what a tank destroyer is meant to do, its one tank out of maybe 50 others

Fireflash 🗣️🔥

That’d buff NATO too much, not possible comrade - gaijin probably

fr why am i running into f86 sabres (1949) in my meteor (1943) that would be like if i was in a spitfire 1a going against me 262s.

the thing is though that the Harrier GR 7 that was meta for like a month beforehand does a better job at being bomb CAS than the tornado which is just sad.

Could be worse. In the supersonic update, while the US and USSR got actual supersonic jets (F-100/Mig-19), Britain got the fucking Javelin lmao

@@GalaxyGmWT I still remember when I was facing the T-2 with lead indicator against my Javelin constantly, Gaijin's thought process is non-existent.

@@GalaxyGmWT Javelin was hilarious meme though, good 'ol times, just the 3 (most of the time only 2) vehicles fighting eachother: MiG-19 vs F-100 and Javelin...

I think you just started playing this game with that thought.

britian was suffering long before current events

@@Soggy-Soy-Toy its the reason why I stopped playing it and spending money on it

Probably not, but who knows, gaijin can’t portray Russia in a bad light, against the law from Putler

I would argue giving the M16 SPAA to France. They historically had and used them. They had several hundred that remained in service long after ww2. It's copy/paste, so it shouldn't be hard to do. And while France may already have spaa at the same B.R, those 4 .50 cals are versatile enough to put in almost any lineup

France could get the FCM 12T S232, its built on a prototype amx-13 chassis and has 4x mg151's in an enclosed turret

Meanwhile isreal and Japan who haven't had an aa over br 9.3 added:

Thought people used the cope that they were Hungarian 😂

jag also has no flares

Yeah, thing is just about helpless against those fighters. It’s good in ground RB though

Conversely if Gaijin finally understood that the blasting charge in APCBC rounds does not make them APHE rounds and adjusted the mechanics accordingly, things would be more balanced. There's a reason why blasting charges disappeared from AP tank rounds after WWII (apart from the Soviets) and it was because most of the time they failed to fuse properly and turned the round into a straight solid shot and even when they did detonate, they made no significant difference to the post-pen damage. Ironically the British army knew all this before WWII after carrying out extensive testing, hence no blasting charges in British rounds, even M61 shells had them removed. If Gaijin are going to implement BS mechanics like 'shell-shatter' then they need to have a 'failed to fuse' mechanic for APCBC rounds at the very least.