Why don’t American Pilots do Spin training?

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First time Spinning melts an instrument rated commercial pilot’s mind :)
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In this episode, Jason shoots some great B-Roll of what was honestly not planned to be an episode. I took Chris (an American instrument rated commercial pilot) for his first exposure to Spins (and initial #Aerobatics ).
In Canada, our initial training covers spins (I actually did spins in a glider before going solo).
We captured some great stuff and decided to share from Chris’ point of view.
Jason does Digital Marketing for longtime supporters of the channel, Infinite Flight. He uses Infinite Flight and ForeFlight to brief trips like this one, especially when there will be a high workload into a new place. On this trip, we visited Sporty’s Pilot Shop to meet up with Jon Ostrower and Thomas and Dwight Nield of Yawman Flight. Yawman is coming to market this year with their gamepad specifically designed for flight simulators, the Arrow. The Yawman crew demoed the Arrow using Infinite Flight, X-Plane, and MSFS2020. Future episodes will cover the IFR #Flying to get there, and show more of the Yawman Arrow.
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FLIGHT CHOPS DISCLAIMER:
I am a "weekend warrior" private pilot, I fly for fun with no intentions of going commercial. I have had my PPL for over 15 years, but still consider each flight a learning experience - I generally take detailed notes after each flight to remind myself what went well or what I could do to improve.... Having GoPro cameras to record flights like this is invaluable. I find these self analysis videos very helpful in my constant quest to improve, and am happy to share. Feedback is invited; however, please keep it positive.
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Опубликовано:

2 мар 2023

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Комментарии : 667

@Drivr555 Год назад

My first spin was accidental, at 9 hours, on my second solo flight. I was practicing slow flight and next thing I knew I was looking at the ground. I was pulling back hard on the yoke (a C172) with nothing happening. A couple of months before, I had read a book entitled Stick and Rudder (1944) by Wolfgang Langewiesche that repeatedly hammered in the spin recovery sequence (PARE=Power off. Ailerons neutral. Opposite Rudder, Elevator forward). After 3 rotations, I remember thinking to myself, "I'm in a spin!" I pulled the power off and was literally standing on opposite rudder. I was still pulling back with all my might on the yoke when the plane stopped rotating. I was still in a stall and it took everything I had to overcome my pulling back on the controls. Once I did, I came out of the stall and I leveled off. It was only then I realized that I still had full flaps in. I cleaned up the plane and flew back to the airport. I told the FBO operator what had happened and he thought that I might have had a cross control accident. Personally, I think I didn't "step on the ball" and allowed the stall/spin to occur. As I continued my training, I found myself afraid to even pull back on the controls to rotate on takeoff. I kept pestering my instructor to go up and do actual spin training. He kept putting me off (I don't think he liked doing spins). I finally said, "If I don't go up and do this (spins), I'm not going to be able to continue training. I have to do this." Finally, he agreed and we went up to do spins. As we entered the spin (intentionally, this time), I said, "this looks familiar' and went through the recovery sequence. We did this a few more times until I was actually comfortable with spins. Since then, I've been an advocate for spin training. Any time I hear of a friend starting flight training, I give them a copy of "Stick and Rudder." In fact, a month ago the son of one of my friends announced that he was starting flight training. I mailed him a copy of Stick and Rudder.

@Jake-mg8rk Год назад

Cap

@kristianh.pedersen2 Год назад

Hi. I had a somewhat similar exprrience. Im am a gliderpilot and also a former motorplanepilot. I have owened a Cessna 150 Arobat, in which I did a lot of spins, and I have done a lot of spins i various gliders, even competing in aerobatic competitions. All in all I guess I have done at least 200 spin-recoveries. In 2020, while flying as an glider-instructor, the student accidently put the glider in a spin at about 600 feet AGL. I took over the plane and initated the recovery procedure, but even with the aforementioned experience, it took a tremenduos amount of willpower to push the stick forward. All your instincts, every fiber in your body, tells you to pull the stick back to avoid the ground speeding towards you. I very much doubt that I would have been able to recover if I had'nt had practical experience before. I admire your ability to apply your theoretical knowledge in a tense situation. I don't think many pilots would be able to do that, especially at low altitudes. I am appalled that spin-recovery-training is not mandatory for PPL- and Ultralight- pilots, and I am very worried that it seems to be taken out of the glider-training-programme as well.

@kukajin9560 Год назад

what instructor throws a student in to solos at 9 hours

@FUTUREpilot267 Год назад

@@kukajin9560 especially without showing them what an uncoordinated power on stall looks like, unbelievable!

@Maynardtkrebs Год назад

Good that you’d read the book. Pulling back is seldom the right response. 172 not a primo spin trainer.

@Guysm1l3y Год назад

Why? Because the FAA saw that more people were dying in spin training accidents than in spins "in the wild". So they shifted from mandatory spin training to focusing on spin avoidance.

@FlightChops Год назад

Should I change this title to be more the value of exposure to them or something?

@daricksta08 Год назад

@@FlightChops Maybe the value from a qualified upset recovery program. Guy referenced more people dying years ago, which was mainly CFIs who weren't current and proficient in spins going up with a student. I'd gladly do spin training with someone who does it all the time, but they aren't common here in the US.

@Guysm1l3y Год назад

@@FlightChops Maybe. The topic can tend to bring out some "holier than thou" subtext from Canadians. I think acro training is valuable (not just spins but also unusual attitude recovery) but the reasons for ending mandatory spin training in the US was based on concrete numbers.

@gambitaviation Год назад

@@daricksta08 We’re here if you need us at KARR! We cover normal, flat, accelerated spins, as well as the entire inverted spin series in an Extra 330LX and a Pitts! 😁

@auburnaviator6167 Год назад

Military still teaches spin recovery before we allow students to go to the area solo. (at least that was the case when I was still instructing 10 years ago, USAF. I know the curriculum has changed a lot since I retired)

@davido1953 Год назад

I've always had a phobia about falling so wasn't a fan of stalls, but after doing spins I felt like King Kong. It really improves your confidence knowing that it is something you have seen and gotten out of. After a while it's no big deal, at least in a single engine training a/c.

@Lavthefox Год назад

Im so grateful to my instructor who taught me spins in a Blanik Glider. I remember thermalling up to about 5500, and my instructor was like "Ok, so we discussed how to do these a few times, but im gonna do one first. Follow along." I was so confident, so ready... and then next thing I know im on a flying tilta-hurl spinning towards the ground. Turns out, you can say the F word all you want, it doesnt stop the rotation XD!!! After that he asked if I was ok.. I took a deep breath, and said "ok, yep, yep yepyepyepyepey, my turn, lets get it over with." --> One of the best skills I ever learned! really helps with slow flight stall recognition, and as a glider pilot its a great skill to know since we generally perform very tight, very slow air-speed turns when thermaling.

@FlightChops Год назад

Yes - my first spin was in a glider as well! :)

@foesfly3047 Год назад

The paint scheme and graphics on your plane look so good. Seems to me, adding so many sponsor and brand style logos would be aesthetically risky but you (your designer) did an outstanding job with proportions and each location.

@FlightChops Год назад

Really appreciate that feedback! I worked closely with Sam at Evoke Aviation when we made that design - it was a delicate balance to create an "Honourary Yellow Bird" look that wasn't claiming to be an actual warbird, but would fit in with our museum fleet... while ALSO showcasing the sponsors and partners that made the project possible :). The museum is the "lead sponsor" - the project wouldn't have happened with out the awesome partnership I have with them - so their logo got the wings and tail, and I think it went a long way toward the look I was going for, so it was a win.

@tonyverhulst9948 Год назад

This was good. In a lot of spin training, the instructor pulls the nose way up and stomps on the rudder near the stall. This is not the spin that kills you. At altitude, I simulate getting slow on base because you're distracted by something on the runway. You get to the extended center line and you don't want to bank too steep because you're close to the ground so you 'help' the turn along by adding bottom rudder and.... over she goes. Then I say to the student "if we'd been at 400 feet, we be dead by now". Use your trim so you're less likely to change speed if you get distracted and always stay coordinated. I instruct with glider club and since we spend a lot of time close to stall speed while thermalling, inadvertent spins are not unknown😀. The FARs don't require it but we spin everybody.

@jimallen8186 Год назад

Always stay coordinated? What about slipping?

@jimallen8186 Год назад

@Fidd88 and front slipping? Especially as this thread started with a glider reference.

@RGD2k Год назад

Also an advocate. It is astonishing to me that it isn't the second thing you are shown and learn about, on your first training flight. I learnt in a glider, and it was. First was a stall (of course) so you know what to 'feel' for just before it happens, and it was done from very near level flight, just edging a little too low on the airspeed. Spins were right after, and it was shown how if you forget to increase your airspeed on a turn, you can easily get to where the inside wing only suddenly stalls. I made that mistake once - turning just a little too tight at 35 knots (I should have increased speed to 40) whilst holding quite a good rise rate in a thermal. And the moment I felt the unexpected-but-recognised movement begin with my stomach, I instantly realized my mistake, and was immediately on opposite full rudder, and stick central and full forward before I could even think. It ended up recoving before a full rotation - perhaps 180 - 270 degrees. I was embarrassed, but the instructer said it was a good recovery. I would not have been able to react 'on gut instinct' so fast if not for the spin training. Not only was each 'manuever' : stall / spin 'demonstrated', but I was made to practise both initiating, and recovering until comfortable with it. It was a Purchacz glider. On a spin in that thing, the motion wasn't so much side-then-down - but rather, violently up-and-over, and then down after you're almost upside down, in about the time it takes to gasp (which you will). Something to do with stall on either wing causing the mid-tailplane to also stall at the same time, so you're tipping backwards just enough that the cockpit being so far forward of COG means you go up at first. We were also flying Blanik's, and we did the same training there too - to be familar with the difference. (Much less violent spins and stalls, but it also recovered slower). IMHO every pilot should to the same during familiarization, to the extent that is safe in the aircraft. MUCH safer to 'get a feel' for when things are ABOUT to go wrong, at a nice high, safe, altitude, then to have to deal with it happening unexpectedly at low altitude. I thought this was just 'common sense' for type familiarization. What I recall being most memorable about that whole course though, was going up with the tug plane. The pilot was an ex-RAAF fighter pilot, so once we'd confirmed our tow had gotten off the cable, he just flipped the nose around and (it seemed) directly down at the end of the runway and went full throttle most of the way there. I thought it was a spin, it was so fast. Pretty much pulled out right into final and landed for the next tow. The impression that he gave was more boredom and impatience than anything else. Fun times. But yeah. It doesn't take very much training to make it muscle memory. The more-extreme-than-a-roller-coaster nature of both manueuvers focusses your attention nicely. The trick is to get through all the training on first exposure (all in the first serious training flight), so you don't have time to get to fear it (or dread it before the next flight) before you've already learnt how to handle it. It goes from terrifying to just embarrassing once you know you can handle it. So far as it being safe for the aircraft to do: Well, then all pilots should learn to fly in an aircraft where it is safe, and never in an aircraft in which it is not. You should not be learning to fly in an aircraft for which such a manuever is an emergency in and of itself - such is just not a safe 'first flyer'.

@jamesordwayultralightpilot Год назад

@@jimallen8186 you're not slipping if your already slow. Slips are for slowing down. When you get slow you should transition to coordinated flight until your done turning and on final. Then you'll be focused on slipping if you're coming down too fast.

@jimallen8186 Год назад

@@jamesordwayultralightpilot Wrong. Forward slips are for losing potential energy while maintaining kinetic energy while already at idle or not wanting to pull power so as to leave engines spooled up. Slips are not for slowing down; they’ll add drag for such but that is added stress along the tail of the aircraft. You don’t want to slip if fast due to this added stress. You generally don’t slip in the turn (don’t want to goof and accidentally skid) though such slipping turns can be done. The forward slip’s purpose is to come down fast so don’t understand your statement about focus and coming down too fast. As for side slips, they’re to control crosswinds while having fuselage alignment with the runway. You could go with the crab and kick out though you risk side loads on your gear.

@garymcbrearty5845 Год назад

I did spin recovery training on my 4th flight. I was lucky in that my introduction to flying was in an old De Havilland Chipmunk with current or ex RAF pilots. I was in the Air Cadets in the 80's so when we were taught to fly it was more a lesson in how to handle an aircraft & it's systems, going straight through introductive 60degree turns into doing stalls and recoveries by the end of 1st flight. Aerobatics of increasing difficulties on the next 2, then the spins, all the time gaining instrument reading experience with the required eyes outside the cockpit workload. The best experience a young teenager could do legally is been thrown about in the sky with a parachute strapped to your backside. Then before my 17th birthday I did my glider solo, a 5 day intense tuition course that was significantly more classroom focused than fun but just as enjoyable, especially the bit where I was viewing an English Electric Lightning passing R-L below us

@gavincraigie7904 Год назад

I was fortunate to get to fly the RAF's EFT whilst on the UAS at Leuchars. Filmed my final flight back in 2012 and thoroughly agree it's a fantastic experience! We had Typhoons in the circuit with us, but certainly would've been interesting with the EE Lightnings. Video below includes a few spins. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-czy6_FLiHYg.html

@sahhull Год назад

I did my first spin at 4 hours ... My civvy instructor just said... I think you are ready took us to 5,000ft backed off the throttle and kicked the rudder. I spent the next few hours practicing.

@sahhull Год назад

@@gavincraigie7904 My uncle was a QRA English Electric Lightning pilot. He then converted to the Jaguar before retiring.

@garymcbrearty5845 Год назад

@@sahhull the Jaaagggg was my 1st underrated jet love, no ever gives it enough praise. The idea to take a front line attack aircraft off airfields near battle central and then operate on & off of grass fields was genius. Watching the landing articulate or rough ground was like no other plane. Brought all weather navigation tech forward a generation jump & future upgrades worked well in the airframe. The Lightning was then and remains now 1 hell of a plane, shame it was a grey streak across a lower laying grey mist cloud base, the whole event being a few seconds long!

@MrGaryweirich Год назад

When I was going for my private pilots, I had about 12 hours. I was solo over the practice area of Broward County, out of North Perry. There was an area below that was the Sportatorium and there was a drag strip out there. I was practicing turning and departure stalls. I had read about spins and how to recover and decided I would never spin an aircraft so pass on and read about something else. Just as I was attempting a turning and departure stall, there was a race ready to begin of two rail dragsters. I was climbing to the right while I was watching the race to the left. I crossed controlled the plane into a spin. With 12 hours, this was a major emergency. Well, I pulled back on the power and stopped the rotation. Pulled out of the spin, leveled off, and uncontrollably shook for quite a while I flew back to North Perry Airport, picked up my instructor Jerry Shephard, and told him we were going up and spin the aircraft until I felt comfortable with it. That was many years ago but thank you Shephard Aviation for all you did for me.

@mooney-m18x Год назад

This is exactly the reason I was told it was mandatory training prior to obtaining a PPL in Canada. A quick and decisive recovery saves lives after encountering an unintentional spin. For my CPL training in Canada, I was taught to recover on a heading (based on my average rotation recovery time). I am surprised that instructors in other countries imply that "it's good to see what the aircraft can do". For safey as a passenger, I would rather know if the pilot is able to recover from an unusual attitude that many pilots enter unitentionally. My Father's PPL flight test featured a seven turn spin while the examiner watched from the ground!

@terryfulwider1296 Год назад

I'll echo what others have said and say that I'm really impressed with how attentive you were to your passenger. You explained everything really well can constantly asked for his feedback. I know you probably aren't headed down this career path, but you'd make a good instructor! Your love of flying and aerobatics is evident in the way you approach presenting new things to a passenger. It was also neat to see how totally comfortable and in control you were of the airplane and maneuvers. You've come a long way!

@FlightChops Год назад

Appreciated Terry!

@RiccBallard Год назад

I had a retired navy pilot as an instructor, he ask me I want to experience a spin. I like an idiot said "sure lets do it". An half an hour later I finial could think clearly again! Didn't regret it though. Good experience in my opinion, it lets you know what you are in for.

@Bobm-kz5gp Год назад

Well most spins occur in the base to final turn, when spin recovery isn’t going to happen, the spin training just shows you what the aircraft attitude looks like before you die.

@stubryant9145 Год назад

@@Bobm-kz5gp No, it makes us more aware of why we need to stay on top of our energy management and control coordination- and what that flight regime of being on the edge looks and feels like.

@richardgreen6857 Год назад

Just finished my CPL Steve, had to do a bunch spins to get through that. I can recall taking people out in the 150 I rented years ago to do spins as a Private Pilot. They shouldn’t be scary, they should be understood and managed!

@Calvin-xp4qp Год назад

Back in the day, spin recovery was mandatory for every student pilot. The P factor at full throttle really ripped that 152 around. The satisfaction of losing less and less altitude with every attempt was very satisfying. Rudder is your friend. Thank you, Sawyer Aviation!

@daffidavit Год назад

Agree 100%. I couldn't have said it better.

@jgbaugh Год назад

Spins are not fearsome, they are fun. Just don’t want to get into one turning base to final.

@charleswesley9907 Год назад

I did a snap roll in my KR2 by accident when applying power too fast in a mush. It then spun and I over controlled . I released the stick and executed a spin recovery. I always was 5000 ' or above . I lost 2000 ft . 5 turns in a 150 trying to recover . Altitude is your friend as long a you dont exceed V speeds .

@boggstucson5415 Год назад

I did spin training for my private ticket in a 172 in the 80’s. I thought it was very valuable in taming the fear and showing how benign recovery would be at altitude. (And how it is so fatal close to the ground!). I would highly endorse it as part of primary flight training…

@bobr8766 Год назад

Received my SEL in 1985. My instructor was an advocate of “flying the airplane out of any unusual attitudes”. So, I took his loop, spin, roll add on training after my SEL check ride. Best training for new pilot. It gave me confidence and knowing what would happen if you are not paying attention…Great vid!

@FlyMIfYouGotM Год назад

I understand not wanting a CFI who is not current in spins to do spin training but personally, I would get a CFI who IS current in spin recovery to do the training. In the late 70's, before I soloed, my CFI asked how I felt about doing spins and spin recovery. I told him I wanted to do this before I soloed. His comment was, "You are aware the FAA no longer requires it". I told him that maybe the FAA didn't require it but I did! Upon hearing that, this guy was like a kid in a candy store. It was, great, let's go! For the next hour+ all we did was spins and spin recovery. It was great training and I would do it again with a well qualified CFI. Was I comfortable with it? YES! Especially since my CFI was a current F4 pilot in the KNG so I knew he was not only current but very proficient with this aspect of flight training. With me, what really hit home with this training is how fast you can loose 900' altitude in a spin! You really don't have time to think about what to do if you screw up and get into a spin. You need to immediately recognize it to the point that reaction and recovery is an automatic response.

@andrewnewman6451 Год назад

UK G.A doesn't generally do spin training for the same reason they don't in the states, however for UK Glider pilots spin training is mandatory, as the chances of spinning whilst in a tight thermal are high! My glider flying has served me well in my SEP flying, I highly recommend gliding training for all G.A pilots 👍

@skriuttutt Год назад

And you have had a lot of spin training fatalities...

@SpiralDiving Год назад

@@skriuttutt I don't think so. Spin training accident stats?

@tonyverhulst9948 Год назад

@@skriuttutt You have to understand the environment. When I spin students, it's at 3000 AGL or higher after an aero tow. In the UK, you get off the winch at 1200 feet and the instructor says "OK, let's do some spins".

@skriuttutt Год назад

@@tonyverhulst9948 Well, you even had to do spin training at 1000ft to ”raise awareness of the stress of low level spins”… I also do spin training with students at 3000 or higher. But I seriously doubt the value of that training. Spin avoidance training however is crucial…

@sahhull Год назад

When I was learning to fly (In the UK).. My instructor at 4 hours said... I think your ready... Took us to 5000ft backed off the throttle and kicked the rudder into a spin. I spent the next 2 hours practicing. Not bad... 3 hour lesson for the price of 1 hour. Having seen a fair few videos.. PPL(H) training is also lacking in the USA.

@petergregorypottery5476 Год назад

I was really impressed by how you instructed Chris, building from simple manoeuvrers that introduced G progressively to more challenging ones where ground and sky swapped places! By the time the spin was demonstrated, Chris will have been far more comfortable with unfamiliar situations and able to understand and get more benefit from the spin. A really excellent and helpful lesson, and very enjoyable to watch too!

@FlightChops Год назад

I really appreciate this feedback Peter! It is a fine line as I am not an aerobatic instructor, but I love sharing this and try to give as much context as I can so they can enjoy the experience and hopefully get inspired to follow up with with an instructor

@dlwilliams76 Год назад

Steve, get yourself some ginger gum, made by Seaband. You'll find it where they sell motion sickness aids at the drugstore. Ginger will settle a motion induced nauseated stomach incredibly fast. It's amazing how quickly it takes the edge off after one too many maneuvers. It literally takes seconds once they swallow the ginger flavor in the gum. Bring it with you when taking others on the RV roller coaster ride. You'll still want to knock it off when they say "uncle", but it'll make the ride back to the airport much less anxious for everyone. Give it a try. Nice video by the way. I always try to talk people into upset training, with very poor follow through most times.

@FlightChops Год назад

Great insights here Dan - Yeah - I've had a few long rides back to the airport with a person turning multiple shades of grey and green as we enter the pattern - I'll look for that gum - thanks!

@mikearakelian6368 Год назад

Have to try that...ginger

@jessedennerlein9746 Год назад

Steve, Great episode. I got my license at Sporty's a few years ago. It was great seeing the home field. I know that practice area well, the Ohio River and the Lake there are very familiar. I know what you mean about being able to do an episode on just dealing with the traffic there. I thought nothing of there being 5 planes in the pattern. We'd often have to wait for 2 or 3 planes to land before we could take off. I remember one time I was doing pattern work and a helicopter crossed at midfield at 500 feet...below me, That was wild. You got very used to dealing, safely, with lots of traffic. My favorite story, though, is from then was my instructor and I were waiting for a plane to clear Runway 4 so we could take it and do a take off. The plane decided to use the whole runway which meant some extra waiting but we understood. Then the plane got on the radio and said "Clermont County Airport Traffic Advisory, there is a cat on the runway!" There was a slight pause and then someone got on frequency and said "Meow!" We just busted up laughing!

@burfwing Год назад

Nice job Steve... informative and fun to watch.

@edgarsouthwold7358 Год назад

I’ve only been in a single engine plane once even though I’ve been an avid flight sim geek for years. Your calm demeanor and clear explanations instill so much confidence! I think I would feel less terrified flying with you! Love the channel and all you do for aviation.

@FlightChops Год назад

👊

@destroyerdragon2002 Год назад

I got to fly a cesna once. My pasture who owned a farm had a plane... to be fair felt more comfortable in control than with him.. He had a nerve thing where his head would bob up and down... so the plane would also bob... only once he moved the flight controls over to me did the plane fly level.. I was pretty young always wanted to be a pilot after that but.. life gets in the way.

@aviationgroupie1433 Год назад

Loving how you teach Steve. Calm, cool and pacing for the person who is with you. Also loved the little Canadianism when for the roll, you told him to "give-er" 😄Great video and thanks for sharing.

@quietlyworking 9 месяцев назад

Spectacular video! 😍Few things as beautiful as an open curious mind filled to overflowing. Thank you for bringing this one to us.🙏

@timjohnson1578 Месяц назад

This is a great breakdown of some tendencies we may feel or experience. Thanks for sharing. loved seeing those spins.

@jonathancharnes7984 Год назад

As acting chief flight instructor of a part 141 school I must give stage checks to monitor student progress. Almost all of them were afraid to put the plane in a full stall. They were saying their instructors had them recover as soon as the stall warning went off. This told me their instructors were afraid to do full stalls with the students. When it came time to give the instructors their standardization flight checks I had each of them do a two turn spin. This was a first for all of them. One instructor told me that when he got his spin endorsement, all they really did was do a full stall and let the wing drop a bit.! Unfortunately the regs do not stipulate how much of a spin must be performed for a spin endorsement. I contacted the FAA hotline explaining that there appears to fraud in the issuance of spin endorsements and that they should better define what is considered a spin. That was several months ago and I have heard nothing from them. When the FAA refuses to do its job, people pay in blood. Like ink the case of t he 737 Max

@FlightChops Год назад

This is concerning. Thanks for the insights. Please report back if you get any traction on this

@MrCaneast Год назад

In 1978 I began taking flying lessons in a new Cessna 150 Aerobat, by an instructor who ate and breathed aviation. He was a ex bush pilot. He taught us ground school and went up with for flight instruction. On my first time up, he taught me how to recognize a spin and spiral. He explained that pilots may get into them at times and wants me to know what to do so not to panic and how to get out of one. The first time I went through one it was like "now I know what it's like to die in a plane crash". He remained very calm through out it while explaining turning the throttle back to idle and pulling back on the yoke until the stall. It was like the plane was standing on its tail. Then he kicking left rudder so the plane would dive to the left. This brought us into the nose dive while the earth was spinning round in front of us. He calmly said next to push right rudder until we were out of the spin, then pulling back on the yoke until we level out. Then when the plane reached it's airspeed, we would add throttle and continue flying. The very second time I was up I was in the left seat and he guided me through a spin. We did that at the beginning each time I went up. It became second nature to me and I became accustomed to the feel of the plane in other instruction. At that time when we went for our finals, we had to perform the full spin and spiral without losing a minimum number of feet in order to obtain our private pilots license. I think it keeps less experienced pilots from panicking and wanting to pull back on the yoke to prevent the fall.

@tangodeltawhiskey6825 Год назад

I've seen it before on your videos, but man, that RV can STOL baby!! The take off in this instance really had me exclaiming out loud. Nice job Steve and Chris

@kiwiflyer2190 Год назад

I remember doing spin training in a 152 aerobat for my instructors rating back in the 90s. I still remember initially struggling to determine the direction of the spin, as it's very disorienting. The turn indicator is definitely worth its weight in gold.

@kevinwells4986 Год назад

Thanks for your channel first of all. Im an avid fan. At WSMR (White Sands Missile Range) we had a small flying club. Our chief instructor was also a stunt pilot instructor, and whereas most flight schools did not encourage doing power on and power off stalls and spins, Wade did insist on this instruction. It didn't take long to learn actually, after of course the first few times where you over correct and spin in the opposite direction... and I was thankful for the instruction. Of course we always practiced at a safe altitude. After mastering spin recovery everything else was pretty much a piece of cake, in regards to flying. Flying C-150's and Piper Cubs didn't really give you many options, but Wade did wing overs and managed to pull perhaps a couple of G's at times. He was a great instructor.

@TimeWasted8675309 Год назад

Interesting, I had no idea this was not taught. Took flight training in Canada in the 80's and spin training was absolutely taught on both the 150's and 152's. Training was focused on two main situations, first to quickly recognize a spin starting (when a wing drops during stall), and then recovery from spins of greater than 270 degrees rotation. Safe if done properly, but a lot of stress on the rudder/elevator/tail if done incorrectly.

@suprPHREAK Год назад

I’m working on my ppl in a 172 and it is still taught. Valuable, and fun!

@ADVJason Год назад

I had no idea they don't do spins etc here... I grew up going with my dad flying and can remember doing training for aerobatics. I guess I just thought it was normal to practice that stuff. He was very good about learning what could save his life and make himself a safer pilot so I guess he just must have decided to take the time to learn. It was a lot of fun too. This was back in the 80s. Very cool you were here local. I live maybe 35-40 minutes from Clermont Airport and I hope to take my lessons there one of these days. Lifelong dream for me...

@rileyk99 Год назад

We do spin training for our flight instructor training. Basically it used to be required but more people were dying in training than actual spins, so we now teach stall awareness and recovery.

@jamieb8046 Год назад

Great video...reminds me of my private pilot training - spins were scary in the beginning but later on they were fun to do.

@ryanverplank8212 Год назад

When I was a student, my CFI asked if I wanted to do a spin and I really didn't want to... We did anyway and it was super valuable. Later did aerobics in a Super Decathlon. All valuable experience.

@genkukov Год назад

Always fun watching your aerobatics in the RV-14. Definitely glad to see you sharing the experience of not flying straight and level! Definitely have had me look at the RV-14 as a future aircraft for sharing acro with friends. Definitely would be fun to have you at KHWY sometime to see the aerobatic community at that field.

@1dgram Год назад

I'm an American pilot who did spin training as part of my private but that's because I requested it and found an instructor who was very proficient in that area

@yvad541 Год назад

I did the same, my instructor was an old navy fighter pilot, and was more than happy to turn my lunch.

@frankish5314 Год назад

Same here.. Plus after I finished building my RV7 I went to aerobatic school. This made me a much better stick and rudder pilot!

@randymichel459 Год назад

I did it in a J-3. It was a lot of fun and a valuable skill gained.

@mikemorgulis9657 Год назад

Great episode and great to have Chris take controls after a maneuver to get his head and gut back in the game. As a glider pilot and instructor we bank steeply at lower speeds in thermals, getting close to spin territory, so we train and practise spin recognition and avoidance, and do incipient and full spin recoveries both with skidding turns and coordinated turns where the speed comes back and AofA increases. I find that trust in the other pilot also helps greatly with unusual attitude flying, keeps the yellow flags and helmet-fire at bay.

@watashiandroid8314 Год назад

I was very fortunate that my instructor demonstrated a spin to me a few hours into training (well, before 10 hours). Despite knowing all the book knowledge and having seen videos on RU-vid, I froze while he demonstrated it. Made me realize that I wouldn't know how I would respond to a situation until I experienced it. Did many spins after that and eventually aerobatics. I recommend it to every pilot. Interesting how your watch interfered with the control of the aircraft. Have you made any changes in light of that? That could be a section of a video about the importance of cockpit cleanliness or the risk of flight control jamming. It makes me feel better to see that even the pros (yes, I'm calling you a pro) plop it on every once in awhile. Thank you for the enjoyable high quality videos! Happy flying!

@9999AWC Год назад

I loved spin training, especially when I was the one initiating it during my CPL! Super fun!

@kirklarson116 Год назад

I got my PPL in about 1980. My brother was my flight instructor and I did a lot of spin training with him as a brother. Did a 7 turn spin in a Citabria. Learned how to put a reluctant plane (Luscombe) into a spin and recover and learned how to put an easy spinning plane into a spin and recover (Citabria). How many pilots have died because of spinning into the ground..."Moose Spin" or spin from base to final...etc. If pilots were trained in recognition, how to get into one and how to get out of one, we would have a lot less pilots loosing their lives. A pilots license is a" license to learn" but new pilots don't know what lessons they need to learn. We're putting new pilots into pedal cars and saying good luck. Put them as a copilot in the front seat of a Pitts for an hour and get tied up. Put them in a 150 and get stupid. My brother chopped power when I was 80 feet after takeoff in my Luscombe and he said "what are you gonna do now" instant decision making, I headed for a farm field straight ahead and we flew off. Twenty years later in my Maule...this same scenario happened. No damage and no worries. I've lost a couple friends due to spins into the ground. It's sad. It's not required training and that needs to change.

@lonnieblackwell5107 Год назад

I couldn’t agree more and consider the hour of aerobatic training the best money I spent.

@derekromkey4588 Год назад

I loved my spin recovery training flights!!

@JimForeman Год назад

I soloed a sailplane on my 14th birthday. Several months later my pilot father wanted to make sure I learned spins. He did not want to see me kill myself turning final when I was slow, shallow bank and lots of rudder to make the turn. A great way to spin in. He arranged for me to go up in a Citabria with an old pilot instructor for proper spin training. Power on; power off; shallow bank; steep bank; over the top and other variations. We spent over an hour until I could really understand what was occurring and why. We ended on precision recovery doing exactly 1, 2, 3 turn spins both to the right and left. Probably some of the best month ever spent in my pilot training.

@SVSky Год назад

Aerobatic training was the single biggest confidence booster I've had in my short flying career. Competing in IAC and being around skilled pilots has made a world of difference. Last comp we took 8 pilots out sharing a plane, of which I was the highest time with 100hrs PIC, and everyone flew amazingly. It's not for showboating, you definitely get better.

@ericscott1895 Год назад

Brings back good memories. My instructor had me do a lot of spins and slips in the Tomahawk back in 2000 when I got my first rating.

@palandorstvold5622 Год назад

When I did my commercial in Co. 30 years ago, Spin training and recovery was on the curriculum. A must have training and I am amazed you don't have that anymore!

@philippehendrickx1109 Год назад

When I learned to fly my instructor ( an old ex military guy) put me through spin and unusual attitude training. I also had that training when learning to fly gliders. I feel it made me better pilot.

@vr6chrisvw Год назад

"Flying the T" on the stick is how we learned to do Acro in pilot training. That helped me not induce pitch and roll at the same time.

@Happythingsare Год назад

Look at that! Ya came to my neck of the woods! So cool to see this episode.

@formulaphoto Год назад

I think the biggest thing I took away from this episode is the fact that there is a "better barf bag". Had to search Sporty's after seeing him pull it from his sleeve haha. Great episode as always and I echo the other comments about how well you worked through it all.

@3dogman311 Год назад

Very enlightening. Thanks..!

@lukemellor9950 Год назад

I think it's been said before many times but the production quality of your videos is incredible.

@FlightChops Год назад

Feedback Appreciated Luke! I try really hard to make ‘em worth your time to watch.

@jcnorth Год назад

Many years ago as an ATC staff cadet at a gliding school. I was there for almost two years flying most weekends we had suitable weather. I started to train as an gliding instructor. First instructor training was spin recovery. Shown twice by instructor then twice I had to demonstrate with a chief instructor aboard. Then sent up solo to practice stalling. Then they continued to send me up until I induced a spin and recovery. Only then could I progress further with my training. I was 19 at the time. Bearing in mind winch launch to max 800ft then spinning below that height. Great training I ended up doing the first three air experience flights.

@ChrisB257 Год назад

One thing Steve - I have to think that with that beautiful RV, you rarely if ever lose that sheer excitement being back in it. Any excuse :) I'm just a very aged 'ground only' pilot now but always felt that with spins, a deep understanding of aerodynamics is super important to help with what is needed for good safe recovery, plus of course the characteristics of any specific plane. Sadly, too many folk's first spin can be their last - insufficient grasp of what is actually going on. Enjoyable video.

@FlightChops Год назад

Glad you enjoyed it Chris.

@TimToussaint Год назад

Better know which side rudder to push than a deep understanding and push the wrong rudder.

@jannepeltonen2036 Год назад

@@TimToussaint I think a deep understanding includes practical understanding, being able to feel and understand what's going on, not getting surprised by what the plane does when you give it certain inputs. I think that's a different thing from a first principles theoretical understanding which might indeed result in pushing the wrong rudder in an emergency. But that's just my 5 c :)

@Haniel93 Год назад

Im currently in flight training in Germany, and as far as I know, spins count to aerobatics, so in order to legally do spins in flight training the FI needs to be an aerobatics instructor. And of course the airplanes need to be certified for spins, which my training aircraft Aquila 211 is not. But even before seeing this video I thought it would make sense after getting the license to take some hours with an FI and certified plane to experience the spin and train recovery.

@billolgaau Год назад

Spins, we did them for fun 60 years ago when I started flying in DH82 Tiger Moth biplanes. If you really want a challenge try one hour of Spins IFR in the Dh82 Tiger under the canvas hood with turn & slip (British with the slip on the top & turn on the bottom), Altimeter,Airspeed & no Artifical horizen or VSI. I was lucky to have an ex Australian ww2 relation ex P40 pilot to train me.

@richardfrey3716 Год назад

I'm an American and I asked for and received spin training from a buddy in his PT-22 and again several years later in a Citabra ~~~~I got lots additional spin practice in T-34's, T-6's (SNJ-5) and learned how to correct a spin while doing high speed turns, It worked out to be a snap Roll....It's a confidence builder and should not be abused !!!!

@mjeffn2 Год назад

When I got my pilot’s license we did spin training. My check ride required me demonstrate spin recovery. I haven’t flown in a long time. It’s inconceivable to me that a person is allowed to get a pilot’s license without spin training. (In fact, I began basic acrobatic training in a Citabria when I had about 30 hours. That was on me. It wound up delaying my getting the private pilot license because I would go to airport and instead of renting the 152 to prepare for the check ride, I’d rent the Citabria and do spins, loops, snap rolls, hammer heads, aileron rolls, slow rolls, barrel rolls, Dutch rolls, Clover leafs and, Immelmann’s. I think had about 80 hours before I got serious about getting my ticket.) Unlike the 152, the 172s I flew back then couldn’t even be gotten into a spin. They’d start then just enter into a spiral. That was almost 50 years ago. Those were the days.

@dylanbell9651 Год назад

We call what they're talking about "flying the T". Mostly to avoid pulling asymmetric G's.

@edcew8236 Год назад

On the right side screen, you can swap the attitude indicator and the MFD screens, so that the right side MFD is more readable from the left seat. Also, if you make two SD database cards (takes little extra time), you can update both databases (left and right) at once.

@keithheydenrych Год назад

It has been discontinued in PPL training here in South Africa as well. It was part of our training in the mid 70's.

@mhibbitt Год назад

You are a great teacher Steve.

@FlightChops Год назад

Thanks Matthew 👊 - I'm just tryna share the love of this side of flying that I'm still fairly new to. 🤘

@Skinflaps_Meatslapper Год назад

Nice to see you guys out there learning new things. Don't worry about the wingover definition...nobody can really explain it properly anyway, it's just a catch all term for any kind of course reversal with a vertical component in the broadest sense. Everyone has their own idea of what it is, from student pilots to aerobatic instructors, you'll get a different answer every time.

@lee42048 Год назад

Best ride I ever had was in a stunt plane where he went through all the maneuvers. I was too excited to get sick. Barrel roll was my favorite.

@michaeljbreault Год назад

I remember the first day I did spin recovery with my instructor. WaIt was a bit overwelming at first. The most memorable part was how happy I felt being back on the ground later that day. I felt like a had a new lease on life.

@JWSmythe Год назад

In the early 1990s, we did spins in the first couple weeks. I was picking things up quickly, because I had been playing the primitive flight simulators. So I knew how all the things worked together, I just needed to get the seat of the pants feel. Spins were the single most fun things I did there. It's a rollercoaster with no track. If I do it right, we're alive. If I don't, we may not be. Of course, my instructor was there, and he didn't want to die. We did what you described as the "hammerhead" repeatedly. He thought I was funny on the first one. Most people freak out. I was smiling and giggling, and asking to do it again. :) I really wish that I had the time and money to keep flying. If I had, I would have probably gotten myself a decent aerobatic aircraft, just so I could fuck around with the edge of the envelope.

@04m6gto Год назад

It's been cool watching you go from the person being shown to the person showing. What a journey!

@FlightChops Год назад

It's been a fun ride and I am happy to share these sorts of experiences... but I'm also keenly aware that sharing and instructing are two different things, so I try to stay on the correct side of that line. :)

@04m6gto Год назад

@FlightChops You're fine there, I think. It never feels like you're trying to instruct. Sharing knowledge and experience, though? Well done!

@jcmackenzie6387 Год назад

oh man, i remember doing spins at 5 hours. instrustor told me it's so i can deal with the worst case if it happens. and to know the feeling of a plane on the way to a spin. i highly agree that knowing how to avoid a spin is super important. thay said, im very happy i got to do them!! i only did spins from a stall to clarify

@paulschewene7850 Год назад

I see you're at Sporty's! Great place to go for us local aviation geeks, whether we're certificated, or just armchair sim pilots. Nice little airfield on the whole, too.

@jtkent28 11 месяцев назад

I was the designated spin instructor at my flight school when I was a CFI. I used to teach aerobatics in our schools Citabria so doing spins in the 172 was no big deal to me (though I never got complacent about doing them). Though it isn’t required to do them for PPL I always encouraged my students to go up with me and try them if they felt they wanted to. In most all cases they enjoyed the experience and were very glad they did. And if they didn’t want to I was always sure to explain and show them scenarios such as base to final turns where many stall / spin accidents happen. I have since retired from flying but will always still recommend everyone try doing some actual spins during their training.

@ecomandurban7183 Год назад

when I learned to fly back in 1971 spin training was a requisite before going solo. On just about every solo flight in the GFA thereafter in our club C150 I climbed to 3000 feet AGL and did a spin or two before doing the exercise for the day.

@nemo227 Год назад

I did spins, loops, snap rolls in a Citabria -- as a passenger. About 40 years ago out of Salinas, California. There was only one moment of anxiety. As we taxied out to the runway, I was sitting behind Lindy (yeah, that was his name), with my parachute and seat belt fastened and I noticed the pull-pins on the door hinges. It was at that time I realized that, if something broke, the big guy in front of me would have to pull the pins and clamber out all while the plane would likely be tumbling through the air and finally I might be able to get out. Was it fun? HELL YES!

@jj4791 9 месяцев назад

How to exit a spin: 1: Let go of the stick 2: Push on the heavy pedal. 3: reduce power (momentarily) if needed.

@jochentreitel7397 Год назад

Hi Steve, looking at you permanent grin I think back to when my instructor - without telling me before - introduced me into spinning, barrel rolls etc. After the first whohoooo I couldn't stop doing it all the way back to the airfield! It wasn't mandatory and still isn't in Germany but it has helped me a lot to understand the airplane. Btw, nice roll speed.

@johnmajane3731 Год назад

Spins were removed from the requirements many years ago in the US. They are required for a CFI candidate to be trained in them. When I got my initial license in 1978 spin training was not part of my training. I had an instructor teach me afterwards in a C-150 to do spins. I feel it is important that an individual knows how to recover since the normal reaction would be to use aileron which just makes it worse. I enjoyed doing them. The C-150 spins very nicely and recovers quickly. I did spins in a PA-38, it wrapped up quick and made a lot of oil canning noises. The Champ was very docile as was the cub. I did spins in Gliders and they were pretty gentle also,

@cantechit4186 Год назад

The Garmin ESP is amazing - what a game changer to really be my extra protection. This would make the upgrade alone worth every penny IMO. As a new pilot I want that extra safety….

@1hornet1 Год назад

I love the spins baby! I learn to fly in a Citabria. Easy in and outs. Fun fun fun!

@FlightChops Год назад

Yes they are!

@ss442es Год назад

I learned to fly in a Cherokee 140, which has a limited number of turns you should experiment with so spin training in that airplane was ruled out. I don't recall seeing spin training requirement to obtain a private pilot license. I did subsequently do some spins in a Cessna 150 but that was after I was licensed. In primary training, the instruction was to learn spin avoidance and how to recognize one and get out of it.

@danahearn656 Год назад

I was lucky enough to go through Navy spin training 1st in the T-34C then the T2C, to include inverted spins. I can’t imagine not having this experience.

@georgew.5639 Год назад

I flew spins and loops and experienced everything else demonstrated in this video. I thoroughly enjoyed it with no stomach issues whatsoever. I’m hoping to do it again too. I was flying with an instructor in a Citabria.

@FlightChops Год назад

Great to hear!

@1over137 Год назад

Never spun a real plane, but I used to love spinning RC planes. Had a Decathlon model in which I over powered the motor a little so when you got it all "departed" you still had prop wash on the controls and rudder to make it do mad stuff and basically throw it around "bashing it". Upside down at 2 feet up, loops with 2 foot recovery. Spins with 10 foot recoveries. I have one RC plane I own which I've never rolled, looped or spun. Simply because it was never designed or built for G or aerobatics, big long broad thick lifting wing carrying 1kg of batteries and cameras. I put it through it's emergency paces bringing it into a stall with positive elevator and found it actually just "settled" and began to drop height whie remaining + attitude and wings level, just a little snaking and I chickened out and smoothly as possible applied power and released the elevator load. I later learnt the hard way that slamming the throttles open at 6 inches off the deck in the flare, near stall is a bad idea, plane flipped upside down and nosed in in 1/4 second. Prop torque. Wing overs are about as far as I've gone with it, loaded 8s with about 80* bank angle "over the top" and maybe 3G and the wings where curved excessively upwards even with a double full length carbon fibre wing spar! Some vids on my channel.

@oyveydetoymeny Год назад

I got failed on my commercial check ride many years ago on a eight around pylons when I cross controlled to maintain a pylon on a wingtip, hit a pocket of turbulence and got a stall horn with a ball in the corner. Only when I went for an instructor’s rating in my home country did I undergo spin training and understand in retrospect. As an instructor I offered spin training on a voluntary basis and I think it should be re-introduced as part of every curriculum.

@FlightChops Год назад

Thanks for adding your experience / insights here!

@Skyhawk945 Год назад

Spin training was the most valuable part of my flight training as a private pilot. My instructor was amazing and incorporated the spin training into the program. I felt truly blessed to be proficient in spin recovery. I highly recommend that those not proficient consider the opportunity during your next flight lesson or flight review.

@jrprimo5372 Год назад

nice job!!!

@zappatx Год назад

We did spins over Addison airport on my introductory flight before training.. That was around 1987.

@nuchbutter Год назад

Dude. We totally did. Ad Nauseum. But that was at NAS Whiting Field, in T-34C Turbomentors (can you believe that frat boys and sorority girls got to solo in an aerobatic, turboprop after only 13 flights?) So, yes, I was shocked that the title implies spin training is not part of the the civilian US PPL! Had no idea...

@FlightChops Год назад

Right... so we don't have this wrong.., correct? It is surprising that most pilots going the general aviation route won't get any sort of spin training / exposure for a long time / if ever... I think Chris is representative of a typical U.S. based civilian pilot, yeah?

@nuchbutter Год назад

@@FlightChops I dunno, honestly. I solo'ed in that turboprop in 1988, and never touched a Cessna until last year. I retired from the Navy back in '15, with almost 6000 hours. I'm going for my Helo CFI Military Conversion right now, and have just completed my first year of crop dusting in an Air Tractor 402 back home in Kansas. All I can tell you is that we spun in Naval Aviator training until our eyeballs were plastered to the canopy. I remember having to be absolutely perfect in our procedures to get into and out of a spin before they'd let us solo, and if we couldn't do that, we'd get washed out of flight training, and get sent to drive boats...

@jameswebb2856 Год назад

I remember a night at LGA, number in line to get a taxi clearance. A short flight to HVN took 2 hours.

@sky5jump Год назад

Well I was in a 172 with a bent firewall on my first lesson. My first stall and we went over like a stone. Caught my CFI off guard but he recovered nicely. It was one of 17 aircraft on the line. My first solo flight to the practice area was in the same aircraft. Guess what happened? I believe that the first lesson learned of what the aircraft felt like as I started into into phase one incipient may have saved my life. I knew right away what was happening. I went on to be a CFI and I offered everyone of my students the option to see and feel what was happening with the aircraft.

@waynemayo1661 Год назад

Maybe reading Langewiesche's "Stick and Rudder" should be mandatory for all flight students, and including questions about what it teaches on the PPL written and oral.. At least then pilots would have some idea what to, and what NOT to do if a spin occurs--even without formal spin training. Reaching an incipient spin, with proper recovery taught, would be better than avoiding even coming close.

@ulpilotrmh Год назад

I started flying in 1960 in a Cessna 140 and was taught spin recovery in probably the 4th or 5th hour. Long story short, in the early 90s I got back into flying in "ultralights." I had many hours of instruction in a two seat Challenger while I was building my single seat Challenger and asked why we didn't do spin recovery. The answer I got was "Challengers don't spin. This I didn't believe. The Challenger is a pusher but otherwise is configured the same as a Cessna 140. One day I took it up and did about an hour of spin recoveries the same way I had been taught in the 60s and knowing how to recover saved my ass a few years later but that's another story.

@donaldsmith3048 Год назад

Try a Rudder Stall. cut the power, hold until it stalls and keep it level with the only thing that still controls anything the Rudder! That is fun. Drop flat, keep wanting to use the stick to keep it level, but stick doesn't do anything when stalled! Only rudder! Not sure if it works on all but works great on C152!

@adamdejesus4017 Год назад

It was a long time ago when I got to spin the T-34C at least a dozen times. 2 rotations was minimum but we were allowed to do more. Once you recognized a spin the turn needle was all you needed to recover, very forgiving aircraft.

@martyb6903 Год назад

Hey bud just a note, the teardrop actually was on something we did learn at harvs mang! Great flying & vid ! Keep up the great work!

@FlightChops Год назад

Damn. We do learn that in Canada?? I have never heard of it that I know of.

@CFITOMAHAWK2 Год назад

?????

@rvsjimbo Год назад

Very good instructor style. I wish I was lucky enough to do this!

@snowman100 Год назад

Awesome!!!

@mygremlin1 Год назад

Back in the 70's while getting my CFI I had to get 10 hrs of aerobatic training. At first I feared throwing my airplane out of control, but got used to it and loved it!

@kwatt-engineer796 Год назад

Spin training depends on your instructor, I had the benefit of a super good instructor & we did them often enough that recovery became almost a reflex. His frequent admonitions to "always fly the plane" probably saved me when the plane iced up while flying over mountains when the oil pressure suddenly started fluctuating (defective sending unit). ATC kindly gave us vectors to a lower altitude where we could shed the ice & stop sweating bullets.

@marcdragon2659 Год назад

I remember doing those my second or third lesson back in the day and thinking they were fun. Then had one accidentally while learning power on stalls and having uncoordinated rudder due to bad ball on the plane and inexperience. Was nice to have done a bunch already. Scared the hell out of my cfi hahaha. Recovered no problem.