Why DVA doesn't Counter Winston - Toronto Defiant's Unbreakable Defense

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I am a Professional Coach that has worked with teams such as War Pigs and Deimpero/Quick eSports. My goal is to bring my pro-team knowledge into the hands of players, and become one of the best educational creators on social platforms. If you want to follow me and keep updated, make sure to check out my other socials or my Discord.
Also, as an important note, I will not be covering any matches from the EWC LAN. If you have match requests, OWCS and FACEIT League are tournaments that I will be covering (mostly OWCS).
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If you have any video suggestions, I encourage you to ask, and feel free to ask questions in the comments!
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Overwatch, OWCS Tournament, Overwatch Coach, OW Winston, OWCS Winston, OW Winston Gameplay, Pro Overwatch, OWCS League, Pro Overwatch Analysis, Pro Overwatch Breakdown, Overwatch Pro Match, Overwatch Macro, Overwatch Micro, OW Coaching, OW Pro Coach, OW Winston Guide, Winston Analysis, Winston Playstyle, Winston Gameplay, Pro Winston Gameplay, Pro Winston Analysis, OW Tracer, OWCS Tracer, OW Tracer Gameplay, OW Tracer Guide, Tracer Analysis, Tracer Playstyle

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8 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 285

@DarthCookieOW Месяц назад

Reason 1 why Dva doesn't counter Winston: Your Winston is named Someone

@cryptic1008 Месяц назад

Well the main reason is reduced headshot dmg reduced dmg to armour Winton ignoring armour and DM

@bigman2917 Месяц назад

Not rly pros pretty much always played winston over dva even before winston buffs against dva

@invisiblescout6335 Месяц назад

but also Gib was one of ence's instaloss maps that tourney

@yiaro222 Месяц назад

who?

@nikolasnash7288 Месяц назад

real reason: 5v5 sucks and DVA cant solo tank

@qmweiididntwork Месяц назад

you said “someone dropped down” and i checked to see who dropped down 😭😭😭

@Coach_Ocie Месяц назад

Yet another victim of my GOAT Someone

@codeninja1 Месяц назад

Same. Please be more descriptive next time.

@maxmaokhamphiou6562 Месяц назад

@@codeninja1but he was being descriptive, did you Check the names? Someone never did that.

@codeninja1 Месяц назад

@@maxmaokhamphiou6562 someone was being sarcastic.

@maxmaokhamphiou6562 Месяц назад

@@codeninja1 that someone's comment seemed genuine to me, maybe someone should tell us if their comment was.

@zuhm4183 Месяц назад

anyone else think ocie is just a genius, she explains such complex concepts in such a simple way for us all to understand. much love

@AJxM8 Месяц назад

She?

@Arle3597 Месяц назад

@@AJxM8 yup

@Arle3597 Месяц назад

⁠@@rick-db1wroh no I’m not guessing, Ocie goes by she/her

@AT-ob8xr Месяц назад

@@Arle3597where did you see that?

@spartanslaxwax Месяц назад

@@rick-db1wrbased

@diniz6397 Месяц назад

Someone being called "someone" should be not allowed is hard as fuck to keep track and know if someone is someone or someone is THE Someone (winston). Furthermore great explanation, you're a wonderful explainer, very comprehensive and has a great didactic!

@thksai1684 Месяц назад

Someone is living rent free in your mind. There will be no more explaining

@michaellin4553 Месяц назад

@@thksai1684"rent free" lil bro isn't even old enough to afford rent, and yet you're talking

@boom-jr8vi Месяц назад

@@michaellin4553 Well, someone's salty...

@copycat6775 28 дней назад

Just say Winston, and 99% of the time you aren’t saying the players name you’re saying the character

@dynamichunter843 28 дней назад

@@copycat6775 Until both teams have a winston...

@ToasterTron2000 Месяц назад

Always a good day when Coach Ocie uploads. I haven't watched yet so I don't know if it was talked about yet, but I think one of the reasons why D.VA isn't a Winston counter, especially in the CURRENT sandbox, is Winston ignores armor now. There was a point in time where he could do practically nothing to D.VA but now he ignores armor and defense matrix.

@tomorchard6660 Месяц назад

He also has much faster, more aggressive and arguably less predictable mobility that’s harder to react to, meaning that he can both escape and chase better than Dva can. Another thing is bubble which he can use to shield dance.

@slipperymangos6586 Месяц назад

AND armor buffs make him take much less from dva low dmg pellets

@dragonoraddinikio2503 Месяц назад

you are the teacher who everyone wished they had at school. passionate and informative. thanks

@blacktimhoward4322 Месяц назад

I really like this video and the pace of explanations. My one request would have been to spend like 30 seconds explaining why Dva is traditionally considered a Winston counter, so we can appreciate why that logic didn't apply in this map.

@Coach_Ocie Месяц назад

I think the whole logic of "DVA counters Winston" came from OW1 and her role as an Off Tank. Back then it was her job to peel her backline and she was actually a part of the Core. This makes perfect sense, she played a role more similar to Brig. Since OW2's release, DVA lost that role. If you stay back and peel your backline all day and just shoot Winston, you control no space and can't do anything. This is why you see Vestola focus on hitting Toronto's backline, DVA's role has converted to Winston 2.0 and she tries to do the same things Winston does with a slightly worse kit (for that specific job). I probably could have covered that, that's a good point.

@blacktimhoward4322 Месяц назад

@@Coach_Ocie Thanks very much!

@elmacho1336 Месяц назад

The thing I love about these videos is how much thought and skill actually goes into the matches we see in pro level and then I compare it to my gold ass gameplay and I get sad that I'll never be that good :(. Great video as always Ocie, you're the goat!

@ReaveIdono Месяц назад

You can be that good. Just gotta commit and grind

@tawl-x 24 дня назад

You wont learn those things in ranked, but in a team environment, even in gold teams you learn basic map strategies. OW is a much different game in a team environment. Give it a try and look for a team in your skillrange

@ReaveIdono 23 дня назад

@tawl-x You can train everything outside of coordinated attacks in Ranked Games. Positioning and mechanical skill, tracking etc is enough to get you up to the higher ranks.

@tawl-x 23 дня назад

Thats true. On the other hand you can get a much steeper learning curve in a team environment. Things like the video mentioned about frontline and core… good luck trying this in ranked. Ranked is more about individual skill, awareness and adaption.

@ReaveIdono 23 дня назад

@tawl-x Yeah but the solid foundation is important before you start practicing team dynamics imo. You don't want to practice team dynamics with under developed skills. But I guess it's a matter of preference.

@uncrowned64 10 дней назад

Ive watched a lot of pro guides/coaching and played at a high level of overwatch myself this was not only entertaining but also very informative and educational good job

@broomlord8557 Месяц назад

Love seeing someone do this at 11:26 just one of my favorite plays to make as tank. Also, I know in your last video you said the video was lower quality but these past 2 have been just as good as all the others. Keep up the good work you deserve more attention

@spurious5557 Месяц назад

Analysis of lhcloudy's play when he got subbed in on 200 ping that one time

@CryoByte115 Месяц назад

The classic Cloudy Special, Thats What Happened

@Jqmping Месяц назад

I'm not sure why, but the ram call from someone during the spawnhold while he was pressuring the backline was really eye opening for me

@benlink202forever Месяц назад

I love the explanation for each part of the team comp; this is what makes me enjoy playing with my five stack because we pre talk what our positions are.

@toastedbread3962 Месяц назад

Ah yes. Toronto. My favorite Canadian team. Consisting of two Korean players and three Americans. Just as Trudeau intended

@lruddy8820 Месяц назад

What the fuck are you even talking about…. Its weird that your misinformed hatred for trudeau comes up in the comment section of an OW youtube video

@baroncosmos8324 Месяц назад

They are gonna need three more Koreans if they want a snowball’s chance

@N3ptunest 3 дня назад

These videos are honestly the most interesting overwatch analysis videos ive seen. Very well made! Thanks for the good advice Ms. Ocie

@fernata2553 Месяц назад

Awesome vid! I love watching pro OW and I don't catch half the things live that you point out in these vids!! P.S. love your voice progress, good job, keep at it!!!

@Coach_Ocie Месяц назад

Thank you! This video's recording was rough, been dealing with sore throat lately, but I will definitely keep at it :)

@tortue_ 24 дня назад

Armor and headshot changes were highly beneficial for winton. The armor piercing and beam type weapon being really good for dva too.

@Ross516 8 дней назад

We need a team made up of just silly names that make casting comms confusing now. Someone, Them, The Team, Nobody, and finally... Winston, the support main

@wondergrounded Месяц назад

Thanks a lot! Your breakdown of the game makes me understand it so much more. It's concise and simple. The only problem in understanding what's happening was with Someone. If only he had a different nickname :)

@pitchblackkittycat Месяц назад

after wanting to start playing overwatch more competitively and using a lot of resources as guides, these videos have been a great thing to look at and your explanations as to why they setup the way they do is invaluable

@ShayTopping Месяц назад

easily my favourite creator/ coach when it comes to competitive play

@crisppyyyyuh Месяц назад

Just found this channel while working and your vids have been keeping me from losing my mind lol, glad theres a new post!!

@commanderduck7840 Месяц назад

there was a rein v rein going on in the tourneys not so long ago, would love to see that

@hypernova2605 Месяц назад

Cover Falcons vs Crazy Racoon Upper Finals Dallas Major

@TsuchiGamer06 Месяц назад

Absolutely love this video and im glad this algo pointed me to you. I'm a Winston main and LOVE Gibby bc this map is so high ground focus, and people are terrible with high ground matchups. One of the only maps I actually enjoy Def more than offense in places

@wolfnx336 Месяц назад

I used to think I didn’t care about comp, and you made me realize I still kinda don’t, I’m just in love with how you structure your videos and explain it all!

@theSato 10 дней назад

Love to hear the Brood War music. Always a sign of FINE TASTE..

@Joshh.K Месяц назад

would be fun to watch you do a vid on bastionmains team

@treeman10 Месяц назад

As someone that plays Winston, this was VERY informative as how to get value with bubble and to play with your team thanks Ocie!

@KalebCrean 18 дней назад

These videos are so informative! Thank you!

@sharkattack6157 Месяц назад

Love the starcraft 1 music and in depth passionate analysis. New favorite channel??! :)

@Coach_Ocie Месяц назад

Classic Brood War fan, ZERG MY BELOVED :3

@hardstuck_styx Месяц назад

i’ve never seen a better explanation of a map, that was so insightful. luv ya vids

@_treed1 16 дней назад

On a real note, this is probably my favorite comp to play atm as a winston main. It's the comp I have the best understanding of

@aroxander Месяц назад

MORE STEINS;GATE MUSIC, THANK YOU QUEEN OCIE!!! YOUR VOICE TRAINING SOUNDS AWESOME AND I WILL NOT CALL YOU BRO OR MAN AS UNISEX ANYMORE CAUSE I RESPECT YOUR RIGHT TO PREFER EXPLICITLY FEMININE TERMS!! YOU'RE THE GOAT SIS!!!!!!!!!!

@strawberrybliss5655 Месяц назад

very good day to be a toronto defiant fan!! And this match wasnt even close. Poor ence got sweeped. Haha

@ceriwarburton7842 2 дня назад

The StarCraft music in the background is sooooo good

@Coach_Ocie 2 дня назад

I am a big Starcraft Brood War fan ^_^

@Oktufang Месяц назад

videos like this help me hit masters.

@Melody_ow Месяц назад

Ocie genuinely has such an amazing way of presenting analysis, she does an amazing job of explaining things that some people may just find so confusing...

@zombieguy3000 Месяц назад

These videos are always so interesting. Love the vids and the streams

@mathischartonbarguet6216 Месяц назад

I want more about dive comp that’s just so important to cover because there is so much things to say on

@usef0331 Месяц назад

more vids like this goat

@AC_Milan1899 Месяц назад

The legendary Gibraltar first point. The graveyard of many a team. That first point can be absolutely brutal for the attack against a highly coordinated defence.

@tymunster Месяц назад

"Sugarfree is a strong up and coming flex dps player" as he has been for like 6 years since he was 3

@Coach_Ocie Месяц назад

Stuck in Contenders jail LOL

@tymunster Месяц назад

@@Coach_Ocie the year after he escapes contenders, contenders is no more.

@danielcasas8582 29 дней назад

What a good analysis, looking out for the next one

@alvemaster Месяц назад

As a tank player its so refreshing seeing a player like Someone playing like he does. He is so free to do what he wants/needs and he uses Winston as utility instead of a diver. His job isnt to dive and kill, his job is to create enough space for his team to be able to kill.

@kaiwinter7542 Месяц назад

Ty for the video, Coach! Always look forward to these ❤

@luciots134 Месяц назад

great educational content as always miss ocie

@gysmothediamond2046 Месяц назад

Being named the descriptor for an unknown entity really had me going huh every few seconds.

@xervasow4557 Месяц назад

Love your videos, i feel like you are making the content i'm lacking to trully enjoy my grind on ow2. Please keep going it's awesome

@riku9766 Месяц назад

i love your content so much. i'd love to see you talk about ow theory, like killboxes or why tracer is always delgated to cart. idc if i know it already it's just interesting to hear about the layers you see in this game

@zipsey Месяц назад

Diddyfree tracer!

@diegoquezada4860 Месяц назад

My GOAT Ocie with another banger 🙏 thank you for these deep analysis videos :)

@apple-de8tx 2 дня назад

7:14 insane pulse

@prettyintense45 Месяц назад

I like the way she used sprites to show the role Someone had before the fight started

@Jace9IX Месяц назад

Omg real coach ocie She so talented n smart 🥺

@jeremyfrazier8220 Месяц назад

thank you goat 🙏

@ethereal5148 Месяц назад

Found your channel with the last vid and loving it. Keep it up

@quijible4839 Месяц назад

great vid, love the content

@ethereal5148 Месяц назад

“It’s a battle of attrition” W frieren reference 😹

@Tstormer Месяц назад

This was informational. Is here when no one communicates in comp

@kyann6321 26 дней назад

Someone is so good

@Lasszone Месяц назад

I recommend to do a tracer analysis for kevster or suagrfree or stalk3r

@Evallynn_ Месяц назад

your script writing / delivery is so consistent!

@therealtalkingstage Месяц назад

Hey Coach, is there any notable performances from support players in recent OW league?

@noamhO91 Месяц назад

viol2t beat 🙏🙏🙏

@Coach_Ocie Месяц назад

Currently working on a new Support focused video. I'd recommend checking out OBsSojourn for POV footage of Support players from OWCS. Any of the Koreans as well as SSG's backline (Landon/FunnyAstro) are worth looking at.

@BA-9MTXY Месяц назад

Wonderful video!

@pacinpm2 Месяц назад

+1 for StarCraft music.

@davidd.w.8681 Месяц назад

Very nice commentary. Thanks.

@yaxxydesu5776 Месяц назад

Girl you are the fucking best at doing that please keep going or im gonna cry and scream and piss and shit and puke myself to sleep

@SpicyBacon Месяц назад

5:23 I might be wrong here but i feel like it's very easy for Kevster to assist Vestola here not "near impissible" . One shift enables Kevster echo to make it to that highground with ease and if im not mistaken he had it at that moment. I could be wrong though.

@Coach_Ocie Месяц назад

Kevster was under immense pressure and forced away immediately. If Kevster shifts in, he is forced to fully commit to taking Blue Box and wouldn't be able to kite, he might die before he even reaches Blue Box. That's why he backs off underneath and doesn't attempt such a risky play.

@mrboomsnook3671 29 дней назад

I kinda assumed that when playing comp and I couldn’t block his electro shock therapy with my defence matrix

@oaktre3 Месяц назад

sugarfree has not been in the comp scene in contenders for SIX years to be called up and coming 😭

@Coach_Ocie Месяц назад

Contenders jail LOL

@alphahawk325 Месяц назад

I was just watching ur vids and a new vid came out

@bananaking3585 29 дней назад

Educational video bro

@Coach_Ocie 29 дней назад

Thank you :) I'm not a guy though

@bananaking3585 29 дней назад

@@Coach_Ocie I use bro as a gender neutral term, no harm meant

@mattevans4377 Месяц назад

So OWL is back to TracerWatch. Oh goody....

@jacksonGPT Месяц назад

I LOVE OVERWATCH ANALYSIS. just stumbled on your channel from my recommended page and i will be binging you last 40 videos over the weekend 🫡. These winston tips are very good. Alright i think this comment should be long enough to boost a bit. Maybe if you read this reply and ill reply and we boost it more!! ❤❤🎉

@aSuperPi. Месяц назад

I know you probably aren’t going to because KSA but the match between Toronto Ultra and Zeta Division would be a really good video since it was so close.

@Coach_Ocie Месяц назад

Yeah, I won't be covering EWC. Thing is, I really can't anyways (even if I wanted to) since no POVs will be released. I'd be working 100% off of the stream POV which is impossible for me to do with the kinds of content I put out. Kind of works out for me...I don't want to cover EWC and I can't anyways

@OWqueensara Месяц назад

Great breakdown, definitely helped me to understand what these pro teams are going for with each of their decisions. Also I’m jealous of your voice progress (can’t voice train because transphobic family)

@Oatmealz Месяц назад

just got chills hearing the StarCraft music

@Coach_Ocie Месяц назад

Terran 2 & 3! Someday I'll have to pull out the Terran 1. I love Brood war :3

@Sindoku Месяц назад

Someone is the ultimate troll.

@Kalakakku_ Месяц назад

If ENCE had their dive tank player here things could have gone differently. Unfortunately he could not be there because of the war I think

@jmscdy Месяц назад

girl you eat, slay and serve with these vids, keep them coming :D

@epoch7661 Месяц назад

I'd actually been wondering if Dva was really a counter to Winston at any level anymore outside of like Bronze-Silver. Before she could deal good damage to him, chase him easily and not take much damage from Tesla cannon. But Tesla cannon pierces armour now. By comparison, shotgun damage like Dvas is gonna be worse into Winston's armour health with the changes. She can still chase him around, sure, but that's gone from being a major threat to him to just being a way of taking space.

@Coach_Ocie Месяц назад

The reality is that Dva lost her role as a Winston counter long before that Winston buff. She hasn't been a "counter" since OW1. Back in OW1 your Dva would peel for backline and kinda play like a Brig. Remember in this video how I talked about the Core and the Frontline? Dva would switch between being Frontline and being Core. Now Dva is forced to Frontline pretty much 100% of the time. If she tries to perma peel the Winston her team has no space and fails to do anything. This is why you see Vestola on Dva focusing on the backline of Toronto and not Someone on Winston.

@epoch7661 Месяц назад

@@Coach_Ocie Notable that Winston has lost counters almost entirely on an individual basis, I actually fear him a lot more even in the low diamond level games I'm currently in than I do Dva. Dva is annoying, but at the end of the day she can bleed. It doesn't feel like your entire team needs to swap to deal with her. Winston though? I've not had a Winston game where the majority of my teammates haven't been forced off. Bastion, if anything, is countered *by* Winston nowadays, Reaper really just gets nothing done and anything without some sort of instant escape tool on a short cooldown is just getting no value. Armour penetration and recent tank buffs made him go from the strongest consistent tank in the game (but with a notable number of hard counters that could absolutely make him unplayable outwith coordinated games) to the strongest consistent tank in the game, period. I feel like the only reason Dva gets more flack from the playerbase is that she better supports brawl comps as well, which casual players in solo queue are better at running.

@Khy_r Месяц назад

i love ur content girl keep up the good work

@omarleone99 Месяц назад

Thanks for this video

@nrshocks6931 Месяц назад

1. Armor changes making dva do pebbles vs armor with her shotguns and micromissiles 2. winstons tesla gun ignores armor 3. dva cant defense matrix winstons primary fire.

@lknight1266 Месяц назад

Coach Ocie really loves someone, thou idk who that might be

@vmantrio7724 Месяц назад

i love seeing reviews of matches where a team plays a typically non meta character

@Poisonieer Месяц назад

This is a new spin on who's on. First.

@pinguOverwatch Месяц назад

Great vid queen

@piano1350 Месяц назад

"Someone" is such a troll name lmao

@tripanzo Месяц назад

Ence had the lack of flexibility because their dive tank player didn’t get visa to Dallas. Ence is probably the most flexible team in EU. Kevster can practically play anything and they have a great squad depth.

@Coach_Ocie Месяц назад

They are definitely flexible, I will say though that it wasn't a US VISA issue and was rather a Ukraine policy issue (Men disallowed from leaving the country during the conflict)

@tripanzo Месяц назад

@@Coach_Ocie oh mb

@blurse1652 Месяц назад

great explanation

@dantebautista_ Месяц назад

12:30 fist bump?

@Coach_Ocie Месяц назад

Backline synergy was NOT THERE

@Tyrgalon Месяц назад

"diva counters winston" argument always baffled me because one of divas defining features is defence matrix, and winstons main weapon just goes "yeah nah" to that. Never had a problem playing winston into diva.

@pirate135246 Месяц назад

@@Tyrgalon what is your peak sr?

@janbazuine6636 24 дня назад

Before armour and tank passive changes dva could nuke winston with shotgun headshots, but now her shotgun does no damage while winston ignores her high armour

@zerohcrows Месяц назад

i wonder if in the last fight the play is for kevester and ghost to play blue box while vestola and masaa contest high ground and Kai pushes point.

@Coach_Ocie Месяц назад

It might have been better to put Ghost on Blue Box to start...I don't think you need to throw Kai on point here though because Toronto will just match with Sugarfree and honestly Vestola needs the help from Kai on the high ground hit. I think The best idea would be for Ghost and Kevster to play Blue Box and to execute a 3man hit with Vestola, Kai, and Masaa. If Vestola actually survives that hit, he can stabilize point and then it's up to Toronto to re-engage and take their turn. ENCE just didn't get that far and lost Vestola far too early. You definitely make a fair point with Ghost on Blue Box though.

@AxIS8_ow Месяц назад

CASUAL OCIE W QUEEN

@isaiah5833 Месяц назад

I never understood why Dva was considered a counter to Winston….like, she’s fast like him, has better dmg at times, and has a way to stop damage sure….but she can’t stop Winston’s dmg, not to mention it’s not like she has some ability to override Winston’s bubbles, you just sort of brute force against Winston. The armor changes + the fact Winston ignores armor also now shows this. I can imagine that she would be STRONG into Winston, but not a counter