I missed some things out to avoid the video being 40 minutes long but the main reason the sweat really blew up with the Vecna patch which I didn't explain well was pop pain res were the only decent gen regression left before the patch. If you want more detail, I'd highly recommend this video from Choy where he goes over all the previous killer meta's for the past few years. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-gYEHUPcrq-I.html& Though I don't agree with what he believes the killer meta will go to (eruption is just unusable in it's current state especially with the 8 gen kick limit). I made this video since the Vecna patch, my matches have been horrific on both sides and I've noticed alot of discourse online about it. I anticipated this happening in the patchnotes but I see alot of people not understanding why it's happened so I made this video to try and explain it to those who don't understand (even though I will probably get the DBD mob on me for it). I will return to my regular style of videos after this and have another Sadako meme-esque video in the works for those of you who really enjoy those types of videos.
10:22 What was monitor & abuse and Shadowborn shared a description Other fov effects do not stack Take this goddamn line and use this on perks that need the buff Call of brine & overcharged did not need to stack together
Lol..dude that sht started in 2020! Since then Killers got critically nerfed in EVERY PATCH! There were some with a few buffs, too but even in the "big Killer sided" Update there were unessesary Nerfs in it! And yes, Survs have those changes , too, but nothing that makes a whole character unplayable! But we are on the samne Page! Everyone who thinks this is Killer sided and overall people that started playing after 2020 wouldnt have left grey ranks in 2018! FOR SURE!
@@rxntei4019 of course, however due to the simple fact its easier to meet toxic survivor due to the fact you facing 4 of them. And if one is gonna start bragging about other might also do it even tho they are not toxic themselft. this is just how psychology work
Nothing worse than someone playing a fun D tier killer like Ghostie and Myers playing as nice as humanely possible then seeing people bag at the exit gate.
I reserve that for killers who hump me or hit me on hook, tunnel me xD I don't understand why survivors won't just leave sometimes. I am waiting for my golden BW play someday ❤
Bro I only do it when the survivors piss me off. I literally was getting flashbanged blinking 2-3 times in a row and soon as I knock a survivor they flashlights me again it got so annoying so I literally just knock one and go on to the next and they kept reviving so I kept knocking until they all bled out. Honestly I was satisfied so I'm gonna keep it.
@@DeputyFish As someone who played since release and runs comp I can say you have no idea what you are talking about. 2016 DBD was absolutely terrible balanced but everyone was so incredibly bad and trolling that it felt balanced. Now since people got better at the game an already unbalanced game feels how it is - unbalanced. It is a skill issue on the survivor end. People run the most broken stuff and still die, thats just bad survivor skill. If you dont believe me Id like you to run as trapper against my team to understand that you have literally 0 chance to win even with full gen regression.
Survivors be like: slugging is so unfair! It makes my anti-carry build useless! I was just spawming lound noise notifications at this safe loop on the edge of the map when the killer got me, and now he is not carrying me to a hook so I can free myself, so unfair.
@@SadStinkyevery time I use boil over and see a hook in front of me, I kid you not, I say “please be blind, please be blind, PLEASE, NOOOOOOOOOO, dammit.”
@@StizzY8 because killers are being abused so much their basicly becoming afraid to pick up survivors and find slugging a straight up safer and better playstyle to win.
Normal design philosophy: X (bad thing) happen > why? Because of Y > fix y BHVR: X happen > make it worse > now Z is bad > make it worse > now Y is bad > make it worse + make it easier to work around > X is back > repeat
you missed the part where they realse a perk that is entirely worthless unless you face exactly that strategy, like come on man, who needs to have hurt you if you run mad grit as a standart perk
@@iLooking123 time to math i guess Warning: i have a life, and even though I am a science geek I am not fantastic at math, so all of this is completely arbitrary. This isn't a math equation, and abstracting this idea into this medium is very difficult. Do not read past this, for your own sake. We have a game, with a fun value which is named_z_. We want a fun game, so the higher the value of _z_ the better. Lets say, a good game dev should achieve a _z_ value of _3 or more_ (_z>=3_) The value of _z_ is determined by this equation: _a+b+c=z_ _a_ represents game mechanics _b_ represents the community _c_ represents why you would play this game (There's many more into making a good game but you read the warning) _a_ is a simple, and dbd is a pretty simple game, so lets say it's equation is _a=1_ _b_ is more complex, Ok Im sorry i need to sleep and doing this on a phone sucks, what I was going to say is that b is based on c, and c is based on a, and b is the largest contributing factor to the success of this game. So when z is bad, b is why. The reason why it's b is because of c, and the reason why it's c is because of a. The problem with bhvr is that instead of tracing the problem back to the causs, like if b had an issue, then they'd mess with a instead of tracing it back to a and fixing that. That, and the fact that bhvr only tweaks the numbers instead of changing the equation, and this reluctance causes very little good change to happen. Im not saying I could do any better of a job, but I'm one dude. That is a successful company with several people behind every tiny insignificant change they make to nerf the pig and somehow buff nurse. At least get more than one W a year. Fuck this, my speech is slurring, im going to bed. If you got something from this, great. If you didn't, i don't give a shit. Go grab a hotdog, and a glass a water. Stay hydrated i guess and gn
@@smithbabies7886 what the hell, bro you typed Essay to answer a non answerable answer of mine. I just type it for joke. "math aint mathing". If you're getting offended by that. You're really geek.
As someone who plays both roles, its insane how many arbitrary rules the killer has to follow. Don't tunnel, Don't leave people on the floor for more than 5 seconds, don't stand too close to someone that's been hooked, don't even LOOK at someone who's been hooked, don't run meta, don't play top tier killers, its insane how many rules survivors have in place for killers to not be considered toxic killers while survivors have almost none of them.
killer main here, and this is my take on why this kind of situation has formed. I think part of the issue here is that the killer, by virtue of the very role they're supposed to be playing in this game, is always an antagonistic force to the survivors, your entire goal is to stop the survivors from accomplishing their task. from the point of view of a survivor player the killer is usually going to feel like the bad guy by default, they need to go out of their way to seem friendly and fun. meanwhile regular survivor gameplay isn't really antagonistic to the killer in any way. they're harmless by default and need to go out of their way to choose to be toxic. and this results in a situation where your average survivor perceives the average killer as just being a bad person. all those little arbitrary rules are to make the killer as non-antagonistic as possible, which completely misses the point of the killer's role. I very much feel like survivors that hold such perceptions would be better off playing a 4 vs AI game rather than 4 vs 1.
@@Eclipsed_Embers you aren't wrong. but also failed to neglect that survivor meta is very killer antagonistic. from having dedicated baiters to loop and crush you, having a lurking flashlight player present at all times, THE PERKS, the door T-Bagging... survivors are actively fighting back against killers by sabatoging hooks near their downed friends and wonder why we just leave them to bleed out? im not saying that it's WRONG, but both sides have different ways of pushing foreward and backward, and as someone who plays both but perfers killer, the meta is equally bad. typically, as soon as gates are open, I'll leave. no exceptions other than to unhook. even then, I sometimes assume someone else has it. I respect a survivor who gets away without me knowing a lot more than one who waits at the gate to screw me over and t-bag. after all, I play survivor as stealth. Im not too great at looping, but I can definately escape if I try hard enough. it feels way more fun to sneak around the killer than trying to beat them to death with pallets and flashbangs and stun mines... (personally.)
@@KeyboardTarantula part of my whole point was that those actions often aren't beneficial to the survivor, not that survivors don't do them (because they certainly do) going through behavior from each side that's typically seen as toxic and assessing whether it actually helps their side ("good" if it does. "bad" if it doesn't) Survivor repeated loud noise notifications. bad. you're wasting time not actually doing anything of worth to your own side. clicking flashlights. bad. nothing of worth contributed and flashlight power wasted. flashlight squads. bad. if you're all running around trying to annoy the killer with flashlights none of you are actually doing the objective. exit gate teabagging. bad. you're basically just giving the killer extra time and opportunity to potentially take you out and win (in my early days the exit gate teabag was basically my signal that I was going to get at least 1 kill) killer tunneling. good. the faster you get a survivor out of the game the easier the whole thing is going to be. proxy camping. good. you're guarding a hook from a respectable distance whilst also doing your patrols to place some pressure on the others and guard some gens. face camping. bad. even before the update that made this basically impossible to do properly it simply wasn't a good strategy. slugging. good. lets you go and do some other tasks for a bit before coming back to pick the survivor up instead of immediately committing all the way. basically all the actions that survivors do that get labelled as toxic are ones that are actively detrimental to their own side, meanwhile most of the actions killers do that are labelled as toxic are things that help them. also, on the rare occasion that I play survivor, I also prefer the hiding and sneaking around thing to chasing (mostly because I suck at chasing and find having the killer in my line of sight scary...). I honestly think the game would be better if there was at least 1 mode/killer that really emphasized hiding as the option (because we already have a couple that pretty much completely invalidate hiding in favor of forcing chases instead, it'd be nice to have some go in the other direction. I'd say that a fast blind killer that focuses on sound (like the Death Angel or the Future Predator) would be ideal for this, easy to hide just by being still/slow but almost inescapable if you run and make a ton of noise)
@@Eclipsed_Embers I agree with that last bit, and while what you said about the first bit does "not work on killers" I feel like it definately works on lower skill or newer killer mains, but otherwise it's just a timewaste and a distraction. nowadays, all of those are benificial if they take time, because the generator economy can lead to 3 complete gens in the 1st minute. (clear exception is flashlight rushing. that literally ends with nothing happening.) as dumb as they seem nowadays, the most benifit you can do is distraction to give time for gens. I swear, im more nervous and scared playing killer than survivor 90% of the time due to the micromanagorial stress of it. but, I do often have the benifit of injure pressure, which is far more important than hook or down pressure long term. in short, I belive you are right, however, current gen economy encourages distraction meta, and as pointless as those can be, they can eat up time quickly.
i havent really played in a hot min i think ever sense skull merchant or was it sadiko either way for a hot min and is till see the arbitrary rules for killers still happen. personally i jsut ignore them and if they wanna complain i jsut hit them with im the killer im not gonna follow some stupid rules made by survivors thats not my role my role is to kill you not listen to you try to tell me how i should be playing. if they chill than its all good but i normally save that for the toxic ones. helle ven back durning the kille boycott back in the day behavors balance has always been survivor focused. and the few times the killers actually get something its nerfed into the core of the earth. hell they tried to nerf nurse int he worst way possiable and that enrf was so universeally hated by both killer mains and survivors they had to reverse it. most of the good perks again nerfed. survivor perks are nerfed from time to time but holy fuck is it jarring how little they get nerfed. ill be honest with you i personally target anyone with the ttv in their name i personally go after twitch streamers unless they are the well known ones ill have fun with. but most of them are pretty toxic and i purposely target them.
Personally I just hate the weird made up rules survivors have that they think killers have to play by. Killer focuses the weakest survivor out of the match to reduce the number of opponents thus increasing their odds at victory? Can’t do that, it’s tunneling and toxic. Patrolling around a hooked survivor to keep up pressure and take advantage of one of the survivors primary goals? Camping, toxic. Running literally any combination of decent perks? Try hard, toxic. Just plain out playing the survivor team? Has to be cheating. After a while I just decided to embrace it. I’m playing a serial killer, why in the hell would I care what my victims think of me? They want to call me a monster? So be it, I’ll be one for them.
To be honest I don't uphold those rules on people, but I do play according to "the survivor rulebook" simply because I don't care about 4King because it's a negative feedback loop. If I cared about it, and kept playing to win I'd just go up the MMR super fast and then either have to play sweatier and sweatier or get stomped. I have more fun 12 hooking, but when I play surv I do not expect killers to play like that. Most people want to win. I'm just weird. Either way my goal in those matches is to either do something cool or maximize BP.
@@NotRealAkira You're an inspiration, I mean that. I want to play like that so badly but my anger always gets the best of me. Do you have any tips to playing less win-focused? Like for just casual play?
I try to follow these rules to an extent for my own benefit. Personally I don't like being near the same hook the entire match or focusing on one person, I try to play as casually as possible and stay on the move. But as soon as I see one tea bag I'm gonna fully commit myself to making the match as miserable as possible for the survivor that did it. I will pull out every dirty trick I know and give them as much false hope as possible out of spite. I was playing Freddy the other day (cause he's my boy) and I was just playing casual like normal and was stuck in this infinite loop on that one street map by the house and the guy kept tea bagging. So I set up a ton of false pallets and made sure he ran to them and slammed them over my head, he started going by that infinite loop again but I managed to mind game him just about as the last gen was done. So I waited for the other survivors to try and saved him but was adamant on staying on top of him and hit anyone who got close. Wasn't running noed or any of that other fancy stuff, just a few things that I thought made the game fun. One of the dwights opened the exit gate by the house and ran out starting the endgame, the other two kept trying to get him back but couldn't and eventually had to leave, in a turn of luck the hatch spawned pretty close to where we were, so I swung at the hatch motioning for the David I had knocked down to escape, he got pretty close but right as he was about to escape I used my yellow mori on him and closed the hatch. Same thing I say to all toxic survivors in post game chat is "Shouldn't have teabagged". I don't mind following certain "survivor" rules like not tunneling or not camping, because I want everyone including myself to have fun, and I don't mind losing either if it's all in good fun, but I mean actual tunneling or camping, like standing a meter away from a hooked survivor staring him in the face kind of camping. But when they choose to be toxic I will reciprocate that behavior and make the experience unpleasant for them to have fun rather than play into their false rules that benefit only them. I will watch 4 individual survivors bleed out and die just to get back at them for their toxicity. But I always try to go into the next game friendly again. I even let friendly survivors escape if they make an effort to have fun with me. I was playing singularity the other day just to try him out and was doing good and the one random Bill just started emoting and stuff and we messed around for the whole match. Same when I was playing with Freddy a while back, two of the survivors were pretty friendly and we ended up smashing fake pallets over my head the whole game. The game is fun when everyone has the intention of having fun, but when people are toxic it's gonna spoil it for someone which isn't the point of a game. First for me, and then for themselves when I try to make it miserable for them in retaliation.
Something Ive dealt with as a killer main is, if I play a killer Im not great at or dont play much in high mmr to have fun, I get berated hard. Very hard. Like bruh?
When I first got deathslinger my first game I went against a p100 Rebecca that teabagged and then proceeded to bully me in pm after the game. She only got away because her teammates body blocked for her multiple times at the end even after they seen her abusing boil over. She goes to tell me I suck and yada yada. I tell her it’s my first game as deathslinger and if you’re so good why is your MMR at my freshly bought killers MMR? That shut her up real quick
Well its not like you can choose what MMR you play in? But yea I totally understand what he's talking about I totally switched from Pop/Pain Res because even when using all 4 stacks of pain res and having at least one person on deathook and the gens are finished in 6 mins, and when you lose its almost never gg, its "Wow how bad are you" "Uninstall" etc, but the 7 games I won prior to that I gave hatch or the door.... Ive stopped giving hatch or escapes
What I find the funniest part of that is that it's always trash survivors. So many times I face killers who are destroying the team to the point they could win at 2-3 gens left, but then have one fun chase with one survivor and decide to turn it into a 1v1s until all gens are done and to let everybody escape, yet endgame you'll have one survivor call them trash at the game ?! Like dude, you were dead on hook at 4 gens left without him tunnelling you, you went down in 10s everytime, stfu. I honestly don't know if those people are so delusional they truly believe the killer was trash or if they're so pathetic their only joy in life is trying to start beef with randoms on video games.
@@Libellulaire Pathetic that they have to beef with randoms, Im a killer main but I play survivor too, and when I have like 5 hooks and they are at 2 gens I kick it into high gear to win, and then Im a "Sweaty Tryhard" but if I throw on a meme build and 12 hook, but lose at 8 hooks and get tbagged and called garbage lol
Finally, you're the first person who plays mostly survivor that actually understands the issues of this game and the butterfly effect this cause on the gameplay experience of those who play mostly killer
I play mostly killer for almost 7 years now and I never had a problem you know why? Because I don't treat games like a job I treat them as games meant to be fun if you are not having fun playing killer it's your fault not the survivors you can choose how you play or just meme around every now and then not every match has to be try hard mode
@@Dwightlockerhumper you don't have to play a game like it's your job to still not have fun 💀 the fun of dbd and most multiplayer games relies on both sides, so the way people play quite literally determines how fun a match can/will be. Losing is inevitable, but people, of course, like to win more than they lose, so when one side of players go OUT OF THEIR WAY to "play" with the other side, the game just becomes unfun. The last sentence is what the video is about lmfao, where less toxicity on both sides (in this case survivor) will decrease the need to try hard to win
@@Dwightlockerhumperpeople play dbd because they want a fun slasher game where both the slasher and survivors are both real people. When you put the balance out of whack and give the survivors the edge with buffed perks and proceed to nerf killers you inherently breed the need to play unfair. The survivors are taking away our ability to enjoy the game, why can’t we return the favour, at least that starts being fun again.
@Deadman7600. The survivors hardly have more powerful plays like 70% of the matches the killer comes out as the winner with 3 or more kills so how is it unfair for killers? Yeah maybe 1 or 2 match's out of a 10 hour play session but most match's you are winning statically it's not really unbalanced especially nowadays the only thing unbalanced is swfs and that about it. When I play killer I win almost every match and I play fairly as crap unless the survivors play unfair but that's like 1 match every other day most of the time survivors just mess around and lose the game for the whole team
@bringbackthedarkness Yeah but it's just not true there is more toxicity on the killer side because killers nowadays get butthurt and think they have to win every match like I told the other guy killers win rate is almost 70% so how are the survivors going out of thier way? And yeah, swfs are unbalanced as hell, but you won't get that many swfs and solo que is basically giving the killer the win survivors are stupid most match's so if you're not having fun it's probably because you are destroying 3 of the survivors while the 1 good survivor is looping you and your getting mad because you can't catch the one person
Honestly I just hate the whole beef survivor and killer mains have. It's a game, You're not in a squid game like tournament where losing means death. Survivors fail to read killer patch notes. I know I'm a killer main but Survivors don't realize how stressful it is sometime to play killer, like its a 4v1. Another issue is content creators and streamers who mainly play survivor that make people who follow them grow as toxic as they are, causing a butterfly effect where if you loose one match it's that sides fault and they're "Not good". There are a bunch of sore winners too on the survivor side as well. I'll be honest I feel like sore winners on Killer side are rare. survivors treat the killer like their entertainment and toss them away like toys like it's not a real person playing as the killer. They give up when stuff doesn't go their way and makes the killer just have a boring match. examples are stuff like sabo squads giving up when someone runs franklins or agitation and mad grit, or they just choose to hide from the killer till the match timer runs out. Edit:War…War never changes. Like I can hate the beef and still complain guys.
Fax bro and I play both sides and this is fax there are hardcore survivor mains who don’t understand the stress from killer and how it acc takes skill. From a survivor pov I only give up if there is an afk teammate or something throwing the game, if not I don’t just message the killers saying they’re bad or ez or teabag I have respect
Well, when you’re playing a role is normal to think that the other side is the problem. The anniversary just showed us how killers can be totally assholes for no reason. This is not a one vs them, killers can be trash too, but we can see people talking about survivors being the mean ones because 4 people scream louder than 1.
Both sides can be toxic and if you main killer you're only going to encounter more toxicity from survivors. It's why survivor mains feel like killers are more toxic. It's just probability. You're kind of adding fuel to that fire by perceiving it this way
Killers play like their lives depend on it because they get no kills if they play casual. Survivors have so many tools at their disposal to get gens done quick. Deja Vu, Hyperfocus/Stakeout combo, BNP, etc. Killers pretty much have to play ruthlessly unless they want their games to last 5 seconds. I’ve played both sides, and I’ve seen how fast gens can pop from both perspectives. It’s why I don’t even mind if killers slug, or camp or tunnel near the end, because they need it to up the pressure at this point if they haven’t gotten kills by the endgame. Edit: Not everyone wants to spend money to get 4 gen regression perks, and even with 4, that doesn’t slow things down a whole lot considering how fast gens will still go with all the good gen speed options survivors have.
Hey If you ran hyperfocus, bardic, stake Out, deja vu and you Manege to Hit great skillcheks only you can withe a bit of toolbox Help finnisch a Gen alone in 35 sec Sounds fair right? I acely never fehlt the need for korrupt more in my Matches than now....
Gens go so fast that survivors can literally fuck around, break totems and open chests and they can still win no problem, as killer not moving for a whole minute at the start of the match means at least 2 gens pop by the time you find a survivor, i've had multiple games where a gen pops in less than 30 seconds while i'm moving across the map and still survivors were mad as hell in chat because i tunneled one out of the game, because by the time i hooked someone once and then they got unhooked, 2 gens were gone and a third one was at 70%, of course im gonna slug the unhooker and chase the rescued survivor, i need everyone to stop repairing gens right now or the match is finished
@@shenelljohnson74 withe the right Setup from the surv Side and a good Spawn (next to gens) thats accely possible i'm a killermain and the sec i decide to Run a funbild in my Main (Bubba) 3 Gens are cocked bevor the First down the only Thing they have to do is preedrop every pallet to win AS Killer you can't do shit about IT resolting in all Gens done bye the time the Last pallet is droped:/
i think if the majority of the 'survivor mains that never play killer' actually started playing killer, then maybe they wouldnt act so shitty. you wouldnt be so quick to dunk on them after a hard match if you know what it feels like
Every single time survivor players treat the killer player like he's an AI just there for their entertainment. Everything survivors do is fine and justified because it's :) in :) the :) game :) but anything a killer does that doesn't adhere to the survivors' rules is unfair. Hooking? Unfair. Camping a hook (Despite being the worst possible play on a killer)? Unfair because we'd rather throw the game and complain about the killer than finish the game and win 3-1. Slug? Unfair. Slowdown builds? Unfair. After years of this game, playing on both sides - fuck survivor players. They make being a killer miserable, and they make survivor solo queue miserable because they forced killers to sweat every match.
As a killer main tunneling is a useful strategy, so is slugging, and proxying hooked survivors to secure a few kills. However if the survivor mains want this kind of gameplay to stop, the devs need to pull they're heads out they're asses and stop nerfing gen regression perks, as well as others that make the matches last longer. Furthermore 4 man swfs with the same build to bully/troll killers deserve to get slugged, because dbd has gone from a horror game to a repetitive 1v4 where it's the killers fault no matter what the outcome. Toxicity will breed more if the devs keep holding the survivors hands through it all, mind you not all survivor mains are like this, but good majority will ruin your day if they get pissy after one loss.
as a survivor main I agree with that too many of us are toxic, I've always tried to run off meta builds and not be toxic. I'm still often told I gen rushed killers even without any gen perks or toolboxs and I also don't want the games to be over too quick but if the killer isn't on me and non of my teammates are in need of heals or have any hexs we need to clease or a killer power we need to play around. what else am I supposed to do? I am genuinely confused. the only other thing I can think to do is wait around a chase for a sabo or flashy save but that's also considered toxic, and kinda the same lvl of boring as holding m1 on a gen. I just don't find hiding from the killer super fun, I perfer running killers as it's the main reason I play survivor. /gen
If gen regression perks stay strong as they were, then killers are just going to continue using them while also tunneling slugging and so on. Keeping them as is solves nothing.
@@doompunk64 I'm not saying they weren't powerful, however lots of killers who depended on more than 2 gen defense perks were always gonna stall the game if survivors had no map memorization. This spike in slugging has been a result in the devs not paying attention to players who KNOW what they are talking about to make trials less of a pain in the ass, and more fun. But instead listen to the whiney ass blow bunny morons that complain about gen defense perks being too strong. As a result of the devs being half assed here we are, a slug fest where survivors are gonna complain to make unbreakable base-kit and killer players being left with no other alternative than to play more aggressive to fucking win.
@@doompunk64 You have never played killer before. Tunneling and slugging are usually because A: The survivor was toxic B: Adept Achievement C: Gen rushed and need to get a few kills.
@@Ninjaknife11733you have never played killer before, tunneling happens when there isnt a good amount of gens completed and someone gets unhooked in a decent proximity to you, it is advantageous to let them get 1-2 gens popped, tunnel and get the second stage, and maybe get the other player who unhooked injured or downed, and maintain 3 gen while pressuring the 4th gen, not because a survivor was toxic, even if they were it's stupid to tunnel, toxic survivors pre throw pallets with windows, it is nice to get many pallets out the way, but outright tunneling till their death will make you lose the game, and being gen rushed has barely anything to do with it, it's circumstance, gen rushed, or no gens complete, if it is easier, and more efficient, a tunnel will happen. Idk man it's just crazy you said slugging happens cuz a survivor was toxic, like you got tbagged at one pallet so you slugged everyone? Tell me you suck at/don't play killer
I wish there were more perks like Grim Embrace or Pain Res. Not necessarily the gen regression/blocking aspects, but the idea that a perk can incentivize you to go for OTHER survivors instead of tunneling. I feel it's such a healthy design for perks. Yes, a killer can still benefit from such a perk even while camping or whatever, sure. However, these sorts of perks DO still favor a playstyle of alternating survivors rather than tunneling, which I feel is really good for both the enjoyment of survivors and killers. Friends till the End is another perk design I like for all the same reasons.
They should bring back old BBQ. Old BBQ and Chilli gave you double blood points if you hooked all survivors. I used to use it all the time and considered getting the 4 hooks a win with a real reward, so the games were more fun for me and for the survivors, since I could vary the other perks and wasn't super focused on just killing everyone. Then they got rid of the bonus BP. The remaining 4-hook perks aren't that exciting, and have no benefit beyond maybe giving me a chance to win this game, so I still need to be sweaty and try and exterminate the entire team.
We had perks like this. Such as BBQ and Chilli. But BHVR decided to nerf it. They also nerfed pain res. A lot… So they seem to don’t want us to play said perks and just bring 4 aura nurse or permanent slug blight
Friends til the End is a cool perk but it is flawed. 1. If the obsession is using Distortion or just hides in a locker it invalidates the info the perk is supposed to give and often Distortion will have built another token by the time the killer hooks someone again if they chase someone at full health. Meaning some killers are just incentivised to continue tunnelling the one player they know just got hooked to continue applying pressure and hopefully burn through more Distortion token on the obsession. 2. If you hook the obsession sometimes it just keeps cycling back to a survivor who has already been hooked. I've had games as killer where I use FTTE to hopefully go to different survivors but there's always a 1/3 chance it just immediatelg goes back onto the player I already chased earlier, meaning the same 2 survivors keep getting revealed by it. I think this could be mitigated if FTTE prioritised making players who have been hooked less to become the next obsession so that it avoids the issue of just going back onto the same player over and over while the other survivors manage to not become the obsession. Distortion in general also needs to be looked at because it affects so many perks for being just 1 perk choice on survivor side and actively denying too much information from killers is detrimental to survivor team play. Yes, sometimes being able to stealth is nice, but people playing super immersed to a point of selfish self-preservation all match and not interacting with the killer just makes the experience worse for the remaining survivors always being chased instead.
@@sparkyanimations213BBQ & Chilli was being used for the bloodpoint gain rather than the aura read. The actual in game effect hasn't changed, it's still a solid aura read perk it's just people are no longer using it to get bonus BP anymore.
Survivor main who complain 247 and never play killer really think they are the gods of ballence not like they would abuse broken stuff the second its released and that annoys me
I’m a survivor main and I agree. The ones who bitch the loudest maybe play killer once a month or never. And they always act like they have this deep understanding of the game
I defended the killer from being ridiculized and harassed in post game lobby and I ended up harassing back the other survivor after he kept provoking and tbagging doing nothing the whole game. Result? I got banned for 1 week for harassment. Nice job BHVR
I mean two wrongs dont make a right, and you shouldn't have been harassing back. But in no way you deserved to get banned for that! And at the very LEAST, they need to ban the other survivor as well.
Yea new to the game and killer main. Getting my first bully squad was...a thing. Whats worse is every single map. 8 games has been on the same out door map. Idk the name survivors go down in the open. Or away from hooks. Its insane
@@JustaJunkie438 yesss have you ever run for some reson the oni Windows perk ? I did for a fun Bild there Up to 5 or 6 pallets right next to ech other + terribl hitbixes making some Killers unabel to yous there Power
@@Just_a_Cat76 yeah they took the game and made it outside, except I prefer the game cause at least I can break all the loops and it doesn’t have a shack, eerie just has seemingly infinite pallets and windows to top it off
@@JustaJunkie438 yeah but the Game has over 70 pallets so i prever mac Millan or even cold Wind i Main bubba and the tomsen House can realy be on your Side If you know what your doing
I remember ppl saying how they nerfed Dead Hard back in the day and i tried playing again with my favorite killer Ghost Face, i remembered to always leave stay away from the person i just hooked, always go after the person who saved the hooked person instead of the hooked one, i got worried if i left someone on the floor for too long... and at the end i got 0 kills, and 4 survivors at the gate staring at me, waiting for me to attack them so they could leave, i did what they wanted so we could finish the game. In the end i remember being frustrated all the time and had a accelerated heart rate not from how awesome the match was, but from pure stress. Took me 2 games to uninstall the game again, i think all main killers should just stop playing this game, and have the main survivors be toxic among themselves since they'd be forced to play killer
years of tbag made me a psycopath, now I play full tryhard mostly as skull merchant, and ignoring all the fake survivor rules like camping, tunneling etc
Honestly, the tunneling & slugging spree _started_ way back in 7.5.0 when BHVR thought it would be a good idea to put a hard-limit on gen-regression, effectively killing every slowdown perks that didn't give good value per activation (like Pop and Pain Res, both of which recently got even further nerfed, Pop into near-uselessness) and making the game incredibly more stressful for weaker/M1 Killers that simply don't have the mobility and/or lethality to deal with efficient Survivors. That change basically made no difference to the powerhouses (Billy, Blight, Nurse, Spirit etc.) but was a _serious_ blow to Killers like Trapper, Nemesis, Pig (poor her), Doctor, Demo and others. When Pop & Pain Res, the last two viable choices, got nerfed, it cemented tunneling/slugging & camping as the go-to strategy for most Killers, creating the boring and annoying state we are currently in.
It started a bit ago I agree but you'd still get most matches that weren't slugging and tunnelling the moment the match starts. Nerfing pop pain Res was the final straw for alot of people playing killer (myself included) since there is no other way to gain pressure when you want to play killers who can't have super fast chase times back to back.
I'm a nurse main for the reason of being gen rushed every game as any other killer but I see why the kick limit was added as I play a little bit of survivor I think the issue all just boils down to 3 gens as always but instead of trying to deal with that they nerf all gen regression 😊
Remember when borrowed time also gave endurance to the person that unhooked the survivor on the hook. Fun times. Having to hit the survivor going for the unhook 3 times was something.
well, that's just false. OG borrowed time gave the unhooker and unhooked survivor the endurance effect ONLY if the unhooker was in the terror radius, and once activated, the perk deactivated for the rest of the trial. + old mending didn't exist, after 40 seconds the survivor would go down no matter what if it didn't get healed by someone or by themself. + the screen turned black and White.
@@DanoCDA You are correct. I might not have fully thought things through on the exact way it worked and how I worded it. But the idea was still there to get that survivor out. It was powerful and really something to deal with for killers of that time. Maybe not OG nurse perhaps. 40 seconds was still quite a bit of time as well. But a good team could make some real work out of that perk in those times.
I feel like as a survivor you’re just looking around for one person and you can be working on one gen for a long time while the killer is on the look out for four people … though … I wouldn’t really know I played killer once as trapper but most time I play dbd with my friend which … we almost always play survivor bill squad together so … if that’s the reason then lucky guess lol
Because survivor gameplay is literally holding a single button and hitting skill checks when you're not being chased. If you're getting chased, gens feel like they take forever because you need to be focusing on the chase. If you're the one doing gens, they feel like they take forever because you're on the verge of falling asleep. There is no happy medium because you're either focused on getting chased or you're about to fall asleep from boredom hence gens feel like they take forever.
This is exactly how I feel whenever I load into a lobby as killer and see two or more toolboxes, if I don't have slowdown, I get my ass handed to me. Then because I'm stressed, I can't lay correctly because three gens pop before I can even get my first down. And then I have people telling me in my stream to "not be upset" to which I always respond with, as you said in your video, "So you'd rather go against the Comp Nurse or Blight with Quad slow-down every match? Because that is what will happen if "weaker" killers keep getting shadow nerfed through perks being changed to "hamper" the highteir killers.
I was playing my second game as nurse against a 4 man with saloon offering, i was sweating my ass off just to get a 4 man escape and guess what they did after the Game? They ddosed me. Like seriously? I was shocked to see the extent of power trips survivors want to get over killers. Its one of the reasons i dont actively play dbd anymore
Games aren’t fun when it’s all about winning. I play fighting games and a lot of the fun is found in just playing around. A lot of people in the FGC are just hanging out and don’t really care if they win (not until money is on the line).
8:20 This made me think... Why does the UI not show each survivor's hook states to killer? What advantage would it give to them, slightly less counting?
Baffles me when you hear "Uuumm, actually I've played Killer and it's super easy I 4k every game" when in reality they have played maybe 20 games against the lowest possible MMR
@@julianrosado1592 Having to rely on meta perks and S tiers isnt an argument for why a role is "easy", it literally proves that you need to play the best to even have a chance of winning against competent people, because how dare killers have variety and not get rewarded as much.
@@julianrosado1592 That's great if you're a meta sweatlord with no personality; but for those of us who want to enjoy our favorite B-through-D tier Killers and use fun, interesting perk builds, it becomes insanely tedious once you start facing experienced Survivors and/or sweaty meta perk Survivors. That's like saying "Elden Ring is easy, just use Moonveil". Like, yes thank you, I know where the Win Button is, but I'm not playing the game for the sole purpose of seeing the victory screen.
Thank you for finally being the one to point out that slowdowns are necessary for most killers in most cases. I try to play nice as much as a can but when people block me or just do gen next to me under the assumption that "oh they hooked me last therefore I can just crank a ton of gen progress free next to them" I kinda have to go after them, and I HATE doing that because I DON'T ENJOY TUNNELING, but sometimes you HAVE TO, I also HATE slowdown perks, I wanna run cool shit, things that make the game more interactive, or let me do silly unexpected stuff, but I CAN'T. Doesn't help I like lower power killers mostly either.
Probably gonna get flamed for this, but every couple months when I check in on DBD and see stuff like this, it reminds me of how much less stressed I've been since I uninstalled... back in 2018... Like, god damn, its been six years since I left, and Behavior STILL can't do SHIT to balance the game, discourage toxicity, and generally make the game a good experience for casual play.
That's such a mood. I really miss the casual play I had back when I was low ranked, but gods are the survivor perks bullshit in higher ranked games. This is supposed to be a horror themed game, nobody should be actively *trying* to be attacked by the killer.
Remember, is one person agaist 16 perks. One person agaist 4 items. One person agaist 20+ pallets. We have to start thinking about what is really "unfair".
I just recently found out the thinking mistake they make! Its math! The people that think this Game is Killer biased think: "5 Players in a Game, it is 20% per Player". That is wrong! This Game is asymetrical! 1 Game is 100% 50% Killer 50% Survivor but we have 4 Survivors! So each Surv has a worth of 12,5%! THAT is the right match, that should be base of ALL Balance changes of this Game! it is 50% vs 4 x 12.5% not 5 x 20%!
survivor perks are usually pretty weak compared to killer perks but its when they sync and tryhard when things get boring...if the survivors are casuals, the game is actually fun but when you get the I DONT CARE IF I DIE I JUST WANNA GEN RUSH players that are the issue
I think one thing a survivor did that pissed me off to just slug him was running to the corner of the map so his slight anti-carry build would just not let get to any hook. like the only way to get anything done is to slug at that point.
From my understanding it’s more of a game balance issue and baggage issue. Game balance in the sense that since killers got their recent slowdowns nerfed (these perks being what felt like mandatory perks at the higher MMRs) killers now feel more inclined to build pressure in other forms like tunneling camping and slugging. Then comes the baggage. Let’s be real, no one wants to play nice after getting sent to Badham 3 games in a row by the sweaty 4 man BNP SWFs that t-bag at the exit gates and cal u slurs in the chat. A lot of players take that baggage into the next game onto what could possibly be a nice and innocent team of survivors. I’m not defending anyone, I understand why both sides sweat and why both sides feel miserable playing the side they play. Personally, I just don’t care anymore. I’m not incentivized to sweat when I play both sides and 2k hours later I don’t feel like I have to prove to anyone that I’m good at the game, I’m gonna use DBD for what video games are meant to be, that being entertainment. Sorry for the yap, have a great day
Just spend a day letting survivors 4-man out. They get to be happy (whether you care about that part is optional) and you get to lower your MMR. Win-Win.
@@ThedreadrogueYT I'm going to do a experiment by playing 20 games tomorrow. Where I will play without tunneling, slugging, and trying my best to not kill survivors. Also not look like I'm a friendly killer, and see how many games I will be riduculed by survivors at the exit gates.
yeah yeah, shut your yap. your understanding is flawed cuz youre no longer invested in the meta. the meta is where the problems lie and what causes players particular behaviors.
@@asakfs2791 First two weeks I started dbd I only watched timer till the last second every game, I was trying to learn basics and they taught me well. 👍🏻 I just feel good when something bad happens to my enemies 😁 and survivors making up arbitrary rules about "good" killers is so cringe 😂 I think the only people falling for that bs are those who get gaslighted by 4 survivors, anyone with dignity doesnt care about people who hate him
As a killer main this is literally painfully true behavior has been drowning us in a bathtub for most of the game and then when we finally get a chance to breathe they start drowning us again because the survivor Mains aren't having fun and can't bully The Killers
i play like a decent human being and often even let the last survivor go if they are a good sport. until i get tbagged and taunted. Then i slug, tunnel and any other means necessary to make sure that they absolutely do not escape. I think thats fair
@Pikochabi the game is catered for the survivors. It's so obvious. They nerf everything for the killer and buff everything for survivor, as explained in the video. The game was made for survivors by survivors basically. Killer used to be fun. Now you gotta play like your mom's life is on the line
Small opinion here. I think that taking a protection hit should count as a conspicuous action and should cancel out DS. But bring the stun time back to 5s. I don’t think you should be able to use it offensively.
The thing is about 11:02 is that the devs prefer to play the toxic killer play styles. They like to hop on dbd after not playing for months, get a 4k, and hop off. They like those play styles. They like it the way it is
10:15 indie game dev here so basically game devs are gods of the game so if game is boring they are responsible for it because they create that boring situation rewarding. You cant expect gamers to give you solution gamers are not always good with solution because same gamers do boring stuff if it rewarding. Solution is caring about the game you making. But now we have lots of "game developers" that do not care about their game really
Another issue, is that some killers are more fine tuned to the current game play style compared to older killers, like trapper, who is probably one of the most interesting ones to play because of the strategic mindset you have to have (in my opinion), but is left in the dust because so much is actively working against him compared to others.
It's so refreshing to see a true 50/50 main give an insight as to why killers play the way they do since survivor mains that have never touched killer are the very loud majority
What people dont realize is that even if a survivor is playing for fun, they still have to progress the game when they cant be chased or their teammates will. As a killer if you relax and play chill then 3 other survivors are on gens and could care less that you didnt bring slowdown. They have nothing else to do and they want to win. So why play for fun when the other side ruins it? So eventually you just wanna win or at least bring perks to slow the game down so you dont have to sweat. But regardless this community sucks and so wveryone gets upset no matter what. When i play i just play it to win now, if i can tunnel i will. Cuz i know i csnt be laid back or else ill get taunted and that shit annoys me
Ive played both sides for years gotten all the achievements and done it all. Id say for me it boils down to juat how people define a win and fun. For me just having fun with my build the players my challenge or friends. You cant 4 man outs or killa every match so go dont in the mind set that you need to get them. Going in with a relaxed mind set mixing up perks away from the meta makes it alot more fun and does throw people on both sides off and a shocking amount of people do repect the perk change up. A no mither build and end game build are my favorites.
I’m still waiting for them to make Call of brine usable again. It’s such a shame they nerfed a perfectly balanced perk and crushed it all because of bad killer design. I just want my gen regression back 😭
Yea it's just an information perk now. There are some niche use cases like as Nemi the notification will attract zombies or knight it works well since you can send his guard on the gens. But in general it's useless on most killers which hurts me alot because when I first started playing the game it was my gen regression perks of choice since I didn't have many killers.
I was running a meme build on killer and I only had 4 hooks endgame which was fine bc again, meme build. However a TTV and 3 other randoms were clicking their flashlights and bagging at the gate. I didn’t do anything toxic so I was confused. Their builds were meta. DH DS etc. But if I ran double or triple gen regress and won, I would’ve gotten messaged. It’s wild out here.
Maybe cuz survivor do gens in 5 minutes plus all the gen regression nerfs so that's why killers playing the way they do they don't have a choice if they wanna win
People need to understand tgat slugging is viable when its not all four down, even three down is smart. You donr throw the game to get the hook letting everyone get up.
you also dont pick up when you know someone is flash saving people go against a flash light squad then are shocked when they arent able to get any hooks, because instead of slugging they keep picking up the downs. Then they cry bully squad. I really feel like people just are not playing properly
@@FemboyKaiSaku Slugging is actually not a fun playstyle to everyone and the objective of the game for the killer is hooking survivors. Flashlight squads are unhealthy for the game in the way that they ruin the experiences of new killers trying to do what the game tells them to while experienced killers will slug and ruin the experience of new survivors to play around them. It's a lose-lose scenario.
@@Lovyxia how is slugging a bully squad and getting multiple downs not fun? I always find it fun going against those squads because you have to switch up your playstyle and get multiple downs, idc if its not fun for the survivors lol. When i play survivor if im going for flash saves i expect the killer to slug, thats how you counter it Your point that it makes things more difficult for noobs, yeah of course it does. Because this game is not noob friendly. What about looping? a core mechanic of the game that you need to know to be able to survive, but the game doesn't tell you anything about it. So if survivors dont really know how to loop, low mmr killers vs low mmr survivors, usually the killer has a higher advantage. plus in low MMR you aren't going to get bully squads like this often. Yea it happens but thats just how online games are. Its the devs fault for not explaining how to play
I've been playing for about 3.5 years, this video is pretty much on point. It's not killers all getting together and deciding to play "sweaty", it's just what the meta is right now. Almost every gen regression perk is the weakest they have ever been, and there is now entity blocking preventing playing around 3-gens. Gen speed perks and items still give a massive benefit with little to no extra effort required by survivors. DS is bugged and stuns some killers for nearly 6 seconds and has not been killswitched. Perks like Adrenaline (which is currently the most popular it's ever been) and Hope actively punish killers who try to spread pressure and go for late-game plays instead of tunneling. And, like the video said, there are a bunch of perks like Deliverance or OTR or Reassurance that benefit survivors when they get hooked, so it's no surprise some people opt to slug instead. Additionally, the anti-facecamp timer and basekit BT make rescues essentially free unless it's end game or survivors refuse to heal. These are the gameplay changes a lot of people wanted, and now that they're actually in the game and killers have to play differently to counter them, people are still blaming others and making excuses for why they lose. It's a classic example of "be careful what you wish for."
Maybe my MMR is low or something because I don’t encounter “tournament level” killers. Games feel normal to me. Been playing the game for over 4 years and play killer 60% of the time and survivor 40%. I got every achievement so I got a good understanding of every killer’s power, maps, and survivor perks. I still get goofy killers and I still have fun times with meme builds as killer.
There are so many fun builds out there. Like illusion doctor with insidious. There is allot of fun to be had in this game. But. When you are a bit competitive or wish to compete. Do something against what seem to be stronger survivors. You slowly might start nudging to run the more powerful and ''meta'' perks along the way. It does try to worm itself in there. After all for many killer can be frustrating.
During the anniversary event i got it a lot, killers tunnelling the first person they hooked, slugging for 4ks etc. It got bad enough that i stopped bringing screech cobblers all together
I try and make sure I play hard but fair, since that's how I have fun. Usually it's a 2 or 1 out, sometimes I get unlucky or they pull off a good play and they manage a 4 out. I personally think this is how a match should be like. However, for some ungodly reason, a lot of manipulative people with ego issues chose the almost powerless guy who runs from the big scary guy over being the big scary guy. They complained and complained, and eventually they got an inch, and they ran a mile. I hate how survivor sided this game is forced to be because of the players being unable to "suck it up" like how they force killers to do so many god damned times every match. EX: To efficiently and effectively tank a pallet stun, one of many to evade the killer, we need to sacrifice 2 perk slots to run two very specific perks that do not serve any other purpose. In order to tank a hit, survivors have: mettle of man, we're gonna live forever, basekit borrowed time, dead hard, off the record. ONE perk, out of 16 possible perks they can have in 1 game to tank a hit in any situation (some have a prerequisite that makes them balanced), and one of them is fucking basekit. This is, apparently, perfectly balanced. And I'd say, for like three of those examples, yeah, it is. But the fact that it's that little is not good.
@@smithbabies7886 agreed. Honestly endurance should be a rare occurrence, so many perks have it for sometimes no discernable reason. It's the same with Haste perks honestly. If you mess up you should be punished, if your team messes up they should be punished, not getting to tank hits for free. I did think about a solution maybe, what if tanking hits with endurance made you broken instead of making you mend? That way it's an actual risk, as you cannot heal easily for a bit. But then again, maybe that would encourage tunneling? I don't really know Either way I agree with your points
oh my god, i literally mentioned on stream two says ago that diminishing returns should be implemented as a way to fix certain aspects of the game. I love that you mentioned that. You understand that it'd be a great idea
In my first game as killer i had two survivors who would constantly blind me with flashlights, flashbangs blast mine and sabotage hooks in front of my face while running boil over and streetwise to keep using their items. After getting zero kills i of course got tbagged and this just makes the experience for new killers the worst.
For me the biggest problem on DBD are the SWF, this game was not created around 4 survivors communicating throughout the game, they are also the most toxic of all because in my case when I start to beat them as Killer they simply let themselves win or disconnect, screwing the game to the other survivor/s who are playing alone. I would like people who play in SWF to have some penalty like repairing slower or having their auras revealed to the killer from time to time to combat them being on a Discord call.
The thing is, most swfs are not good. You go against four man's or three man's all the time because they're casual players tbat are etiehr not great or don't care if they win. The sweaty swfs that abuse meta perks and bully killers are a minority, which really woudlnt be hindered by such implementations.
Actually behavior said they were going to keep voice chat at launch of the game but decided to take it out to avoid the CoD lobby experience... But for some reason there's a type in game chat xD
At least for me that take doesnt make any sense bc im playing with my friends who have less hours than i do. I have significantly higher winrate in soloq than when im playing with them because guess what there are actually casual players who just wanna have fun in this game
@archbishopofthecrusades9579 dude I literally got an anti hook swf. They were literally asking for slugging. They brought offerings to make the hook separately and perks and perks to recover faster on the ground
As someone who plays both.. survivors do this too. They Gen rush, abuse perks, bring map offerings every other game, and run straight to shack first chase.
you mean sbmm, yeah its like saying here is a fun party game, but we also want to have a pie from thoose dota folks. The fun cas guy and the 4k hour sweatlord will not have a pleasent talk.
I've seen a lot of people say this but I think that it would've happened sooner or later regardless of it. The more familiar people get with a game the more they can create strategies to do things more effectively. Just look at what happened to the Texas Chainsaw game. At that point it's not about being sweaty it's about being human. We love finding ways to make our tasks easier / more effective.
fantastic vid, really hit the nail on the head and alot of these issues have to do with the patch style that blizzard uses where whoever shouts "thats unfair" the most gets taken seriously
I think the per killer mmr is a problem, I’m not that good at the game and constantly get placed against insane high hour players who are on a new killer, and of course we get stomped because most of killer isn’t just their power. It ruins the survivor experience a lot. I also agree that gens are too fast but slowdown and regression just feels like shit, trying to do a gen while the killers 4 slowdown perks make it keep exploding and blocking itself is so boring and annoying. Lose lose situation
It's actually the low ceiling on MMR being an issue. Your killer MMR has a maximum range of how much lower it can be when you play killers you never or rarely played to make sure you don't count as a new player when in reality you're an experienced killer trying out an new one. The problem is that the MMR system has 3 categories of players and once you're in the good player bracket, which is extremely easy to get into, you can get anyone from decent players to the sweatiest tryhards on the planet in order to have the queue times as absurdly low as they are. With gens I think the game just needs more objectives for survivors to do for variety. Spending a lot of time on gens is boring to survivors but when they go too fast there's barely a game being played as well.
If there was a separation between a casual and a comp like queue, then killers as well as survivors would be tempted to try out new and less sweaty builds in the former category while the comp queue would be like what the game feels right now.
as someone who plays primarily survivor, thank you for this video, it was very well put-together and i appreciated your insight! i have noticed that when i do try and play killer that unless i run mostly gen regression i don't stand a chance, and i often end up against survivor bully squads. it's so unfortunate that people can't just enjoy the game without feeling frustrated by various mechanics. survivors don't like being slugged but killers also don't like being unable to hook - i've been on both sides and neither is fun!
There's a big problem here and it comes from bhvr communication to players, killers think it's a winning way when they are slugging when is not If a survivor bleeds out, the killer doesn't get hook points and even loses points for each survivor killed by bleeding out, so in a match where all the survivors bleed out it's the same as the killer doesn't kill anyone, BUUUUT because the icon is the same as being moried killers think that it is a factible way of killing but they get punish every time and don't notice
So AFAIK you won't get as many points but the game still classes it as a win because MMR is based entirely on kills. All those points do is go towards your rank not your MMR so you can gain MMR while not gaining ranks. I say this as someone who mains Sadako where most of my kills are moris at 0-1 hooks where I'll generally get 1-2 in a match and I'm still at the top MMR as her (if I only played sadako during a split when you could depip I literally couldn't level past gold because I got so few hookstates). Also most killers don't really care about points they just care about getting the kill and they'd rather lower bloodpoints but guarantee the 3k from slugging rather than risk not getting the kills but gain the extra hook states. (Those who do will generally hook 1 person then proxy camp them to make sure they don't 4% then when they go 2nd or die go hook someone else and rinse repeat).
@@JCglitchmaster true,also true that the win screen when getting 4k for slug is like a win being extremely misleading, on personal experience got against a twin whit knock out and what it do is down survivors and camp them over Victor, it managed to get 4k but when i checked the scores it barely got 10-11 points and all survivors and i where 20+ points, no miss to say it was awful to just wait your meter to run out or extend the time by getting up and downed by victor instantly
I think you have to also look at how meta killers affect the survivor meta, both metas build each other, and the survivor meta has more limits, because if you make a alternative build there's a not minor chance you're gonna get a killer or worst a perk that can be used by any killer that counter said build, for example any build that require a moment of stealth will get countered by countless info perks, powers and add ons, and that happen for other builds, healing builds being countered by tunneling, plague, and legion, overcome based builds being counter by instadowns, hit and run, and sniper builds.
I hate to be that guy, but... It's true if you make a full build around the idea of a certain way of playing, it can get full countered. A big however comes from when you have to remember it is 1vs4 and the chances of finding that specific combo to make a build completely inurt keeps getting slimmer and slimmer, where as killer mains have a much higher chance at running into these builds because there are more players to deal with. That's why when I encountered the meta get yourself off the shoulder of the killer and pick themselves up build, I switched to Oni with Agitation and Iron grasp to kick it in the balls for next time. I'd rather not, but it was necessary to secure any kills.
I have reached killer main acceptance by just giving up one of my perks for lightborn. Even if none of the survivors are running flashlight I still take it. Screw blast mines, screw flashbangs. It’s liberating to be able to knock someone down and just, *pick them up* . I love it
The one thing I've always pointed out, is no matter how hard BHVR nerf gen regression perks, it will never fix the issue with them, people can and will still use gen regression in mass or play in ways that are less fun. It does nothing but make the problem worse. Killers right now have less options than ever, and the most builds that are 'viable' still have glaring issues with them, people will always choose the path of least resistence, which is either playing 4 gen stall tunnelling right out the gate, or slugging everyone to death. Now that's not to say gen speeds are the issue, its quite the opposite. I think gens as they are right now is perfectly fine, and this is coming from a killer main that adamantly refuses to run gen stall only ever bringing ONE on a killer I am less comfortable with or need something very specific, wether it be a tome challenge or a specific daily killer ritual I'm really bad at doing. I will personally still die on this hill, the problem with gen speeds are the perks that allow gens to go faster, thats right, I'm ignoring toolboxes for the most part and gen speeds without items, as its mostly subjective and I'm not in enough of a position to argue whether they are too strong or too weak, since I mostly play without items, though I still think the commodious has no rights being better than the mechanics + purple toolbox. Toolboxes ONLY become an issue when combined with specific perks, which are becoming more common place than ever. For example. Deja Vu is personally a prime example, it was a rushed out the door addressment to 3 genning before the regression limit was ever put in place, in my personal opinion, its overstayed its welcome, it served its purpose but its been left as is. Stake out seems to get a lot of vitriol especially when combined with perks like hyperfocus, but for me I think its fine, if it were to be tweaked I think bumping up the time to gain a token to 25 seconds would be a decent middle ground without removing what it does. Hyperfocus on its own much like stake out, is fine, because its very hard to maintain those maximum stacks due to how fast and laggy skillchecks can get with it, but when combined with stakeout and toolboxes, its way too damn fast. Resilience, Now coming from someone who used to be a vault build enjoyer, I still think resilience is fine-ish, I don't think it should be rewarding you with gen speed for staying injured, because in my experience, its caused me to lose more games than escaping them from my teammates over-relying on resilience to get gens done. I could go on with a lot more perks to name, but I'm not gonna make this comment any longer than it needs to be, I just think that perks that offer increased gen speeds either need to be toned down without completely butchering them and making them unviable, or BHVR needs to start reworking and tweaking more survivor perks so survivors feel less of a need to bring builds to counter act 4 gen stall andy's + slug boyo's before they can get the ball rolling. Resilience is the only one I wouldn't change let alone nerf substantially, since its one of the few where its effect is minimal but has a massive risk on top of it, but some perks have way too much of a benefit to outweigh its risk compared other options. Either give gen progression perks a penalty for their usage or tone them down, that's how I see it really, whilst at it buffing up or reworking niche, unusable or down right bad survivor perks that never see any application.
When people talk about gen speeds, generally they are in fact talking about the myriad perks and toolbox options, which are the actual problem. It happens all too often that I can't even end a chase before a gen pops, or even two, because they just fly by way too fast. Bardic Inspiration is definitely not helping matters either, as with just a little luck it can essentially turn good skill checks into great skill checks, and great skill checks into greater skill checks. I'm still trying to find out whether it stacks with Stake Out, but it knocks a lot of time off of gens regardless. And then there's BNP and Weaving Spiders, which *permanently* knock a chunk off the gens that killers have no way of regressing...
Maybe I can get on board with hyperfocus and stakeout together being an issue but deja vu only saves 5 seconds of a 90 second generator and resilience the perk that saves more only saves 8 but requires you to put yourself in a worse position for using its benefit so when people complain about those perks I really do not understand the issue there. Maybe the stacking of the 2 saving 13 seconds could be problematic but the more they stack these perks the less they can have to actually use in chase. Again hyperfocus stack out is problematic but the other ones I feel is a stretch.
@@AJRobin-qi5vu If they're focusing on gens then they obviously aren't going for chases. They also usually stack these perks with strong toolboxes and addons to speed it up even further, and will sometimes double team a gen to blast it out before you've got one down. "But then they haven't pressured other gens" you might say, however, the killer can't regress already finished gens.
@@Duothimir I get that I just think its weird that people think deja vu and resilience is the problem when resilience requires you to play risky to get the benefit (especially with sloppy in the mix) and dejavu is literally only 5 seconds off a gen. Also double teaming a gen gives slowdown even more effect so if the survs are doing that they are probably not playing efficiently. I really wish we were able to see more of the chucky video with that gen that was at 80 but I would think if they were that far on the gen in 1 minute of gameplay 2 of the survs we likely on that gen meaning 3 gens wouldn't pop fast which is the worst case scenario.
i honestly think they need to add a pressure gage where the more a gen gets done and if there's more then 1 gen being done then the survivors suffer from high gen pressure as the entity trys to fight their repair efforts if you have 2 gens at 50 repair then all gens take a 25% negative to repairs until their lowered on repairs to reset the pressure the main idea is to slow global gen pressure and force either focusing on 1 gen or tank a entity slowing you down
This summarized the current balance state of the game better than anything else I've ever seen imo. Something that further worries me is the completely insane buff Babysitter is about to get which will make it *another* extremely powerful "anti-tunneling" perk that's sole purpose is to run straight at the killer with because you know you're invincible. All of the nerfs and changes over the last year or so have made it extremely difficult if not nearly impossible to play weak killers at max MMR-- the only way to make up for the lack of formerly decent perks on already bad killers is unfortunately to play sweaty and that makes me feel like an ass so I don't do it and instead I've just dropped a tonnn of killers I used to really like because they're too weak now. Nemesis used to be my #1 killer and I absolutely never use him now because 3 hits is wayyy too slow in modern DBD world. I use to love Ghostface as well and unfortunately an M1 killer without any chase ability is completely worthless at max MMR so I just can't play him. Because of these changes and extremely strong perks on the survivor side too I'm absolutely seeing more killers play sweaty from the beginning of the match because it's the only way they can keep up if we sweat. If the killer is nice and the survivors are sweating the killer will lose and 90% of the time I see multiple teammates teabagging at the gates just to rub it in. So as much as it sucks to be tunneled at the beginning of the game I'm starting to be less angry and more just sad because I know the killer would likely have a miserable experience if they didn't tunnel me :/
Sadly, unless you're playing a killer who has a very aggressive slugging or slowdown focused power you're almost always forced to run 2-3 slowdown perks to stand a chance against the best survs :/
Honestly this is why I just headon on Survivor. The game has gotten way to sweaty. Both sides are making it worse. I try to get 100 headons a night. I set a goal and do everything to get the headons. I know im not making it out the game and with this pressure gone its all about working together to get more headons. Most killers I go up against respect and like what we are doing.
I don't read patch notes. Went up against a 4 stack of survivors running Sabo and wiggle builds and I slugged them all to death instinctively once I caught on.
I do 2 things : 1.Slug everyone to death and the last one I hook to make some bp. 2.I camp from far away with Hillbily and the chainsaw revved at 90% constantly. WHY? Because when I tried to play normal, survivors would constantly bully me by destroying hooks, camping me while I pick survivors up to instantly flashlight me. Also what do you do when you find the recently rescued survivor and there is nobody in the area? Oh sure, you can't put them down cause they have "anti tunneling protection". No, I refuse to give survivors a good experience. I will abuse the game and make this the worst unpleasant experience for them.
That's kinda the problem with dbd. A survivor tbags a killer. The killer becomes toxic to the next survivors. The next survivors are mad and they become toxic to the next killer. It's just a cycle at this point.
Before i stopped playing this game, what i did if i was ever killer is during the lobby i looked at the player levels, and memorised the model they used, i would 100% ignore the highest level character unless they body blocked and priorities the lowest score
Do you wanna know why we play like a tournament, because survivors have gotten so strong that every game win or lose is a complete stress fest, killers have to be locked in 99.9% of the time to even have a half a chance at getting just one kill. You can’t even experiment with perks anymore, if you’re not playing specific perks, you just straight up do not win, you just straight up get bullied by every single squad. I’ve seen literal games where when survivors get to 2 Gens left, they just leave the rest of the gens to one or two people and everyone else goes and bullies the killer. That’s the #1 reason I quit Dead By Daylight…I don’t want to be constantly stressed while playing Videogames!!!!
Secondary Point…slugging isn’t even that reliable since every Overbeck has Unbreakable, and any beamer(Flashlight Main) worth their salt has For The People, there is literally a million ways for survivors to escape a disadvantage state in this game.
I used to play this game around the time that the clown was added. The perk that allowed you to struggle free off the killer and the dash perk were already seen as perks that gave survivors extra lives. Generators already had a problem that they could be finished minutes after a match started. It's insane this is still an issue.
Yesterday I was playing with two friends, having fun and running meme builds (I was literally running Chemical Trap, Champion of Light, Windows and that one Haddie perk that gives blindness), we were losing every match but atleast we were having fun. That was until a Doctor came in, with Knock Out, the deer perk that lets you see downed survivors, ruin and the perk that makes your terror radius bigger. He didn't hook ANYONE, he started downing us, camping the downed person until they were rescued or bled to death and we were so BORED and totally fed up cause we couldn't do anything, not even loop cause he was just camping us so we couldn't get picked up nor bring him to the other side of the map. We gave up and had to wait the whole 4 minutes so we bled out, and the guy had the guts to say "gg"? Bruh. Also, just to clarify, me and my friends probably have pretty low MMR (we don't play to escape) and we still get matched with pretty try hard killers that run meta perks and just make some games miserable by camping the first person hooked at 5 gens, or stop a chase with someone injured just to come back to hook and tunnel the sh*t out of the unhooked person... And we refuse to run the same exact anti tunnel/anti camp perks just because killers decide to be an a*hole and so we can't use the perks we want to have fun with :( I'm just saying that I know survivors can sometimes make matches that are impossible to win, but atleast you are still playing the game as a killer, looping and hooking, etc. When killers play the slugging, camping or tunneling game there's no game to be played cause it's just SO BORING I literally grab my phone and start playing games on it until the match ends... We ended up so exhausted from that game that we stopped playing for that day...
My survivor mmr is interesting because high tier killers are always derpy or new while low tier killers tend to be impossibly sweaty. Needless to say i have a relatively low mmr because I'm p bad. My killer experience is that i rarely go against a team that knows how to play as a team, and for the most part after two gens the survivors I play against just fall apart. Fun video!
As a Killer main, I play Survivor due to experiencing the other side of the tracks... that and get into their mindset so I know what to expect. As for Slugging, it is a strategy. Same goes for Survs that go Sabo/Boil Over. I'll slug a little to apply pressure, and use that time to push Gens or Hook saves.
@shenelljohnson74 If a solo que player doesn't have those tools? Hard to tell if someone is the odd man out in a SWF, but I play normal with them...if a light slug to secure another down is warranted then go for it!
I am a casual player, and i play 99% of my games as a killer. Seriously tunneling is the only way i feel like i have a shred of chance, why? If i can eleminate 1/4 players, it will boost my chances significantly. Finding and downing a player in the first 30-40 seconds is something i would consider a really good job. If i did that it would be down to luck because i went the right way as a killer. And its not uncommon for me that the survivors almost have, or already have done a generator before i even spot the first survivor. At that point they are done with 20% of the objective before i can do anything. Of course i want to eliminate a player to even the odds. I wonder though if slugging is a better tactic. Hmmm
do you think basekit corrupt intervention would be a good idea? i think it would be a good start since the hardest time to get pressure as a killer is when the game starts and you have to find people, its kinda sad when you get an insanely quick first chase and down and 3 gens still pop anyways, it really breaks your mental for the rest of the match aswell
That’s the issue. Bhvr keeps giving us bandaid fixes like making perks basekit. They just need to redesign the whole generator system. They need to pull an operation health like Rainbow Six.
That would partially solve it but the core mechanic of the game is flawed. Gen regression perks are a bandaid to that. Any good killer going against a good team will lose 3 gens from 1 chase. This is where gen regression perks come in to mitigate that and prevent this. The core issue of the game is that when the game begins the killer will naturally be in the worst position as they have absolutely no pressure on the survivors whereas spawning in as a survivor u can spawn right next to a gen which immediately puts pressure onto the killer(this doesn’t factor in things to mitigate this like Corrupt on killer or a strong toolbox on the survivor side)
I’m a hillybilly main and I use plaything, bamboozle, bbq, and floods of rage for perks and for addons I’ll use the following 4 depending on how I’m feeling about the lobby apex muffler, iridescent engravings, spiked boots, and lopro. And I’ve have won many games and I’d say I have pretty high mmr but I don’t ever go out of my way to tunnel and camp before end game. And you can say I’m versing bots but I’m prestige 43 on Billy and I’ve only have lost maybe 5 to 10 games getting there. And what I’d consider loss is anything below 6 hooks.
Babysitter buff is coming, now killers cannot tunnel even if they wanted to, 30s haste only to catch upto surv and then one hit and surv will run away due to endurance I assume after babysitter buff a lot of killers will slug, so counter to this is running we'll live forever to pickup the slugged survivors as well
The crux of the issue is the devs nerfing/buffing perks + items on both sides based on usage rates without thinking about WHY these perks were being used so much over others. The 2022 perk changes were the start of this and things have only gotten worse since. -Ruin having 200% regression should have never been changed. This perk, even if the hex was found early, always extended the match because almost everyone in solo queue would forsake gens to go searching for the totem. This gave the Killer time to find Survivors and start their first chase with some assurance that gen progress wouldn't get out of hand. -Thanaphobia back when each injured Survivor incurred a 5% penalty. I know this perk was straight asinine in the hands of Legion and Plague, but outside of those two, this perk was incredibly healthy for the game. It rewarded the Killer for going after multiple targets and gave Survivors incentive to heal in order to get rid of the speed penalty (meaning they were not on gens). -Nerfing Survivor healing perks + medkits overall was a terrible decision. Nerf CoH, sure, but everything else was overkill. I started seeing WAAAY more toolboxes in my Killer lobbies following the medkit nerf and I personally don't want to run 3+ gen regression perks just to combat it. The devs have nerfed perks that encourage "healthier" Killers gameplay while also making Survivor side-objectives (healing, totems, boons) less rewarding than before. The result is what we have now: Killers camping, tunneling and slugging at 5 gens or bringing 3-4 regression perks while Survivors bring their best gen rush build to combat this and anyone playing casually on either side will either be teabagged or tunneled out the game respectively.
I agree with a lot of what you said but green medkits were busted af pre nerf. They overnerfed medkits by nerfing all medkits imo but it wasn't an unneeded nerf. Some recent buffs have been good for healing perks so im hoping that trend continues. I love running autodidact, solidarity, resurgence and botany these days.
I couldn't agree more with this random recommended video, but I can't overlook the fact that you play chess merchant. I hate that killer so much I'd rather get slugged every game than to meet her once every 20 games. Skull merchant in my lobby = insta dc
Bro cares more about what someone did/played then the actual discussion at hand trying to put things into prospective of what player experience and why.
