@@NunyaFB443 I'm rich enough that I can rent a room in an inn every single night, even though I have a house nearby. Owning a farm *does* have its advantages.
I mean, Legate Rikke says "Talos be with you" while standing _right next to Tullius,_ and he barely reacts. And according to Hadvar's uncle, Alvor, the smith in Riverwood, the empire pretty much _never_ bothered to enforce the prohibition except in excessively blatant cases - until the Stormcloaks made a ruckus and gave the Thalmor a reason to send their agents up to Skyrim.
Because the ban on Talos worship wasn't an Empire directive. They have no motivation to enforce it, and in truth, you never actually see them doing so in game, apart from removing the shrine of Talos in the Temple in Solitude.
the line that got me to prefer the imperials was easy to miss, but I believe it sets who Tullius is perfectly. when Alduin attacks helgen in the initial shock tulles says "Guards get the townspeople to safety" not only did he react to the situation quickly his first order was to protect civilians over himself.
Hell, if you try to talk to Tullius during the start of the game, he tells you "Run you idiot!" Telling a prisoner he was _seconds_ away from executing to run to safety.
Yeah but it's kinda hard to side with the Empire who was just about to execute you and some other guy for just being in close proximity to the stormcloaks.
*When Tullius is present in the Thalmor Embassy Party, he will go back to Solitude after stating that he can't stand the Thalmor and they just invited him to mock him.*
@@stygiandragon3865 Igrod, Erikur, Ondolemar and Maven are always present. The rest are random but you can force them to attend by opening console and type: -Prid (npc reference id) -moveto player Or Just spawn their clones using "placeatme" console commands. When the NPC is the the party, their dialogues are now available. Make sure you are already friends with them (being a thane for example) so that you can use their distraction.
The intro of Skyrim is actually tremendously well written. Tullius, when he captured Ulfric at Darkwater Crossing, KNEW that the Thalmor would come as soon as they heard Ulfric was captured, take him into their custody, and allow him to "escape" so that they can keep the war going and the Empire distracted. So, he has the prisoners immediately and swiftly transported to Helgen to be executed before the Thalmor can arrive, so that the civil war can end right then and there and allow the Empire to divert it's resources focused on Skyrim back into rebuilding their forces to fight against the Aldmeri Dominion once again.
@LiL Speng Let me try Yeah, executing people without proper trial is a great strategy to end a civil war. Do you really think killing Ulfric this way would end a civil war? (inb4 - killing Tullius shouldn't end it as well, it's just some poor writing, but at least he gets his chance to defend himself)
@LiL Speng And yet, you're still trying to somehow insult me. I had zero points? Did you even read my comment? I said, that Tulius tried to outright murder Ulfric, without giving him a proper trial. That's my point. Do I have to write it in capital letters again or what?
@Doppio Vinegar That's what I say. When the empire are willing to kill innocents just for being at the wrong place, no wonder in return people think that the empire doesn't deserve to exist.
i wanna see this written by someone actually competent at fanfic, but i know that giving a military genius the soul of a dragon would mean it would take a god-tier writer for him not to be a mary sue, lmao
@@Vooman make more internal or familial tension. Maybe his ego grows so large from the successes of the war, but suffers a losing blow at Elswyr, causing him to lose confidence. Idk, just spitting here.
@@Vooman I mean, being a dragonborn doesn't make you OP automatically, sure there are shouts but Tullius wouldn't be dumb enough to do it everywhere and every time, common sense and the trouble he'll stir up plus his position and all that. He'd be a living legend with the Nords and the ranks of the Legion, sure. But he'll still be a general, and quite a target of the Thalmor. Hmm, I'll give this a try sometime.
Sidney Ferreira don’t be stupid, players like him because of his neutral stance and attitude towards his people. Not because he was the first jarl you met.
Lollexick what I did was I had two saves, one where I did the stormcloaks and one where I did the imperials, honestly I moved forward with the imperial one since I felt like ulfric got way too power hungry..
"The Empire is the best chance of humanity against the Aldmeri". Then I remember those invincible imperial guards in Cyrodill when I played TES: Oblivion.
@@cowgod1945 I hunt Thalmor for sport, I think of it as large game. What's a Hold Guard gonna do? Ask if they know me? The Thalmor wield magic, and we all know true Nords are terrified of magic.
@@necroarcanistxiii Hunting Thalmor for sport - indeed. I like keeping the chest in the living room area of the house in Whiterun specifically for trophies I take from Thalmor, Imperial parties, nobles loyal to the Imperials, etc. The average Nord might be no match for the Thalmor, but it's silly to think they're unstoppable. The Stormcloaks could take them, at least in a defensive war. Ulfric talks tough, but he's smart enough to know Skyrim would have to go on the defensive, and he respects the Dragonborn enough by the end of the Rebellion to appreciate their council on the matter. We're given a choice in the war for a reason.
If I remember correctly Legions that were made up of Nords held their ground a lot better against Dominion than the standard imperial legions. To the point that the Nords thought that they were winning even though the other Legions weren't fairing so well. so the Thalmor realized how important the nords are in the next War due to how capable of Warriors they are. Which is why they stirred up a rebellion in Skyrim to remove that factor for the next war.
It also explains why they tried to do the same to Hammerfell. Nords are the most hardy, resilient warriors in Tamriel, but when it comes to organised strength, Redguards are the finest warriors on Nirn. Hell, they're so organised that the Aldmeri Dominion gave up invading them the same way they Daedra gave up invading Black Marsh. They kept getting their ass beat and said "Screw this, I'm going home"
Reading a lot of these comments. I love how this game have been out for almost 9 year's, but there is still a huge discussion about the politics of Skyrim. That's how damn good this game is.
That's a good way to see it I guess. I always saw it more like that's what happens when you make a game and cut out half the content so it takes your fanbase years to piece everything together from what you gave them lol
Ulfric isn't an idiot. He's being led on by the Dominion and thwarted by the Empire. He's prolonging a war that he knows he can't win, in this aspect, he's a lot like Hitler after the Soviet advance into Poland, except he's the one with the support of the local populace and the manpower. Everyone knew the end was near by Bagration, and likewise, even by the start of Skyrim, Ulfric is hesitant to take Whiterun.
@RadTheLad All that was done in response to the age of degeneration that was Weimar. Germany was practically looked down upon by the rest of Europe, and much of the german people, because of the rampant decadence taking the country by storm. Had it been more gradual and pushed into everyone's faces, the things you claim may not have happened.
I always felt bad for the empire in this game because it feels like they’re the unfortunate intern who’s caught up between their overbearing boss and angry customers.
6:40 This is why I respect Tullius. Even mid conversation he finds time to get some fitness in. "Squats help you emphasis the syllables." - General Tullius
Every time I engage the Thalmor patrols or get jumped by their Justicars, the Imperial guardsmen always join and help me. The Empire is bracing itself for another war, Skyrim is just the opening shots
@@echo4428 My headcanon is that the reason the player can, as a high-ranking legionary, disrupt these Thalmor activities with impunity without any reprimand from the Legion is one of two things: 1) The Legion is well aware of what you are doing, and deliberately hides it from the Thalmor because they implicitly encourage it; it weakens their biggest threat and it protects the evident clandestine Talos-worship in the Legion from being discovered. 2) The Thalmor patrols are actually illegal, and in violation of the White-Gold Concordat, which perhaps allowed the Empire to enforce the ban however it saw fit (i.e. not at all until Ulfric publicly kicked off and revealed that the Empire wasn't actually suppressing the Talos cult). In this scenario, the Thalmor know exactly who is doing it (hence why assassins get sent after you from time to time) but they cannot protest to the Legion without revealing that they are violating the terms of the treaty themselves. Either situation gives more credit to the Empire than people give them; in the first case, the Legion is not helping the Thalmor hunt down Talos worship, but tacitly aiding in the disruption of Thalmor operations. In the latter case, the Empire cannot possibly be guilty of allowing the Thalmor to hunt down Talos worshipers as is often claimed, because it is a violation of Imperial law.
My dad and I both play Skyrim, but he always backs the Stormcloaks and I always back the Empire. My reasoning: "The Thalmor are the true threat to humanity and the best chance we have of defeating them is a unified front. Technically the Empire are at peace with them, but there's no way there isn't a plan in the works to overthrow them." My dad: "The Imperials tried to cut off my head and I'm mad 😡"
@@romeohio19 The strongest arguments to join them, imo, is 1. They were sympathetic to you while you were all getting heads cut off, and 2. Religious freedom. But Ulfric is the wrong leader for this. He's charismatic for sure, but he's too focused on the Imperials and not on the Thalmor who forced most of the bad stuff on everyone.
@@rozieredz yep pretty much. Ideally you want an imperial victory, uniting Skyrim. Kick the shit out the the thalmar, throw the white gold concordant in the trash and worship Talos to your hearts content
Let's not forget that Hadvar will help the Dragonborn to escape from Helgen. And also remarks that we aren't on the list, no matter at what we play we could be the local skooma dealing Kajhiit, an undercover Thalmor agent or a Stormcloak, it doesn't matter. So even amongst the imperial legion there are people who aren't blind to the need of the people.
@@Tmanowns u base this on what..? note whos greater ROME or America... u literally cant compare them as they are in two entirely different eras and time dealing with new threats... also note.. talos used "console commands" and "hacks" for mere humans without hacks.. the meads took over a declining empire.. they didnt put it into the state of decline... they also with the baggage they got.. did pretty well and bringing some stability even successfully defending and stopping the aldmeri assult.. yes like it or not.. the thalmor were TOO WEAK to contiune thats why they came to the table... and by the end of skyrim.. the empire already has amassed a bunch of legions on the border ready to go on the offensive... tbh.. all i see is ROME.. it had its ups and down.. near what looked like collaspe to full on domination to what looked like collaspe to full on domination etc etc..
@@InanisNihil why are you talking about Rome? Rome fell too. Rome never lost 2/3s of its territory while managing to recover it. The Mede Empire has completely crumbled to just two and a half provinces. Rome proper never lost that much territory that fast, and whem the Eastern Roman Empire, they literally never recovered from the death spiral.
@@InanisNihil Mede Empire is not connected by Septim by blood. Its becoz that Septim bloodline died a long time ago, the Mede Empire rosed to power. But Mede Empire only made the Empire that Tiber Septim made weaker. Even the Empire in Oblivion is a better condition to what it has become in skyrim. Back then atleast Thalmor didn't dared to wage war with the Empire. So year Mede's Empire is total bullshit to that of Septim's Empire.
@@rahulsar2030 The elves didn't declare war on the septim empire as they had a different goverment that was still friendly. The thalmor only rose to power due to the oblivion crisis
@Kingston Buffalo that is true, but he is a Septim, descendant of Talos Septim. And the current empire is the Septim empire. So to honour him, I shall support the Empire his family started.
@@RonSoloCup true, but it is still considered the Septim empire because it is still thr same empire Tiber Septim started. That's why they still use the dragon as their logo.
To quote every Imperial Legionnaire and Legate/Captain: “What the rebels like to forget is that the Empire's what's keeping the Dominion out of Skyrim.”
Aethewulf yeah but that’s light work compared to Cyrodill the Imperial City doesn’t even have its own guards it’s the Thalmor there are executions almost every day for Talos worshippers the Empire needs Skyrim as Skyrim needs the Empire
The Empire is pretty bad at keeping the Dominion out of Skyrim, considering their justicars roam all around, attacking and abducting people on the slighest hint of them worshipping Talos.
The Best reason to support the Empire comes from Sybille Stentor who sees quite clearly the truth. Ask her why she supports the Empire and she responds, "Because the Dominion is a sleeping beast that Skyrim cannot slay alone. Because many Nords are part of the Imperial army even now. Because the food and resources we get from the Empire are important to our people. Because even if we can't openly worship him, Talos the god was once Tiber Septim the man, and this is his Empire." The good General understands this.
He's a clever old warhorse and I respect him immensely. I was also able to recall that he wasn't the one to order my execution, but that jerkass of a captain, and he was more focused on ensuring the execution proceeded as planned to quickly end the war to worry about a lone prisoner. It was an honour and a privelige to fight alongside him.
The man had balls of Ebody to take in a former assassin like me, dovahkin or not. Yet even on the chopping block they showed this Bosmer more respect than those Talos licking northmen.
And to add to the Captain's incompetence, she should have prioritized the _actual fucking leader_ of the rebellion over a foot soldier and someone who _wasn't even supposed to be there._
Tullius: Well Ulfric, you can't escape from me this time. Any last requests before I send you to... to wherever you people go when you die. Rikke: Sovngarde... sir. Tullius: Right. Well?
@@lelouche25 He really was a shadow out of time, if he'd been born a few decades later in time for the second Great War he'd have been a great choice for High King or even a general in the Imperial army. He's a hot head in a cold war.
I gained a lot of respect four ulfric after the speech he privately gave galmar about fighting so all the fighting he's already done hasnt been for nothing. say what you will about him but I don't see how anyone can say ulfric is just in it for power after that. on a sidenote I have a theory that ulfric isn't as racist as he seems. I mean even though the dark elves aren't super well taken care of he does still allow them in his city. also about the argonians on the docks while it does hit me hard being an argonian main maybe he doesn't hate them. I mean think about it. if brunwulf becomes jarl he'll say something about keeping them on the docks to keep the peace. (sorry can't remember the exact wording) is it possible that ulfric doesn't truly hate them but instead only did what he's done to keep the peace amongst his people who do disdain them? I mean it's hard to focus on and fix these kind of issues when your busy with a war. that and he never shows disgust or hate for the player even if they're an argonian or dunmer.
Another reason I personally respect Tullius; if you start the Civil War questline for the imperials before the thalmor party in the main questline, Tullius will be there, and be very open with the player of his distain for being there, even going so far as to say it's almost enough for him to join Ulfric. He hates the thalmor and knows what they're capable uf, but wise enough to bide his time and unite the people who may not want his help, but desperately need it, weather they know/admit it or not.
Hence why it's incredibly likely the Thalmor assassinate him the moment he's no longer useful in bringing the Stormcloaks to heel. Would be easy to blame it on vengeful Stormcloak remnants. No matter who wins, I have a feeling Tullius doesn't survive the civil war.
@@hellishhybrid1839 Honestly that just means the fact that the empire sent him as the General a better idea, as him stating he's going to stick around in Skyrim for some years imply that he isn't needed anywhere else at that time, and he is clearly on the older side so while the Thalmor assassinating him might hurt if they declared the war then and there in a few years it likely won't even matter anyways.
@@hellishhybrid1839 I see where you're coming from, but it's not that easy. We're talking General Tullius, the man who basically just showed up and won this civil war short of a sudden dragon attack in a matter of months. He is one of the, if not *the* most valued general the Empire has at the moment, and he himself is completely and fully aware of of how involved the Thalmor is inside Skyrim. He knows he has a target on his back at all times, and I doubt someone that smart will just let it happen. He's prepared. The Thalmor is inside the Empire, but they can't just reach anyone the want to at any time. If they really had all that power over the Empire, why was Tullius literally inches away from wiping out the rebellion? If he didn't 'go missing' then, I don't think he will now.
@@smol_hornet613 Not to mention that the Thalmor sent to assassinate him might regret going up against a General at the helm of an already experienced Legion that dealt with guerrilla AND sneak attacks from the Stormcloaks. They're not gonna get close to Tullius without some major bloodshed.
Many people sided with stormcloaks and im sure they didnt even bothered to ask what happened after civil war to NPCS. 1- If you wander around Whiterun Carlotta Valentia will say Stormcloak Soldiers are keep harrassing her 2-Hulda will say they sit down and drink all day and fight all the time and break the stuff 3-Ulfberth War Bear says Stormcloaks partly boycotted Warmaidens because Adrienne is not a Nord. 4-Greymane's started to tax Battle Borns a lot , battle borns say hope they wont let soldiers take their property soon. 5- Jon Battle Born and Olfina Grey mane breaks up. (Love is till finding the power huh? ) 6-Ralof says He went to windhelm but Ulfric didnt even know him ( Meanwhile he was one of the best guards of him ) 7-During Battle Of Whiterun Heimskr loses his house and Vignar doesnt even care. He's sleeping in a tent. 8-Vignar's housecarl is Olfina. Yeah Troll (!) slayer. A level 4 npc. 9-Stormcloaks have went for looting when they got the city from Imperials. Sons (!) of skyrim. Meanwhile in imperal victory : 1-Only Jarls have changed 2-No looting. Even let the stormcloak supporters came back to home. 3-Only negative thing is Heimskr is jailed. 4- Jarl Balgruuf didnt allow Grey manes to be looted ( Battle borns were going for it but he didnt let them )
Holy shit, yeah. He didn't even try to save two people who had nothing to do with the Stormcloak's. He was just like, "Welp, guess you're dying with us..."
Note that at the beginning when Alduin attacks Helgen, Ulfric goes inside the keep and once his binds are removed, his first act is to escape. General Tullius' first act is to issue orders to protect the civilians of Helgen then join the defence himself.
So Ulfric should stay with them holding a white flag of peace helping everyone and be executed anyway after Alduin leaves helgen? You would do the same! He was surrounded by enemies, except ralof.
@@reswy no buts it funny considering how an outsider would help the nord towns people despite having no connection at all but the nord who lives in the area is the first to flee.
@@VioletMilks Especially since Ulfric's whole deal is that he is waging war FOR the people of Skyrim and that the Empire didn't care for the people, but when push comes to shove he was all Shout but no bite. If he truly did value the people of Skyrim, the least he could've done is helped evacuate the civilians but he didn't even consider it. He ran away and continued his war, knowing that the Dragon threat is a danger to absolutely everyone. Regardless of whether he'll still be executed or not, a true Nord wouldn't hesitate to fight and die knowing their home and people are safe.
@@analogicaleuphimism2078 You imperials wish he was that stupid. But that is not the logical thing to do, dragons were considered stuff of legends, one suddenly appears and is making rain meteors, he is in bounds and in a enemy controlled town, what would yo do??
The mod "Opening Scene Overhaul," which uses actual audio cut from the Helgen scene, confirms what you were saying about the conversation between Tullius and Elenwen.
Selin Sevgi Terzi I could agree that they push you towards liking the stormcloaks at first but then they introduce the racism inside winterhelm so they make you decide between those two I believe that way. Canon wise I would say stormcloak victory is the real ending.
I never thought of his attitude towards Nord culture as rudeness. He is a military man, and as his rank stated, a damn good military man. And they are nothing but practical. I think his attitude was due to his aversion to Nordic sentimentality, which translate to unpracticality. And even than, it seems to me his attitude was like, "Meh, to each of our own. But, if it works, then so be it." Also he properly listens to his second.
An example of someone who is rude about Nord culture is Irileth who is just plain Ignorant. Tullius on the other hand just straight up doesn't understand Nord culture since he hasn't been there very long. But respects it enough to just let it be. I think he is being sarcastic with some of his remarks but it doesn't land. It really is the approach of, "eh to each their own I'll leave em be." He still acknowledges you as a dragonborn and your success.
@@babygurleatsshickennuggits4201 eh, in Irileth's defense, she's a Dunmer, and Dunmer culture is _way different_ than those of Nordic and Imperial culture. Imperial culture still have some overlaps with Nordic culture, like how they believe in Talos, who is just Ysmir in Nordic culture; Shezzar, who is just Shor in Nordic culture. Heck, Imperial culture still believes in a Dragonborn, proven by how they know only those with the dragon blood can wear the Amulet of Kings and with their emperors up until the end of 3E were all Dragonborns. But Dunmer culture has little to none of those overlaps, they don't believe in the Nine Divines, or Talos, or a Dragonborn. They believe in the Tribunal and their "chosen one" was the Nerevarine, who had no connection with dragons, Akatosh, the Thuum, or anything whatsoever.
@Rafli Avriza they still had beliefs in the 3 good daedera and fighting along side Balgruf in the war and staying by his side all those years she would've learnt about it. Especially considering she's been around his kids their whole lives and since Jarl balling is teaching them the Nord ways of living. For example there's the Argonians who say themselves that they don't much care about the Nord way of living but that has to do with how they've been treated by the Nords. They still know the customs and aren't outwardly ignorant on specific things.
@@babygurleatsshickennuggits4201 that's honestly a fair point to bring up, but knowing her no-nonsense personality and how Dragonborns have mostly become a legend and are only told in tales in 4E 201 until the LDB shows up, I'm not surprised that Irileth was easy to dismiss the guards when they say the player is a Dragonborn after you defeated Mirmulnir, even some of the guards at the watch tower will express their skepticism.
@@rafliavriza3651 Also, she's ex-Morag Tong. The Morag Tong is... Well, "odd" is a nice way of putting it. They don't care about any god, not even Vivec or Sotha Sil, just being paid and who to kill. The Morag Tong is actually a problem politically for Morrowind because they're so obsessed with their superiors' orders that they don't account for anything outside their little murder cult. Useful for murdering your rivals legally, less so when you're the Tribunal at the end of the First Era trying to keep an Empire from collapsing and causing a massive power vacuum in one of your neighboring countries. I'm not surprised Irileth doesn't GAF about the Dragonborn, looks like she hasn't fully shaken off the Morag Tong cult programming.
The Greybeards: "Alduin gains strength by eating the souls of every soldier who dies in this war!" General Tullius: "We need to end this war. Every day we fight among ourselves, we grow weaker against the Thalmor." Ulfric Stormcloak: "I am the true ruler of Skyrim. I don't care how many die proving that."
If that’s actually your takeaway of Ulfric, you’re beyond the point pf lissencephally. For the entire Civil War, he had his doubts, had his timidities, and even says “I don’t think any man is ever ready to send his men to their deaths.” He doesn’t care about being king. He just wants Skyrim to have a strong, legitimate king, not some imperial puppet enjoying a novelty. And he’s willing to actually step up as king and bring Skyrim back to its independence. Literally, any at-length interaction with the man will shred apart this ridiculous narrative that he’s some megalomaniacal tyrant. I see both sides, but the Empire has proven itself unworthy and weak, and even Hammerfell was able to drive out the Thalmor WITHOUT imperial aide.
@@fanamatakecick97 It's "lissencephaly" 😂 All very eloquent otherwise, you're just missing a few fundamental points. 1) Ulfric started the whole mess. 2) If you read the journals in the tedious Embassy part, you'll see that Ulfric was previously a Thalmor agent. Anyone else who's tried to fight the Thalmor previously, has had their butt handed to them. Ulfric should know that. 3) He's screwing over Skyrim's economy, by forcing out the Imperials. All of which pales to utter insignificance, in light of the fact that you know nothing about me, personally, aside from the fact that I've played this game. So in making such a ludicrous insult...and spelling it incorrectly...who's really being smooth-brained here? 😘
The cut content for their discussion at the beginning between the Thalmor and Tulius is that they are demanding the Empire to hand over Ulfric and Tulius refuses, furthering the point to stop their proxy war.
Remember: in the Thalmor Embassy Ulfric's dossier describes him as an "asset" and "dormant". Tullius is smart enough to see what's happening, even to the point in "Season Unending" being willing to listen to the Dragonborn and giving up territory to stop Alduin. Smart bloke. Takes dying for Ulfric to see he was set up...
To be fair, it also says that he is unapproachable and it would be too dangerous to do so. It is likely that Ulfric was an "asset" because he was mindfucked by the Thalmor when they captured (and extensively tortured him) when he was fighting in the war that caused this shit in the first place. That was many years ago. At the time, Ulfric gave up sensitive information without realizing it while being tortured, and that caused some really terrible repercussions. I've always believed that if he was still an asset, it was due to Thalmor trickery and manipulation than him ever actually being in league with them--especially since he, out of anyone, hates them the most. That's why it says it's too dangerous to approach him, because he'll fucking kill them if he founds out they want to use him like that again. In other words, Ulfric is not a sleeper agent.
@@Cooli167 They likely have other dossiers, this is only what the player finds at the fort. More to the point, we find a dossier on Ulfric and they list him as an asset because of their history with him, as I listed in the first comment. I do get where you're coming from though and agree it is entirely possible the Thalmor have the ability to create sleeper agents (they are mages, after all), and it's even an interesting stance to take in the grand scheme of things. I just don't think he is one. I still think there's far more evidence to suggest it was just a misleading scroll taken out of context referencing his history with them (and how they used him under duress) than him actually still being an asset. The point of it was instill the player with a question mark and add more intrigue to the Civil War. Which it did. Interestingly and somewhat related, if you side with Ulfric, he does not actually take the mantel of high king. Instead, he asks for a vote among the Jarls--and yes, it is true that they are mostly loyal to the Stormcloaks anyway, but it is still a *vote*. Obviously, the reverse does not happen if you side with the Empire. A vote was something that Tullius was against doing as he would have rather kept Elisif as a weak leader and throned puppet willing to do whatever her told her to do. Say what you want about the Thalmor taking advantage, but the Empire and Tullis himself had no place or right to get involved in how the Nords run their own nation.
You, an imperial general, caught the rebel leader so u can end the civil war in Skyrim, but a fucking dragon shows up Also Tullius: ''Guards, get the townspeople to safety!'' that's why tullius is way better than Ulfric
Remember: Siding with the Empire is actually siding against the Thalmor. You alone strengthen the Empire greatly... greatly enough, at least, to bring the war to a quick end before the Thalmor even know whats going on and can't stop it
Siding with the Empire is strengthening the Thalmor. They would be in Skyrim weakening the province and at the same time doing that in Cyrodill. The Empire is the puppet of the Thalmor. Do you really think that the Thalmor wouldn't notice that the Empire is moving troops? Come on, think better. The Empire is the worst choice.
@@JoseAlejandro-xc6fb if the Dragonborn sides with the empire, the civil war is won and the empire reunited before the dominion can do anything. Which allows the empire to focus their full might towards the southern border, meaning the empire would almost certainly win the second Great War
@@robertbaratheon3137 the Thalmor are already sabotaging and using the Empire as their lapdog. Letting the Empire to retake skyrim is letting them to bring his rotten influence alongside with the Thalmor influence. Staying with the Empire is letting the thalmor to sabotage and supervise the humans. Realistically the Empire would never recover because the Thalmor aren't going to allowed it, they would be stopping their recover. Instead, under an Stormcloak outcome no Thalmor would be sabotaging and also the Nords by their own can defend very good. We can see it in how Ulfric is managing to wipeout an entire legion by attrition with only some rebels, even if they are local recruits, the legion has very more numbers than the Stormcloaks and even then Ulfric is winning them by attrition. Or with the battle of the Red Ring, when the nords by their own destroyed the majority of the Thalmor army. An independent Skyrim is better for the Nords and the humans in general, it brings them the liberty to movilize and train troops, that no Thalmor would be weakening them and no coward or stupid ruler would be leading skyrim, it also brings the oportunity to make alliances with the Redguards that also hates the Thalmor and the Empire.
@@robertbaratheon3137 But the Problem is that the Thalmor have already infiltrated the entire remaining empire. The Embassies in Cyrodill, Skyrim and High Rock will just have to throw a Party on the same day and have an "accident" happen and suddenly the entire high Nobility of the Empire will be dead and completely incapable of doing anything. Only through getting rid of the Embassy can anyone hope to defeat the Aldmeri Dominion.
To be fair to Ulfric, it was the collective emotions of not just himself, but most people around him. Let's not forget that if Ulfric is indeed an idiot, he had a very large number of idiots who put him up there in the first place, declaring war in order to return Skyrim to its independent state. Ulfric is not the only person to blame.
@sol1d gh0st yes. But has deep seated sentiment and sympathies based on cultural traditionalism, his race, and nationalism. So I mean, do what you will with that.
Tulius: deeds based on lies and deception Ulfric: deeds based on his personal experience There. I fixed it for you. Try actually listening to the both of them in game some time. ;)
For a long time, I really only did see the short term But if Ulfric wins, Skyrim will fall to the Aldmeri Dominion Ulfric is a damn fool who will die by my blade soon enough, and I will unite Tamriel
Something that I've noticed while playing Skyrim is that it appears that the Nords of Skyrim appear to have regressed or devolved from what they once were. You can notice this with the Ancient Nord Pickaxe, its stronger than the steel pickaxes, and there's also Wuuthrad which is as strong as ebony weapons and uses ebony to improve. BUT if you listen to the modern Nords they heavily criticise anything that isn't steel, whether it be Ebony, Oricalcum, or Elven, they even criticise you for using magic. So if Ulfric were to win the war, he'll be leading a Skyrim that refuses magic, potions, enchantments and stagnates to just using iron and steel gear. And if the in-game stats are anything to go off of, then this would mean that Skyrim will be severely ill-equipped to fight the Thalmor who not only have better weapons and armor but magic, potions, and enchantments to give them an even greater advantage. Skyrim would be crushed on their own.
The Nords also continue worshipping the Divines rather than their original pantheon. There are a few in Skyrim who mention the old pantheon, including a damn Redguard from the temple of Mara. He seems to know more of the old customs than a lot of the Nords. There is an old man in the mountains who refuses to worship the Divines and instead worships the Nord pantheon. Hamming's grandfather. Hamming being the little boy from Helgen whose dad was burned to death by Alduin right in front of him. Though even this old man forgets plenty of the pantheon. Like Sai, Nord god of luck. The one god that Nords do still worship, or at least know by heart, from the old pantheon is Shor. The Thalmor didn't ban the worship of Lorkhan in any of his forms. I think they misunderstand just how dead he is. They may have banned the worship of Talos. Who was potentially a reincarnation of Lorkhan, but they're attacking the symptoms of what they see as a disease. Not the source. This may or may not bite them in the ass later. Because one who can sit in the throne of Shor is still in play. Even if they're stuck serving Hermaeus Mora. Anyway, I think being under Imperial influence for so long has left most Nords ignorant to the old ways.
"On the surface, basically manly as all hell, magic and elf-hating not-Vikings from the frozen land of Skyrim. Under the surface, a deeply intolerent, xenophobic and warlike people that would have ran their society into extinction long ago if they hadn't been conquered by smarter people." --1d6chan, describing the Nords
Love, therefore, and tounge tied simplicity, in least speak most, to my capacity ~Shakespeare I'd much rather have someone stutter when being genuine than someone who can speak pretty words but doesn't mean any of them
I play Skyrim since I was around 11. I’ve always had the Star Wars mentality of “Rebel good empire bad.” But the more I see it, it seems like the empire takes decent care of their people. Places like solitude have problems but they’re generally okay. Windhelm is a depressing place filled with racism and beggars. Overall I still don’t care for eaither faction but if I had to choose, I’d choose the empire.
The narrative of the underdog is strong. When a big threat dresses itself up as the weaker, as something that needs support, then it's really dangerous.
I would say it's about equal siding with the imperials have you place Maven Blackbriar on the throne in Riften which is bad, but siding with thestormcloaks have you place that genocidial maniac Thongvor Silver-Blood on the throne in Markarth.
General Tullias is one of my favourite character from all of The Elder Scrolls franchise. He knows The Thalmor are up to something and Ulfric while having noble intentions is just going to make stuff worse.
@@tatsuhirosatou5513 that could also be said about the Empire and how Tarlo said he will eventually disappear like every TES protagonist and only remembered by history as a mysterious hero figure but not doing anymore than in the games
Tarlo The Boar to be fair history has already favored the dragonborns side. rather your talking about alessia tiber or the player character they always seem to have plot armor. if lorewise the db sided with the stormcloaks they'd pretty much win. even if he did disappear it's not Like they are out of options. 1 the nords are already good fighters used to the harsh climate of skyrim where as the thalmor are not. they could also ally with the redgaurds who are even more talented warriors and pretty much have the same goal as the stormcloaks. heck they already did what the stormcloaks want to do. the have their independence and beat back the thalmor consistently. and its not a huge stretch. I can't remember when but at a certain point in the stormcloak questline you can over hear ulfric and galmar talking about trying to get aid from highrock. so getting aid from hammerfell can't be out of the question.
Tullius is the mature counterpart to the juvenile, or even childish, Ulfric. Freedom and revenge are very appealing to people, yet they rarely think of the consequences.
Peoples issue is that they stop and think what Ulfric’s freedom means. Without the empire the food shipments from the rest of the empire will cease leading to famine Without the empire Ulfric will have to mint a new and untested coin less valuable than the septium The chances of a Thalmer incursion are higher since they mind control the new high king and Skyrim is weak now Really ‘freedom’ gives almost nothing and takes away too much to be considered a good idea. I personally almost always side with the empire because I care about Skyrim and want it not be enslaved by the elf’s. The only times I pick the stormclocks are when I’m RPing as someone evil/opportunistic, think thieves guild, dark brotherhood and vampires. Factions that benefit from a weak Skyrim
@@Berserker3624 Wait...I'm not the only one who plays their villain characters like that? All of my evil characters are members of the Stormcloaks, Thieves, Brotherhood, and Volkihar family. Nice!
@@SpiritDragonSD yeah I hope they actually make the stormclocks the guys who win, that way humanity is doomed against the Thalmer. Y’know just to make the setting darker by having humans enslaved
@@Berserker3624 What the hell are you on about? Skyrim produces most of its food, locally, and the Stormcloaks, and realistically, Skyrim at large, are fully capable of driving out the Thalmor WITHOUT the Empire. Hammerfell did the *exact same thing,* and that’s with the Empire pulling its aide entirely. Learn some actual lore and it becomes apparent that the Empire is a novelty that only looks out for itself, and not the provinces it’s annexed. This has been the case since Morrowind, but it becomes ever more apparent in Skyrim. The Empire needs Skyrim, that’s why it’s desperately holding on. If Skyrim wasn’t such an asset to the Empire (main source of gold, silver, steel, mead, and has two major ports
Right after Alduin attacks Helgen: Ulfric: Hides in the next tower, not even helping with his own wounded. Tullius: Just don't stand there, kill that thing! Guards, get the townspeople to safety! So for my part, this is proof who really cares about the people.
I mean bother are pretty much ordering their people, difference being Ulfric had to seek shelter in the tower with the stormcloaks so the Imperials wouldn’t capture them again
There's a wounded inside the tower where Ulfric is hiding. He didn't even care about her. Whereas Tullius is stilk worried about Vilod being wounded while fighting Alduin.
@@WarmRepeat yeah, he should have stay there and keep track of every single wounded stormcloak so he could help them, spend hours praying (or anything else, the main reason i consider this blaming invalid is that there was not much he could do there, he's the leader of stormcloaks, he cannot risk to miss the oppurtunity to flee and live to keep the rebellion going) and wait for the storm to be over and get caught.
Dumbass, Ulfric was tied and gagged and nearly had his head chopped off (by General Tullius) what do you think he possibly could have done in that scenario?
Ever since i begun playing Skyrim, i've always sided with the Empire. I sided with the Stormcloacks once and i regreted it almost as fast as i started playing that playthrough
I always side with the Empire too. When I first started playing, I did the main quest and not the civil war quest, and I had to sit through that peace talk with both sides. Halfway through the peace talk, I regretted not doing the civil war quests first. I completely started over from zero even though I was level 55 at the time. I told my friend what I did and he asked me why didn't I just went back to before I went to convinced them to sit at the peace talk rather than just starting over completely.
I sided with the Stormcloaks on my first playthrough (because Skyrim is how I was introduced to The Elder Scrolls) and I regretted it because I didn’t see the Nord Supremacy viewpoint that they had until I helped them win the civil war. So I sided with The Empire ever since.
If only Caesar had a fallout version of Tullius as a successor it would be the perfect faction, I would dare to compare it to Julius Caesar and Augustus, but how we don't have it, Mr.House for me stays the best
@@QualityPenother than house what we have? An corrupted wannabe nation that if the money talks high enough would be identical or even worse than the legion, one Artificial Intelligence that have an entire army of securitrons at it's hands? What I say as perfect is, an United and strong horde that with a true and clear successor wouldn't be doomed, the worst part of the legion is that, it will fall as soon as Caesar dies, and if they had an successor that would play Augustus role, it would become an prosper and strong nation, the Legion is themed around Rome, but plays a lot more similar to the Mongol empire, the Legion will even die like the Mongols, when Genghis Khan died, the Mongol Empire divided itself between the rule of Ariq Böke and Kublai Khan, Kublai killed Ariq and soon enough, the empire fell into chaos, when Caesar dies, Lanius will succeed, but most likely will receive lots of plots and attempts at coups, in the other hand, if we had an Tullius, already put in charge be Caesar himself, he might put the entire Legion in a "Pax Romana", that's why it would be a perfect nation
Slavery, no rights for women, mandatory military service, authoritarian dictatorship; yeah, that's much better than a democratic governmental system who's eyes got a bit to big for them (i.e., not slowing down their expansion to consolidate their gains.) NCR would also probably be doing a better job patrolling for raiders if they didn't need to maintain such a high number of troops positioned to defend against the Legion. Don't get me wrong, the NCR sure as hell isn't perfect, but it is miles better than the Legion. It's why I crushed the legion, killed House, then told the NCR to get out. Their territory will be better secured, they trade for power from the Hoover damn and an army of robots secures their eastern flank and pushes future expansion northwards towards Oregon and Washington. Now if the Brotherhood of Steel would just remove head from ass.
@@jordanespinosa2508 Do you know what happens when you let big power in the hands of a very corrupt government? he goes into crisis, to the point the military will get little to no food, this happens in Brazil, the Eighth largest economy in the world, why do you think that an overexpanding nation that doesn't have an amazing economy in an post apocalyptic world will do better? Winning or not, the NCR is doomed to fail, too much power to corrupt people, now, to the Legion, in a world where people literally eat eachother around like some gourmet shit, slavery and voting rights for women are your biggest priority? Humanity already got over slavery one time, they will get over it again, same with voting rights, mandatory military service happens all around the world, it's no big deal really, no one even cares about it in the countries it is demanded, the only "permanent" downside of the Caesar's Legion is it's ditatorial government, but as Mr.House says, "If you want to see the fate of democracies, look out the windows." Also, House is clearly the one better for Humanity, he is an leader who cannot die by age, which means, he can always be there keeping the house clean, if his plans of colonizing the moon are put into action, humanity might be saved and put into an bright future
If you decide to go for Season Unending it shows how petty Ulfric really is and how diplomatic Tulius was. And like others have pointed out in the beginning of the game Tulius wanted to protect the people AND I would venture to say he didnt even want us dead but his hand was forced because of Thalmor pressure. Best to get rid of their asset (Ulfric) and any and all witnesses to stop it all dead in it's tracks.
Yeah, "Season Unending" was definitely the moment I decided I liked Tullius better than Ulfric. If you make things more favorable to the Stormcloaks, Tullius will grumble about your bias but little else. If you make things more favorable to the Empire, Ulfric would have stormed out if Esbern hadn't interjected and reminded him what was at stake. Not to mention how Ulfric demanded Markarth as a price for the truce, and has to be cajoled into conceding any territory in return.
@@DoctorWortspielerthis was the moment I sided with the imperial, ulfric is so petty and self centered bcs "he know what's good for skyrim" yeah fuck that guy, fuck his rebellion I never play nords anyway
Oh it definitely showed how petty and even how whiny Ulfric is Dude got told he could have Markarth and Falkreath for the cost of Riften and still complained that it wasn’t fair for him Dude got two holds, both with decent strategic advantages and still whined like he was getting screwed, not to mention the way he kept threatening to leave if he didn’t have his way Ulfric is arrogant, petty and downright foolish, Tullius has the interests of not only Skyrim but ALL of Tamriel in mind, and he fights for everyone, not just himself or his homeland
@@logeyperogi1805 Dude had already taken markarth, he gets a graveyard and loses both breadbasket and honeypot of skyrim? Hes right to walk away then just let the Elves weaken skyrim more with out even landing a Army.
@@jakemcdonald-erdman8751 Firstly: Ulfric doesn't hold Markarth at the time of Skyrim, it's Imperial. Secondly: You know what's in Falkreath Hold? *Pale Pass* , You know, the Empire's main land route into Skyrim? Getting to capture the Skyrim side of Pale Pass for the cost of Riften is not so bad a deal, especially with the additional capital(silver) coming out of Markarth. The Empire has to go through Morrowind to use the land route through the Rift. Losing Falkreath effectively cuts the Empire off from Cyrodiilic reinforcements.
The one person I really really want to change is Jarl Elisif. She's obviously been shafted by her husband and his court into making her a useless puppet, and she genuinely is a nice person who cares about her people. I really wish there was a questline where she becomes more capable and confident.
She could've been Skyrim's Iron Lady (or The Maiden with an Iron Fist) or some shit like that, unifying and strengthening the bonds of Imperial and the entirety of Skyrim, sends ex-Stormcloak troops into Military Academies or something similar to widen and sharpen their skills and make them truly formidable.
@@lauxantilles That's not poor writing. You can't and shouldn't be able to "fix" everything you come across, in either a game or real life. Some situations can't be salvaged. Some character traits can't be changed. There are dozens if not hundreds of examples throughout history of nice but naive rulers being taken advantage of by their counsel. They didn't have anyone to "fix" them and make them strong, either. Anime-like character arcs are just that. Refusing to facilitate players' fantasies of a perfect world where they can fix anyone and anything is not poor writing. It's quite the opposite.
It does feel like Elisif is in way over her head, but it's also clear why Torygg married her. With a decent advisor, she could be a beloved High Queen.
@@lauxantilles Its really not poor writing though. She was never meant to lead to begin with, she was just the wife of the king. So her husband gets killed by Ulfric and now before she can even grieve she has to fight Ulfric, a Jarl that could be considered a prodigy from a few angles, for the throne of her husband. She is way in over her head with good reason. I wish the player could use Dragonborn status to marry her and support her though. Who cares if I assassinated the emperor bruh I assassinated Alduin as well it should balance out lemme be king.
Initially the stormcloks seem awesome you know “hell ya rebellion” then you start digging into the lore and realize what the really stand for and the ramifications of what would happen to to all of Tamriel if they win. You basically hand it all to the thalmor. You then realize that joining the empire is far more logical.
Logical, yes. Better, yes. But logically, players will hold a grudge against that early "Kill-em-all" attitude displayed by the imperials at Helgen which shows the weaker sides of the imperials. In other words, they are very willing to sacrifice the innocent together with the guilty if it means ending the war. Smart tactically? Yes. Insensitive and bound to be viewed as a war crime years in the future? Hell, yes.
logically the Thalmor already own the Empire and that General Talius can easily be assassinated if he misbehaves. They did it to the previous mane, so they can do it to a mere general as well.
No , you should have realized that Bethesda designed the game so that both sides are enjoyable and in the end you are the hero no matter what side you join because you are the Dragonborn.
Either of them winning would be fine, the real disaster is if it takes too long to happen. If anything the empire's more at fault since they could cede Skyrim at any point, and the Stormcloaks probably wouldn't have pursued beyond the borders of their own kingdom, while if the Stormcloaks were to surrender, the empire would probably take their supporters as prisoners or execute them. It's far more understandable why the Stormcloaks would be more willing to keep going than the Empire is, they have nowhere else to go.
@@lb8739 Tullius is trying to reason with him so he could see the futility of it all, but Ulfric is so blinded by his passion that he hears none of it and simply brags about his recent achievement
Like seriously killing the Stormcloaks is stupid, all the Empire has to do is declare war on the Thalmor and re-legalize Talos and the Stormcloaks are suddenly powerful allies against the Thalmor instead of enemies. Stuff the Empire plans to eventually do anyways right? They should fight the rebels as little as necessary, make excuses to the Thalmor, draw out negotiations, use politics to slow things down, all the while both armies get strong enough to unite and destroy the true enemy.
The main reason Tulius is superior to Ulfric is that he actually understands and is playing the long game. Ulfric only cares for short-term victories. Kick the empire out now, allow Talos worship now, remove the Elves now. He doesn't understand how much Skyrim becoming independent from the Empire weakens both the empire and Skyrim itself. Tulius understands why this cold war is happening, and winning the war is critical for the empire eventually regaining the strength necessary to fight the Thalmor again and actually defeat them.
Is not now. He literally states that they would have to take advantage of the "peace" time that Skyrim would have to regain and train troops. Because precisely he doesn't think in the present, he thinks in the future. He knows that after an indepent Skyrim he still won't rest because he has to prepare Skyrim for the Thalmor. He knows that that weakens the empire but who cares about the Empire? They are weak, pathetic and declining. Literally without the Nords and Redguards the Empire would have never won in Red Ring. So if the Empire have to fall so be it, but Skyrim doesn't have to take the consecuenses and obviously Skyrim would be better independent than under imperial rule.
I'm creating a table top RPG where I sided with the Stormcloaks, but don't like how he is still racist and keeps certain parts of Skyrim weak, so it's taking a stance against those who supported up Ulfric but don't support a more free skyrim
@@stevenrickabaugh726 but Ulfric is not racist wtf. He never does any racist behavior and he ignores the dunmers because the civil war is more important than the dunmer's problems.
@@stevenrickabaugh726 when he talks about "the elves" he talks about the aldmeri dominion, is obvious. He simply generalize them as Elves because that's what they are, Elves, although he doesn't distinguish between races of Elves, but he clearly points and talk about the Thalmor Elves. Why he would hate Elves if you being an Stormcloak elf would treat you with the same respect that if you were a Nord?. He hates the Thalmor just like any human in the 4th era hates the dominion. He's simply generalizing them as Elves, but he's clearly talking about the dominion. He doesn't hate the Elves, he hates the Thalmor. Now with the argonians, they live in poverty because they are refugees. They arrived asking for Home and the city was already overpopulated by the dunmer refugees. The least Ulfric can do was give to them the docks and he has to segregate them there because seriously, were do you put the argonians without making Windhelm a city of beggars and a whole demographic chaos inside the city? He simply administrate his city and his population as it should be, although it brings some of them in poor states, but everyone is having a home at least, that's the reason of the segregation, not racism, because again it's unlogical to think that is about racism when Ulfric literally never does any racist behavior and treats you with the same respect if you're an Stormcloak nord or an Stormcloak of any other race.
Yeah, because killing is what you do with valuable prisoners. Not bargain their lives for something, not try and get some valuable information, not try and recruit them as double agents, no, just killing them, because obviously the rebels won't just make a martyr out of their leader.
@@aceclover758 Not every one of us know The Elder Scrolls lore you know when i first started skyrim i thought empire was thalmor's bitch and ulfric was right i didn't even know anything
Long story short, I used to side with the Stormcloaks, but then I started seeing the bigger picture and realized I had been fighting for the wrong side.
"Something something better to be born good or overcome your evil something or other" ~Parthurnax probably I can't be bothered to look up the quote for a 7 month old comment
I always got the impression that the enforcerment of the Talos ban was basically impossible and was just lip service to the Thalmor. . .before the rebellion. I can imagine the Empire passing it into law (and maybe even rounding up a few people to 'show willing') but the punishments would be fines and maybe a week in prison, not execution. They had to crack down in Skyrim hard because it was such a pivotal position of the Stormcloak rebellion and the Thalmor were so closely involved: Quick, look busy, the boss is watching. If Ulfric hadn't led his revolt (which based on his dossier, is based on lingering guilt from his capture by the Thalmor) then the empire would have turned a blind eye to Talos worship in peoples homes and in private. Sure, the shrines and statues would have been moved to dusty basements and cupboards for a few years, and wearing an amulet would have had a hold guard fine you 50 septims, but there would be no active crackdown or inquisition. Then, if the Empire could have reconstituted enough to fight the Thalmor, they would have used the 'Talos ban' as a pretext for war, as part of an unjust peace deal forced on them by the Thalmor. Thats my theory, anyway.
You're not far off from the truth. In the years following the end of the war the Talos ban was exactly that, it was lip service no one bothered to enforce. But then the Markarth Incident happened and after taking back Markarth from the Reachmen, Ulfric held the city hostage while his men ran rampant in the city, forbidding the Imperial garrisons from returning unless the Empire legalised Talos worship again. Which they did, to end the bloodshed. Which riled the Dominion up and threatened to renew the war, and it is the reason as to why Thalmor Justiciars are wandering freely around Imperial soil.
This is also confirmed right at the beginning of the game. If you side with Hadvar in the intro and go meet with his blacksmith uncle in Riverwood, he says outright "No one paid attention to the edict. Everyone still had their little shrine to Talos."
I joined the Stormcloaks in my first playthrough. And honestly, I have never felt more disgusted with myself for a moral choice in a video game. By the end, you realize that not only have you played right into the Thalmor's hands by removing a man on "their side" who sought to undermine them - thus making it less likely Skyrim will remain free in the long run - you find out the truth about Ulfric. That his talk about "honor" and claims to have dueled Torygg were all lip service to the Nords. He really did just covet the throne. He really is the monster the Imperials claim him to be. God, I felt so bad for Elisif. Every game since, if I even bother with the Civil War at all, I side with the Imperials. General Tulius is my general. Long live the Empire.
@@nokachi3339 The way they take whiterun is awful to you, But how else could someone take it? You can't take something in a war without violence. (In a normal scenario.)
If you stop in front of Tullius during the Helgen attack he tells you, "Run, you idiot!" It's like he knows you're probably some random person in the wrong place at the wrong time and is willing to look the other way while you escape. Then you just stop right in front of him like, "Kill me, please."
The embodiment of Akatosh, Kyne/Kynareth, and possibly Shor, standing there like an idiot while the end of the universe is flying around killing everyone. Sure, he was going to have you executed, but it wasn't personal. Once Alduin attacked you'd essentially been pardoned. Makes you wonder why Alduin hit Helgen at just that moment.
@@walnzell9328I saw a theory that he sensed your dragon soul there, but saw no dragons so knew you were the Dragonborn, which is why he also seems to target you at a point
@@hursimear3408 "As a Dragonborn, you should not get involved with war between the Empire and the Stormcloaks." Me: "Alright, what will you do if I do get involved?" "Oh, absolutely nothing.
I think you just about covered why Tullius is smarter than he looks. While he is insensitive to foreign culture. He always looked forward to the greater task at hand.
@@SpookyMarine I am aware of that. If Ulfric actually tried to cooperate with the Empire and High King, he would have eventually learned that the White Gold Concordant would not last and they could have united for round 2.
@@garuelx8627 there is no cooperating with the empire under who's rule was ulfric arrested after winning a province for the empire. Torryg and the empire deserved no leniency after that.
@@Angelo-nd4lg as far as I remember in the ES series, people can redeem themselves after serving some time. Ulfric instead let his ego get the better of him and the Thalmor played him like a cheap fiddle.
@@garuelx8627 are you mad these mofos have no respect for anything but their own comforts all the military leaders were ready to push on with the war but mead decides to surrender so that the dominion leaves cyrodiil. These assholes would sell their own mothers for a little bit more comfort instead of protect the livelihoods of their people.
To add to the point at around 0:50 ish, on the skyrim wiki I found this. During the quest Unbound, General Tullius appears to have a conversation with Elenwen when he enters Helgen, but they do not actually speak. Unused voice lines exist in the English version of Skyrim, but only for Elenwen. Tullius' dialogue can be found in the German version of Skyrim. Found below is an approximation of how the scene would've played out in-game. The subtitles don't actually exist in the game files, so they were made from scratch and, as such, might not appear punctuated 100% like the developers had envisioned. Elenwen: "General Tullius, stop! By the authority of the Thalmor, I'm taking custody of these prisoners." General Tullius: "Ambassador Elenwen. I guessed that you wouldn't want to miss an execution."' General Tullius: "Do you know my guest, Ulfric Stormcloak, Jarl of Windhelm, once a candidate to Skyrim's throne, traitor of the Empire?" General Tullius: "If you want Ulfric alive, you'll have to take him by force!" Elenwen: "You're making a terrible mistake..." General Tullius: "I will put an end to this rebellion here and now, rightfully in my position as Legion General." Elenwen: "Your Emperor will hear of this. By the terms of the White-Gold Concordat, I operate with full Imperial authority!" General Tullius: "All right, let's go."
Ulfric: "Rikke? Dragonborn? *Tullius?!* Why in the divines have all of you come to my audience hall? Speak quickly! Even my respect for the Dragonborn won't stop me from seizing you unless you give me a very good reason, General..." Tullius: "Calm yourself, Ulfric. I bring three writs for you. One is a pardon from the Emperor, himself. The other is the final draft of a treaty between your half of Skyrim and the Empire. I think that you'll find the terms fair, and it only needs your seal." Galmar: "Hmph. And the third?" Tullius: "Something your...no, our Dragonborn came across while tearing through the Thalmor Embassy. I nearly arrested him myself when I learned about it, but take a look." Galmar: "Ulfric...do you know what this is? That Thalmor witch had you believe you were responsible for something you had nothing to do with! What does the treaty say?" Ulfric: "That we can rule ourselves within the holds that have willingly broken from the Empire, and the Emperor is offering the Legion to fight alongside our armies during a planned invasion of the Aldmeri Dominion. Though he doesn't force the issue. He only lists a date, timeframe and offers assistance if we decide to attack in tandem." Galmar: "I'll be damned! But what words do you offer in assurance of any of this? We need more than some official documents to prove your sincerity." Rikke: "Talos will guide all of us, Galmar." Tullius: "And considering that the Legion is now harboring a fugitive from the Thalmor, well, I think your soldiers will soon come across some of their agents who were in pursuit. With luck, at least a few of them will be carrying instructions and warrants for his apprehension." Rikke: "Not to mention all three of us came here while incognito." Galmar: "Ulfric, our informants did offer isolated reports of Thalmor attacking Imperial positions in Skyrim. And being pushed back by superior numbers, but that may not last." Tullius: "Well? What say you? My seal is already on your pardon and the treaty. All we need is yours." (This is the third option that I wish was available during the Civil War quest line.)
Oh. My. *GOD.* Someone PLEASE turn this into a mod. *PLEASE*. It's also how the Civil War went by in my Skyrim story, my Altmer DB found the Thalmor dossier and handed it over to Ulfric, and managed to unite both the Stormcloaks and the Imperial Legion together against the Dominion. Sure, Skyrim still seceded, but nothing became between it and the Empire, they're "friendly neighbors". And, to boot, all four (Ulfric, Galmar, Tullius & Rikke) aided my Altmer into defeating both Elenwen and Aldiun, so now they're all 4 big friends.
I here this, but bear in mind since the dragonborn itself is from northern mythology it would make sense for him to side with Ufric. also consider the fact that the empire is falling and most of us that played Skyrim, for the first time were persuaded to join Stormclocks by the story and more obvious clues. I guess it was a mistake that BGS wanted us to make on purpose.
@@heydararamju2000 The dragonborn outside of the main questline is irrelevant in the lore, in every game in Elder Scrolls the only thing ever remembered about the main character is the main questline, and there is absolutely no memory of what gender, race, or class that person was. The only thing that will be remembered of in the lore for the dragonborn is that there was a dragonborn, that saved Tamriel(or at least Skyrim) from Dragons.
@@Cool70sfreak To be fair while that is true, I would greatly assume most people would not know Sheogarath changed people. Especially that the Hero of Kvatch a person they can't remember who they were directly, became Sheogarath lol.
@@Cool70sfreak Actually that brings up an interesting thought. if the Sheogorath we meet in Skyrim is indeed the Hero of Kvatch, it is likely they changed forms as they grew into the role of Sheogorath(the previous Sheogorath did explain the Hero of Kvatch would grow into the role), and given Sheogorath is the Daedric Prince of madness, does Sheogorath even remember they were once the Hero of Kvatch?
I just started playing recently and I sided with the Empire right away. The thing that really convinced me was the peace meeting with the Greybeards, general stated he's there to make temporary peace so we can deal with it, and then Ulfric the narcissist started stating selfish demands over and over and over again until it got annoying. He wasn't there to think about more important things like beating the world eater, we was there to get things out of it, which wasn't even the intention. He managed to turn something unrelated into a discussion to see how much he can take. I hated him from that point on. Someone that selfish and self centered doesn't deserve to run a country. He can't see past his own needs.
The rebellion faction is named after himself. On my one character who joined the Stormcloaks, I could feel the immediate regret and never got far for that playthrough.
I never understood how the Stormcloaks thought that they would somehow be able to hold off the Aldmeri Dominion. The Empire barely won the original Great War, after all.
@@sadcrab9125 Actually the Thalmor were hoping for an extended civil war. As the Stormcloaks won the war, now they could consolidate their power and break free of the Thalmor - which is what Ulfric intended in the first place. There are issues with Ulfric and his rebellion, but his goal isn't one of them.
@@ajunta2270 while I agree that the Thalmor want to extend the war, I don't believe the Nords could defeat them on their own. I think the Empire and Nords need each other, the Thalmor is too powerful.
When this game came out a decade ago, my first playthrough had me join the Stormcloaks. I was a teenager at the time, so I assume something about their rebellious nature grabbed me. I'm still kind of rebellious to this day, but ever since that first playthrough, I haven't been able to join the Stormcloaks again.
The moment when you notice you're still into yesterday's pizza as breakfast, but you really enjoy going to bed early and get annoyed by the neighbor's loud music.
When I first played Skyrim I totally agreed with the Stormcloak cause and thought the Empire was this weak, decaying, corrupt state that needed to be finished off. But reading TES lore and canon, in-game history books, and even trying to make real-life history comparisons to Skyrim, I’ve come to realize that the Empire, while not perfect, is the best thing for anybody that doesn’t want to be exterminated by virtue of being non-Altmer. Ironically it was Tiber Septim himself who founded the very Empire the Stormcloaks want to see destroyed. That’s what I love about TES series. Yes the gameplay itself isn’t the best, sometimes the writing for the characters is bad and makes them look like fools. BUT, the development of the setting, the in-game lore, and the writing involving the world itself. That is why, 9 years later, I’m still coming back to this game, and probably why you are too.
No. The Empire is the worst choice. The Stormcloaks and the Nords are better warriors and tacticians than them. They know how to fight magic. They are more aware of the Thalmor threat that the Empire. And they're not racist for christ sake. Only some of them are racist. Shit if you're an altmer argonian dunmer or khajit Ulfric and galmar would still recognize you as another fellow soldier, another one who support his cause no matter race. Shit, there is even High Elves and imperials living prosperous in Windhelm and without any complains about "racism" The stormcloaks don't want to see destroyed the Empire. But they know that under imperial rule Skyrim is doomed, just like Cyrodill . And this Empire is not even the Septim Empire, that Empire died long time ago with Martin Septim. Analyze the lore the Empire is weak and declining. The Stormcloaks and an indepent Skyrim is the best choice.
Zach bro I've read your comment and let me challenge you a little. Look into more lore about Tiber Septim as a man, the second line of the Prophecy of the Dragonborn will point you in the right direction. Combine that info with looking into how long the oldest elves have been known to live, and you should get an idea of why High Elves are offended by Talos worship, and also why the Khajiit are Thalmor aligned. Extermination is something that Tiber Septim did very well, the Aldmeri Dominion is a direct response to this. Also look into the et'ada, a god called Lorkhan, and what separates the 8 divines from the daedra. IMO Talos has no place next to Original Spirits like Mara who sacrificed themselves to create mundus, he belongs in the same category as Morrowind's Tribunal because of how he achieved divinity. The fact that in 4E 201 people still eat up people like Heimskr's BS is a damn disgrace. "The very idea is inconceivable to our Elven overlords! Sharing the heavens with us? With man?" Yeah dude that's a bit of a problem when a man becomes a god, it means he'didn't create the universe and therefore isn't a god. Do people who hear this think all gods are elves? Logic frankly doesn't matter, as long as it can be used for riling up ignorant Nords who hate elves. And all that runs on the assumption that humans and elves weren't sharing pantheons since Alessian times, which they were. Wanna know a good reason to go genocide elves? They're (allegedly) about to genocide you! Better do it preemptively.
@@tatwood93 That's a baseless claim. Talos can be a hero-god because he did great achievements for the mankind. No one can tell otherwise because he's a divinity for the mankind pantheons. If we follow that logic, then why Phynaster has to be a god? He wasn't one of the et'ada. He was a hero of Summerset Isles that for the altmer and many Elves, became a god. The talos ban is simply the resentment that the altmers have with Tiber Septim because he could conquered their beloved Alinor. Simple as that. His divinity is out of cuestion. Talos ban worship is simply the action of the Thalmor to finally subdue the humans and make chaos among them, consecuently putting them as inferior beings and proving that the altmers have been always "superior" than men. Is not about talos is a Divine or not (because he is, he's worshiped and he even gives you blessings) is only a cultural tactic that the Thalmor do to fulfill their plans of exterminating the humans and their culture. Simple as that. Nothing of talos not being a god because again, That's out of cuestioning.
@@JoseAlejandro-xc6fb "That's not true. Talos can be a god because he did achievements. You can't say otherwise because he's a god" nice circular logic bud lol. IMO Talos has no place next to Original Spirits like Mara who sacrificed themselves to create mundus, he belongs in the same category as Morrowind's Tribunal because of how he achieved divinity. IE regarded as the false god he is. Remember that the Tribunal gave a blessing and were considered gods during Morrowind, and their so-called divinity was easily stripped away. Using the heart of Lorkhan to make onesself a god or using a so-called "mechanical god" to subjugate elves does not put you on a level playing field with the creators of Nirn. If achievements made someone a god, then the Dragonborn would surely be canonized for defeating Alduin, but that's not the case because the Dragonborn has no access to the Heart of Lorkhan or profane tools. Nor did Pelinal, Reman, Alessia, etc. They just became saints. Tell me again, the story about Phynaster abusing the all-powerful heart of a god? Because if that's how he became divine, his worship is heretical as well.
@@demonslayereren3970 the imperials are fighting for talos as well. Theyre just much smarter at it because they realize they can keep the thalmor from knowing.
Well, no they cant be because we have the option to side with ulfric. Search up dragonbreaks. Every possible thing you do and could have done in Skyrim is canon
If elder scrolls 6 comes after 5 in the timeline, i think the civil war will be a dragon break. The victor will not be known but I think that somehow the thalmor will be driven out of skyrim, I doubt the devs would allow a beloved place to be taken over by the story antagonist
"All right. It's time to deliver the final blow to the Stormcloak rebellion. You have all fought bravely, and sacrificed much to bring us to this point. Ulfric thinks he can hide behind the walls of his castle. But we will fight our way in and drag him out through the rubble to face justice. Because this is the end for them, the Stormcloaks will fight like cornered rats. They will be fierce and crafty. But they are no match for Legionnaires. You are the best and the brightest warriors in Tamriel. Professional soldiers, fearless and devastating. The Emperor will be paying close attention to what happens here today. Men who distinguish themselves will be well rewarded. Ready now! Everyone, with me! For the Empire! For the Legion!" One of my favorite speeches from any game.
@@Nathan-mf2yz yeah but the quest line itself is boring too I mean there are maybe 3 quests that aren't just go to Fort X to win Hold Y Ah yes and the canon lore in the next TES will most likely be a) either both Tullius and Ulfric die in battle b) it's unresolved or c) the Legion that was trained and afterwards sent to Pale Pass but were blocked because of a lawine can get into Skyrim to end the war and let the Empire win
@@Nathan-mf2yz don't think that's what's gonna happen because TES always tries to have one canon timeline and never did that before but maybe it'll happen there's always a first time
I always liked the detail that everytime he comments on how the rebellion is a waist of lives. It feels nice seeing a general that seems to care for the common foot soldiers
@@averagecat4220 If I remember correctly, Elenwen is basically pressing Tulius that Ulfric should stand trial, while Tulias is saying that he is a threat to the peace of Skyrim and the Empire and they are to execute Ulfric on the spot.
I remember playing Skyrim for the first time and immediately joining the Stormcloaks. Because I had just finished New Vegas and when I saw The Imperials, my mind just went "CAESAR'S LEGION! CRUCIFIXION!"
This channel is so underrated. Realizing General Tullius' genius also takes whit because of all these puzzle pieces. Some say that you should join the Stormcloaks because the Empire would've executed you, but I believe overlooking this and siding with the Empire for Skyrim shows true selflessness and honor. I've seen a video that could've been Stormcloak propaganda with all the shallow analysis in it.
Also, it wasn't the Empire who ordered your execution. It was one Imperial Captain with a Giant's club up her ass. Remember this line? "Captain, he's not on the list" "Forget the list, he goes to the block" You weren't on the execution list. The Captain didn't care. Tullius was not informed of this. He even says when you join "Besides, I'm sure your being imprisoned was just a horrible misunderstanding." Which is exactly the case. The Dragonborn was in the wrong place, at the wrong time (or right time at least for the prophecy)
Not to mention, even if it wouldn't realistically help, the Stormcloaks could have said you weren't a part of their forces. Just as a... show of how they cared about the non-combatants lives. But instead they make no effort to try to save this innocent from an unnecessary execution.
2:50 Here is an interesting tough. Tullius intentionally works with the small Skyrim garrison for 2 reasons: 1. limit the scope of the war and with that the expenses to the empire and human life 2. Only involve locals. Make this a Skyrim civil war as much as possible and not an Imperial war fought against nords. In that case even if your side loses it's because your Countrymen chose the other side
Sadly, siding with the Stormcloaks is what made me side with the Imperials afterwards and immediatly regret my decision. There are many obvious bad aspects to the Stormcloaks that I could always find in the empire as well : bigotry, racism, being used by the Thalmor (White-Gold Concordat & Ulfric being manipulated), etc. But I long thought that the Stormcloaks were right to defend their land as I used to see them as the true victims in all of this. But most of them were actually being manipulated by Ulfric who was being manipulated by the Thalmor himself. He never had any plans for what would be to come after the civil war, he never had plans against the Thalmor, all he cared about was his little rebellion. What Stormcloaks fail to realize is that while they claim to wanna reclaim their land, there might not be a land to reclaim if the civil war goes on. And Skyrim's best bet against the Thalmor would be that the Empire doesn't have to fight on two different fronts. Stormcloaks fail to see all the intricacies and have no perspective. The Empire is already building up an army and preparing for another war against the Aldmeri Dominion. The Talos ban was never enforced to begin with and won't even be legally instituted once the Empire is ready to fight back and cancel the White-Gold Concordat. The Nords will have their land regardless of the outcome of the civil war, this whole rebellion was stupid to begin with. The Empire is more than the lesser of two evils, it's humanity's only chance against the Thalmor. What I love about the Skyrim civil war is that it shows to prove that not everything is as clear cut as it seems or as it's made to look. It reminds us that there's always something bigger at stake in many conflicts and that there many different people who take part in the problem. In order to best resolve it, it's important to take everything into account.
do u rlly think the nords would help the empire after they banned talos therell just be another ulfric and ulfric isnt even racist just most nords are, otherwise the greybeards wouldn't have trained him also the emperor in skyrims era would be dead the empire would fall apart eventually and stormcloaks will be there to pickup the pieces they should just side with the stormcloaks not the other way around ulfric is allowing him to surrender and probbly without the dragon borns interference theyre bound to win i bet
Ulfric isn't all that dumb tbh. His judgment is tremendously clouded because of his incorrect understanding of the cause of the Empire's defeat against the Dominion. I could write a great deal about Ulfric's motivation to personally reinstate Talos worship in violation of the WGC, but simply put, I'd say the Civil war could have been ended more amicably if there was an option to take the Thalmor dossier to Ulfric, so he could see his cause was misguided.
That a war hero was tortured by an enemy nation and fed bullshit misinformation and propaganda before being freed? ._. Oh wow that's such compelling evidence.
I initially sided with the stormcloacks because I started the game following Ralof cause we were on the chopping block, but I really respected Jarl Balgruuf of Whiterun and when Ulfric wanted to invade Whiterun, I knew I made the biggest mistake in the game and it still stands as my worse decisions in any game.
Correction: Alduin did not stop Ulfric's execution, the biggest idiot in Tamriel did. The captain that, despite knowing the importance of this execution, ignored pleas from Hadvar to let the player go and ordered the execution of some angry little nord guy and an unaffiliated, unknown prisoner before Ulfric (which, if the empire is moral, should be illegal, just executing someone that isn't listed for such a fate). Delphine may have had a point, the Thalmor plant wasn't Alduin, that brainlet captain was.
@@dirtyshinobii But if they would've kept the Dragonborn on hold and do the prisoners on the list first, they would've gotten rid of Ulfric. Basically write our name on the bottom and continue so far.
@@HappyBeezerStudios Yeah yeah, but they didn't expect a damn dragon to attack, Helgen was fortified and there were soldiers everywhere, so why would they execute Ulfric first? it was supposed to be their crowning victory, and I think they wanted to torment him as he watches them die, knowing he's next
So i noticed a theme in your videos, "Dont join the dark brotherhood" "Dont join the thieve's guild" "Dont join the nightingales" "Ulfric the idiot" ('dont join the stromcloacks') "Dont join the dark brotherhood" So your optimal playthrough is join the empire. Beat stormcloacks. Beat alduin. Some dlcs. Shelf skyrim.
Well he doesn't specifically say don't join them but just show how some ridiculous aspects of the game is either pretty underwritten or well written depends on how you see it. You could ignore those facts and make your own assumptions to roleplay the game. Like pretend that Ulfric is a genius and wants skyrim to be independent and safeguard his people
@@gemtownMANCHURIA ah yes, the same 'do 3 fetch quests and become the chosen one' that is copied and pasted for almost all the factions. Skyrim is by far the weakest elder scrolls game
@@gemtownMANCHURIA morrowind was also a bethesda game, they know how to make good stuff, they are just making very linear, accessible crap like skyrim to sell copies to 10 year olds.
