Why GTA 5's Grove Street is different from the one in GTA San Andreas 

i wish gta5 also had gang wars so as Franklin you can retake grove street

The worst change is the fact the whole south LA area is shrunk down to basically just grove st and the streets around it. In san andreas half the los santos map was based on south & east LA. In gta 5 its damn near not existant. Which is wack to me.

I think CJ left the gang life because he got older and realized gang isn’t worth it and left with his sister and I think Caesar left the gang life too and moved to San fierro. And CJ as you notice CJ owns his own toothpaste he probably left and began making new things and making new companies.

My thoughts. CJ had all the other ventures. He left them behind. Sweet got shot by a balla and the rival gang took over the grove. With the members who didn’t want to drop their flags having an open position as a head you started seeming more sets show up (around 1999 after sweet was shot and CJ keeping up with the casino partnership and maddogg’s career.) thus you have families dealin and striving for dominance

Many characters of GTA canon exist in both the 3D and HD universes so it's logical that there is a version of CJ somewhere and they heavily imply the events of San Andreas occurred with references to the 90s. CJ made it big at the end of SA and so he likely convinced Sweet to leave that life behind and go legit. They left GSF to those who didn't have the same vision and so the gang declined over time. Kendl likely moved to San Fierro with Cesar and he left the Aztecas behind.

I remember when gta 5 came out and when I played it for the first time the first thing I did was I went to grove street expecting the families to be posted up there, but then when I seen the ballas posted up on grove street I was like wtf 😂

Or... Grove Street basically grew out of gang life. With CJ, and his multiple businesses, they probably left their turf. And a power vacuum was created in which the Ballast quickly filled. Thoughts?

One time I got dialogue in the hood as Franklin a guy in a green helmet with a green shirt said yo you heard og Johnson bought the casino up near vinewood and the other guys said” yea yea yea”

Disappointing the house isn't even there and enterable. Is the street even Grove Street? It's like Rockstar hate the old games and characters that made them.

The real reason why Grove Street Families lost their turf to the Ballas was because they tore down the Ganton Courts housing projects. Just like in LA, many gangs that control housing projects majority members live or hang out in the projects then in the actual surrounding hood. With GSF you mostly had 2 clicks the PJs and the Grove Street click. I can tell most members lived in the projects. Fast forward 2013 from Ganton to Davis those projects are gone. The only active GSF were the ones on Grove Street. It make sense the Ballas kept dropping the last remaining members til they finally took over Grove Street. Just to let you know ain't no way in hell CJ took over the whole city, this ain't no corny Saints Row. If it was like that there wouldn't be any Ballas and Vagos in 2013. In GTA SA the only way to play the last mission of the game you only need to take a certain percent back. I still don't understand how Rockstar only added 1 housing project in GTA V. In GTA SA they had 7 housing projects.

Don't forget the fact that 3D and HD universe are completely different in some aspects. Usually events that happen prior and after the game do go across the universes (example of that being the pollution leak of 1988 and an oil tanker accident that happened somewhere around 2001, which causes water around LC to look oily and in the beginning, dangerous to swim in, which can later be observed in HD universe, where the water still looks really polluted and oily). However, events that happen directly through gameplay usually do not go across the universes. If Grove Street indeed did take over the entire LS, there would never be competition anymore. In HD universe, CJ most likely doesn't even exist, and even if he does, he would probably have a very minor influence, existing only as a, say, a face for advertisement or name on a book, or something like that. So we can also assume that in upcoming GTA 6, Tommy Vercetti and his big operation would have never happened, but that doesn't mean Vice City doesn't have problems with sharks and hurricanes, so bridges being closed at some point, and you needing to find alternative ways might very well be a thing.

I reckon CJ's still going as a businessman working with Woozy, Madd Dogg, Cesar & Kendl. You can tell his mind was made up about leaving the hood behind when he picked Sweet up from prison. He tried to get Sweet to come along with it, but Sweet was having none of it so he tried to rebuild the hood to try and win Sweet over. After the end of the story, with all his enemies out of the picture, CJ decided he wanted a fresh start and to take full advantage of the business connections he'd made. You can tell at the end when he says he's going to take a walk around the block. He likely decided during that walk, he wanted to put him and his business interests above the hood and being a gangbanger. He'd have likely moved away and out of Grove Street if not LS entirely. Over time, Sweet would have likely gotten more annoyed that CJ was putting his business interests above that of the hood as well as constantly being away from it. He'd also likely still be mad at Kendl for going out with someone who wasn't from Grove St gang. CJ & Kendl would have likely made numerous attempts to get Sweet on board but Sweet would have refused as he's incapable of seeing that there's more to the world than Grove Street and the gang. This would eventually lead to CJ & Kendl cutting ties with Sweet or at the very least distancing themselves from him so they don't get drawn in to the gang violence again. Judging by the fact that Grove Street is Ballas controlled by 2013, Sweet is either dead or incarcerated due to being unable to see a life beyond being a gangbanger. So the gang would have had no leadership which would have meant the remaining homies would have fled, died or moved over to the Ballas. CJ would have no interest in intervening at this point as he no longer wants to risk his life when he has better options with his business connections & no real ties to Grove St anymore. All the others will have all just moved on with their lives, capitalising on the business connections made in the SA story.

GSF ogs died out. CJ couldn’t care less about gang bangin, and that’s is crystal clear in SA ending. He had better things going on. Sweet probably ended up like Emmet did, at least in terms of mentality. He was a solo survivor and stood for something that wasn’t there anymore. If you look carefully, Emmet is the perfect parallel to Sweet. He was an old school Families member in a hood that wasn’t anymore Orange Families for a very long time. But Sweet had CJ and probably was taken along by his brother lifestyle in the end. GSF new generation of gangsters had no links to the families at all. These younger guys probably tried to emulate CJ rags to riches by dealing dope and somehow that ended with a Ballas set in Grove Street.

The drugs were probably the biggest reasons the families lost to the ballas a lot of the families probably realized drug dealing was where the money was at

I like to think all the events in the 3D universe took place in the HD as well, the only difference really being the names of certain things. Onto my actual theory for the fall of the Grove Street Families. Some time after the events of GTA SA, CJ and Sweet both started to have more responsibility. The Ballas perform a drive by on Sweets house injuring him, infront of his kids. CJ would visit Sweet at the hospital only to see Sweet's Girlfriend and Children both looked distraught with tears in their eyes. CJ would ask them step out of the room so he could be with his brother he would say "Sweet, I understand you said you would die in the hood, but you got kids now do you really want this kind of life for them?" Sweet would reply "I don't know anymore, I want to see my kids grow but if I continue on like this, it ain't gonna happen. But it goes against my principle." CJ would interject "What happened to your principle against Drugs man, the whole neighborhood is full of baseheads, if we keep this up where are our kids gonna be if this is the environment they grow up in?" Sweet replied "I know, but this is our home man, it always will be so I don't want to give it up" CJ then said "Man, look your kids deserve better they could have better. Live a quiet life its time we hang this gangbangin shit up" Sweet would reply "CJ you're right, where will we go though?" CJ said "Somewhere we ain't gonna be walking around with a target on our backs, maybe move east get out of San Andreas or move out into the country outside of San Fiero so we'll be close to our sister." I think at some point CJ was able to convince Sweet to give up the gang life, without much leadership the Families would split up into new sets, forming the sets we know in GTA 5, the other gangs who were weaker would have reformed and like vultures start pecking at the remains of the Grove Street Claims in Los Santos. Sweet and CJ would have moved, Maybe into a gated community as they could afford it with CJ having several Legit businesses in the State of San Andreas and a stake in a Casino.

I think the reason why there isn't any gang wars in gta 5 is because of lore reasons and not lazy programming. Since it was mentioned before in the early missions involving Franklin and lamar (the mission where they kidnap some baller) it was stated that they didn't have beef with families Stretch after the giant shootout in the warehouse even said that they could be at risk of an entire gang war because of Franklin's and Lamar's failed kidnapping and the shootout they just got out of

Because GTA 5 and SA don't take place in the same universe

What I think what happened: since the houses look different on grove street in GTA V than San Andreas, I think a neighborhood injunction probably happened on grove street somewhere in between the years of 1993-2004. For anyone who doesn’t know what a neighborhood injunction is, it’s a strategy used by the city/property owners to drive out any criminal activity in said neighborhood, SWAT Teams and ATF will come through and kick doors down strip search people/homes and put red tags on doors aka “VACATE THE PREMISES” notices, after grove street was abandoned they tore majority of the houses down and built new ones over, the same thing happened in a neighborhood that I live in right now, at some point in 2004-2010 the Ballas must have moved in after the injunction and claimed the territory, makes sense on why CJ’s Mom’s house isn’t there anymore.

I think that sweet got killed and CJ Kendal and Cesar move out of the hood if you remember, CJ didn’t want anything to do with the gang life anymore, sweet was probably killed

If we think about the fact that this whole gang story about gsf vs ballas is based on the crips vs bloods i think it went something like this, after cj takes over LS, cj becomes a celebrity and a bilionaire once some years passes and the 2000s came, most of the OG's moved out of the sets and most of them went to vinewood or better areas in LS, at this point grove street got abbandoned by the gsf and the remaining ballas took over the turf, to the other hand the remaining grove street families (and all them other sets) once their leader (sweet) was gone re established the families and took a new turf, i believe this because Gerald didn't wanted a war between the ballas and the feds, there's a reason why the feds doesn't want that the families and the ballas goes to war again, they don't want this to be repeated again as it did in 1992 in gta san andreas

All you had to do was pay the damn mortgage, CJ.

CJ was definitely not a coward he probably just knew there was no future in it💯

They should’ve jus made San Andreas part 2

CJ and Sweet is a lot like Franklin and Lamar. One guy wants to grow beyond the ganglife, and the other only knows ganglife.

CJ was a different man by the end of GTA: SA. CJ let the gang life go when he got his stake in the 4 Dragons Casino and became Madd Dogg's manager. CJ only got back involved because that's what Sweet wanted. CJ may've taken over Los Santos but he and Cesar left the gang life behind for good and Ballaz were still able to be seen in Grove turf even after that. Mike Toreno most likely helped the Ballaz and the Vagos get their turf back with help from the Rifas and even force the Groves out.

Cj didn't leave Denise behind he was ran out of town by tenpenny

Thank you and thank goodness for 😅your videos 😊

I heard its because of the hidden spindlelint script that everyone has seen yet only few know about. It's truly a genius thing they did over at Rockstar adding that it leads you to the Goblet of Queefing.

Checking in with you Los. Hope you and the Family doing good💯💚 🔥🔥 ass content to fam

I know they use the whole different universe thing to kinda erase the past. But I still like to think alot are still connected. In GTA SA when the LS riots are going you have to take a certain amount of territory so I try to recreate the GTA 5 hoods the best I can. Everything south and west of the train tracks goes to the families which sets up the GTA 5 lines pretty well. And all this happened because CJ was loyal to his brother but after big smokes betrayal CJ wanted nothing to do with the hood life because he made a life outside of the hood which he struggled to do for his whole life. So after tenpenny death CJ continued his life. He would still be there for his brother but because money an power is key to the gang life sweets days as a leader we're always going to be numbered. So he ether got killed or arrested. And with both gangs being decimated from the bloodshed of GTA SA I can't imagine whole lot of territory has changed since then besides Grove Street which lost it leader. I think every hood has there own group of leader the build up all the gangs in the city. The ones that refuse to change got weakened like Grove Street while the rest adapted and survived like the rest of the family in GTA 5 and with the death of tenpenny the corruption that allowed the gangs to run the way they did was eliminated so any gang wars quickly attracted the heat of the LSPD so gang war became bad for business so most of the gangs stop fighting an just managed there own territory focused on money then killing. In my playthrough it don't make much sense for the families to attack the vargos because there immediate relations on mostly Netrual sweet I don't think even recognize the vargos in GTA SA so I leave the Vargos alone an just focus on the ballas when the story make sense for it to take territory. But with out CJ and sweet the days of keeping the good clean was only going last so long. But that how I play San Andreas an shape it to lead up to GTAV.

But grove street will live forever, grove street 4 life, families 4 life 🤘

Gta v was cool but I liked how you could go inside restaurants and eat, go to he gym and learn martial arts like boxing and kick boxing on level 2, even inside the hospitals and jails, from sa to iv

When playing as franklin on gta v if you get on bleeter I believe you'll see a Ballsac member saying "thanks for giving up GS"

The Families, The Aztecas, The Vagos, and The Ballas got too old to fight each other. Many of them died or got jailed. After CJ drive out the Vagos and Ballas, the two remaining gangs just broke up after recruiting dried up and “the kids” grew up and got too old for gang life.

This video would be true if not for the rest of Gta san andreas. CJ went from coward to OG. He cleaned Grove ST, had a lot of support, and took over LS by the end. Rockstar just went lazy on gang lore.

I made a deathmatch named grove street throw down in the OG days of GTA Online. I spent a lot of time there

Is San Andreas coming out with a part 2, I hope they continue this series cause it was so fun

Gtav should have Gang wars DLC

The events are GTAV and GTA San Andreas also occurred in different universes, hence why they also look different. Grove Street in San Andreas looked completely wider than GTAV and in GTAV there is no bridge that went over Grove Street like in San Andreas.

if cj saw his brother die and already feels guilty, blaming him the second he got back was a clear indication of why he ran away, cj didn’t need to hear all that shit when he was in pain too…

I see it clearly now, Cj figured out he was in a video game and ran away, AGAIN.

I've always believed that the events of the old GTA games are canon in the new timeline, but the old games were an exaggeration of what really happened. Probably, CJ left Los Santos, and while he was gone Sweet got popped and all of the surviving Ballas did an attack on Grove Street.

On a personal note I think Rockstar should have just connected the 3D universe to the HD universe that way they could show us that time has past in the GTA universe hell even connect the Top-down universe to it would have made GTA deeper storywise

People have to understand that the 3D universe is completely separate to the HD universe. Dan and Sam Houser said so. That's why there's no continuity of characters, story or lore. None of the characters from these universes cross over. The only one is Lazlow, and that's only because he was part of the production team.

my question is what happened to the overpass and the street right next to grove street

I mean hell by the end of SA who was even left to run the Grove? Half of them was dead or sold out and the other half took the money they made from the book of songs and ran out the hood to live the high life.

Tenpenny was based on Rafael Perez,so yeah there was someone like that

3d universe and HD universe are two separate universes with different decisive events happening for each establishment, organization and/or gang. the Johnson family might as well wouldn't have existed in HD universe. Or maybe they did, but one thing is for sure that the events of GTA San Andreas or generally 3d universe (including events of GTA 3 in LC and GTA VC in VC) are drastically different. I don't know why many people choose to just ignore this fact and make absurd theories about it

I think Carl has been a CEO now and moved out of LS

I was literally just thinking about the question the other day and this video found me on the algorithm…

taking over groove is one thing but hood looks nothing like it used to houses are gone completely

Did anyone try searching cemetery for Johnson family? Their mother, Sweet or CJ thombstone?

I think R* just do things like this to generate buzz and get people talking about their games for years to come.

What I never understood was why CJ's family's house was so damn huge on the outside? Why wasn't there even so much as a small backyard? That house was way too big for the street.

"YOU'VE PICKED THE WRONG STREET FOOLS" -Big Smoke

They should of made CJ related to Franklin

Jack from Eastenders is Claude , that’s mad, then the video talks about crooked cops, which jack plays in Eastenders, spooky lol

0:53 Rockstar are the exact definition of party poopers

I think Denise from gta 5 is Denise from gta San Andreas tbh 1) think about it she was young in 1992 and now she could’ve possibly got older. 2) both Denise’s live in families territory. 3) Denise from Sa promoted gang violence nd Franklin Denise Also promoted it in the mission hood safari and was telling Franklin he needa support his homies more

Grove Street got gentrified in the game as that area did in real live, got to keep it as real as possible 💯

Rockstar ia full of shit for not lettin us know what the fuck happened

They can still be the same universe. 20 years happened between San Andreas and GTA5. CJ could have easily been betrayed and killed, then the traitors could have reformed the Ballas, perhaps with help from other remaining crooked cops. Or hell CJ could have just died of natural causes or in an accident. Or he could have just moved away to San Fierro or Las Venturas, where he had business and gfs, and died there (again, coulda been naturally or not), then traitors kill Sweet and reform the Ballas. The latter is possible, CJ in the final scene leaves everyone coldly when they were talking about all they learned, saying when asked where he's going "just gonna walk around the block, see what's popping" or something like that. So like the video says, I wouldn't be surprised if he just got sick of it all and left. But it could still be the same timeline, 20 years is a long time. Edit: another possibility, mixing theories together: CJ tries to leave, gets killed by a traitorous faction along with his family, then the traitorous faction revives the Ballas and/or lets them reappear (which is as easy as the 90s kids of the dead Ballas becoming adults in the 2010s, reviving their fathers' gang and getting revenge, thanks to the power vacuum created by Grove Street infighting - not to mention, the demobilization and/or encarceration of many of the GS crews).

Great video but I'm pretty sure CJ and Denise didn't meet until AFTER he came back from running away

Basically 21 years passed...

You a buster 🔫 Grove Street 4 life 💚

Cjs running a casino, managing Maddogs career and a part time CIA operative. And swimming in cash. He won't waste no time being a lowlife Grove street gangsta.

I think u got the date Rong mate it was 2004 and 205 .this game was released mate

Love the original design of Grove Street and surrounding areas. Wish they kept it the same as it doesn't make sense how it could have changed so much. Plus, it would have brought back all the great memories, give a sense of familiarity and it should have actually looked like Grove Street tbh. But then again they said the hd universe and 3d universe are seperate so... 🤷‍♂️

No neighborhood is the same after almost 30 years man

grove st needs their own game,kinda like san andreas but more in depth with the gangsta shit

A lot can change over 20 years.

I really don't understand why all the different games have different universes. They made the games so much more complicated to understand for absolutely no reason

Its simple. Bcoz of this universe isnt tied to 3D universe which is VC,SA and 3.

i kinda do wish they where in the same universe but when grove street peaked like that they would not have fallen just like that it proabbly took some time before they did

Great facts, Gta is what i grew up on.

Ball sacks is crazy no debate

“See told you he was a busta”

Yes, GTA 5 is my favorite in the series, no matter how much the boomers love GTA 4. However, maybe I was too young, but GTA SA hits different. I have heard this from other players as well, when they took away CJ from Los Santos to "some county", we were genuinely missing the characters and city back in Los Santos, I wish I could just reply and have the same feeling again.

It’s because nobody sees the Easter egg that is the entire grove st maybe one day instead of driving around at 200mph you’ll drive slowly in and out of grove street paying attention to graffiti and you’ll notice something

Basically the old ps2 gta games are from the 3D universe and the newer onces (IV and V) are from the HD universe.

gta 5 grove street; LOOK WE INCLUDED IT YOOOO CASH GRAB!!

Honestly Denise Clinton could have dated CJ back in the 90s. That would connect her to GTA lore. There's no proof that Denise doesn't know CJ.

good idea but in gta sa cj started buying up businesses like the auto shop and getting out of the gang life. it was only sweet that brought him back so what if his heart was not into it anymore because he found a better way. also i sware there was a sign or a billboard about cj being a model or owning a model agencie.

Basically Rockstar was lazy didn't want to have to remake all of GTA SA and basically sat us down and was like son have I ever told you about alternate reality theory

Okay, so hear me out. I have 3 questions: 1- anyone else here play (or used to play) gta5 online? 2- do any of you have an arcade? And if yes to both of those, then 3- have you ever payed attention to the NPC who hangs out by the entrance? Like specifically, who he looks like? I know i can't possibly be the only one who thinks he looks like CJ...

Bc of big smoke and possibly also ryder thats why

They need a gta sandreas sequal we need to see what happened

BALLA OGs Ren them off BALLAS 4LIFE

+ The Ballas had connections with cops & the FIB

I'm trying to figure out. Who is LB That ryder kept talking about

Ryder is thee only person in the whole game to call CJ a busta… you legit could’ve found 10+ instances of Ryder vocalizing this. But man’s created or found a drawing of Big Smoke and made up a voice of him saying something he never called CJ… Please tell me this was to troll for engagement and to have people comment as such for the algorithm. Cause this bugged me!

I mean 21 years passed between San Andreas and V. The Ballas could have regrouped and retook territory in LS since CJ took the city over

Derogatory terms for the ballas. BK, RHBK, FYK, TDBK, KTBK, Ball sacks, Ball Pushers, Ball-Less Ball Suckers. 😂

I think once you beat San Andreas and go back to Grove Street the Ballas already took it over if im not mistaken

Franklin should be the new leader of Groove Street. Also if he and Denise were related to CJ then their names would be CJ, DJ, and FJ. xD Idk the sound of that.

Given how R* treated the Lost in V, it's probably for the best they didn't touch the 3D Universe at all. Imagine the outrage if Trevor had killed CJ in a cutscene a la the Lost...Now my whole idea is based on R*'s idea that it's seperate canons/universes, so hear me out. To me I like to think CJ moved on with his life, he likely ran away from his problems again, it makes sense to me he'd go back to LC and want to get away from all of his issues. Which leaves the door open for the GSF to fracture and rival sets to vie for power and more importantly, money. Sure, Smoke is dead, Ballas are dead, but GSF also has a giant, giant target for that, Ballas are likely going to be pissed at GSF massacring them, and want to get even with them. So you have a fracturing gamg (remember the different sets from SA?) and everyone who CJ wronged or hurt or killed. That's a hell of a lot of people with a lot of power. I don't think the Ballas took over Grove Street as easily as people think. I think the LSPD got quite a few of them. In RL, CRASH carried on past 1992 or several years after all, even now the LAPD has issues with corruption. For all we know there are other Tenpenny like cops out there and to me it makes sense with how the LSPD is portrayed, that someone else filled the spot Tenpenny's death left, and blamed GSF or that, then set about being hell bent on eradicating GSF, and the Ballas were wanting to eradicate the GSF as well but don't match up to what is, in the game at least, a gang with a badge and a blatant disregard for the law. LSPD can move in and take out gang members and keep them off the streets. Ballas can't. Then you got the other factions all wanting a piece of GSF too. To me, I feel like over a number of years, the LSPD chippe away at or outright killed, the GSF members and weakened them, and the Ballas siezed the moment to take Grove Street. In addition, I think the drugs were a huge factor. Even if the ballas didn't want to directly assault Grove Street/GSF they had the means and the money, even without Smoke, to push a shitload of drugs into Grove Street, weakening the GSF by making them into adicts an unable to fight back

To games existed in different universes and we're not in Canon

Sweet walked into an obvious trap and GSF was on the verge of collapse before CJ came back. If CJ left then Sweet’s days were numbered.

I like to think that gta 5 is a different timeline that CJ didn't come back to LS in 1992 and left the hood life and is still in Liberty City. He just moved on shit like that happens.

What about the shape of the street?