Hey there. Big fan. In your previous video you stated that the automatons were getting close to Super Earth and that people were asking the community to let them in because it would end the game. In HD1 that was not the case, it only ever unlocked a new game mode. Is there any indication that it would be the case on HD2?
For me, HD is like *Warframe* in another corset strapped. > Weapons in WF *should be* similar what you *should* find in HD,... It is for me like self-castration, what they do, to their own game. > Even THE selling point of the game falls flat with EACH of this sort of changes.
I agree with everything. I think the loop should be as follows: 1. Super earth forces have powerful weapons ---> we annihilate enemy forces 2. Enemy forces adapt to super earth firepower with new and improved bots/mutated bugs 3. Super earth forces do not have tools super great at dealing with new enemies and struggle 4. Super earth releases new warbond and weaponry capable of assisting in dealing with the enemy forces 5. Super earth also releases new mission types Rinse and repeat one whatever timescale is plausible. The main idea being do not nerf the weapons but rather add difficulty via new enemies and content. Maybe (emphasis on maybe) adjusting enemies that have been around as needed.
This would make a lot of sense. Other things like the armour passives also help various aspects of play juuuust into a comfortable range. They're the closest thing we have to upgrades for now.
I always thought the teamwork design for this kind of game, was ROLE BASED combat. Having a dude handle tanks, have a dude handling chargers, etc, etc... you want that Spear to kill the hulks every time because it only has four rounds. He needs to be THAT GUY. You want the Flamethrower guy to be the Anti-Charger in the squad. You want the recoilless to have impact, so someone else can run an HMG/Arc Thrower/Stalwart and still feel like there aren't a bunch of enemies everywhere he can't kill. But the game doesn't let you play this way because the high TTK and low ammo just forces everyone to feel like they have to blow their whole kit on every encounter.
Having to run and feel weak every time. Like that one crazy boss who first evaluates how hard his workers can work and then sets bar 25% higher than that so they'll never reach "ideal" It is literally what spear and most weapons are about. Hulk has 1250 hp, spear has 1000 damage. It's just a fuсking joke
"Okay, guys we just survived the first bug breach of the mission, sound off your ammo! Yeah. Okay. Out...out...infinite?...out...well, only two of us can resupply fully for next breach, sorry Shaun, guess you just have to take a redeploy to participate." This is how it feels.
They're also just not understanding players will not be huddled together anymore like in HD1- it's no longer top-down PoV so everyone now has peripheral vision and tunnel vision; the play field is larger; players are not sharing the same, scroll locked, screen; everyone uses more space from each other to mitigate the incredibly easy friendly fire. It's not reasonable to expect players to handicap themselves to be pack mules for each other's ammo (because allowing team reloading from the user's own backpack would be too convenient, no 2P has to be the one wearing 1P's ammo)- whoever is on CC is going to want to dedicate themselves to do that role well otherwise the squad gets overrun by mobs, they can't afford to drop that task because the armor hunter can't kill anything quickly without somebody giving them a reassuring pat on the shoulder and because all their tools only greatly wound targets. It feels like the TTK seems reasonable to the devs on things like the Recoilless or Spear because they must think players are tandem reloading and looking at those metrics to say "this is fine". But these are the same people who claim to be surprised about the 'charger leg meta' developing when they put a 200% damage zone under the breakable leg armor and a 10% damage zone on the only unarmored part on the body (while having the nerve to call that the weak spot). It devolves into everyone has to bring armor killing weapons because the anti-armor needs too much time and ammo to kill fast enough to keep those elites under control. Because hypothetically 4 people with a total of 24 recoilless shots gets more done than 2 people being needed to fire 6 a tiny bit faster when everything needs 2-3 rounds to kill; this makes the primaries designed to be bad at killing chaff feel extra bad and useless. Stratagems like the railcannon strike are entirely useless because they don't even function as a "delete a big dude" button- doesn't kill the enemy, assuming it doesn't decide to target scenery objects or something small (I've had them consistently target the oil rigs in PoI's over bile titans and pick a basic devastator over an adjacent hulk or tank), then goes into a 3 minute cooldown...so nothing's dead and you're down a tool for what actually is a long time when the flood of enemies is on top of you.
I feel like the spear is so overrated, sure it deal big damage and auto lock but the recoiless can do the same but have more ammo so better team reload. And the recoiless can be use POINT BLANK instead of needing distance like the Spear.
That's why on bots, I just bring heavy laser cannon and stun grenades. Laser can be used to kill every single enemy (some fairly slowly) and provide support to faraway friends. Only issue is no stagger. I prefer not to fight bugs.
I really think it's funny how bad the anti weapons are at killing tanks. They talk so much about the "fantasy" of the weapons of which literally everyone would say an anti tank weapon would one shot a tank yet they 2-3 shot things because of the over complicated damage system effectively adding rng to every shot. It's just annoying especially seeing how it's absolutely deliberate that they make everything take just that one more shot than you expect. It's surprising how weak that makes you feel.
@@9000k4absolutely. I loved using Spear against bots. Hulks, tanks, chargers, and possibly behemoth chargers should be one shot by the Spear considering it's abysmal ammo count
And let's remember that the earlier versions of the game saw those anti-armor weapons literally bouncing off chargers, the primary armored enemy those things are billed as being made to kill. Then they all scratched their heads to why we all went heavy on the Railgun, which was the only gun they gave us that exceeded those hidden armor values.
There's an old game called chrome hounds that really played with the concept of "chemical" versus kinetic ammunition. Chemical weapons were HE and HEAT rounds that did all their damage on hit, but they were more expensive, had less total ammo, etc. Kinetic rounds were normally AP rounds, they were plentiful cheap, but suffered damage falloff and never had splash
@@joyless95As an Armored Core veteran who also played Chromehounds back in the day, they are entirely different games. Some similarities, but CH plays very differently and has a much more military-style campaign and mission structure. The movement and weapons feel practically nothing alike, with much more manual control than Armored Core and the vehicles generally being quite slow and specialized. Still fun, though.
imagine being an actual soldier from super earth and seeing these stats. It's devastating as a military person, fighting on the frontline, to think you might die mauled by aliens because ''well, three mags was too much to grant you, it made you too strong against the aliens''
To be fair it's pretty in-character for Super Earth to make everything running at bare minimum. Hellbombs can't be armed remotely, ammunition is donated from civilians, legroom in Eagle is used for more ordnance, destroyer crew is given drugs to work more effectively etc.
@@CCA.C17.SQL.02IdotI mean we cant perpetually be low on supply. Make it an event where super earth is low on supply, especially when we lost a bunch of planets or when enemies purposely cut our supply lines.
If monumental hordes of enemies are going to be thrown at us, then they can't be super tanky, and we can't constantly have no ammo (either from running out, or needing to reload ever 3 seconds). Its really that simple, if there are going to be hundreds of enemies, they can't all need so many shots to kill.
I think just making enemies slower would DRASTICALLY make this game better. Primarily chargers/titans. Just add a mechanic that lets you slow them down... For example chargers losing their ability to sprint if you break their leg. Chargers are IMO the main cause of no one working as a team. They're too fast for how tanky they are. Or they at least need to make it so you can reliably kill them by shooting them in the ass (which would increase teamwork for aggro).
@@whatNtarnation90 It would help somewhat in terms of allowing player's to actually be able to deal with enemies but it doesn't deal with the real issue. The lack of effective weapons and tools to specifically deal with hordes of enemies in a timely manner and being forced to run turns it into a slog.
@@whatNtarnation90Or just make chargers a bit less homing. People who say they're easy to deal with just play the crap out of the game to get good muscle memory on where the charger can and can't turn. But for anyone actively LOOKING for that timing, it's beyond inconsistent. Or do what my brother THOUGHT worked, and disable the turning if you shoot them in the face to blind them. But even that becomes a huge issue when you're fighting like 5
@@jackbishop8610 cHaRgErS r Ez tO DeAl WiTh. If you have the ammo, time, aren't bogged down and so on. The bs about this game at high difficulty is that its really not even worth it. Its kitedivers because my stratagems are always on cooldown and my anti tank options are too unreliable/too little ammo to put a dent in the amount of chargers the game sends after me. Best strategy is to rush objectives and avoid/kite enemies because fighting the 4 chargers the game spawned often turns into 12, 4 bile titans, and 2 impalers...
I agree flinching is annoying as you get hit by a termid takes 3 attempts to stim before it registers. The ragdoll also need to cool down as well. As soon as you get hit by the implailer you can't do anything, your just bounced around until you die.
You hear a "hiss" and you get staggered. Nope your stim did not work. So you try again. Staggered by another enemy. Again. Rag dolled by another enemy. Try get up and stim... you are rag dolled...
@@CCA.C17.SQL.02IdotWow thanks genius who the fuck would have ever thought of that!? It's not like they have a massive AOE to their attacks that still knock you down anyways! OH WAIT THATS RIGHT THEY DO HAVE THAT! I swear to God none of you actually play the game and just scream random shit.
Arrowhead feels like those antagonizing GMs in tabletop RPG who want to "win" the game against the players, as opposed to everyone having fun together.
Granted a bad GM can also let players walk all over them too. You have to strike a middle ground on making sure players don’t ruin what you are going for and letting them have fun
agreed, almost as if Arrowhead devs are seeing guys with 500-1000 hours of gameplay absolutely dominate a mission on Helldive and make reactionary, ego-driven changes to the difficulty to make it harder for THEM IN PARTICULAR with no to little consideration being give to the average player. I just think there are SO MANY adjustments to the damage weapons do with very few people complaining about the game being too easy for there to be any other explanation. They're making the adjustments for the top percentile of players whose whole life has been this game since release. It's like a dev designing a game, seeing someone speedrun it and getting offended and defensive at how easy it was for this person who spent an insane amount of time learning everything there is to know about the game and exploiting it.
I am looking at the whole situation from the sidelines, specifically out of the mines of the Deep Rock Galactic, and it makes me really thankful for the Ghostship's development philosophy. Because major weapon nerfs are almost unheard of, and increases of time to kill on any individual enemy, regular ones or the bosses, almost cease as soon as you get to difficulty level 3 out of 6. And sure, you get cut down to size real quick by numbers, aggression and raw damage potential of every enemy as you climb the difficulty, but you never stop feeling like a supremely deadly vertically challenged son of a gun.
I think they could make Behometh charges bleed out from an anti tank to the face instead of instantly dying. It would be a good way to make them unique without invalidating antitanks as an option
Exactly. 2-shots to instantly get rid of a behemoth, 1-shot to bleed out, and 1-shot to strip leg armor would balance Behemoths. Railguns should be able to strip Charger leg armor in 1 unsafe shot and Behemoth leg armor in 2-unsafe shots. Please buff Railgun Arrowhead 😭
They should remove damage fall on rockets so that we didn’t need to use an annoying exploit to one shot leg armor. They also need to increase their damage. I don’t think they should be one shotting behemoths in the face because that defeats the point of Behemoths being a stronger variant of the regular chargers, but the rockets should definitely be a lot stronger then they currently are.
Anti-tank rockets should open whatever body part you hit so that your team can take advantage of it. You know, kind of adding value to the entire squad mechanic...
Agreed, getting hit by hunters is 80% lethal because once hit, your damn gun fires off into the ether meaning you can't shoot the hunter until your aim has come back, oh but by that point your already fucking dead cause the hunters can 3 shot you in just about a second, maybe even 2 or 1 shot you if they get a headshot which is not a hard thing for them let's be honest.
Try getting peak points. Always stays under cover. Try gettin lower or higher ground on them. Btw, i think devastators that have shields or minigun shouldnt require medium pen, since they already have a Shield to protect them
@@brunomonteiro7788 Those are things that veteran helldivers know by heart, they keep shooting and walking towards you so you can't even peak and take pot shots at it because it will make you flinch and miss, specially when there are more than one + rockets flying, bot's get all sorts of buffs on accuracy while we get weapons that kicks like a mule and have penalties for shooting from afar, while they deal exactly the same damage from all distances.
Breakpoints for a PvE game is key to nailing down the effectiveness of weapons and equipment, you can't just give a weapon 5 more damage and expect it to just magically be good, it has to nail a certain breakpoint for what you want it to do. Always gotta use DRG as an example but they carefully balanced their weapons around some breakpoints making sure certain weapons that pack a massive punch can easily two shot most mobs in the game, even many weapons have to be above the swarmed health breakpoint unless the gun has a ton of ammo then it's made to two shot the tiny enemies you are fighting, it even plays into ammo econ too as you can do the math in your head quickly about how much ammo you will be spending on certain enemies you are made to pick off in a fight to help deal with problem targets.
DRG is kinda terrible example since enemy HP and damage breakpoints fluctuates willdly with haz level and squad size. They just make sure that slow weapons like shotguns oneshot shit in the head and its working.
@Steir12 Their balance in the game is based on a 4 player lobby on hazar 4, pretty much hard difficulty before the stuff that hazard 5 brings in, still the breakpoints argument stay the same since that's their baseline for how their weapons should perform.
In DRG, the weapons are designed around hitting breakpoints. In HD2, the weapons are designed to fall short of hitting breakpoints. One feels rewarding, one feels antagonizing. I'll let you figure out which is which.
The breakpoints aside, in DRG they let you use terrain to your advantage and specifically give you tools for terrain manipulation and manoeuvrability. In HD2 they saw divers using the highpoints to their advantage and just.... forced players to stop being able to move the drop pods over to high points. HD2 just want players to play their game within their narrow boundaries and don't actually reward players for creativity. If Warframe had done this, it would not be as successful as it has been because bullet jump literally came from players being creative with the limited moveset at launch using a bug called coptering. Even though it was an exploit, warframe devs saw how players loved it and built upon that enjoyment.... the result is WF's famous bullet jump.
“The problem is not that too many heavies spawned, but rather the tools were ineffective at dealing with them.” This right here. The design philosophy is at odds with itself. There’s no arbitrary power level system in Helldivers, it’s all about bringing the right tool for the job, but most of the tools don’t work well.
I want the Contra setup. Glass cannon guys running around destroying everything but also can easily be destroyed when caught out. Still human, but doing what humans do best, using technology to overcome instead of slightly subdue.
That's the reason i bought the game because it felt like this at launch. Armor didn't work, rockets dealt way too much damage to you, you got headshotted by bugs' claws. You were paper thin and expendable as explained in the tutorial but it felt hilarious and in theme because you knew you were as dangerous to them as they were to you.
@@xandaer13 Honestly the one shot rockets was the most fun period of the game. Getting ragdolled is just less fun than simply playing the game like a tac shooter
I feel that Orbitals and Eagles strikes really epitomize the "glass cannon" aspect. You should be as much a threat to yourself and teammates as you are to the enemy.
I read the doc and I have two further small changes that need to happen, we need a freaking minimap marker for resupply pods and we need to have the ability to team reload without having to have the back pack. What I mean, we get a charger/bile Titan and my buddy has a recoiless gun and backpack, I should be able to go on him and reload by taking the rounds from his back pack and loading them to his gun. Same for every back pack weapon.
If they want to make the game harder, they should look to improving the enemies overall strength like what they did by adding the impaler. The enemies of democracy should get stronger, but we should too and not get nerfs unless it breaks the game in two
Well, flamers did. Like you could cook charger faster than you need to reload a recoiless, an anti-tank weapon, and still deal with the small bugs too. The problem is that they overtuned the flamers early on because of the bug of DoT not applying if you were not the host. They buffed it twice by huge amount. Then, when it got fixed i was expecting a nerf, but it didn't. And then they waited several months when everyone learned to cherish and love flame thrower to finally do something about. They didn't even nerfed the damage, just the fact that it does not goes through armor anymore.
like having heavy devastators actively block your shots with there shields like how the Hulks do in HD1, I can tell that this would really piss alot of players off on the bot front
@@clnetrooper it wouldn't have been an issue if behemoth chargers were not added into the normal enemy pool. Anti tanks were able to compete with the flamethrowers high damage output because it was just a oneshot to the head. It would balance itself out for the most part, as chargers could easily be dealt with by both support weapons, but the flamethrower would be better for mobbing and would fall short dealing with enemies like titans, something AT's deal with pretty well compared to the flamethrower
it weird how they advertise this game where you are bunch of rich dude using OP weapons to fight for super earth and yet all we do in the game and how the game is designed....is to avoid fighting as much as possible oh u want rare sample?? too bad it mostly in enemies outpost that require you to destroy but you will get hammered if you trigger enemies alarm and patrols will coming to your location it so contradict with each other that i baffled "do AH know what they even want in this game?"
@@ZzVinniezZ It's... Propaganda... That was the joke... Have you never seen a propagandistic enlistment video...? Or are you just intentionally ignoring that part of Helldivers...
Then I suppose the orbital lasers, barrage, automated sentries, heavy weapons, and suped up A-10 should amount to nothing compared to an auto-shotty that shoots white phosphorus.
@@CCA.C17.SQL.02Idot Cluster bomb that you wont ever use because you need them OPS and 500kilo every game to deal with threats your weapon cant adress at all
Everything is a piece of confetti short of killing anything, which forces you to overkill everything by a massive ammount of damage. Meanwhile AH balances things based on spreadsheets, damage numbers and HP values, while ignoring the poorly implemented damage falloff system that makes all their "on paper" damage balancing not work at all in practice Why the hell does damage drop off start counting THE SECOND bullets leave our guns? How the hell does that make sense? That sounds like hell to balance things around. It introduces so much variability to how a every single weapon might perform in an actual combat scenario. This is what happens when you balance around spaghetti code. No wonder wether or not you're able to kill a heavy unit feels like RNG most of the time
Yeah genuinely surprised about the damage falloff. Not sure why they felt the need to reinvent the wheel when they can just do what every other game does: have a maximum damage range and start the falloff after.
@ramannoodles. Then don't have dmg falloff at all. Certainly they can make the falloff a time 1 multiplier. Why does Helldivers even need falloff to begin with ? Engagements beyond 200 m are rare and the bullets don't even loose much velocity at this range irl
@@sink53 or at the very minimum have the damage falloff start substracting damage from the end of the effective range onwards, not within the effective range!!! What is the point of giving a gun 650 damage when it's never going to do 650 damage in practice? And if it's gonna deal 649 damage at point blank DON'T GIVE THE TARGETS IT'S DESIGNED TO DEAL WITH 650 HEALTH!!! I personally don't mind damage falloff, but if they're going to have it be a thing then they should at least make it make sense!!! Maybe you're right tbh. If they can't properly implement it, I'd rather not having damage falloff at all. It messes with the balancing and HP thresholds. Too much variability for them to balance weapons and armor around
"Buffs would make the game easier" Most players don't use the guns that need those buffs. I know I never do. People "meta chase" because its actually more fun than trying to have options at this point. If the weaker guns were in line with the top tier guns that most run anyway, then the difficulty literally doesn't change. It only changes for the worse when they insist on nerfing what we like...
If the devs wanted players to work together against specific enemies; they should do the thing thats been done in Left 4 Dead, Vermintide, and Deep Rock Galactic. Don't have the enemies rag doll you forever, instead have an enemy lock you down and make it so that someone else has save you. AND, let your Rover save you so you don't kill Single Player.
Also, maybe a limit and scaling for rag doll. So, the time to get up gets reduced the more you get ragged doll without getting up, and push back is smaller, and maybe damage as well (such as excluding critical hits with headshots after first ragdoll hit). This still leaves the annoyance of getting rag dolled, however, the disadvantage from it doesn’t multiple everytime you get hit by it in one go. Could just be explained as the Helldivers becoming so concussed, they kind of don’t feel any of the effects or something silly. “Nanotech son”
Maybe add a QTE button spam like Dead Space? That way you can break out and during such you get some breathing room. You'd still take damage, so you can't keep getting grabbed forever. There's still a few things that would need to be done. Solo players have access to a lot more stims, but you'd also lose time on an already timed mission. @@zamn7937
Yeah I would say that a game's challenge/difficulty is poorly designed if it's created by making the player struggle with their own tools they're meant to tackle the actual threats with. You don't make a fighting game and then make it harder by making it hard to kick. Similarly, it adds nothing but frustration when we have to reload an AR after every medium sized enemy, every 3 seconds, in a field with 30 coming at us specifically + a horde of every other type of enemy on top of it. I'm not saying they should die to way less bullets, all I'm saying is I shouldn't have to be reloading after every 30, when we have 60 bullet mags in our real world ARs and these are people going after huge space threats. You know, for "ReALiSm!" The constant reload loop in crowds we have in that game just feels frustrating, when it's one more thing that takes you away from being operational in a game where there's limb damage, terrain elements that slow you, exploding flora that slow you, acid that slows you, many things that reduce your visibility, several things that ragdoll you, things that make you flinch and not pick up a weapon if you get hit at the exact time you try to pick it up, or things that make you flinch just when you shoot, so you miss etc... None really all that bad if looked at on their own, but once all these individually "balanced to have a drawback/inconvenience" aspects compound to a greater whole in a very challenging mission, your experience leans towards headaches, not fun. Crown that with a completely random hole on the ground you drop all your samples in and you might as well slap yourself to save the dev the trouble :D Also, everyone's been using the only viable alright feeling guns whenever they can and still it has maintained the challenge, so there being more viable and reliable guns will only ever add to enjoyment. I have no idea why bad decisions come so easily with not even asking about them, but every single design to improve has to be "reconsidered, planned and pondered for 2 months". Edit: I should've said originally I'm thinking primarily the bug side of things. I feel automaton side has a lot more viable options at this time.
diligence CS literally one shots HS devastators, og diligence does as well, (if you dove forward cause idk whose idea was it that you had bullet dmg falloff by 0.1 so you miss breakpoints) senator 1 HS, xbow 2x leg shot, tenderizer has a laser sight and scope to counter scope off center and 2 shots a devastator new striders, 3 bullets of ~150 dmg to the rocket racks, dies. ppl wasting 60 bullets on one enemy, maybe just maybe that enemy needs to be focused down else where or use a different weapon? So we can actually get around to shit like bullet dmg falloff or rocket dmg falloff (rockets doing 649 dmg instead of 650 dmg to one shot charger behemoth legs) instead of applying a bandid buff to primaries
At this time the primaries and secondaries dont even feel like that, they feel like tools. Like I will onyl be using my support and backpack and the other two at survival tool specific. Like I only runt he side-arm grenade launcher on bugs for holes and spitter, shotguns just for stagger and croud control, and a guarddog to do the actual add clearing. While I run a machine gun that will be mostly used for everything or an AT I know will only kill 3 heavies over 5 minutes or reloading. At this point just let me run both mechs so I can be a support for 80% of the mission, its what I want to do anyway and I make them last a good while and clear half the map with one.
@@TheTroubleshooter Oh I definitely should've said that I'm mostly thinking of the bug side. The automaton side has a lot more that's viable (imo) and many of the issues don't compound to be big issues, because every enemy isn't running into your face at all times, unlike with bugs. Automaton side is very much about positioning. Bug side is very much about staying operational and killing em as they come, because offense is your best defense. So yes, I agree with you. (Automaton side only had one frustration over the bug side before: Getting caught into a loop of ragdolls. Now the tentacleboy is bringing that to the bug side too haha)
Helldivers 2 should take a note from Killing Floor 2's difficulty increase. It's not just increase their numbers and decrease yours, but adding new stuff the players have to deal with. Different enemy behaviors that affect gameplay. Make the difficulty increase without putting the players down
Agreed. IMO it’s just poor game design. Get creative with your enemies ffs and get out of game dev 101. They do a lot of great stuff for sure but I noticed this day one too. I guess you get a few diff enemy types the higher you go but just saying “no chargers until level 5” is a poor excuse for horde shooter design.
And the majority of KF2's enemies go down in a couple of shots. Headshots/weakpoint hits are key to managing ammo long-term, instead of absolutely necessary to kill anything; you can spray desperately into a crowd and survive, unlike in Helldivers. Also you can effectively run away in KF2, at least for a while.
@@TehCakeIzALie1you can do that in helldivers, you just can't do it with every weapon on every enemy, you know, because not every enemy is supposed to die instantly
About Team reload. Ratatoskr said something a while back that makes a lot of sense : It requires so much steps to team reload and makes no sense that you have to pick up ammo from your back to give to the person in front of you. Instead you should just be able to run towards someone with a Support weapon and backpack and reload for them. It's practically impossible to ask your teams to drop their backpack so you can reload for them when there's 4 Hulks and 3 Gunships. Removing the need of the backpack for the reloader should make it way easier to perform
It's because they think it's still like HD1, where your team had no choice but to be huddled together in relatively close proximity due to it being top-down and scroll locked on the same screen- you stuck together or died, and the screen wasn't moving unless everyone was going the same way. It wasn't as much of an ask to take a couple steps over to quickload for somebody and then go back to your business. 2 is just so much more spacious, players are always too far away to justify being pack mules for each other, especially when these weapons don't work well enough to merit all the extra hassle. It's almost always a net decrease in effectiveness to try to entertain the team reload gimmicks
Its funny when you look at it. Its actually kinda hard to grab stuff off your own back. Its why swords aren't actually carried on the back. Its much easier to have the user wearing the ammo supply and just take it from them to reload. It almost makes too much sense.
@@NatCr3w Yeah that's my main argument too like it would be more realistic if you just grabbed the stuff from the back, of your already shooting partner, to his own gun
I cant believe we even have to adress the idea that making the guns better = making the game easier.. the problem isn’t that the game is too hard, it’s that our arsenal is ineffective at dealing with the problems they need to deal with, aka most primaries dont function. I agree with you so hard that everything getting buffed would only make the game feel more fun to play, it’s insane some people don’t get it
@@thiccfila ah yes, take me back to the glory days of running akimbo deagles and .44 magnum in MW3. Heck, akimbo Redeemer for the akimbo Scorpion equivalent. Was it good? No. Could you control your recoil? No. Did it absolutely destroy anyone who came point blank and make you laugh when you were staring straight up in half a second flat due to recoil? Absolutely
Plus, if making guns stronger makes the game “too easy”, increasing spawns is always a valid solution imo. I always prefer games where you’re super strong but have to deal with HORDES of enemies (upcoming Super Marine 2 for example) over games that have you at “average” strength fighting small-medium groups of enemies that have enough HP to need more than one magazine.
@@homebredkalus1420I dunno if bumping up the spawns would be good for this game though, it already has tons of performance issues and then problems like rocket ragdolling and bile spewer spam and their bs hp pool + instant kills would be even more abysmal than they already are.
That feeling when a real life javelin system can insta-1-shot basically any tank on the planet through FEET of hardened steel armor but it does nothing against an organic “armored.” Creature. The Spear’s rocket(shaped charge I mean) should go clean through a bile titan and kill a charger below it if they wanted “realism.”
Not to be a sticker but no tank has ever had more than a foot thick armor. Modern armor isn't even steel its composites and Javelins are top attack AT that bypasses the thick armor (that modern armor and ERA can stop)
@@sebastiannelson6355 Composite armors start poking into the equivalent of a meter of rolled homogeneous armor. In fact, it's because of shaped charges like javelin that armor had to develop that way. HEAT rounds were insanely effective. It's also insane that the recoilless rifle isn't just a straight up RPG instead. Having to deal with your rocket "bouncing" just is nonsense in the setting.
@@sebastiannelson6355the reason modern tanks don't have that much armour is exactly because shaped explosives go straight through it anyway and you're better off investing in ERA/Active defense systems, if armour helped they'd be bringing it
That's true. The way I play, the "support" weapons I call down are my primary weapons and the "primary" weapons I carry are for backup when I occasionally don't need to apply the primary or it's out of ammo. With the exception of when I use the counter-sniper. That thing still kicks all kinds of automaton ass.
The only one that ever felt like a "real primary" weapon for me was the Eruptor in its initial state - it was strong enough the clear chaff, could support against armored enemies due to explosive dmg (inherent dmg multiplier), being balanced by its fire rate and reload speed (fuck that unnescessary double cycling on an empty magazine though...). I used to run a loadout without support weapon, using another eagle strike or supporting style stratagem instead - playstyle felt like a real supporting DRM role. All the other "primary" weapons usually just feel bad with their designation as "primary" being somewhat misleading.
Because you brought it up right at the end of the video, I'll say this about mission teamwork: The IBCM mission objective is a promising case for teamwork in a main mission objective, because the moment the terminal is interacted with the first time, the silo locks on the ground can be disengaged by one player, while the player on the terminal completes the terminal objectives until such time as they need to unlock the silo door. I think this is a good example of the kind of teamwork that HD2 should be going for, where two people can progress the objective at the same time and it's much faster than (but not impossible for) one player. The SEAF Artillery secondary objective could be made to work with some tweaking to how the terminal operates. Currently, there is no point to operating the terminal until you have the 5 shells you want to load into the cannon, at which point you only need 1 person to turn it on, load the shells, and then run back to the terminal to complete the rest of the sub-objectives. If they changed how the SEAF Artillery terminal worked so that it was similar in design to the ICBM it would be a better objective to complete. All that would be required is to make the "load-check" for the five shells be one of the last requirements, and allow players to load shells into the cannon as soon as the terminal is turned on. One player can then focus on completing the terminal objectives while another player does the loading and there is no one left waiting to do their role. You can find multiple instances where players have to leave the terminal behind in other to complete some minor task (like opening the oil valves) that would be better done by allowing those tasks to be completed once the terminal is turned on, and not when the task comes up because you've done all the other steps. We don't necessarily need mission objectives to be handled like bunker doors where you literally can't progress without a second person, but more mission objectives should be changed so that they can be completed FASTER with two or more people working on it instead of one.
thats how the artillery objective worked in HD1, youd have one guy doing the terminal while the others go an grab the shells adn put them on the conveyer
AH did a much better job of this in HD1. There were objectives like bomb defusal that required you to call down a detector, and usually one player would scan for bombs while another handled defense and defusal duties. Simply put, there should be multiple tasks required for objectives that can be done in parallel to promote teamwork. Right now the optimal strategy is split into two pairs, then each pair can do different objectives near each other and reinforce if needed. Divide and conquer might technically be teamwork but it hits different than when your buddy next to you is shouting "DEFUSE FASTER" while mowing down the horde coming after you both...
@@xInsane333x Right? As it stands right now, it's a little too much rinse and repeat with not enough stuff to mix things up and make us feel like we're a team.
Especially today with this new MO. I played 5 missions and it feels like I'm playing level 10 instead of the level 8 I've been on for a month. Somethings different today.
@doubleya215 Today, I was just getting bullied by impalers on dif 7, heck dealing with more than one where you don't know exactly they are and how far away cause of their 150m range is painful! Especially with the gloom blocking the mini map.
No, they definitely reduced them. As a day 3 player, I can confidently say Super Helldivers now have less heavy enemies than suicides did in the first month. There's few enough heavy enemies that a team can get by on Super Helldiver with nothing but stratagems and no supports, which is surprisingly fun.
After watching the painful video where 2 devs and 2 Sony people played in convinced that they really don't know the mechanics of how the game works. If you are playing at 3 or 4, and we saw them being unable to play 5, any weapon will get the job done. But they aren't even aware of not shooting the hulk with small arms weapons. They usually play 3 or even less.
It was streamed to promote the new update. The Devs were using shotguns against the bots on low difficulty 😢😢. They didnt even know to dive to avoid fire damage. They just spammed stims bruh
They’re balancing the game on those difficulties and expecting us to do well at higher difficulties. I am utterly dumbfounded that a huge amount of the playerbase are still supporting these devs. They’re utterly incompetent at their own game.
@@Saicofake Raises the question if this is really their own game. Their lack of understanding how their own game operates under the hood starts looking mighty sus at this point.
What I find most alarming: For all these weapons to be within inches of being good, the devs already know how to balance them. They're deliberately balancing weapons to miss breakpoints that would make them feel good. They know all this and still want them to feel bad.
Speaking of mission types that challenge players, they did that a while ago as a one-off story mission, remember when we had to deploy the TCS? Those missions flipped a lot of stratagems to being much better since you had to hold down an objective and you had to ensure you didn't hit the objective. Turrets were suddenly a bit more valuable, even saw a few teammates bringing the HMG manned turret too. Just a simple objective change made certain stratagems much more appealing to take!
They said they're going for realism. However there's a reason why we say in reality that "Almost only counts in horseshoes, handgrenades, and thermobaric and nuclear munitions." Because realistically almost in the case of war usually leans more towards the highly probable side. You shoot someone in the chest it's not that "Oh noez! I was using a 9mm Glock and only dealt 30 pts of damage to them and they clearly have 50 hp! I have to shoot them again!!" Realistically things happen after a bullet hits, pierces, and tumbles. A timer gets set for whatever was shot and usually it's not a long one depending on where it's shot. You shoot things in the head and it's not a 5 second swan song from them. So either we need these kinds of buffs, or Arrowhead can see themselves out the door. And here's the thing, I usually play solo, so I'm playing to my own detriment. However, needlessly handicapping me as well as everyone else with "almost an efficient kill" weapon overall hurts us in the end. Also this is a clear disconnect between what the devs think we need/want and what we actually need/want and in WWII there was an example of this. The US research and development team really wanted to push out the 76mm gun into the M4 Sherman tanks that were using the 75mm gun. In their mind, it was a better solution for all case scenarios. The majority of battalions it was sent to sent them back saying essentially the same thing. The 76mm didn't have as large of an explosive warhead in it and the 75mm currently was performing adequately. They didn't see a reason or a need to retrofit their tanks or their supply lines to cater to a new gun that also didn't match their M3 Gun Motor Carriage halftrack guns and other 75mm towed field guns they had. The 76mm was better in SOME cases, but that's the moral of this example is that the eggheads not on the front lines demanded they knew better. When their "knew-better" went to the front lines, the front-line grunts were telling them the harsh reality of, "This isn't better." That's the realism here, Arrowhead. You think you know better, but right now aerosol flamethrowers are not better.
All realism is thrown out the window in this game due to the fact if you're not sprinting 24/7 you're dead. If they want realism (which I do personally), they need to slow the game down drastically and make it viable for your squad to move slowly as a group. Easy way to do this is up the damage of enemies AND players, give us ways to slow enemies (wounded enemies should be slower, breaking a chargers leg should remove sprint ability, shooting rockets into a titans leg should make it slower). This would make the game more like Helldivers 1, where if you didn't stay together you were dead. In real life you're not going to have 4 dudes sprinting 24/7 all in different directions.... So the devs "realism" claim is just cope for bad game design.
@@MacDibs Says the guy not actually addressing what OP said. Stop being a damn apologist. He's correct and you said nothing of substance. AH has their collective head so far up their own ass they don't even understand how their own game actually plays. The changes they make are so poorly considered, it's quite clear they have no clue on what they're doing, and it's negatively impacting the game and its player base. They think they know their own game, but it's obvious with their decision making that they in fact don't.
You are a HD1 veteran! I am saying this a lot on the streams' chat. The butt was full armored too. If the Behemoth had the same small hit box to the head like in hd1 to be 1-shot from ATs, would make a lot of players pick ATs and have fun being useful. Impalers too could be 1-shot to the exposed orange head when the tentacles were deployed. Should be like that in HD2 too.
@@ELVIStheDotA I will never forget my first encounter with the Charger on a snow planet. I was using the EAT. Expected to 1-shot it to the head. I missed the second Eat and the dance began.
I find it funny how the ANTI-tank weapons ineffective against tanks. Like, at that point, what even is their point lol; it's supposed to do one very specific job effectively and yet it can't even do that, so there's literally no utility to them at all.
HELLDIVERS 1 is a hardcore, cooperative, twin stick shooter. (The feel of the gun play does not matter) HELLDIVERS 2 is a 3rd person squad-based shooter. (The feel of the gun play really does matter) I feel this is what the developer is not realising.
Great video mate. Thank you for going into this amount of depth and being the voice for the many disillusioned helldivers out there. The section of Behemoth chargers is quite thought provoking and it's interesting consider whether difficulty is directly tied to the weapon performance!
Guns suck because devs want strategems to be primary source of killing things. However its flawed because they got various debuffs that make strategems harder to use, less accurate, with longer cooldowns, or obscurity of which one you are using.
People defending gameplay changes, enemy buffs etc makes sense .but defending nerfs that negatively impact them is insane. The amount of cope these people have is unreal
Let me explain the flamethrower for you, i tested it after the nerf and people would use it before as Anti-tank. The flamethrower is meant to deal with lights and mediums and is very good in that regard even now, not only does it kill the ones in front but leaves fire around to kill the rest of the little guys making it easier for your actual Anti-Tank guys to kill the charger or titan. you can still kill a charger with it, I was able to with one canister rather easily.
@@FireHeart947genuinely what are you talking about? Utilizing the flamethrower feels even worse now, before it passed through enemies and it could actually be used for chaff and now half the time it's bouncing off of them, hell I've been killed by my own flames ricocheting into me! It's horrible now to clear chaff, literally just like, unusable.
@@sadpotatohours4846 I used in in a difficulty 8 eradicate mission, i moved away from the group with the flamethrower and was untouchable until i ran out of fuel dying to hunters. i even killed a charger before i died using the flamethrower and some grenades. it wasnt easy to kill the charger but i did manage to.
@@FireHeart947 I just outright dont believe that as that goes completely contray to my current experience playing the game. ive used the flamethrower 15 times and counting, and most of the time im just like "I could have used any other weapon and it would be working better" the flames dont penetrate, bugs dont care about fire on the ground, hunters are constantly flanking around, killing groups with it just feels utterly impossible because i have to literally aim at the ground in front of me otherwise the weird hit boxes causes the flames to go into the air before colliding with enemies. you might say skill issue to that but i have been reliably clearing 6's and 7's even with the 50% or whatever patrol increase solo play gives you, the flamethrower is just near unusable for dealing with groups especially because of its wind up time to fire when a hunter jumps on you from 3 different directions. its just, not fun like a flamethrower in a game should be. it just feels annoying to use
@@sadpotatohours4846 you can not believe me but its true, and you have to aim low. The wind up isnt bad either its just a few seconds, hunters are always annoying i use my primary to kill them basically no matter what because theyre fast and in large numbers. any close range weapon will suck against hunters, like the arc thrower sucks against them because they get too close so you cant hit them.
Don't normally comment but I'm curious to see what people think. Part of this game being both annoyingly difficult yet also very easy is the healing system. Medic armor, supply pack, experimental infusion. YOU. WILL. NOT. DIE. As long as you don't one-shot or ragdoll, you can outrun every enemy in the game, and nothing can kill you. Their was a leak for a medic backpack which i found hilarious because the system is so simple. Not to mention the entire injury and bleed out system is almost completely invalidated by Vitality Booster. Even without that setup its still pretty easy to stim your way around the battlefield and just heal through ridiculous amounts of damage. I think it would be fair to say that it is very broken on its own. The problem is because so many of the weapons are lackluster, yet our 5 lives per diver + instant super heal, leads to a game where your defensive abilities are OP but your offensive abilities are shit, so you just get thrown around and torn apart without consequence while being unable to kill anything. If they wanted to make the game harder but fairer, invert that situation a bit. Give me good guns and stratagems but make it so i cant get away with so many reckless mistakes or just sprint past the entire game. Including the suggestion I've heard of having higher difficulties like 10+ give you less lives (Give some use to those reinforcement boosters aswell). But currently the broken healing is the only thing making the game bearable, I would not want that to be nerfed until after our weapons and stratagems were buffed. Thoughts?
Honestly i think that AH should implement health system from HD1 with some tweaks. You still would have stims (not present in HD1) but maybe 1 or 2 max and sligthly buffed effect. However there should be toxicity limit so you cant just chug stims like mad man and get away with everything and some injuries would require more stims than 1 to heal. Also supply backpack shouldnt be able to give us stims. Other than that i think armors need to be more impactfull and reinforcement system needs to change to cloesly resamble HD1.
It's a good point. Instead of giving you the tools to overcome any challenge with proper skillful application, they just give you enough defensive crutches to mindlessly power through all the moments where they robbed you of local victory. The game never fully opens itself up to the expert, it just hands out do-overs like candy that most people can abuse to to the point of a win
I'd love that, currently the game encourages a suicide bomber playstyle. The game is getting less and less cinematic. I know helldivers are meant to be expendable but when they are not, that is where they shine most
What I would say about this,is something I've seen at LtBuzzLightbeer channel's comments section: The problem with the balance seems to be: they're balancing it in the "spreadsheet" style, wich means looking at numbers on the data, but not understanding WHY those numbers exist in the first place. And that has probably to do with Alexis Kravchenko(I might have written the name wrong,but anyways); he was apparently the leader in the balance team for Hello Neighbor 2, and his balancing philosophy pretty much ruined the fun and killed the game overtime, and that same man seems to be the responsible for the balancing in HD2. If this is actually true, it might explain why this feeling of the reverse Midas touch has been going around on the nerfs, because everything that is slightly fun or effective gets power crippled, gets a mechanic effect change,or is less usable because of the lowered mag capacity. So, if there's anyone to thank, this man might be that.
This game needs/needed an upgrade system like the original, being able to put fast mags, up damage or fire rate, drum mags, ap rounds even. The problem is they already added guns that are variants of the same gun, theres 3 liberators and they all could have just been one with different upgrades. But now if they add upgrading they would have to make it more limited at least with ammo types.
Unstoppable rounds on AR's from HD1 would make a HUGE difference. Potentially doubling the damage output to groups of enemies (bullets penetrative 1 additional time) so you damage an enemy behind or if you hit a front mandible and it pens again into another body region. Huge frustration point is I can't hit enemies through corpses at the front but the hunter or bile spew has no issue here...
I mean, people have already maxed their samples from the last round of ship upgrades. They should include a set of weapon upgrades to go with the ship upgrades next time they add a round.
Buffing all the bad guns would only make the game easier when using those guns. As things stand now the majority of people default to a handful of guns that actually work well. What would really happen by adding a bunch of buffs would be the introduction of a plethora of guns into viability. This is crucial for a game like HD2 which has very repetitive gameplay. Having many different viable weapons adds variety and replayability, which would improve player experience and player retention as a result.
Not really, using other guns other than the reliable ones just feel like a fucking chore, because before the idiotic nerf on the BI, sometimes i picked other weapons to see if it was fun, and i was like... why the fuck i'm not with the BI, it was just pain and suffering.
Perfect. If more playstyles had at least a good performance, the game would be more fun. Now, the gap between using Auto Cannon and everything else is abysmal.
Only primary I use is the Dominator. Staggers and kills Devastators, accurate for distant aimed shots, effective against every bug below a charger. The primary should be useful against any small or medium enemy, provided you don't have to engage too many at once. I use the Grenade Pistol as seconday because strategems and a good primary at my disposal, the secondary and grenade slot are the least important and IMO should lean more towards utility, which the GP has. Arrowhead, I'm not asking for the game to be easy. I just want Doom 2016 type difficulty where the enemies are numerous and dangerous, yet it's always clear I have the tools I need to win and it's up to my skill to make it happen.
Making the tools to deal with the problem weak is the single worst way you could do difficulty. Imagine if in portal the portal gun had a strict portal life time and cooldown every time you placed a portal. Doesnt sound fun does it?
I really like the new orbital cannon missions from a difficulty increase perspective. Why? Just because of the base layout - they finally are bases where you'Re pushing into killboxes, have to cover properly, enemies have good attack points, and it's not just about hordes of heavy shielded devastators you just can't harm if you happen to run into them from a bad angle. That's an excellent way to increase difficulty (though I'm aware that better shooter players than me probabl barely felt it)
Hulks not dying to 1 spear is one of the main reasons why i bring thermites and eagle rockets. Also this kinda explains why commando is so popular. It two shots a lot of things you'd need to use two larger more damaging AT projectiles and firing off 2 Commando rockets under pressure is way more manageable than 2 recoilles, quasars or EATs,
I doubt anyone will see this but here it goes: The flamethrower was one of the last weapons in the game i found genuinely fun to use. I loved the way it covered a bunch of enemies and the high risk high reward of using it vs chargers. They actually nerfed it to be *less* realistic. If you hold a flame to a can of hair spray you get a gas powered flame thrower. Thats the kind that bounces off armor. The one in helldivers though is clearly a liquid flamethrower. Meaning it uses something like napalm. The way napalm and adjacent burning liquids work is that they sink into every crevice of armor and stick, continuously chewing through it. They stick to everything worse than tree sap or tar or any other sticky material you can think of. It doesn't bounce. It *saturates*. You need a super smooth surface that is designed to resist that kind of burning liquid to really be safe from it because it can't dig into it. Though the napalm will still stick to this surface. These burning liquids are considered a war crime because, depending on what is burning, it can sink through skin, fat, muscle, and then either cut through the bones with the intense heat or sink into the pores of the bones and cook the marrow on the inside. White phosphorous specifically is one of the worst flaming substances ever created. In regards to bugs, assuming the carapace is, indeed, flame resistant, the napalm would chew through the joints and then drip down along the inside of the carapace. causing ABSURD damage. Which is why burning the charger's front legs made sense. You were soaking the front legs which supported most of the bug's weight which also had a very large joint behind it. Source: I'm absolutely on some sort of watchlist because of some of the stuff I've had to research when running tabletop games that use as realistic fire and explosions as possible. The science behind it all is fascinating, if gruesome.
I've loved the FAF 14 Spear since I unlocked it (even when it was not autolocking). It brings you a playstyle where you can be a solid support element from a long range where you can prioritize high value targets when you team is face tanking the enemy. You can combine it with long range sentries like the mortars or the AC/missile turret and the servoassited armor (for loger throwing stratagems distance) or the stealth armor to drop the agro of the enemy and give yourself time to get distance and an advantage position. The weapon is also very terrain dependant because it works a lot better in open maps. Guess what, it has 4 missiles (you carry 3 in the backpack) and more often than not it never one shots armored targets (as you said in the video). That thing, which fires auto guided missiles (not rockets), should be an absolute monster in taking out with one shot every single heavy taget (except the bile titan and the strider fabricator). So I feel like Im trolling if I take it above dif 7, having the AC or the laser cannon which do the same work but with less ammo economy problems. It just the same problem with every other support/primary weapon underperforming. And they say they hate metas... Yeah sure AH😂
Those durable damage shots are something that, as somebody who doesn't troll the wiki looking up the hidden stats of weapons in the game, I've always felt was the "real damage". Most of the weapons like the sniper rifles have shit damage. The Diligence Counter Sniper has 14 durable damage, which is 56% less durable damage than the Diligence. Probably why it feels like an absolutely garbage weapon despite having "medium penetration" instead of light, since the more armored enemies tend to have durable body parts. That's why these guns feel so weak and bad. In what scenario do you actually need medium armor penetration but no durable damage, or adequate durable damage but only light armor penetration? Meanwhile the Slugger has twice as much damage as the Diligence at 250, Medium armor penetration like the Counter Sniper, but 75 Durable damage, which is 5.3 times as much as the Medium Armor penetrating "Sniper Rifle".
Behemoth chargers were sold as a rare elite enemy that was like a charger but harder to take down which would provide battlefield diversity. Instead, Behemoth chargers became pre-nerf chargers after they nerfed chargers due to community feedback on chargers. So you know, a roundabout way for arrowhead to not listen to player feedback.
Its just generally crappy idea to spawn only stronger variant enemies on diff9. Behemoth must be "oh crap thats behemoth!" not "**ck me there are 3 more behemoths"
its good to know the devs actually saw the doc you made, i just hope they take the feedback i know Clay had been doing these docs too since launch also hi thicc hi hi hiii :333
One thing that these proposed buffs would do that I like is reward good accuracy. If I'm able to kill a field of devastators with just a liberator and good aim, Good! That's how it should be.
The reason no one uses the team reload is You have to be using the same weapon as your teammate or u have to carry their backpack which no one is going to do. They should allow you to just team reload using their own ammo supply.
The breakpoints is actually the right way to do it, an over breakpoint makes the gun feel inconsistent with damage drop-off, an under breakpoint means it is certain to do it in the specified amount of hits. It feels very unintuitive because in games where you can change stats you aim for over breakpoints, but in games where stats are set under breakpoints is just easier to design around and makes making adjustments easier.
Flam-40 (Stratagem), Flam-66 (Primary) and P-72 Crisper (Secondary) have the same projectile, "Flamethrower". One way to balance, will be create another projectile only for Flam-40 named "Flamethrower Napalm". It will have older visual effects and Heavy V Armour Penetration.
The whole flamethrower situation stinks of a staffing shortage. Don't have someone who can take the time to develop a new projectile in the code, so apply the same projectile for the new primaries and just lower its effectiveness down to a primary level (no matter that this ruins the usefulness of the stratagem). Don't have someone who can make the new flame visuals look nice like the original flamer, so ruin that one's fire visuals too so that nobody notices the glaring difference between the two (which we did anyways). You could apply the same logic to many of the game's other emergent issues, blaming it on lack of manpower. The argument probably falls apart at some point, but it's interesting to consider.
@@Alsborg Despite that, it'd still be too difficult for them, I'm not giving them any free passes for shit, when they clearly don't give a shit when they've lied to us more than 3 times now.
@@Titansfury1I mean... you're not wrong, although it's not so much a staffing issue as an availability issue. Arrowhead made a statement about this last month but, essentially, the studio has been running with a reduced number of developers for around the last 2 months because people have been taking their annual holidays. I suspect most of that disruption will subside after the 27th August as the schools start up again and holidays wind down.
Taking away stagger utility from us but giving enemies constant windows to do exactly that, is one of my chief griefs. Pummeler was and is the greatest tragedy to fall as a primary for me. Felt so good to use on bot missions.
*scoffs* "patch to lower spawn rates of heavies.... my friends quit cause we saw a INCREASE in EVERYTHING more chargers more bile spewers 3 packs of 15 hunters each swarming us.... it went from challenging to just a slog..." and dont get me started on the bot front.....*stares in horror at 2 hulks after us then 2 more being droped in with a tank*
EAT, Commando, Spear, and such should not have damage fall off. In fact they should be doing more impact damage the further they go because rocket munition continues to accelerate out of the barrel until it runs out of fuel. If they wanna talk about realism.
One issue with weak breakpoints is that we feel like we did not do anything when the other guy kills the big thing because most people do not know the hidden HP and damage stats. I spend a lot of time shooting hulks in the eyes and thinking I wasted my AC rounds and time when an ally throws a stratagem that 1 shots it. Edit: or I kill it right before the stratagem comes down. I think switching to limb dismemberment when AT weapons are unavailable would give the same style of teamwork if that was implemented so that limbs were actually a reasonable way to destroy bots. Limbs got TTK as high as the whole units.
To me the worst enemies to fight in the game are the berserkers and the bile spewers. Not because they are hard, but because they both feel like a slog to kill with any weapon other than a select few. Kiting 20 berserkers in circles while trying to line up shots on the heavy and rocket devs shooting at me while doing so is not a fun gameplay loop.
How about some openings between enemy attacks, like devastators running out of rockets or over heating, hulks running out of gas to slow down or weak spots on the knees to slow them down, etc
Little idea: light armor penetration weapons generates enemy stun, and flametrowers fear in enemies, they try to flee flames, deployable static weapons like Cod in walls or tripods
There's only three or so reliable primary weapons in the game, I'm not naming them either in case the trolls in the dev team that keep nerfing the main tool the players are supposed to use to fight come across this. But it's ridiculous.
I agree with what the definition of difficulty should be. I have played souls series games for a long time and what makes them difficult is that you have to change tactics with most of the new elite enemies you fight. Sure theres random mobs everywhere and some gimmick bosses but the truly memorable and challenging encounters were the ones who made you switch up your tactics. Helldivers is no different, and they backpedal on several statements they've made as well. For example: They wanted the players to treat encounters with enemies as a decision to make, encouraging stealth gameplay to prevent being overwhelmed. (as a response to complaints about weak guns) which doesn't make complete since given how if you try staging an ambush the second they hear a gun shot, the enemy reinforcements already are on the ground chasing you. And now they nerf guns off of pick rates stating that they don't want it being too easy or having a meta. The philosophy on what difficulty means to the developers is what's most important here and the statements dont completely align with one-another. The balance update that prioritized swarming enemies over armor was a good change in my opinion, yet they nerf what's effective against swarms immediately after. I don't want to go back to the helldive missions with 11 bile titans chasing me at once, or the mission with my friend where we EACH killed about 30 chargers. If you're going to swarm me with heavies, may as well make it more fun and give me a fighting chance, or if you swarm me with trash mobs give me better ammo economy and I'll be happy.
Heavy machine gun on the bile Titan was crazyyyy. Looked like a movie I feel like the devs are fearing they’ll make 9/10 too easy but it’ll still be hard. I guarantee you’re still gonna have to dodge 2-3 chargers at a time but if you can kill them eventually at least you’re rewarded for dodging said chargers
The enemies get all the cool strong shit and we get weapons that tickle the enemy. They might s well get rid of all guns and stratagems and give us rocks to throw at chargers. That’s what we’re literally doing. Shooting guns that shoot rocks
I think Arrowhead should just release a whole Weapon upgrade system already. Gives us a reason to dump requisition points and samples. Harder difficulty, Harder hitting upgraded weapons and strategems.
While breakpoint is nice, it is not exactly the problem. My personal approach on this HD2 balancing is that, 1. Weapons should feel good when used, even when their power are so-so 2. Underwhelming weapons are not acceptable Fixing every weapons breakpoint would make most guns powerful, but does not solve how they feels bad to use. For example, what all AR needs in the current HD2 is +30 ammo per magazine. And it would make them very versatile and feels powerful to sue (Despite them still needing the extra shots for breakpoint vs Upgrading their damage for achieving better breakpoint, which is all AR Damage +6 It would make them powerful, but the frequent reload would not make them feels good. Another Example, Flame thrower deserve range increase and slight more uptime, about 30~50% more, revert/adjust the recent nerfs And if possible, it cause Heavy bots to overheat. This would make using them feels straight powerful and a viable pick no matter what the future comes (As long as no replacement weapon comes). vs Breakpoint would only be reverting the nerf. Which would be great, but not prevent the loss of 100k of players the day HD2 starts declining.
Secondary Stealth missions are a must, with a fail state. Sneak in and release prisoners before they are executed for automatons, retrieve a stolen sample before swallowed by a hive lord. But they are secondary, so if you fail them and lose stealth, it doesn’t affect your ability to complete the mission. When they release the new warbond with the silencers I’d like for new secondary stealth missions to be added
“You were meant to RELY on stratagem’s” 2-4 minute cool-downs for 2-3 kill abilities for enemies that spawn 3-8 per minute. “AV support weapons are too heavily used” the ONLY weapons that people can “rely on” for AV are syooort weapons because see previous 90% stratagem downtime. “We want to encourage build variation” proceeds to remove ALL special features, nerf effective weapons to become trash-clear and double cooldowns or ammo-to-kill of EVERY anchor-unit killing weapon. “Primary weapons are meant to be bad” drops most ammo reserves by 1:3, most can’t take out a SINGLE medium armour enemy with out a mag/dump or flank and handle like 100 kilo steel beams but recoil like a sawn off no-brace shotgun (slow to aim and small bullets are causing MASSIVE dispersion when sounds are fire Plus headshots are de-facto 5-20x damage multipliers if you have the requisite armour pen. 50% of non headshots can’t even kill the enemy despite needing 5-20x the number of hits to cause mild debuff state. Planetary effects range from Instakill to area denial to stratagem killers, to minimap removal to arterial rocket spam spawning behind you to outright denial of ANY stratagem use for 60-90 seconds to blinding AND slowing storms. Planetary weather trends towards silent hill (zero visibility beyond 25 meters). Enemies have long range 1-shit, combo kill and rag-doll-AoE-spam attacks they can use from within the fog and outside your visual range. Enemies “patrol” (teleport) into existence exclusively in flanking and back-shot-ambush positions and are often summoning UNSTOPPABLE breaches/drops within less time than it takes for any AoE stratagem to land or simply out-tanks most small arms to get the swarm on your ass before they die. More enemies now have fog-machines. Have personal artillery that requires no line of sight and tracks you with map-hack levels of never ending rag-doll AND high damage spam attacks on 2-3 second refire rates THAT FIRE IN VOLLEYS (and have unlimited ammo with no meaningful reload cycle/animation) Trash enemies have auto-tracking 45-degrees-from-angle-of-weapon-direction aim-bot rapid fire weaponry with often AoE CC effects even on a “miss”. Hunters get a 2:3 hitpoint damage headshot mid-air change of direction tracking-missile-leap plus a cone based ragdoll attack and run faster than players, and have pinpoint stab combo-attacks and actively flank and evade lines of sight, and are borderline silent AND SPAWN IN PACKS OF 2-16 depending on “difficulty” and to a far lesser decree squad size. Yeah this isn’t the fun horde shooter I fought at launch anymore. That game knew what the concept of fun, gameplay pacing and vaulted weapon options were (tho there were also a heap of bugs the list of “known issues” is still getting bigger now so it balances out).
Ok hear me out. Damage falloff for kinetic weapons under 100-250m (depending on barrel length, caliber) is stupid. Lasers it totally makes sense due to atmospheric scattering and beam divergence. Plasma depends how exactly it's shot but it makes sense that it would be cooling down as it flies so I can see damage falloff there.
I wish the marksman rifles felt like the anti-materiel rifle, and I wish the anti-materiel rifle felt like how the railgun felt before it got nerfed into oblivion.
For some reason games like EDF and DRG can balance a game to be hard while having fun weapons if having some odd quirks(in the case of EDF) Having amazing weapons but seeing your enemy being insane as well allows for a fun sandbox. The devs using realism as an excuse is absurd if you played milsim games. Milsim games don't make the odd balance changes. The guns are used in their purpose while being good and fun to use in those games. It seems to me they just use that as a stand in for "hard" gameplay.
No, I am just pointing out their philosophy and disagreeing with it. I actually think they do know how to do their job balancing very well, or multiple enemies wouldn't perfectly match every gun breakpoint. (Well short of it). The issue is their philosophy leads to frustrating rather than difficult.
@@thiccfila So you're saying they intentionally screw over the player JUST to piss them off, and not to make it difficult. Because that's honestly what i'm seeing your response as. If they're fully aware of being this much of a piss take. They clearly intend for the playerbase to be pissed off and they see it as a positive we are.
On behemoth chargers and alpha commanders, I think theyre stupid. What made helldivers unique was that at higher difficulties the enemies stats stayed the same but you saw new more dangerous unique enemies. A charger behemoth is just a chargers with boosted stats, a bullet sponge. Behemoths and alphas ruin what originally made helldivers unique.
They should either remove the behemoth, or make it function differently like the spore charger (which can be 1 shot to the head). Behemoth is just another bullet sponge to a gam where enemies are already bullet sponges. Imagine if they added a behemoth bile titan that just has more HP
I think the weapons barely failing the wider primary breakpoints is an indication that they want those hit-counts to be exactly that, but give a large leeway in terms of damage to offset falloff over distance. However, the ones where the HP is exactly the same as the damage on a weapon and thus fail because they lose a tiny fraction immediately? Those I think are the oversights.
Its to stroke their ego, it pisses them off that people have a 99% win rate on super helldive so they keep trying things to get that win percentage down.
Solid job on the document. Hope that the devs listen to the feedback and make some positive changes. Sucks to see the game in a position that it is right now..
07:00 Those guys literally will break their backs to defend nerfs. If arrowhead nerfs something they'll tell everyone skill issue. So when my doc had buffs to everything they wanted to flame it. My doc had a few mistakes but I edited it before I made this video. I was literally just sitting on stream making it for 10 hours straight. Mistakes happen. All anyone has to do is let me know and I will edit something.
the head crydiver wanting to make level 10 easy mode.all you want is a super soldier. wow 3 bullets to the head for a lib is major falloff. wow.................
If you think this isn't about the fact that every gun in the game is short multiple enemy breakpoints by a few damage by design, then you don't get it. Making enemies frustrating to kill =/= difficulty. Making more engaging missions rather than running in and clicking a terminal and then spinning a wheel would make the game more difficult. Or adding stalkers to bug breaches on diff 10 like I've been asking for.
Thank you for making this video. There’s so much hidden data that i didn’t know about, and I hope this provides some empathy towards players who have not been satisfied with the recent balance changes
Beautiful video, I love how indepth you went into WHY weapons feel so bad (I'm a huge data nerd). I wish I was there for the 10 hour stream, I'd be glued to my monitor!
I think we need capes with added effects like faster reloading, climate resistance (heat, cold), kevlar weave for damage resistance when running away, additional stealth, 1 extra strategem, etc. You get it. The list goes on. The capes even state "no added effects" or something like that so i feel like there's already a slot available for such an attribute.
They already doubled down against that months ago, saying it was unrealistic for you to magically get special perks just because of your fashion sense and that's why helmets and capes offer no benefits and never will
Kevlar capes would be amazing for when you have to run away from enemy encounters. X% Damage Reduction when shot in the back. But seeing as the Meta is to run away from enemies now, that'd make the game too "easy", so it'll never happen.
