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Why I’ve NEVER Carried an SOS Device Backpacking 

Darwin onthetrail
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This is why I've NEVER carried a Satellite Communication Device in over 14,000 miles of Backpacking & Thru-Hiking.
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30 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 459   
@petrhejny298
@petrhejny298 3 месяца назад
Mostly solo hiker. Never used one until last year and thought it was an overpriced device and a subscription cash grab. Wanted to sell it prior to my 2024 PCT thru but my girlfriend insisted I keep and take it. Well two weeks ago alone in Desolation Wilderness I broke my leg and I am so grateful to have had the inReach Mini with me. Not only did it get me extracted from the trail via helicopter but also when I signed up for this year's subscription I opted for the SAR insurance. My body is now healing and my finacial ass saved!
@olliehopnoodle4628
@olliehopnoodle4628 3 месяца назад
yeah, the insurance option is pretty cheap so when I am going off the grid I take mine.
@44NorthWyo
@44NorthWyo 3 месяца назад
So glad it helped you!
@rkatrails
@rkatrails 3 месяца назад
Perfect! I use an inReach Mini 2 as well, chose the basic safety plan on an annual basis so I have it available year round, and about 2-3 weeks ago I opted for the optional insurance plan. Like you, I mostly hike solo, so I always send an email to my sister with my plan and I send her check-in's so she knows my whereabouts. I keep my unit turned off except to send check-ins or occasionally pair it with my phone to correspond with ease with someone. Lastly, you never know when you might run across another hiker that's in trouble, not to mention the peace of mind it provides for myself.
@E_Clampus_Vitus
@E_Clampus_Vitus 3 месяца назад
Desolation Wilderness is what it isn’t. You see about a hundred people on this trail everyday. You would have been fine without it.
@chemistryflavored
@chemistryflavored 3 месяца назад
@@E_Clampus_Vitus depends on where you go, never hurts to have one. We did the Seven Devils the week before Labor Day and didn’t see anyone for 5 days which was weird. It wasn’t until we were heading back to the TH on a Friday we hit people.
@miketheglassguy7568
@miketheglassguy7568 3 месяца назад
My favorite reason for having one is to communicate with my wife and family when I don’t have service mostly for their peace of mind. Hiking along the Colorado trail I really didn’t have service anywhere except when I got to town. I know your wife is used to it but I feel like for most beginners it’s really a no brainer unless you have a new iPhone.
@LoremIpsum1970
@LoremIpsum1970 3 месяца назад
I'd still carry both.
@alangauld6079
@alangauld6079 3 месяца назад
I've been backpacking for 50 years and never used one. But I'm starting to think about it. I'm getting older and I'm regularly in country with no cell service and my wife is starting to worry about me. But cost has been the inhibitor, not just the purchase cost but the ongoing subscription fees. Around 150/year seems to be the cheapest available. That is about my entire annual spend on backpacking so I'd be doubling the cost of my hobby. But I'm getting older, bones are more easily broken, balance isn't as good, maybe it's time...
@pitdoctor
@pitdoctor 3 месяца назад
I wouldn't fully trust the sat com capability of iPhones over a dedicated device. The Garmin, and other dedicated devices, have a better satellite antenna and are more rugged and likely to be ready when you totally need it.
@danielflaherty1661
@danielflaherty1661 2 месяца назад
A lot has to do with comfort levels. Years ago the big question was how well could you read a map. As technology has improved so has the desire to have an SOS device. I like to compare it to moving from an external frame pack to an internal frame pack or the move from a silcloth to dyneema.
@davehoblin112
@davehoblin112 3 месяца назад
I bought one last month. I am in North West Montana and have started to do more hiking in Glacier NP. There is almost no cell service in the park. Same thing so far, I have it and bought the most basic subscription plan and have not even turned it on, on my hikes in the park. I do plan on doing some overnight section hikes in the park including the CDT. I will use it to update my significant other of my overnight camp spots and that I will be at my pick up point finishing each section.
@Karen-dq8nw
@Karen-dq8nw 3 месяца назад
As an older hiker, with older hiker friends, carrying an inReach makes so much sense. I can understand why people wouldn't want them, but I will always carry one. I used the SOS feature last fall after getting into a car accident on a snowy remote road where there was no cell service. If we had needed an ambulance (luckily no injuries) it would have been a long long wait without the inReach. There are lots of scenarios where you might need one. But there is no substitute for good preparation, training and no one should think the SOS is a delivery service for whatever they forgot to pack, or for a bailout if they get in over their heads!
@LindaRamus
@LindaRamus 3 месяца назад
Been backpacking for 50 years. Always used to say - you hike in, you hike out. But embraced technology as it came on so got a Garmin InReach when they first came out. A bit heavy so didn’t always carry it. 2022 did AZT and forgot it. Kicked myself but said “ won’t need it.” Oh, I’m a solo hiker. But when left for PCT WA, made sure I had it. Fate is a fickle thing. 20 mils from Steven’s Pas, slip, fall back, break my ankle. Without hesitation, well maybe a moment, I punch out. Tell Garmin people what my injury is, 2.5 hours later helicopter arrives, lifts me out. (King County didn’t charge. Lucky right. )Took me 50 years to have a serious injury. I’m lucky I had the technology when I needed itSo I’m a believer. It’s in my pack as head out in 5 days for the CDT. Also use it as communication device cause usually have no cell service
@marklanders630
@marklanders630 3 месяца назад
I threw my back out while hiking once. I couldn't get a cell signal to call for help, but was able to send a text to a buddy who alerted the rangers. That was four or five years ago and I still haven't gotten around to getting a mini. Just waiting until I need a new phone with an SOS feature.
@Perrier_Hikes
@Perrier_Hikes 3 месяца назад
I literally sold my In Reach last week and bought a mini. I was thinking, “what would Darwin do?”
@gjcoop5625
@gjcoop5625 3 месяца назад
Many people's rationale: I don't need to carry one because someone else will come along, and I can use theirs. I suddenly realised their usefulness when I ended up headfirst down a 5 m bank and thought being on a solo trip in mid-winter on a remote island in the south of New Zealand that has maybe 6 parties a year going through, that my body may never be found. I don't carry it on my pack because I've seen my pack floating down a raging river in full flood. It's in my hip belt. I've never used it in more than 50 solo trips, all more than a week long, subsequently, but when I do need it, I have it.
@silverdale3207
@silverdale3207 3 месяца назад
Yep, is easy to get lost in NZ, there are a few people we've never found in the bush, the In-reach is a game changer.
@pi-sx3mb
@pi-sx3mb 3 месяца назад
Makes sense. Next time I go on a canoe trip I'm not taking a life preserver because I've never needed one in the past. And on my drive to the river I'm going to take the tire jack out of my car. Total waste of space and about as heavy as an SOS device. "Bears are safe. You just have to love them and act like one." R.I.P. Timothy Treadwell.
@janisstewart2217
@janisstewart2217 3 месяца назад
I am an older hiker and purchased one just to use for the SOS feature.
@KarlGottshalk
@KarlGottshalk 3 месяца назад
Yup.
@DrJohn493
@DrJohn493 3 месяца назад
As an older hiker, backpacker and fly fisherman, my InReach is peace of mind. I also keep it handy during tornado season and when I'm travelling backcountry 4WD roads. Looking forward to comparing capabilities with my 15 Pro Max when ios 18 is released.
@pyronymph-868
@pyronymph-868 3 месяца назад
My Cardiologist recommended a satellite messenger; not for emergencies, but to get help from friends if I got overwhelmed/hurt but not seriously injured/medical emergency.
@DarwinOnthetrail
@DarwinOnthetrail 3 месяца назад
Good Call!
@vetonthepath7693
@vetonthepath7693 3 месяца назад
Widowmaker survivor.. exact same reason Medicine man
@moyashisoba
@moyashisoba 3 месяца назад
Interesting topic. I, female, always hike on my own, in quite remote areas and my family became very anxious since a female hiker went missing some years ago at the same time I have been out there. They weren't able to get in contact with me for some days due lack of cell service, while I had a great time, whoops. Since then I'm using an inReach just to send them a Good Morning and A Good Night and they are able to see that I'm still moving. I'm not the biggest fan of using the device because my hikes are my me time, but I want them to feel good. And yes, navigation just with the phone or even old school maps.
@DarwinOnthetrail
@DarwinOnthetrail 3 месяца назад
It all comes down to what makes YOU feel safe out there! 🤙
@willek1335
@willek1335 3 месяца назад
I agree with you, and personally, decided that my hikes are my own time. The people back home will have to get used to it, like they did all throughout history. The reason why I'm out there is to not be connected. Deal with it!
@twestgard2
@twestgard2 2 месяца назад
Related: The more common these things are, the harder it is for malicious people to get away.
@leomullen3
@leomullen3 3 месяца назад
Taking my boys out for their first backpacking trip and want the peace of mind that the messenger gives me. Doesn’t weigh enough to deter me from taking it.
@wr1120
@wr1120 3 месяца назад
If you can afford the bucks it's always a good idea to carry one just in case.
@chach3
@chach3 3 месяца назад
When I am out west, we will get in some really remote areas with no cell phone service and stay there for a few days fishing. I like to have it to let loved ones know where I am at and when to expect to get a call from me when I get back to service. And sometimes I am by myself on these adventures, so it is a no brainer to have. As I get older, I think it is an essential piece of kit that I will always carry.
@lmuscat
@lmuscat 3 месяца назад
I've carried my inReach Mini all over just for the SOS button. Last year, it saved someone's life in remote Patagonia. Made the cost and minor inconvenience which I had previously often complained about seem completely inconsequential.
@LoremIpsum1970
@LoremIpsum1970 3 месяца назад
They're not 100% reliable, but local SAR capabilities seem to be the deciding factor if or when someone's going to get to you. HikingGuy's got some great vids on all that.
@jsmit9484
@jsmit9484 3 месяца назад
As a last resort the price and weight are worth it to me. Life doesn't have a price tag, but if it did, the garmin would definitely be within that budget 😅
@chrisharmon5453
@chrisharmon5453 3 месяца назад
Starting to sound?… dude. This needs to be part of your gear. I work solo in the forest and this is the preferred piece of gear. Way too many places where phones don’t work (most of my forest) and the device is generally drop and weatherproof. SAR agencies ask folks to use these. Required by my previous employer if there wasn’t coverage or working solo.
@yeeisme
@yeeisme 3 месяца назад
Currently only Emergency SOS is on the Apple Watch Ultra, the iPhone 14, iPhone 14 Pro, iPhone 15, and iPhone 15 Pro. iOS 18 will allow satellite to text as well but is limited to the above devices because of the antennas needed to send a satellite signal from the device.
@Likes2playinmud
@Likes2playinmud 3 месяца назад
I upgraded to iPhone pro 15 just for the sos feature. Not sure if it is “reliable” enough though.
@FOXMAN09
@FOXMAN09 3 месяца назад
Samsung Galaxies have SOS to and satellite sms is coming to Android but unclear what phones are capable of this as it was only recently announced
@ropersix
@ropersix 3 месяца назад
@@FOXMAN09 That's more of a "rumor" from last year about Android 14. I got super exited about it, only to learn it never actually materialized. I assume it will at some point, but they're letting a lot of users down in the meantime.
@axelw273
@axelw273 3 месяца назад
I’ve had an Inreach mini for four years. I have not used the SOS, but have talked to a backcountry emergency medical professional about an issue related to heat stroke thru the messaging capability. Worth every penny to me. it is a form of insurance. You can opt to pay for it or not.
@yisdisaissue
@yisdisaissue 3 месяца назад
There are plenty of "Missing experienced hiker found dead" stories that should at least make you think about carrying one.
@LeeLee-gy7gp
@LeeLee-gy7gp 2 месяца назад
Nah not really
@psyched901
@psyched901 3 месяца назад
I use a Zoleo device (better than Garmin, IMHO) and it saved me last August while climbing Mt. Whitney in the snow. An ice ledge gave way under me and I tumbled down an embankment, severely separating my shoulder. I used the Zoleo to communicate with a rescue team that helicoptered me out to a hospital. Plus, I can text my wife and family with the Zoleo while out in the back country which is very reassuring to them. In short, I would never go out into the back country without one.
@VenturingValerie
@VenturingValerie 3 месяца назад
Why do you like the Zoleo better than Garmin? I have the motorola defy and a garmin but have never had a zeleo because the subscription plans are so high. Is there something additional it does that makes this device worth it for you? I love learning more about them!
@iamjoshkoop
@iamjoshkoop 3 месяца назад
@@VenturingValerieit’s not “high” it’s the ease of turning on and off, maintaining same contact number and lower initial device cost.
@heatherlyng491
@heatherlyng491 3 месяца назад
I plan on using it to navigate and send messages to save the battery on my phone for photos
@iviewthetube
@iviewthetube 3 месяца назад
If you want a device unit for only SOS, then there are EPIRBs which don't require a subscription; you just have to register it with NOAA's United States 406 MHz Beacon Registration at no charge.
@lightwalker4558
@lightwalker4558 3 месяца назад
That's one reason why I love my PLB. Another is that it sends a 5 watt signal, over 3x the strength of cell phones and Garmin devices.
@headwerkn
@headwerkn 3 месяца назад
@@lightwalker4558different signal types, not easy to compare based solely on wattage output. PLBs use LEO satellites, InReach et al use GSO. In theory PLBs do handle canyons and certain climatic conditions better, however they’re unidirectional, so you don’t know if the signal is getting out until help arrives. Bidirectional comms is the big factor of InReachs and the like, both in emergency and general comms.
@gregsantos9392
@gregsantos9392 3 месяца назад
The iPhone 15 with SOS uses the Globalstar satellite network- not as reliable as Iridium and no coverage in the Pacific ocean.
@sirsir108
@sirsir108 3 месяца назад
I wasn't going to get one but a few years back I twisted my ankle and pulled my calf muscle and while I was crawling to get ice I thought of some of the remote places I hike alone so the next day I crutched into the store and got one
@DarwinOnthetrail
@DarwinOnthetrail 3 месяца назад
YIKES! Glad you are ok!
@sagehiker
@sagehiker 3 месяца назад
In 2018 I could have adverted a SAR callout on me being 12 hours late coming out of trail wrecked canyon. I was fine but conditions were too bad and unsure to attempt a night hike out. If I had had a messenger, I could have communicated that I was ok, and my contact would not have alerted a SAR response. I had PLB but a PLB is for me immediate threat to life or health, not able to send a check in.
@DustinBKerensky97
@DustinBKerensky97 3 месяца назад
He's in cell service 95% of the time!?!? Yeah I probably wouldn't use it either. I'm out of cell service 95% of the time so I really like having it for messaging. You get 3 free canned messages you can send as many times as you want without using up your messages. I send one when settling down for the night, one for when I take off, and one for when I come home. Just so loved ones know where I'm at and that I'm still going. If I go silent for too long they will know where I last camped to start the search there. There are places you can end up hurt that won't get signal, and ways to get hurt that will leave you unconscious and unable to send an SOS. So I like morning and evening messages as a "Keep alive" signal so people know I'm good.
@klammi85
@klammi85 3 месяца назад
NEVER needed one!!...until last summer when i was resqued with a helicopter due to injury😂😅 without the inreach, oh boy..
@iamjoshkoop
@iamjoshkoop 3 месяца назад
When you have family and children who depend on you then you change your perspective to always be found. I don’t want to fall and go missing because I was too cheap or gram weenie to save my own life.
@jimbojones6169
@jimbojones6169 3 месяца назад
Garmin mini travels with me. Mine is paired with my phone… so can text in dead zones. It provides me peace of mind while hiking.
@samewalt6486
@samewalt6486 3 месяца назад
Seems to me that many people now rely on their devices and never learn even simple map and compass skills, nor even pay basic attention to geography, sun position and weather signs like clouds. What happens when your devices fail?
@desertdreamer460
@desertdreamer460 3 месяца назад
Not a fan of the navigation feature but as a solo female I feel safer with an SOS button. Also, with kids and husband at home I want them to have some peace of mind while In away so that I’m not worrying that they are worrying! 😂
@MiguelGomezMountainRunner
@MiguelGomezMountainRunner 3 месяца назад
You never need one…until you do. Decided to buy one several years ago after my solo winter run across the Grand Canyon and back.
@DarwinOnthetrail
@DarwinOnthetrail 3 месяца назад
It's been 9 years, but It will definitely be going with me going forward on some trips 😉
@MiguelGomezMountainRunner
@MiguelGomezMountainRunner 3 месяца назад
@@DarwinOnthetrail I used mine in Argentina last year when a young woman’s boyfriend didn’t come back after 12 hours of hiking up near the base of Mt Fitzroy. They responded pretty quickly and were very communicative. I was impressed. Fortunately, the guy came back soon after I fired it off and he was fine.
@PerfDayToday
@PerfDayToday 3 месяца назад
Be sure to buy an appropriate rescue package too, speaking of GC rim to rim winter sorties.
@SophisticatedDogCat
@SophisticatedDogCat 3 месяца назад
I’m not a fairy so I won’t carry one. Kidding.
@wanttogo1958
@wanttogo1958 3 месяца назад
@@PerfDayTodaythe National Parks don’t charge for a rescue, FYI.
@notquiteultralight1701
@notquiteultralight1701 3 месяца назад
I just picked up a zoleo. It’s got SOS and you can send messages as well as a “im good” message to your spouse with the lat and long.
@EspenFrafalne
@EspenFrafalne 3 месяца назад
Regular phones are too fragile for me to literally bet my life that they would survive if i slipped and fell, and smashed the phone against a rock. So i got a "small" Garmin eTrex 32x GPS (not SOS device) some years ago, and recently got a rugged phone. For an overnighter somewhat close to civilization, even a regular phone + compass is probably enough, but for longer hikes id probably get an InReach mini 2, and use my rugged phone and a comass as the main navigation tools, and have a paper map of the area im hiking in... GPS devices and phones are great for pinpointing ones location, but compasses dont have a screen that needs to be unlocked, and dont need to be calibrated (IIRC, GPS decvices also dont need calibration), so they are more convenient to use when you just want to see what direction you are heading.
@KrizAkoni
@KrizAkoni 3 месяца назад
I use a Garmin 67i - mostly to archive detailed GPS tracks of my hikes and to collect and navigate to waypoints along the way. The satellite communicator part I recently started using to communicate with my family when out of service. The sos part is secondary to me and not a consideration for carrying the device.
@LoremIpsum1970
@LoremIpsum1970 3 месяца назад
How are you finding the barrery life?
@KrizAkoni
@KrizAkoni 3 месяца назад
@@LoremIpsum1970 using no backlight, Multi-GNSS, bluetooth to phone, 10 minute satellite track interval, “normal” GPS local file interval, and 5 messages a day, I get roughly 6 days. If I’m not recording tracks, the unit runs for weeks.
@LoremIpsum1970
@LoremIpsum1970 3 месяца назад
@@KrizAkoni Thanks for the info, I might just pack a plb when I don't need those features.
@bobertz8251
@bobertz8251 3 месяца назад
The cost of needing it and not having it far outweighs the the cost of needing it and not having it.
@headwerkn
@headwerkn 3 месяца назад
I won’t go bush anywhere without one: solo or with others. They are literally the cheapest form of backcountry insurance you can buy.
@Gambeli02
@Gambeli02 3 месяца назад
I had an agreement with my brother's family to check in everyday I'm out solo backpacking. I use a Garmin Mini. One evening, although my Garmin and the tethered Earthmate claimed my signal went out -- it failed to send my message to all my contacts. Next morning, I was happily hiking along and got notice that a county deputy had been dispatched to do a welfare check on me. I was able to get a signal through and stop him before he got a couple miles from his station. Now, I do morning AND evening check ins, AND a "current location" so they know which trail I'm on. It's a pain in arse to have to remember to always send a signal, but it keeps the family happy.
@silverdale3207
@silverdale3207 3 месяца назад
I just share my track with family so they always know where I am.
@chemistryflavored
@chemistryflavored 3 месяца назад
The only reason my husband and I got one was for my family because they needed peace of mind. It is nice to check the weather which I do use but I’ve never used to navigate. Also my husband has started having back spasm problems so it is really nice to know I have it if I need it. But to be honest, sometimes it’s a chore since they now want us to check in with them when we break camp, stop for lunch, and set up camp. There are days I forget or when the GPS signal is poor it doesn’t send and I get a message from my in laws and it makes me feel like I have a cell phone which I hate since I like to disconnect completely and go places without service. So if you do use one, set boundaries because some family members (especially the older ones) may treat it like a cell phone number for texting.
@David-e1b3t
@David-e1b3t 3 месяца назад
Muscle cramps are sometimes fixed with Potassium, Magnesium and Calcium pills (one of each, all at once).
@chemistryflavored
@chemistryflavored 3 месяца назад
@@David-e1b3t thanks, his are actually tied to a bulging disc so while he takes supplements to help, physical therapy has been more helpful but eventually he’ll need surgery.
@LiseWrigley
@LiseWrigley 3 месяца назад
EXCELLENT advice. I might not even tell them I have one unless an emergency comes up. Then I'll have to convince them I'm not a scammer I guess, but it would be worth the hassle. I just drove 60 km to visit them and back. Regular highway, done it many times. My mother called twice while I was driving and my sister once plus a text " mom is worried. Please call." Geez. I explained to them how dangerous it is to phone someone in transit. They still called me as I drove home again. Next visit I will either surprise them or turn my phone fully off and keep in trunk. By the way, I'm in my 60s, have been driving since I was 17 and never had an accident. I'm a Big Girl now. Jeez. Boundaries. Yes.
@chemistryflavored
@chemistryflavored 3 месяца назад
@@LiseWrigley Haha yup sounds like my in laws. If we don’t check in within an hour of when they expect I swear they think we’ve died or something despite us backpacking for years without an SOS. One reason I didn’t mention why we got the SOS was for wildfires after a really bad season and one started close to where we were backpacking, honestly if it weren’t for fires and my husband I would have held off getting one.
@LiseWrigley
@LiseWrigley 3 месяца назад
@@chemistryflavored Wild fires are a concern here too. And we often camp up-island where there is no cell service. Which is kind of nice really.
@SteveFransen-n3w
@SteveFransen-n3w 3 месяца назад
Last year at age 74 I bought an Inreach mini paired with my cell phone. Many of my peers no longer hike, so I go solo. My wife likes that I send a text message each night from camp, plus if I ever need the SOS I'll have it.
@jimkenney134
@jimkenney134 3 месяца назад
I have carried one for a long time. I have used it to get fire info while on the pct, a friend had one and it helped rescuers find and recover his body after sliding down an ice chute, and for my upcoming Arctic Circle Trail hike to be polar bear aware.
@johncramer9564
@johncramer9564 3 месяца назад
If you have multiple hikers in a group with these they can be used by hiker to hiker communication to inform friends when you'll be getting into next camp, present location etc. Very useful I think.
@sweepingdenver
@sweepingdenver 3 месяца назад
I came here to say exactly this! It’s a total game changer if you hike with one or more people and most or all people have one. It solves so many problems with achieving successful rendezvous, hiking at different paces, getting split up, etc etc.. I usually hike in the sierras where there is zero cell service and it’s sooo much less stressful being in a group when there are multiple inreaches or equivalents!
@JasonLumactod23
@JasonLumactod23 3 месяца назад
I only have it to appease my wife’s fear of me getting eaten by a bear or some other emergency. I do use it to tell time though 😂
@DarwinOnthetrail
@DarwinOnthetrail 3 месяца назад
It's a fancy clock most times 😂
@iviewthetube
@iviewthetube 3 месяца назад
In Banff NP, at least they were able to find their half eaten bodies because they had the Garmin.
@silverdale3207
@silverdale3207 3 месяца назад
Sorry to tell you, but she knows they have to find the body before they'll pay the life insurance.😁
@roc31539
@roc31539 3 месяца назад
Wife and I take our 8 yrs old Grandson into remote locations camping. A condition of his parents allowing us to take him is to update them that we are safe and can protect him. I am good with the conditions. Plus he knows how to use the inreach protecting his Grandparents as well. Cheap way to go into the wild and meet everyone's needs.
@anotherpenny1942
@anotherpenny1942 2 месяца назад
Same for me. I take my grandson camping but his mom insists I have a way to communicate with her.
@LoremIpsum1970
@LoremIpsum1970 3 месяца назад
Well, I certainly wouldn't wear one on my pack straps, pants belt only. *HikingGuy* best down-to-earth channel to watch for Garmin, especially setup and for realistic SAR response expectations (sobering thoughts on asking about the SAR capabilities in the area you're hiking in worth a watch)...I never knew you could inreach to inreach, and group messaging...doh. Zoleo or inreach Messenger batteries last longer; the Garmin 67i has better reception options... I'd still carry an inreach even if I had satcoms on my phone.
@BeedeeEx
@BeedeeEx 3 месяца назад
I’ve used one 3 years now. Only ever used it to check in with my wife to let her know things are fine. She really appreciates it. For the trails I typically hike in the North Cascades of Washington, phone service cuts out miles before the trailhead and you might get a tiny bit from a random hill you’re on…but never something that you can count on. I’m excited for the new iPhone satellite non-emergency messaging.
@davidschreiner749
@davidschreiner749 3 месяца назад
Used a Spot device years ago with my Boy Scouts so parents could track where their sons were when we went canoeing in the Boundary Waters, or backpacking in the Grand Canyon. It was also a part of our emergency plan. Later I upgraded to the Garmin inReach for cross country motorcycle rides, my own backpacking trips and even as a backup communications while outside the continental U.S.
@JulesKM
@JulesKM 3 месяца назад
Chances are that you won’t need it, but there are so many people who’ve lost their lives in heartbreaking situations because they didn’t have a satellite communicator. All it takes is an ankle roll to end up hurt and off the trail in a non visual place. If you fall in a crevice or down a hill, it doesn’t matter how close you are to civilization, no one can see you. There are people who have been literally RIGHT by the trail and died slowly over days while people desperately searched for them because they were too injured to move or call out. I hate how expensive these devices and subscriptions are, but I absolutely do not want to go out that way. I got a good deal on an inreach mini in a sale, and I keep it with me on the trail just for emergencies. I don’t use it for regular communication. For that I use my phone when I have service. I have used it for navigation on occasion. It is also nice to know that my family can always reach me in the case of an emergency at home.
@LeeLee-gy7gp
@LeeLee-gy7gp 2 месяца назад
Nah
@guitarhiker4449
@guitarhiker4449 3 месяца назад
I have never used one either but have considered it. It seems like until you get in a semi bad situation out on trail you dont even think about it. In my case i had a friend i was hiking with who passed out and he was way too big to carry. We had no signal where we were at. We do lots of hikes together and you just never know... So this is something i am going to get very soon! Piece of mind! Safety first! Hike on!!
@DarwinOnthetrail
@DarwinOnthetrail 3 месяца назад
Yeah... it's definitely time I start carrying one on most of my trips
@erichbachman7363
@erichbachman7363 3 месяца назад
Its one of those thing you hope to never use, but nice if you need it.
@timmo971
@timmo971 3 месяца назад
I can’t see myself ever not having a paper map and compass but I feel it could be good to get sure fire coordinates on a longer hike if required. Some places are hard to pick out features on the terrain so there’s that. It’d have to be life n death immobility for me to push the sos
@shadowprince4482
@shadowprince4482 3 месяца назад
I've only had them on me for work. Personally, I just stick with the let someone know your route before you go system and have backup navigation. I'm pretty experienced in the outdoors and wilderness first aid but even I made a nearly fatal mistake. Got off trail and didn't let anybody know where I was going. Luckily my friend's phone had about 45 seconds of battery left and he had the map of our area on the phone and were able to get back on trail. So don't get complacent.
@jayv.8298
@jayv.8298 3 месяца назад
I use the spot device. I always never have cell service (Canada) when I hike. I send a message to my wife when i get to camp. And I have the SOS button in case something goes bad. My last worry on trail (2-4 days) is to look at my emails and texts…
@CJoy076
@CJoy076 3 месяца назад
I was section hiking and mine was great to arrange transport when there is no service. Also once when the temperature was unexpectedly hot and I couldn't make a pick up point in time, saved a lot of worry.
@andymytys
@andymytys 3 месяца назад
iPhone uses a different satellite network than the InReach. It’s not as fast to get a message out due to more limited coverage.
@DarwinOnthetrail
@DarwinOnthetrail 3 месяца назад
It's probably not something I would jump on right away. It will take them a bit to really "get it right"
@LeonidasontheTrail
@LeonidasontheTrail 3 месяца назад
I finally caved and bought one because my wife mentioned it would give her more peace of mind. I had started doing longer solo trips, FKT attempts and trying to push my limits solo. I use it in different ways depending on the trip. I have the trips where she is with me and in that case, it is solely used for the SOS functionality. In an FKT or solo situation, it is setup to live track. I have had to use it once for the messaging feature, I was on an FKT attempt, got really wet, cold and I needed to bail. No service were I was so I used the messaging to let her know I needed a pickup.
@DarwinOnthetrail
@DarwinOnthetrail 3 месяца назад
Excellent! Hope you're doing well brother! 🤙
@LeonidasontheTrail
@LeonidasontheTrail 3 месяца назад
@@DarwinOnthetrail doing great! Glad to see you back and posting content that you enjoy producing!
@TheThomasites
@TheThomasites 3 месяца назад
Use a PLB. No subscription. Free SAR if required.
@rangerdoc1029
@rangerdoc1029 3 месяца назад
What's a PLB?
@LoremIpsum1970
@LoremIpsum1970 3 месяца назад
@@rangerdoc1029 Personal Locator Beacon.
@LoremIpsum1970
@LoremIpsum1970 3 месяца назад
What do you use?
@TheThomasites
@TheThomasites 3 месяца назад
@@LoremIpsum1970 the PLB that you can get locally is good. Many out there. ACR, Ocean Signal, etc. Just make sure to register it with your country's beacon registry. Canada is the Canadian Beacon Registry - National Defence. US it's Beacon Registration - NOAA.
@LoremIpsum1970
@LoremIpsum1970 3 месяца назад
@@TheThomasites I guess the 'only' downside is with 'cheaper' units like the PLB1 is they don't have SARSAT RLS, and InReach has the two-way messaging. I'd certainly have a PLB as a last option device.
@unleashtheginger0
@unleashtheginger0 3 месяца назад
I ordered one the other day because I’ve recently started running a lot of near mountain marathons on my own in areas with no cell phone signal. The ability to be tracked and communicate with folks when I’m about to do something sketchy and then have reached safety is hopefully reassuring for folks that care about me. Multiple people suggested I acquired one, which I took to be a sign. And while my phone does support satellite communication, it’s also my phone so has worse battery life, is more fragile, and used for photos and as my GPS map.
@ronaldmcdonald3965
@ronaldmcdonald3965 3 месяца назад
I would carry one in the 21st century. 1986 in Arctic, I left letters with route and timing with the Ranger on how to search for us if we don't come out in time. In that trip, no phone, no GPS, no trail, map and compass, 1:250,000 paper map.
@seanwilson6521
@seanwilson6521 3 месяца назад
Starlink + new phone = Inreach - $$$ this fall...
@DarwinOnthetrail
@DarwinOnthetrail 3 месяца назад
Does sound tempting
@connormcrae5686
@connormcrae5686 3 месяца назад
The satisfying message chirp sound alone is worth it. Plus the peace of mind :)
@DarwinOnthetrail
@DarwinOnthetrail 3 месяца назад
That noise always freaks me out when I hear other people's devices go off in the middle of the night when I'm in my tent 😂
@connormcrae5686
@connormcrae5686 3 месяца назад
@@DarwinOnthetrail Haha, hope that wasn't me!
@ayurgal
@ayurgal 3 месяца назад
I was backpacking with some friends a couple of years ago. On the second day out, I saw multiple messages on my InReach from wife which was very unusual. She was asking if I was ok and if the forest fire was any where near us. I told her what fire. Apparently, the day we started out the Creek Fire started. We got trapped for three days behind the fire and needed to get helicopter rides home. I am never going backpacking without one again.
@jmorrison5206
@jmorrison5206 3 месяца назад
You don’t need one. Until you do.
@christinevinnie2157
@christinevinnie2157 3 месяца назад
As a solo, female, Aussie hiker I carry a plb. I hike on trails that have a high population of venomous snakes ( 2 in the top 5 deadliest). If bitten first aid is to stay still/stop moving. I’ve been on hikes where I haven’t seen another person for days. So PLB is my rescue if needed (oh, and it’s free here in Australia).
@SasSaga
@SasSaga 3 месяца назад
I’m 58 and live in Texas. I don’t leave home without mine , even when just driving across Texas. There are many places with no cell service, and I keep mine with me in my vehicle. Of course, when backpacking, I don’t go out without mine. If I don’t need it for me, I may need it for someone else….
@eda715
@eda715 3 месяца назад
Years of backpacking I never had one. Bought one and my first trip with it, I needed it. Would have been in a really tight spot without it.
@David-h7q6g
@David-h7q6g 3 месяца назад
Having been a backpacker, climber, and hiker in the wilderness for 52 years, my age now 73, I do pack an ACR device which only sends an emergency signal if needed. A good thing about this device is there is no yearly service fee. The signal is monitored by an agency in the federal government. All I have to do is every two years update my information with them, and I am good to go. I carry it now just for a peace of mind, you’ll never know what could happen.
@rkatrails
@rkatrails 3 месяца назад
I had an ACR too but thought I accidentally threw it out when I moved. After extensive searching and not finding it, I bought the inReach Mini 2 with an annual safety plan. Thereafter I found my ACR ResQLink in a shoebox. Oh well. But I do like the check-in and messaging capability of the inReach.
@RubenAvila
@RubenAvila 3 месяца назад
Which one do you own?
@rkatrails
@rkatrails 3 месяца назад
​@@RubenAvila ACR Electronics ResQLink 400 Personal Locator Beacon $369.95 at REI. It will only send an SOS, no two-way messaging, but no annual fee either. Great option in my opinion.
@RubenAvila
@RubenAvila 3 месяца назад
@@rkatrails Thank you sir 🙏🏽
@David-h7q6g
@David-h7q6g 3 месяца назад
I agree the ACR is the way to go. Cost more, last a long time, no service fee. If all you want is an SOS signal.
@CanyonNerd
@CanyonNerd 3 месяца назад
Former technical canyon guide from Utah here. inReach's can be spotty in deeper canyons. If you're in a Narrow slot with tall walls (something Pariah wilderness, Zion Narrows, parts of the Grand, etc), going to be 50/50 on a chance of hitting a satellite. Important to always know where you can bail from a canyon to get to sat service and always have a check in time and plan with a loved one. iOS 18 will bring 2 way satellite communication to iPhone 15 pro, which will make inReach's null outside the battery life. Hopefully the competition brings down the inReach price, because the fees and subscription are steep unless you're constantly using it.
@wolfelau5602
@wolfelau5602 3 месяца назад
Putting a lot of faith in a cell phone. Even with satellite I could never trust just a phone. InReach has one purpose and one purpose only, and I take comfort in that.
@RideWithJosh696
@RideWithJosh696 3 месяца назад
Iphone for the win. wont ever use anything else once that hits
@RideWithJosh696
@RideWithJosh696 3 месяца назад
@@wolfelau5602 Its going to work the same as the Inreach so its not any different...
@Barleyologist
@Barleyologist Месяц назад
@@wolfelau5602 InReach is a small electronic device with a sat antenna that talks to the iridium satellite network... Why would a cell phone being a small electronic device with a sat antenna that talks to the iridium satellite network be 'worse' at that function then the InReach? Did a trillion dollar company that has a history of really good hardware fail to design an electronic device capable to communicate with satellites? Just trying to understand your logic.
@wolfelau5602
@wolfelau5602 Месяц назад
⁠​⁠​⁠@@BarleyologistMy logic is that phones themselves are sensitive to damage, software updates/failures, and can have battery issues (too hot/too cold). I understand that the phone can function the same if not better than an InReach in some cases, but phones aren’t as reliable in my opinion when it comes to them being extremely sensitive pieces of glass with fickle hardware that can fail you when it’s too hot or cold. My phone has disappointed me too many times in the real world for me to trust it as my MAIN lifesaving device when I’m hiking solo in the woods. I applaud the advancement of iPhone satellite technology, but the phone body and hardware itself is too sensitive for me to bet my life on it. An InReach is a very basic hunk of hard plastic with simple hardware that was designed to take abuse and still function as it should afterwards. An iPhone can fall 12” and be destroyed. I will never bet my life on an easily confused and breakable piece of glass.
@oscarclaesson3867
@oscarclaesson3867 3 месяца назад
Amongst the mountains in northern Sweden we can spend days without reception. Therefore I use the Inreach mini 2. Not only for my own safety but also for my family to be able to contact me!
@rachescakes
@rachescakes 3 месяца назад
I’ve never carried one. When I first started hiking they didn’t exist and I stayed on well traveled trails. If I got hurt, it wouldn’t be long before someone happened along. Now I go on more backcountry trails, but the places I go that didn’t have a cell signal 10 years ago do now. I can see a benefit and I’m not saying I’ll never have one, but for now my phone and keeping my husband informed of plans has been completely adequate.
@Johnnywalleye1
@Johnnywalleye1 3 месяца назад
If you are not using it to navigate zeleo is the way to go
@DarwinOnthetrail
@DarwinOnthetrail 3 месяца назад
Yeah... That's definitely why I'm looking at some other ones
@Eric12358
@Eric12358 13 дней назад
Watching that SOS tv show scared the hell out of me. So i got one. every one of those tragic true stories wouldn't have happened if they just had an SOS device.
@CalVlogz
@CalVlogz Месяц назад
U.S. Coast Guard Flight Mechanic here.. MANY of our calls have been triangulated with SOS devices and personally have pulled people out of the Oregon backcountry on more than one occasion. I’m not going on trail without one.
@rnmcginnis
@rnmcginnis 3 месяца назад
One thing to remember. All SOS and messaging devices need a good view of the sky to connect with the satellites. They may not connect in canyons, deep valleys, or under heavy treecover.
@LoremIpsum1970
@LoremIpsum1970 3 месяца назад
get the 67i.
@VenturingValerie
@VenturingValerie 3 месяца назад
​@LoremIpsum1970 Does the 67i have a different connection to the satellites that other versions? And are there any other brands that compare to that connection as well?
@LoremIpsum1970
@LoremIpsum1970 3 месяца назад
@@VenturingValerie Apart from SOS and messaging, it's the same as the 67 [ GPS / Galileo / Beidou / QZSS / IRNSS, Multi-band, 6' reliable accuracy] Hikingguy has three videos on this.
@sagehiker
@sagehiker 3 месяца назад
I found in practice, if set a messenger out in the most open spot you can find in heavy cover or canyon bottom, leave it be with good orientation, signals do get thru in 16-20 minutes. Less with Spot, more with ones that use the Iridium satellite network. If you are moving constantly in canyons or cover, the less likely to have connection.
@LoremIpsum1970
@LoremIpsum1970 3 месяца назад
@@sagehiker Though that assumes you're in a condition to move to that 'best' place or someone else is. Even so, finding out local SAR capabilities beforehand might be a good idea --> "inReach SOS: What REALLY Happens (And What Might Not)"
@Shraps
@Shraps Месяц назад
My best friend went missing hiking solo a few years ago. The incident made me nervous to go outdoors solo. I recently picked up an inreach which has given me the confidence to get back out there. 400 is worth the piece of mind. I wish my homie had one.
@leesonoutdoors
@leesonoutdoors 2 месяца назад
I have two views for decades we were just fine without them HOWEVER at 50 YO flying solo most of the time and decades of Military and Firstresponder mileage on my body I do have one and take along but only use for SOS and messaging still use good ole fashion land NAV techniques lol This said I use like crazy linked to and IPAD for NAV when overlanding
@desertfox486
@desertfox486 3 месяца назад
If you don't take one, you might end up being featured in a Kyle Hates Hiking dead hiker video. This is how I plan on getting my 15 minutes of fame.
@rustyboltz5304
@rustyboltz5304 2 месяца назад
67i is my goto map / SOS device. Solo hiking and my first trip out had no cellphone service in most of Enchanted Rock State Park Texas and did not take it. I have not made that mistake ever again. Plus, it is taking time to learn its functions and tips to get the most out of it. Yes, I also have onx backcountry and alltrails, but I was a good Boy Scout. Be prepared, then add 50 years of age and a big boy. My knees are not as young as my heart is. Solo hiker.
@wohlhabendermanager
@wohlhabendermanager 3 месяца назад
I have one, and almost needed one the first time I brought it on a trip. It was a pretty steep mountain that I needed to traverse (the slope was from north to south, and I needed to go from west to east) and I just leaned forward a tiny little bit to see where I can place my foot next. Next thing I know is I am slipping down the slope. Luckily I immediatly found a foot hold and overall I think I slipped like 5cm at maximum, but this little octosecond, where I noticed I was slipping without knowing where to place my foot yet was a really shocking experience. If I had slipped further down I definitely would've broken one leg, if not both. Things I learned: DON'T LEAN FORWARD WITH YOUR BACKPACK ON! At least not if you are sitting on a mountain slope. As for navigation: If I can, I preload the trail data onto the device. It's good to check if I am still on the right track. I wouldn't use it as my only device, though.
@TheMetaSD
@TheMetaSD 3 месяца назад
Given that the iPhone is gaining Satellite text messaging in the fall (with Android devices certain to soon follow) I would bet many of these satellite communicators will probably go away soon -except for the SOS specific devices like Garmin's inReach series. Personally, I am like you, and mostly navigate with my phone, but I do carry a Garmin 67i (The "i" indicating it also has inReach capability) around as a backup navigator just in case I break my phone (which I HAVE done once before) or destroy my maps (which I have ALSO done before). I figure getting lost is one of the most preventable problems in backpacking so why not have a second GPS navigator (Or third if you count my watch). Plus, if I can add SOS capability on top of that, then BONUS! It's a such a small increase in weight so why not?
@PerfDayToday
@PerfDayToday 3 месяца назад
Have one, but I keep it in my pack, turned off., not strapped to my pack’s shoulder strap, turned on. Most of the trails I hike in OR and WA are low risk, (low probability of falling/injury from an exposed section) PCT etc.. A few years ago, I did turn it on while doing two solo river crossings deep in the Kalmiopsis Wilderness. With all due respect, I don’t see the need to have it turned on while hiking. I get that the tech exists, I just choose to not be in fear while hiking. But each to their own. Oh.. if one buys a Garmin PLB, they should buy the optional rescue insurance which I have. Probably move from the $50k policy to the $100k policy. There are now well known RU-vidr influencers who have used the rescue insurance and one influencer who perhaps that did not have that insurance; cost-$30 to $50 per year-no brainer. Ps. I’ve never gone into the backcountry expecting to rely on a cellular phone signal, many seemingly do which I find interesting.
@NotYou9311
@NotYou9311 3 месяца назад
I've never carried one - and I never will. I would carry a Sat Phone, IF they were reasonably priced. But, that would be for overall use, not just SOS issues. Eventually, cell phone networks and Sat Phone networks will merge. Until then, I will get by (and no, I am not even considering using someone else's device. I would never ask.) As it is, if I have a problem in the woods requiring medical evac, I'll just deal with it. If I die in the woods...better than dying in so-called civilization. Everybody dies - and we need fewer people on this earth, anyway.
@tracykooken2606
@tracykooken2606 3 месяца назад
Darwin, hi there. ive been hiking sinc the 70's. We only had paper maps or more than i should have perhaps i just aimed and went !?! I get both sides. and i THINK in ur cause its ALSO ,, as we get older realize the ease of our mortality. I know IN PART its what made me THNK of getting one. But i'm retired and it is another nible out of my resources. the " plan " that whole thing AND i cant think of a better place to die . thats not just talk ... my med kit would a dozen " thru hiker " kits 😅. yes ive been hurt but so was those that went b 4 us for 100's of years. i guess ya do what needs doing. But its so rare ..... u been going for wee bit of the clock and cuz you used ur head ya been alright. i agree the greater the risk the greater the chances. thats just the matter of fact. The more u drive the greater the chance of , God willing, scrape a fender only !!!!. again i THINK ur using ur head if ya YA THINK u will need it then listening to the voice in ur head is just smart. NONE knows about 2moro !!! let alone 1 hour from now. a guy and his girl was killed in a head on wrong way drive on the way back from vegas justa few days ago. a co worker of my wifes. Good people a good worker all that stuff..... gone. we dont know our time but God gave us a brain 2 useto better our odds !!.. i think ur on the right path personally. may not b 4 me..... now. But glad u r !! i wish u the very best and my the wind b at ur back amigo !!!
@fredlevel897
@fredlevel897 3 месяца назад
in 2018 I started to carry a PLB, the ResQlink from ACR, only concerned about the potential need to send a SOS when there is absolutely no GSM coverage (pretty often in some regions like Scottish Highlands). As for messaging, GPS tracking, etc. I solely rely on my iPhone and favorite apps
@wisenber
@wisenber 3 месяца назад
Doing mostly solo and/or less traveled routes, I've been using one for over a decade when one-way SPOT was about all that was out there. Now I use a full-sized InReach. I even used it as my primary navigation when I sailed a small sailboat from NC to Bermuda and back. It's a multi-tool for me. I log my trips, get tide info, get weather info, send "OK" messages to by contact, all without worrying about a cell signal. It just happens to have an SOS feature if I need it. All of that is included in the cheapest subscription, so why not make use features you're already paying for?
@noyopacific
@noyopacific 3 месяца назад
I have an InReach Mini. I had been only carrying it as an SOS device. I thought I might send occasional messages but never did. Rather than paying for the required subscription to use the InReach I got a Personal Locator Beacon (a PLB, model: ResQLink.) The initial cost of a PLB is higher but it doesn't require a subscription. PLB's are supposed to transmit more reliably with a 3X stronger signal and it uses the larger SARSAT satellite network. It is supposed to work better in marginal conditions like deep canyons, heavy tree cover and bad weather.
@alijaber1111
@alijaber1111 3 месяца назад
Was considering to get one, but with IOS 18 now you can use same features, and SOS /satellite communication , I feel it is better to stick with my iPhone, however the Garmin Mini is 100 times durable and the charge last for days compared to a phone. Thank you for the video 😊
@rumidude
@rumidude 3 месяца назад
In general I don't like any of these devices. For one reason, they are not a guarantee of rescue. Depending on the particular device, there are multiple points forfailure. For instance with a PLB the individual must be able to activate it, which might not be possible. With a tracking/messaging device the user must remember to turn on tracking, which surprisingly happens often, as well as activate the SOS button. Secondly, there is a bit of a learning curve for proper use. And when the SHTF, if the operation is not second nature, it can really complicate things. And that leads to the third thing,they can get in the way of enjoying the backcountry. Too often people end up enamored with the tech and play with it when they should be enjoying the moment. Endlessly messaging, checking things, playing with the features. Finally they are expensive. Two years ago I got an inReach Mini at a steep discount by combining a few discounts. Iwas 70yo and thought maybe I should get one. I no longer use it and will likely gift it to my son for his backcountry motorcycle adventures.
@ropersix
@ropersix 3 месяца назад
Newer iPhones have satellite SOS, and will soon have satellite messaging. I have an Android, so I'm out of luck for now, but that does sound like the future of back country satellite devices. And while I do have an In-Reach Mini and a Garmin GPS watch, I have plenty of complaints about Garmin, and would like to be done with them.
@mezmerya5130
@mezmerya5130 22 дня назад
I've participated in too many volunteer search efforts to consider ever going without one solo.
@pastorrickbackus6501
@pastorrickbackus6501 3 месяца назад
I’ve done most of my hiking solo and in the Adirondacks where there is rarely cell service- so I use it for messaging and the SOS feature- I don’t use it to navigate although my wife is able to click on a link and see my location on a map. For navigation I use Gaia (although I’ll be using FarOut for my 2025 AT Thru hike)
@johnnyhoover5870
@johnnyhoover5870 2 месяца назад
I never carried one but never knocked anyone for carrying one either. It's it the smartest move, eh. I leave detailed plans and what day I'll check in just in case. Not the best way to do things now with all this technology but that's how I have done it since the 80s. I do have a SOS feature on my phone now so that's what I'll use going forth.
@planesandbikes7353
@planesandbikes7353 3 месяца назад
Trails with traffic probably helps more than SOS, on average. I've carried a Spot and never used it. I have an Inreach Mini I have not removed from its box in 3 years. Now my wife's iPhone has SOS feature included. A couple hikers in my area fell off a mountain in distant wilderness, injured and were rescued after turning on their iPhone SOS signal - neat. I better sell the Inreach as phones and sat-to-phone comms are going to become ubiquitous.
@jordtube
@jordtube 3 месяца назад
I use a PLB. The Garmin Inreach has an expensive subscription. While the PLB has no ongoing cost. I’m waiting for SpaceX to activate starlink to mobiles at the end of this year which will make the inreach redundant.
@RogerMassicotte
@RogerMassicotte 3 месяца назад
I had a Delorme In Reach device in pack while doing the Grand Canyon R2R in October 2012. I did use it to help a woman who had heat exhaustion. The monitoring center contacted the Park Rangers who gave me instructions. The unit I carried was the first iteration of the InReach and it was almost the size of a brick 😅.
@kristymoore7052
@kristymoore7052 3 месяца назад
I’m sixty and I backpack solo a lot so I bought one for my own and my loved one’s peace of mind. I have the huge one so I don’t like carrying it, but I do. I have used it for navigation 2x when the trail was sketchy, to send messages to loved ones maybe 4 times when they were nervous about where I was going. This is after several years and several hundred miles. I Have never used the sos and I plan on saying that for the rest of my life. Will I carry it? Always. Do I want the mini? Yep, but can’t justify the cost.
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