Why I Don't Like Treble Bleeds 

From what I understand, the Panther and the G6620T have the same pickups, "High Sensitive FilterTrons". There are some structural differences between the guitars, like the bridge, for example. The Panther has a rosewood fingerboard, while the G6620T has an ebony fingerboard (brighter). But yes, the G6620T has a treble bleed on the master volume pot and also a no-load tone pot. The treble bleed should only have an effect when you turn down the master volume pot, so you should not be able to hear its effect if the master volume pot is all the way up. The no-load tone pot will make the guitar a little brighter when it is all the way up (i. e. when you're not darkening the tone). A regular tone pot will always cause the circuit to lose a little bit of treble, because even when it is all the way up, there is still a little bit of treble that is able to leak to ground through the tone capacitor. So along came the idea of cutting the resistive carbon track inside the pot near its "all-the-way-up" end. When the wiper of the pot travels there, it is completely disconnected from ground, instead of just reaching the point of maximum resistance of the track. So, basically, now we have infinite resistance, and therefore it is impossible for the high frequencies to leak through the capacitor to ground. So here are some of the elements that could explain the differences you heard. I think you should always trust your ears and how a guitar feels in your hands more than marketing hype. Affordable guitars are not necessarily junk and expensive guitars are not necessarily better.

@@charlesdespres , OK, good explanation. I'm following you and I definitely see how the "Treble Bleed" works on the the Nashville G6620T, and I DID infact purchase 1-of the Used Nashville's. The price was good and the Guitar Build for this model is amazing. It's just too darn nice to have passed up and the Nashville Plays like butter . . just damn near perfect playablility from that Terada factory. However, despite this I am still Wrestling with this "Treble Bleed" tone issue. Yes, the Bridge's of both models are different, but my thought and over 35yr playing experiences that this Tonal Difference has more to do with what's going-on Electrically and with Electrical Components, capacitors that are creating this dilema of BLUNTED-TONE. I will explain, at BASELINE (Idle) the Nashville sounds "Thinner", less dynamic range, clarity than my buddy's Panther when both are TURNED UP MAX. The Nashville has Less Bite, Growl, more artificial-buzzy, less dynamic tone to my ear when put thru my Mini-Rig of 2-12 HotRod Deville, Fulltone OD, some Chorus and slight Delay for Classic Rock Covers . . . that is to say, that right from the start there is a significant tonal difference of the Nashville that doesn't allow it to play Rock nRoll. NOT METAL!! I do not mean Heavy Metal (metallica), . I am referencing Classic Rock, Stones, Bad Co, Beatles, Led Z, AC/DC, Motorhead etc So what I was wondering WHAT EXACTLY should I do, In swapping-Out Components to approximate STANDARD Wiring "Panther Wiring" . . .I am comfortable with working on guitars. I have replace Pick-up's many times, Waxed (microphonic) Pick-ups etc I need some helpful advice on this because I feel this Nashville should / could definitely sound alot better, Thanks !! J

@@jtomrx If the Nashville sounds "thinner", it could have to do with some apparent extra treble it may have due to the circuit. Since you say you bought the guitar used, someone may have modified it before it got to you. If you want to find out if you like the treble bleed, maybe you could take out the master volume pot where the treble bleed is supposed to be found. You probably don't have to take the whole harness out (which can be a pain). Maybe you could fish the pot out of the body through the neck pickup hole, just so you could get at it. I'm just guessing, because I don't have one such guitar to look at. Make sure you secure a way to put the pot back in place before you drop it into the body. Dental floss or surgical tubing over the pot shaft can help to bring it back through the hole. Dan Erlewine talks about these methods in the Guitar Player Repair Guide, if I remember correctly. Once you have access to the pot, you don't have to take the whole treble bleed off, you could just unsolder one side so it is out of the circuit. Then you could compare which configuration you like best before making a change (or not). Also, maybe the value of the pots is different in the guitars you are comparing. That could make a significant tonal difference. Common values found in guitars with passive electronics are 250KOhms (S- and T- type guitars with single coils), 500KOhms (guitars with humbuckers) and 1 megOhm. Higher values will give more treble and make the pickups sound a little hotter, because they place more resistance between the pickups and ground. Another thing that could affect tone slightly is the value of the tone capacitor, but in your case, it is taken out of the circuit by the no-load tone pot when fully up. But if the other guitar does not have a no-load tone pot, its tone capacitor should make it slightly darker (in subtly different ways according to the value of the cap), even with the tone control fully up. Of course, maybe the pickups are different after all, and may not be wound to the same number of turns, or may have different magnets. But before deciding if you like the pickups or not, you could try adjusting the pickup height to see if you get results that are more to your liking. Also, FilterTrons have polepiece screws that can be used to alter string balance. Maybe those are adjusted differently on the two guitars. Hope this helps. I'm sure it's a beautiful guitar! Most if not all guitars can be made to sound great (or more to your taste) with some fine tuning.

My Nashville is STOCK! The Thin / Blunted tone has been described a number of times. I played THREE (3) used Nashville's this year and ONE (1) New, before I settled on the one I purchased "Used. I'm In-Love with the Build, just impeccable workmanship, perfect as far as I can see. The Nashville's COLOR is amazing. The G6620T that I bought "Used" was the Best Sounding of the Four (4). I've read how the Treble Bleed circuit can be "Added-On" to existing Volume / Tone controls . . . but I would like to know to REMOVE it from my Guitar because it came as Stock. If I need to Order new Master Pot and Tone Pot . . I will do it. I essentially want my Nashville to Standard Wiring, ie like FALCON CENTER-BLOCK. I may even buy a TV Jones pick-up . But nowhere can I find Directions / Instructions how to RE-Wire to Standard Wiring. I want my Fingers to Dictate Tone, not a Capacitor / Resistor. I even emailed Joe Carducci re any Instruction / advice to make my Nashville Standard Wiring . . . he did not reply

@@jtomrx Here is the stock wiring according to Gretsch's website: assets.ctfassets.net/3xaxfhpie9jb/n8lS5HPynICogkOSCkKom/198aaf0bf2b01238e3e05210c3965eb1/TonePotRev.pdf You do not need to buy any extra parts. You just want to disconnect the treble bleed cap. From what I can see in the schematic, it is soldered to the middle lug of the master volume pot and to the lug that the wire from the switch is soldered to.

Thank you for your advice, Marcos. I am sure a treble bleed with a resistor is better. But I think I really don't need a treble bleed after all.

So you noticed the same type of problem. Many people here seem to think that a more elaborate type of treble bleed is necessary to achieve good results. I can totally live without a treble bleed. Actually, I like the way a guitar responds without one.

I fully agree with you. I work with eletronic circuits and I really don't understand det "Duncan" version. Because the resistor is not only in parallel with the capacitor - it's also in parallel with the value of the pot. And what happens when you have 2 resistors in parallel ? ;-) Pots are also resistors, just variable. A resistor in parallel with the pot will lower the value of the pot. That is pure simple Ohms Law and not except just because it's in a guitar. ;-) Example: lets say we put a 500K pot in the middle position then we have 250K to both sides and if we put a resistor of 130K over the one of the two sides of the pot - then we have a pot that shows 250K the one side and 85,5K the other side where it would have been 250K without the 130K resistor. With the 130K resistor and the 500K pot in parallel - you end up with a pot on 335,5K total (85,5K + 250K). So there is no trees growing into heaven here..... The next thing they will sell at the guitarshop, is probably the chord spray for the fretboard so you'll be able to hit the chords easier ;-) And you have to buy minimum 3 spary cans before it really works. 😛 The only way you can reduce the use of this spray, are if the guitar have been on the Moon prior to that. ;-)

Thank you for your comments, Aleksandr. To answer the points you made, starting with the first one: I said in the video I was worried that my pickups were a bit too dark sounding, which is why I thought I'd use a treble bleed. But yes, I probably didn't need one in the end. Second, you are right, it is a matter of point of reference, but in practice, I found the sound to be too thin when I turned down the volume. Thirdly, once again, you are right: I used a very simple treble bleed. I must say it is the kind I have come across in most guitars I have held in my hands and I have always ended up snipping them out, including in an Epiphone Zephyr Blues Deluxe, in which they were supposed to cure the problem of the incredibly muffled pickups. Instead, I rewound the pickups to vintage specs and removed the treble bleed caps, and I was astounded at the result. It is true I am not familiar with all types of treble bleed, but my experience with simple, cap-only treble bleeds and finding out that I never really need them and that they create more problems than they cure has not made me want to experiment further. Besides, being more specific in the title of the video would have made it too long! 😄

Thank you for your comments. As I showed in the video, that's exactly what I do, too. I have not found the cap-only treble bleed to be of any help in that situation, on the contrary. But if it works for you, then keep enjoying your cap-only treble bleed! Different people will have different preferences and I do not mean to tell other people what's good for them. Cheers!

Thank you for your comment. You are right, there are as many approaches as there are guitar players. Have a nice day!

Thank you very much for your comment! I am sure the Emerson kit sounds good. I am glad it is working well for you.

Hi, thank you for your comment. You are right in saying most Teles are quite bright, but this particular one isn't. I took the original Squier pickups apart, changed the polepiece staggering so I would get better response from the individual strings (mostly the wound G because I like heavy strings for slide) and I rewound them pretty hot, probably a bit too much, as I said in the video. The DC resistance of the neck pickup is 9.39 KOhms and that of the bridge pickup is 8.82. The neck pickup especially is very dark. That's what got me experimenting with a treble bleed in the first place, because I was afraid of losing any highs. But in the end, I found the treble bleed did more harm than good. And after all, I kind of dig the dark pickups, because when played through a cranked amp, this guitar really roars! I'm sure I could try out more complex filters and that some work better than others, but in retrospect, I have never been satisfied with the way treble bleeds work in other guitars I have owned. But who knows? Maybe one day I'll change my mind. I'm sure there are many people out there who are perfectly happy having a treble bleed in their guitar.

Thank you for your comment. There are many treble bleed configurations. I tried a simple one, with just a capacitor. Some people use a resistor in addition to the capacitor, either in series or parallel. Also, the values of the capacitor and resistor can be adjusted to taste. It seems a bit overcomplicated for a result I find questionable. But that is just my opinion. If you are happy with your specific treble bleed, there is nothing wrong with that and by all means enjoy it!

Thank you for your comment. No, I haven't. I am aware that it is something that can be done, and that the resistor can be wired in series or in parallel, with different results. Also, the values or the cap and resistor can be fine tuned. I am glad to hear that this type of configuration works for you. The slight treble loss that occurs when turning down the volume doesn't really bother me after all.

​@@charlesdespresI have a bleed circuit wired in parallel to a resistor It's kind of necessary with the broadtrons in the particular guitar I'm referencing

It must be a very cool guitar! I have always found Warmoth necks to be top notch, so I assume the rest is great too. And you are right, mods need to be considered on a guitar to guitar basis.

@@charlesdespres Though it's not perfectly dialed in yet, my Warmoth feels great to play. It's my first custom, so there are some things I'm discovering about that aspect of guitar to which I'd previously taken for granted. The next mod I want to do is change from the .0047uF cap that I thought I'd love and change it to a .033uF. After the tone capacitor mode, I need to install some string trees. I have a reverse strat headstock and the low E, A & D are resonating like crazy, as to the angle of the string from the nut to the tuning peg.

@@jamesrobinson529 Very interesting! It is true that building custom guitars is a great opportunity to learn a lot about guitars.

I am sorry the camera work does not meet your standards. I will gladly issue a full refund :)

Thank you for your comment, Dave! I agree with you.

I beg to differ. As I said in the video, the green cap is .001 µF, which is the most common value for a treble bleed. It is already a very small value and would not work well for a tone control. For a tone control, you'd want anything from .022 µF to 0.1 µF.

People who use treble bleeds aren’t trying to be Jimmy page, clapton, santana, or jimi. We just want our guitars to not get muddy when we lower the volume lol

Yes, that is a great idea. I ended up taking out the tone control completely. My neck pickup is so fat and dark that I don't need one.

Yes, it is the simplest form of treble bleed there is. Variations on it probably work better.