@@associationar-terre5473 I think what's not being understood is that no one likes an internet moralist, karen. This was years ago. SirValor has a sense of humor and is pretty chill.
Our family took one cruise. It was in I think 2012. Day one heard you featured on “The Chicken”. That was my musical highlight of the cruise. During the rest the cruise I’d say to my wife and grade school age daughters, “Hey, there’s that great tenor guy”, whenever we would see you performing. They were somewhat less enthused. Years late found you on RU-vid.
@@ezekielwriter2620 the stress of being broke. Most of the time doesn’t usually outweigh the few times you do get some money plus now everything is so mediocre and based on what’s popular on social media that there’s very little critical thinking skills when it comes to music so people who can really play like jazz, musicians, etc. are about to become a dying breed.
@@boeing10000Classical pianist and a piano teacher here (and an occasional choral conductor, choral singer and a bar pianist) - it depends; the struggle to get gigs is real, however when you teach full time and play at occasional concerts and gigs during your free time - one can definitely survive (still). It’s about having contacts amongst your colleagues, teachers and classmates from your music high school and college and a bit of luck.
Your channel should be required reading for everyone who is either a working pro musician or considering becoming one You know EXACTLY where the pitfalls in the business are, and you relate them in a way we can all appreciate. Playing music professionally is a dream job, but the nightmare part of it catches anyone who doesn't know what to look for and avoid Subscribed.
I was a sound technician for Costa from 1997 to 2000. I tried Celebrity in 2000 to 2001 and went back to Costa in 2002. I married my wife who I met with Costa in 1997 and in 2002 we both quit the lifestyle. As cruise lines got bigger they got more demanding and paid less. The good people were never given what they were worth and the bad kept getting work because nobody else would do it. When I was manager of 7 technicians and only 2 would actually work I told the cruise line either they go or I go. They didn't listen to me so I walked off with 1 days notice and never went back. Those were the days! I hear ya!
Good things always get corrupted. Money, prestige, ego…stupidity, Dance in when it’s great, dance out before it gets funky. I’ve never wanted to set foot on a cruise ship, you just validated my feelings.
BROOOO!!! I loved working with you on the Summit in 2008! LMAO I literally can still hear the voice message when we did like...25 days in a row with no day off and we finally got one "day off, day off, day off, day off" I had no clue you were doing RU-vid!! Great to see you
When I got to college in 1997, all the guys in my jazz program that I looked up to seemed to play on cruise ships in the summer. They gave me the good and the bad. I heard lots of stories about boredom, STDs, rampant alcoholism, and strict rules (on some lines) about where crew members could walk and be seen. I was very close to looking for work when I got a call to do some touring on land and I never ended up getting on a ship. It wasn't until a few weeks ago that I went on my first cruise, on the Holland America Westerdam, to Alaska. They market this ship as an entertainment/live music-centric and it was pretty good, all told. I did wonder what the pay was like these days but never got to really chat with any of the band members. Thanks for giving your perspective!
I worked on ships for a little under 3 years until I realized the lifestyle just wasn’t for and left a contract 2 months early due to health reasons. The drinking aspect is really really REALLY something they need to get under control. I’ve witnessed multiple people and friends that I’ve worked with die from jaundice in the middle of a contract. One of the best piano bar guys I’ve ever heard (and one of my closest friends at the time) was one of the people. We literally watched his eyes and skin turn yellow and more darker yellow in a matter of weeks and one day and never showed up for embark and come to find out he died in his sleep. The very next contract I took was the one that I left 2 months early and haven’t been back since.
I got a call in college for a cruise ship gig and decided to pass based on stories I heard from classmates. It is so difficult to be a professional musician and I hope you get better gigs. Musicians really need more protections. It makes me sick to see what we get paid for streaming rights,etc. Cheers and thanks for the video! BTW - I like that you acknowledged the positive side of a cruise ship gig which is traveling. Looks like you experienced some amazing places.
@@sparty2761exactly. That's what I've always told my friends either. Luckily I had a B plan and resorted to it every time things got tough when I was playing professionally.
Absolutely GREAT channel...I mean a ONE OF A KIND source of great professional info for the musician PERIOD...practical advice for cruise ship gigging, club gigging, and just gigging in general. You're like the Questlove of saxophonist
Fascinating vid. I was a Guest Ent for 13 years. I worked Disney, Cunard, Princess, Norwegian and mostly RCI, but it was always such a succubus. I am a Juggler. We don't command the kind of salaries that the vocalists and musical guest ent acts do (the Bobby Arvons and Mark Donaghues), but we aways lived in this very grey world. We work 1 or two nights (a variety act might be part of the welcome aboard or farewell spot), and on RCI and on Princess we were mostly booted out of the crew bar. At least on RCI (thanks to a boy band tribute act we got kicked from the crew bar and lost access to the slop chest (crew store). So unless we know the other guest ents we essentially are in the ghost town onboard. On RCI they hold a pax cabin and staff cabins for the guest ents (other than their high end acts who get the suite which is not an act like mine). I would get the staff cabin. But, since we were not allowed in crew area, we would have to exit crew area the moment we left our room and get into a guest area immediately. It was nuts. The crew mess and staff mess would be right outside my door, but we could not go in. I have not been on ships since 2014, and I do not miss it. When you hire out for a show on land, the buyer hires you and watches either likes it or not. On ships, there are so many factors. Shoreside buyer. CD (who intros you and leaves to eat). The production manager. Comment cards. It's all politics. When I was there, musicians were constantly being held over (extended contracts) as they were having trouble getting new musicians on. It's also interesting to see how each line uses work forces from different 3rd world countries. You mentioned Ukraine. RCI liked the Philippines. Norwegian often hired from Romania etc. Awesome video good sir! Neat to see this perspective as many people don't know what life on a ship is like for entertainers. I will keep an eye out for more of your vids.
Man what an Experience you have had to have Travelled the World. I thought about working on a Cruise ship some years ago. I didn't know if I was good enough as a Musician but looks like I probably could have done it knowing most of the Musicians you mentioned were drunk. So Instead I played in the Church for about 11 years to get my Chops up on the Piano. I sing, songwrite and produce. I have some of my songs on my Channel. Thanks for Sharing.
I did one Jazz trio 3 month contract around 2007. I had a blast contrary to what all my friends/colleagues who had done cruise ship work for years told me. I don't drink, smoke or do drugs, so no issue there. I worked out during the day, lost 20 pds in 3 months, I was in great shape by the time I finished. I didn't want to do another contract, I had to get back to my on land obligations. I also shedded piano every night in the cigar bar lounge late after it closed and I was done with my gig. It was great playing straight ahead Jazz 6 nights a week. My jobs were at their best up to that point. I may do another one day. I will say there were challenges. I got along with everyone well enough. My roomate Bass player in my trio and I bumped heads in the beginning but we worked it out. Also, the baot drills sucked. Lol!
You bring up very good points about attitude, opportunity and experience. Two people may be offered the same opportunity, but attitude will make the difference between what each person takes out of it in terms of experience.
My worst trepidation about it was months at a time having to share quarters, especially at my current stage in life. No thanks. Also, getting punished for being good and ending up doing all the work while others goof off...I've never played a cruise ship, but that perfectly describes a couple of the bands I've been in and a lot of the bands I've turned down job offers to in recent years.
@@waltjames407 I've had great digs, proper suites, solo accommodation, short contracts (2 weeks) and none longer than 5. All depends on the gig/line. I played with some shockingly bad players, and some absolute monsters. I travelled everywhere and saved up cash. I had a proper laugh and saw some crazy stuff. There is a lot of drinking. Met my wife onboard and gave it up, it's not the same after Covid. Anyone thinking about it - go for it.
Enjoyed that. Im a keyboard player and was on the road in 97 87. Sounds like the typical way a musician gets treated. Got to see alot of the States and Alaska. Like you said after a while, all the towns start to look the same. Mountains are nice.
Wow, I have a good friend, a friend of the family since grade school, and he played the sax for decades on cruise lines. I had no idea what he was dealing with. I know that in the states, on land, most self-employed musicians can't eat, etc., but local clubs don't charge a door fee equivalent to a cruise at sea, so I find it quite disturbing, but not surprising that musicians are greatly exploited. I feel for you man. Glad you aren't doing that any more, and glad that you are educating people that might consider going blindly.
Thanks for sharing the inside story. I've been on a lot of cruises as a passenger but as a sax and keyboard player, have always wondered what it was like to play on a ship.
I started early following your vids from cruise ships. You have always had great vids! From our perspective, you were professional and focused, and the content consistently educational and very interesting. I think that says a lot about your character and respect for the music. Other vids that focus upon "What it is like to be a musician on a cruise ship" are not as revealing or as educational as this one! I am thankful that you had some great times in spite of the total imbalances in salary, bad hires, emotional instabilities, substance abuse, and job vagaries, etc.... Another impressive aspect is that you actually endured much, much longer than so many other musicians. I am lead tenor in a tight, consistent big band, and even this stable band has some challenges and "politics"! I can only imagine how much worse a cruise ship could be, with all of the various changes, personalities, and demands. I hope you are now playing all kinds of profitable gigs and can work as long as you want to. I used to think I would love to do a year only of cruise work just to build chops and become a better musician. I think a year would literally be all I could take. As an aside, having a "poor BMI" is not always bad, but please do watch your health and stay here on earth as long as you can. Heck, maybe you should get into session work, but I am sure that the biz is screwed up in that area, too! The "wrecking crew" days are past, unfortunately. I wish you all the best.
Thanks for sharing. I chose not to study music performance, because I wasn’t sure I had the energy to hunt for jobs afterwards. I was aware of a lot of the problems surrounding labor laws and workers‘ rights in the branch. Hearing it from your perspective makes me feel like I made the right choice for me. Still, I’m glad you had some cool experiences on the ships. Love to hear about your experiences!
😵💫☕️Wow man, I knew you had a bad time with that circuit, but I didn’t realize just how bad and frustrating it actually was!Thanks for sharing! 👍👨🏻 Peace..
Thus was some good stuff. I was all up in this story bcuz these things can translate to other jobs as well. Had a very similar experience working for Panera Bread.
I had a buddy in college who went on a cruise ship; came back a like totally different person. Didn’t want to play jazz anymore and joined a rock band. I think they were playing backing tracks and he was t the only one who said it was soul crushing.
Thanks for sharing your expirences of musicians on cruise ships. I worked cruise ships for years and I agree with you. You get put on with cats that can barely read music and have no solo chops so you end up picking up that slack. Even worse, if they find are you're a good arranger. You end up writing charts for every act that comes on the boat and recopying the horrendous charts that are already being used, for little or no money. Also, if a patron or fellow band member damages your equipment they do not pay to repair or replace it ( had that happen a few times). But you are correct when you say, when it's bad ..it's real bad . However, when it's good it's fire!!!
I spent a very short 6 months on a North European ferry service with a bunch of strangers playing bass. They were so in that groove that I felt myself so behind in experience and attitude that I vowed never to do it again and ultimately keep my work land based. We got on, but they had reservations for who I was as a person I believe by the ned of the contract we signed another two months for. It isn't for everyone. We were blessed with individual cabins and the liner had a tremendous and super respectful respect towards everybody on the ship. I met some amazing people and seen some pretty wild things. Our staff Xmas party was something from a Tarantino film. Since I left and after the degassing period of going back to a status quo, I felt a pull to explore again, and in your closing statement there, I too was gagging at the bit to get back on. Friends for life and the most crucial part was that in my entire musical life, I came off that ship the best musician I've ever known myself to be. When you play for 3 hours every night, 7 days a week for 6 months, that kind of work shapes you.
Good info . Makes me realize why I keep getting called in to work for people . They take advantage of good workers . Squeeze and squeeze . Thanks for the wake-up .
Thanks for sharing! Insightful! I will say those struggles you faced (cheaper foreign work and companies taking advantage of salaried employees) are common in the workforce in general.
My family took a cruise a month ago so this was very enlightening. I'm returning to sax after ages away (I'm primarily a guitarist) so I'm definitely going to check out your stuff.
My wife and I both work on Royal Caribbean as performers. I am the lead trumpet player for all the jazz gigs and any other shows onboard that require the horn section, and my wife is a singer. We both get paid $4,500 a month which isn't amazing, but for playing the music we love and the instrument we love every day, it's the dream. We've had back to back contracts since 2018 when we graduated college. A lot of the other stuff you're saying though is 100% true.
Thank you for sharing your experience, I received an offer for being a pianist on a ship but I refused and now I'm touring with a famous actor and you are confirming my doubts about being a musicians on a cruise so I dob't regret anything
I was fortunate enough to travel on crystal cruise lines. A few times. Just as a passenger although I did sit in at the piano bar and got hit on one night. That’s what happens with an open bar 24 seven as you pointed out. it was way high end. No, I didn’t pay for it never hurts to have Rich in-laws. Being a musican, and listening to your story about pay, I started professionally in about 1970. The average pay per night was 50 to 75 bucks. I was working at a lumber mill at the same time. My pay was $4.10 an hour. Now, here in the 21st-century, can you play an average local gig, and you make 50 to 75 bucks. Musicians put 1000 more times work in their craft and most people do and get paid 1000 times less for it. I suppose it depends on where you place your values , in any case, it is fascinating to hear what it’s really like on the other side of the cruise ship music business. Thanks for your insight.
Corporations will always maximize profits over people. That said, our son plays piano at a nice hotel and earns $75 an hour, plus tips. There aren't many (legal) jobs for teens that pay that much.
This is spot on, thank you for sharing! I’ve worked on and off on ships since 2009. I’ve worked on Carnival, Crystal, Celebrity, Cunard, RCCL, Princess. I can confirm all that you say has been very similar to my experience. I started as an orchestra musician (guitar), but eventually decided to go solo, because I also sing and mostly because the money is a lot better, I have my own cabin, guest privileges, and check this out - no rehearsals. I’ve never been fired, but I quit Princess last year, because the conditions were miserable beyond what I’m capable of calmly explaining. No human being should work under such conditions. I like to do short contracts mostly to break from everyday life and go visit some cool places. I love the ocean and the sea so that never gets old. But dealing with incompetent people on a ship is such a struggle, I can only take really small and infrequent doses of it. Best of luck 🙌
Cool reading your post on here Boyan. Interestingly enough, I didnt sign a recent contract with Princess (last minute) because the phrase thank-you and you're appreciated doesn't exist in their culture. Yes, there was far too much b.s. on that last ship contract to pollute the Tasmin Sea. He certainly dropped nothing but truth on this video. Exactly how it is.
Thank you Sir Valor. I never even came close to playing (tenor) sax at the level you play but I had to listen to your contracting stories. I contracted aircraft maintenance and I sat and laughed as you shared. Different fields but similar events when it came to coworkers that couldn't put the cork in the bottle and high expectations being levied. Some contracts were fantastic, most were good and the bad ones were the best remembered even when I didn't want to remember them! You get the gist. I love your command of knowledge. I saw your video on the selection of mouthpieces and the effects the mouthpieces generate. Sure would be nice getting your input on reed selection. Especially the pros and cons between natural and composite reeds and how they affect the delivery of music. Take care.
This is one of your best videos. The only positive thing about that mess is that those experiences brought out and highlighted your CONSISTENTLY AWESOME character. And now we get all your mad skills to ourselves. Also, you look DOPE on that camel in Egypt!
Greetings from an old pro (bass guitar). I hear you on the drunk bandmates, man. Dealing with drunk patrons is bad enough, but having drunks on stage with you is hell.
Those photos are beautiful you really did see the world my dad saw alot of the world too and yeah he doesn’t care so much to go back to everywhere again
26 years ago, I had a similar revelation and got off while I still could. #3 and #2 were almost at the top but my #1 was that I felt that I didn't own my life. Un-discussed, unannounced until the last minute transfers broke my back and I was done. Glad you made it out, hope you have some good memories.
Cool video. I'm 17 and I currently play the clarinet and in the future I have to pick up the saxophone as well. My family brought up this idea of going on cruise ships with a sax & a nice lady that can sing, living the best life, and it became my dream since then. Thank you for sharing your experience and I'm looking forward to the video where you talk about the bright side of it.
Man, that was super interesting! I've just been doing music full time for the last 3 months (guitarist/singer/bass). I mostly get these background shows playing popular covers. It's nice! Obviously, I wanna be playing my own stuff, but that doesn't pay the bills. I'm still pretty fresh to it and it feels a whole lot better than working in some warehouse. I guess it's a tale as old as time musicians getting shafted by a company or label or whatnot. Anyway, I hope you're finding more cushy jobs and a way to pay the bills without breaking your back 🤞
This is great information. I remember going to an audition with a bunch of friends. I wasn't interested as I was going to college soon but I remember people that ended up going and them saying that all there is to do is drink. Drink and play.
Hahahaha, I love the trombone player story. Worked for Princess Cruise lines and hated the living situation as well as the pay is to low. Don't think I'll ever go back. BTW, worked on the Regal Princes, Emerald (x2), Ruby, Golden. Thanks for the video, spot on.
Yes, it's great doing something you love and can create music for yourself and others. After 50 some years I've seen some strange and interesting situations that can raise the average eyebrow. I can see how cruise ships (as glamourous as they are portrayed) carry hidden horrors. Thanks for this real perspective on the industry and objectively describe your experience. I appreciate it!
Whoof. This was 100% truth. Did about 15 years myself (also a sax player)...I was on a new cruise line that opened after covid in 21 and they axed my position in the middle of my second contract with them. I did a river boat where they took the ship out of service and laid off the entire crew...I can commiserate. This video NEEDED to be made. Good on ya, man!
Great video, and really interesting. I did ships for a year or so 1999/2000 and in those days I had no extra duties, just played bass 4 or 5 sets a night and didn't get paid much. But I was young and just starting out.
Thanks for your take on the cruise ship gigs. I've never done it but a friend of mine did for quite a while so I sent your take on it to him, for a kick.
I had a piano player that practically begged me to take a bass playing/vocal position gig with him and like you, he had been doing this for over 20+ years and when I learned all of the micro-rules and political BS involved with doing this I politely said not no but hell no! Hearing your stories brought my own "idiots in the band" stories which made me have a good laugh but at the time it wasn't too funny because at that time I was playing full-time for a living. Thanks for telling it like it really is working on cruise ships.
Thanks for sharing, sorry things went that way after so long. Life is an odd, unpredictable journey. You might not know yet, what the next chapter holds. But you are smart & extremely talented, with drive & ambition. You can't fail with that combo.
Yeah, that "Coltrane set" for all the jazz educators on the cruise. For all those 'directors of jazz studies', for all those college jazz nerds with dreams of jazz stardom flexing their SICK substitutions at Smalls. Seeya at boat drill.
My cousin is a cruise ship guitar player lifer, he married another cruise ship employee and the contracts he has been working on allow for a marriage cabin and him being a band leader he gets a nice cabin. They visit his family in the states sometimes and her family in Thailand but they are almost always on a ship. The hardest part for him was never having kids. It was just never in the cards for them and their lifestyle but they are two very happy people who are quite miserable on land. Its pretty wild what they do... They come to the states... rent a small Camper or van and visit family, see some sites and back on the boat.
It was a great to get schooled about the reality of musician life.. I've always wondered about playing cruise ships, just never manifested.. I thank you for your story
I worked on cruise ships for 4 years. I only got fired once when my position, trombone, was cut, and I was the md making 3 grand a month! I started ships because the full time big band I was playing in got cut! I quit ships because i started a family! I liked the work generally but it had ups and downs, but I do recommend this work specially for young guys trying to make a living playing, which is very hard to do on land after university.
Nice one bro! I did ten years from 96-06,I guess I must've swung by you sometime. Those were good times,I figure stuff must've gotten stupid after that.I got to play some great shows and made some real friends and learnt a ton of music discipline! I hear what you're saying about getting the boot though,that tap on the shoulder fri night after the last show meant your ass was going shoreside the next day lol, although some companies used to downgrade you to the smaller older ships where you could work your way up again. Good times, bad times, but all in all it used to be a decent gig, especially if you wanted to push on musically and save some cash and see a few places. Nice one
Hello, I feel your pain regarding having to sell your instruments. About 12 or so years ago my wife and I found ourselves in a situation were I was forced to sell a bunch of my gear to make ends meet. I had to sell a Fender Strat that she bought me right after we got married in 1983. I cried when I sold it. I also had to sell my other Strat, two Fender amps and a Marshall 50 watt Plexi head from 1989 along with a 4X12 cabinet. Right now I play guitar in a big band here in Orlando and I love doing it.
For those that might be attempted to throw shade, I worked the creator back in 2012 - 2013 Winter season. We were sailing out of Florida to ports in the Caribbean. He's an excellent musician and speaks truth to power (you were on tenor at the time). Being a musician these days requires you to knit together a lot of different opportunities to "call it a career." And playing on ships is definitely a place where you can stay too long, or get stuck. For me, I love being on ships. But my perspective is different than most. I was in my 5th decade having already had a career in music performance, a family, a grown kid in college, and through, my undergrad, grad and doctor studies when I joined my first ship. So for me, the cruise ship gig is the last chapter of my story as a music professional. So, while I have a different perspective, the creator hits on all of the important challenges one will face. One thing for certain about working ships, it's not for everyone. And it's not for anyone if done for too long.
