why I hated Investment Banking 

Thought you said you'd stop talking about IB once you're out? Guess anything for those views...

I’m a former IBD summer analyst and your points really hit; I pissed away my weekends doing projects that literally never mattered or my superiors literally forgot about, even though they forced me to do it in breakneck speed. I couldn’t stand the level of pointlessness, the dated heirarchy, and how much of my time I wasted. So I took an extra year of college, switched to CS, got into Software Engineering, and now make IBD analyst pay for half the hours and half the unintelligent culture.

The tears really hit home. You feel helpless because you know you’re right and you know someone is being unkind to you for the sake of it rather than for a purpose that would benefit the business.

As a first year Associate in IB, I completely relate with every point said. The level of redundancy, resistance to change, and false sense of urgency in this industry is heartbreaking

I have been in investment banking for 22 years. You are correct; outdated procedures take so much time that in reality you end up being an overpaid secretary. This is everyone; with their Microsoft Word fonts, entering data into an excel spreadsheet, using a 10 year old piece of internal software that is ultra slow that requires someone to add all the details into it. All in all, again investment bankers are overpaid secretaries. FYI: my boss refuses to stop using Excel and Outlook as a database but keeps complaining that her PC keeps crashing all while holding onto 6,000 emails. They waste so much of your time with this. Investment banking only serves to feed the person who is above you ego. Their ego says the project has to be in their inbox by Monday at 8 am. There is no accountability or someone to tell these people that the way they do business doesn't make sense.

I completely agree! I work in the recruitment department for IB and the clients are super needy, want things done a certain way & when you deliver- it’s like crickets. I think it’s more about being heard and power than actual impact of some of their “urgent” demands. Our processes take forever & are outdated, and the bureaucracy is insane.

Friend of mine worked IB ... told me it was trash. He used to go after work and order tons of food at expensive restaurants just because he was working insane hours and needed something to "justify the madness". Thanks for sharing.

@Bryan Jun refreshing to hear people talk candidly about this, sounds to me like you’re reflecting on a toxic working culture in banking where respect isn’t afforded to juniors in order to reinforce hierarchy

I was a SA last summer and my associate gave me a company overview/pitch deck to do from start to finish over the weekend for the MD to look over before his lunch with a big client on Tuesday. I had to have it done by Monday for the associate to look over. I worked straight through the weekend including nights, it killed me lol. I still had to finish up on Monday and showed it to my associate late afternoon (luckily he was chill). The MD never ended up looking at it lol. I look at these things as tests of grit and focus in a way, knowing that next time I’ll be much more efficient on even harder assignments. Thanks for speaking honestly about banking, and you really shouldn’t be afraid to fully voice your dislikes without constantly disclaiming, regardless of it being a “high-paying” job. It really is not the end all be all and it’s good to bring attention to some of the nonsensical aspects of the job.

Thanks for being so candid, appreciate it. Knowing what really happens out there.

Appreciate your thoughts, your feedback is immensely helpful for someone eyeing the sector for a career. Thanks for taking the time to share your experience and I hope your new endeavor is more fulfilling!

Thanks for reflecting - very interesting video! Something I've thought about a lot.

I believe that a lot of times with these jobs is that you go in thinking you're getting hired to do the job that you worked and studied for but instead up becoming someones personal assistant

Also, there is a caste system in investment banking. They will really do things like force you to work on your time off to show you that in their world you are lower status than them.

Bryan, when you got to that "email in my inbox by 8am" only to hear about it days later, "It got lost in my inbox" part... That cut deep.

Glad I’m not the only one who thinks this way and I agree with your video. I absolutely hate it cause there’s so much pressure and stress. It makes you rethink the taking the job

Great insights, thanks for sharing this man 🙌🏾

Can’t stress the impact that group culture, and team has on a person’s experience in banking and finance.

Great video man

so sorry you felt like this. I already know from this video that you're a very creative person. I like giving my input on stuff too

I sort of agree with the Oxford comma point. I would definitely notice the inconcistency, especially because I have nothing better to do.

Thank you for making this video. This is deep, and it is empathetic.

Dude you fucking nailed this video. I worked in Big 4 accounting for a few years before lateraling to investment banking. I experienced everything you described plus more. I couldn’t even last a year before I put my notice in. For anyone watching the his video, this guy isn’t exaggerating and it has nothing to do work ethic. Investment banking is the easiest job I’ve ever had in terms of technical expertise/nature of the work, but most insufferable in terms of culture and peers

I related so much to this. Is not the pressure itself, but when superiors put so much pressure and make you spend so much of your time doing trivial grunt work that adds no value, it eats away at your character. Im glad I got out.

Great Video bro, I really enjoyed this. It was great insight into the culture of investment banking. Thank You

I started in startup world and just got into finance as a VP. Granted, I am in asset management not IB so it's a bit different in terms of work life balance BUT I really prefer the structure of a BB over the vague, no real room to grow, hyper visibility of working in a small scrappy startup. I worked in 4 of them before moving into a big bank. All in all I actually think most people will hate whatever they start their career in bc when you're just starting out the transition into a "real job" is just brutal. You will find all the issues with whatever it is and it will mess with your head. The overall way office jobs work is just unnatural and it takes a long time to settle into it.

I can relate to this so much. There is just one way out of this hell: being self employed.

very well openly discussed.....all the best for your future :)

I feel this. Although it could be your industry to meet a deadline over a weekend & then toss the idea entirely, but maybe also poor leadership/ work politics at play as well? (I've never worked in IB, so correct me if I'm wrong). The right managers/ leaders who are not afraid of getting questioned or receive pushback from a subordinate really can make a quality experience for yourself in the corporate scene. Anecdote: My industry has a high burnout/ turn-over rate for employees, but because our management understands work-life balance & we have a reasonable weekend shift rotation in place, burn out is low & everyone seems to hyped to be here.

really like your takes and honesty about the industry man. I'm planning on graduating in the spring with a finance degree and your info and knowledge and experiences you share help younger people getting into the industry like myself have a better understanding of the finance industry and being an investment banker. we appreciate u man! Happy friday, hope you can enjoy this weekend without worrying about some bs from a vp lol fr tho

Whatever you have said applies to all industries. There are so many instances of people asking why things are done this way and the response is “because it has always been done this way” If that’s the response then most probably whatever that needs to be done is not that important.

Great video loved it!

I honestly wonder if bankers make busy work to justify head count and billable hours or w/e. Whole thing seems a bit ridiculous

I spent first 6 years of my career in front office of the treasury services business in banking. I went to b school part time and ended up doing IB interviews to try to move over. During those interview process, someone very close to me was diagnosed with cancer during this time. Luckily that person made it through and is OK but when I found that out I realized that if I was in IB I wouldn’t have been able to help and spend time with this person. I decided not to go into IB. I am now a Director level and I am happy with my career and making decent money. Not IB money but def very good money and I have a nice work like balance….

That's why the tech industry is so great! We really try to be effective vs lubing up ego's

Great points 👍🏻

I work in data center engineering and this sounds like my exact experience. Navigating the job as a subordinate and identifying all of the tasks that are inefficient and working tireless towards a project only to find out it didn’t really matter to them that much

Being in corporate world I feel related to your story in many ways. I just want to let you know u r not alone. Some people r afraid to talk about it. U r brave. Good luck

bro your complaints apply to EVERY CORPORATION. every company has "it's" way. every company has endless stakeholders and middle level managers. every company has "yes" men/women. aka the company man. every company has unreasonable and picky clients. every company ignores the input of younger employees. I learned early in in my career that the sooner you try to stop to change/fix/question things, the easier your life becomes and at the end of the day that's all that counts. Half the shit my moron managers had me do over the years for sales pitches never went anywhere. It was always a test to see if you're a team guy or not. They want you to read between the lines. Mind games, always. One time even I had a scumbag sales manager ask me to put together a sales letter as sort of a model/template for our team to use. He never said when he needed it by. That night we had our company Xmas party at a fancy hotel in NYC. At the party he asks me if it's ready for the morning and I said Fk no you didn't give me a deadline. The mofo sent me back to the office to finish it and I missed the entire party like a dork. Pure scum. I left the company a few mo's later. That was in 1998. If and when I see him again, if ever, he's gonna go to the hospital.

Thank you for sharing Bryan :)

I worked in Investment Banking for a couple.of years,I really hated it and the worst part was preparing all of these power point presentations

Clicked on this video because of how relatable your thumbnail's "why I cried in the office lol" was, and then proceeded to subscribe because of your YT banner 😂 (former lawyer here haha). But in all seriousness, appreciated your reflective approach and that you attributed various issues to human nature (avoiding risk, routine, etc.). I felt like there were a lot of similar issues in the legal industry because of the same thing, and think it's a really helpful point to make for anyone watching who is considering going into professional services! - Em

This is pretty accurate. Everything in banking is urgent. 🙄 Definitely one of the most inefficient industries I've ever worked in.

Personally as a freshman wanting to pursue IB, I appreciate your honesty. Talking to older people in the industry they try to glamorize the job.

You’ve got a great radio voice

I’m really deep in the post college IB disillusionment phase and this video validated how i feel lol. I don’t know what i want to do with my life anymore but it’s not this.

thank you so so so so much for this video !!

Great video

Videos on youtube are always more interesting when they are transparent ☺️💪💪

Yeah banking isn’t the industry for creativity and I don’t see it will ever be… it’s all about making connections and building relationships with your boss and college… if the money doesn’t justify it for you, then don’t go for it… it’d be painful…

Hey thanks for the video. Really puts into perspective the whole glamor of IB. But do you think this could be limited to certain organisation and their corporate culture or the industry as a whole?

The CEO of JP Morgan, Jamie Dimon, epxerienced something like this back in his consulting days. His quitted as he felt that these unnecessary and unproductive over hours are simply bullying. He then entered Havard Business School, found a nice mentor who captapulted his career.

Thanks for sharing!

Thank you for this video. Everyone likes the show the glamorous side of jobs like investment banking but no one really shows the less desirable aspects of the roles. Do you think it would be like this at most IB firms or just the one you were at?

I've been an IB for 21 years at Wall Street and Asian banks. When we recruit it's a lengthy process. Popular opinion is that it's too long. I am not in HR, but I am usually the last to interview a candidate and that could be their 15th or 20th interview. When I evaluate a potential future staff member I look for character traits and attitude. What we do is hard. To be good at investment banking you need to be excellent all of the time.

Really like your videos.

great video!

Great job

To me sounds like the big IBs have become lax in a very strong business. Prime candidate for disruption…very interested now to see how fintech transforms this industry

Great video and great points… I did not work in IBD but I did come from one of the big4 firms and it’s very similar, but actually worse, lower pay and similar hours as IBD and the work wasn’t very fulfilling.

U speak my soul, I feel like if u r a creative person it's hard to fit into finance , or any industry, better do a start up and change this world

Thanks!

Can an auditing and management major work on investment banking?

great video

The high pressure, unreasonable and arbitrary deadlines and demands, the long hours, etc, all these things may look and feel pointless, but they are part of the process to test one's commitment to the job and ability to work under pressure. It's kinda similar to being in the Army. Lots of "hurry up and wait", doing seemingly pointless things, nobody in charge explaining anything, etc.

I appreciate the video. I’m a junior in undergrad, and I really like concepts of finance, especially m&a and creating/forecasting values, but it just seems like the culture of a lot of finance firms is just… uhhh 😂 not ideal. I think it’s valuable to show the real thoughts people have about investment banking. It helps me better understand where I want to work. What are your thoughts on corporate finance in the tech space? Idk, just curious.

I did 2 years and was hell. Was tough doing more than a year

Bryan you are smart and a critical thinker. Probably the type of person who should be higher up in that field than where you started. Unfortunately these companies have ingrained a type of culture where blind loyalty is more important than actually using common sense or critical thinking. At the end of the day….go someplace where you feel a sense of autonomy and can feel fulfilled and satisfied in what you want to do.

I think most of the time, we just dislike the upper ups and not the job itself

I feel your suffering. People are ridiculous for doing that and should get a life. I think they did that because they went thru it before and decided they want others to go thru the same

There should be work/life balance in order to live a joyful life. It's not worth killing yourself working nights and weekends. There is more to life than just work

ultimately, i guess an individual's IB experience all boils down to the team's culture...

Niceeee you work at a start up now? What's your position?

Hey, could you be more specific with what position you were in. For example, analyst or associate? Also, what industry were you working. Industrials? Entertainment? Energy? Thanks.

I work in big law and this sort of thing happens all the time there too

If you still are into the high-powered career vibe, you should try out consulting. I thought my job sucked, but hearing this it sounds 100X better. The partners are friendly, we don't work weekends and you are allowed to push back. Everything you do gets used!

Read the book "Discussion Materials". Fantastic look into Investment Banking as a Junior Banker.

I’m sorry. Learn from it and become better in your own way. There are probably so many more pressures in that line of work. I used to be that way too. Now, I do it for myself and try (try) not to let over head pressure get the best of me. Will you ever escape this pressure? No. But you can look for ways to lessen it. Like taking a less critical/high pressure job. Working hourly, NOT salary.

Now I’m seconding guessing this field because these things would frustrate me on another level.

Investment banking is basically the IT of the finance world: overglorified and not as flashy as it's made out to be.

How can calendar invites not be done perfectly?

What about the argument that by getting you to do all that useless stuff, they are giving you a ton of practice in case it ever is needed? Like karate kit with wax on wax off?

Bryan, a big part of what you experienced is simply a generational thing. Your generation is taught to question everything, which isn't a bad thing at all. Unfortunately, the people you were working for couldn't care less about your ideas on efficiency. Moreover, 1st year sell-side associates always get shit on, and are assigned the most ungrateful, laborious, painstaking tasks. It's no different for new associates at law firms, they get the same treatment. It sucks, but it's only short-term; they are simply treating you the way that they were treated when they broke into the biz.

I was a mca broker I couldn't get out fast enough The hours and monotony got to me

I got shat on hard to n 2007-2008 in investment banking. Can’t be bothered to tell the story now.

The money and time that is being lost due to the inefficiency, even in high performing industries like investment banking is absurd. It really is a sign of weakness that the vps and mds seem to find no other way to deal with constructive ideas than to decline them. Jesus, I wanna do things differently and actually, I feel like things are going to change, it just takes a certain number of people from new generations to become part of it

If you don't like being told to change to and from Oxford commas, imagine working in a publishing house where you'd be paid about 1/5 to do the same haha

Do you think if you would've entered IB at the age of say 24-25 would you have learned to handle it better and maybe stayed for a few years? Its quite a lot for someone who's straight outta college.

Is this IB as a whole or just a poorly ran firm? Im wondering if the sample size is too small to reflect the entire IB industry. Are these MDs you are talking about at majority of banks?

Your tears is over 👍🏿 you doing well now

6:00 mark - artificial deadlines suck. it's good to move away from those people

It essentially rigorous training, some of which makes no sense, but it's designed to create mental toughness, the ability to work under ungodly amounts of pressure and following orders. Can it be considered arcane and even cruel....perhaps....but that is IB's method of training. Not for everyone.

I agree. Plus everything else about it

I think this can apply to any corporate job tbh. One of the products we offer is being spun off into its own business which I will be supporting to an extent. This new business recently hired a director of finance and I set up an intro call with her just to do a meet and greet. 2 minutes into the call, she’s already giving me work to do. Mind you she’s not even my manager lol. Me being new I tell her I have no idea how to do this, but I’ll figure it out. I get a message about 5 minutes after the meeting and she’s like don’t bother with it. I reached out to my manager to ask him to help me with it and he says don’t even bother because that not something we own and not something that falls under your responsibilities. The most important thing he said was, don’t just take work from everyone because then it’ll stick with you.

100% accurate.. I thought I was the only one thinking like this.

honestly I remember I first saw this video and I thought you were weak and needed to suck it up. I’m an Analyst 3 at a well known IB and honestly I’m so fucking over this industry. The money is not worth the berating and the emotional abuse and there are better ways to make money. What you said about hierarchy and not talking back really hits home - I was literally told that it was a dictatorship and that I needed to shut up. It’s honestly horrible lol and I would never recommend to anyone unless you really want the experience or you have nerves of steel that can take constant and endless berating over the smallest of mistakes; being blamed for mistakes of associate and senior bankers because you didn’t double check (????); the expectation to dedicate your entire life to the job and if you don’t, you get criticized for expecting work life balance as a junior banker… to any young and aspirational men and women considering IB as a career, if you’re smart enough to get into prestigious investment bank, you’re probably smart enough to get a job anywhere. I literally get therapy now because of this job. Value your mental health lol

Your video is bang on the money. Just because they are in a higher position to you, does not mean they are ALWAYS right. And secondly, if they don't want someone who is a free thinker and challenges them, then why don't they just recruit an 18 yr old straight out of high school who will act like a robot and never question anything and show initiative and cost 20% of the salary your making.

I appreciate the realism.

what would of your career path been in retrospect?

Would you say going into IB was worth it?