Why I Left Amazon 

Just last night I made the final decision to quit working for Amazon, never to return. Its not worth it.

Because of the vesting schedule, the four year cliff at Amazon is particularly brutal, but the truth is that at almost every company, you are going to be worth more on the free market than internally after about 2 years. Maybe it shouldn't be this way, but it's a near-universal truism.

As a current employee at Amazon I can attest to everything he is saying. Even though I an a tier 1 AA I have been given responsibilities on the ship dock in leadership positions that some days they put you through hell. Imagine for a second that you are being pulled 16 different ways all at once. They thin down the staff to the point that one person might be responsible for 3 other positions.

Why does no one else record videos like you. You get straight to the point its awesome

I love the breakdown on why you left Amazon and why it makes sense in the long run. I think more people should stop and think if staying or leaving brings more value. It definitely helps to hear if from someone in a great position still deciding to move on to grow. Keep bringing that great content!

Question: At work I mostly hear things such as: “Team”, “Alignment”, “Inspiration”, “Drive the change” At any one-on-one conversations I mostly hear “Money”, “Bonus”, “Stock”, “Cash”. Is it because of our own hypocrisy or companies’ management?

Personally, I found after getting promoted the 4 year cliff vanished and my workload has remained relatively constant (gradually increasing with my skillset).

This idea of constantly changing and moving on is great and sounds fitting in some of these tech jobs but not necessary stable for the general working family. Someone with a few kids likely wants something that can cover their family for a while versus having to constantly switch things up every 4 years. And it's also easier when you're still younger; obviously that's what companies like Amazon are betting on.

Damn, I wish I found this video sooner. Just hit the 4year cliff and took on a management role that landed me with lateral pay, heightened responsibility and a much longer workday😓

Wow, this one definitely had me glued to the screen! Super insightful man!

Thanks for your sharing, I'm going to reject the 3rd round of interview because of this. I already get an offer with good salary and RSU (25%-25%-25%-25%) and feel there're a lot of risk on Amazon's offer even it's possibly a little more than my current offer in total. Amazon RSU rule (5%-15%-40%-40%) is so stupid and I could foresee it will handcuff my valuable 4 years.

“From any number of employer… I can get a massive raise and get new stock and get a bonus.” At eye-watering numbers like $300k TC, I think this is only true in Big Tech and “unicorn” tech companies. Very attainable for an experienced Amazon PM, but the wording makes it sound like this level of compensation can be found anywhere.

I have recently been offered a promotion at my company to a management position. The new role required to relocate to a new state. Salary increase, however, was 10% only. 10% to move your family’s lives and do 3X the amount of work. It’s often better to change a company than to be promoted at your existing place. Doesn’t make sense but that’s the reality.

They need more robots at amazon.. this is where I do see useful application for them.. I believe this is what Amazon Needs... to ease the workload and increase ethical practises/conditions over there... and more respect for the employees... its CRITICAL/ABSOLUTELY IMPORTANT...

I'm looking at Amazon right now (hence why I'm here). Thinking about it, I think I'm fine with the "4 years of making bank" followed by a change of scenery (if that's what it comes to). I have almost 10 years of experience now at a few different companies. Which means I'm already only spending 2-4 years at any one place before I move on to bigger and better opportunities. I guess it would be nice to be able to settle in somewhere throughout my 30's / 40's, but it makes total sense that these big tech companies want a constant stream of fresh faces with new ideas flowing through the revolving doors. I suppose it also protects them from dolling out massive salaries to people, only for them to ultimately "get comfortable" and no longer be that 'bright eyed new guy' bending over backwards for them. They'd rather have those guys get an automatic "pay cut" after 4 years and move on. I guess we'll all just play the game :)

I love this concept of "pressure testing" the job market with your abilities/skills! I'm gonna start using that concept of pressure testing more in everything. I've always seen it as the more I explore and look for experiences/knowledge the more I learn but the pressure test concept is so much more concise and to the point.

At Google, the stock grant too vests over 4 years, but it vests evenly: 25% each year.

Thank you for being honest, That is very true I thought it's just me but I have many friends working there as well and they all not happy.

I have been at amzn since July 2017. The cliff happens bc you should be moving up, promo, by then. If not, you're not doing it right, aka not increasing your value, skills and therefore they want you out. If you are getting promo'd then the stock and base increase.

This was really interesting! I'm thinking a lot about toxic corporate culture in general and struggling with accepting the boxes that we get put in as employees. Maybe that's not the exact issue you faced at Amazon but I think in general, it's all about these corporate systems that, a lot of times, are actually designed to work against us. Thanks for sharing you experience :)

Please do a video on what type of companies will pay ex-Amazon employees more than Amazon? Which cities? Thank you.

This is incredibly insightful- I’d love to be in a similar position one day as I start my PM journey!!

I’m currently an L3 IT associate at Amazon so I am not eligible for stocks and from what I hear getting promoted internally is not really worth it. I only been here 6 months but I guess we will see what happens.

I think not only amazon , japan company mitsubishi also do that, with there was no share, no bonus, no wage increase and when you hit 4 year their toss everyone job at you cause everyone was already leaving and only me left. I decide too quit, Nov 21 was be my last time there before i reach total burnout.

I was T1 for 6.5 years, but they dropped all stocks & bonus pay - become not worth it for the bodily damage.

Shockingly honest. Thank you for this! Have you retired?

Hey thank you for this insight.

I used to work for a logistics company, the operations manager earned about 25 percent more than myself. But I worked 37 hours a week, he worked 55 hours a week, especially considering he was on call 24/7 basically. I was offered a similar job to his at the same company. But hour for hour, I already earned more than he did. Without any of his stress. They thought I was unambitious. I was just realistic

Hey John, love your content!

They stop paying you well? How do they stop paying you well when you’re already paid well and even level up also has in increase of your already high salary. Sorry if I don’t get if. I’m a plebeian.

Even people that don't work for Amazon were telling me that they get all your good ideas and then fire you after just one year, so you are not vested with the company and then they don't have to pay you.

Great video John. All the very best for your new role.

I left Amazon because of the hearing loss. Not from the machines, but from the music they blasted over the speakers. My place was oddly hell-bent on keeping the amp at an “outdoor med. size festival concert” volume, regardless of my complaints. Trivial, I guess but they lost a valuable and hard worker, and I’m much happier at my new job.

Great video! Thank you for this!

Amazon screws the internal promotions

Helpful information 👍. Thank you 🤝

Now amazon hit a level of profit ceiling, I doubt it would have the same growth as before. Therefore you should assess the market each year

How many hours a week were you working?

so what happens after 4 year cliff, if base was 150 and you get 40 shares in 4th year, what about 5th year?

Great video!

I just sign a contract on ORM On Road Management I used to work in a workshop/ warehouse so this is big deal for me

Maybe im not understanding correctly, but your entry job paid $150k/year?

What did you do after Amazon? If you got another corporate job, did you land an offer before quitting? Your decision makes complete sense to me.

John, I’ve been following your channel and path. I muffed my Amazon interview for Sr PMT, after listening to you, I’m not interested in reapplying. Also, I have interviews with AmEx Digital Labs coming up, what should I be aware of going into AmEx, if things go in my favor? Your thoughts are greatly appreciated!

Super insightful!

Good for You batyushka John!!!

It's the dirtiest place I've ever worked at. Honestly look further if you're thinking of signing that contract

Thanks for sharing

Amazon cliff is PIP

What did you do for Amazon

The dislike is from the boss 😂

Did you well good for you. There is nothing wrong with amazon i been here 2 years now!!

what's annual increase with the base, 10%?

What title did you hold at Amazon?

Did you ever think to work for your government in the IT division?

This Amazon company review sounds exactly like the whole nursing culture and profession. No wonder why nurses are leaving hospitals for travel nursing and people leave Amazon 😅

Wow!! I would love for you to be my mentor!!

Thanks John, great video as always. I am of the opinion that they keep giving the stock every year or atleast after you vested all of them they offered at the joining. Am i wrong?

Does this apply to Amazon jobs worldwide UK to be precise or just the US? Also does the employee need to buy the stocks by themselves or automatically enrolled on the Amazon stocks market ?

I subscribed so fast I didnt even notice

The most honest story I heard about why someone left amazon.

All i hear is amazon is really bad for the most part. I don't think i could keep up anyways. I'll find something else i have worked in a warehouse before but it was a total joke i wasn't trained nor do i have a license to use heavy machines(I almost cut my finger off went pretty deep a tape gun went right through my finger. I mean if I'm going to get fired in two weeks i might as well find another job. The hours or days i can deal with but seems like to much pressure I'm not as young as i used to be. I herd a few people in my area talking about the local amazon around and they quit treated like a slave pick rates etc. I'm sure there are good amazon warehouses but 95% of the time i hear are usually bad.

I got an offer from aws honeycode. Can you give me an insight of pressure of work for an l4 level?

What did you do at Amazon to make that kind of money?

Sounds like he couldnt cut it basically. L7+ gets paid millions.

Yes, my girlfriend is level 4 and she’s ending up taking a pay cut cuzz of lack of stocks

Oh I don't think this video is for me..... def not going to be making $150,000/yr lol....damn.... what the hell you doing for 200-500 grand a year at Amazon?? How do people even get these jobs? They purposely do this so they never have to pay retirement to people. I subscribed :) I'll let you know when I hit the 4 day cliff as a warehouse worker >_< I start soon... Luckily at a delivery center and not a FC

greater responsibility = higher money ? is the right ?

Awesome insights! Thanks! Now I understand why they reached out to me with the opportunity. I look like the next talent to recycle... 😂

Another important thing you didn't mention: 15% stock growth rule. At year 3, amazn will give you new stocks for year 5 and 6, say 100K for each year. Instead of giving you 100K worth of stocks, amzn actually gives you: 100K/1.15 = 86.95K worth of stocks for year 5 and 100K/1.15 /1.15= 75.6K for year 6. So, what happens if stock price increase more than 15%? you should be thankful since you make more than 100K at year 5 or 6. did management ask you to be grateful (e.g you are making more than we want to give you). Yes; did hard work pay off? Absolutely No.

I have a question about the "pressure testing" the job market with your skills. Can't it become an issue with doing that regularly? I feel like it can be a danger because it's not like it's a ton of companies which you would really want to work for. I'm worried that that the good companies is like 10% of the market. If you apply just for testing the waters, aren't you worried after a while (a year or two) you won't have much companies left?

How much more money an internal promo from a L5 to a L6 get

Genuinely curious. Looking for career change

sir how get job in amazon

its an investment on your youth and fresh minds. After 2years u are burnout that's the understanding, manpower ROI.

Hi, I am getting lots of feedback about aws pip process and firing and all.. Mostly being reviewed by sde s.. I recently got selected as a TAM , so now wondering shall I accept the offer or not.. It's for aws india... Is this culture same for l5 tam roles too? Any guidance.. I don't see people talking about other roles than sde.. Much appreciated.. Thanks

As an AA or AM no.

I'm captivated by every word. I read a book with similar content, and I was completely captivated. "Mastering AWS: A Software Engineers Guide" by Nathan Vale

$300, 000 vs $ 25, 000 for a regular worker at Amazon is pure Evil. Hope they pay; heartbreaking.

Dude I like your perspective but are you complaining about over $150,000 base salary? Then you say $300,000 is absolute bottom 🤣🤣🤣😂🤣😂 bro come on that’s doctor pay man. Humble yourself good sir.

I am a water spider at Amazon. I totally understand where you are coming from.🤔

They took the shares back

amazon is charging its prime customer illegal's restocking fees time to break the monopoly

Harsh reality for a learning ambassador 😂

Hey Amazon, how about pay your employees a decent wage instead of printing new stock and giving it to them which costs the company 0

💯 he is telling the truth 😁

Super helpful!!! Where are you headed

Why I Left Amazon: Money

Honey, you didn't work in the trenches of Amazon, you were in AWS which is TOTALLY different than working in the warehouse

I'm enchanted by this content. I had the pleasure of reading something similar, and I was completely enchanted. "Mastering AWS: A Software Engineers Guide" by Nathan Vale

Amazon does not want any worker lasting more than 3 years

thanks bad Amazon is a bad company

Many things are wrong in this video. I can understand it’s not for you, but you should not misguide others.

They want you to leave. Amazon knows the market value of your skills.

I can't imagine someone being unhappy with making $310,000 a year plus stock and bonuses. omg lol

They look at workers like animals.

Someone needs to hold Seth Godin accountable for supporting Bezos.

I hit the cliff in just 2 years 😢😂😢😅😢😂

I find it incredible how far the first world and third world is apart. My father's generation was the last generation that had permanent employment and they never saw anything close to the money you speak of. But now consider that they are highly educated and their work was extremely technical. I wouldn't be surprised if Amazon start using highly educated third world work force because they can pay them a fraction of what they pay just 1 single employee. My mind is blown really... And the sad part is you complain about your income... I guess even if you are paid in the millions of dollars it would still be considered low income? Because it seems that is the case here. Have you ever asked yourself when is enough enough?

Which company did you join ?? if you have started something of you're own I would love to work for you for free. P.S Ex-Amazonian