Thank you so much for having me on to discuss my mission and my story of leaving the church! :) This was a great conversation and I have to say, I love all the interviews on your channel. I've been a fan for a long time so it's really cool to be on your channel 🫶🫶🫶
Thanks for coming on and sharing! And for deciding to be a voice for those needing answers to Mormon questions! Doin the lord’s work and doing it well! 😉🙏 #apostatesunite
I love having the missionaries come. We have ALWAYS welcomed them to make themselves at home (laundry, food, TV, unfiltered internet, conversation, games, phone calls, alone time, etc.) with the understanding from the first sentence that neither my children nor I will pray with them or discuss their "religion." Since Alyssa started her channel, I've had several (now former) missionaries leave the church and stay with us to get their feet on the ground. I feel horrible for missionaries paying to waste their lives in awful conditions all for a lie. Keep up your work and we'll try to do our small part too! The fact that 40% of missionaries are leaving the "church" within 6 months of return is incredibly encouraging to me.
40% seems rlly high, I would hope so but the majority of Mormon men go on missions, are rlly almost half of them leaving the church at 20? idk maybe I’m wrong but I doubt it
@@TariqNavabiGaming That is the most recent statistic cited based on a host of factors. I obviously have no way of dis/proving it, but I've definitely witnessed. an exodus like at no other time.
I didn't know those poor missionaries actually have quotas. Usually I just quiz those people on LDS history (especially if they happen to be non-white, I make sure they know about the racism in the church's past) - but now a part of me wonders if I should just offer to fake converting to get their numbers up if they give me $30 or something lol
I felt so bad for these two girls a couple yrs back that were on their mission in Rochester NY who happened upon my family as we were heading into a Bad Religion concert. I use mobility aids & was parked just outside the venue bc handicap parking, so I don’t think they were expecting us to be like “sorry, but we’re here to see Bad Religion. Good luck though. And stay safe.” They then kinda got caught up in the crowd of punks & freaks before the doors opened. I will say everyone was very respectful, but they just ended up out of their element and very bright red as they navigated through the crazy.
i'm so glad I was raised in secular family. I could experiment with my spirituality, lifestyle and making my own life decisions. For some (not very common) reasons I started attending Russian Orthodox church mass and after few years I left it. And I can not imagine how difficult it would be for someone who was raised in a very religious family (or even in a preacher's family)
From an outsiders perspective it apprars that missions are not to find converts but it is to solidify the child going into adulthood to become the best version of a strict Mormon to continue the lineages participation..the converts are just a bonus...
Random, but when I was in Gymnasiet (Swedish equivalence of high school, roughly) in about 2003 or 04 our teacher presented two young men dressed in white short sleeve shirts, short hair, seemed tired. I think it was social studies. They where from the U.S. and made it clear that they would let every student ask a question about life in the U.S., "but we will not answer any questions about politics" (I had prepared a question about the war in Iraq in my head). Can't remember what they talked about all these years later, but realize now that they where probably mormons on a mission?
Every time I’ve seen young men dressed like that, they’re LDS missionaries lol, so I would guess so. I can even spot the girls without the name tags, they do modesty differently than the evangelicals. More flounces, fewer denim maxis. I’m always surprised by how many missionaries we get where I live, which is 10-15% LDS but we have a temple. I mostly see them calling bingo at the hospital, it looks so boring but the more I learn, I imagine it’s dull but at least it’s safe and they’ve got a specific, non-religious job to do.
I saw them few months ago in my town! it's really rare to see mormon here(Seoul), and my town is small and mostly old people live here so I thought it was interesting😂 but I don't think they can success cuz younger people who can speak English well enough to have some conversation, won't fall for them. and old people who might have interest with Mormonism can't speak English😂
The talking about serving a mission in Italy reminded me that a few weeks ago I went on a daytrip to Como from Milan to see an exhibition, and on the train there was a group of Mormon missionaries. And I was unobtrusively looking at them and pondering about their mission, and also drinking from my water bottle, and the train hit a bump, I hit the rim of the bottle on a tooth, and splashed water all over my shirt. And I just did the Italian thing letting out an explosive and quite explicit curse to god and all the saints in hell. To which the poor missionaries reacted by becoming quite brightly red.
The whole reacilmating back into society as Alyssa basically puts it in returning from the mission honestly sounds like what alot of soliders have issues with upon returning from service once out.
Two groups of people believing that they’re fighting for the greater good only to come back from the “fight” to realize the only thing they’re bodies had been sent to do was indoctrinate and destroy peoples lives
100% had to have caffeine in college. Mostly tea and soda. Not so much coffee. The smell of coffee made me sick then. After having kids, I can't live without coffee.
Irene’s Entropy is doing an Instagram series are her mission experience in Honduras, which was horrifying. She’s another person I love following & would make a fantastic interview
For me, policing adults' clothing and micromanaging their behavior sounds extremely infantilizing. You can follow all the rules, if you believe those help, but enforcing them is another thing. It just leaves to loopholes and not getting caught, because now it's more important to look rightous, then to be one. It sounds utterly contraproductive, even in a religious sense.
l find it very ironic that if missionaries break even the tiniest rule, they will not be worthy to bring people to God, but when discussing all the failings of Joseph Smith, apologists say, "Yeah, but he was just a man. God had to use an imperfect man to bring the gospel to the Earth". You can't have it both ways.😒
I genuinely believe that the LDS Church, the organisation, should really start caring more for their missionaries. The measly monthly allowances don't even cover up for the missionaries' daily expenses and the wild pressure they face to "baptise converts" no matter what, even if, as Alyssa has mentioned, that means "not helping a couple get married at the Temple financially" or "help the poor get their next meal" is not only unhealthy, but also grossly dehumanising. And I haven't even touched upon the strict rules they are to comply with and the dangers they face during their mission in foreign countries... Thank you so much for having this talk!❤🤗
If you are willing, talk to missionaries and keep asking questions! The longer you talk to them, that's the longer they are not out converting some vulnerable person!
I think my Baptist college took notes on how BYU students got around the rules when making their rulebook... Ours tried to close as many loopholes as possible! 90% of students had to live on campus, with an enforced curfew. No visiting the dorm of the opposite sex. No sitting in parked cars. No physical affection of any kind. The list goes on and on!
Two of the most thoughtful, intelligent, and significant voices in this important space?? I'm IN! Thank you both for your courage and your advocacy. If my children grow to become kind and compassionate young adults like you two women, I'll be so grateful. ❤❤❤
The discourse around the illusion of choice and the question on spiritually manipulating people to get them baptised reasonated a lot with one of my experiences with mormonism. For context, I was baptised catholic due to social pressure on my parents, but neither our household nor my upbringing were ever religious. I rememeber that even as a kid, once I started going to catechism "socially" around 6, I resented being thrust into that whole shebang without having a say in it, or before I could even know what it was all about. Cue my mormon friend, whose parents once invited my mother and me to their church (and yes, they _obviously_ gifted us a copy of the Book of Mormon, too), and the one thing I remember from that experience was being in awe when someone told me that mormon kids get baptised later in life. And I _distinctly_ remember thinking that it was the coolest thing ever because it was presented to me as a _choice_ on the kids' behalf. So basically, one of the adults in that church clocked on one of my grievances with my then-current religion and spun a narrative in which mormonism would give me the thing I felt catholicism had failed me with. Ultimately it went nowhere, but damn, do they know how to try and sell it. On the subject of being indoctrinated into compliance even when something happens that makes one feel uncomfortable or bad, that's honestly horrible. I had issues with my local priest over my first communion because I had moved towns and wanted to do it with my former peers, and when he started being difficult over paperwork, I flat out told my mother, "That's it, I'm doing the communion but I'm not sticking around for confirmation", and she was fully supportive. And later on, when I switched to the local ortodox church and served as an altar boy, when the priest scolded me for wearing shorts in summer (which you couldn't even notice under the tunic), I was like "Yeah, f*ck it, I'm out of here". I can't even begin to imagine how horrible it must be not to have this kind of agency because of indoctrination or fear of social consequences.
Personally I am amazed when ex-mormons say they DON'T regret their mission because they learned a language or learned more about the world. They never seem to mention how they used, misled and objectified everyone they met. I really appreciate that Alyssa sees this.
I live in Alberta Canada and we get a lot of Mormon missionaries from Utah. There were two girls in my town standing with a little stand full of books, I crossed the road to walk past them because I actually wanted to talk to them and ask them questions. Like if how they separated deciphering a book with a rock and a hat, from divination. But they literally backed away and avoided me, wouldn't even make eye contact with me. Hahaha I'm guessing it must be my evil tattoos! Hahaha poor girls
Hi from North Battleford Sask. We always have two LDS missionaries arroud. The church rents a tiny town home by my friends. I feel so bad for them trying to convert people here. Fyi I am a Christian in a church that does give money and food to the needy of our little city.
Cults to Consciousness Yeah I tried to get into BYU for a Masters Degree Program and my GPA was good and I even did community service alot. I was rejected. I was crushed as what I was told what you needed to get into BYU, I felt I met as a Mormon. It was my dream school for graduate school as I was told they have the best program for your chosen field. I also felt like I had failed as a Mormon too in not getting into BYU. Now as an EXMO and listening to Alyssa years later about her experience, I feel like I basically dodge a bullet.
I heard other interviews say this church has $$ Billions. They could take care of homelessness & hunger every where in the U.S. that they have a church. That sounds like that would be a really good mission project, good use of their money & time & good PR too.
I have so much respect for both of you and want to thank you for what you do. I am a trauma therapist and tell my clients when they are exploring meaning around what they have been through, since you can't change what has happened, now you have choices regarding what you will do moving forward. Both of you have made remarkable choices to tell your stories and use your platforms to provide a space for others to do the same. You're making your little corner of the world better and brighter which is how the world begins to get better and brighter. This is how real change happens. Truly beautiful!!!
Thank you so much, Alyssa, for expressing how to treat Mormon Missionaries. We're all human and in need of kindness and love. I am not Mormon, but believe everybody counts, or nobody counts. I choose to treat all kinds of people well, but have enough discernment to keep myself safe.
I have been down the rabbit hole since Katie Holmes left Tom Cruise. From Tony Ortega to Leah Remini, to John Dehlin, to Lauren Matthias et al. to True Crime. Through the Daybell trial to my obsession with the Karen Read case, my husband has usually humored me at least for a few moments, but there is almost nothing he has been interested enough to actually watch or listen to with me. Then one day I heard a familiar voice emanating from his ipad. Lo and behold, it was Alyssa! I asked him what he was watching, and he said, “I’ve been watching this ex-Mormon, Alys…” “I KNOW who it is! I said. I just wondered why you were watching her.” He explained that you are funny and smart and your husband left with you and he just likes your videos! (And, fascinated, that “She really DOES look Mormon”)! So, high praise from myself and my husband, who is usually guffawing at old SNL skits or zoning out to some mechanic with a power sander! Great stuff! Btw I loved your latest on the Mormon Wives! Astute!
I'm from Peru, a few months before covid started I was in a catholic procession near my home, two mormon girls from de US passed by and ask me and my family what was going on and why their was so many people wearing purple, following an image (The lord of Miracles). They were my age and they seemed really fun an courious. A few days later they knock on my door I knew some things about what they were doing and about their religion like their history and what they believe in because of youtube and google, i also had one friend in school that was a mormon. So I decided to talk to them, in fact they were really kind and fun people. We schedule another meeting in a park, obviusly they try to change my faith, I already knew that is what they came to my country to do so it didn't bother me at all, and at the end we kind of talk about some random teenage girl stuff. I wish we could have been friends but they weren't allowed. When covid hit i wondered what happened to them and hope they returned home safely. Hopefuly we will meet again
A crossover that we love to see! Thanks for sharing your voice/story with us! Love you both and your mission to talk about these things and break the cycle! ❤
I grew up Assemblies of God and I identified with SO MANY things she's talked about. I actually use to watch documentaries about different cults and I'd be embarrassed, confused and ashamed that my upbringing in the assemblies of God was so similar to the cults I was watching in that documentary. Just crazy!
My best friend (during middle & high school +) & her family were members of a local Assembly Of God Church. I went to her church & “youth group” several times. I was raised Presbyterian, and I will never forget a young woman from Assembly Of God sitting me down and telling me that one is only “saved” if they speak in tongues. I was in disbelief and asked a lot of questions (for which she seemed to have answers). However, I must have talked to my parents or someone else I trusted about this matter & they reassured me that their belief was just that, and I shouldn’t let it affect me. I didn’t let it bother me much, but I will never forget how “cultish” that all seemed in hindsight.
Laughing at the comment of being at Walmart and someone approaching to evangelize you. I was at a Walmart self checkout with my toddler rushing to finish up because there was a long line of people waiting when this lady approached me to invite me to her church. It took all of my patience to not yell at her to leave me alone and be nice to her. She could clearly see I was trying to rush and listen to my chatty toddler while trying to be polite and listen to her, but she didn’t take the hints that it wasn’t the right time to do what she was trying to do.
I am from Latvia. When I was a student, one summer (2000 or 2001), my friend and I met Mormon Missionaries who came from US. That few years actually Latvia was full of them. We had Mormon friends in or home town and in a capital city, where we were going to university. They were so nice, all young men, presentably dressed, always smiling, always happy. Of course us two young women were happy to meet them every other day in a park 😆 then they told us their leaders organised a FREE English classes for locals, and of course we attended, who says NO to a free English lessons. First of all, there were no women amongst them only very good looking young men and few older leaders, so most of the local students were women 😅 first few lessons we didn't really understand anything, because they only were speaking english. Then we kind of realised many of words sounded a bit culty, because they made us repeat verses that sounded a lot like preyers 😅 our mormon friends explained us that they are actually bringing a true religion in our country... i left after 3 lessons. We still were friends with those young Missionaries. They were constantly visiting my friends home, her mum became their mum for the time they were in our home town. Luckily they understood that Mormonism is not a religion for Latvians, too alien. So they were just enjoying the warmth of my frien's mum home. The one thing they never accepted is food she cooked for them, they weren't allowed. They could bring food and coock themselves in her house, but never ever they eat her food. And it was a big mistake, she is a cook and makes amazing meals! I wonder if all of them are still mormons, they should be on their 40's now 😄
I’ve never had this thought before but when you think about a missionary having to find ppl to talk to everywhere they are, all the time & how prevalent MLMs are w/ Mormons/Utah one could see how easily you could go from one to the next because to most people that would be so awkward but in a way, it’s the same principle except ones for the Prophets & ones for products. You’re also paying THEM to do their marketing for free for both. I hope that makes sense. Ugh hearing these missionary stories is heartbreaking. I can’t imagine doing that, not being able to talk to my loved ones & for THAT long!!
I was thinking the same thing! So many similarities! - paying the church/company to work for them - being encouraged to be working anytime anywhere - shame and guilt when you don't meet the goals - being made to see any person you meet as a potential convert/recruit - the idea that the church/company can do no wrong - telling people that if they aren't seeing success it must be their fault for not being faithful/commited, hardworking enough, even when it's things completely out of their control - being told you're "helping people" when it's really just for the benefit of the church/company I'm sure there are more I'm not thinking of too!
Here in Europe, I personally tried to welcome missionaries to my home, to be kind and not to give any opinions (they could even talk about mormonism, I wouldn't mind), but they always looked so scared, uncomfortable and wanting to leave asap, so they never entered (which I understand, I would never enter a stranger's house, even an innocent looking girl like me :p). I empathize with them so much.
It's so funny to me to hear the BYU stories. A high school classmate (non-Momon from Colorado) went there on a swimming scholarship, and promptly got kicked out. 1972
In the early 80’s we had 2 young men missionaries who came to our home to witness. We’re in the south and Baptist and challenged their thinking and what they’d been taught. We invited them back every Sunday afternoon for lunch and they came. For a couple of months. They were young and naive.
I like your way of thinking about the waste of the Mormon mission. I’m from Guatemala and it irked me so much when ex Mormons say they are thankful for it. They got to learn a new language or something. But at least here, the people they are converting are so poor, un educated and vulnerable. If they don’t see how problematic it is because they learnt a new language then they still have some work to do on themselves.
My brother is law is 1 of 6 kids(2g 4b) and was raised mormon. All the boys left the church. All the kid where told that their parents would pay for school if they when to any of the byu schools. 2 boys joined the military, 1 trade school and the youngest stayed long enough to graduate from byu Rexburg. He almost didn't get his diploma because him and his fiance signed on an apartment together and only he had moved in before they got married but on paper it looked like they lived together before that! Not sure what they had to do to prove they didn't live together but thankfully get got it!
I have to add I am touched by your ability to recognize the fact that Mormon missions have real consequences for others in addition to the missionaries. So young, yet so wise!
I'm at the point in the video where Alyssa discusses coming home from her mission and feeling no sense of purpose because all of the rules and the way she had to live during her mission have been ripped out from under her. That also happens to military veterans who return to civilian life and feel void of a sense of purpose for their lives. EDIT: After posting my comment, I also realized that ex-convicts who have served their full sentence or have been paroled after many years of incarceration also feel this sense of not knowing how to make it through the day.
The cat reference 😂😂😂 my cousin started feeding the neighborhood strays when she was in high school. Shes now in her mid-40s and her parents are still stuck feeding the neighborhood cats. 😂
1:33 I was told the same working with evangelical missionaries. This was always one of those grains of sand grinding in my mind leading eventually to my deconversion.
Alyssa is a danger to the LDS church. Her eloquence is a threat. She has a gift of putting into words what many Mormons are experiencing and have no words for. But once you can identify what's bothering you, these things are losing their power over you. Alyssa, you are saving lives.
Fascinating interview. Thank you both. I lived once opposite two girls doing their Mormon mission. Living so close we often passed on the road. I felt very sorry for these young women who always looked unhappy and put upon. But talking to them was very hard for me as their conversation was totally directed. Now I understand that they were brain-washed and coerced to stay within the bounds all the time. I'm grateful that my neighbour was willing to sit down with them, listen and talk with them on their level.
I just had a realization… I think I might’ve had missionaries from America coming to my house for a chunk of time about 20 years ago. My brother was thinking about becoming Mormon so the church organized for two Elders to come to our house every week for a couple months to give us structured lessons about Mormonism (and my mum and I sat in on the teachings to be supportive of my brother). The Elders were two Americans that were traveling together to different places around Australia but I don’t remember if they said why (we probably just assumed they traveled to preach about the religion and that it must have just been a thing that American Mormons did🤔🤷🏻♀️😅). My mum and brother were invited to the church to see what a service was like and my mum didn’t know that she wasn’t meant to wear trousers🙈😬 She said everyone kept side eyeing her and staring at her and she felt so awkward and uncomfortable. We were Anglican at the time and went to a church that was super chill (I used to go there wearing mini skirts and spikey dog collars and the clergy didn’t care - SUPER chill😅) and mum said it didn’t even occur to her to not wear trousers. She felt a bit bad in case she offended people or made them think less of my brother (since it might potentially become his church). The Elders were reserved at our house when they visited and they never commented on our clothes, but when the last lesson was due to come around I asked mum if I could stay in my room and not be there for it because it was about modesty, and I also didn’t want to be asked if I want to join (since it was the final lesson with the Elders), so mum said she’d tell them I was at a sleepover lol. My brother didn’t end up joining - he’s still Anglican and my mum and I are Witches now (my brother cut off communication with mum because of it, and I don’t think he knows about me, or if he does, he’s never said anything directly). Do Elders do missions or traveling type of duties?🤔 I’m wondering now after that random encounter back when I was in highschool… 🤗🫶
That’s nothing. At Pensacola Christian College in Pensacola, Florida; boys and girls can’t even stand next to each other or talk; and they each have their own parking lot, stairwells, and elevators.
There’s a prominent LDS family locally who has become involved with the nonprofit I work for. It feels like they are slowly deconstructing, but in a place that isn’t obvious. It’s been incredible to see their daughter, now a young adult, find her own voice and seems to be postponing marriage with her beloved boyfriend simply so they can grow as people. Tbh, we never would have realized, but I knew her grandpa & know the upbringing. I’m pretty sure her parents intentionally brought her to us to benefit from feminism & liberal politics without having to go directly against the church. We get a lot of devout kids whose parents seem to know they’ll have their horizons broadened gently but firmly. Esp if I think a 9th grader is a college freshman, thank god I was too vague lol!
As a Christian who is debating his faith, thank you for an honest, open and heart-warming discussion on the the absolute absurdity of the Mormon Church
Alyssa said "you are basically taught that if you aren't obedient you are stealing salvation..." and then it immediately cut to a KFC ad then went "I DON'T CARE! I LOVE IT!!!". Honestly it was one of the best moments I have seen in a video.... ever
I was raised in the Mormon faith. My parents went to church with me nearly every Sunday until I was close to the age of 5. After this age they rarely took me to church. When I was 14 my parents made me go to seminary. I also started reading the scriptures daily. When I was 15 I went to seminary and to church every Sunday. Church really benefited me and helped me be a better more loving person. I met my husband at institute, close to the age of 24 and we were married in the temple when I turned 25. Those people Alyssa baptized might have benefited from the church even though she can't see that now. Close to the age of 30 I read Meditation for Dummies by Stephan Bodian and picked up a mantra meditation practice that benefited me 10x more than the Mormon church ever did. Close to the age of 40 I quit going to church as it didn't teach true meditation and taught that feelings are evil and I just couldn't deal with the lying in the church anymore. I didn't learn about the CES letter until a few months ago when I was 53. I just figured the sealed part of the Book of Mormon would teach meditation and that feelings were not evil. Now it sounds like one big hoax, but even if it was a hoax, somehow it ended up benefiting me from the ages of 14 to 30. I am glad to know it was a hoax after I discovered mantra meditation. I don't know what I would have done had I discovered the Book of Mormon was a hoax before having mantra meditation to help me with my daily life.
i’m an atheist teenager but alyssa’s content and other content about cults in general absolutely fascinates me. my dad is also atheist but has absolutely no care in hearing anything of religion, i don’t really understand that. thanks for the video guys 👍
If the credits don't transfer and so many of the credits are religious credits, how valid is that education? Can students find real work outside the religion with their education? Are they truly qualified if everything they're learning is religion based?
I've never ever thought about the timing of the endowment but a light bulb just clicked in my brain. I grew up Mormon and I even asked my bishop and near begged to get my endowments before getting a mission call or marriage proposal. I was 18 and leaving the country for a bit, just felt like the right thing to do but I was FIERCLY discouraged....kinda odd coincidence 😅🤦🏼♀️
That was amazing! Thank you so much Shelise for introducing me to Alyssa!!! Watching you and her on her channel now lol and it’s so informative and I’m learning NEW things about you lol! As always I love you bunches ❤
I'm a Portuguese women, raised Catholic but now I dont follow any church or religion. My surname is Brigham 😅, and I just recently realised Brigham Young was such a big mormon figure. Had no ideia 🤣 Also I follow you both individually and I'm so happy you're collabing!
I grew up devout Calvinist(now agnostic) in South Africa. My only exposure to the LDS church was a few of the videos they show kids once in a cults & sects presentation, on a church camp, to basically show us "Look how ridiculous these people are". I have NO idea why RU-vid recommended Shelise and Alyssa at different times to me in the past year. But, I immediately started following both. They're the only ex Mormons I know, so I'm sooooo excited to see this collab!
😢 being sent to boring Denver Colorado seems almost as bad as being sent to where I live. I live in a tiny city in Saskatchewan 🇨🇦. That has an extremely small LDS church. They recently built a very tiny new church. Only two LDS missionaries at a time. Living alone in low income town house (next to our friends). Our population is mostly First Nations people; Christians (including me); and a few Muslims. A very very very hard place to be an LDS missionary; I actually feel bad for them.
Seeing you two together made me so happy. You both have been so helpful for my own deconstruction of Mormon trauma. Love you both and please keep sharing your stories ❤
Funny enough I had basically the inverse experience about where my mission call was. I thought I was going stateside, ended up in Taiwan. I regret my mission for almost exactly the same reasons, I'm glad to know that most of the people I impacted walked away relatively quickly
Long time viewer here. I got a new job where I'm working with an ex young earth creationists lady. And as we were talking I asked who did your reprogramming, and she said you did and it blew my mind. Great work here on your platform! Seeing your effect in the real world
My daughter made the mistake of opening the door for missionaries. She was very polite and she said she was not interested but let them take. the finally stopped coming when we sold our house lol. We politely told them every time we were not interested but that didn't stop them.
