Don't know why people act like its some political issue lmao. Not gonna lie I loved Vscode and switched to neovim. After a year I have basically configured neovim to be the same as vscode. Only reason I stick to neovim is I have full control over the editor experience and learn something new everyday about unix commands and automating my development.
I love spacemacs and neovim, but neither editors make me a much better programmer. I enjoy using them but people act like it’s important. I used to write code in notepad and it was a jolly good experience. Most people who wine about writer choices should be focused on their skill instead.
"I switched from VSCode to neovim...After a year I have basically configured neovim same as VSCode." Spending a year to get your old editor back is the wisdom I'm looking for.
@@dublindynamicdrive As someone that spent 2 years configuring Emacs i can firmly say....i wasted 2 years of my life, at the end of the day it's an editor and the 1GB of ram is not worth the time invested. Productivity can be achieved with all 3 editor, if one is to learn them
@@JimCarrey2005 It looks like haven't worked on large project yet. and still learning. That is why you are saying that people should focus on their skills instead. Good IDE or Text Editor can make you much more productive as dev. So you should also give some time to find IDE which works best for you. It is a long term investment
@@RenderingUserI have a laptop with 4gb of ram and the development was slower to almost painful but I could keep Google chrome open and vs code. If my laptop had an SSD and better CPU I wouldn't even notice that much of slowing down
@@bryanenglish7841 i also think fun plays a huge factor. For me, its personally fun to be able to customize my editor however i want it. To be able to know how things work underneath the hood makes you appreciate it even more.
Neovim requires a lot more investment to stand up, just like a package manager on say MacOs or Windows. But I would say it's irrefutable that package managers, virtual environments make your FileSystem 1000% cleaner. My computer still feels virgin clean, I don't have packages I don't need anymore, can delete envs, manage Keychain, manage my versions. If anything I would go the next level and learn Starnix so my environment is cross deployable.
I love watching people's workflow videos, because everyones always got something you can pick up and incorporate into yours. LSP support and many plugins would've never happened in nvim if not for VSCode but I definitely have my critiques. VSCode's vim plugin just doesn't hit the same... Input lag galore and less room to configure, it wont cut it. Especially when you're already used to vim. At this point I live in the terminal, with kitty's tab feature, git cli, nvim & hot reload tech on my browser on the 2nd monitor, why add a 3rd window/workspace to my workflow? In saying all this, I don't understand why people editor shame, vim is such a steep learning curve, when you could be spending your time learning a new framework or perfecting your skills on another one... Let people do what they wanna do
Mine got 8gb ram and if I do jump to declaration in vscode (jumping to the file where this is declared), my pc would die. Yours got extra powers I think.
My prev computer had 4gb RAM. And Dual Core. 2nd gen intel. I probably have removed any active bloatware, so it would only crash sometimes and was slow, but not that much, since it was a desktop.
The pause when saying “twenty twenty… two standards” is so relatable, feels like the years go by so quickly and I have to keep reminding myself it isn’t 2020 anymore.
with Vim, everything is done with keyboard shortcuts - even resizing windows. I don't know if that's the case with VScode with the Vim plugin, or if it just gives you a few standard Vim shortcuts
The only, ONLY reason to ever switch to vim from vscode if you didn't come from vim, is because on large projects, like massive projects, monorepo, vscode become slow, not unusable, but noticibly slow. And that's the only real reason to switch to vim.
Great keybindings, tons of customizability, runs fast, puts all your tools in your terminal instead of trying to shove a terminal into your text editor - plenty of reasons to switch for those who are interested.
@@atxorsatti that’s why I named other things besides keybindings too. Plus I’ve used plenty of emulations and none are fully featured, because plenty of well known vim functionality comes from popular plugins (vim-surround, for example)
I don’t agree, I have had such headaches getting fully fledged IDEs working as I want. Something I appreciate with neovim distros is that they are usually build with the intention to use without needing a mouse.
For basic stuff, vscode is fantastic. However neovim takes you closer to the command line, where you usually solve those kind of unique complex problems that no vscode plugin can. And to be fair, that kind of power has a price, neovim isn't easy and nice as vscode for sure. And it breaks sometimes.
I wonder if that's only true for bigger projects? I only code as a hobby and have 3 instances sometimes in a 8gb ram laptop and it runs no problem. Is it because my projects are smaller?
I have like 20 VSCode windows open. And my laptop really doesn't like that. Plus many other reasons. That's why I'm preparing to switch to Neovim. Glad that VSCode works for you, for me it simply doesn't
45% resource usage on your machine. ~ 6 gigs. On my machine, that's 75% ram. I tested with my machine earlier today and found 2 instances of VSCodium + my (admittedly bloated) gnome desktop took about 4 gigs, and an instance of firefox and chrome took up another 2.5 gigs. Starts getting a little rickety when youve only got a gig of ram to spare. Im going to try switching to neovim and see my life turns around 😂
With my 8gb RAM laptop I can't code on VSCode for too long otherwise code just closes to free RAM or my browser tabs start crashing OR even worse, my laptop starts freezing and sometimes I have to literally shut it down because it will just freeze. And most of the time I just code in TypeScript
If my laptop can comfortably handle it then why bother wasting my time learning an code editor when i can use that time for actual development instead?
Lol vscode is slow and shitty as it is an electron app compared or neovim or zed. How is it not slow vscode slows down often if too many tabs are open and search also gets slower. Sometimes sharing screen on google meet also slows it down lol.
vscode has an amazing remote usecase, you know how these loser vimmers always talk about the ubiquity of vi, well I never cared because I use emacs and I can use remote editing in it, having my own configuration working with the remote repo, while they have to settle for vanilla vi. well, VSCode kills emacs on this, the remote feature is amazing.
12 gigs of ram is not small at all. It can probably even run intellij. Vim is more for people who work with 4 gigs or lower. Also servers. Faster lite and smaller and I don't worry about my window manager breaking all the time which it does most of the time.
@@srivathsansudarsanan3372 Where do you even find a computer with less then 4 GB in 2023 !? Also as of writing this i have 6 tabs open, VS Code with the debugger on and the application running on total files in the current project are 3425. Not getting any bigger then that and my memory is at 4.5 GIB (I run Linux). Perhaps you should consider writing more efficient code, because the ram argument often comes from web developers, that truly stand by let me include this thing for left pad something something, 1 GB package.
Hey I respect your choice of text editor, and I really think people should stop gatekeeping text editors, I personally don't really like VSCode but that's just my personal taste, I'm not going around saying it's shit, as long as it works it's good :)
Yup exactly. There's been a few devs who trashed my use of VsCode and I just don't understand this weird strain of elitism in the SWE community. It's super toxic and dumb.
Elitism is as old as software engineering itself. In my experience, the people with the strongest opinions often have the least experience. I do love neovim though, it's fantastic.
@@nodidog I totally agree with that. I personally have a little problem with neovim in that it's not very straight forward to parameter. I spent over a week trying to understand how to basically parameter it, and use someone's template config, and I got it working now, but it hasn't been easy. I also waisted some of my working time over that too, and I haven't even been able to setup a debugger yet. I'm not a dev, just a PhD student, but the bulk of my work is still to code and produce results.
@@yanononopon there isn't really a way to avoid that initial difficulty either - you can use a pre-built config like LunarVim or AstroVim, but you still need to understand the inner workings as soon as you want to customise anything. It's a fairly steep difficulty curve for new users. Vim really starts to shine after months (and years) of continuous use, but I can totally see why it wouldn't work for everyone.
The biggest misconception about vim is, that it only is about predefined keyboard shortcuts. Vim really is about customizing your editor to a degree which vs code will never touch. Vim can be anything but vs code will always be a code editor. If you are fine using vs code do it but keep in mind, that vs code with the vim plugin isn't nearly as great and customizable as vim.
I am a 10+ year Vim vet and advocate, and have written plugins that my colleagues have used. That said, Emacs is way better than Vim ever was or Neovim ever will be in terms of customizability. The learning curve is just too steep for most people.
Vim/Neovim does one thing and one thing well, and that's edit text. I don't know where you go this idea that it can do anything (this is not emacs we are talking about), but It's primary usage is a text editor. It's Not even really exclusivly a code editor which Vscode is, it's majority edits text. It's really good at quick and dirty edits and if you customise it enough with multiple plugins It can be quite good at high performant programming. No where as good at Vscode in performant programming mind you, but still good enough.
I do agree, use whatever is best for you. But in this video idk sounds like you're saying neovim/vim doesn't work or something lol and isn't for normal people.
I find neovim to be much more useful with plugins because I can just copy over a config folder and have the same exact experience even when I'm SSHing into a remote server to check on something. Setting up the VScode text editing over ssh plugins has always been more hassle for me than just copying a single folder and calling it good
Neovim and all the goodies is such a PITA to set up on windows. And don’t even get me started with WSL. What junior developers have to realize is that at some pint you just have to use the tools that work to get the job done. Your boss isn’t going to give you 3 weeks to setup your pretty little environment. If vscode is what works then use that.
I use neovim on my Linux desktop but would never run it on my windows machine. I use VSCode and CLion if I’m on windows. I 100% agree that [neo]vim don’t work well with NT, powershell is sh*t so I don’t even wanna be in the terminal anyway
I am a hardcore neovim, emacs user. If youre not using nvim on linux, I'd probably try to sell it to you. But even I use VS code in windows. Under no circumstances would I try anything else. (Free JetBrains stuff I guess). Also I am the kind of guy who lives in the terminal but when I use windows I wouldnt even touch the command line.
Yup, works like a charm. The only time it ever slows down is if I'm playing youtube. Understand that I'm using Linux Mint w/Cinnamon, which requires far less resources than Windows.
I used to use vs code before. I switched to neovim and it honestly changed my life. RAM, Disk space are irrelevant. It's the keybindings that are a life changer.
vs code is definetly bloated in some ways, but it can run absolutely any hardware, i dont use it but i had ran it on my celeron 420, 1.6ghz only 1 core and 2gb of ram
Before I used neovim with plugins to make it like vscode, but now i think using telescope to navigate through files and switch projects using the terminal is just so much faster and convenient i cant imagine myself using a file tree anymore
who gives a fak about 1 or 2 GB RAM or 1 or 2 threads in 2023? Neovim isn't about saving resourses (only). It's about having control over and customizing your development process.
Well VSCode wastes a lot of resources for what it does but it’s true that on a modern machine it’s not a problem. I bet all others popular full fledged IDEs consume a lot more.
the argument for using neovim over vscode is very rarely bloat, bloat is a dumb argument. has to do with ergonomics, the fact it's FOSS, productivity and such. try again
Yeah, I have been doing the same for a while. I am switching back to Nvim mostly because I like more the cli workflow with tmux not because the experience on VSCode is bad. And also because I am vain and I like more the look of a well configured Nvim.
Im really on the fence between sticking with vim or jumping ship and heading over to neovim. I dont want to make the switch and regret it in the future. I started finding my groove with vim.
@@thatsalot3577 technically speaking nop. But your entire vim config file will work exactly in neovim. Neovim has a lot of features that are not in Vim like Lsp, treesitter, a standarized API, native Lua support and new customizations like statusline=3
I really hope you gave neovim a shot. you aren't giving up anything by switching only adding more options with native lsp and lua configuration. I couldn't imagine just using regular vim anymore without treesitter and such
I'm all for everyone using the tool that's best for them, vscode is fine! I personally prefer nvim because I've got it tied to a nix flake so I can easily run nvim on any machine, whether i'm ssh'd into a headless remote server, tunneling into a docker container, or just working locally, it's always the same experience. But with remote development tools getting better and better these days, that may not be an issue for everyone!
It's not about performance though. I use Neovim on a m1, it could be any other editor. It is more about the personal experience, and in that sense use what better works for you
Hi everyone ! I respect your choice, the strength of vim, nvim, or lvim is customizations, included shortcuts (keymaps) , able to import any plugin you want, both work well, it’s just vim is a simple text editor and you have to build it. Each one is free to use what he wants 🙂
I've been more than 20 years in software engineering and when I was younger I took pride on using Emacs. I had plenty of time to tweak the config, memorize the commands and sure I was very productive. But the past few years I don't have time for that I just want to get the job done and I want stuff to work and vscode is perfect for that. I run it one a 8 years old think pad and it runs like a charm.
@@ggs3442 it totally depends on how you explain lightweight. If you care about those minor differences of seconds then fine but on my pc it runs almost equal to vim in real world so it is lightweight imo. Other ide’s are much heavier.
@@HerzhaTheShapeshifter I think the problem might be with you, then. Entirely depends on what kind of code you're running on it, but it has an integrated terminal just like nvim does and you can always use that as well and it'll work the same way.
I'm a simple man. I prefer the VIM way of editing texts, but man, I don't really have the patience to learn how to customize neovim just to be able to reach the almost the same experience VSCode gives me from the start. So, I just add the VIM extension to VSCode, and I do the same stuff for the JetBrains IDEs.
VSCode is pretty crappy and bloated especially with the telemetry imo but nobody is stopping you from using what's better in your opinion. In the end what an IDE should do is read/write files, and maybe provide fancy intellisense and autocomplete. VSC and NVim both can do that, so who cares?
once you realize how much you can configure neovim to transcend vs code in all areas including linting even bypassing folding into literally code concealing and literally endless integrations like lazyloading and statusline manipulation even lazygit. jeez louise i don't think i could even be a quarter as productive in vs code as i am in nvim. I literally feel like a god doing 800 things in the push of a button. i can't even describe how much more you can do. YES the setup is a real pain in the wazzooo BUTTTTT once you get it done it's literally worth the trouble. name one thing you can do better in vs code and it's actually better in nvim hands down you just aren't aware of the plugin or config yet. I used to think vs code was just better too until i actually tried configuring nvim. but i guess i'm a tinkerer at heart and hate out of the box solutions prob why I run arch
Code concealing is something that Emacs has had since the 80s and works in every type of buffer. And Magit is the best git porcelain by far. Plus it can render graphical content such as HTML docs, PDFs, even interactive widgets for Jupyter notebooks. I think you should give it a try. Way more customizable than nvim.
Let see, it's going to be a long list but the comment has a limit so i will add just a few since you wanted just one. First, look at the fucking image that's in the project, have you had to add an icon in the application (excuse the language) yeah, when there are 50 files, it's so much productive to open your file manager and navigate to the folder to see the icons. (Blazing fast) With vs, you just click on it and it opens (magic) Issue N2: Remove navigation, good luck ssh with neovim or vim anywhere, if you want to transfer your environment you have to clone it on the other end, (You're probably doing it wrong with both if you need IDE on the server so i am inclined to leave this one hanging, still impossible with neovim) Issue N3 There is this thing memory profiling, i know that web developers don't care about stuff since you guys inject a package for left pad that's 1GB big and has 245951293 vulnerabilities with it, but some people actually care about their programs not the editor that they use so profiling tools are the bane of all evil and we need them. I am not saying it can't be done, you can technically profile a memory leak in the terminal, but we can technically build websites in assembler but because technically its possible doesn't mean it should be done. Issue N4 Debugging, yes while you can debug with neovim, the experience is much poorer then what you get just out of the box with vs code basic things like enabling/disabling just my code, or debugging internal projects from a single instance is basically not existent there. Issue N5 Pair programming, while possible with neovim, using a reverse shell not really the best experience so to say, vs code there is a clear winner Issue N6 How about life preview of the things that you're working on, can you render your app/website/game in the editor (cause emacs and vscode) can do it. Issue N7 No scope searching, if a file that you're currently in is a project and you try to search for a file that's in another scope it just doesn't work. With vs code as slow as it is (not really) can search multiple projects at the same time and get you the result. I know that this comment sounds mostly negative, but it's not meant to be, i am just saying that for every good thing in neovim there are bad things and it's not the thing that will solve all your issues. It's a workflow that you get used to, and we all as people should strive to do better instead of saying x is better then y as there will be always something that is better than the other in some aspect. I use both and i can't say that one is better than the other, but if we are going to sit here and preach the mindless words of few twitch streamers and RU-vid guys that don't have anything better to do with their life than milking gullible people for money are we really making progress as people and in our career or we are actually becoming what we are calming to solve by optimizing our workflow at the end of the day. Just use whatever makes you go fast, if it's nano go black and white and write it brother.
I just can't get past the idea of configuring things before you can dig into the meat. Also I like bleeding-edge and using the Astro VSCode extension. Guess what Neovim has to offer.
Everyone so defensive about their workflow whenever anyone asks "Why?" in either direction of IDEs or Vim/Emacs. Ultimately the only answer needed is "I like it and I can get my work done." Not saying you're overreacting, because I'm sure the comments are deafening, but it's just funny that we've reached this point. No matter what your workflow is, there's someone out there that's going to claim their workflow is better.
@iMagUdspEllr If that's what you value, then go for it! If I've learned anything about developer workflows in my career, it's that you can be successful with a wide-range of workflows. The great sage @teej_dv got it right when he said: > "It turns out the software development world is big enough to for people to have different opinions, different desires, different definitions of fun -- and that's okay!" ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-QMVIJhC9Veg.html
@@imagudspellr1644 "What works better" _depends entirely on the person_ though. You aren't in their head, you can't possibly know what the "only acceptable answer" is. If VSC is what works the best for you, then you should use it. You can talk all you want about fighting with the editor, but understand that other people might be doing things different from you. To people that are used to their nvim config, using VSC is like constantly fighting the editor. It's fine if that's your experience, but you're acting like this is an _objectively universal_ experience that _everyone has_ when that is just not true. This comment section is filled with people shitting on bryan for _not_ using nvim, surely you can see how silly that is. So why do you do the exact same thing?
I mean like if all the neovim people share their github profiles, wont be for all of them but 9/10 would be people that have less then 1 commit per year and if they are more then 10 it's issues and comments on others people code. As someone that used Emacs for 10 years, i can say, it makes absolutely no difference when it comes to productivity. In neovim you have Telescope, in vs code you have C-p, in emacs you have consult, they all do the same stupid thing find a file using fuzzy search. But i can tell you couple of cases where neovim actually sucks really bad in large code bases, emacs as well. Projects with submodules, try navigating something that has to be a directory above then the current file, doesn't work. LSP support for languages that are not mainstream, doesn't work really well, debugging, doesn't work very well. Setup time, if you're brand new to either neovim or emacs, you will spend at least 2 months to set it up, (no cloning lvim and doom doesn't count) and even with those two it's still couple of days just to get basic stuff working. Not really good experience. That being said, it does have it's positive stuff, you basically get to learn how language servers work and figure out new arcane ways to solve problems that you created on your own. You can shame people all day long, at the end of the day, your not handing me that fat paycheck i am feeding my family and you can measure your dicks all day long, i have better things to do with my life.
