Why is God hidden? Cosmic Skeptic & Lukas Ruegger at Oxford University with Max Baker-Hytch 

f you can't believe in God it's not God's fault. It's absurd to put God and man in the same context and reveals a complete lack of imagination and perspective. "St. Augustine said that all of us, made from nothing, tend toward nothing. We can see this in our frailty and sin and mortality. St. Paul said, “What do you have that you did not receive? And if you received it, why do you boast as if it were not a gift?” To believe in God is to know these truths. To live them out is to live in the attitude of humility. Thomas Aquinas said humilitas veritas, meaning humility is truth. It is living out the deepest truth of things: God is God and we are not. Now, all of this sounds very clear when it’s stated in this abstract manner, but man is it hard to live out! In our fallen world, we forget so readily that we are creatures. We start to assume that we are gods, the center of the universe. The ego becomes a massive monkey on our backs, and it has to be fed and pampered constantly. What a liberation it is to let go of the ego! Do you see why humility is not a degradation, but an elevation?" Bishop Robert Barron ? "Daily Gospel Reflection (08/20/2022)"

Atheism often occurs when a person is not properly disciplined as a child. He grows up believing he is his parents' and then God's equal resulting in a complete lack of proportion and perspective.

Godless and Souless people could not even theorized the Big Bang... Modern smartness...

@@joannware6228 I don't think I'm a God. Im an agnostic atheist and I believe humans are insignificant in the universe. I'm no God who can creates his own purpose. I don't think I have purpose, but I live and thrive everyday rebelling this absurdity. Not all atheist are as egoist as you think, people have different attitudes and reaction towards the absurdity. Some like what you have describe are existentialist who tries to create their own meaning, yes some atheist are like that but not all of them.

@@joannware6228 If you can't believe in invisible magical unicorns it's not the invisible magical unicorns fault.

Wonderful message. It's nice to find theists like you, also. All the best to you and yours.

As I am praying that God shows you the error of your ways

As a passive atheist/agnostic, this is my favorite Christian channel for the same reason. It makes me really happy to see that Justin and Alex look to actually be good friends.

@@camdenbarkley1893 ah God bless you! I’m glad you’re approaching this with honestly and I wish you all the best on your journey and pray that the love of God fills your heart as you seek🤍

Me also. He is very thoughtful, humble, and brave. He is willing to take his thoughts to their conclusions even if it challenges him or his past beliefs. He follows what he thinks is truth wherever it goes.

not realll, i've lost count of the number of times he says "well, we can come back to that, but first".

...he's a very talented fellow...

the difference between atheism ...and a HAThEism...

Have you tried reading the Qur’an?

​@@celestialknight2339stop that

@@UniteAgainstEvil Stop what?

Surely not.

You don’t think he is well thought out and also not completely hostile in his approach?

He's a mere child, with no understanding of spiritual things.

@@schinzo19 Those things are true. But all men know nothing of gain without God.

I'm an atheist and I agree - he's excellent

@@danielconway7190 If you can't believe in God it's not God's fault. It's absurd to put God and man in the same context and reveals a complete lack of imagination and perspective. "St. Augustine said that all of us, made from nothing, tend toward nothing. We can see this in our frailty and sin and mortality. St. Paul said, “What do you have that you did not receive? And if you received it, why do you boast as if it were not a gift?” To believe in God is to know these truths. To live them out is to live in the attitude of humility. Thomas Aquinas said humilitas veritas, meaning humility is truth. It is living out the deepest truth of things: God is God and we are not. Now, all of this sounds very clear when it’s stated in this abstract manner, but man is it hard to live out! In our fallen world, we forget so readily that we are creatures. We start to assume that we are gods, the center of the universe. The ego becomes a massive monkey on our backs, and it has to be fed and pampered constantly. What a liberation it is to let go of the ego! Do you see why humility is not a degradation, but an elevation?" Bishop Robert Barron ? "Daily Gospel Reflection (08/20/2022)"

@@joannware6228 for someone who talks about ego and humility so much, you sure like to go around insulting people

@@danielconway7190 I’m a Christian and I agree. I love when we can get together a discuss issues and not try to go for each other’s throat. Wish you well.

Paul did not exist. He was literary figure invented to fulfill a purpose in the bible

Funny...just the opposite happened to me. I was once a skeptic...and as I have aged, and have been able to study physics, and mathematics, and biology, and cosmology...etc, I can see how the universe is a grand scale of design. But I suppose we all have a road we have to take. And I would agree, that an omniscient God ...would know whether or not you were honest in your search. Agreed. The one thing I find discouraging in some who choose not to believe in a Creator/Designer...is sometimes it seems they point their finger at "Christianity". Seems fair on the surface...but the truth is...most, if not all Christian churches...are corrupt. I try not to equate God, and his existence...with what a so-called Christian leader teaches. Just because someone professes their brand of religion, and ideology of God...means they are OF God. Many people who profess Chrisitanity...are simply put...pure evil. Devious. I don't equate religion with God. It is quite plausible, and believeable...that God has no part in certain "religions". So no...I do not believe that just because someone claims God...that they are OF God. I find it discouraging when a certain religion preaches of behaves in a certain evil or devious manner, that many will reject God, because of some cult leader who claims God speaks to them. Because some religion claims God...does not mean...God claims them and their theology.

@@baberoot1998 Thanks for sharing your perspective. I agree with much of what you said. I do want to clarify that I never “chose not to believe in a creator”. I just don’t see any reason to believe in a supernatural realm and/or eternal life. I accept that I could be wrong and am open to evidence. I don’t find the argument from design convincing because I think we are one of the life forms that adapted to the conditions of the planet/universe rather than the conditions being designed for us. Also, Christian hypocrisy had nothing to do with my deconversion. In fact, I lived as a cultural Catholic for several years after I lost my faith. My experiences in the church were mostly positive. I couldn’t agree more that we all have our own road to take and I wish you all the best on yours!

@@baberoot1998 I also wonder if we are using the term “skeptic” in the same way. I define being a skeptic as having reason for the things I believe and, most importantly, being willing to change my mind when presented with new or contradicting evidence. I see a lot of people use the term skeptic for what I would call a cynic. I define this as closing one’s mind to the evidence and hanging on to a preferred belief. How are you using it?

The smartest atheists don't remain atheists, but for Alex it's a career.

@@joannware6228 smart people, atheist or otherwise, understand that intelligence is not a significant factor in one's tendency toward religiosity.

He thinks like a machine and pretends to be something he's not.

@@planetofthevegans880but he is brutally honest and humble

Me also 😊

@@planetofthevegans880 Most Humans are Androids open your own mind.

Thats really dumb.

Mutta miksi kutsua ihmisiä Jumalan lapsiksi, jos Jumalaa ei ole?

Beautiful comment 🙌🏽

joo kylla kylla

Buddhist agnostic atheist 😂😂😂 brooooo that’s silly funny and overly descriptive ironically even since Buddhism Denies distinctions

My mother was a theologian suffering from severe depression, she could not experience god, then committed suicide. If a god exists, it feeds on our suffering.

Sorry to be replying so late! I've been through some similar dark nights of the soul where I wonder why I experience him so little after "sacrificing so much." I think therein lies the lie that he wants to undo in our hearts. Our relationship is never transactional. He never gives himself to us in exchange for all that we've done for him. He gives himself to us, through the sacrifice of his son. Sometimes I think he will allow us to experience distance from him, so that we don't feel so entitled to his grace. I'm pointing the finger at myself here. He loves you--and that will never change based on when you feel or don't feel him. He loves you because of his own heart--nothing you can ever do. When you can't feel him, tell him thank you, and rest in his love for you. Think about the fact that the cross was for you, and your worth and value and eternal security have already been determined.

One think I have learnt is God mostly shows himself to the people that needs him the most. God show himself to the most sinful one and who are going against God. If you are already following God and doing what he is supposed to then God does not feel the need to seek you out. When you are in the path of God then Evil/Demon does seek you out to break your will away from God.

@banibon47 I'm very sorry but I read your last words as "...to those who are sick and knocked". How utterly careless of me. Another thing: Comparing oneself and one's life's struggles with (presumably) the most tormented nation in human history isn't a little... presumptuous, you think? Just a thought, of course, I don't know you.

@@noorzanayasmin7806 Seems like an extremely valuable thing to learn. Also, it totally bashes the discussion concerning God's alleged hiddenness, right?

Why don't you guys do a collaboration than ?

It would have been better with Isaiah's explanation of God hiding his face because of our sins, and so on throughput his chapter 59, then gives the answer, where no one could be found to righteously intercede, so the Lord brought salvation for Himself with the arm of the Lord. Who is also revealed in chapter 53. "To whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?" Here's a clue, "He bore the sin of many and interceded for the transgressors." Isaiah 53:12c.

He has succinct and reasonable arguments against the Christian worldview. As long as these are respectful and in the pursuit of truth, I'm interested in hearing them. They give me an opportunity to see things from a new angle, even if I come to a different conclusion.

I am astonished that Alex does not admit that non-rational particles cannot produce rational thoughts.

@@immanuel829 I don't follow

@@kotvisbj what I mean is this: naturalists believe that their intelligence is the product of non-intelligent particles. Whoever wants to believe that, fine, but it's not science. Moreover, it doesn't seem very logical either. Molecules have neither thoughts nor free will. The self that is looking through your marvellous eyes cannot be reduced to physics and chemistry. "This conclusion strongly reinforces our belief in the human soul and in its miraculous origin in a divine creation." John Eccles, neuroscientist and Nobel laureate

@@immanuel829 I don't think you have represented Alex very well in your comment above nor the underlying argument. I would love to see an "intelligent particle". When we get into the roots of our origins they look unrecognizable to anything we see today. So the underlying point of the hiddenness of God still remains. Why doesn't God seem to want to be found? It's clearly not compelling in a clear way that gets everyone on the same page. So I have to assume God, if it's out there, has no interest in having us understand anything about it. Maybe there is something out there but without any clarity, we have no direction so we are left to our own devices to make sense of all of it.

@@kotvisbj That's exactly the point: particles are not intelligent but Alex is! Hence he is more than matter. And so are you. The burden of proof is on the naturalist who claims non-rational unconscious molecules can create rational thoughts! Apropos origins: how (let alone why) dust and water became alive "remains one of the biggest mysteries in contemporary science" (Nature Reviews Chemistry 2020) DNA is a digital code, like software. Geneticist + former atheist Francis Collins calls it the "language of God". All the best for your further faith + life journey.

I hope God puts Alex through a meatgrinder in the process of saving him, IF that's what God intends. I would oppose rewarding this twerp for using his limited intellect to mock God.

I enjoy clams

@@allthingsconsideredaa I prefer shrimp and scallions.

@@20july1944 I enjoy shrimp with scallions and scallops

@@allthingsconsideredaa Scallops are indeed yummy as well.

Lol that's funny.

Much love, dear fellow interneter! i am not sure how to say this so forgive me if I am clumsy-worded as it is never my intent to offend, there are theists who are very sure that God exists. I am sorry for your pain, as sin has made it more difficult for all of us to have a relationship with God, but I did want to emphasize that He is there, and He does answer prayers. if you don't mind my respectfully asking, what made you doubt?

@@Sammy-Dontpassmeby 53:12 It’s hard to believe you are being honest. I answered your question in my OP, and Alex speaks to it during the whole video. And listen to the theist in my timestamp. God is either hiding from a large portion of humanity, and is willing to torture them for all eternity for it, or he doesn’t exist. I know your sacred beliefs won’t allow you to believe it, but I grew up in an evangelical family, and I am an example of a very non-resistant non-believer, I am proof that your perfectly loving god doesn’t exist. Theology is just the post hoc rationalization for beliefs that you already hold. You can understand why apologetics is ineffective with atheists and in particular ex-vangelical’s, and I am way happier to live with no fear of the insanely sadistic god of abrahamic theism. No doubts. Enjoy your “waiting on the lord” and “god’s timing” and when you let go of all that we are here for you ❤

The main motivation for wanting a relationship with God is fear.

​@@conordelaney76For some people yes, but not everyone. It certainly wasn't the case for me when I believed in God. I worshipped him out of gratitude. Once I examined the evidence for his existence, I found no good arguments for it, so I stopped believing.

@adriani9432 Fair enough. I do think that people will ignore the evidence (or lack thereof) out of fear. Fear of death being the end, fear of not seeing lost loves ones again in the afterlife, and fear of burning in hell for all of eternity. Sure, some people will pursue God out of gratitude. I do think the instillation of fear is the most common way of brainwashing children into pursuing a life devoted to God.

lukas makes my skin crawl, he's just about the worst youtuber i can think of.

What is God waiting for? This is the issue at hand. God is not available to us to experience in any meaningful and empirically verifiable way.

@@teachpeace3750 It's an amazing phenomenon. Atheists egos are so enormous they believe they can reinvent the universe.

@@joannware6228 lol, what?

As a believer, do you have any thoughts as to why God hasn't revealed himself to Alex yet?

@@teachpeace3750-what you’re asking for is a category error. However, on the Christian view, God became a human in the person of Jesus of Nazareth. Thus, He became “available to experience in a meaningful and empirically verifiable way”. As the apostle John wrote, “That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen [empirical observation] with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life-the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us…” (1 John 1:1-2).

You traded one drug for another.

I think this comment is ironic :P

And your evidence for what you assert you know about your god's revelation is what?

Who is this one that has a brain ?.You are the product of a brain

That is one thing I have experienced and as Christian wrestle with. I transitioned from being Muslim to Christianity. It is hard for me to accept human being who lived a righteous life their whole life according to bible but did not know the real truth of the real god and never believed in the truth and therefore persecuted. It almost doesnt seem fair. It seems that God revealed truth to us and it is up to us to pursue the truth but sometimes it feems near impossible. That is why I am incline to believe that there is a judgement where God reveals the truth to you and gives you choice whether to follow him or not when you are given all the necessary information. In Christianity that would be purgatory perhaps. I want to believe in Karma where the sum total of your deed is what happens to you but I do not want to believe in it if it is not 100% true.

Why do you think belief in God would save you? The devil believes in God.

The smartest atheists don't remain atheists, but for Alex it's a career.

@@joannware6228 What an arrogant and disrespectful thing to say.

@@klo4880 Yeah!

But you'd still know if it happened right? Can you have a personal encounter with the holy spirit and not know?

Also many people do think evolution gave us some aspects of what we call morality. It allows social species to survive better.

@@danielconway7190 those who had an encounter with God who were next to Paul didn’t hear Gods voice but rather the sound of thunder and a bright light, so I guess depends

Which partner the Bible should he read? The bit that says homosexuality it wrong, or the bit that says women are slaves to their male counterpart?

And do you have any evidence that prayer actually work? If god has a plan and it never changes, then why bother praying at all? A make-a-wish genie for deluded people.

@@ic7204 I don’t understand why you throw out reason and evidence in determining the truths of the beliefs, but then try to use logic to justify the internal coherence.

@@ic7204 I don’t mean to sound offensive or supercilious, but that sounds to me like a rather odd epistemology. Why not simply accept any proposition in proportion to the evidence for it? If one does this honestly and consistently it is impossible to accept the Christian claims.

Compromise his character - hmph - right, okay: What WAS that character, again? By Deuteronomy 21, perhaps a little bit, compromised, then - also.

I do see what you're saying, but it appears to me that such a path would stop such discussion in a stalemate. Believer says - You need to ask for a revelation; atheist replies - I'm doing all I can, I'm open. Whether the latter is being honest doesn't matter, really. This discussion is now stuck, even if atheist is being honest.

@@mikhail_from_afar Agreed. Good point. I'm not saying we stop giving reasons and delivering argumentation but this idea that we can't appeal to experience or ask people to do that is just not going to do it and the fact that many apologists caved to this idea that argumentation is all you need is wrong too. As I said, it seems to sometimes backfire as shown in this video.

If I want to get to know my child and them know me I do it. It's not about them asking me.

​@@austinperkins8348well said. An all-loving father wouldn't sit and cross his hands and wait for you to search for him.

Well not if as it seems here,'if Alex can manage to stick around long enough god MAY show him evidence he exists'

So we all have personal Gods. Each one fits perfectly to the expectations of its "owner". VERY convenient. Each personal God gives its owner a good feeling, of being Chosen, being the center of attention of an all-powerful being (how elating), that you cannot go wrong when you follow Him, that you are always on the RIGHT side. How do you know that these personal Gods are all one and the same? Some's personal God is one of love and peace, that is tolerant and wants us all to live together in harmony however the mindset (NICE!), the personal God of others is one with a fiery sword that is slaying all the infidels, and anything other than a pure christian God state is intolerable. And millions of different flavors (in principle 2.7 billion personal Gods) in between. Which one is right? Trouble is the postulation of each one that this is the PERFECT divine revelation, so all dissenting ones MUST be completely wrong. The divine perfection makes it impossible to change the personal God. But as Christians share there is only one God, they simply define that they all mean the same, and have learned not to perceive the differences of the personal Gods of the other Christians, to never ask about specifics. Would we be able to admit to our ideas and values being all individual and that for living together, we have to find common ground, which is tedious and never ending, because people change all the time, we would all be better off. I fully understand the appeal of the feeling of being Chosen by an all-powerful being, but I also see that you can reach the same feelings with other methods or from other gods, so what makes your's right? The argument ad populum is not too compelling. And think that where the whole Jesus story originated it remained one story of several of the same God, the whole region remained rather insignificant. It became successful when it spread in the far advanced cultures of Greece and Rome, both with DIFFERENT polytheistic cultures. Can it be that without the (non-christian-based) power of these cultures it would not have worked out that well? The greeks knew (assumed) the earth was a globe centuries before Christianity. And many things that Christians assign to their religion (e.g. logic) are citations from Greek philosophers. It is easy to assign all to God when you simply include everything... That is my issue with the personal God.

@@feedsravens4655 How many different kinds of relationships do you have with your family, friends and colleagues? isn't this similar to the concept of a personal God? One God with different relationships with different persons? And yes, my love is quite different for my wife compared to my children and my friends. Am I a different person? Yes and no depends on the situation and the kind of person I'm with. Do you treat God as a being or as an object? We must also understand that He is not human but we are like Him.

@@leoteng1640 What you describe is that what we know, what exists in the reality we perceive. A relation that is individual between individuals. That would mean your "personal God" is just like some buddy you look up to. Trouble is that God has properties he MUST possess, or it makes little sense to call him God and respect him: 1) Omnipotent 2) Omniscient 3) eternal 4) Creator of EVERYthing 5) unchanging (means all the statements, morals, logic, values etc. NEVER change) 6) Perfect 7) Absolute 8) Just - treating ANY human with the same standards. 9) Benevolent 10) All-loving, means he will give all equal chances, will invest the same effort to give ANYbody the same chance to be saved and go to heaven for eternal happiness.ANYtime, ANYplace, ANYone. 11) He knows what is persuasive for ANY person on earth, as he is omniscient, and he can create that "persuasive proof", as he is omnipotent? Do you agree on these mandatory properties or which do you exclude? (I daresay, that you will modify the fixed, static properties of God according to the situation you have to explain, but do not perceive how you apply different subsets each time). For instance, aboriginees in Australia could not know about Jesus having saved them until a few hundred years ago. Did all go to hell up to that point even though their only "fault" was being born on the same continent? They did NOT use their Free Will to be born there. Or was it the Free Will choice of some of the ancestors of Noah's sons to wander to Australia (and forget about the one God) that blocked the path to salvation for countless generations? So to speak, guilt by inheritance? Or what is with persons whose mental capabilities are so impaired that they are unable to grasp the concept of God? From demented to embryo, are these exempted, i.e. get to heaven nevertheless? When you have to begin to start to make such exceptions, then you open Pandora's box. Because then you cannot exclude that at least SOME atheists are mentally impaired to perceive the evidence for God that you consider is so obvious. That they were quasi born blind, and God in his omnipotence is responsible for this "birth defect", as he controls EVERYTHING. (after all, he controls that prophecies become fulfilled after centuries, so either all is fixed before the universe even began (which negates Free Will) or God constantly interferes to bring the course of the world back in order when Free Will spoilt the plan again (also destroying Free Will)). Can you exclude that such a "blindness" might exist? Another possibility for this "blindness" is to have grown up in an environment where the belief in this specific God simply played no role. See the aboriginees, or Hindus, or simply atheist scientist parents. Compared to a child that was born into a pious family, told it is a born sinner bound for hell as soon as it was able to understand words, was taken to church every week (at least), was trained to pray itself into trance and speak in tongues before entered school. Is that inequality of opportunity fair for an omnipotent, omni-benevolent, loving God?

God is in your head and nowhere else

@@leebennett1821 Leo's personal Jesus is like James Stewart's "Harvey", the invisible, talking, 6-foot rabbit. A friend, a partner, with a weird wisdom helping you in your life. But is this puka real? Another effect that I am reminded of is the Third Man Syndrome. That is a known, documented effect that is usually experienced by people under extended, exthaustive physical stress in more or less isolation. They experence the presence of an additional person, with which they might even speak, that encourages them, raises their spirit (lol). In their state they do not think about how this can be possible at all. And when for some reason they are turning round to where the person should be, no one is there. So to speak a "natural", non-divine phenomenon, but I think of the stories of guardian angels, of Jesus appearing to Saul on his march to Damascus, of Noah on the mountain having God speak through a burning bush, Jesus out in the desert arguing with the devil. My boss told us when he was on a 15,000+ foot high Himalayan summit, he has the absolutely realistic memory that they met a sherpa with his yak up there and spoke with him. He knew it is absolute rubbish, but it is there. In my eyes the alien abductions (or Kate Kerr's regular visits of Heaven to talk with God) are not more than sleep paralysis, a phase during waking up, when the connection to your body (control) is still asleep that causes panic, and your brain makes up hilarious stories from memory fragments to explain that paralysis. In one I thought to myself "No wonder you cannot leaf back to page one of this book, you are asleep, it CANNOT work", and so could (in my dream) relax and watch myself searching frantically. Just an abnormal brain state. Last one is Near-death experiences. Also an abnormal state, when the brain is deprived of oxygen, but still working (the chemicals that make up our thinking are not all spent). Eyes and ears still work, so there is input. And no wonder when the brain now "tries" to do something and creates effects like the two above.

You sound totally deranged. If one person spoke like this they would be in a mental facility....millions spout this delusional nonsense and its called religion.

Whatever it is, it doesn't seem to be within a person's control and therefore should not be a barrier God refuses to cross

@@niceguy191 But who is blocking who? We humans can be very blind and miss the obvious. We also often don't see what is right in front of our eyes and obvious to others. Our mind can play tricks on us and our own thinking can keep us trapped. I don't think it is God hiding from us, it is the other way around. We wilfully either knowingly or unknowingly don't want to see/know.

@@rl7012 If God is so difficult to see that we can unknowingly block him from our vision then we have no hope... Imagine genuinely trying to see the sun and somehow failing. A God wanting to be discovered would be orders of magnitude easier to find than the sun. If our minds are so good at playing tricks on us, then how do we know that God isn't the trick of the mind? If you are squinting at the barely visible blurry thing in the distance and only see the shape after being primed on what it is, how can you trust that what you think you see is reality? Especially when a telescope shows nothing there...

@@rl7012but why would a loving god make us that way?

@@freshjunkie4392 We were not made that way, We have free will, we can see if we want to see and we can remain imprisoned in our lying minds if we choose that.

Interesting as a Christian I don’t live my life in fear but rather live life to the fullest knowing that when I die God will accept me into his kingdom, not because I’m good but because God is good and through his son he’s made a way so that I may reconcile myself with him

“For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.” ‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭1:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

LB I know what you mean. Evangelical christianity gets very heavy and wordy. Lots of fear and anxiety. Surely the message of Jesus wasn't supposed to be like that? When I was a teenager and a Christian I used to feel that if people went to hell and I hadn't "witnessed" to them when I could have, then their " blood would be on my hands" ( whatever that meant!) How anxiety producing and heavy is that?!!

Listen to Joseph Prince. You cannot by yourself fulfill the law, no man can. It is grace that helps you fulfill it. An awareness of the law cannot help. The ancient Israelites over centuries proved this. It is grace that teaches you to deny (lose the character of) ungodliness

@@ic7204 Sorry I wont take my evidences from Gary, I would take it from someone who did a scientific study. Funny how the evidences show that culture plays a huge role as each saw evidence from there own culture and religions for NDE. Basically the brain played tricks and they had vivd dreams.

That necessarily may not be true. There are a lot of people who do experience divine miracle and God. There are people that talk about it in their NDE experience. We have a lot to learn and relearn on the topic of God. Knowledge that we knew one time we dont anymore.

The smartest atheists don't remain atheists, but for Alex it's a career.

@@joannware6228 says someone who doesn't listen...

Agreed, and I was actually surprised that Alex didn't bring this point up in the conversation. If the counterarguments are only going to get you to an amorphous conceptual entity, then you've really done nothing to refute the problem of divine hiddenness. It's just punting the ball again with an extremely copious amount of words on paper.

Yes, if God really is there unambiguously, then there should only be one religion as everyone would find the same answer.

God can never be found with science or logic because He resides above and below them. He created them so their existence is evidence of His. "We must know and feel in our bones what is wrong in us; we must look it in the face and acknowledge it with uncompromising honesty. Without this journey into our own inner hell, we will not feel the compunction to shift our way of being and seeing. And we must awaken to what is godlike in us, what is rich and unbroken, what is united with the saving designs of God. Without this clear sense, we will fall into complacency and see metanoia as, at best, a cruel illusion." Bishop Robert Barron "Daily Gospel Reflection (08/23/2022)"

@@joannware6228 The existence of god could be objectively known to every human in a way that doesn’t require philosophical inquiry. Jesus allegedly rising from the dead is suppose to be the most important event in human history and the information available is entirely subjective.

@@joannware6228 This is an emotional appeal. Why do these realizations require a god? There’s polarity. An individual who wants to maximize their potential needs to become aware of the things that impede that potential.

i really believe that the topic of miracles is imperative to the conversation of divine hiddenness/how God reveals Himself. it’s a key part of the future of apologetics.

"And I will love them and reveal myself to them." He revealed himself to me, so am I special? No! I simply accept his commandments. It's accept or reject.

The conversation has not even reached the statement that God became man. Weird. How can one debate Christian faith without its most central dogma, which sheds light on so many aspects of this topic!?

@@jozsefnemeth935 I don't watch the discussions. I tried a couple of times and couldn't make myself. I'll have to try harder. Thanks.

So he's dead? Appaently not. He voluntarily put himself in a coma state for 3 days to sacrifice himself to himself to forgive himself for rules and a situration that he created. Wow, thank you so much god.

@@shaqyardie8105 Can you please elaborate? I have no idea what you're talking about.

@@joannware6228 You said he died for us? But he's still alive? So he didn't die? And why did he need to do this? He created a situation that he is unhappy with and he's all powerful, but he can't get rid of the problem? The only evidence you have is a book that a radom man wrote in. Your god supposedly created whole planets, stars, moons and galaxies, but after that he seems to be incapable of doing things without the help of human beings. Noah build me a boat, Joseph let me impregnate your girlfriend so I can bring myself to earth because jut bringing myself to earth like when I walked in the garden in genesis won't be enough. A god that doesn't talk or reveal themsleves is indistinguishable from a god that doesn't exist.

Shame that the theists don't reciprocate and are never "so open to other worldviews" and instead assert that they "know" that their chosen flavour of god is the only "true" flavour.

@@downenout8705 All theists? Why are you downen out? 😢

@@Indorm Yes all theists, are you seriously trying to claim that a Muslim would proclaim the truth of 1 Corinthians 15: 14, or say a non Catholic Christian that the Eucharist is actual flesh and blood. I like the handle Downen Out, as it is a reminder of how utterly insignificant I am and not to have the arrogance to assert that I know the mind of the supposed creator of the entire cosmos.

@@downenout8705 Many theists I know grew up atheist and converted later, like biologist Sy Garte. I myself grew up Christian but went through a period of investigation when I wanted to follow the evidence where it leads. I went through a period of just floating and not being sure about the resurrection for about six months. We do listen. And we do love you, because God loves you. That’s one thing I’m really sure about these days.

@@Indorm So you grew up "knowing" your flavour of god is the only "true" god because your mummy told you so. All you have told me is that your choice of god is based on indoctrination and accidental geography. Doesn't seem like you are listening to me, yet you still have the audacity to assert that you "know" what your flavour of god thinks about me. Let's be clear, there is no empirical evidence to "follow" in respect of the biblical resurrection claim. I say to you with the same degree of confidence that the sun will rise tomorrow that, if you reply, you will never rebut my assertion with even a single sentence contain just a mustard seed's worth of empirical evidence. Belief without sufficient evidence is indistinguishable from gullibility and I am proud to say that, as a former Christian, I am no longer gullible.

Well said! This was my experience as well! And just to add a bit, I’m open to discussing the issue at anytime. However each time a member of my family broaches the subject and sees how honest and open I am, they become terrified and shut it down. It makes me sad to see people so strongly in the grips of an ideology that gently confronting the topic with honesty scares them.

Could it not be that the experiences you had were signs of God’s existence, but that Christianity wasn’t quite the right way? Don’t throw away the baby with the bath water. My advice is to ask yourself what is randomness or indeterminacy? Is there such a thing as ‘true lawless randomness’ where we have to stop searching for deeper explanations and just accept? This is what modern physics has led us to. Sound a bit like religion? When you stop searching for an explanation always ask yourself why you stopped at that point and if it is a satisfactory place to stop.

@@r00kiepilot in hindsight I acknowledge that the experiences I had do not represent good evidence. They were comparable to the experiences of people in other faiths whose beliefs are completely incompatible with the Christian beliefs I held. I’m not sure what randomness has to do with belief in a God apart from that it would seem a strange way for a God to operate. Evolution seems a particularly odd way for achieving any particular desired outcome for life on earth. Any God capable of universe creation and true relationship with humans would be capable of doing a more efficient and effective job, unless the object was to conceal his existence, which the bible strongly suggests is not the case. I’m fairly satisfied after a decade or so of searching with much of the position I have come to. Just as most people are pretty comfortable with the position they’ve come to with regard to other mythologies. I have no intention of ignoring any new evidence I can find that might change my position.

I'm the opposite. I've been a "seeker" in the true sense of the word for a long time now. I quite like some aspects of Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism etc. but I am actually finding evidence for the Christian religion which I am surprised to be finding. I dismissed Christianity as an angsty teen and went all over the place since. However, I had an inner revelation which was just a simple thought: "I would hate to see the world without Jesus in it". It was a serious thought. Imagine this pinnacle of the expression of human love and sacrifice didn't actually exist... Since then, things have started opening up for me. Look into the latest evidences for the veracity of the Shroud of Turin for example; or look into Gary Habermas' proofs for the resurrection of Christ. I think there is possibly more evidence for Christianity than any other religion. Far from it being the faith of the ill informed; it seems those who are rejecting it are simply not aware of the amount of scrutiny Christianity allows and can still come off winning - or at the very least - not losing (this channel is a great source for that). Christianity can hold its ground pretty well I find.

@@elsoil3387 I don’t think you will find much scholarly support for an early dating of the shroud of Turin. It’s generally accepted as of 14th century origin or there abouts. So I’d recommend further research on that one. The Wikipedia article seems to cover dating pretty well. Regarding the proofs for the resurrection I’d recommend the work of RU-vidr Paulogia who has made that a specialty of his, including addressing Gary Habermas’ work. I’ve always found Paulogia scrupulously thorough and honest and happy to concede points that disagree with his own views. In my experience apologetics arguments seldom acknowledge evidence that doesn’t fit the personal beliefs of their presenter. They are generally used as a tool to persuasively represent one side of the argument rather than providing unbiased analysis. As such they are fairly convincing to people who wish to adhere to the beliefs they support but may not stand up to more in-depth scrutiny. I found the apologetics books I read as a Christian very convincing as I was not looking at any contradictory evidence. I also found the “documentary” on the faking of the moon landing somewhat convincing until I did further research. The easy access we have to information through the internet today certainly makes it easier to look at all available evidence. For an balanced understanding of the origins of the bible, that you’re unfortunately unlikely to hear from church based sources, I’d recommend the work of Prof Bart Ehrman.

What about the love between 2 men?

@@conordelaney76 What about it? My love for my dad can also wane so that I may act selfishly. The same principles hold there as well. Is there any reason they shouldn't?

@@phinehas68 What about the romantic and intimate love between two non-related male lovers?

@@conordelaney76 Again, what about it? Are you saying that in your experience such relationships are not subject to the principles I described? Or are you just attempting to troll?

@@phinehas68 You made reference to the love between a husband and wife.

If you can't believe in God it's not God's fault. It's absurd to put God and man in the same context and reveals a complete lack of imagination and perspective. "St. Augustine said that all of us, made from nothing, tend toward nothing. We can see this in our frailty and sin and mortality. St. Paul said, “What do you have that you did not receive? And if you received it, why do you boast as if it were not a gift?” To believe in God is to know these truths. To live them out is to live in the attitude of humility. Thomas Aquinas said humilitas veritas, meaning humility is truth. It is living out the deepest truth of things: God is God and we are not. Now, all of this sounds very clear when it’s stated in this abstract manner, but man is it hard to live out! In our fallen world, we forget so readily that we are creatures. We start to assume that we are gods, the center of the universe. The ego becomes a massive monkey on our backs, and it has to be fed and pampered constantly. What a liberation it is to let go of the ego! Do you see why humility is not a degradation, but an elevation?" Bishop Robert Barron ? "Daily Gospel Reflection (08/20/2022)"

@@joannware6228 See, this is what needed to actually be discussed in the video, and it wasn’t. It seems to me that you take the position that there is no such thing as a non-resistant non-believer. Meaning, anyone who does not believe in God is because they have something in themselves that does not allow them to believe. As such, there is nothing God can do to make them believe. That is precisely the core issue behind divine hiddenness.

God does not bring everyone to believe in Him personally (salvation). But He does provide all the evidence of His existence by what we see in His magnificent celestial creations.

Far, far too generic. Also, how does this help the 'natural man' of 1 Corinthians 2... And what is a 'natural angel', ben benalu ...

@ChristianRebel Narrow it down first - what IS the message of the Cross? And which church is closest to meeting it? And why is this form of restitution required at all, does it 'redeem' Deuteronomy 21:13 (for example) and why was Satan owed access to this world, at all? As well as why sin, ignorance and suicidal pride would arise in heaven at all (optional) And angels HAD spiritual discernment, yet one third of them could not discern basic spiritual facts, in heaven, pre revolt. So were they 'natural angels'? Even though, in contrast to 1 Corinthians 2:14, they - inherited - nothing, seemingly? And lastly, what is your view of John 14:12?

Rejoice, O young man, while you are young and let your heart be glad in the days of your youth. Follow the ways of your heart, the vision of your eyes; Yet understand that as regards all this God will bring you to judgment. Ward off grief from your heart and put away trouble from your presence, though the dawn of youth is fleeting. Remember your Creator in the days of your youth, before the evil days come And the years approach of which you will say, I have no pleasure in them; Before the sun is darkened, and the light, and the moon, and the stars, while the clouds return after the rain; When the guardians of the house tremble, and the strong men are bent, And the grinders are idle because they are few, and they who look through the windows grow blind; When the doors to the street are shut, and the sound of the mill is low; When one waits for the chirp of a bird, but all the daughters of song are suppressed; And one fears heights, and perils in the street; When the almond tree blooms, and the locust grows sluggish and the caper berry is without effect, Because man goes to his lasting home, and mourners go about the streets; Before the silver cord is snapped and the golden bowl is broken, And the pitcher is shattered at the spring, and the broken pulley falls into the well, And the dust returns to the earth as it once was, and the life breath returns to God who gave it. Vanity of vanities, says Qoheleth, all things are vanity!" ECCL 11:9-12:8

Who are you referring to when you say I dont believe?

Lucas is a young earth creationist, so I don't think that aspect bothers him too much.

If you had of incorporated the holy trinity into your triangle analogy, it would've be an A+ for effort.

So what you are saying is: depart from rational thinking, logic and skepticism, and instead just believe something despite any coherent reasoning. Then you will truly believe and perhaps experience God.

You wish religion could take you from home to the store? What do you mean?

@@tinymcgoo1195 Simple, Clear and easy to demonstrate.

It's gotta be like a matrix for sure.

I don't know all of your reasons to walk away, and I don't have answers for all of them... but there is NO one like Jesus. I have found many have left Christ from an unbalanced view of who he is... if you were interested...you may read "Gentle and Lowly" by Ortlund. Luke 15 still applies. Grace and peace to you.

They're all reinterpretations of the allegory of the cave. It's not so much that the matrix or the Truman show describe reality as it really is, but rather that they seek to describe the nature of the interactions between reality and human consciousness. I actually think Alvin Plantinga's argument against naturalism is almost all correct because we can't absolve ourselves of the cave, we didn't evolve to. In fact, I think we evolved to create the cave itself as a psychological tool that aids in our survival. Now, does that mean that we cannot trust the information we perceive through our limited senses? Of course not, that's where his arguments fail, but when leave a cave, doing so necessitates that we either find a new one, or begin to create our own. Sub conscious bias within our narratives is an inevitable phenomenon of perception, it's not something that we can do away with without holding our knowledge to standards beyond ourselves. The matrix describes this better than the Truman show, being that neo never finds the answers. On the contrary, he wholly submits himself to the machines who are in a matrix of their own creation. To be fair, I don't think the Truman show sought to explore this, rather its goal was to show people that the cultivation of skepticism can lead them to free their own wills from indoctrination. The matrix definitely takes this several steps further.

@@He.knows.nothing what is your evidence for us living in a simulation? And why does this lead us away from a deism worldview?

@@Golfinthefamily the simulations in the matrix and the Truman show are allegories for world view narratives. So it's not that I believe we literally exist within a simulation, but rather that our own minds produce these narratives themselves to organize our experiences into a consistent and comprehensible framework. These frameworks can develop into ideologies that transcend the individual and can directly or indirectly instigate biases that suppress free thought in regards to the nature of our existence in order to maintain their integrity, which can make us docile and complacent regardless of whether what we believe is true or not. Plato's allegory of the cave argues that free thought can allow an individual to break free from their shadow prison which allegorically describes the potential of an individual to apply skepticism and deconstruct their own indoctrinations.

Or not.

If deeply learning about biology and physics leads one to the religion in general and the Christian religion in particular, then why are most PhD level biologists and physicists agnostic / atheists?

I think you're projecting your own wants/ beliefs/ feelings on to Alex here.

And never interacting with your children makes you a deadbeat dad

@@danielconway7190 Hi Daniel. Do you come from a Christian background?

@@davidli1588 yup

Interesting point. I would say one reason might be that so many atheists are so agnostic o they are not defending a proposition. But also I would say that everyone should theoretically live one’s life as if certain premises are true. So I think Christians should think how their lives would change in many ways if they were secular humanists or Buddhists or Muslim, etc. And not just how the mind or thoughts would change but slso their feelings and actions. I do not think anyone has to actually live their life as if a position they do not hold is true but at least think through the full implications if it was true.

Please give an example, then, of how, for instance, Africans were lifted up, from between 1500 AD and 1900 AD, @Peli_can Dude . Or women in Deuteronomy 21:13. Give those 'experiences' equal weight, thanks. Acts of kindness are UNIVERSAL - and not owned by any creed or religion. They do not feed 5000 people using food initially not there, and do not turn water into wine. And they are 'saved' from what, and what jeopardized them, initially?

@@chrissonofpear1384 You may need to clarify what it is you want me to do. I can only assume things from this post that may or may not be what you are looking for. Deuteronomy 21 10 When you go to war against your enemies and the Lord your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives, 11 if you notice among the captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her, you may take her as your wife. 12 Bring her into your home and have her shave her head, trim her nails *13 and put aside the clothes she was wearing when captured. After she has lived in your house and mourned her father and mother for a full month, then you may go to her and be her husband and she shall be your wife.* 14 If you are not pleased with her, let her go wherever she wishes. You must not sell her or treat her as a slave, since you have dishonored her. Now from that you chose to post the following... _13 and put aside the clothes she was wearing when captured. After she has lived in your house and mourned her father and mother for a full month, then you may go to her and be her husband and she shall be your wife._ This section is titled *Marrying a Captive Woman* in the NIV but may be worded differently in others. It is very straight forward but does require some understanding and context of the era this was written. Captives were not necessarily slaves and were often taken after a battle that left many people dead so the captives were possibly young children or women since most of the dead were men unless they did a complete sweep of all humans. In this case they were referring to women who were either virgin girls or adults and the rules for them were actually very clear. They are not to touch them for a month to let them mourn after which time they become the man's wife. As a wife they are bound to by their tradition to honor their wives but in the case of foreign women who are not brought up in their traditions there may be compatibility issues that result in finding them difficult to endure. They are attractive, not subservient to their husbands and not accustomed to their traditions so they may be incompatible for a number of reasons. The Israelites were short on women but they were not to steal them from their neighbors and were actually very strict rules about who they could marry (what tribes or peoples). There are other parts of the Bible that outline exactly why some women were not good mates for Israelite men due to their own traditions and religious beliefs. Some worshiped idols and had peculiar rituals that God warned them not to take up. Aside from that...if the man finds the woman incompatible then he is to let her go free and not sell her. His taking her as his wife means they had sex and the woman was not suitable for marriage or sale under those conditions. This is not the same world we grew up in where traditional values in most societies (Christian) respect the women and they are protected by laws. Now the idea is that men were not to just have their way with these captives because the Israelites had very strict rules about sex and marriage. They were to avoid sex before marriage (which this rule follows) and they were supposed to honor their wives for as long as they lived (under ideal circumstances) but they were usually arranged marriages. They pretty much grew up with the people they usually married but due to shortages of women and other circumstances they had to outsource their supply of marriage ready females. This, by the way, was actually far better than their neighbors who would go out and capture women and rape them and often leave them for dead of mistreat them as prisoners all the while letting them service the other men. Don't believe me? Read up on it... _Please give an example, then, of how, for instance, Africans were lifted up, from between 1500 AD and 1900 AD_ Do you mean the African Slave Trade? You want me to compare these two when they are exact opposites with the slaves being mostly male for working farms? Remember that slavery wasn't invented by the Jews or Christians. It was widespread and practiced by every race that has ever lived from what I've read including Native American Indians who often went to war against other Native Indians and did pretty much what everyone else did. Please explain that and how attacking the Bible is making your case.

@@peli_candude554 Interesting, in it's way - but I think we can strongly argue that those in Exodus 21:20, and Leviticus 25:46, certainly WERE slaves - even 'for life' ones. And that the distinction was astonishingly vague, if there was one, even by 1500 AD - in certain parts of Christendom. And slavery was ENDORSED by parts of Christendom after that, and even by priests - a number of times. It was also not ended, very quickly by them. Never mind the human element, there - what of the divine? Achan and his sons, and GRANDKIDS received INSTANT 'justice' for events in Joshua 7:24. So did the man in Numbers 15:32, those in 16:27 and 16:46, and in Jeremiah 2:32 - I gather. So what brought about a sudden delay, on these much more major matters? And what of those women captives in Numbers 31:18 - who were certainly implied not to be of ANY AGE that could possibly give complete consent? And what do we mean by 'incompatible' and on what grounds - and with how much evidence or testimony? Recall Numbers 5:11, too, possibly. Even nations that peacefully submitted, in Deuteronomy, were it seems, implied to have to do some forced labor - to a degree no Hebrew would, and with not always the same guarantees of Jubilee period liberation, it seems.

@@chrissonofpear1384 Slaves were used by most societies to do their hard labor and farming for food. Without slaves many societies would have collapsed. Most of the slaves in the Bible that the Isrealites used were fed, clothed, and were protected against severe abuse by their masters in the same laws that you are quoting here. in fact, there was one particular law that told the owners that if they killed their workers they would be punished with death. There is absolutely no disputing that these laws were to protect them against the harshness that some owners were capable of with the exception of those owners outside of the Israelite camps. They had absolutely no restrictions on beating, selling, raping or abusing their workers. Why do I not hear the hue and cry of all the atheists that should be trumpeting those societies? Other than the obvious fact that most of those other societies didn't make it and collapsed or were destroyed because God was NOT on their side. Where did they all go or why did they die out? It was a very rough and tumble world and looking back to the time before Abraham left Mesopotamia actually made me beleive that God was a very real and present force in the world because the nation that Abraham built eventually eradicated slavery in their own tribes. Jesus didn't come to set the slaves free of their chains other than to encourage them to work with their masters. His actual mission was to embody God the father and demonstrate the love that he had for us. That took a long time to mature to the point where more people were experiencing freedom, financial stability, reduced persecution and harsh work conditions even though today we see some 30 millions people doing slave labor or being treated with less dignity and respect than they deserve. Slavery has been banned since the 1960s by the majority of countries in the world but still exists because of closed countries with dictators ruling and controlling everything. It's called communism and it threatens our freedoms and rights to believe what we want to believe. And part of that threat includes destroying religion because every major atheist attempt to control people included removing their freedom of religion. You can argue that till the cows come home and the crickets become your staple food but it is fact. I might address the other items you mentioned but I prefer to suggest you simply listen to some of the apologists who have made many videos debunking these claims. Typing is fun for me but I prefer to let those who have the resources handle the bulk of the explaining as that is where I learned that your arguments are explained to my satisfaction. I was like you asking the same questions...then I started listening and it all made sense.

@@peli_candude554 Prove the ones in Numbers 31:18 were, too, I suppose. Also, there's no need to rely on slaves, if you have special powers, angels, etc - to help. But even leaving all that aside, some laws, cease, to serve any useful role, after a certain point. And must be revoked. We are left in NO DOUBT how Jehovah sees eating shellfish, mixing fabrics, or gathering wood on Sabbath - nor in Achan (and his family's) hiding of loot... and the INSTANT punishment, that resulted. But slavery seems dealt with much more vaguely. Both in Deuteronomy, and the 'for life' bits of Leviticus, and in Exodus 21:20. But also, in the POST time of Jesus, where He never fully condemned it, and nor did Paul. And no fully clear answer, was even uniformly made known, even by 1500 AD - in much of Christendom? So I do find it somewhat worrying, at least. It is slavery WITHIN Christendom, I am most concerned with, here. Most of us do not want to destroy religion totally - although there more than a few 'mutant strains' of many of them that can take a flying leap, for all I care. Both on Shariah law, in extreme parts of the USA, some dodgy examples in Africa from missionaries - and others. If they will not police themselves, what then? And what widest hope does Matthew 7:18 and Romans 9:12, give us? Or 8:30?