Troy and Doc, I love these videos. I've said it in probably every one of these videos, but every time Doc opens his mouth EVERYONE in the archery and bowhunting community has an opportunity to benefit from it. There is a saying about experience... "Doc has forgotten more about bowhunting than most of us know." While it's true that Doc definitely knows more than most about the topic, it was apparent to me after our phone conversations that this man forgets NOTHING. I have never known anyone; prior to meeting and hanging out with you lot, that took such a scientific approach to the sport of bowhunting. Thank you for doing the work and supplying not only the results, but explaining why and how to repeat and audit the info for ourselves. Miss you guys, keep up the great work. God bless and happy hunting!
You guys are doing great work. I feel lucky and thankful to be able to listen to such knowledeable and experienced bowhunters who are willing to share data so we can be a better bowhunters. Thank you! both very much.
Thanks Troy and Ed As a dinosaur (as Troy would say) and a person with 64 years of archery experience I can't wait to see each and every one of your videos KEEP THEM coming
Idk if you guys have locust trees down there but here you’ll find yourself stuck in a bunch of rose shoots and locust trees which huge thorns. Side note I put my first new arrow through a deer the other day. Pass through so I didn’t learn a thing except heart shots make easy blood trails and short tracks.
@RanchFairy - Shark teeth have a secondary purpose, which is to SAW. Thats why they are wider and serrated. To grab a hold to bite sizes pieces of food and "shake" or saw it lose. Wider penetrators are better at withstanding side pressure like a sawing motion, which is less common in penetrating broadheads.
Consider presenting a diagram of the force components based on sine/cosine blade angle versus the angle of shear all in its relationship to the blade material and units of force that edge encounters statically or dynamically for fun. The unit force applied to the broadhead edge materials would provide a valuable estimation of force on the blade as a whole. A lot of little math bits
Such great info. and accurate info. I do not understand why some people don't get it. You don't have to be an Engineer to understand Physics. I cannot find the Tuffhead broadheads you were showing in your video, are they available anywhere?
at 12:00 you hit on something that I have talked about many times and I believe will be the key to breaking the "Anti Ed" theories and that is energy conservation. It is such a simple concept and energy is something all archers have in common but those with Ashby arrow will conserve much more than light setups with mechanical heads. I would love to see a test of retained energy. Everything to this point has been anecdotal in terms of speed erosion. If you could prove the percent of energy dump with bad arrow flight and mechanical head deployment, you certainly could turn some heads.
@@AdamCooper-qg1oh So my testing in a lab radar is not anecdotal. But to your point that is from the bow to the target NOT through the target. So the fact is - it takes a ton of work no one wants to do. The mech and industry guys are NOT gonna prove their heads eat energy like a starving man at a buffet. And - we haven’t figured out how to efficiently do this. Lastly - there’s no money in it. So no one but ABF will even think about it Oh - and animals….we need lots of them to do this right. Surrogate targets will not replicate anything but The results of a surrogate target
It’s easy test yourself with a couple of chronographs have one at the bow and one at the target shoot through both with your light setup all the way up to a 650 since people use this as their cutoff point and start point you’ll see and find the best arrow setup for you to use. This is not anecdotal at all. We know light things erode speed faster from boats, cars, bikes, motorcycles, planes, jets, bullets arrows and bolts. Light goes faster it starts faster but it also erodes faster too, if you have improper flight that erodes it more too again seen in everything.
So why does tuff head only make the long style in 300 + grains? 125, 150 short and wide? Because can't get the metal, durable, edge bevel right at those weights? I've got some VPA I picked up for a steel 🎉of a price. Haven't used them. Been successful with 4 blades for 30+ years. Recently 215 hog, 4 blade Grim Reaper micro hades 125. I sent you emails. Keep on sharing. Thanks for the content. ❤
This is a very interesting topic. Does the need for mechanical advantage increase exponentially with the size & type of animal being hunted? Whitetail vs Elk vs Alaskan Grizzly or Moose? Is there a way to determine, measure, & compare a rate of mechanical advantage?
Bigger animals require deeper penetration, so obviously it's better to use a high mechanical advantage head on them. You determine it by comparing the length of the head to its width. 3:1 would mean that the head is three times longer than it's wide. That would be a high mechanical advantage broadhead, while some mechanicals are wider than they are long after deployement.
@@michaelcollins432 That’s a fact - the RF head. I have had them “stretch” it as much as possible. I am so committed to making it as long as possible (at 200 grains) that I WONT sell 150 and 125 - which makes me gas $$ and they would sell at 3X the 200 grain. Because The 150 and 125 type heads have much lower MA - they get short and blunt.
Debating on switching to mechanicals for white tail deer. Been using single bevel for the past 3 years and blood trails aren’t all that. I do like the sharpness of a single bevel but blood trails just make big deer a lot easier to find
My worst blood trails were from mechanical heads because I didn't get that exit hole. Also I have noticed the internal damage is greater from my two blade single bevel over a rage or similar head. I think that is from the blade bending, breaking, and losing its sharpness on entry. I won't ever go to a mechanical for four legged prey but I might try 3 or 4 blade heads depending on the setup.
@@tray22mechanicals are better for turkeys and small game imo. I would recommend trying a four blade like the tooth of the arrow. Troy is right about "mechanical" advantage, but those heads don't fly straight either. Show me ED or Troy hitting the ten ring at 70 yards with one of those 4 inch heads.
@Steve-ev6vx I don't shoot past 30 yards at deer. They move too much and it is way too thick where I hunt. I have had to let deer get further away from me to get a shot when they were under my stand. I love my two blade cutthroat single bevel broadheads. They zip through the deer so fast.
I know this is kind of off topic, but in the high volume of animals harvested in the testing, have you noticed any difference in blood trails from a double bevel vs a single bevel assuming the rest of the factors of the browdhead is the same? ( 2 blade, high mechanical advantage broadhead)
@@markosnionakis7777 Ed may chime in. I have found no correlation with any PREDICTABILITY for any broadhead platform. The animals are so variable in their structure, every hit is different, each individual shot is a single event with its own circumstances. I will admit - when mechs work and deploy and blades don’t break off (those are UNPREDICTABLE) it CAN be amazing. But the structural integrity unpredictability negates the “one off amazing” performance. This we are back to every individual live hunting shot is its own set of individual circumstances
It's seems like it's larger holes vs insurance policy. There's no question that the mechanical advantage broad head is going to penetrate better. Is there a balance between the two?
i like the idea of mechanical advantage, i just don't like how they steer arrows much better. Does orienting the head flat (horizontal) improve the chance of not planing as much at the distance of 40 to 60 yards?
No. The arrow should still rotate in the air for accuracy. Combined with sufficient fletching and margin of stability, that is how you prevent or minimize planing.
Why have the 3:1 MA 200/300 grain Tuffhead & Meathead broadheads been discontinued? Where can we find high quality, high mechanical advantage broadheads in the 200/300 grain category?
@@laurenchapple8244 Lack of demand - sheer lack of people wanting them. I am surprised - but that’s the facts man. Businesses don’t spend money to sit things on a shelf
Excess friction from the extra surface area would do more harm than good. If you had a target with a very, very low coefficient of friction but a high density you might see a benefit from going longer, but I can't even imagine what that target would look like.
Were Native American broadheads long and slender? I don't think they were. They sure shot a bunch of animals! Don't bash me, I'm just saying. They are correct and I am sure if they knew they would have made them long and slender!! Thanks Troy and Dr Ed for all you do!
The only issue I have with your depiction of the problem is that there's more than two dimensions on a broad head. And you need a mechanical advantage along the edge, that's for sure, but what good is it if your broadhead is thiiiiiick? Further i wonder: Since you both said it, the animal gets a vote: And i guess that means you need something else than a sharp edge and a high mechanical advantage when you hit bone, because then you want splitting rather than cutting?
@@jonabub Ok - I can’t read sarcasm or lack thereof so I am going to assume you’re asking actual questions - honestly. So - the adult broadheads we are talking about are two blade and around .07 thousands thick (give or take 15% depending on manufacturer) It is traveling on the shot line in the direction of travel creating ONLY a .07 thousands thick edge. Very efficient. The animals MOVE. So you need a perfectly flying - heavy projectile with an adult broadhead in the event you DID not Miss. the arrow is on target but the animal moves and it hits something you didn’t intend. We all advocate for a perfect hit in the ribs, low and on the crease. Until the animals vote - “plan B” lethality arrow system becomes critical.
@@RanchFairy I wasn't being sarcastic, but i'm no native so maybe i missed something that made you think that i was. What i meant with the mechanical advantage is that after the tissue is cut, the rest of the arrow's thickness needs to make way through the freshly cut hole. So the thickness of the broadhead, whether it has more blades in a different angle, whether it's a few mm thick or thicker to make the blade heavier and harder, all that plays into the factor "mechanical advantage" i think. Maybe i remember it wrong, but i think Luke Palmer mentioned a similar thought on his channel. So i'm wondering sind the pointier the angle of the broadhead, the thicker the blade overall need to be so it wouldn't break or bend. So there is also a second angle offset 90 degrees to the blade angle that plays into the mechanical advantage question. I realise the edge of the blade is very thin, but that's a different matter than the thickness that needs to be pushed through the hole. And also since we plan for hitting the ideal spot but want redundancy in case the animal votes to present some bone: We still need some less flat angle to split the bone, since bone splitting costs less of our momentum than cutting a hole for the whole broadhead? I mean, soft tissue probably behaves a bit like a curtain with a slit, so the thick part of the blade just moves it aside, but bone presses onto the newly cut hole with every muscle attached to it, so it's probably best if the bone is split entirely instead of just cut in a slit by the blade? Isn't splitting the reason wood axes have shallower angles, so that they'd split the wood rather than cut it and get stuck?
@@RanchFairy And also huge thanks for responding. I mentioned you the other day in a video of some Europeans trying to analyse what guillotine design was best for cutting / splitting since their experiments reminded me of some questions that you were also seeking to answer. Don't remember the name of the channel right now, but i could check if you don't find it.
Wow this sounds like such a smart thing to do, use technology from 1980’s and put it with the updated technology of today, take a 340 fps bow designed by the best engineers and then take an arrow combo that was at its best in the 80’s and put them together so that you can watch your arrows hit the dirt but wait you are in luck you can carry a range finder and range that animal every time he takes a step because you have sight pins so spaced out you only have room for about 2 and you are limited to 40 yards but rest assured that when you miss that deer or he steps out of the way before the arrow gets to him you will have great penetration in the ground but it’s ok because the great fisherman that doesn’t know how to even properly tune a bow and the old guy that probably hasn’t shot a bow in 20 years says it’s the best thing to do I mean obviously these guys know more than the engineers that have designed the new arrows and bows we have today I just wish they would have had the tooth fairy and the 90 year old with the cigar bigger than his head design my Hoyt just think of how much better it would have been with real brainiacs like you two 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Imagine writing that long of a reply and never bothering to look to see if the testing has been updated recently with the modern equipment you are praising.
