If it is true that loona cost about $10 million (usd) to debut then they will not make money for a long long time. it’s unfortunate. Chuu has said she has not received any income last year (assuming 2021, around PTT along with the debt crisis again) and it is even more surprising and heartbreaking considering she is in so much variety shows and cfs. Probably meaning chuus hard work is going towards their debt. And if they cannot even pay a member or MEMBERS, can u imagine their bills for the company building, the members for their headpieces, stage sets, staff members etc?
agreed 100%, loona is by no means an unknown group but they’re also not successful enough yet to be able to pay off that massive debt 😔 i really just feel terrible for everyone who isn’t receiving proper pay, both members and staff. tbh, i can understand why chuu would choose to sue bbc, i would be hurt if i did as many cfs as she did and received no pay for it
@@operationkep1er Yes, the company should have made sure they were financially stable enough to handle a group. And 10 million already just to debut then is so much. They have had a debt crisis three times already. It’s not looking good.
Omg if the group as big as loona dont receive their pay yet why the company bother to make a girl group. A business should get profit to stay for long time. That’s just not make any sense to me, so sad for loona😢
That's why I like JYPE. They don't have trainee debt. They say they see it as an investment, and that they believe in their trainees. To them a failed trainee is just part of the expenses they expect to make. I believe JYP himself said something about how important it is to support the children who are putting in their time and childhood in training, and that worst case scenario, they helped feed, train, educate, and provide a good environment for a child to grow in, even if they don't debut them in the end. That's why all the food is organic and healthy, they use green energy, they require sex ed, they have psychologists etc.
SM, YG and HYBE are the same as JYP, it's because those companies are rich and have enough money to invest in their trainees, like HYBE and YG say they invest 100K each for their debut trainees. But small companies can't be sure if their group will make them bankrupt or not. It's expensive to maintain idol groups expenses. Money is the most important.
It's not just JYP, but all big entertainment company ( JYP,SM,YG and HYBE ) This company have money, power, and resources for having a lot of trainee without debt, but the process of being pick as a trainee in there is like 99% waayy more hard then being trainee in small company, and your chance of being debut is wayy more good in small company than big company. Small company don't have that money,power and resources like big entertainment does, they only try their best to debut a group and maybe someday their group will successful like GFriend, Brave girl, girl's day.
Thats why they make multiple groups with shit tons amount of members that will comeback 100 times in their 7 years contracts to squeeze out the money out of them.
Everyone should go the Mamamoo road. They did as many festivals as they could as those were split between them and company. They managed to pay it off in 2 years I believe and now have a say in their music
gfriend did this as well. that's why they went viral for their performance in festivals even when the floor is slippery, or there's lot of bugs in the stage, or raining a lot, or even to the point of exhaustion. they break even in 2017 and has been earning since. mamamoo and gfriend were one the groups with the highest pay for performing in festivals. but i guess a lot of companies lost a lot during the pandemic due to this as well since festivals were cancelled
LOONA just went on a tour I fear the company is just keeping the money the girls have earned. They should’ve made the money back a long time ago. Even less-famous groups make a lot of money. Most successful groups die because of greedy companies, which I believe is unfortunately the case for LOONA
@@Hakakuno Loona's company just sucks at managing their money. They didn't need to spend so much money on their predebut stuff. They shouldn't have fired the main people who got Loona popular with their unique concept and their storyline. They should do more to promote the less popular members. They could honestly do better to fundraise. They could sell basic merch for fans. They should have absolutely kissed ass for their main moneymakers like Chuu and Heejin. They have so many members they should try to involve the members more in the production side of things. All of that would help reduce the financial burden they've put on themselves. But their management just sucks too bad.
STAYC did the exact things and get paid in less than 2 years. even before they start attending festival (which just recently allowed again after covid). and now they are the most demanded idol to be invited on concert/festival. You can be successful outside big company/ex produce as long as you have good songs, competent company and of course, talented and beautiful members. but yeah, competent company is the rare one nowadays.
That's why the BIG 3 companies are so appreciated by trainees. Because you know once you debut, you get paid straight away. But I understand why smaller companies still goes by the trainee debt system. They pay Classes, housing and food for years for their trainees in hope of said trainees to become stars in the future and bring in more money to the company than what were spent on them. At the end of the day, it's a business. Everyone know being an artist or idol is not a stable job. You have to do it by passion or else you'll easily get overwhelmed.
Actually it isn't true apparently Twice didn't start getting paid after 1 or 2 years into their career when they paid their debt but afterwards they have been earning money as usual
@@Beuty-Box Then maybe it's not the case in JYP. I remember YG trainees talking about it and saying they wanted to join the company because you're considered a YG employee from debut and therefore you get paid straight away. Every company works with different systems though but it's still safer to debut in a big company even if you don't earn a lot at the beginning. I know SM gives some SM shares to its artists that they can later sell if they want. Twice were really successful, that's why they were able to pay back in only two years. The more members you have, the longer it takes to pay back
@@Beuty-Box It was changed sometime after Twice's debut, if I recall correctly. Big 3 no longer have trainee's debt, but some of the older groups had to go through it, Twice included. 4th gen will debute debt free
No. Completely wrong. Don’t employ people you can’t pay, simple as that. Training is not payment, its an investment. They are giving away the costs of their investment to their employees to minimize risk to themselves. This is like you working at a banking firm where you give loans to people, but the bank doesn’t pay you to work there, instead the loans are in your name, until they are payed off by the buyer. From that moment on, some of the extra profit from interest is yours.
It’s really funny people are defending the big 3 so hard because there’s no confirmation that they don’t do trainee debt. They got this info from Wikipedia, which, if you go to the article and click on its’ references, it uses an article about a RU-vid video of someone saying this. It’s a former idol but they’re from a small company. They wouldn’t know. If you seriously believe the big 3 aren’t doing shady shit with their trainees, you’re blind.
@@stohess I agree with you but with all the merch they did recently and the tour they should've gotten at least gotten a small amount especially since they've gotten so overworked during the tour :(
@@operationkep1er yup, and it's sad that something like "Dahyun skipping Lisa's ad" can generate a huge protest; compared to terrible injustices in the industry like these contracts and other things...
@@whatever_voyez5123 jaden jeong was the mastermind & creative director of loona from debut till mid 2019. He has worked with few artists as creative director like lovelyz, ladies code, loona, OnlyOneOf etc...
While their debt is high, i think the agency is just also taking way more off their salaty than they should. Remember Chuu sued them for not letting her have money and freedom and won They've never been paid for anything, and Chuu is probably the only making a tiny bit money with her solo schedules (she has a yt channel and songs in *her* name) I'm happy that orbits and kpop stans have decided to boycott bbc, it's fkn deserved
This is why most of the trainees want to debut in big companies like yg, sm, jyp, hybe etc. I remember a yg staff said they spent 100,000$ every trainee per year but they don't have to pay it once they debut or leave the company
knowing what jaden did to loona, I worry for tripleS. I won't be supporting the nfts aspect of tripleS, I think it's just another way of profit. I wouldn't know how to feel if that type of method becomes the norm in kpop.
@@IvyTheAmazingSerene It's the principle of it though. Supporting the concept of selling nfts fans to support their faves when most nfts are scams and in general are a super unreliable purchase. Aside from the environmental problem there's also the unregulated aspect of it. It's unprotected and pump and dump schemes are so common it's almost always expected. Especially after that huge crypto leak that just happened. It's just not something I'd want to encourage which sucks cause I actually really liked Generation so I have a generally good opinion of TripleS.
another problem with tripleS is the fact that they set such a high album selling goal (100,00) which is messed up because they are under a unknown company’s and that’s a marketing strategy that’s just not gonna work and it’s gonna make the girls look bad
I think they should implement a system where a percentage goes paying off the debit debt and the rest goes to the idol. They’re still workers/human and deserve pay
Trainee debt kind of blows my mind. What happens if by the end of their contract they still haven't made much of a dent in their debt, are they still obligated to pay it off even if they aren't idols anymore? It also seems kind of ridiculous to make the idols responsible for that debt if they're not the ones doing the marketing, brand selling, music creation and dance. How well a idol group does is completely dependent on the company's resources. If the company doesn't know how to market them well or give them catchy songs, it's not the group's fault if they can't get more attention and bring in more revenue. This sort of company practice just seems really sketchy, because all the other staff members and the company itself is definitely getting paid during this time
Sometimes companies make them pay back debt even after the group has disbanded and all the members moved on to other jobs. You’re right, it is really sketchy, and thankfully it doesn’t happen nearly as much as it did 10 years ago.
Trainee debt isn’t a thing with every company, mainly smaller companies with less money (like Loona’s company), and generally just the shittier companies. Not every small company does that though, but it’s more often smaller ones. Like JYP and SM don’t have trainee debt, for example, because they already have plenty of money.
Big companies like YG, JYP, HYBE don't ask for money since they invested in them I think JYP explained that in one of his interviews. YG also has the same concept that is why they can't debut unless they have real talent.
I am sure big companies like YG and JYP doesn't have this "trainee dept". Once you debut you will also automatically earn some money too. If I remember it correctly, former 2ne1 Minzy was able to afford to buy a property in just a year on their debut bec of a lot of money they got that time.
Just think about it this way, if a group like Black pink or BTS start selling NFTs, since their fandoms is huge, they can sell at much as the want. Then, when lots of these NFTs start to circulate in the market, it’s become a form of currency(since they hold value and it’s tradable). Guess where the power lies? That’s right the company that generates these NFTs. Remember just 1 Tweet from Elon Musk pushed the price of Doge coin up 300%. This system will enrich the one who is in power (has the power to manipulate the price of these NFTs) while the general public are just clueless consumer. Also: There is no way the Korean government would allow a token to grow strong enough to become a currency, so no this is not viable.
NFTs as any crypto is not reliable and it’s a bubble that is destined to pop eventually. They only hold “value” because people are told they’re valuable. The crypto bubble just popped recently and many people went bankrupt because of it. They are also strenuous on the environment and do as much damage as the meat industry for something that technically doesn’t even exist. BP and BTS would make money but NFTs definitely won’t catch on because of those factors and they’d also lose many fans over it. It’s not worth it.
i love loona they work so hard and are very talented they deserve better (they are getting what they deserve soon!!) i think tripleS’s plan is risky not thing to do with the members but jaden jeong sucks
That's why they respect so much to what they do.. It's actually good for them at some point . For viewers, they are idols, but in reality, they are just workers of a company..
The problem is too that group activities get split amount the group. So having 12 members is a problem for each member paying off their debt. I’ve also heard other artists say they never see how much they owe or are given any kind of a “pay stub” to show much they made so companies can keep artists in debt.
It's not actually all kpop . Depends on what company you are in. Companies when signing the contract tell you how you will get pay and if you choosed those companies obhiously you will not get paid enough.
yep, jyp/sm/yg/hybe all no longer have trainee debt so they aren't included in this discussion. but that's the exception and not the norm unfortunately, so even relatively bigger groups like loona are still saddled with trainee debt
i think the triples concept is good, but they shouldn’t do it with nfts. they should have special photocards/albums or something, but overall i think it’s a great idea to have something that gives members money immediately!!
Im pretty sure every idol has a trainee debt to pay off and i mean they have to pay it debt and there clearly doing good if they can afford to wear clothes and have phones and being able to eat and ect so even if they don't have money the company is Still taking care of them
Looks can be deceiving. There are videos of idols that explain that many of them work In various places while in the industry to make money. Some of the cloths are either borrowed or donated to them. Or even their parents giving them food and money.
Not all NFTS are bad and energy consuming, there are many different methods when making an NFT and Modhaus is a very wealthy company so I would hope they aren’t using a very energy consuming method
I am going to be honest, this 'indebted servitude' system has been used across countless industries and it's never been right. It was and is especially prevalent in the Arts from Geisha to Old Hollywood to the western Music industry. There should only be a small percentage taken off their pay for these 'debts' and I completely support tripleS taking care of themselves and their own. I am not a fan of NFT's but if that's the route they must go then that's the route they must go.
If the fans love their idols that much and hate nfts that much, then they should rally for better conditions so that the idols can actually make money.
It’s even worse for Loona. They get the smaller percentage from performance fees and they pay half of production costs. So they could owe money when they make a comeback.
fans have much more power than they think they do. u are the ones keeping these companies massive headquarters lights on, u have the power to change that
it’s like Golden Child. they debuted in august of 2017, and earlier this year, one of the members, Jangjun, revealed he and the other 9 members haven’t been payed once, and the only money he’s earned has been from work outside of his group, like hosting shows and stuff like that ://
"Noo i don't want LOONA to disband :((" But isn't that a good thing ? They keep getting mistreated and they don't even get payed, They work really hard but don't even get payed or anything ..
not the nftssssss😭😭 i feel like the idea of them getting a percentage of merch and stuff using their likeness even as trainees/newly debuted idols is a good idea (seems like it should be a given tho lol) but like.. why nfts sighhh. i didnt know tripleS was doing that :///
It happens again and again that idols don't get paid fairly. Happened to b.a.p. back then which was one reason they disbanded (not rly official but leaved the company)
I knew about something like this when I played idol game called Ensemble Stars back then. So... it's true that idols were paying off their debt when they debut because debuting a group cost so much 😭
Honestly I feel like the companies should just do 80/20 with 80% of their earnings going to paying off the debt and 20% going to the idol. Or even 90/10 since they probably make a lot 10% would still be a lot of live off of.
My jaw literally dropped at those news. I can't believe they didn't get paid a single won yet after years working!!! That would have to be illegal, the more I know the more disgusted i get about some kpop companies 😭
I was shocked to learn this too. The trainee debt system is unbelievably shady and should be illegal. Some forms of human trafficking work the same way. Promise a job overseas, immediately take the passport and tell the victim they owe money for the expense of arranging transport, and then take everything they earn to pay the “debt”. The victim never sees any of the money, and the “debt” gets bigger because of food and housing. The Korean government needs to step in and regulate this heavily. It should be illegal for the company to enforce the debt themselves by directly taking all income. Also, who determines how much the debt is? Is the company allowed to take every single expense (such as CEO salary) and call it “trainee debt”? If the company decides to put more money into pre-debut promotions, is that also “trainee debt”? The whole system is a huge corrupt exploitation.
@@moomoobebe Where did you read Blockberry or any company were promising jobs? Believe it or not, some trainees take this life, knowing the risks in hope of being successful. I would assume its like college, education for money.
@@acidspittingllama1865 Seriously, not that tired old argument about "knowing the risks". Yes, we all take risks and meet hardships. But there's no reason a healthy society should tolerate abusive situations. Healthy societies enact and enforce laws about food safety standards, fairness of contracts, trade descriptions, working standards, vehicle safety, etc etc etc. Healthy societies are not happy to sit there, like you, watching blatant abuse take place and muttering about "knowing the risks'. Healthy societies take action to reduce unreasonable risks, and to deter and punish willful abuse. I was not implying that BBC promised jobs and took away people's passports. I was comparing it with a situation that's analogous but not exactly the same. I'd have thought that was obvious. Your college education comparison is actually quite apt. Some colleges do deliver the education that they promise. Some colleges turn out to be fraudulent. Victims get hugely into debt for nothing. A healthy society does its best to deal with it by punishing the people responsible for the fraud. It may be too late for some of the victims, but a healthy society takes action to try to deter and punish this kind of fraud.
@@moomoobebe Can these institutions do better. Yes. Can society enforce these institutions to do better. Sure. But what's the solution? Provide one cause its doesn't make sense for investors to invest and not get or want their money back.
u just made a statement saying that YeoJin reported that they didnt get paid since debut, but u didnt tell us why LOONA is poor, then directing the topic to a summary of a particular cryptocurrency.
This is what I dont understand, even the Australian Government only takes a portion of your income to pay off HECS debt (student loan set by the gov so you don't have to worry about paying upfront for most diplomas and all bachelor degrees), and they only a take a portion based on what you earn, so if you dont earn enough in a pay cycle, they dont take any. That's how it should be done.
remember to boycott!! dont buy merch and dont stream on spotify & youtube or any other official website!! you can watch and listen to loona on unofficial non streaming sites!!
Blockberry invested a lot. Their strategy of doing solos and subunits prior to debut costs a lot of money. They thought it will get them big returns but the whole group's debut wasn't that successful. Until now they are struggling to recuperate that cost
I think they shouldn’t make all of the stuff automatically go to pay off, maybe like 25% or 50% or 75% if they make a lot. They need some money to live and will repay you! Unless if you pay everything for them (examples: food, rent, outfits, stage, etc).
honestly if tripleS is making money, like get that bag besties. im not a fan of NFTs but in this day and age to be in debt like that, getting exploited for your dreams is extremely fucked up. so yuh get them bags tripleS
