Why isn't Criticism Consistent between KH2 and KH3? | KH Talks 

"I don't even remember last week's topic" Me: *Remembers B's fate of the unknown fangirling*

I feel like that's why I liked hades paradox cups because it made you don combat differently and use all of you options

I feel like general moment to moment satisfaction in kh3 is just.. weird. Like I didn't play kh1 for the combat, I was having fun exploring, collecting, and whacking shit lol. Kh2 was the combat all the way with the story beats. Kh1 and 2 have very different identities. I don't feel that sense of identity with kh3. It feels like they tried to combine kh1 and 2s strongest aspects and fell a bit short on both. That's why we still have fun with kh3, the soul and foundation is definitely there. It just wasn't its own thing comparatively speaking. That's my unasked for opinion.

KH2 came out in 2005 and was the third title in the series (2nd main title), developed in an era where patches weren't a mainstay of the industry, and when action games like it were still not as common (same year as DMC3, which set the standard for the genre). KH3 came out in 2019 and was the... 10th or so game in the series, and developed in an era where patches are commonly used for balance and fixes, and when action games like it are much more common and have come a long way in their design. KH3 has far fewer excuses for its terrible balance, design choices, and issues with the engine.

The main criticism I had with KH3 (in comparison to KH1 & 2) When a franchise continues over time new things are added and old things are taken away. However, if the old thing that was taken away was good, it should be replaced with something similiar or something better. Makes sense right? KH3 had a lot of positive quality of life changes, but there were some trademark things from KH1 and KH2 that were absent completely in KH3 and it hurt the game for me. Unfortunately, ReMIND did not add them. Some of the things include... -No Coliseum (The Battlegates are NOT the same. They were half-assed). -Collectables (Like Trinity marks or the Crowns from FM, Torn pages from Pooh World). -Lack of Original Hub Worlds. KH3 only has ONE and it was nerfed to oblivion. (This really affects the pacing of the game IMO). -Story having good pacing (The start of the game was great. The end of the game was fun. The middle of the game was horrid). ReMIND added a lot of post game content, but really didn't change the base game at all.

Animations in KH3 are just less snappy and impactful than kh1/2 and the game feels worse to play. The game hinges more on the pleasure of more enemies at once with bigger attacks like a Musou game. When a game just FEELS worse, it's harder to quantify and explain so we critique the other aspects of the game more to find out why.

My big problem with KH3 is mainly with it's mob fights and it's huge numbers and arenas The thing is that in KH3 if you choose to not use your big AOE links/attractions then you are stuck chasing each heartless in a huge room to combo them individually and then repeat. That makes every encounter last longer than I'd like, and the longer it lasts the more likely I am of being sniped and one shot from something offscreen and that means you have to repeat the same large room with the previous 3 or 4 encounters before the one you died in. It's more time consuming and frustrating than it is fun So every mob fight is cluttered, enemies are spread all over the place and it's hard to tell what is going on most of the time, and all the while you have your heart in your mouth because there is always that chance of randomly getting one shot from off screen at every moment. So what can you do that solves all those problems at once? Links (and also some Shotlocks I guess). they kill all enemies fast and without risk of getting one shot from off screen. Why would I bother with any other option when all the other ones are more time consuming and frustrating? In KH2 nearly every fight happens in a smaller room with smaller numbers, it's easier to tell how many enemies there are and see the problem enemies and keep track of them, that makes it easier and more consistent to deal with enemies with all your options. Yes, there is always one option that will be better for each encounter, but the other options are almost as effective. That is the big difference between KH2 and KH3 that makes one really fun for me and the other not so much. In KH2 I feel free to try whatever I feel like at the moment in almost every fight because every option feels useful, while in KH3 I feel annoyed when I fight mobs because of the huge numbers and rooms and all the issues they create, every option that isn’t links feels so risky and underpowered against mobs, so I just end up pressing the skip mob fight button tl;dr: KH3 has way too many enemies in huge spaces and crowd control isn't very good outside of links, especially on crit where you basically have no magic

I didn't truly learn to love Kh3's combat until I realized its based around chaos It's all about imploring constant sporadic movement in order to avoid and counter large swarms that attack from all angles. The true fun for me comes out of trying to do that as quickly and as stylishly as possible, like a Devil May Cry game If you look at the game from that perspective, then the mechanics of the spells and Sora's mechanics in general make a lot more sense it's all about finding the best abilities, weapons and items suited for zipping around the battlefield looking as cool as possible. The other kh games don't allow you to do anything close to what kh3 let's you do in that regard

I enjoy KH3 alot and genuinely have alot of fun playing around with all the stuff in it, and I still listen in intently to all these talks since there really are alot of flaws with the game which can get irksome to deal with or work around, but the core gameplay is still enjoyable for me. Glad BB's ending there acknowledges that experience as being possible and doesn't actively go after anyone for enjoying the good bits of the game. 2FM's still my fave tho. Plays like a dream, and it has Donald Duck say *"Sora! It's Sephiroth"* to give me lethal levels of whiplash every time without fail. KH games are good, worth having talks like these about. Keep up the good work, BB.

I decided to compile all of the tools used in the WR of Level 1 Data Org fights between the games. These are the results. KH2 1. Axel - Blizzard and Reflect 2. Luxord - RNG manipulation, Thunder, and Reflect 3. Xemnas - Reflect-Slapshot combo 4. Xemnas 2 - Reflect, Fire 5. Lexaeus - Reflect, Blizzard, Thunder, Final Form, Duck Flare 6. Saïx - Reflect, Duck Flare 7. Demyx - Duck Flare, Fire, Magnet, Wisdom Form, Final Form 8. Marluxia - Comet, Reflect, Final Form, Fire 9. Roxas - Reflect, Thunder, huge Limit Form combo 10. Larxene - Reflect, Final Form, Fire, Blizzard, Comet 11. Zexion - Fire, Thunder, Duck Flare, Final Form 12. Vexen - Reflect, Final Form, Fire, Duck Flare 13. Xigbar - Reflect, Duck Flare 14. Xaldin - Reflect, Duck Flare KH3 1. Luxord - Shotlock, Thunder 2. Xemnas - Fire, Agile Claws, Frying Pan, Shotlock 3. Xehanort - Fire, Agile Claws, Frying Pan, Thunder 4. Ansem - Fire, Frying Pan, Agile Claws 5. Xigbar - Fire, Frying Pan, Agile Claws 6. Larxene - Fire, Water, Shotlock, Agile Claws 7. Saïx - Fire, Frying Pan, Agile Claws 8. Riku - Fire, Frying Pan, Agile Claws 9. Young Xehanort - Fire, Water, Agile Claws 10. Xion - Fire, Frying Pan, Agile Claws 11. Vanitas - Fire, Frying Pan, Agile Claws 12. Terranort - Water, Fire, Frying Pan, Agile Claws 13. Marluxia - Water, Fire, Shotlock, Agile Claws, Thunder What these results tell me is that Reflect is OP in KH2 and Fire is OP in KH3 but thats obvious. The big difference between the two that this data doesn’t show is how those two spells are utilized. Reflect is a counter and does good damage so its used often and used to lead into other things like thunders, forms, and limits. Fire is used constantly and nonstop to stun-lock bosses to death in KH3. You may also notice that KH2 uses far more tools more often than KH3. I actually noticed that the order of the data fights in 3 is just going around the circle because there is so little deviation in strategy. And yet, in my opinion, KH3 has the better designed data fights, so it really goes to show how much worse balanced Sora’s move-set is.

The fate of all devolved debate: framing issues. All good discussion is holistic; respecting not just the specifics but the context of specifics. I can take one scenario from any moment of anything, criticize it into the ground, and make it seem like the worst thing of all time, and all while ignoring everything that created said problem in the first place. It’s easy, which is why it’s a common tactic in discussion. KH2 and KH3 share a franchise, but they are separate games in and of themselves. Ultimately, KH3s issue aren’t just franchise problems, they’re KH3 problems that undermine the game’s interactivity and longevity. KH2’s problems are mostly imbalances that can be accepted in the grander context of what the game has to offer.

I totally agree that KH2 was more fun to play. It also turns out I like having a bunch of worlds to play rather than 6 well made worlds that begin to feel stagnant. It begins to remind you of KH2's prologue. I also was looking forward to return to tutorial level island from the first game after the KH3 trailer in 2013. Also whats the point of using Cure when you can just summon Simba who heals you and begins stomping around? The hub world was nothing and the whole game in general kind of reminded me of the problem between Melee and Brawl, where its kind of dispiriting to see the successor of an adored game fall short in more areas than it improves.

Another few big reasons KH3 gets more criticism: - It came out after KH2. No one is going to criticize KH2 for not having learnt from KH2's mistakes, because that would be a temporal paradox. KH3 had the opportunity to learn from its mistakes, and it actually does this at times (such as the evolution of Anti Form to something that feels so much less like a kick in the groin in KH3). - It came out after all the other Osaka games, in which the Osaka team showed very little sign of learning from previous Osaka game mistakes or even just trying to follow what KH2 got right. - And finally, KH2's super broken stuff isn't just handed to you. Even when you do get it, if you're not messing around with it as your abilities amass, you don't realize how good it is. Stitch, for example - he's not as flashy as Drives, and doesn't give new movement skills for leveling him, so a first time player is a lot less likely to use him. And you aren't too likely to notice how often he restores your MP or blocks hits if you don't use him frequently, and on tough bosses - but he doesn't full restore you as soon as you summon him, so you're not likely to use him on tough bosses rather than going Valor, Wisdom, Limit, or Master for that restoration and immediate, obvious combat boost. Plus, baby Magnet is not that great - so you're not terribly likely to depend on it compared to what your X attacks can do, so it gets the same treatment, making it even less likely you'll combo it with Stitch. KH3 is different: there's not a big juicy distracting alternative from fire spam or Links that feels fun as hell to play and gives you super cool growth skills if you grind it.

I want my drive forms man, I’m sorry guys but keyblade transformations just weren’t doing it for me. Second form and double form were totally better feeling

spamming Simba in Arendelle is the optimal way to play so you can get that stinky ass world over with ASAP

My main problem after playing KH3 on Crit is that they clearly did not make any attempt at rebalancing the game mode for the HP/MP reduction and damage increase. Almost everything kills you in two hits unless you are over-leveled; and some things, like the Gigas, can kill you in one hit from 100%. This is especially frustrating because the maps are so open and filled with large packs of enemies that can attack from off camera to hit you (*cough* Angelic Amber *cough*). This basically limits you to having to use Links, Keyblade finishers, or Shotlocks to clear most of the game. Cuisines could help with this, but were basically unusable until after Kingdom of Corona simply because you had to farm the ingredients. KH2 did have things that could kill you very quickly on Crit (Dancers, Assassins, Sorcerers, Emerald Blues, various enemies if you miss their RC), but because there were fewer enemies to deal with at once you could counter them without having to rely on Drive forms, Summons, or Limits to clear packs of enemies regardless of level. Sure, Reflect was broken af, but you didn't need to use it for everything. Those things were mainly for convenience or experimentation, not because they were the only way to clear mobs safely. Square put a lot of thought in designing a fair, but challenging Critical mode in KH2 by starting you off with several growth abilities in exchange for you being able to die a lot easier. I don't remember if KH3 does this on Crit (haven't played on a non-Crit difficulty since the game released) but it really needed something like that.

I have a big issue with KH3 when compared to KH2 in regards to mob fights. In KH2 there are quite a few ways to approach a battle or situation comfortabally in any difficulty. If I wanna use Drives, Summons, Limits and even physical combos later on get really nice. With combat mostly letting me do what I want I can almost always win the fight. In KH3, I tried to approach battles how I wanted (mostly using fun Keyblade transformations and physical combos, with magic splashed in). But on higher difficulties I just kept getting hit out of nowhere and during moments where I couldn't physically dodge due to long animations. After getting frustrated for so long I made a rule for mob fights: if I died to nonsense 2-3 times in a row while playing how I wanted, I would just switch to Simba to get it over with and move on. Suffice to say, I resorted to Simba many times.

One of my favorite talks thus far. Glad you do these, and I look forward to the upcoming discussion topics you have in mind

KH3 favors style of substance. Not saying that KH2 doesn't, but pretty much KH3 feels like its trying hard to be flashing and the core design of the fights demand more AOE otherwise the player will be overwhelmed. So it falls onto the design of the fights which don't put you into unique situations. There are effectively 2 modes. Army fight or Boss fight. So all fights need to be dictated by that. And I think that the army of heartless fights boil down to the fact that KH3 maps are just too huge, and I think Kh3 could have done with scaling down the playable maps to a smaller area and as such reducing the battalion size and mix up the types of heartless you find and you have to approach each battalion differently. IMO

I know I am kinda late to the party but I still want to bring up my point of view on your answer in this video BB. I feel I agree with you on this video on what you are saying in terms of what flaws of KH3 are discussed here and your arguments are valid, but I would answer differently for 1 thing. To me, the lack of consistency in criticism regarding the "optimal broken stuff" is linked to the synergy and pushing for creativity debate. In KH2 and in KH3, you have broken stuff and strategies. It's bound to happen in such expensive games with so much options that at the same time try to be ultra flashy and make you powerful. The problem to me is that in KH3, they don't feel like strategies. They just feel like broken stuff. In KH2, stitch + magnega + thundaga shits on most mob fights and make them trivial. Reflect spam into combo into limit form can just make some bosses not exist ever. You have broken af strats. But it's actually fun and feels good because they are strats, you have to think, learn, and execute them very well for them to be broken. Because you have to use multiple different tools in a certain time window or do a lot of micro decisions and actions. You don't just press 2 buttons and get the full package. The broken stuff is broken because of synergy between very good options that would be absolutely terrible on their own. Reflect spam only won't get you very far, limit form without a big opening will do damage but it's not a win button. Stitch is on it's own a defensive summon, not a crowd control efficient one, you have to think about using crowd control magic to use the refill that makes it such a great crowd control tool. And not 1 type of magic, thunder spam would let you open, and magnet does low damage. The synergy brings a bit of balance (you won't just stumble on a broken strat, you actually have to test things out and think) and a lot of fun. Now take KH3. The broken strats for mob fights are either magic aoe and pressing triangle when shit appears in reaction commands, or just bring out Simba and fuck everything by pressing x repeatedly. The broken boss strat is just fucking fire spam and that's it. Where is the synergy? Where is the reward? Where is the FUN? In KH2, you can be broken if you invest into the system. It feels like a reward for you being better at the game and at the same time it seems like you outsmarted the system itself and basically are cheating. You feel even more in control of the game than you were. You feel more player agency, with the same technical level of it. It's fucking dope! Broken = Fun! In KH3, your broken stuff are... your basic kit without any added thinking of anything. You can be broken literally all the time without any effort. It doesn't feel like a reward anymore. You just feel like the game is poorly balanced. It doesn't help that where in KH2 there was an entire spectrum for the level of play because all your options were viable in one way or another, KH3 has either the broken stuff or the frustrating bullshit and the only player agency is just the choice of being optimal or making the experience more painful for yourself. It doesn't feel fun. It just feels broken. It's has been made flashy without thinking about what made this flashiness sick before. Once again, I don't want to trash on the game too much, I personally still enjoyed it a lot even before the DLC (that fixed a lot of this problem btw, it's sick af) but I still felt that there was "something missing", "lacking" and when I understood what it was, I stopped searching for it for the rest of my playthrough to not ruin my 1st experience completely because of what I wished for. But there it is. To me this portion of the lack of consistency in the criticisms between KH2 and 3 exists only because people don't elaborate much. Yes broken stuff is problematic in 3 and less in 2, but there's a reason for that. When criticising the reasoning someone makes, don't stick to the 3 1st sentences. Be sure you get all the thing before saying... well things that are just wrong. Since the problem with broken stuff is not the same in both games, then there may not be a consistency problem. Not saying that all points are like this, but I feel that some are and that can get very upsetting on both sides of a debate if either or both don't understand fully what the other is really talking about.

I want a KH talk about chain of memories

While I get that a lot of content is at the end of the game anyway I feel like people tend to forget that things like Final Form Fire Spam or the overpowered nature of magnet are only things you really see at the end + post game. KH3 kind of just makes you OP almost right off the bat with quite a few cheese tactics to make use of as early as twilight town. With KH2 it felt like a lot of your powerful options were earned whereas a lot of KH3's are just handed to you, made even worse by the lack of any resource management to reign you in. This isn't to say that I don't enjoy KH3's systems at all, in fact over time i've grown to enjoy them as much as I enjoy KH2's but on top of the game being made almost two decades later (meaning they had plenty of time to work out how to properly balance the game) I think you can make a lot of good cases for why the criticism is consistent if you take into account the context of the games as a whole.

With the ReMind patch and once I realized the beauty of airstep, I honestly really dig KH3's combat. The movement is just absolutely nuts

I personally absolutely loved the core gameplay of kingdom hearts 3, even more so than kingdom hearts 2. With that said, I wholeheartedly think every one of those points are very valid and rings true to me. Kingdom hearts 2 is a very....... magical game, and the gameplay just feels so good in an almost surreal way. I personally enjoy kingdom hearts 3 more for the way that Sora moves and the almost over-simplistic gameplay that may turn many people off. Yes, I agree with that it feels a bit like you’re fighting the system, but I ironically enjoy it and feel that it adds to a certain charm to the game. In fact, funnily enough, even though you’re fighting the system, it almost feels FLUID in a very unconventional sense to me. It’s like.... you’re fighting the system, but JUST enough where you can still feel the fluidity of the controls. But I don’t think it’s for everyone and understand why many are against it. I do hope we can find a middle ground that both the kh3 and kh2 communities can enjoy in the coming games. I do love at least the movement of kh3 and hope for it to continue in future games.

Another problem is everyone is comparing a now 8 year old game that has completely been fleshed out and explored to almost its depths vs a game that came out 4 years ago

Hey BB, wanna say ive recently started a level 1 crit 2fm run and used your sgdq 2017 run for reference when i get stuck. Been a while since i played 2fm, some rough parts make me feel like back when i played for the first time and struggled. Speedrun/optimal strats feel really fun when you can pull them off, so ty for getting me into this

TL;DR: Its not about how broken they are, but how easily one is broken compared to the other I think people complain more about kh3 compared to kh2 cause in kh2 it took a while for you to have acess to the broken stuff. In the first worlds in kh3 the game give you water/fire cufflinks (which unlocks acess to late game -za spells amd boost elemental dmg, including summons) and a summon that can easily one shot bosses

These KH Talks are some of the best Kingdom Hearts related content to ever hit this site, and I’m completely serious. You talk about things in a lighthearted, engaging and still analytical tone that is really refreshing for discussion around this series. It’s so nice to see someone who actually knows the mechanics the games intimately as well as being interested in the writing and plot. You’re also not afraid to acknowledge and even shed your biases when talking about certain things. I’m rambling at this point but I just love this shit. Keep it up BB

While I love KH3 the biggest criticism I can think of is how it approaches some harder mob fights (like the olympus minotaur one). They're kinda made to be annoying so you spam magic or team attacks to get over them quickly. The other is the pacing of the story (middle of the game is really meh) Everything else I found really enjoyable, Re;Mind especially. I really hope Osaka team learns from this in regards to the future. Re;Mind is a step in the right direction, and knocked it out of the park in terms of bosses but mob fights still need to be more optimized.

growing up; i didn't even really use summons. the only time i used them was when it was required to in coliseum. now i know the power of summons. mainly stitch. i think when people discovered optimal play; they forgot that this isn't the way you HAVE to play.

I dunno about some of these points, kh3 has some major design perks over kh2 that people just look over. You say that in kh2 you just wanna hit the button? I hit the button then some soldier or hammer snipes me halfway across the arena and I can't do anything about it even if I saw it coming because it's sora doesn't cancel out of combos with defensive tools as well as kh3. I jump and attack a book master in cor and immediately clank on the book and now it's about to slam a book in my face and I can't get away in time with a glide. There's also sorcerers, which if you try comboing at the wrong time just murder you. All these would be less of an issue with kh3 cancelling. Kh2 can make you eat shit a lot for doing combos against mobs and your only defensive tool is reflect, which you can still get sniped between the finishers, limits or a drive break. While kh3 does have more enemies on screen, there are more ways to i-frame your way through a combo, be it flat out cancelling or a situation command. This goes double for mid-air, since you can't chain magic in midair except for master and final, 1 reflect is all you get with massive recovery, you can't even aerial dodge if you perform a combo in midair until you land. What I'm trying to say is you have more outs just pushing buttons in kh3, you block a boss' attack, counter to check for an opening, find that they're still super armored, just dodge away. In kh2 you would hope for your attack to parry or turn into a block. Small note, and this is more of a post game thing, but kh3's aerial dive is the best tracking combo mod in the franchise.

Really good points. I feel like it's hard to admit that something as subjective as "satisfying gameplay" is such an important factor, so people try to compare more objective things like unbalanced mechanics or weird jank. But at the end of the day, both games are just a long parade of mob fights and boss battles, so those being fun is top priority. When a pack of enemies is presented to you, what does it feel like? Is it another slog to tank through, or an exciting opportunity to try something interesting? Your idea that "sub-optimal" strategies in KH2 still feel just as fun is 100% true, even though it's near impossible to prove. It naturally turns the mind away from min-maxing whatever consistently does safe free damage as quickly as possible, and towards growing your effort until your own personal strategy ends up just as optimal! It's just like you said in the turning point video: I'll give some unbalanced mechanics the benefit of the doubt if I can have a blast doing it. But if the system is just incohesive and shuts down everything that isn't just max safe damage, why would I even want to engage with enemies? Anyway, I'm basically rehashing what you said but far less coherently, hahaha. I think in KH3 and other games, after failing a mob fight, your takeaway is usually "I need to do more safe AOE," i.e. there's only one true peak strategy on the "graph," and the closer you get to it, whether you add in your own experiments or not, determines your success. Whereas in KH2, every fight has a different lesson, and there are a handful of different peak strategies you can move towards or away from. Sure, one of them may be a bit stronger than the rest, but identifying your niche and moving towards optimizing it is greatly engaging and enjoyable. Well those are my thoughts. Great video!

I believe KH3 has this sense of wanting the battles to seem more reliant on adaptability. Keyblade switching to change setup and tactics mid-battle, having great team member finishers to help you out in a combo, having the ability to move from one enemy to another far ranged and instantly. And I really love the combat system especially with magic being very fast-paced like melee combat. It's very exhilarating to me. But to me the only problems I have with KH3 combat is that there no sense of working towards Team Members specials other than the vague sense of keeping them alive? At least making sure both/all partners have HP, using some of both Sora's and the teammate's MP with a definitive cooldown would be cool (could actually allow super boss possibilities for Donald and Goofy). I hate that this sense of RNG/chance for partner related combat practically ruined the chances of them being used competently for post-game bosses due to the removed agency deeming them only usable for casual fights. (I fight for my partners in mainline KH games) Like sure, they'll get their butt beat in KH2superbosses but at least there would be some sense of utility to their presence to "aggro" the enemy or using a Limit for style/utility. I just find it very very awkward and disappointing how stuff like attraction flows and your main party members combat being removed for superbosses had to happen because a major part of their utility comes from chance. KH3 would be much better in its unique mechanics/systems (with maybe the exception of unison attacks because they're relatively harmless) if they made it work like the keyblade forms (aka HIT ENEMY WITH KEYBLADE YOU GET FORM). Something that you work to in a battle. If KH3 wanted to emphasize having the player adapt to their environment and enemy climate more enjoyably, all aspects should be able to flow like a line graph.

I think the biggest argument against there being absolutely inconsistent criticism between the games is the fact that there is a bit of dishonesty with regards to the criticisms of KH2, there are legitimate ones but some are untrue or just unfair I would say like for instance: The "final form fire spam comment" this is useful for superbosses but sub-optimal for practically anything else, there are still quicker ways to defeat some bosses and in some fights it's literally not possible, KH3 has the yo-yo fire spam that works on every single superboss. The point about the Stitch magnet + thunder spam, yes that's a legitimate criticism but only to certain point, that strat won't work against pretty much any bosses in the game. Simba and Ariel work against the majority of KH3 combat even some boss fights, not all mind you but arguably more fights than that Stitch strat would allow, plus beyond that there are better options to beat many of these mob fights faster which can't exactly be said for Simba or Ariel in KH3. You can criticize KH2 for many things but in terms of consistency, people need to be consistent themselves, I'll list of several of my own criticisms of KH2: - The exploration sucks and I don't think CoR makes up for that enough. - Sora can get TOO many drive bars and they can charge far too fast in 2FM (If it was a tad bit slower to charge it'd be fine I think.) - Stitch is overpowered just not really the same way that video describes. - Reflect spells should do moderately lower damage. (Even though I never agree with the meme that you just spam it to win because that's literally not true.) - Some bosses are just not very fun fights or are poorly designed. (Oogie, Genie Jafar, MCP/Sark, Vexen.) - The amount of meh minigames is ridiculous. (I don't think many are "bad" but I don't think they're all that interesting, I do think that RPGs always need a couple of these to break the monotony but not the amount KH2 has.) - Pride Lands visit 2 is just kind of bad, it's literally walk here, walk there, fight minigame battle, walk here, walk there, fight boss, done. - Valor Form falls off pretty fast, same with Wisdom Form. My primary criticism of KH3 stem from the combat loop being too samey all the time and what feels like way less to do, I wanted far more content in KH3 but I feel like I didn't get that. Edit: Actually a final point I'd like to make is a comparison to another franchise, Halo. In Halo 2 if playing on Legendary you basically never want to use any other weapons besides the Battle Rifle or Covenant Carbine, they're useful for just outright killing enemies faster and useful for keeping your distance from enemies, the only weapons that beat them are things like the Sniper Rifle or Beam Rifle and power weapons like the Rocket Launcher or Fuel Rod Gun. This makes it so basically half the weapons aren't really useful. In Halo 3 if playing on Legendary the Battle Rifle and Covenant Carbine are still great but every single weapon can kill enemies in a much shorter amount of time and can help with various situations, this allows Halo 3 to obviously have some dominant strategies but you can play more of the way you want to play, both games will kill you fast if you don't think about what you're doing but Halo 3 even with imbalances allows you to properly use more of the sandbox and weaponry in the game. Both games are great but Halo 2 definitely has the worst balance in the series and every (or most) Halo player/players will tell you that, they won't say "well this other game also has imbalance" as if that protects Halo 2 from criticism. My point is that KH3 is balanced sort of similarly to Halo 2 except for the fact that KH3 is a much easier game than Halo 2 on the highest difficulty.

I love these people who talk about “consistent criticisms” and then compare a secret end game drive form that can only be obtained in the final world of the game, and a basic spell u obtain after beating the tutorial boss. If fire was only OP in keyblade graveyard then yeah it would be unfair to call kh3 “just fire spam” but it's not. Not only are u incentivised to use it because of broken accessories like fire cuff link being available stupidly early into kh3, as well as obtaining the fire boost ability before any other spell boost abilities, but with both Corona AND Arendelle being almost entirely filled with enemies that are weak to fire (In the case of corona the flower nobodies literally go invincible if u don’t hit them with fire) OF COURSE people are gonna come away from kh3 thinking it‘s just fire spam simulator, because the game is seemingly designed to encourage that mindset regardless of how much depth the game may or may not actually have. It’s literally the same problem that KH2 has with people saying it’s “just mash X to win” the difference is, as you delve more into kh2’s mechanics and it’s higher difficulties you realise that simply mashing X isn’t as effective as actually utilising your entire kit. As opposed to KH3, where even on higher difficulties, simply using fire spam + links IS the most optimal/efficient and most of the time safest way to beat the game (not counting limitcut of course).

Great video as always. I think what it comes down to is this: while KH2 does have its problems, KH2 was (imo) a better game for its generation/time than KH3 is for its gen. And it comes down to experience vs inexperience. KH2 was made by a more experienced team than KH3, and it does show. I always think about the amount of space wasted in KH3 ( look at the size of the world maps out-of-bounds compared to the playable areas, esp Arendelle and Olympus...). It’s no wonder that the game encountered disc space and load-time issues when it was trying to fit 8 massive open worlds into itself. This is not meant to disrespect Osaka or belittle their achievements. In addition to their console inexperience, they also faced development setbacks that would have been a challenge for even the old Tokyo team. At the end of the day, I feel the two games should be criticized in context of their generations. The KH3 team benefited from technology (and budget) the KH2 team did not have. While the two games do have their problems, KH3‘s seem a little less excusable to me and more due to developer error/mismanagement than hardware limitation. I respect Osaka’s improvements (especially with ReMind), but KH3 did inevitably suffer a little from their inexperience. Even if it was an unavoidable outcome, KH fans were justified to be mad at SQ after almost 20 years of brand loyalty. (It also certainly didn’t help that Nomura couldn’t direct the game as hands-on as he would have if not for FFVIIR and that he didn’t bother writing much of a main story scenario for them to work with.) I really think they should consider KH3 Final Mix (although it would probably be closer to a remake tbh lol). KH3 does have a lot of great potential, and it’s a shame that they seem willing to let it just fade into obscurity when the team had put so much “heart” into it.

Hey, I started watching just recently and I really like this content! It's different from a lot of content I watch, but it's nice to hear someone going in-depth on KH game design. I have a little nitpick though, the chat is a bit hard to see, especially on mobile devices. If the footage were 1080p it'd be a little sharper, but you could also make the text just a little bigger and that would help too. In the end this is just a nitpick that doesn't effect my experience much, but I thought I'd mention it.

What I would add to this is the options in KH2 that are "sub-optimal" are still interesting in that they can contain depth due to the way combos are strung together. I was fighting data Lexaeus recently and while in wisdom form I combo'd him with a blizzaga into the basic shots into a magnega before reflecting as he counterattacked on his way down from the magnet. I accidentally pressed my shortcut for thundaga instead of magnega while practicing and realized that the thundaga knocked him up in the air and my combo plus abilities let me magnet him in the air and then continue into reflect. I also saw that if I tried to blizzaga -> magnega -> thundaga -> reflega that since magnet serves as a combo finisher that my thundaga would count as a finishing thundaga through finishing plus and that sora's animation for a finishing thundaga takes too long to reflect afterwards. This kind of coordination between the visual feedback of the game with the intricacies of its combo system helped me figure out instantly why magnega -> thundaga -> reflega doesn't work. Even if I were a new player and had no idea that magnega acted like a combo finisher I would have still seen the longer thundaga animation and realized that route didn't work. KH2's engine is constantly interacting with the player and presents new challenges and strategies that encourage the player to learn more about its engine so that the player can manipulate the game into doing what they want. In KH3 I feel like the "optimal strategies" and the "sub-optimal" have the same amount of depth to them, and I never felt compelled to explore the intricacies of the engine, even when I just wanted to do something flashy. It's sad to me that adding a thunder into my normal data lexaeus opening combo got me to interact more with the game's mechanics than any magic combos in KH3 did. In addition, some "optimal" strategies in KH2 have really tight windows of execution that don't suit all players, which makes "sub-optimal" or more unsafe strategies the go to choice depending on how you play the game. In Bizkit047's all superbosses lv1 crit RTA with KH3 superbosses video, he mentions that after DM skip on data Xigbar, he's not comfortable doing the berserk charge strategy as he didn't have enough practice, and instead used a super cool master form strategy using rumbling rose for a triple finisher that still didn't hit RV and let him kill Xigbar without needing to learn another strat. That's why final form firaga spam to me isn't a huge flaw with KH2's design, as there are plenty of situations where the faster, safer, or flashier strats can make a player stray from the comfort of a broken combo, and the game continuously helps the player find these new strategies by putting bosses in front of them that are effectively an extension of the engine and how the boss and the player take advantage of what the game has to offer. Even though KH3 remind has some amazing superbosses, the approaches to their fights don't vary much solely because the options the player can use against them don't vary much mechanically.

A thing that wasn't mentioned in this talk is that KH3 is newer. They had a long as time to perfect the feel of the game and they had newer better tools to do it, but they didn't succeed. Also there is little to no reason to bitch about the stupid choices of kh2 because Square won't go back and change them. But KH3 is not that old so maybe your voice can be heard, maybe if you criticise the game something can change. Just my thoughts on the topic.

So, when using flowmotion attacks, the enemy's position relative to you determines the type of attack. So you can chain thunder's finisher with the most powerful single target flowmotion ability that you have after airstepping from above. You could also use the opportunity to air slide away and heal while in midair since you've created a lot of distance. You said as much yourself, the only way to get back over to them is to airstep, which means you've just given yourself an opportunity to cast cure or use an item. Or, you can take the opportunity to use a shotlock. Water is primarily useful early game, because its damage is more significant due to the ability to get multiple hits by sliding past them while casting, the I frames are just a small bonus that allows you to more safely get close to an enemy while casting it. Blizzard freeze also deals additional damage when breaking it. KH3's biggest problem is too many options.With flowmotion, links, attraction flow, formchanges, shotlocks, team abilities, spells, keyblade switching, air-step combo chaining, and so on, the player can both be overwhelmed and not know what their options are at the same time. It does mean that just about every player can find something they like, but it is difficult to set into a good strat.

hey man this is going to seem unrelated but do you think you could upload your blind reactions to playing the kingdom hearts 3 data org for the first time? (Remind) I never got to see you stream it and it was never clipped

Had the day off from work today, hadn't played any video games in a while and decided to bounce between the numbered KH games for a bit on some files I had started.... but I ended up coming back to KH2 because I was so engrossed and involved. The strategic uses of Quick Run, deciding when to go into Valor for Barbosa, choosing to keep Blizzard over Fire for its long range and just how fuckin satisfying Trinity Limit and Chicken Little are to use. I really get it now, because I honestly didn't get much of that while playing KH3. I still like it, but yeah, having played them back to back, I get what BB and others are on about. Not that I ever wasn't, I was always sympathetic to their positions, but now I get it from firsthand experience. 2FM is far and away superior.

Really cool that u brought up the ff xigbar combo. We have all learned or tried to learn it and it’s a pinnacle of the game in my opinion

You came up with some really cool ideas, like modifying thundaga finisher to bounce into the air. What other modifications would you make to boost the fluidity of KH3? Could you give a kh talk about it, maybe with someone else who’s had similar discussions like Bizkit047?

One reason for the criticisms of KH3, is that A we are all older now and can express critique more accurate and B, Kingdom hearts's experience is now different than how it used to be.

Saw Aruarian Dance in your suggestions. That song is fire as hell

11:30 i love kh2fm for the same reasons you state here, but i gotta admit in my lvl1 run, in some instances i felt very forced to use Duck Flare/Stitch/FF Firaga/item spam etc. to progress because they were the only way out to win certain bosses/mob fights

While I love kh3s combat after the updates and I think it has aspects it does better than 2fm. There are still several things 2fm does overall better and can be improved in future entries: -Summon sytem is very underwhelming and has no synergy with Soras moveset unlike combos, forms, magic and flowmotion. Only Ralph and Stitch are fun and take skill to use and they still suffer from bad balancing. The other 3 are just push button to do damage which is boring and leads to a lack of creative usage. Summons should be more in the style of party members where they help you while youre still in full control of Sora. - Grand magic and Team attacks shouldnt be rng based. The player should be rewarded for mixing up their magic attacks not given less chance to get anything, grand magic should also have more utillity other than being aoe, some can still be that sure but others can have more unique effects that can leave the doors open for even greater synergy with your other options. Team attacks should either be available in the command menu or if you want go keep the build up thing you can have it where as you land hits a gauge fills up beneath their hp bar similliar to dream eaters and once its full you can use the limit of that party member or wait till everyones gauge is maxed to do a big combination limit. You can have thing like healing party members filling their gauge faster. - While having smooth keyblade swap with item cancel is great, having it so you have both normal fast swap for continuing combos and item cancel for resets while also having abillities that encourage keyblade swap like a short damage boost after switch would make combo potential even greater.

After spiking the enemy to the ground, you could use the Hammer air-to-ground attack which is strong and has some AOE.

ive always found KH2FMs setup for some stuff just so fun looking and playing. like on xemnas 1, doing reflect into slap shot into reflect on his 1 2 swing will always be swag. even if reflect didnt do that much dmg just the fact you can be that in your face well just dealing with his attacks just feels so good. KH3 does have a couple of things like ive always enjoyed how some of the summons actually worked and just keeping out for the situations that make them aplicable, like even know its simple and cheese using ariel on a enemy that takes multi hits from her, getting the right spots to do the best amount of dmg feels satisfying. it also doesnt help that with KH3 that lets say i want to use ripple drive in second form, but in alot of combos on a decent amount of enemys it transitions into a air combo and uses magnet splash, infact there was a opposite case of i wanted to magnet splash for CC but because the enemy was close enough to the ground i didnt get it and got sniped by a enemy i wanted to CC

Thank you for making this KH talk regarding why you're heavily critical of KH3's overall combat design. I'm sorry if I came across as being abrasive with those comments on the previous KH talk. That being said, I still want to try again in conveying a thought of mine that I was trying to hint at with those comments. It's my fault that I didn't make my overall feelings clear enough. Maybe it will be the same this time, but I still think any potential for further debate would be well-appreciated. Out of all possible grievances, the main issue I had with the conversation surrounding KH3's many combat design decisions wasn't that it was receiving more criticism than KH2; Granted, that was one of my thoughts as well when it comes to KH3. Thankfully, you have managed to explain what it is about KH3 that stops you from enjoying it as much. I think it is fair that KH3 receives more scrutiny from fans, well-deserved scrutiny at that when so much of its underlying design feels arbitrary and poorly thought-out. I can understand why KH fans are extremely harsh on it (and the rest of Osaka Team's previous games), as they just want the series they love to improve further. No, what really gets to me, whether be it that I am viewing things unfairly or not, is this: It is unclear to me how KH fans want the combat of these games to improve. Yes, maybe it seems like I am ignoring the obvious; Fans of their favorite series definitely want them to be their best as much as possible. But, it is not just about the "Whys", but also the "Hows"; HOW do KH fans want the combat to improve? Because ever since the release of KH3 last year, I can't for the life of me describe how frustrated I get when people just describe KH3 as having "floaty combat" to convey their lack of enjoyment and calling it a day. Maybe it is my fault for not looking hard enough and just sticking to just Twitter dot com, but whenever I see discussion of KH3, it doesn't really go far enough for it to be insightful as it could be. It feels like opinions from the fanbase are fragmented and messily spread out, and the lack of in-depth KH3 design analysis out there doesn't really help so. It is why I appreciate this KH talk of yours; Because not only have you managed to consolidate most of KH3's frustrating elements quite well (bad camera, enemy design, sluggish controls, etc.), you've also managed to list out how to bring improvements to KH3's combat if possible: When you stated that Thunder's effect could be a ground bounce, that basically giving suggestions on how to improve the utility of magic. Or how you stated that Hyper Hammer's attacks could have super armor to make up for its slow speed, so it won't feel as bad to use currently. And that is what I want: *Constructive* criticism. To me, it is not enough to just state problems; I mean, you definitely want to firmly list down any possible issues, for sure. But always stating problems, yet never giving solutions doesn't really feel right to me. For example, I already know with the constant stream of criticism that KH3 has bad mob design, where enemies will snipe you off-camera. What I really want to find out, is how people want the devs to go about fixing this issue. Should they: A) Buff certain combos to be quick and snappy so that players can handle incoming waves of enemies B) Give more crowd control options to the player, like re-introducing Reflect for example C) Make enemy telegraphing better, like marking the path of enemies' attacks even if they attack off-screen or giving them more distinct audio cues D) Just straight up stop with the whole "musou" enemy waves and cut down on the number of enemies significantly Maybe fans already do this well enough, but if so, it is mostly always with 2FM as a point of reference. You mentioned that KH2 is always brought up because it is the closest point of reference for the KH series. That is fine, but solely mentioning 2FM when the time comes for discussion just comes off to me as being.....inflexible? Like, I think that stating how KH can take from other action game series like DMC or Bayonetta would be quite fine. Games can learn from each other for the sake of improvement. Perhaps I'm overthinking things, but I always keep getting the feeling that KH fans are hyper-fixated on KH2 to the point of inflexibility. For example, I've seen the complaint that KH3's floatiness is still an issue in that during some of Limit Cut Xehanort's attacks because if you're too high enough, the endlag from your Airdash means you will get hit by the last attack. That is a fair observation and critique, but what gets to me is insisting that Sora's gravity must be higher; Can't you just, give Sora's airdash less endlag or give him an option to fall to the ground faster? Why must you insist that the game shouldn't be floaty, especially when it was clearly designed and accommodated for it with how high Sora can go in levels. Maybe this was why I was spiteful towards KH2 during my comments on the previous KH talk. To be fair, it is ultimately up to the developers at Square Enix to decide how they want to go about fixing the issues that plague the games, and how they want to further expand on their games, for better or for worse. Do not take this as me saying that fans should do the jobs of the developers; That they are the ones who should come up with ideas for the games. That being said, if KH fans are going to repeatedly state their disdain towards the games, I think it's fair to ask them what specific improvements do they want. (I will apologize if you had given suggestions many times before. If you have done so, then good! Keep up the good work for this community)

I agree KH2 allows you to have a lot of options... once you grind up all the forms and growth skills needed for the system. Including something as simple as Dodge roll, a skill every other games have like an hour into the game. Kh2 is so limiting in the beginning it's no wonder some people consider Roxas' section to be the worst intro in a KH game. At least Destiny Island Sora could do some parries and controlled air combos while you wait to get access to magic and skills. It's to KH3's benefit and bane that it gives you most of your "moveset" in the beginning. Spiking an enemy would be godlike in KH1 where the most annoying enemies in the game are the flying variety. in Kh3, you just zoom in on them. In critical, you have combo master from the beginnig and you can even fly all the way up to enemies super high in the sky. also devil's advocate: Water technically lets you be defensively offensive in theory. shield an incoming attack, and then strike back with a hit that staggers and opens the enemy up for a combo .In practice, it's clear they were afraid of creating another Aero/Reflect with this, so the shield is pathetic. And this actual utility got realized in the countershield keyblade style.

i guess it all comes down to the situation command system. Needing to build up meter to get the CHANCE to get what you want, while in kh2 you select what you want which consumes a resource.

One gripe I have with this line of logic is that players have had significantly more time to familiarize themselves with the options in KH2 vs the options in KH3. That Xigbar combo would not come intuitively to the grand majority of players, only the most dedicated will find these crazy combos. Especially with the new item cancel, I feel that KH3 had a lot more options available now. There are already really unique complex combos showing up. It may not be to the same level as KH2, but writing KH3 off now when people are only just starting to discover what’s possible in the game is closed minded.

What about the criticism that KH3 was too easy and had a lack of endgame content on release when KH2 on release had the same issue? KH3 and KH2 were both only super improved with the addition of the Re:Mind/Final Mix add ons. So where is that criticism towards KH2 English that KH3 got on release? Would love a response on this because i always felt like people gave no patience and acted like KH3 was never going to be good after release just because they were comparing it to KH2FM rather than KH2 Vanilla.

In conclusion KH2FM is fun and effective with almost anything you do

For one, Kingdom Hearts 2 released when there was not an oversaturation of Kingdom Hearts games. Many can argue that the content of Kingdom Hearts 2 is substantial compared to Kingdom Hearts 3 and it's mechanics more polished. And lastly (this being my personal opinion) Kingdom Hearts 3 plot concludes everything established in the games post Kingdom Hearts 2 which I think we're rubbish plots points. I'm on the school of thought that Kingdom Hearts narrative should have ended at 2. That way, Kingdom Hearts wouldn't have become a parody of itself.

I was thinking about the water magic thing yesterday. It is not as good as reflect and it doesn’t even compete against regular block and reprisal, making it basically useless as a countering magic.

Man the kh2 cape he put on is real

I will always laugh out loud how he sounds like he's on the verge of tears when talks about Blizzard. Compare Blizzard to KH1 & 2 and his response is actually hilariously emotional

I think a huge testament to this point is that I was able to beat every superboss that allows Drive Forms, while using Wisdom Form the entire time(yes, even Xaldin). If that isn't sub-optimal, I don't know what is. But you know what? It worked, I had fun the entire time, and never felt like I was being held back or handicapping myself. Sure, I could use Final Firaga and Limit Form to shred through HP(which I also do from time to time), but it isn't necessary to feel like you are accomplishing something in a fun way. I can always try out a bunch of different ways to approach fights in KH2, which is something I love about the game. It makes it weird when I talk about KH2 superbosses vs KH3 superbosses. I enjoy KH3 superbosses more, and 3 has some amazing quality of life. But, as someone who likes using magic, my only real option is Firaga. I wanted so bad to do cool stuff with Waterga, Aeroga, or Blizzaga for example. But Blizzaga was a slower and weaker Firaga, and the other two I mentioned don't really work in an environment where you are fighting bosses. Even putting aside how situation commands discourages you from mixing and matching, Firaga is the only spell I can have fun fighting superbosses with. To the game's credit, though, I feel as though Firaga is so fun to use.

One time I misclicked Chicken Little when I meant to summon Stitch against AS Vexen and it WORKED?

Your section on water reminded me of trying to dodge stuff with cut-in in dmc5, risky without a whole lot of reward. Granted dodging stuff with cut-in feels amazing and water doesn't give me that feeling.

All pro code on Crit lvl 1 is almost impossible, because of the flaws with cameras, and the counter system. You usually get punished harshly and can't see why when countering, and finishing combos. It totally sucks. ALWAYS GETTING FRAME TRAPPED. All they had to do was allow you to dodge or airslide out of a broken block, or immediately after the counter frames have been executed. Would fix a feeling of being cheated, which the bosses are constantly trying to force you to press X, so they can counter it. KH III is the only game where i've seen bosses counter a counter-attack. It is a pain in the arse trying to get in 3 full combo hits, just to get the enemy to flinch off a finishing move. All the boss enemies have so much Armor its rediculous. You hit Terra in his damn face with a keyblade and he just phases through it. You know shit like that. There's no stun with your attacks so Sora feels like a weak ass.

I love these kh series talks.

Very late to this lol but I wanna point something out about the thundaga spike, during my playthrough I had a lot of occasions where I was relying on formchanges to get through obstacles. So in the case of a spike you might not get close to do a combo but there is formchanges that allow long range combat, so there is versatility and creativity involved. The problem I would say is that kh2 had interchangeable combat, you could go from each individual tool to any other and it feels right; with kh3 a lot of times that's not the case, it has a lot of options but they feel their own individual thing instead of a part of the whole. The biggest example would be links as you can't do anything else while you're in them, in the case of the stitch magnet spam you're actively combining game mechanics to gain invincibility, it feels "earned". I hope the team sticks to this combat system and improves upon it because I think a lot of the issues in kh3 stem from it being new and quite frankly huge, there is so much stuff going on at all times, I think it's surprisingly it works as well as it does.

There isnt consistency because they are different games for all kinds of different fans. They were trying to please old players while bringing new players in

It doesn’t feel annoying to play sub optimally in KH3 either. Base combat, especially with new abilities, is infinitely more fun than firing firaga forever...

"Why doesn't Thundaga Bounce them?" Because that's Aero does.

This may be a weird comparison, but a lot of bosses in KH2 (I stress SOME not all bosses) remind me of super Metroid in design. I mean with Draygon, you have the shine spark kill, the grapple beam, missiles and beam. There isn’t a right way to kill him, but there are some ways that are more obvious than some. Depending on the game and what the focus is, for games like this, I prefer having a toolbox of fun options than just two or three tools that always work.

applying the exact same criticism to both makes no sense when one had years to learn how the other works. KH2 was a huge leap forward in mechanics compared to KH1 and both were on the same console, but from KH2 to 3 it's questionable if they improved at all after 2 console generations. in fact KH3 has the same combat flaws 2 had and some more. think about it, in the same console gap DMC3 evolved into DMC5. the mechanical gap between DMC3 and 5 is immeasurable while the gap between KH2 and 3 is debatable at best and negative at worst.

You should do a KH talk about how dynamic the soundtracks throughout the games are and how that can propel Melody of Memories as a fan favorite & a new entry point to bridge Rhythm gamers into the series !!

Lol the doll in toy box was super frustrating. The hardest part of the fight is keeping her in one area so she doesn't spawn more enemies.

Yep. Final Form is straight up better than the other drive forms (EDIT: except Limit Form in certain scenarios) and I don't like that about KH2. However, at least KH2 has drive forms. Drive forms are way cooler than any of the form changes in KH3. Give me Final Forms absolute busted-ness over anything in KH3.

keyblade transformations were swaggy

As someone who falls more on the casual side of KH action gameplay, KH3 felt much more empty. The game feels more rigid and delayed than KH2. I was super disappointed in the magic selection - not only was Fire made into a projectile again (KH2 Fire was the best and most interesting to play with), but the new spells, Aero and Water, are just damage dealers. That's it. Sure, it's cool that Water kills submerged Shadows, but that would only be cool in KH1 where it was challenging and occasionally frustrating to deal with Shadows. Aero's Flowmotion shit just gets the way more than it helps. Instead of things with some real utility, like Magnet to bring enemies in one place or Reflect to both guard and counterattack, we just get more "spam this to kill things and then press triangle to throw out a bigger version that really kills things". In KH2, the Drive gauges were a dynamic decision tool that determined what I would attempt to be doing - should I whip out a drive form? Maybe I'll intentionally go into MP charge to increase my Drive intake. If I have Magnet, I can bring enemies closer to pelt them with Thunder to really rack up the gauges. The Drive form upgrade system encourages you to think critically about your toolset and the different levels to come up with efficient ways of growing, and the rewards for growing are tangible and exciting. Jumping into an Aerial Dodge into a Glide feels so good, and you can even Quick Run off a ledge into an Aerial Dodge into a Glide - the movement was so fluid and had real momentum. Air Slide has always felt like a downgrade after that, no matter which game it's in. And while FM added Dodge Roll, which was appreciated, I never felt like it was necessarily missing. Other games use Dodge Roll as a crutch, you're just spamming it constantly, whereas KH2 somehow made it obsolete. Just barfing out some things that feel great about KH2 that really don't in KH3.

This reminds me of when I criticize FFX for example for unbalance and then someone will go "What about this that or that in VII, V, Tactics" or whatever game And what it came down to with those games is how obvious it was. Like in Job System games you need to work your ass off for busted stuff and V and Tactics are normally pretty hard. They're like a reward for cleverness and investment. In VII you gotta be creative and find some out of the way thing or wacky materia combo. And engaging with the game in unoptimal ways feels fun. In X the stuff I criticized were like buffs and debuffs being too good, summons, Overdrives, seeing the turn order, the rock paper scissors of enemy design, instant switching characters, Quick Attack. Some pretty core things that make the game feel easy to me, and there are several of these that combine. (Like seeing Turn Order is a great idea in most games but in X I often felt I just had way too much insight into what to do esp with instant switching). There's no way not to play into that stuff besides challenge runs, these things are right in front of me. And I don't feel empowered doing it.

KH3 fans comparing Final Form Firaga with base Firaga in KH3 has to be the stupidest thing ever. How is that even remotely the same? You get Final Form literally in the last world and you can't even use it on all the bosses there while you get the Fire Cufflink in the third world and the Water Cufflink in the FIRST, meaning you have the strongest magic in the beginning of the game. Also Final Form Firaga at least requires you to get an opening and being up close, while Firaga in KH3 is just homing across the entire arena. Final Form Firaga also drains Final Form insanely quickly and you can't use Final Form again after that. Comparing base Firaga of KH2 with KH3 makes much more sense but they never do that because if they did they'd realise how broken KH3's Firaga is.

Ignoring BB’s overall point to attack a third party’s specific argument, wouldn’t master form be better because of magnet and thunder?

It’s honestly baffling that Hyper Hammer doesn’t give hyper armor. The amount of times I get interrupted trying to use omega finale ugh

Honestly the answer really is just that literally everything is beyond broken on KH2. Stitch is the /most/ broken, but Sora is just constantly overpowered to the point that every option is always a good option. It has the issue of being an absurdly easy game is defo a valid one imo but at least KH2 feels fun

Honestly I had no issue's with KH3 like what people are describing. Attract Flow was garbage, but I had just as much fun messing with ~~all~~most of the other systems. (Personally I don't like Summons in _any_ of the games, but that's consistent for me.) If someone is complaining about how X strategy is broken, that's their problem. They're optimizing the fun right out of the game, and that's their fault.

With the point of “sometimes I just wanna mash x” I hate in KH3 when there is an enemy far below you and instead of doing the attack that quickly goes to the enemy with a downward slash, he just kinda spins downward over and over again.

Ah shit, here we go again.

DISCLAIMER: Please don't take anything I say in this comment by heart. I know everyone's views, opinions and experiences with a game series like this varies. I'm over-generalizing here. Feel free to comment if you disagree! I don't have time to watch the whole vid right now, so excuse me if I'm repeating anything already mentioned, but... I think KH2 players are much more focused on gameplay, pacing, lore and world building than KH3 players. (With KH3 players, I mean people who (re)joined the series with KH3 and primarily experienced that game). A lot of the people who played KH1 (and I guess CoM) back in the day were deep in suspense for what a second big Kingdom Hearts title could be like. They know how a KH should play based on their little experience with the series so far, and they notice the (mostly positive) changes KH2 brought to the table. As I see it, KH3 players (generally speaking, don't feel offended if not) don't really care much for these small gameplay-related things. They are in it much more for the experience and feeling the game gave them. That's not to say KH1 and 2 - as well as the other games - don't have that magic. Far from it in fact! But we long-time fans have been spoiled with a more gameplay-focussed experience I feel like. I personally came back to KH with BbS, and I loved every second of it back then! I have since replayed the Tokyo-team games and, while I still love BbS very much, I can't ignore it's flaws and "floatiness" - as people dub it - anymore. I was kinda let down by KH3 in that regard. But hey, it was still a really enjoyable experience! I'm excited to see how the series will progress now that the Xehanort saga is practically over. I hope they further improve the gameplay for future titles!

When BB talks at almost the end about how KH2 has problems but nobody cares because it's so natural... that's how I feel about KH3. And it's not just the combat, also how the game kind of lets me focus on whatever I want. Don't wanna use Atractions? Here's an ability that disables them and also triggers forms consistenly. Wanna use every form in the game from the beggining? New Game+ lets you do that. You don't wanna farm EXP? Use the EXP multiplier food and you're good to go. The MP bar is too short to enjoy magic? Use the EZ code to give you MP regen. Don't feel like fighting that Ruler of the Sky bullshit in the Caribeann? Use the EZ code to one shot it. Don't want to waste time in gummi ships? Use the EZ code to automatically gain the golden Albatros. Say what you want about KH2, but every time I play I have to do the annoying fifth day, all the gummi missions, farm growth abilities, fight Groundshaker etc. (I still love KH2 though)

Quick side note, somebody really needs to talk about how the presentation of the series got worse as the games went on, and I’m not even going to touch the storytelling. Watching KH1 cutscenes and watching KH3 cutscenes is like watching a young bright kid be zapped with an aging gun and stabbed in the stomach.

LATE NIGHT VIDEO, HELL YEAH

Absolutely feel you on this. Combat in kh3 is exhausting. I turned off attractions and most times I feel like I should've kept them on for crowd control ...

hehehe here I am someone who loves Valour form and its square attacks and auto finishers. Even using it against the games final boss. Something about the attacks are just so fun to me. Which is something they honestly forgot about in kh3. Fun.

I wouldn't spam links in KH3 if the combat was even remotely enjoyable without them

Then FF16 came out and now everyone looks at KH difficulty throughout the series very differently.

The beginning salvo of complaints legitimately don't work because everyone says KH3 Crit is insanely hard. Every single point was dismantled in a single update. It's fascinating how as time goes on this video just gets worse with age.

My experience with KH3 is that it is a good game, but like so many decisions I made didn’t matter. Like yeah the projectiles are different, but ultimately it boiled down to “Water is bad because it comes out slow” and otherwise it was meaningless to consider the difference between them. Reaction Commands expiring also kind of kills most of what’s in them. Like I can’t rely on a formchange in KH3 the same way I rely on Drive in 2FM, so it’s just not part of my strategy. Beyond that, how the hell are those KH2 strats optimal. I’m doing my first crit playthrough right now and just having my one Negative Combo equipped with Guard Break and Explosion is faster than that and I haven’t even added Magnet. Like the one thing I have to mark against KH2FM is it loves its two shot AoE mobs, and it loves to make them adds in early boss fights. That whole interrupt problem you mentioned about Hyper Hammer is a problem I found ai had with every other fight in early crit, Sora doesn’t have many defensive tools other than running away and some enemies outrun him so its possible to just get shafted by 5 enemies attacking with perfect timing so that you can’t avoid or to just get run down by some heartless. That being said I’ve also had the same problem with KH3 on crit so it gets no points.

the comments here really show that people do not pay attention to the khtalks and/or your explanation in general... you have answered all the "actually... kh3 is deeper and u are biased" claims and people still bring those up

Is sad the whole kh community is not consistent with the mecanics of KH II and KH III every game has flaws i know but it makes so perfect and may you ask "Are you played KH II ?" yes i played and some things is so broken for example using stich or using trinity limit + magnet to regain the drive gauge but instead KH III all the broken thing is fire spam is so sad for the community but the staff of the game have decided and for us we have to accept it and it is not bad at all

u a good teacher

I think you made some valid points and while i do agree combat was better, i had way more fun exploring kh3's worlds and traversing them(though i would like them to add some fun rewarding secrets to those world overall they are better). personally i like both. I think kh3 had way better level design and was so much fun to explore levels like toybox and san fransokyo and kh2 had better combat. one thing i dislike is when people compare kh2fm to vanilla kh3 because its not the original product. i feel comparing kh2 vanilla to kh3 vanilla just shows a better comparison because both of them are in their most original state without any additions or changes that happened after release. if you want to compare kh3+remind to kh2fm which are siginificant improvements to the original games i think that is more fair. I think kh3 is fine but i hate the overly hard battles because it goes from being fun to just painful. the data org fights i hated because of their overly difficult nature and were just not fun. that yozora fight was horrible and i did not have fun with any of those fights.it felt more like luck than skill. I think kh3s biggest problem is the combat and its lacks of diversity and speed which combo speed was fixed and so were the combos too but still kh2 definitely had the better combo setup going from magic to explosion or guard break or magnet finish lot of variety. kh2s problem is the levels are boring their is no depth to them and it feels like walking on a flat plane half the time with some jumps thrown in. while kh3 has you climbing toy stores to sailing the open seas to climbing MOUNT FREAKING OLYMPUS to the realm of the greek gods, it feels like im really exploring the world rather than just walking through it. I wish there were some puzzles or secrets to discover like in the beginning of olympus but overall way better than kh2 which the revisits feel a little lazy but i dont blame them i did enjoy them but i prefer the one and done nature of the 3rd game over the 2nds world revisits. I think kh3 had way better world design than kh2 but kh2 had better combat. if you combined the 2 and add some secrets to the worlds it could be the best kh game ever made. I do think kh2 is the better game but kh3 has a lot going for it exploration wise and i want more of the exploration side of things to be expanded upon.

Waited so long for kh3 🙁 wish it was better. ReMind was nice, but had to pay extra for it 😕

My biggest issue with KH3 combat was simply the way things were set up. I often felt I had to handicap myself in order to play the way I wanted, with my preferred fighting style whereas in KH1 and KH2, I didn't feel like I was handicapping myself to play my way, even if it wasn't the "optimal" way to play. Now I know this specific issue has been given a fix, but when I first played the game there was no way to turn off attractions. I dislike attractions. I don't want to use the attractions. Sucks that literally everything extra is bound to the triangle button eh? I'd go to use waterza just as an attraction popped up and WHOOPS I'm on a carousel. Yes, I can cancel out of it, but that has already broken the flow of combat and taken me out of the moment. EDIT: Also when the game forces you to use the roller coaster in the end game is just... No for me. I went through that entire battle specifically not using the roller coaster because I didn't want to use it and the battle did not end. I couldn't defeat the heartless tower without using it. Then there was the floating issue. I hated how I can fight Darkside (Lightside?) in KH3, lock on to his head, spam x and just float up to his head. If I wanted to hit his head for extra damage in KH1 or KH2, I had to plan and plot my way there. And I couldn't hang out forever either. Having to figure out how to use the environment to my advantage in order to hit some bosses (Trickmaster in KH1 probably the best example) was so much fun. In KH3, it's just lock on and mash x to arrive. The final thing is in bosses. I have a specific playstyle in my combat. I like magic and I like combining magic into physical combos and vice versa and I enjoy playing offensive rather than defensive. KH1, I always picked the wand and gave up the shield to get that boost in magic (Ya know, GROUP UP AND HIT IT TILL IT DIES!!!!). KH2, I would pick up the plus to magic then the plus to offense. And the bosses didn't punish me for playing offensively. Yeah, some battles were a bit harder on me than others (Thanks Marluxia and Lingering Will, love our time together always), but it never felt like an impossible challenge to play offensively. In KH3, you are often forced to play by the bosses rules. If a boss wants you to play defensively, then you play defensively. That's not fun to me. I don't want my combat style dictated by a boss. I loved being able to rush Sephiroth and just... Cancel his attack. I try that in KH3 data fights and I'm revenged into oblivion. Being able to stun lock Lingering Will? Beautiful. Fighting Ice Titan in KH1? I wanted to screech because it was the only boss in that game that forced me to play defensively. My style of play makes Saix data fight feel like an impossible challenge that I will never defeat. I still haven't beaten Lingering Will, but it doesn't feel impossible. It just feels like I get him almost down, then choke because HOLY SHIT YOU'RE ALMOST DEAD AH HURRY HIT HIM! HIT HIM! TL;DR KH3 feels like it is trying to dictate my style of combat for me while the other games allow me the freedom to choose. That is why KH3, in my opinion, gets harsher criticism. Because it takes the freedom of choice away. When I die to Dark Aqua, I don't need the death screen telling me "Ya know the pirate ship is cool ;)" I need that death screen to say "Lol you ded, wanna retry immediately or load up a room earlier to manage equipment?"