Why It Would Take $200 Billion To Clean Up America’s School Buses | True Cost | Business Insider 

School busses are probably the best application of battery electric buses, as they don't run all day only before and after school, giving ample time to charge overnight and during school hours.

i like how they keep the classic styling of the old buses for the new fleet

I'm all for public transportation being as efficient and clean as possible. I definitely remember the fumes and that these are cheaper to maintain in the long run. Now if only our society was not built around cars so children could bike, walk, electric scoot, to school. Public transportation to school must also improve.

I’m a school bus driver myself and my district has smaller special need buses and also large regular education buses as well. for me there’s nothing wrong with having both electric for the special needs and diesel for the bigger buses because we all do field trips as well and drives distances that electric buses won’t keep up with.

Electric buses are more logical to be produced than electric cars. Rather than transporting a few people, buses can transport way more, and is used to benefit the public most productively.

At 5:04 it talks about cheaper operating costs, and that they might pay for themselves; I wish you had given more details on that (instead of focusing so much on the initial price tag). What's the average price per mile of diesel vs. electricity, what are the different buses' expected lifespans, etc.

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When I was in high school back in the early 2000's. My school district (Capistrano unified) had one electric bus and my route was the lucky one to use it. But out of the 2 years I used the bus we only used it 2 times if I remember. And the last time we had to transfer buses because it broke down or battery drained.

If America was willing to waste all of that money in the invasion of Afghanistan,then they can find the money for this.

I never rode in a school bus in my life. In my country, we either walked or took the bike (yes even in primary school) and for farther schools such as high schools, we took the train

My question is: Why does a diesel bus cost so much? They're pretty simple boxes filled with cheap seats and an engine.

Man the thomas built buses and international buses are iconic! although the internationals crescent shaped headlights are iconic and futuristic even after 10-15 years! also the name saf-t-liner c2 is etched into memory just above the the door

The only reason why I say its a bad idea is because if your waking up late and your not on the curb you won't know if that bus has pass or is already next to your house lol

I think there’s a real good chance that this could make the change for most school districts however with more rural areas you’re going to need to rely on Diesel engines to get the mileage you need, that or they could build smaller region size school houses for these areas

Around my area in NY im starting to see alot of propane powered school busses which is nice because you can barely smell anything coming put of them where as you can always smell a diesel bus. I will say there should be hybrid versions because i remember in school with field trips and sports games we would travel pretty far sometimes.

My only worry is it like the early Priuses where they mechanically total themselves because their batteries go bad within 7-10 years. Can we support changing the whole fleet in that time frame and what is the ecological cost of lithium. Tho by that time we may have come up with better ways of recycling lithium from used EVs.

You don't need as many stations for electric. You primarily charge at home. I don't think even rural buses are driving 500 miles a route. Idk about like... Wyoming. But in rural Ohio, I think our buses probably did around 80 miles a route. Was like a 90 min route (for a while I was the last one off in afternoon) and going 55, with stops ... Maybe less than 80 even

In many places in the US the buses don't even run on diesel. They run on CNG, and propane.

A regular school bus is 130k but an electric school bus is 400k? Something is fishy here. A battery which is the most expensive part of a conversion doesn’t cost 270,000. Ford electrifying the F150 can still sell them for 45-90k. The bus companies appear to be either profiteering public money to transition to EV and/or sabotaging the transition by inflating the cost

I live in a very rural part of Virginia not far from Fairfax and they would have a hard time having a full electric fleet. The bus I used to ride was at least 100 minutes in the morning and around 90 in the afternoon. And many of the bus drivers live in rural areas so they don’t keep their buses near the schools, that means that the electric company’s need to install chargers at their home

In poor communities this will never happen property taxes won't cover the cost unless it's mandated by the federal government and in that case we will probably be taxed somehow for it.

Why are we talking about doing a compete 100% switch from diesel to electric? Obviously that’s unrealistic, so just do it gradually. So maybe all new buses are electric. Over the coarse of 20 years I’m sure a good amount will be electric vs. diesel.

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They don't have to replace the whole bus, they can just rebuild it. Way greener and probably cheaper

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Ok for cities, not hearty enough for rural areas.

I think the real problem is that there aren’t any easy alternatives to driving for kids to get to school

I think that it would be much more economically viable to convert busses to electric, as opposed to building them from scratch

How insane HORRIBLE are those old American diesel powerd school busses? The way they talk about how much they polutes, you get the impression they have a old, inefficient diesel engine from a WW2 warship or something

Its a good idea when you travel on pavement. Rural areas in the north its not a good choice yet because of temp and distance.Newer diesels have little to no smoke comeing out the tail pipe.A 3126 cat is a very good choice.

Imagine if this was invested into decent public bus routes instead. Children could just take a regular bus, and adults in the community could also make use of the bus network! Rather than having this massive amount of bus infrastructure in place, but only run those buses twice a day (once in each direction) and have the buses sit idle in a parking lot for the rest of the day. The rest of the world has solved the problem of getting children to school without needing a bus network dedicated just to schools.

As a school bus driver I’m am stoked for this to be the norm!! At times you can’t hear the kids nor they hear you and it can be extremely difficult gauging if kids are choking or being bullied and things like that.. stoked!!

To charge these buses during the day it will be great to have rooftop solar panels on the schools or the garage building and if possible the buses themselves. I am from Australia and we have one of the highest rates of rooftop solar in the world.

5 times worse range i don't see how this is the future, the efficiency needs to be a lot better and faster charging

Cool. I'm interested by it, nice. Today school buses are usually that expensive to repair or clean. You might know how to charge it by battery, that's why. But it sounds cool how school buses are done, love it. I think this will work, awesome

$192 billion is nothing... We spend a trillion plus a year on the military in this country. You move $40B a year from the defense department and in 5 years you've replaced the fleet.

I see this video as unrealistically optimistic. We spend more to stop our children from breathing diesel fumes....but now need to generate more electricity, and who's living next to that source of pollution? And have you looked into the lives of the miners and their families, the ones who provide the rare earths for the batteries? We are just dumping the pollution off onto someone else. I don't see that the benefits outweigh the costs for electric buses.

400000 Dollars? Insane.

"battery accounts for 40% of the $400k cost" so the battery is 180k, assuming a 12 year vehicle service time and 8 year battery life (probably less if they are charging that battery in 3 hours) your now talking about going from a 130k vehicle to a 580k vehicle that probably can't handle half days or emergency use if needed for evacuations. That's also not accounting for winter use which will require more frequent battery replacements in cold climates or the child labor this video forgot to mention in the DRC. Let wealthy people buy electric cars to drive technology but we are decades away from practical fleet usage still.

I have one, and it sucks lots of technical issues Not starting, if it dies you need to remove the rear axle, honestly just not that fun, but it is pretty cool We got a grant for around 300k from VW so we got a 400k bus for 100k I would rather drive a diesel bus And idk what kind of busses you got in Virginia but the fumes are not that bad Charging, the closest charging near us (besides the one at our yard I live in Midwest indiana, the closest charging station is on the border of indiana and Michigan

I mean, we sent $50 billion to Ukraine in the span of ~30 days. Just imagine the country we could have if we spent that at home, instead of on weapons. Then again, I really don't know why we can't use an intermediate design serial-mode hybrid with a microturbine or a high boost small DI diesel. EV mode in neighborhoods, hybrid mode on main streets. Still can plug-in as that infrastructure gets built out.

The cost of the bus should go down when battery technology gets better in the future.

As more companies make electric buses, price will go down.

Yeah outside of rural schools this is a great point. Some rural schools like where im from ranges arent long enough yet

They have doubled in price, and still gotta use gear oil,grease,leather is this really what “the green new deal” is to overload the power grid

Hmmmmm, been doing this for 35 years. School districts never have any money to spend on anything so lets see, $400,000 for 4 buses or $400,000 for 1 bus?

The Fumes never bothered me and I rode the bus in the 90’s and never had any “Heath issues” 🙄

What I love is how insane they make that number sound, $200,000,000,000. Just withdraw the next 3-4 $46,000,000,000 payouts to other countries in support of more war efforts we shouldn't be getting involved in, and this could pretty easily be done

This is just waste of money. Old buses can be retrofitted with electric drivetrain. They can run trolley buses. Or just build a city so children can walk to school.

I used to love the diesel exhaust in the 80's. That's why I sat in the back of the bus.

I'm a school bus driver. Buses are constantly breaking down (internationals and thomas) mainly and they're made on 2021/2022 i can just picture the constant mechanical failure these buses are going to constantly be in lol. Bluebirds are made to last btw

I’d say save the diesel ones for long road field trips and electric ones to pick up and drop off kids from school and take only street roads also saves your battery for all day then.

Did anyone else notice she had no seat belt on, which has been proven fatal in wrecks

Rest in peace , school bus sound 😢

I think there needs to be a trial run before switching completely. May try running electric busses in small groups in different areas and different weather and climate for say 5 yrs and see how long they last. How the batteries last over time and how different weather affects them. I mean dessert heat could cause them to explode or Maine winters could kill them. Long trips would be an issue. Say your taking field trip or could be to a nationals event. The range would be issue. My other concern is if something happens to bus and they are stranded. How long will heater last in winter time. I mean a diesel bus broke down to idle for hours while a electric bus could only last an hour(hypothetical numbers) until help could arrive in case of a crash or snow storm or any other issue that could arise. These are all examples of issues we need to field test before we jump feet first. If the batteries only last 5 yrs due to weather conditions that's approximately $160,000 we as tax payers would have to pay to replace the batteries in one unit let a lone a fleet especially if you have to place 100-1000 all at once. That's a lot of money. Then there is disposal of batteries after they are depleted which is an whole nother issue because just like the batteries in your remote they do die and the chemical that are hard to dispose of. I an not against electric vehicles. They have a time and place. I feel we need more information and experience over long term and how we are going to deal with them for the next 100-200 yrs not just the next 5 yrs

I literally call this “an oven on wheels” because it gets really hot in the bus. How we already thinkin of electric busses when there’s no ac.

you cant just multiply the price for a single bus with the current productionnumbers as they get cheaper the more you build.

Hopefully there are plans to offset the larger demand on the power grid by installing solar panels. If not then the busses are just running off coal.

Another point for electric busses is the low speed city type driving is more more efficient on an electric powertrain than an ice one. Electric motors are even more beneficial with low speeds and frequent stops so in theory the range per kwh should be on par with other electric vehicles instead of being worse due to the weight of a bus.

The gauntlet 🤣. I grew up with those buses and worked in a garage with my dad. I'm 27 and my lungs are fine.

By replacing the old Diesel engine of the old busses with a new 2022 one would probably already reduce consumption by 50% and also reduce pollution by even more. And it would be cheaper option than electrified. New ones just design then electric.

Not something that can happen overnight for sure but with increasing fuel costs EVs usage in things like school bus fleets will continue to grow. In the urban/suburban environment it removes a lot of diesel exhaust from the mix so even if the power comes from not so green sources it is much easier to scrub power plant exhaust than it is individual vehicles. Since electrical generation and distribution is moving toward more renewables and grid storage it will probably get cleaner over time.

Put pedal-to-alternator mechanisms at all the seats so the kids help charge the things and sleep a bit better.

From the title, I thought it would cost $200B to actually CLEAN them. I was catfished 😂

Electric public transport has bigger and better implications, and i will say it makes more sense than electric cars. This is because a bus in this case has the time to charge up properly without running into issues like whether the power is 120V or 240V.

The propane's that my district have and the Compressed Natural Gas (CNG) others have are not as bad either, they're quieter and don't emit as bad of fumes, they both also considered "green".. they're just very expensive, the electric ones are insane of how much they cost and districts have to get a lot of help from the states to pay for them, the upkeep is also expensive

Nuclear nuclear nuclear! The cleanest and most powerful type of electricity we can have! Don't be scared of the name, it's much cleaner than any other source on earth!

In all my high school years of sitting in the back back of the bus, I’ve never had an issue with fumes unless they were coming from other students. There’s this thing called Diesel exhaust fluid, makes it safer to breathe. Not saying school busses shouldn’t convert to electric, but the fumes from modern busses aren’t bad at all. With that being said, I’ll gladly buy a used diesel bus for a project 🙃

Obviously the transition would have to take at least a decade but just to convert 50% of busses, it's absolutely feasible at an annual US budget price 9.6B

How about trains and better pedestrian infrastructure? These buses are probably much heavier and will destroy the roads faster and I'd imagine cost more to maintain too. The depreciation of all the involved assets will cost the taxpayers a ton in the long term compared to creating alternative modes of transport that have all the design and infrastructure problems solved already. Imagine if U.S. cities actually had safe sidewalks/bike routes.

That's why i only drove CNG or gasoline school buses. CNG is similiarily convenient like electric buses; you only need to plug them in at the end of the day. 8:30 Fun fact, in California school buses can't idle for more than 30 seconds before departing. That resolves that issue.

One thing that should be done instead of building all new buses is rebuilding the guts of older school buses. Many of the older school buses still have strong bones and just need the updates of newer school buses. Look at Wabtec and their reuse of old train locomotives. Automotive companies should invest their time in keeping older buses operational.

I'm actually building an electric school conversion... that will charge off of 16 250watt solar panels on the roof

What is the environmental impact of mining all the minerals needed to make the batteries? Where does the energy for charging the batteries come from? Is there infrastructure in place and how much does that cost? Are fossil fuels used to create the electricity? What is the bigger plan?

As a student, I hate walking through the buses. The fumes are horrible!

Cobalt is frequently brought up when people discuss electric vehicles. Yet these buses are probably using cobalt free batteries. Yeah, we still see a lot of cobalt in laptops, cell phones, and cobalt is used to refine gasoline, it’s an airbags, transparent, glass, high-speed machine, tools, etc.

bruh thats my highschool😂 Love that diesel smell, almost as good as a basement smells

Instead of focusing on good education they worry about getting rid of diesel

I thought that there were some very efficient pollution collecting systems for Diesel engines. Might that be a better way to start.

If the US government can budget a trillion dollars to their military, then they can afford 200 billion to go to schools that can replace the old diesel busses with Ebuses

Might work well because busses usually go to a depot after most runs

2:23 the more important number is "life cycle cost." For example, what is the cost of diesel or EV bus after 20 years

This is a great advancement for our society. I am a bass drummer at a high school and for home games we stand directly behind a school bus in order to load the bass drums and drum stands into the bus since they can’t fit through the door. The bus is used to take us to the stadium and the fumes from the exhaust is unbearable and most often we are forced to wear a mask in the 100 degree texas heat just to avoid inhaling the fumes. I hope my district can move toward these busses as soon as possible

if the us stopped spending on military for 1 year they could replace these buses 4 times

7:50 None of which are accessed by school buses EVER. They all refuel centrally, as do TAXI services. A Bus doesn't even fit under the pergola of most standard petrol stations.

As kid who has been taking the bus to school for 16 years I can say I have never had any problems smelling the diesel fuels in the cabin only way you can smell the diesel fumes inside of the cabin is if there’s an exhaust leak do to rust and I live in Michigan so there’s a lot of rust Which means older school buses probably smell like shit cause of the diesel fumes but the oldest bus I went in was built in 2009 because it has a little metal plate on the roof that tells you when it’s built, but she’s definitely right about walking on the side of the buses because at my school we had a huge bus loop and my bus was all the way by the front gate so I had to do a five minute walk passed 21 diesel buses fumes every day, it’s annoying but after the first two minutes you forget about it almost like pumping gasoline smell it gives

I know there are safety considerations but I wonder if school buses could be used for classic public transportation during school hours, cleaning a bit more. Maybe it would help with quicker ROI if they were shared with public transportation entities.

21 year Diesel mechanic here. This video is misleading. The intro to the video shows a bus exhaust blow smoke. Most busses are 2010 and newer in general. They have DPF after treatment systems. They don’t smoke at all. Only early 2000s and before 00s smoke. CNG is a better option…. It’s not feasible to use electric for Heavy duty trucks. This video make it look like every bus pukes out dangerous fumes. You can put your face in diesel exhaust and not taste it for trucks with after treatment. Public schools are on a tight budget. The government would have to help out a lot. I can see private schools going electric. They have the funds.

In many rural areas the infrastructure is not suitable for the amounts of electricity that EVs will need to be charged. Also the batteries are more expensive to replace when they go bad than the vehicles. I support EVs in urban areas, but for rural areas like mine, they have no practicality.

the only problem whit that they will not last 40 years,and after they go to hell we have to paid again and probably if you get 7 years out good luck,

Great job

I wish you would have researched more. If the Total cost of ownership is cheaper, the initial starting price won’t matter. What cell type is used? LFP or NMC? What are the implications on maintenance?

$400000 for electric bus!! This is way too expensive, and yeah the battery you'll replace in every 6 years. It's way too expensive to maintain as well.

Compressed Natural Gas (CNG) or propane powered buses overall end up having less of a lifetime environmental impact, are cost efficient to build as well as maintain, have a longer service life, operate with the same or better range than diesel units & can be fully recycled unlike it's electric alternatives. The downside is bus lots would need to invest in fueling equipment.

As a child I would have a killer headache sitting in the back of the bus everyday in those cancer boxes.

Ngl sitting in the back of those yellow busses back in like 2002 you could feel the diesel in air. Never really thought about it. But its funny to think about it now.

Golly, what a glowing endorsement for electric buses. And all you can say for the the pollution caused by the battery production and power generation for them is "we kinda sorta don't know" and them breeze by any deeper look into that?

Unbelted and diesel powered? Not a good look in the future... Just saying... Doesn't really send a message that kids are the future. Especially when you are finding out what's inside the school is just as scary... SMH! There should be a national EV bus mandate and it should have been in place already! But since you're getting around to it...

Interesting video but it misses one key point. The manufacturing of these batteries. To manufacture each EV battery, you must process 25,000 pounds of brine for the lithium 30,000 pounds of ore for the cobalt 5,000 pounds of ore for the nickel, 25,000 pounds of ore for copper Diging up 500,000 pounds of the earth's crust For just - one - battery. And thats only for a average car battery, let alone a larger one for a bus. And setting aside polution, look at what it takes to mine materials for these batteries. Over 40,000 children, some as young as 6 years old, work in cobalt mines. Often working in tight spaces underground without proper safety equipment or procedures, child laborers face serious risks of injury or death. So by wanting electric buses because of your child health, you are essentially arguing that your child breathing diesel fumes for 30 seconds while walking past the bus is worse that 6 year olds working in deathly cobalt mines. I don't intend to be harsh, but just felt like I needed to share some of this, since the video seemed a bit too one-sided.

What if we bring back cable systems and have the busses only be boxes on wheels. Would take less power to move them, early green and the batteries are cut out. It would just be are current busses, but gutted, and a selection of cable options can be used on each root. Public transit could use these same cables, perhaps deliveries and utilites too