Tactics aren't rocket science, and they aren't secrets only professionals know. A lot of "tactical" leo and mil do not like being confronted with the fact that shooting is not a skill dispensed with their badge, rank, or paycheck.
@@Kyle-sr6jm "tactics" and "shooting" I put into two separate categories. To some? Shooting is shooting. Shooting is literally just that. Cool, I can shoot. Cool, I did great on that bill drill. Dope, my BEAR solutions cold start I did pretty good on but could be better. Im former Mil, I was in special operations and I'll be the first to tell you my former profession did not give me any insane shooting skills what so ever. What it DID give me however was the know how of working together as a unit or a team to accomplish an end goal where guns were our tool to do that. Thats the military for you. Guns were just the tool and our job comes with alot more than just shooting. I wish there were more humble guys out there who used to shoot people for a living to understand that. We werent the best shooters because our training encompasses alot more than that and so does the job. And thats why to a guy like me, a shooting competition just doesnt "interest" me. It's not me hiding to show I'll get my ass handed to me by some GM shooter. I know I will. But if I took that GM shooter into combat? He wont know what to do other than just that. To shoot. I need him to do alot more than that. Some people just prioritize it all different. If were all training in kit to be good shooters to be good enough to place decent in competition....well, thats cool. But how many civi's in my circle know how to address a gunshot wound? Literally none of them. Weird concept to me they even have IFAKs and dont know what any of that stuff inside their IFAK does other than their TQ's. As if thats the end all, be all of treating a gunshot wound. None of them know how to use a radio properly, read a map, move in certain formations, know any battle drill to engage an enemy position. They can just shoot. Thats why to some? Like Mojo or myself? Competition just isnt for us. It doesnt "interest" us. We like to train on everything else too. Talking LEO (im not LEO myself but half my immediate family is), shooting ALSO is not their job. Their job is to "enforce" the "law" (hence the name), theyre not always shooting people. As a matter of fact, the focus on their job is quite the opposite and it's to talk people down so they dont have to shoot them (ofcourse depending on the situation). De-eseclation of Force is their main tool, the gun isnt even secondary. Non lethals are the secondary, Then the gun comes after that (again, situation dependent). I would much rather a cop be more well trained on Deescalation of Force than shooting or every police encounter in the world would just end in someone dying if thats what they focused on the most. Should they still be "good" shooters? Absolutely. But shooting isnt their job.
Before I started shooting USPSA and IDPA I always assumed I was just the average EDC guy. I knew I could pass a concealed carry class, probably defend myself from an attacker, did a little time in the Marines (no combat), couple armed rent a cop jobs. Then I started competition and realized I could beat every SWAT guy that showed up to a match and it changed my perspective quite a bit. Not that im hot shit, im happy to get top half in a match. It just showed me that the level of practice you can have as a civilian (once a week or two live fire, dry fire 2-5 mins a day) puts you at a higher skill level than what is considered the high skilled professional.
The "killed on tha streetz" arguments come from people that either a) haven't shot competitions, b) don't have any tactical training, or c) both. I move with the gun pointed downrange at competitions because those are the rules there. I did a training event this fall and was call upon to move with a gun in my hand in one evolution. I instantly went to "temple index" in spite of not practicing that in years and in spite of having done the "muzzle downrange" thing at competitions regularly for years. Get effective training and practice what you're taught and you'll ingrain those habits.
All the law enforcement guys I know that care about training recommend competition because it puts pressure on you. But the bad habits are also worrisome
Retired law enforcement and it’ll help you as long as you don’t game it. I shot for decades. There is a game aspect. Running up and stopping in the open to get as close as possible when passing cover. Not using magnetic holsters and using what you carry. Shooting a completion gun instead of duty or EDC Carrying Extendo mags instead of what you actually use so your scores will be higher These are examples but I can also make a long list of great things it’ll do for you as you shoot competitions. Go Leave the ego. Don’t worry about scores and times and standings. Just go and be the best you that you can be on that day.
When I saw the title I was prepared to hear a whole lot of nonsense but this was actually a great response. Ultimately USPSA is about shooting accurately quickly. The "gaming" stuff has very very little significance and it's always someone salty about getting beat by a better shooter that claims the gaming is why they lost. It's not until you get to a very high level in competition shooting that gaming is of any importance to a match finish.
@Hunt & Shoot I agree when it come down to 1st and 5th, but the people using "gaming" as an excuse aren't the ones in 5th. They're usually in the bottom half of the field waaay below where they think they should be, and then say that's because they didn't game it.
"You can train to win the fight, or you can train to win the the game, but you can't do both". That's what we used to say. For instance, there is no real emphasis on use of cover in the game. It's about how fast you complete the course, so "gaming" the course is using equipment you would never use in a real fight or possibly fudging tactics meant to save your life, but they add time during the game, and since no one is shooting back, you forgo them. You know it that would get you killed in a fight, but you do it to win the game. The problem with that is, you always end up fighting the way you trained. Some things do translate but many things don't and it's those things that don't that save your life when the bullets are going both ways. There are some matches that I think can help a person train, as long at they are used for training, and not "gamed" in the ways I mentioned. One of those type of games is the two gun matches, like the Brutality Matches (Desert, Woodland, Winter, & Finnish) put on by In Range and others. I think they are the best for training and minimize those things that don't translate to the real fight. In a nut shell, I do think competition can be a good training tool, but don't expect to win.
You miss the point competition isnt supposed to mimic real life or cqb but doing competition will improve your cqb check out the info matt little swatt guy and sof guy he explains this in depth
When you train everything all at once, all the time, nothing really improves. USPSA is about shooting fast and accurate through a dynamic course of fire. When you can do that really well, you can layer on other skills effectively. Every mil/leo unit shoots drills or quals on a flat range without cover or opposing forces, yet people say competition isn't real.
"tactics" and "shooting" I put into two separate categories. To some? Shooting is shooting. Shooting is literally just that. Cool, I can shoot. Cool, I did great on that bill drill. Dope, my BEAR solutions cold start I did pretty good on but could be better. Im former Mil, I was in special operations and I'll be the first to tell you my former profession did not give me any insane shooting skills what so ever. What it DID give me however was the know how of working together as a unit or a team to accomplish an end goal where guns were our tool to do that. Thats the military for you. Guns were just the tool and our job comes with alot more than just shooting. I wish there were more humble guys out there who used to shoot people for a living to understand that. We werent the best shooters because our training encompasses alot more than that and so does the job. And thats why to a guy like me, a shooting competition just doesnt "interest" me. It's not me hiding to show I'll get my ass handed to me by some GM shooter. I know I will. But if I took that GM shooter into combat? He wont know what to do other than just that. To shoot. I need him to do alot more than that. Some people just prioritize it all different. If were all training in kit to be good shooters to be good enough to place decent in competition....well, thats cool. But how many civi's in my circle know how to address a gunshot wound? Literally none of them. Weird concept to me they even have IFAKs and dont know what any of that stuff inside their IFAK does other than their TQ's. As if thats the end all, be all of treating a gunshot wound. None of them know how to use a radio properly, read a map, move in certain formations, know any battle drill to engage an enemy position. They can just shoot. Thats why to some? Like Mojo or myself? Competition just isnt for us. It doesnt "interest" us. We like to train on everything else too. Talking LEO (im not LEO myself but half my immediate family is), shooting ALSO is not their job. Their job is to "enforce" the "law" (hence the name), theyre not always shooting people. As a matter of fact, the focus on their job is quite the opposite and it's to talk people down so they dont have to shoot them (ofcourse depending on the situation). De-eseclation of Force is their main tool, the gun isnt even secondary. Non lethals are the secondary, Then the gun comes after that (again, situation dependent). I would much rather a cop be more well trained on Deescalation of Force than shooting or every police encounter in the world would just end in someone dying if thats what they focused on the most. Should they still be "good" shooters? Absolutely. But shooting isnt their job.
I'm willing to admit that I posses a certain trepidation . . . perhaps one may call it fear . . .of being around a bunch of armed people I don't know and trust.
USPSA is awesome for work/SWAT enforcement actions. Moving and shooting is well…. Moving and shooting! I don’t often get to decide when and where guns come out… and if I do I would just avoid it and call in the Calvary.
@@GunMagWarehouseTV Definitely been there before. Lavalier or dual boom mics will work better for this setup. You guys make great content that deserves to be heard in all its glory.
I’m so tired of this argument. If you don’t want to “game” it at a competition then don’t game it. Shoot the match how you want as long as it stays within the rules. Most local matches don’t care what gear or gun you use. If you’re shooting it to get better with your duty gear or EDC gear then just shoot the match. Don’t sign up for an Area match where they enforce gear rules, just go shoot a local match where they are way more forgiving and will just put you into a division that it doesn’t matter and it shouldn’t matter if you’re just shooting to get better. All this bullshit about gaming is nonsense. It’s an ego check. Most people are competitive and don’t want to get beat by someone they think is inferior to them. Let go of your ego, go shoot and become a better shooter. Just because it’s a “game” doesn’t mean you actually have to “game” it. This argument is so fucking annoying. Go shoot to get better, leave your ego at home and enjoy yourself. Shoot it tactically if you want. You don’t have to “game” anything.
@@GunMagWarehouseTV ahh I see. Well what would real life application have to do with the game? A game is purposely set up with parameters for a reason. Those rules become the application. So use those rules. It's a game
@@920WASHBURN exactly. if the game is USPSA its shooting a bunch of targets fast and your course of action for a USPSA match would be vastly different from a real life gunfight. So a lot of military guys who end up losing to civilians say its cause they "gamed" it.
well said. but in arizona, especially phoenix s.a.u., mesa pd swat, and most phx area agencies swat teams are all uspsa freakazoids! they all compete and totally hooked on uspsa and foam at the mouth if a match is cancled lol. infact they throw thier own uspsa match once a year at rio salado for all agencies to have fun and kick back. all fun aside, they will often say competition rules have never hindered their ability to operate or caused bad habits while operating, and that uspsa has been more helpfull than any other thing to help them maintain the actual skill of shooting itself, and that it even gives them more cinfidence in eachother when they operate that their teamates by their side have solid fundamentals. uspsa is not tactics, its just shooting
Let's get real and honest here. (Btw I dabbled in Mil and Leo) Civilians kick military and Leo's butts in competition and they don't like it. I competed in some top open Sniper competitons in the 1990s. There is the reason military/Leo quit showing up. They were losing! I personally saw the Elite in military and Law enforcement lose to a 17 year old kid and a 60 year old fish and game employee. Heck, I was out shooting most of the military snipers, with their tricked out rifles, while shooting a Savage 110 tactical. The best and brightest don't go into the military. Sorry to hurt feelings. The athletic ones get sports scholarships and the smart ones get academic scholarships. Generally the C- students with no other prospects join the military and become bro vets or wave the flag around and talk about what battle hardened veterans they are.
@danielpickrell8311 I imagine that the same civilians at the higher echelons of skill can be taught and trained to thrive in that arena. This level of athlete are capable of doing amazing things. The same dna of top tier mil people who just happened to be in different careers
For those who've never shot a competition here's the QRD >you normally pay an entry fee (unless you're an e-celeb). fees range from 20-200 USD. not joking >you start the day with an overlong safety briefing given by someone who sounds like a robo-caller >before each stage you'll get another safety briefing, a QRD of the course of fire, and a briefing on the various inane rules of the stage >an overwhelming majority of your time will be spent standing around doing absolutely nothing. At first you'll watch other competitors but you'll quickly get bored and pull out your phone >if you're unlucky you'll be tabbed to set the shooting stages >if you're really unlucky you'll be sworn into the brass police >you'll spend about 5 minutes of your day actually pulling a trigger at the end of it all, if you're not a complete retard, you'll realize that between gas, food, entry fee, and ammo you spent about ten times more money per shot at this jabroni competition than you did on a normal range day. All for the privilege of meeting a bunch of people who think blasting poppers on a flat range makes them a Audie fucking Murphy
Competitive sport shooting is not a direct substitute for tactical defensive training by no means with maybe IDPA being the exception, but it is still far superior to the everyday civilian than simply going to a static range. Gaming requires the shooter to learn to navigate a course of fire and weapon manipulations while maintaining their 180, all while simulated stress is thrown on via the shot timer and squad watching your every move from behind. Again, it's better than standing still dumping rounds downrange. There is also what Rob Leatham said about gaming vs. tactical training, and I'm paraphrasing. Though not an ex military tactical guru who has seen tons of action, you still do not want to get in a gun fight with me. 😂
