"I love winter but winter sucks" is a big mood. I love winter, but he's a raging ball of therapy sessions, and what he needs is a friend. Multiple. Friends and time to deconstruct.
I used to be a big Winterwatcher shipper. But now that I’m older, something comes to mind: How did Winter ever have a crush on Moonwatcher if he always had trust issues with her?
Fair fair. I think it's very possible for people to have conflicting emotions and I would argue that this is what defines Winter as a character - he's almost always in conflict with himself, especially at the start. Emmanuel also brings up some really good points!
Yeah, I agree. It just doesn’t make sense. I feel like it would end up as a toxic relationship - they would be in love first, but the bitter feelings would soon wash over. Like Foeslayer and Arctic.
I also think Winter is a great character but there is one key difference between him and Qibli. Both had a bit of a messed up childhood in different ways. Winter (or sometimes people who like him) use his past to excuse his poor actions. Winter is chained by his past, but Qibli isn’t. Qibli’s response to his upbringing isn’t one of bitterness, but more of acceptance and the desire to have no one experience what he did. He uses his past as a reason to act kind, instead of Winter who uses it to defend his hatred.
Keep in mind tho that Quibli had several years with Thorn to grow as a person where as Winter was still actively dealing with his abusive family when the events of the books happened
What really won me over with Moonwatcher and Qibli as a couple is how much the two of them need each other in their lives to help them deal with their biggest mental struggles. Moon’s biggest flaw is that she’s shy and scared she’ll mess things up with her powers. Her mother told her it was “a curse” and Darkstalker told her it was “to make herself powerful and feared” by others. Qibli was the only one who ever told her that her powers could be used for good by helping other dragons. It’s only after that when she gained real confidence in herself and stopped being ashamed of her powers. Qibli also calmed her down on repeated occasions when she got too stressed out by the situation. Whether it was silly jokes or fake confidence, he was always able to keep her in the game and help her continue to push forward in achieving her goals. Moon needs someone like Qibli to soothingly encourage her not to blame herself when things go wrong and to warmly remind her that everything will be alright in the end. Moon once said that “she needs him for his kindness, humor, and good listening”. This is what she meant: her childhood being completely isolated from everyone else and always having nightmares about horrific futures made her mentally unstable, and Qibli is always understanding and gives her comfort, representing exactly what she wants to see in others and keeping her optimism up. Qibli’s biggest flaw is that he feels useless and ordinary with the way he is. His mother never loved him and that drove him into trying to make as many dragons as possible like him just to prove to himself that he’s not a “waste of scales”. Moon was the one who told him exactly what he needed to hear: she put it firmly in his mind that he’s great the way he is. She’s constantly praising him for his clever ideas and making sure he knows she’s serious about the compliments she gives him. Even Thorn doesn’t make that great of an effort to build his self-esteem because she doesn’t know how much he’s hurting inside. Moon reminded him of all the selfless things he’s done and how clever he is and that he doesn’t need any poisoned magic to be special and amazing. It’s only after that when he truly stops feeling so empty and becomes content with the way he is, no longer desiring for magic powers or other rare abilities. Qibli needs someone like Moon to drive his childhood horrors away by reminding him how much good he’s doing for the world and keeping an eye out for whenever he’s feeling down on himself. Qibli once said that he is like “a broken vase and Moon is the piece that would fit him back together”. This is what he meant: his family broke his self-esteem away from him as a child with constant scolding and bullying, and Moon has the power to repair it for him with her warmhearted praise. Moon and Qibli are very understanding with each other and they both put in the full effort to be the partner that the other one needs. For these reasons, I truly believe they make the perfect couple. Their story was only ever going to end one way, and this video did a fantastic job explaining why. I really hope it shines a new light into the hearts of readers to show just how special the two of them are together.
Oh. My. Goodness. Can you write the script for like every other video I make ever? This analysis was so good! When I was putting this video together, I originally wanted to include a section on Qibli and Winter's individual character arcs and how Moon was the key to Qibli's (finding a sense of self worth despite not being "special" in any of the conventional ways) but irrelevant to Winter's (finding a sense of self worth by overcoming the harmful views of his family/tribe). But I couldn't figure out how to make it clear and engaging enough for the video - your comment here does that so well AND adds on Qibli's importance in Moon's arc too!
@@JadeMountainArchive I’m really glad you like it! I’d totally be up for dishing out more analysis writing on WOF topics if you ever want to make community posts about idea discussions or something like that. I admire the videos you’ve made and would be happy to add input if you ever want more ideas when writing out your scripts.
@@TrickyTalon23 Do you have a discord or something that'd be easier to communicate over than a youtube comments section? You can email jademountainarchives@gmail.com if you'd rather not put contact info online haha.
I agree with everything here and love Moon and Qibli , though I do wish the books would have ended Winters arc by him finding love in someone else, or at least have him get over Moon. As it is, the books sorta did Winter dirty. He left his tribe, his home, and essentially exiled himself for Moon-And while it was the right thing to do, he still only did it for Moon. As far as we know, he still loves her. It wasn’t really a happy ending for him. I’m not saying Moon SHOULD have gotten with him, just that he should’ve gotten his own happy ending. But that’s just my thoughts.
@@JadeMountainArchive I do too, and it sorta sucks he just faded into the background after Winter Turning. Especially when he had such a large role in Moon Rising.
I actually think that the best thing Winter needed for himself after the events of Arc 2 was time alone to reflect and rebuild himself. That’s exactly what he got and by Book 14 he was a lot better.
Yeah, I completely agree with you. Winter is one of my favourite characters, but Qibli is just way better for Moon. I don't think he even really loved Moon, but more the idea of being in a relationship with her and being allowed to do what he wants for once. And I don't think Moon really liked him either, and she obviously didn't trust him, since she didn't tell him about what happened to Darkstalker.
She was also scared of him too, which is fair because he threatened her a lot. She honestly might have been afraid that he would lash out at her again. Though considering she didn't trust him very much to begin with I doubt she would have trusted him with this huge secret.
I was re-reading through book 8, and i was surprised to see when moon got angry and made herself seem larger and intimidating. And winter was the one arguing with her.
I'm kind of torn because I used to be a huge Winterwatcher shipper, but I COMPLETELY agree that a Moon x Winter relationship would not have been healthy AT THE TIME. Also, I feel like his upbringing just denied him the chance to show his softer side, because that was looked down upon in the Ice Kingdom. I'm not trying to excuse Winter's actions, of course, but if, for example, he'd been born into a differnt tribe, I think he would have been a lot kinder to Moon. And through the second arc, you can see his character development, and by book 14 he's in a much better place, and would probably be more ready for a relationship at that point. Not specifically with Moon, just in general. Just my opinion. I've never been a huge Moonbli fan, but I agree its the healthiest. Though Qinter is also pretty amazing. ;)
I used to be a strong Winterwatcher shipper, but then I read a really, REALLY bad fan fic supporting Winterwatcher. Winter had a completely different personality. Moonwatcher seemed to prefer Winter for no reason. They made Qibli look like he had 50 IQ. Half the characters had the same personality (both canon characters and characters that weren't canon). The one time Qibli did end up going on a date with Moon in that fan fic, it turned out that Moon had been under a love spell. The author of the story said that he put it in there for the Moonbli shippers. Things like this kept on happening over and over again. At one point Moonwatcher started avoiding Qibli for no reason at all. That was the last straw. I had enough. I simply couldn't read anymore of that. As I finished the 2nd arc of wings of fire I began noticing more and more holes in the common arguments for Winterwatcher and more and more reasons for why Moonbli would work out. Not only this, but I found some very well written Moonbli fan fics. And then I finished Darkness of Dragons, when Moon and Qibli officially became gf and bf. And that was how I went from one of the biggest Winterwatcher fans to one of the biggest Moonbli fans.
I don't really ship Winterwatcher or Moonbli, but when Moonbli turned out to be canon, I wasn't a massive fan. But now, after your video, I COMPLETELY understand why it was canon, and you are the only person who explained the fact so well that it convinced me. You really don't have enough credit for your videos; I love them ;)
Hahaha, glad I could help you understand the ship! However, I will say that just because something fits the themes of the books doesn't mean it fits the themes of your heart - enjoy what you enjoy and ship what you ship whether or not there's a reason to!
Something I even noticed in moon rising was the first scene of Winter meeting Moon when she rescued the scavenger, when Qibli comes in to interfere, Moon points out how Qiblis's tail was twitching towards Winter's direction, almost as if he was willing to hurt winter if he would to hurt moon or anyone infact.
I’m not going against you, but I’m going to say why he yells at moon. His whole life in the ice kingdom, he was taught to be tough and scary like an ice wing, and most of all, never trust a nightwing. This inflicted his personality, view, and communication with Moon. But his emotions were completely mixed up because he had a huge crush on her, and she was somehow different from how the ice wings described them. His tribe was furious at him for such ways. But he betrayed his tribe to save her and his friends. In book 7 the scene where Moon was being attacked by ShapeShifter, he betrayed his icewing ways and instincts, and came to save her. He pretended to be dead, in order so Foeslayer could be free, he ruined the ice caves and gave his brother what he wanted. He left the ice kingdom and Jade Mountain academy so he can do what he loves most. And in book 14, when Moon arrived, he became less hostile to Moon, but more patient and awkward. What that means is, in the ice kingdom, he was yelled at to be tough, he was abused, which changed his personality. But his reaction to Qibli and Moon was docile, which shows that if he grew up somewhere else, he would be more kind and loving. Sorry for the long speech XXD again I’m not going against you, I’m just saying. I feel like Winter is hated because he was raised to be mean. We need to give the little ice boi another chance.
First of all - yes, yes, yes! I totally agree here. Winter started out the way he did because his background gave him little other choice and, in spite of that, he grew a lot as a character. He may be on his third or fourth chance by now, but he definitely deserves them because he's had to overcome a lot. I hope he finds love elsewhere in future books. Second of all - don't apologize for articulating your thoughts! I love it when people bring their own ideas to the table :)
I do sympathize with Winter but I believe Qibli was the best choice. He could control his emotions more and Winter just wasn't healed (with him being scarred and all) enough to be in a relationship.
I ship Winterwatcher still, but I know the ship's never gonna happen. I knew Moon was going to choose Qibli in the beginning because he's the nice guy, and I respect that. I really hope my icy boi does find love tho :D
Finally! I was always of the opinion that Moon choosing Qibli was super obvious and I'm so glad someone finally made a video on it. There are a lot of WoF RU-vidrs that share some of my views on the book but not others but this is the first channel I've found that I really agree with. It's nice to have a video that breaks things down because this explains exactly why Winterwatcher was never going to happen.
I don’t really like Moon, but I’m starting to see the Moonbli’s shippers point of view. I am starting to like Moonbli more, but I’m still interested in the stark contrast of Winter and Moon in the world of fanfiction. I think Moonbli shippers like characters getting to a point where their relationship is healthy, and Winterwatcher shippers like the drama of their dynamics.
Hmmmmm....well at the end of the 10th book in the epilogue prologue (forgot what means what) I would say Kinkajou and Winter are in love by the words said to each over
I feel like Tui T. Sutherland sort of dumped Winter. He's just known for his cameos and name drops now. He deserves a bit more. Winter is an underrated main character. I mean they already had Moon and Qibli save the world in the last subseries so why not Winter. The prophet dragonets(who are now basically dragons) have all had their moments. Winter still has his plot with his brother(which honestly Tui T. Sutherland should make him evil or mind controlled so that it would make the story line more exciting and tragic) and he's...alone. I also feel like every character who has gotten a book so far other than Sundew's have gotten a relationship. Again, Winter is just in the sanctuary sulking.
Didn't Sundew have a relationship? Also, I doubt that Snowfall was in any relationship. I don't think Sunny is either. I'm not sure whether Clay and Peril are in a relationship with each other.
@@LiteraIIy_Nobody Yes, Sundew is with Willow, one of Tui's better romantic subplots if I'm to be honest. Snowfall has some ship bait with Sky in Book 14, which just... no, it's more shoehorned in than Ripnami in Book 2. Peril and Clay have been locked in will-they-won't-they territory since Book 1.
OH FUN FACT: In Winter turning page 117 a paragraph states, "Moon gave him an odd, searching look. Her teardrop scale caught the moonlight on one side and the firefly lamp in the other, gleaming as though one was ice and the other was gold Now I don't know if you mentioned this because I haven't watched the video fully yet, but hey there's a fact.
I loved moon as soon as I read her book. I like moonbli better than winterwatcher, because winter made me angry and he gave me narcissistic vibes at some points. although I read his book the quickest, it was very interesting. qibli always gave me more supportive vibes, and I liked how he analyzed everyone from what we got in moon’s mind. he’s very observant and quick-minded, and seems like he could help her through stuff better than winter could.
Yeah, tbh, from the start I was always, ‘yep, moonbli will definitely be canon’ and to see that all thrown out in an explanation is pretty cool! Great vid, great content! (Also btw the link isn’t in desc.)
Coming from a former Winterwatcher, I think Qibli was the best choice for Moon. When I first read the second Wings of Fire arc, I was hoping that Winter and Moon would get together as a sort of "Foeslayer and Arctic done right". Now that I'm older and having re-read the second arc, I see now that it would have been Foeslayer and Arctic all over again if Moon and Winter got together. Winter still had a lot to learn, and given how abusive he could be without ever apologizing for it, he definitely wasn't ready for a relationship. I didn't really understand his crush on Moon because of that reason. I'm glad that Winter's a much better and understanding dragon by the third arc (to the point of being unrecognizable to an extent), but it's too late now. Qibli, meanwhile, understands Moon. Yes, him constantly wanting her approval can get annoying, but he always supported Moon and respected her decisions once he gave them some thought. I'm usually not one for romance, but my heart fluttered a little when Qibli listened to the tune Moon was humming in the library, and started drumming to the beat to let her know he was there in Darkness of Dragons. That was cute. I think they're good for each other, but I still hope Winter will find happiness down the line (one could argue that he already is, given his scavenger study in Sanctuary).
"I see now that it would have been Foeslayer and Arctic all over again if Moon and Winter got together." Saw this comment and video before I got around to reading Darkstalker; only two chapters in and seeing how the two went from their first meeting to how they are around the time Darkstalker was born, and this comment _instantly_ clicked in my head.
Really like the idea of the Ship Tier list and letting us drive the results. Great channel. (and being nice to your sister who possibly did no work in creation of this video.)
Quick Side Note: Qibli is actually pronounced Kee-blee. (Though I do like kih-blee much better) Thank you sooo much for this video. It has been a long war between the triangle, so this is proof that Moonbli isn’t a horrible ship.
Thanks for the note! I'm curious now though - I thought the audio books pronounced it "Kih-blee" so that's what I've been going off. Where'd you get "Kee-blee" from?
@@JadeMountainArchive Sorry for the late reply, didn't check my notifs. I got this pronunciation from both my friends who read WoF, and the Google pronunciation thing. Though, as both @XxKibblesxX and @Someone Who exists said, I've learned it can be pronounced both ways!
Personally Qibli is my favourite character, and has been from Book 5. He's extremely loyal (Shown in his relationship with Thorn) and also quite noble, and does A LOT of brave and/or difficult things to do. (Such as getting Winter to fly over Darkstalkers Teeth, or returning to his severely abusive family.) The only bad quality about him is he doesn't see all of his good qualities, which caused him to second guess himself when it comes to Moon. Btw in that tier list you added a lot of dead dragons.
honestly though, thats my issue with him hes personally one of my least favorite characters due to having basically no negative qualities or troubles, and he just comes off as a mary sue tbh
@@zytheabsolutenerd75 I'm sorry if this sounds offensive. I couldn't think of any better way to word this. Do you not like Qibli because you don't like being compared to people who are "better than you"? Again, I apologize if that is in any way hurtful.
I feel Winter deserves better, like he gave up his family, tribe, and royal title, and Moon STILL doesn't trust him?? Not saying she should be with him, but at least trust him enough to tell him about darkstalker. What moon did felt needlessly mean considering what Winter went through
This is one of those things where if it were real life, I’d be a fierce defender for Qibli and would be trying to keep Winter as far away from Moon as possible. In real life, it’s just a safer and more healthy relationship for Moon. However, it’s fiction, and I’m an unfortunate sucker for redeemed characters with questionable actions, and I also love Winter so much that I’ll never stop hoping for him. I just like their dynamic more, to be honest. It would also have been a really nice parallel between Winterwatcher and Foeslayer and Arctic. Bridges can be made between the Night/Ice division, and Winterwatcher would have been a massive contradiction to Darkstalker’s ideology, as well as Winter’s family.
Ooooh, that's a really good point. Winterwatcher would have been an interesting contrast to one of the driving conflicts of arc 2 - the Icewing/Nightwing feud. I think, in some ways, Tui set that up intentionally so that Winter had even MORE internal conflict/reason to reject his Icewing heritage in his book but she didn't quite take it as far as you've suggested here. I hope he finds someone else in Sanctuary though - he really deserves some happiness in his life :)
@@songbird6414 I guess you're right. Stonethorn didn't work out. However, you could say the same thing about Foeslayer and Arctic. Their ship caused a huge war, Darkstalker to force Arctic to disembowel himself, Foeslayer's thousands of years of imprisonment, the death of Queen Glacier and many other icewings, and the near extinction of the nightwing tribe because of the volcano.
Ok I used to not like Moon and Qibli being together and wanted Moon and Winter to be together. But after watching this I start to realize that Moonbli is a very great ship and I love the ship now! I really enjoyed this video and all it’s takes. Now I think I’ll enjoy the Moonbli ship more!
My mind- "okay I know qibli and moon would be an amazing relationship, they trust each other and will probably be the healthiest relationship in wof. But naw screw that imma ship winter and qibli for no apparent reason, who needs healthy relationships anyway!?"
I love winterwatcher,but I also love moonbli,and I see why it ended the way it did, winter,to put it bluntly,has trouble communicating at all,at least emotionally,his response to anything is to be angry,or lash out,or say everything from his direct perspective (actually why he uses can't,and should like that,big pointer to judging everything from his veiw), Qibli meanwhile,while he clearly sees things much differently from how he acts,he acts goofy and warm,and in top of that more often then not,can convey his emotions better then Winter. I'd make another poem on this but I'm to lazy to right now >-
If Moon and Winter had become canon, it would have been very abusive and violent. I’ve always shipped Moon and Qibli, they’re a strong and healthy couple, as Qibli and Moon trust each other and they share similar feelings. Thank you for explaining this. Winter x Moon is probably one of the worst ships in the fandom.
@@CloverCelest How is it gonna be Arctic and foeslayer again? Thats like saying all ice x night ships are bad. Did you read book 14? If you did, you probably didn't read the middle section because the Winter there was far from abusive.
@@lavenderbrook4167 I'm not saying that Winter is horrible and irredeemable. I did read book 14 and it seems like he's getting better now that he's away from his family. That doesn't change the fact that he was abusive towards Moon, threatening her life, insulting her, and generally being a bigoted prick.
@@CloverCelest Yeah, he was horrible in the beginning. And probably would have been a bad mate at that time, but Im just saying that if Winter and Moon were to have a relationship rn, it would be far from abusive.
Honestly, it’s is important to understand some things when it comes to Moonwatcher as not only are there things that happen to her (such as with Winter acting like a jerk to her) to that lead her to choosing Qibli over Winter, but there are actions she do that lead to things being worse for Winter. The first point is when Moon, instead of waiting for morning to talk about what to do with Darkstalker’s scroll, decided to run away with the scroll and break the trust that Winter was willing to give in that situation as well as just giving confirmation to his Icewing beliefs about Nightwings (not help by Moon unintentionally confirming them in the past as well). Leading to Darkstalker being freed and enchanting Winter to like him and end up attacking Qibli cause of it as well as sending a plague at the Icewings. All of that just building up to when Winter learns that Moon trusts Darkstalker, leading to a pretty nasty argument that would just confirm Moons decision to choose Qibli and Winter to rebound back to his Icewing family (not helped by seeing his father die in front of him). The second point that is honestly extremely important is that Moon herself, as well as the rest of the Jade Winglet for that matter, don’t really know/understand Winter’s issues. Only really seeing him as just being a jerk in the end that they can’t really trust when things get serious, and as one saying goes “no one notices your sadness until it turns into anger, and then your the bad guy”. The third and final point is that Moon, as well as the rest of the Jade Winglet, would unintentionally belittle Winter by implying he is not good enough to be trusted with knowing the fate of Darkstalker who hurt Winter the most out of the group. Similar to how Winter’s parents would belittle him for not being good enough to be an Icewing. Honestly, Winter’s ending is the worst as he just ends up back at square one, having to earn the love and trust of the ones he calls family instead of being given it.
Small correction. He has LOST his friends. Even Kinkanjou says to Winter that "it's too late for the apology tho". So this implies they're no longer considering him to be a friend. So he has to make new friends in the Sanctuary and start anew indeed but he'll never be accepted by his former friends. Even Moon implies that "Winter will find himself elsewhere". So yes not only she chooses Q over Winter, she'd like to never see him again at all. She's no longer considering him to be a friend and doesn't care about his fate. Winter has lost all of them the entire "but hey we're still family" was there only to hurt Winter less with some sweet lies.
Honestly, I never checked on the community all that much, so I never even considered Moon×Winter as a possibility. Because yeah, as mentioned, there are _sooooo_ many red flags in that relationship. That said, I also saw another angle to the love triangle not brought up in this video, Qibli×Winter. While still not a ship I was invested in personally, it always felt a lot more grounded of a relationship for Winter, with both caring for and about each-other in the spaces between their rivalry over Moon. Qibli×Moon still made the most sense for the endgame ofc, but it was refreshing to see a love triangle where all three characters involved cared about each-other to a certain extent.
I recently re-read the second arc and got to experience both ships firsthand, and I need to add my two cents. Note that I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion, I'm stating my observations and you can make of them what you will. Let's get the elephant out of the room first: most of what JMA says here is correct; Qibli is a far better partner for Moon than Winter. He's more emotionally stable, they're open with each other, and it's refreshing to see the girl choose the smart kind guy over the broken bad boy for once. While I believe Winterwatcher could've eventually worked, it would have been a long and rocky road to get to that point. Overall I think Tui made the right choice, relationships that have a strong foundation tend to work far better in the long run. However, me loving to play the role of devil's advocate, I must bring up the one major issue I have with Moonbli, which coincidentally is also Winterwatcher's greatest strength. The truth is when you compare the writing of the two relationships, Moonbli feels far more rushed and less polished. I believe this is largely due to the love triangle being a final act addition, because now the author has to convince you to pick Moonbli after previously having invested so much time into Winterwatcher. Reading the early books it's kinda suprising how little romantic interest Qibli shows Moon in comparison to Winter prior to book 10. I suspect that Tui was planning on Winterwatcher being the cannon ship before deciding she liked Moonbli better. (Which I'm fine with, I don't want to tell Tui how to write her own stories, but did you really need to shaft Winter as hard as you did to make it work?) The most interesting thing I noticed though is that between the three of them it's Qibli and Winter who have the best character chemistry. They work so well off each other and genuinely consider each other as best friends by the end. Moon on the other hand largely fades into the background and her main focus in the triangle is that she's uncomfortable trying to figure out how to pick one without losing the other. Finally I'd like address some of the controversies about both ships: that Qibli has manipulative parallels to Darkstalker and that Winter is borderline abusive. To both I say "well yes, but kinda no". The whole point of DoD's climax was to showcase that while Darkstalker wasn't entirely wrong, he wasn't exactly right either. (Kudos to Qibli for being able to recognize this about himself, admittance is the first step towards becoming a better person). As with Winter, he does have a short temper and little to no filter, but after book 7 he was genuinely making an effort to turn himself around. The two times after that when he really lost it, while blowing up at them probably wasn't the best move to make, I can't say they were entirely unwarranted. All in all I find that I actually enjoy both ships quite a lot, though I have to acknowledge that each have their fair share of problems, Winterwatcher because of weak compatibility and Moonbli because of not enough time to shine. (Which is why I say Qinter is the superior ship; it has the best of both worlds) I'd like to thank JMA for rekindling my intest in the series and encouraging me to think more subjectively.
What a fun read! I think I have to agree that Qinter has the best of both worlds hahaha. I, personally, felt like Moonbli was foreshadowed plenty though I will admit to not having picked up on the clues AT ALL during my first read through - at least not until Winter explicitly mentions it in book 7. There's another comment around somewhere on this video by TrickyTalon about why Moon and Qibli were really good for each other above and beyond the themes I layed out in the video that I would highly recommend reading if you're interested in thinking more about them!
@@JadeMountainArchive talon does do a really good analysis! I'm not saying there was no foreshadowing for Moonbli, it just wasn't really a focus until Qibli's POV, which being the finale meant it didn't have much time to shine. I think some of the issue is the placement of the books. Winter gets a lot more focus early in the arc, and then falls into the Sutherland trap of not really doing much afterwards. Even though it's one of my favorites, Winter Turning is honestly just filler. Escaping Peril was a good character driven story and tied up loose strings from arc 1, but in the grand scheme of arc 2 it's also mostly filler. If I could rewrite arc 2 this is what I'd do. Keep Moon Rising just as it is. The first two acts of book 7 would play out largely the same but be from Peril's POV (maybe Peril would notice Clay's concern for Glory and set out to find Icicle, run into the Jade Winglet who have the same idea and join forces to stop her.) For act three they rescue Hailstorm, Peril gets her confrontation with Scarlet, and Chameleon is revealed to have been playing both sides of the Skywing schism, but he escapes. Book 8 would be Winter's POV, with the first two acts being him and Hailstorm returning to the Ice Kingdom and the Dimond trial. Winter realizes his friend's companionship is worth more than his family's approval. After freeing Foesalyer (they part ways in Possibility) he to the sky kingdom and helps the Jade Winglet track down Chameleon and get Darkstalker's scroll. It still ends with Darkstalker freed though. Book 9 would be largely the same, though I wish Turtle would be a bit more of a proactive protagonist. For book 10 I'd try to make the two halves of the story more cohesive, and try to fix a few inconsistencies in the climax to make it a bit more satisfying. Anyway, thank for taking the time to read my comments, it means a lot.
I found this channel about 2 or 3 weeks ago and it's already one of my favorite channels about WoF and has amazing videos Qibli is my favorite character in the books so whenever I see a video abt him I just gravitate towards it
I'm re-reading moon rising for an exam (wish me luck plz) and Qibli is so nice to her and their moments are amazing. Qibli defends her when Winters getting mad at her. When the jade winglet are in Tsnamis amazing meeting class thingy , Winter scared Moon away from getting a fish then has happy thoughts about it. Qibli stepped in and grabbed a fish for her. Moon also felt empathy for Qibli when seeing his past memorys. They just defend eachover for the whole book and I love it. (Srry if theres any mistypes , I can't be botherd to check through and my editting is broken and I haft to practically leave youtube)
Okays here's my 2 cents, and why I think this should be a poly relationship. All three of them have their own problems in their own way. Moon starts off as way too finicky and anxious about everything and everyone around her (I get that it's because of the mind reading and knowing every nightwing hated her left an imprint to make her think that everyone would hate her, but I'm talking about the problem being her isolating herself). As stated in the video, Winter has extreme anger issues and trauma that he let's dictate his life and behavior from anyone who *his family* thinks is below him. He's a emotional baggaged bomb and explodes on anyone he sees fit. Qibli was raised in the hard life. Horrible parenting led him to develop the need to a)know how to control a situation b)must assess everyone to the point where if he doesn't know everything he doesn't trust them c) Holds on to these aspects of himself until the very end of arc 2. Here's why they all are good for each other: Moon has a kind heart and she was open to trusting both Qibli and Winter as the arc progressed, which also in turn a) Influenced Winter to at least try to become a better dragon (even if his development is still in the progressive phase till arc 3) and b) Qibli is able to get a better judgement for himself and others and put his past behind him. Winter is a strong soul with a keen sense individualism. He might have solid walls but deep down he is just someone who has been crushed and molded by unfair expectations and regulations, but he does care for the dragons around him. Moon and Qibli have been a main cause for his development and growth because they are the counteracters of his personality. While Qibli is fun joking, but secretly over-analyzing, dragon, he also let his past dictate who he is. His development was based around Winter being able to shut him down when he needed to be, and Moon influencing him to opening up more, just like with Winter. (It just came about to simple and dry in my opinion) All three of them were able to open up and step outside of their bubbles because of the influence of each other. An equilibrium. Winter's strength but inner soft spot, Moon's anxiety but deep care for other dragons, and Qibli's slight distrust of dragons but his ability to learn and develop his feelings and opinions based off of experience.
I like these points! I guess I always approached it from the perspective of, "If Moon has to make a choice here, which is she going with," but these arguments do bring the throuple into play as well.
@@JadeMountainArchive You're points made sense too. Winter was being far too traumatic and letting his life being dictated by his family for him to work with Moon *alone*. But I just feel that Qibli's development felt dry and rushed. Now granted, Scholastic is a popular book company who keeps up with supply and especially demand and probably rushed Tui to "just get the book out and write what you first think of cause we got to sell this book to the masses to make money." In fact that might be what happened with arc 3 to be honest. But all we have is what's given to us and what the readers run with I guess. That's the beauty of fandoms.
@@JadeMountainArchive In fact I thought I wasn't the only person who thought like this. Usually people either don't like WinterWatcher because of how toxic Winter can be, but then other people don't like Qibli as a character because of how shady his is. I genuinely thought Tui was going to write in a thruple which is something I've never seen in a book series before.
@@betajediwizard5680 while I wouldn't be opposed to a thruple, especially between these three characters, I can see how risky it would be to put it in a "children's series" and how much controversy that would spark.
@@pyronuke4768 If it wasn't labeled as a children's series, then maybe it'd be possible. I always tell people that the bad writing isn't Tui's fault, but Scholastic enforcing all this stuff on her.
I just wanted to say thanks as I only just discovered your videos and they make my day better!!! 😊 My fave ship is Moonbli, I even has it as my Lock Screen! Ps my fave is Qibli!! XD
Lemme say it now: *I feel like Darkstalker drove Moon away from Winter* Right. How? I'd straight up start a whole video for this, and although I'm not completely prepared with the close up reasoning in my head, let's give it a go. Keep in mind that even though I'm writing this, this isn't the 'only' reason Winterwatcher didn't happen. Darkstalker, from his childhood, hated his father, who was an IceWing prince. He didn't approve of his mother being with him. When he woke up again 2,000 years later, he found Moon, a NightWing dragonet who liked a SandWing, and an IceWing. Darkstalker could see the future of Moon; who she'd end up with. Obviously, he disliked IceWings. And what made him disapprove of Moon's interest in Winter even more, was because Winter was also an IceWing prince, just like his father. He didn't want another Arcticslayer to happen. At one point in The Talons of Power, he asked Moon something like (sorry I forgot what exactly) "Do you want me to show you who you get?". But Moon refused. Now, the question is: Who did Darkstalker see with Moon? We don't know exactly. It could have been Qibli, or, it could have been Winter. Yes. Winter. Here's a theory that isn't so likely; Darkstalker knew Winter was going to get Moon, so he drove Moon away from him. How? He enchanted Winter. He knew he couldn't harm him, since he promised Moon he wouldn't hurt her friends, so, instead, he used an enchantment. But, wasn't that an enchantment similar to the one done on Qibli? It was slightly different, as mentioned in the books. Regardless, Qibli's enchantment wasn't as serious as Winter's, as Qibli was still able to be himself, just a few thoughts here and there were not typical to his. Winter, on the other talon, completely changed his personality. However, after the enchantment was taken off, Winter was furious at Darkstalker, and at Moon too. This, is exactly what Darkstalker knew. He knew that Winter would be extremely aggravated after the spell was removed, and that he'd yell at Moon for trusting him. He managed to get Winter all riled up, just so Moon would dislike him. And that's exactly what happened. You might think this was a tad unlikely to have happened, but I personally would like to consider this and look into it further for more evidence. I'm open to anyone's opinions stating otherwise.
This is big brain. I, of course, will always believe Qibli would have won her over eventually, but this 100% sounds like something Darkstalker would do!
@@JadeMountainArchive Yeah ngl, I wouldn't have expected Winter to get her. It was always going to be Qibli, however this is just another theory that kept bugging me.
I've always shipped Moon and Qibli because in with Foeslayer and Artic, Artic was a kinda mean icewing prince who fell in love with an outcast Nightwing. Winter is a icewing prince who's kind of mean, moon is a Nightwing who's kind of an outcast cause of how she was raised and cause she can read minds.... The first live ended badly and also I don't think Tui would do it again
listen, I never cared to read epilogues. but I decided to reread the series and the tenth books epilogue was heart breaking. quinter forever over here!
0:58 you’re right about that, but the artwork shown is of Arctic. The other two dragons in the image are Snowfox and Snowflake, and I believe they’re the designs from a map about the three of them from a while back.
That is correct - and Arctic is also in the thumbnail for the video! I went with it because he basically looks like Winter and the artwork is so gooooood!
Love this!! Qibli is my favorite!!! I just love him much!! Side note: does anyone else pronounce his name Quibly? Like I know it's spelled Qibli but in my mind thats how I pronounced it. I also looked it up and it said it can be pronounced both ways. Anyway great video!!
Thanks! And yep, I've heard a lot of people pronounce it in a lot of different ways. Kwibly and Keebly are the two main ones, but I usually just go with how the audiobook says things :P
Thank you someone finally realized what I've been saying( not saying you didn't listen considering this is my first video of yours I've watched but still someone gets it)
I understand your point of view! I think moon would have chose Qibli in the canon book series too, but I still ship Winterwatcher since I believe that if in the beginning, Winter was raised in a loving, caring family, Moon would have been more likely to choose him.
I'm usually a big fan of canon ships and I really like Moonbli (or whatever other name you call it). Because of that I've never been a fan of Winterwatcher and seeing that other people agree with my ship, that makes me happy
I absolutely love Winter so much, and I wish he had a bigger role after book 7. I got so excited when he tagged along with Qibli in book 10 and their dialogue was amazing, but then he just kinda got..whisked away at the end of the book. I really wish he would have had a bigger role. It also felt like he didn’t actually need to be there, glad he was but I wish there was MORE. I expected he’d save Qibli in some way, be there to remind him he doesn’t need his family or something I dunno. Wish he had a bigger role. It’s probably cause he’s my favorite character I personally don’t really like Moon and Qibli together, I mean sure its a healthy relationship but I just didn’t feel as much chemistry. I wasn’t excited when they were both together, and I really wish Winter had more I mean..at the end of book 10 he’s just alone, and I mean Kinkajou was there but I wish there was SOMETHING more, like Qibli or Moon visiting him letting him know they’re still there for him even if a relationship didn’t work out, and all we got is it saying they sent letters. I love Qibli’s and Winter’s dynamic, I got so happy whenever they were interacting, even if it’s not a romantic relationship, just a strong friendship despite Winter’s tsundere attitude. I wish we got like, MORE at the end of book 10 instead of him disappearing. I do agree with Moon and Winter not being right, he yelled at her and she just kinda took it most of the time and I didn’t feel much chemistry with them either. Qibli and Winter could’ve been a thing… That would be cool.. But I also like them as close friends
Did anyone notice they EVERY book has the same common theme/completion/plot? It’s road to self betterment/acceptance. In every book: -POV has a flaw/problem -POV is constantly reminded of it -POV doesn’t accept it. -POV is forced into a scenario where he has to acknowledge it. -POV tries to do something that is against its nature. -POV became a better person than at the beginning. -POV STILL HAS THAT PROBLEM just now he knows and tries to be better. In every book it’s the same. Even winter, he accepts that Ice wings are far from perfect. Clay understands that he shouldn’t be trying to fight but PROTECT. Tsunami understood she can’t solve everything by punching and stopped trying to be the leader. Glory accepted her rainwing nature, and at the same time tried to make the rain wings a proud tribe. Starflight understood that sometimes hiding and waiting for danger to leave is not the right option. Sunny understood that no one should tell you what you should do, even a prophecy. Sometimes one has to take matters into their own talons. I could go on but there is one book that fully embraces this theme and makes it into his plot. It’s the fourteenth book about snowfall. The whole point of her POV is to teach her empathy, seeing the world from different perspective, and that they shouldn’t hate other dragons because of the past, it belongs to the past and she had to embrace the now and create the future.
@@JadeMountainArchive I’ve actually called the fourteenth book the “Opals Ring” of the wings of fire series. Because it defines them in its theme. When it comes to character development, I can’t think of any better author than Tui and the rest of the Erin Hunter team.
While I do agree with these you also have to put in prospect that Winter and Qibli were taught differently and grew up with very different people or dragons Ig. Winter was raised by rude dragons who didn’t really care for him and basically left him in the background while Qibli sure his real family was trash when he got sold to Thorn he got treated with love and respect not by a title but because the dragon he was around cared for him. I mean when Winter got ambushed by skywings then had to fly away leaving his brother with them his parents just said they wished he was taking instead of his brother. Now I’m not saying Moon should have gotten with Winter I’m just saying that if Winter was raised by nicer dragons he might have been nice to Moon and maybe just maybe gotten with her.
I was a moonbli shipper even before this, I knew that moon was going to be shipped with quibli. Also guess what? A BAD CHILDHOOD DOESN'T GIVE THE RIGHT TO BE AB**SIVE TO A GIRLFRIEND/BOYFRIENd Edit: yes, he gave up a lot for moon, but that doesnt mean he automatically gets to date moon while being ab**sive
I started out as a Winterwatcher shipper because I though Moon would get a good reputation if she dated Winter (since he was popular). However as I grew to truely hate Winter, well, now I'm like the biggest Moonbli fan.
Winter was never a character I could bring myself to love, but I didn't hate him either because throughout the book you could see that he wasn't to blame for his behavior and his actions, but that doesn't make them ok. So I feel like winterwatcher may have worked out if over time Winter learned to trust others and.....how do I say this professionally? Be nicer? More polite? Less grrr angry scary angsty dragon? anyways awesome video I hope you get many more subscribers because this was so interesting to watch!
I participated in the Ship ranking!! BLAZE X HERSELF? YES. ABSOLUTELY. Although, you missed a kind of meme ship: Turtle X Scarlet. I would love to see how many people despise the ship XD
I ship both! I was delighted when Moon and Qibli got together, but I was also really sad on Winters behalf. I'm very conflicted. Also, I loved your Glorybringer video! it made me view the ship in a whole new way
Yes qibli and moon trust each other but I think that in the end winter needed moon the most. And I think moon could help winter with his trust issues. But I respect your opinions and I love your vids❤
Nahh, not by accident - they just fit the aesthetic I was going for and if you don't know the art beforehand it's impossible to tell the difference haha. If you check the description though, I do try to point out when the artwork is of a different dragon!
The fact that Moon and Qibli's relationship takes the entire arc to get a good ending is GOOD. It's a lot of fun to see a relationship from start to finish when the two characters didn't meet LESS THAN A FREAKING WEEK AGO. Like, for example: Clay and Peril take from Book 1 to Book 10 to finally get confirmation. But most of all, and kinda following up: _Relationships take time_ and they have entire stories of twists and bumps and turns and upbeats and downbeats until finally there's a form of a good ending. And you'll notice that there's always a unique touch to each romance adventure, for Moonbli its the fact that Winter is there too, or, maybe the fact that they're on an adventure to kill the ex Queen of the SkyWings. That too... What I'm saying is that Moonbli is REALISTIC. And that is why I think it's the best ship in Wings of Fire.
