I was gobsmacked. I couldn't believe it. And no, the story hadn't been fully published when the video was released. The chapter that included the killer identity came out maybe an hour before, but the why and what next didn't come out for several days.
Okay! Good! Like I say I like to read the story in one sitting, but was maybe going to avoid it completely this time as I wanted to solve the murder myself. I'm glad it's not just me
@@RedBobcatGames Personally the worse part of it was that the story starts out with a different character dying before Teysa does, and from when I had started reading, it was my assumption that the mystery would revolve around that death. I have been slowly reading the story due to having a busy school life outside of Magic, and so when the debut video came out and I read the description, needless to say I was confused, because I hadn't gotten that far into the story (Teysa doesn't die until chapter/episode 3) I've always been a fan of murder mysteries, and while I also enjoyed seeing Etrata and Alquist interact with each other, as well as getting to see how some of the other Ravnica characters I've enjoyed have faired since War of the Spark, it still hurts to be spoiled that Teysa would die partway into the story, and by the company who publishes that very story no less. It felt like they expected everyone to read every chapter the day they were published in there entirety. Honestly, even storyline-wise, Krenko and Karlox seem to be forced into the story since they're also in the main set, as they've had very little relevance so far. I thankfully didn't watch the debut video since I assumed since they spoiled Teysa dying they would spoil far more... Glad to see that you thankfully didn't spoil the killer for me, as well as confirmed my suspicion. That said, I'd say that the story has been fairly well-written. I'm kind of disappointed that Myc (A character we have yet to have as a card, but who, by the way, is the son of Jarad, so you'd think they'd want to make references to the previous sets by bringing a new character that still relates to the old stories, and who can potentially be seen as one of the killers, being that he is also the huntmaster of the devkarin golgari) Wonderful content overall! As much as I love a good sherlock-themed set, I'm absolutely disappointed by how they blew open the mystery to ruin for the public, clearly not thinking that, perhaps, someone may not read the material until after the set comes out (in which case several cards would also spoil that Teysa dies, but we'll let that pass since it still happens in the first half of the writing)
@@trevorstammler Dear lord. Had I known that Teysa didn't die until chapter 3 I would have not spoiled that either. I assumed it's what kicked off the mystery! Ahhhh! This is craziness! And as to your point about Krekno and the like not being in the story, but being in the set... This was my fear. You make sets that revolve around a small event, but have to pack them with 5 colours worth of characters, you end up with a bloated story, or pointless cards. Or both
This is probably the best explanation of how I feel about the set as well. Imagine if this was the ONE set they didn't actively have spoiler season for, so the players could literally discover the mystery for themselves by exploring the cards in the set and/or reading the content online. We really need to return to the three-set block format if we want to actually have good stories again. Everything new feels so rushed and half-baked.
@@RedBobcatGames Yeah, I get it. It just feels like their story narrative is a sinking ship because of their business model, and they're choosing to plug the leaking holes with Secret Lairs and Universes Beyond instead of actually addressing the problem.
@@Thoughtmage100 Yeah, 100% agree. If cross-over are so good for business, why aren't we seeing Magic IP characters like Planeswalkers pop up in the Walking Dead or Warhammer 40k?
@@TheSushiandme Well, they clearly have passion for making money. You see the video I did about the Secret Lair changes? Just the ever tightening grip of Hasbro, squeezing all it can from the game
I wanted so much more of Ikoria... and yeah, the entire invasion of the Phyrexian could have been a year of sets, two planes per sets so we actually are invested in the battles and what happens... i means all the gods of theros got compleated, the Cosmos serpent too, but it's only said in flavor text.
I wanted more of Ikoria too, because I felt I never really clicked with it. I couldn't tell what the plane was supposed to be outside of a reskin for Godzilla cards. "Big Monsters" just didn't feel like enough of a theme for me, and all the crystals didn't add much either. More time with it and I'd have understood it more I suspect
@@RedBobcatGames My friend and I loved the big monster theme and the mutation. I have three mutates decks and i made for her a ren and seri mutate deck. I tried to get all the godzilla cards.
@@RedBobcatGames I can see that. I was meh on Innistrad. But I really like Shadows Over Innistrad. But yea, Midnight Hunt and Crimson Vow were just okay. The cards just contain sooo many words and abilities anymore, it’s hard to understand all that is going on with them, not to mention actually remembering.
@@RedBobcatGames can’t wait for it!! I Love Magic. But the game is changing so much, it’s losing its charm to me. I know people like all this. But I really don’t. Leave me back in 2018 with my blocks and 1 type of booster. Cards that are rich in theme and not overly wordy or complicated.
Haha, and there it is. There's my reason to type "Bring back 3 set blocks". Feel like I'm doing that nearly every day in the comments lately. Can't believe I nearly missed a day!
I have hated the individual set structure they have been doing recently. It doesnt give mechanics an evolution over a time period and we cant get used to a plane and its characters (the only exception i think is disturb as it had 2 sets and did change between them) Kaldheim, Kamigawa and Capenna should have all at least had 2 sets to tell their bloated but interesting stories. To flip the script and talk about something else, I think in the Christmas firings most of the marketing department was let go. Look at the ai art in ravnica remastered and tell me that wasnt a rush job. Not only because they used ai but because the wrong cards were used (advertise shocklands with guild gates?). I think a marketing manager who was told to advertise a murder mystery would know "DONT GIVE THE KILLER AWAY IN THE FIRST 10 MINS" but here we are. Lot of misfires currently on WotCs part and i think its because they are missing a department to make sure everything is in order
Hey, in fairness it was 16 minutes lol. And yeah, distrub was good actually. Shame the Vampires from both Hunt and Vow had conflicting designs. Which made Double Feature even weirder. Did you see my Christmas video? I ended it on a segment discussing my thoughts on the lay offs. I suspect WotC won't be sending me any preview cards any time soon...
Well it's a game, and it was marketed as a murder mystery. There was even a Cluedo tie in. Imagine if you knew who the killer was going into a game of Cluedo, wouldn't that spoil the fun?
The set just feels so dumb. It’s goofy, unwanted, and campy. Plus the dossier treatment is ugly and unfinished. It’s also abundantly clear that Karlov manor was supposed to be set on capenna, but no one liked capenna so they panicked and switched it to ravnica
Think my first reply to this may have been blocked by the filter. I bemoaned that part of the reason I also dislike is because it... err... "ended" some fan favourite characters too.
@@RedBobcatGames no doubt! It feels like a poor choice to remove guild leaders so haphazardly. Not to mention, in the story, Niv Mizzet, the living Guildpact that’s supposed to maintain the peace of the guilds is like “yeah I don’t care about the murders honestly. I’m trying to boost tourism.”
@@corporalkills Yeah, it's all a bit off. Not as bad as things have been though. Ikoria felt like a low point for me in terms of narrative connecting to the cards. The story recently may not have been great, but at least the cards are somewhat representative now
I don't get why they stopped with the 2 set blocks. They felt like the perfect balance of letting the story breathe and not having the block drag out beyond its mechanical enjoyability. I thought the Amonkhet and Shadows blocks generally did a pretty great job of having strong buildup without the need for a 3rd set.
To be fair, you're not wrong. I think 2 sets could work IF they're actually tied together and a proper set up and conclusion to one story (looking at you Midnight Vow), AND if we were given more time between releases. It's product overload lately, and I think that doesn't help either. By the time we get a set, we're being told to forget it and look at the next one coming
It's less work. That's literally the only reason. Less time in R&D, less playtesting, less programming for digital formats. It's simply to reduce their own workload and distract from the fact that they can't hack it anymore. They can't plot a story that keeps you engaged across two sets and they can't script events to fill those sets with a satisfying narrative arc. They want to razzle dazzle you with one set's mechanics and then whisk you away to another before you start thinking about how undercooked 70% of it is.
I'd even settle for a regular 2 set block. Beginning and end. BUT with the sets they've tried that with recently have really sucked. I feel like they're learning the wrong lessons. If the sets suck, it doesn't matter what kind of block they're in
This reminds me of the movie version of the City of Ember. In the book, neither the characters nor the reader know where the city is located (which is where the whole book takes place). They just know it's dark and cold all the time. Only at the very end of the book do the reader and characters find out the answer to that mystery. It's a huge reveal and explains a lot of the questions that have built up over the course of the book. In the movie, they tell you in literally the very first scene. I was so mad. I can't believe they spoiled the mystery of MKM the same way. That's so dumb. I mean, I don't even care about the story, and I still think it's a moronic move.
I haven't read them. I don't get as much time to read as I used to but I'll add these to my list. I got about half way into Neil Gaiman's American Gods about 6 months ago and stopped for reasons I can't remember. Where does the time go?
I miss the old 3 set magic use to do. I started playing magic when the tarkir set got out and it is stil to this day my absolute favorite mtg setting. I really wanna see a revist to tarkir but at the same time i dread it because i know they would F it op
Yeah, careful what you wish for. I keep hearing things about how they redid a bunch of the artwork for Ravnica when they remastered it. It's on my radar to possibly cover if I learn more
This set really solidifies wotc’s problems with narrative. You’re right about March of the Machine being anemic, and war of the spark was the same, honestly, even if it had a slightly better build-up due to more sets running up to it. You touched on this in the video when you mentioned the old blocks, but what’s most frustrating is that it didn’t used to be this way. But even Shadows over Innistrad could have been a sweet mystery if it had more time to wait, and if it wasn’t directly following eldrazi. Obviously they wanted all the eldrazi cards close because standard but imagine if we had 2 or 3 years between eldrazi and shadows so that was actually surprising! I guess my point is the gameplay trumps narrative in importance and that’s been the excuse for a while. It’s certainly a fair excuse. But good lord they aren’t even trying and I don’t they’ve been trying since war of the spark.
I blame their F.I.R.E. design, and Hasbro's mandate to double profits each year. Making choices which lead to short term financial gains, but make the game worse in the long run
I'd want a card for Shawn from Psych. He's my favourite detective. Also I've seen some people in the comments say the cards look like they'd have been a better fit for New Capenna. Thoughts?
In the preview cards people are discovering hidden numbers and cyphers when cards are put next to each other, which I thought was cool, until I realised that if the ARG gets completed, it'll probably just be a link to a limited run secret lair or something dumb
@theepicchicken They stated on Weekly MTG that once it's completed, they will publish an epilogue to the story. My hope is that the epilogue goes hard lol
@@roberttalley636 One of Mark's articles said that the puzzle will be a second mystery that Proft will solve. My guess is that it will involve the mysterious hooded figure he saw in his mind palace.
Yep! I read the article earlier and tried to post the link as a comment but I'm not seeing posted. It was the Making Murders at Karloc Manor Part 2. I am excited for it, but they should have done better at making a distinction in their marketing!@@flaetsbnort
YES! I used to be able to tell what plane a card represented ON SIGHT. I've gotten so used to the new art, and there's so much other bull going on I'd almost forgotten about that. Like a frog in water having the temperature raised slowly. I may do a video on that. The art thing, not the frog thing
@@RedBobcatGames the thing is... i just love the first modern era, i think everything went down after Tarkir, they changed the frame (witch was PERFECT from mirrodin to theros) and the lore just died. I see myself only collecting things from this era. (sorry for the english i'm italian)
I've never been a fan of the "Legendary" frame. I also preferred the Mirrodin to Theros frame too. It's my favourite. And you're english is very good. Better than mine maybe, and I'm English! haha
I totally agree that the debut video should not have revealed the killer, but i think when Rosewater talked about "solving your own mysteries" in the game, he meant moment to moment gameplay. Disguise and Cloak are mechanics that make face down cards; mysteries.
I mean, I guess. You're probably right, but that feels like a very charitable read. And if that is the case, then they should be clearer in their marketing. I'm really disappointed
Oh yeah. I've heard about those. I haven't seen any yet (avoiding spoilers still if I can). But I like a new enchantment type. Adds flavour. Unless I need to end up doing a video on those too
This. While I was a little disappointed ,I feel like the Cases and hidden clues throughout the set and ARG are what are intended to be solved by the players. They also mention this at the end of the debut video. The fact that these mysteries aren't even backed up by the main thematic marketing may mean that the community can speculate and l truly feel as though you solved it. I admit, they could have done both, kept the main murder mystery a secret while also having the other cases, but I'm still curious about what they've put in the set FOR US to solve.
I agree. On a separate note, why does this video sound so padded for time. You could trim a solid 7 minutes off the script and make the same points, with the same gravitas.
I'm not sponsored or monetized. Just the way I speak I suspect. Plus I've had a lot of comments from peopel totally new to the game, so I don't like to assume my viewer has knowledge of what I'm talking about. I agree I could cut stuff, but what I'd cut is foundational explanations that someone else might need to understand my point
I had read all of the stories the day they came out. I believe the debut video released at the same time as that day's story chapter, give or take an hour either way, and I made the mistake of watching it. Talk about a bummer! To be fair, I think the story is still worth a read, as there is still a big mystery that's kinda lurking in the background of the main story. I think the ARG will be geared more toward that mystery and will have basically nothing to do with MKM since they already spoiled the killer was. Basically, there was a whole thing going on behind the scenes involving the Cult of Rakdos, and Blake stated in the Weekly MTG episode the reward for someone solving the final mystery will be the release of the epilogue to the MKM story. This should heavily tie into Outlaws at Thunder Junction, and honestly, I am excited for that and love the execution on that end. I think where it all gets messy is that MKM was marketed so heavily as a mystery set, and the name of the set itself implies that finding the murderer was the whole point of it. My hope is that the epilogue really drops some bombshells and sets up the ending of the Omenpath arc nicely.
Yeah. This all feels like a marketing blunder. And it feels rushed. Like if they'd stoppped and thought about how the story and advertising was coming across even for a second, they would have seen how obviously dumb it would be to sell a murder mystery where they mystery is already solved
I agree! It would have been so much better if they just hadn't announced it in the video. I'm okay with it being put in the story, but I think the story should have come out after the set in that case. Like each chapter could have been a reward for solving the puzzle of that day. You do run into issues with Story Spotlight cards being spoiled in spoiler season, but that could be somewhat mitigated by just not putting those cards up during the spoiler season and letting them be a surprise at prerelease. Idk. Like with almost EVERYTHING Wizards has done for so long now, it was a cool idea, but there were so many things that could have just been done better. It's really a shame, because the Magic IP goes very deep, and they have created such an amazing setting. It would be nice if Hasbro/WotC would put just a little bit more into developing their own thing rather than dishing out the millions that it takes for the licensing of all of these other non-Magic IPs. Sorry for the wall of text, but I am passionate about the lore, and it sucks to see how little of a shit they give about it. In this case, the story was GREAT, but the powers that be decided to undermine the whole thing. @@RedBobcatGames
The wall of text is fine. I think you and I are very much on the same page. Which is nice. I was worried I'd sound like a maniac when I put this video out. Nice to know I'm not alone in thinking about these things
I've never been really that engaged with the story of mtg but it seems like wizards isn't either these days. A real shame because I love mystery stuff but we'll probably at least get some cool detective themed cards for me to crowbar into commander decks for no good reason
I understand but somewhat disagree. More and more I’m wanting to make my commander decks thematic. But that isn’t as fun to do when WoTC is messing up my interaction with thematic elements.
@@MikeTheElderMillennial I meant the best way to play commander is to just build decks that you love. It doesn't matter if they're the most optimal or even if they win to be honest. If you draw a card and it makes you smile I think you're doing it right. Out of curiosity though, what do you mean by WotC is messing up your interaction with thematic elements? You mean the thematic elements mess up your card interation? Or do you mean that WotC do a bad job of the thematic elements and you don't want to interact with them? Or something else?
There are some good cards but why is a detective a 2/2...? They still print soldiers and warrior tokens as 1/1's? They are enormous beaters in the set and why are nerds with magnifying glasses slapping everything to death? The flavor is just all over the place in this set and I'm just not excited
Oh man. Don't get that argument started. I'm on your side but the amount of times I've questioned that and been told to shut up I can't count. Why were the stranger things kind all like 4/4s? Why was Ian Malcom not a 0/1? And if anyone else is reading this, and have started to type the words "Emrakul" and "15 Squirrels", yes. I know. But it doesn't change my mind
In my defence, I did say I don't speak it the language haha. I also don't speak anything other than english to such a degree, that I don't even recognise characters from other dialects apparently
@@RedBobcatGames No problem. In truth, Japanese has a LOT of the same (more complex) symbols. But one looks more blocky than the other.. that's one way to tell, if you aren't experienced 🤣 Which you don't have to be at all. Cheers.
I don’t mind the weird sets, planes, etc. I never really paid attention to the lore. I mainly just care about cards/mechanics. I agree the MKM is more weird than usual though. TBH, I try not to focus on the weird stuff. 🤷♂️
Yeah, that's probably the best way to play now days to be honest. I just always loved the stories so much. It breaks my heart to see it being treated this way
@@RedBobcatGames I recently (in the last 3 years) became aware that the lore was as rich as it is. I remember that there were books, even back in 1994 (hello Mana Crypt 😂). But I didn’t realize that the sets and characters literally had back stories 😂
The best of them in my opinion is a book by Brandon Sanderson called "The Children of the Nameless". It follows Davriel Cane on Innistrad and is just a wonderful read if you're interested in that sort of thing
They keep getting further and further away from the concept of what Magic is. You're supposed to be the planeswalker fighting another powerful planeswalker. The planes are supposed to be giant settings where a broad scope of things are happening and you can pull from the resources of the entire plane. For a while they've had no idea what the role of the player is and they think the game is about following around a small group of MCU Avenger-planeswalkers and associated legendary creatures doing genre pastiches and having silly bourgeois parties everywhere. What is the insane Rakdos death cult doing? A big party! What's going on in the horror plane? Two big parties! What's going on in the crime plane? 20s-themed parties! (complete with speakeasies that have no reason to exist) What's going on in Ravnica now? Murder mystery party at a manor! At the same time you've got absurd power creep, so some beggar on the street or a thug is like a 3/4 who can kill a bear or an elephant in single combat. It's way, way too narrow.
Have you seen my video on Battle cards? I basically say everything you just said. Except for the power creep part. I really don't want to do a video on power creep because I worry it will be 4 hours long and full of nothing but me moaning
I think it's getting to a point where I can't wait for prerelease any more before looking further into the set. Like, I don't know what you mean about the tokens. Is there an issue with them? I've had a bunch of comments to do with drama around this set and I've purposely. It's probably weird to have put a video out about something I know nothing of haha
Clue tokens. Treasure tokens. Cloak tokens or hidden cards with ward 2. Applying the suspect counter, and more. I watched a nitpicking nerds video on the commander decks revealing all the different mechanics. Maybe the suspect mechanic will speed things up? Maybe a bunch of 1-1 ties or people going to turns on game 2. That's what happened to me a lot lately. Against veteran players. There are so many different mechanics and triggers. There are not enough card draw in sets, slowing them down. Those have been my experiences lately. This set looks like an even worse time for a prerelease... maybe I'm wrong? Like anything, it's as much fun as you make it...
Yeah, I agree. I've gotten into the habbit of buying a prerelease after the fact and only doing it with friends the last few years. And I think you're right about the lack of card draw. It also feels like every set is for commander, no matter what. I'm still on the fence about this set too, mostly over the price hike if I'm being honest. We'll see I guess
Takes me like a week to make these videos, and I only found out about this a few days ago. If I see enough to talk about in a vid, I may very well, cos that's awful if it's true
Huh?! But there was that whole controversy at events, cos apparently two numbers were missing and players were expected to look through the dice like a looking glass?!
I can imagine Rem Karolus being brought in to interrogate demons, only to discover they're innocent of the (or at least that) crime. Have you read Children of the Nameless? It's not a muder mystery, but there is a myster on Innistrad that needs solving. It's very good.
I really resonated with the point about stories ending in one set. I don’t care that much about lore, but usually it helps me stay invested. And yeah March of the machine ended way too quick
I sadly watched it. My buddy & i sitting there talking excitedly. Poking a bit of fun at it here & there. Then the reveal....dafuq? We got caught up on who it was. Such crap. We decided Jace should have been the victim and lilly resurrects him 😊
See, I thought it'd be interesting if Jace was the murderer. Wouldn't this have been fun to talk about if we didn't know already? I am so annoyed by this
Very well-made video, congrats! Did you play during the R2R age? The league, the themed events, The maze's end - I think that was a well-executed flavortown!
Sort of. I was a lot more casual at the time. I was one of those 70% that Mark Rosewater says don't know what a Planeswalker is. I doubt I could have told you what Ravnica even was. I do understand why we've got back to the plane so much though. I think "well-executed" is right. I just wish they'd give the same focus and time to other planes too
I mean thet straight up told you in the March of the Machine trailer that Karn killed Elesh Norn.... which really sucked cuz I was there them Mirrodin become New Phyrexia. I remember the real hype I felt when drafting Besieged and being told that my draft experience, who I decided I was siding with really mattered. I was told that my choice in the draft to side with Mirrodin mattered and that made me love Mirrodin all the more, and when Mirrodin fell I fell in love with Jor Kadeen because he was The Prevailer, he was going to keep fighting. Koth the Hammer was the first planeswalker I liked because he was fighting for this plane I loved. Flash forward to march of the machine and the story starts at the ending, telling me that Frodo throws the ring into the Volcano... Elesh Norn is dead, Phyrexia is dead so like.... why do I care? Even if I decide to say to hell with it, they took my home plane so now I am siding with Phyrexia like... why would it matter? We already know Phyrexia is defeated.
Exactly my feelings about how WotC seem to be approaching a lot of their lore lately. It's like they're so busy looking to the next product, they don't want to deliver the current one properly
That's such a shame I was intrigued by solving a murder mystery in the set, I haven't watched the debut video yet maybe I can still try solve it while avoiding spoilers
Yeah, just stop as it gets to the 16 minute mark. Though to be fair, the video basically covers what I imagine is the entire story, so if you want to read that maybe don't watch it at all
No, the video is just a recap of the story. I recommend reading the story all the way through if you haven't watched the video yet. I believe that the murderer is revealed in Chapter 8. There are plenty of clues throughout the first 7 chapters if you want to try your hand at it! @@charlieread7097
I would've LOVED that, but Trostani's motive makes sense after the loss of their Vitu Ghazi which was a prime symbol of their guild. It's also reflected in the new Trostani card that can give deathtouch like how she gives poisons to the mindless assassins; a suspicious ability for a Selesnya commander. Even without knowing the complete answer their card was sus like a Dimir commander card being able to give lifelink.
@@h2ojr1 Yeah, you're right it all tracks. Which makes it even more baffling that they gave it away. Imagine, if we got to work that out like you did just there by looking at the cards? Would have been so cool
i haven't been playing mtg long enough to have any reverence for classic planes or characters. in my short time i've sunk thousands of dollars but on their part wotc has really dropped the ball. why would i as a new player give a fraction of a fuck about a world and characters that they've done nothing to build on and only use for nostalgia bait so they can half ass a new set together. like all that phyrexian stuff was cool i guess if you're like an old timer back from when the story and characters materially mattered.
Yeah, exactly. I think this is why they're focusing on Universes Beyond so much. The story USED to be really good. But I can't even recommend it to you any more since they actually deleted al the old posts about it off of their website. it's madness!
Just finished listening to the story and I liked it. It definitely felt too short and therefore probably rushed, but it wasn't too bad as an actual story. Most of the characters were decently written and the guild politics had me engaged. It did a decent job of setting up a mystery, laying down clues and red herrings that feel satisfying to work through in your mind and line up cleanly and satisfyingly in the conclusion. I have the very hot take that spoilers don't really matter as much as people act like they do. A lot, if not the majority of the time, they barely matter at all and don't take away from the story to any significant degree. Even in something as big as a whodunnit. The experience of listening to this story wasn't ruined for me because I knew who the killed and killer was. Diminished in some capacity for sure, but far from ruined. If anything there was some benefit to already knowing the answers. I still got the satisfying feeling of "oooooooh, so that's why that was like that" it just happened as I was reading it instead of at the reveal itself. Which is a different experience, but still enjoyable. I don't disagree though that the abandonment of the block was and is one of the worst things to happen to magic storytelling more time on these planes feels sorely needed. I really do wish I had 30 rather than 10 (and a mini) story episodes for this story. Felt like there was a lot of room for development across the board there. Compared to the wrap up of march of the machine (I'm still mad vorinclex was killed in basically one paragraph with "watch out behind you!") and greg weissman this story was amazing, but that ain't a high bar ig. To clarify, the killer and jilled be spoiled is definitely a bad thing and a sucky consequence of this maddening release schedule. I just personally don't give a fuck that I knew everything and still liked the set a lot and the story decent bit. Still want them to slow down producfion of magic in general and give planes more room to breath.
Yeah I feel you. Normally I'd agree, but for a murder mystery it's just such a bone headed move to reveal the killer the way they did. I still haven't read the story, but I saw that the author was the same one who wrote the best of the Thunder Junction stories (I believe) so I may go back and give it a look. Unless Wizards deletes their online library again that is
While there are plenty of legitimate reasons to dislike Murders at Karlov, I have a simple one. They killed Teysa, my favorite MTG character. And I can't help but feel it wasn't a narratively powerful death either- just a popular character brought to the slaughterblock to add spice to the set,
Yeah, and like I said. They way they broke that information to me... just wow. What a whiff. I'm not sure "Mess" is a strong enough word for this set's marketing
Tbf, the vast majority of players mostly care about the mechanics of the game. Theme and setting are just excuses to get new cardboard and game objects. Which is why Universes Beyond has been such a hit.
I guess, but I don't see why we can't have both. If they gave the lore a bit more love, maybe we'd get Magic films and TV shows. It worked for Arcane. I imagine a really good movie would drive people toward the game too
Hasbro just gives a fuck about story or if we have fun. Releasing just 3 sets does not satisfy that great devourer. I have been playing Lorcana since september and love to have the time to really play a set, draft it and just enjoy before a new one drops 3 months later
Man, I bought a starter deck. I want to say Saphire Steel? The one with Captain Hook in it. And have not played it yet. Trying to talk one of my friends into getting a deck too. If I had more time I'd visit my LGS, but currently that time is mostly spent playing Mordheim (which I don't regret one bit)
The big problem with this set is that majority of it started out as part of New Capenna. But due to the political situation during that time having police/detective was considered to sensitive. So they took it all out and decided to use the removed item in murders at Karpov manor.
If true, that sucks so bad. The artwork between planes has already started to feel very similar in the last decade, but straight up using slush art from one setting for another is a new low
I agree, what’s the point of the murder mystery if there is no tension? It’s also not really what I imagine when I play Magic. The aesthetic is too much like New Capenna which I certainly didn’t enjoy narratively or aesthetically
Yeah, I watched something the other day that apparently referenced Mark Rosewater talking about how they took a bunch of cards intended for New Capenna and added them into this set instead. if that's true it may explain it. I'll have to do some digging, see if there's enough to cover it on the channel
We need blocks so desparately. They do even have to be 3 Block sets al the time, we can have 2 Block sets and some ocasional 1 Block sets but clearly this current one set per plane is not working
To be honest, I think it's an issue of quality. 3 set blocks are easier to write for, but seemingly harder to design for. I suspect if the lore was amazing, and every narrative was a winner I wouldn't be pining for 3 set blocks quite so much
Bro the phyrexian invasion ending was complete shit, like why tf u make them just go into a coma when elesh norn died, like that was some of the shittest "story" ive ever heard
Do you know what was a better done mystery? Shadows over Innistrad into Eldritch Moon. We all "knew" it was Emrakul, but we still had doubts and wanted to wait and see, and WHY. We had Clue Tokens with a literal hidden message in them related to a quote from Ugin. Even when we "knew" it was Emrakul, we still had to figure out WHY she was here and what she was up to. Nahiri had only been a Commander 2014 card, but not a main line story card yet. The reveal of how and why she did what she did was fantastic.
@@RedBobcatGames - Right, but I mean... they did the "mystery/clues/solve the thing" ... thing before and did it really well. From prsentation, two set structure [you spoke on this as well] literal clue tokens that had actual clues in tthe flavor text of the clue tokens and so forth. Even if it had ben another plane, they did it well. You know.. before Covid and the change of direction at Hasbro and WotC.
Man i got excited about the debut video cause they try to make it fun and fit the theme rather than just taking about the card but when they drop the murder i just.... Ahhhhhhh why this would have been a great debut video this is kind of set that would lead people to read the story to find out who the killer is and in the mean time how the magic story is (mostly) good!! Whyyyyy
I feel as though we're suffering from WoTC wanting to "mix it up" a lot in general. Having wildly different themes like Wilds of Eldraine (fairytales, faeries), Lost Caverns of Ixalan (dinosaurs, pre-modern south america, merfolk, vampires), and then a set about a murder ""mystery"" in a semi-modern setting (detectives, clues, disguises) is just a lot to take in. It's kind of like going to a restaurant and being offered sushi for starters, then an american steak for the main course and eskimo treats for dessert. Sure, they're cool and tasty, but they're so wildly different that it gets jarring.
Yeah. All so they don't repeat "mistakes" like original Kamigawa. Now, imagine how cool it would have been if we could have spent a year on new Kamigawa. Or in this western setting they have coming. Actually let us get into it for once, before revealing spoilers for the next product
At the very least 2 releases per set(ting) would have been nice, it would have worked extremely good with this detective set for instance .. spend 1 set setting up mysteries and then the final set wrapping them up and solving them. @@RedBobcatGames
And that's what sucks, because you're right. That's the attitude! It's like, before a set is even out they're telling us to stop caring about it. Like, okay! People will follow that advice then!
I have a friend that loves Ikoria and wishes we'd go back there. It's a shame the story beats didn't line up with the cards at all because as it stands I can't see how we'd go back unless WotC get the licence to print Godzilla cards again
The only thing I can think of is Hasbro fired a significant majority of the WOTC preview/promo department in December, & someone scrambled to make this & didn’t think “maybe don’t do the reveal in this video.” The streamer preview event on Arena is dead, & Loading Ready Run barely was able to do their annual pre-prerelease b/c they had to rely on other WOTC employees to get the product before Jan. 26 & they weren’t given money to bring other content creators up to Canada, so they had to rely on just their in house team.
Jeeze. And WotC were profitable. Why gut them like this? See, it's this sort of thing that makes me hope certain sets will flop. Because losing money seems to be the only langauge these CEOs speak
I mean, as much as I slate WotC at times, I would be thrilled if they sent me a preview card. I don't know if that's even a thing they have the people to do any more
This is one of many reasons why I was shocked to see a fresh MtG RU-vidr. Kinda feels like you've jumped onto the Titanic and are wondering why everyone is screaming... and is the ship tilting? God speed, Mr. Bob. Hopefully they'll do better if even by accident. I've loved all your videos so far. Also, ever since War of the Spark dropped the ball I personally haven't paid much attention to the lore anymore. Lord knows WotC doesn't seem to be paying it much mind either.
I see it more as everyone's screaming, and I'd finally had enough and decided to stand on a box and use a megaphone. Which, yeah just means I'm screaming like everyone else just louder, BUT at least I feel better about it. I had so much pent up frustration about the game I sort of had to funnel it somewhere. I picked RU-vid
I hope so. It felt pretty open and shut in the video though. Like, they didn't imply there was room for further mystery. Such a weird decision to make from their marketing department, because if there is more to solve, after watching that debut video I've lost interest. A shame
Maybe WotC should have looked more into Doctor Who’s past, and seen the incredible lengths they went to in order to limit spoilers, and used that as inspiration. The BBC entirely based production of Earthshock around indoor sets so no one would be able to accidentally see the real villains, shown at the end of episode one, out and about in costume.
@@RedBobcatGames this is the fifth doctor, so very much in the depths of Old Who. Still an absolutely amazing 4 parter though, so I’d recommend a watch!
My FAVOURITE line of from any Who episode is from the 4th Doctor. "Hands up. Now turn around" and he does a little 360 twirl. FANTASTIC! 11/10. Best bit of any Who episode ever
I said elsewhere on someone else's video, this set feels like it should be silver-bordered. Some of them even look silver-bordered. The Scooby-Doo Gang is in it, for crying out loud.
@@RedBobcatGames I haven't bought any new cards since Gatecrash, so there was no question I wouldn't be buying this one. I just can't understand what they're thinking these days, or why anyone is still buying cards, let alone getting into the game new at this point. Who could find this fun anymore?
@@JervisGermane I like some of what they're doing, it's just Hasbro needs to back off. They're pushing WotC WAAAAAYYYYYYYY to hard and it's resulting in errors and dross
I'm not uncompromising. I'd settle for a 2 block set, IF the stories were actually 2 parts of 1 story. And not this, two stories only vaguely related like we've seen with the recent Innistrad and Phyrexia sets. I said today in another comment, I think it would be cool if one of the sets was all new mechanics, but the other was old mechanics from when we visited the plane last time. But in my heart, I want the 3 set structure back
@@RedBobcatGames I loved the concept of The Obzedat, Ghost Council, i loved Teysa Karlov. At least she's gonna live on as a ghost, but that just means Kaya can kill her if she ever steps out of line. I don't like that.
Why is the set for this theme set on Ravnica? The set borrows heavily in both art design and themes from detective fiction ranging from the works of Arthur Doyle and Agatha Christie all the way to film noir. It's such a contemporary and western aesthetic which feels out of place on Ravnica which is inspired by Slavic and eastern European cultures. This set should have been on New Capenna which is much more appropriate from a flavor perspective.
See, I may do a video on this. I was so hyped for solving the mystery, that I haven't looked at any of the cards yet to avoid spoilers. I was goingt to wait for the set to come out. I don't know what the cards look like, but so many people have said this in the comments and I can feel another video coming on. If this is true I will become even more annoyed
I know this ain't fully related to the video, but I wanna quote my comment in one of the PleasantKenobi videos. This set just never got over the hump of convincing me the theme made sense. "I like individual cards being humorous. But this set's been giving me a nagging feeling related to that. I find the whole premise of it...'hokey'? A small story of who done it, in a game usually about wider conflicts/atmosphere, and all of the creatures suddenly have trilbies and spyglasses even if they have nothing to do with that story just so they fit into the theme of that smaller story"
Yup. Exactly my issue with Midnight Hunt and Crimson Vow. You ever see the TV show Community? It's like an episode of that where everyone has just decided to play cowboy or in this case, detective and is committed to the bit for some reason
I just wish they would take us to another plane already. Like, yeah, everyone loves Ravnica, but we need something fresh. WotC, please, take us to Xerex....
Two things, first: Careful what you wish for. A friend of mine always wanted to go to Kaldheim, and we went once and destroyed it in the process. And secondly: Perhaps Xerex is where that weird haunted manor set that I can't rememebr the name of right now will be set? The entire place is meant to be one big mansion. Could be there maybe?
Honestly (pre-video comment) I am disappointed in the """""new""""" Cloak and disguise mechanics they are literally just morph/megamorph and manifest but with an extra keyword if they wanted to do this they could have just called it 'Secret Morph' and had it enter with ward 1 or 2 (probably 1 because 2 is a lot for only 3 Mana I understand adding something extra for 3 since 2/2 for 3 is just a more expensive 2/2 for 2 and hexproof is a little too powerful for 3 Mana so I personally think Ward 1 would have been better but whacha gonna do) and just kept manifest as is just thematically changed the art for the tokens and also it ruins synergy with quite a few other cards since a number of cards that turn other cards face down specifically say "target creature with _morph_"
Story wise yes I 100% agree especially when it comes to if you want to play the story yourself for example war of the Spark yeah the story was kinda stupid but with the set and previous sets you could gather your own card from the set and build Bolas’s Army with cards from amonkhet and ravnica then you could build the decks for the heroes and have a archenemy fight were you are bolas and the other players are the gatewatch and the bolas player tries to defeat the gatewatch players before they can defeat the bolas player same with battle for zendikar although you do need a few other eldrazi from the second Zendikar set or block to make it work nicely it still felt fun to have eldrazi VS gatewatch but you can't do that anymore as if I wanted to be phyrexia trying to Invade the multiverse I can't do it because there's not enough thematically synergistic cards to do that
I'm not sure if you've seen my video on Battlecards, but I feel like narratively they're all over the place. My friend is trying to build a thematic Phyrexian deck, just like you suggested but is having a hard time with the Battles, because they all flip into creatures (or whatever) that hate Phyrexians. I have a set of Arch enemy cards somewhere. I actually really love your idea of playing as Bolas vs the gatewatch. I bet that's a really good time. See, it's that sort of thing that I love about magic. I love getting into it. You'd think the company that makes D&D would understand perhaps their players want to role play a bit sometimes
@@RedBobcatGames yeah i tried making a phyrexian theme deck but its a bit difficult trying to search for them on card searches but i just ignored the battles unless it turned into a phyrexian but yeah ive seen that video i believe i left a comment on it but yeah i think a duel card for battles would be a cool concept (my idea is you put it under the battlefield under an opponents control and both you and that player can only attack each other and only one creature at a time or somethingand then something something you win the duel and get like a loyalty on a planeswalker or an emblem or something) but yeah one of the more difficult things with making a theme deck is having to go through every card with lets say jace every card with jace on it or that mentions jace every set thats based on jace (like duel decks and spellbooks) and every precon that has jace as the main focus and from there you whittle the deck down by getting rid of useless cards (like for bolas the amass creatures that literally just when this creature enters the battlefield amass and nothing else but someone has discovered if you do things correctly you can equip your we'll keep using bolas, equip your planeswalker nicol bolas to your creature nicol bolas and attack a player with bolas holding bolas for more bolas per bolas (sorry for the long text)
@@amaya6091 Haha, so I heard you like Bolas? My next video is actually on exactly what you were just talking about (kind of). It's basically a break down of how I use scryfall to search for thematic cards to add to my decks. Sounds like you and I build the same sort of way
@@RedBobcatGames lol yep sounds like we do i just used bolas as an example because theres a lot of people making bolas decks online if you just look up 'bolas tribal' you'll find A LOT of results so its the easist example to use
I wonder if this was two different parts of the company wanting two different things. The developers wanted to have a cool, fun mystery and maybe folks higher up the chain thought that some of their audience might feel left out if they couldn't solve the mystery.
I remember my wife and I watching the debut video together (we enjoy keeping up with the story), and going “oh. Okay. I guess we don’t need to engage with this set, the part we would engage with has been presented in these 19 minutes”
to be fair, it's called murder"s" of karlov mana. this is just "a" murder solved. there's also a lot of questions about the other characters involved as it felt like a few others are still hiding things. but i agree, they should have at least separated the solution for another video or something for another day
Good point. To be fair, I still haven't engaged with the set yet. After I saw that debut video it sort of put me off. But I suspect you're right, there's probably more going on. I just couldn't believe they'd give it away like that. Still in shock
The set should have been set on New Capenna and the victim should have been Ob Nixilis. There are some theories going on about how this set came about. I wasn't quite buying into them, until I noticed the NC card "Dogged Detective" was getting reprinted (notice I said: reprinted) in a MKM commander deck - and they did NOT update the creature's type to include "detective."
That's interesting. And I believe I've heard the same theories. The ones about how these cards were pulled from New Capenna? But if the creatures types don't match, surely that suggests that these detective cards weren't supposed to be a part of that set though?
@@RedBobcatGames yeah, we can call it the "slush art" theory. The thing about the type... so historically when Magic introduces a new creature type, there's usually this mass update in Gatherer where old cards which SHOULD have that type are then given it. One of the biggest examples is when "phyrexian" was added to the game and like... THOUSANDS of old cards were updated going almost to the very beginning of the game. (may or may not have been a literal thousand) Of course every card which had "phyrexian ___" in the name got the "phyrexian" creature type. So it's just really, REALLY weird that they add a new creature type to the game, "detective" and I haven't seen a retro update yet. Especially for a card that was just made here recently AND was getting a reprint. At the very least it seems like a creature type update would be easiest to just do a gatherer search for anything with "detective" in the name and say "yep that gets this new type." But that's just a [card] game theory. 🤭
That's interesting. I'm not sure how I feel about it. I think I'm going to have to mull that over because I think I could see an argument for it from both sides. If it wasn't slush art, it would make sense not to update gatherer because you're focused on, and only seeing this new set. You're not considering the old sets or cards. And to steal some D&D terms, Detective is a class. It isn't like Pyrexian as a race, so it's less important to go back and change. Not updating the old cards could be evidence that it isn't slush art. However, if it WAS slush art. You also wouldn't want to go back and update the old cards because you wouldn't want to draw attention to where you took the images from. Yeah, I dunno. I'll stew on that one. Do we know for a fact it's slush art? Have they confirmed?
@@RedBobcatGamesOh i absolutely agree with you that it could be argued either way. No I don't have confirmation of the "slush art" theory, it's still in the tinfoil hat stage right now. 😉 A lot of the clues are people pointing out that the aesthetic of the new set is way more fitting for New Capenna than Ravnica. So if say there was way more of a law enforcement presence in NC originally that got cut.... 🤷♂ It certainly doesn't help that WotC has had so many screw ups of late this is way more believable than it might have been years ago. Heck isn't it pretty much confirmed that Dominaria was going to be a part of the 2 block model, but when they shifted gears, they took the second set and turned it into core 2019? (or is that just another conspiracy theory?) I thought they definitely did confirm that Ikoria was advanced in production to cover up the hole of the second Edlraine set.
@@simplegarak What's wild to me is that Wizards were making money. They were doing it right. But all this pressure from Hasbro is making them crack. And now all those people getting fired won't help either. Things are only going to get worse I fear
The ARG will tell us actually it was really oko pulling the strings and he ran off to thunder junction, probably Definitely a messy deployment, but chop chop, next preview season in 4 weeks!
Wouldn't it be good if it's just exactly the same ARG from Shadows Over Innistrad, and in the last chapter of the story, someone pulls back a curtain to reveal Emrakul floating there holding a bloody knife?
@@RedBobcatGames Im not quite that cynic; I think there's a nonzero possibility that the "solution" given is a ruse; the detective an unreliable narrator. That would make the audience the proper detectives, I suppose? Not acceptable as a mystery, but not an unpopular choice in some fiction.
See, now that I would enjoy. If it turns out that Proft got it wrong, and who he pointed the finger at in the debut video turns out to be innocent. Problem from WotC's perspective though is that the chances of me sticking around to find out, after their marketing team have messed it up is slim. Real shame
@@thebolas000 It's all about suspension of disbelief. You can tell your audience anything if you set solid rules as to how it works. Change those rules, and the audience says "Wait, that's not how that is" and suddenly the spell is broken. Sucks
Your example of the Simpsons doesn't really back up your argument because the answer was Maggie. At the time that was the absolute least satisfying answer and everyone hated it.
