Why New York's Lake Ontario Parkway Failed

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✵ Why New York's Lake Ontario Parkway Failed
✵ Around the end of the second world war, there was a very important shift in the US, with the country moving more towards vehicular travel. This instantly changed the way urban planning worked, with traffic increasing immediately and cities moving farther out from their downtowns. With this, the idea of freeways was thought up. During the 1940s and early 1950s, many important divided highways were built, usually as turnpikes, including the Pennsylvania Turnpike, New Jersey Turnpike and many more. Importantly, urban planners were yet to learn of the negative repercussions that would come with these highways, especially in urban areas. So powerful political figures across major cities and states began to make their plans to build wide freeways to make travel extremely efficient for cars. New York had a unique history when it comes to this, because Robert Moses resided there, and had alot of impact of the immediate planning of how things would be built. One of things that came from this was the Lake Ontario Parkway in north-central New York, a highway that looks all around weird, from its location & condition all the way to its end point, so today we are going to talk about what it is and why it’s here.
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3 окт 2024

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Комментарии : 118

@01chuggaaconroy 9 месяцев назад

While biking around Lake Ontario, struggling to find a safe road to bike on I stumbled upon the Lake Ontario State Parkway around Hamlin Beach State Park. Knowing it was a freeway I didn’t chance biking on it until I noticed a “No pedestrians or horses” sign. Immediately got onto it for one of the best rides ever. Almost no traffic and a great wide shoulder. It was amazing to travel on! Thank you for the great video!

@Kalos64 9 месяцев назад

i go to school in rochester, and though it is a GORGEOUS drive, outside of people going to some of the beaches or the park, the road is almost never used. anyone trying to get from either terminus uses almost ANY other road (most often state route 104, which is FAR better maintained) and it’s disgusting how much downstate interests have prevented almost any much-needed infrastructure improvements to the parkway (or upstate as a whole…shocker).

@TheJttv 9 месяцев назад

Yah because we dont need it.

@381delirius 9 месяцев назад

They need to remove it

@dylangtech 9 месяцев назад

Excellent talk of why Upstate New York infrasture began to degrade. Interestingly enough, the politics of it become a little reversed now, as Democrats do adopt a "10 year plan" strategy in which each governor dumps a LOT of money into some infrastructure project in Upstate NY as a means of maintaining votes. This is because hating NYC's outsized influence in our local affairs is bipartisan

@Kalos64 9 месяцев назад

absolutely, stuff like cuomo’s buffalo billion was an unmitigated disaster at best. as someone that’s left wing, part of me wants a massive upset win by a republican that gives a damn about upstate infrastructure just to give a massive wake-up call to democrats in albany. hochul’s better than cuomo was in terms of giving western new york specifically attention but it can be so much better lol

@UHaulShorts 9 месяцев назад

@@Kalos64 like *zeldin*

@Kalos64 9 месяцев назад

@@UHaulShorts i kinda saw through a lot of stuff he said, he has a lot of interests on long island. i left my vote for governor blank that year.

@UHaulShorts 9 месяцев назад

@@Kalos64 last thang *upstate* needz is 2 B pigeonheld by downstate

@katieandkevinsears7724 9 месяцев назад

Upstate should secede from the NYC area. They really do get a raw deal from the being chained to the city.

@MrTherende 9 месяцев назад

As someone who commuted from Lyndonville to Rochester (Kodak Park) in the late 1980's, I can tell you that the weather along the Lake Ontario shoreline can get very chancy and using RT 104 was a safer option in the winter. NY 531 was built in the mid-1980's to handle traffic for the Kodak Elmgrove plant (aka KAD); locally, there was never any mention of the road ever being extended west to Niagara Falls. One other note, Rochesterians has some pretty bizarre pronunciations for towns like Charlotte & Chili, not at all the way you pronounced them in your video.

@Kalos64 9 месяцев назад

chai-lye

@stevea2909 9 месяцев назад

I'm From Sha lot & Chi lye ain't something you eat. That's a different video.

@MrTherende 9 месяцев назад

@@stevea2909 Good job on the phonetic spelling; I couldn't for the life of me figure out how to do Sha lot!

@dylangtech 9 месяцев назад

@@Kalos64 That one caught me so off-guard. Yeah this city is a gem...

@JamesR1986 9 месяцев назад

The funny thing about these planned routes is that the major towns/city in that area are Lockport, Medina, Albion, Spencerport and Brockport, all of which are built around the Erie Canal and our basically connected to each other by Route 31. And neither of these proposed routes go anywhere

@jasonreed7522 9 месяцев назад

The Erie canal is probably the most important determiner of NY's demographics. It was just so rediculously important to the economy so early on that it made cities far more important than they otherwise would have been. (Including NYC which wasn't on track to be the most important east coast port until the canal made it they link between the Lakes/Interior and the Atlantic/global trade) Even today, long after the canal's frieght use has withered away around 80% of the states population lives within 30miles of it. (Technically the federally designed Empire HSR Corridor's existing tracks, but they follow similar routes and hit the same cities.)

@pghrpg4065 9 месяцев назад

The "closed in winter" portion made me think of a bridge in the Pittsburgh area that was closed any time the temperature went below freezing. They eventually demolished the old bridge and the new bridge, of course, has no such restrictions.

@stickynorth 9 месяцев назад

I always find it sad that while Southern Ontario is easily Canada's most successful region, Upstate New York is the anti-thesis... Once a great industrial region, it has fallen into disuse and disrepair much like the parkway... And yet it has great bones and potential. Here's hoping the future parade of former Sunbelt residents who move North to escape the Southern heat think about this region when it comes to places to move to... It's cheap, it's relatively low-crime and it's almost in Canada!

@bmjv77 9 месяцев назад

Consistent Democrat rule over the past 50 years. There's your answer.

@pseydtonne 9 месяцев назад

The Golden Horseshoe of Ontario is, besides the peninsula west of it to Windsor, the southernmost point in Canada. This has some of the most fertile land, the best access to two great lakes, and the longest stretch of the year with unfrozen ground. That nearly a quarter of Canada's population lives here, up to three hours from Toronto, lives in this region. Across Lake Ontario are the farthest reaches of New York State from New York City. The Erie Canal brought this land its century and a half of fortunes, followed by half a century of undeserved collapse. This is fertile land, but so is everything going south for the next few hundred miles.

@jonathanbowers8964 9 месяцев назад

@@UHaulShortsthe winters are getting more mild up here And the summers are getting worse in the South. In my opinion, anyone currently moving to the Sunbelt is an absolute buffoon with no real capacity for long term thinking.

@highlymedicated2438 9 месяцев назад

@jonathanbowers8964 Yeah, but unfortunately there's not going to be a great migration to upstate new york in our lifetimes so just get used to how it is right now

@highlymedicated2438 9 месяцев назад

@@jonathanbowers8964It's so crazy to me that more people want to live in florida than upstate new york.

@HistorianOfThings 9 месяцев назад

I used to drive this road between Lewiston and Rochester a lot. On a lot of days and nights the road was completely empty...it felt like a ghost road, especially at nights.

@krash66 9 месяцев назад

Wow, very well researched!! I have been there many times and always wondered about it's history

@BeaverGeography 9 месяцев назад

Glad you enjoyed it!

@KeoniPhoenix 9 месяцев назад

I haven driven on it both in the Winter and in the Summer, it was always empty but there was considerable ice heave of the concrete in the western most portion that is still primarily concrete and its in as bad shape as google maps shows. I consider it a good alignment for a possible new Interstate 92 route some time in the future.

@jaredabbate2402 8 месяцев назад

There is allot of abandoned roads and projects in the state alone. For the Ontario State Parkway, this could have been one of the nicest Parkways in the country its still a nice only half of it. Thanks for the share!

@davidtosh7200 9 месяцев назад

Future I-98 has been mentioned for the Upstate of New York for 15-20 years ago, but I am not too sure about it.

@jasonreed7522 9 месяцев назад

The "rooftop highway" is pretty much pointless. The north country just doesn't have the population to justify an interstate, nor the economy to pay for the maintenance of one. Hell most of the time route 11 (1 lane each way, not divided) is pretty empty and its only slow between Canton and Potsdam because some people think they should drive 50 on that stretch. Basically all the towns it would pass through would either get leveled or have 1 exit on the outskirts because the biggest towns have a population of around 10k. 1-98 never needs to exist, the only reason to build it is to have the highest numbered interstate the system allows. (Not counting spur routes)

@jaxons.7766 9 месяцев назад

Pleeeeease talk about the mixmaster that surrounds downtown Dallas. Connects I-35E, I-30, I-45, US-75, plus connects with the Dallas North Tollway and Woodall Rogers Freeways.

@iamsandrewsmith 9 месяцев назад

I drove this road on a trip a few years ago. I was basically the only car -- it was summertime, so you would think there would have been at least a few people going to the beaches -- and there were gaping holes in the road with six-foot-tall weeds growing through them. It felt like I had stumbled into the aftermath of the apocalypse.

@stevea2909 9 месяцев назад

Was on it today. Once I was on it at 147 mph, when I was young and stupid. Wouldn't do that now, road is crap. At one time, it was pristine concrete, but now paved over with asphalt, and it peels, especially those last 10 miles west.

@StickmanStudoes 9 месяцев назад

As a Rochesterian, excellent and well done video. Can confirm it’s very bumpy at the last portion but if you take it easy, you should be ok. It certainly has seen better days. Scenery is a plus as well. On the plus side, due to the limited traffic, it is pretty much the only highway where you can legally ride your bike on since the state has marked it as a bike route. It’s something that I really want to do one day. Also didn’t know about the whole NY-531 about it going to Buffalo initially (knew it was supposed to go further, but didn’t think it was planned to go that far). Very nteresting.

@zimz1096 9 месяцев назад

6:34 if you go on the westbound lanes with oct 2012 street view, you can find one other car. but yeah other than that no one drives on this section of the road

@rhob2422 9 месяцев назад

I am interested in learning more about that Seaway Trail project you mentioned, perhaps another video?

@bjdon99 9 месяцев назад

When I lived there back in the 1990s, there was absolutely no traffic on it. But in the summer it’s a really pretty ride, and Hamlin State Park is very attractive as a day trip place. Lakeside not as much. In the Niagara side, an even shorter version was built. Up around the lake. It’s that big gap in between that nobody notices because nobody drives ut

@blackpanda7298 9 месяцев назад

I would love to see your take on the St. Lawrence seaway, Welland canal, and all the other waterways in the system. I think you do such a great job on it. If you haven’t already, I need to check all your videos. ❤

@BeaverGeography 9 месяцев назад

I'll check it out!

@redbeard1976 9 месяцев назад

I traveled this route as an alternate from Niagara Falls to Greece/Rochester and can confirm. There were hardly any cars until I got to spitting distance to roc metro and the road conditions were dreadful in the western portion. Very pretty and scenic tho but does not connect any towns and doesn't have any services along the route aside from the 2 state parks. An interesting alternate from the thruway if you have the time. Bring your own snacks, hope you don't have a toilet emergency, and gas up

@scooterh7047 9 месяцев назад

Dude you gotta talk about the nearby Niagara Scenic Parkway sometime, that story has a lot of depth and half of the route is basically gone these days.

@firedflesh5427 9 месяцев назад

I wanted to know about this so much!!!! I’m always wondering about that highway dead end being a local. Thank you so much!!

@brucetelfeyan 9 месяцев назад

Thanks for the great history. I always wondered what happened.

@Con-b6x 9 месяцев назад

It's so fun to drive in the summer, and it's a pain to navigate the closed road in the winter

@jonm1999 9 месяцев назад

I like these semi-abandoned road videos for some strange reason. It’s like dead malls for roads.

@deadmallition 9 месяцев назад

Colborne/Wilson Street from Brantford to Ancaster, Ontario is another smaller dead road.

@travis69665ify 4 месяца назад

I grew up in orleans county and can fully agree the west end is way worse than the rest of it. A lot of very rough spots

@history_leisure 9 месяцев назад

They should either just give up on the portion west of Hamlin Beach all together (ending at NY 272) or build a new interchange with NY 18 and focus on upgrading that highway instead-the parkway spread has non-freeway portions so putt in the parkway shield on NY 18 if desired should not be a barrier

@ksmith610 9 месяцев назад

Punctuation is a wonderful thing. Try it sometime.

@michaelpjeffries1521 9 месяцев назад

The Ontario side has waterfront trail for outdoor enthusiasts. My parents had property expropriated for construction of QEW in 50's, apparently it allowed some degenerates to make last call in two countries in one evening.

@necroslair 9 месяцев назад

I filmed this road about 12 years ago and it was in dismal condition and had almost no traffic on it then. Aside from one stretch it seems nothing has changed.

@dans656 9 месяцев назад

I used to live inHamlin, halfway between Route 104 and the parkway. I believe that constructing a senic lakeside parkway all the way up to the canadian boreder is the only realistic long-term solution for the roadway. The only major connection on the Long Ontario State Parkway is Route 390 whcih brings you to Rocherster, otherwise it is a parkway that serves a spasely populated area.

@greggs3808 3 месяца назад

A geography point, Charlotte Is not north of Rochester, it is a section of Rochester. The city goes to the lake in a salient along the Genesse River.

@MrTwostring 9 месяцев назад

I tell everybody every time it comes up that roads are falling apart because we've built more than we can afford to maintain. This is a good example. We used to have a friend out in Kendall - west of Hamlin Beach - and we hated the last several miles of Parkway before getting off. There is very little traffic until you get closer to Rochester - and I always wondered why the Parkway is even there. Thanks for this history. Note that in Rochester, the accent in Charlotte is on the O -- shar-LOTT, not SHAR-lut, like the city in North Carolina. Brockport is - BROCK-port. And I agree. 531 is a very useful road. I use it every week. There's a lot more population there with Spencerport and Brockport.

@markvolpe2305 9 месяцев назад

Wasn't the I-990 supposed to connect to one of those routes to Rochester?

@Alcofoamer 9 месяцев назад

I-990 was only ever supposed to go to Lockport. If 531 was ever extended to Niagara Falls, the two would have met there, but there were never any plans that I know of for I-990 and the LOSP to ever connect.

@lutchlutive 9 месяцев назад

Could you do a video on Illinois Route 6? I think it was supposed to go to Chicago but is now only a spur route in the Peoria area.

@SnowmanTF2 9 месяцев назад

Odd project, the lakeview might be pretty but drastically cuts down on area it plausibly could ever serve, it seems like it would have made more sense to go between 31 and 104, so actually would serve dozens of existing cities larger than the current route (granted still somewhat small by US standards) and be a more direct route between the larger metros connected. It even seem hard to argue that the cities along the route would have grown much more if it had been completed, since both Rochester/Niagara ends extend more than 15 minute drives from those metros.

@jasonreed7522 9 месяцев назад

Definitely a weird placement for a road. Anyone who knows anything about New York demographics can tell you that the Erie Canal is king, it enabled so much growth in the early days of the state that the impacts are still very visible with most large settlements being along its original route. (And therefore most of the transportation demand still follows that old routing of the best path for ships to go around the Appalachians)

@PhillyBagel 9 месяцев назад

If it’s that hazardous and little used, I see no reason they won’t soon abandon the end past Route 98.

@UHaulShorts 9 месяцев назад

loox like thurr might a been a similar attempt (104 》3) Rochester - Watertown

@FameyFamous 9 месяцев назад

I just googled "lake Ontario parkway". Evey link points to Lake Ontario State Parkway. You omitted the word "state" from the name almost every time! You should have mentioned the plan to connect the LOSP to the Niagara Scenic Parkway.

@JamesR1986 9 месяцев назад

He did, it's part of the Seaway trail.

@jhawkkw87 9 месяцев назад

Something worth noting, I wouldn't say that the LOSP was ever up to interstate standards. The shoulders aren't particularly large and most of the bridges over the parkway can't accommodate tall vehicles. Like many of the downstate parkways, it's a road designed for traditional cars and can't handle box trucks or semis.

@davestewart2067 9 месяцев назад

Early standards (1944-67) specified bridge clearances of 14’-0”. Meaning over mainline lanes. That was later raised to 16’-5”. A standard semi is 13’-6” just making it under these earlier bridges. Many early bridges remain, on the system, grandfathered in. Shoulders on mainline bridges weren’t specified until ‘66-‘67 either.

@jhawkkw87 9 месяцев назад

@@davestewart2067 The LOSP bridges have clearances between 11' and 12' depending on which lane you are in because they're arched overpasses. No where near even the old standards.

@davestewart2067 9 месяцев назад

Thank you for the insight. Was speaking of Interstate standards, not northeastern parkway standards. This road likely has a lot in common with some of the downstate parkways. Saw Mill Taconic etc.

@zachc8190 9 месяцев назад

Love your videos man

@Jarocny585 9 месяцев назад

A Rochester video????? Thought that would never happen

@DTPGMedia585 9 месяцев назад

MY CITY ROCHESTER NY.... WOOOOO

@ryanwolff4058 9 месяцев назад

The Lake Ontario Parkway is in western New York. There is no such place as north central NY. Northern NYS and central NYS and western NYS are 3 different sections of New York State. The regional expressway plan you attribute to Niagara Falls was from the 1961 Erie-Niagara Counties Regional Planning Commission (which was dissolved in 1991).

@jamesmelcher9355 9 месяцев назад

I’ve been on it-pretty scenery and very little traffic.

@nathanweiss5174 9 месяцев назад

This seems like a good example of a roadway being designed for the areas it goes through. And not seeing the need to force Interstate standards on a roadway that doesn't really need it. And better yet not throwing money at maintaining a section of road that no one uses. The bridges west of 98 will likely need to be deemed unsafe at some point, and that western stretch abandoned fully. Most places there seem to be 3-4 hours from I-90 which really makes any additional interstate routes through that area uncalled for. Some connecting state routes built at or near interstate standard only where needed seems like the much smarter outcome.

@marcialynn3469 9 месяцев назад

I lived in Rochester and went to college outside of Buffalo where my bf used to live.....I drove this hwy a lot. Always empty...and I wondered. It's Brock-port not Brook port... And Charlotte is accented on the "Lot" shar-LOT

@marcialynn3469 9 месяцев назад

hola from Baja

@thomasrinschler6783 9 месяцев назад

You might want to look at its western counterpart, the Niagara Scenic Parkway, which basically does the same thing (goes up to a state park and then just dead-ends into a surface road). Looking from above with Google Maps, or any atlas for that matter, it's pretty obvious the two were supposed to be one big road with a middle section that was never completed.

@street_ruffian 9 месяцев назад

I feel like the political power shift to proportional population, and therefore downstate, is overly simplistic of an answer to why the project was abandoned. It would be interesting to figure out the specifics on support, or lack thereof, for the parkway in Rochester and Niagara Falls. As someone who lived in Rochester for a while, while they ripped out the eastern portion of the inner loop, I do wonder if even in Rochester there was little support for this parkway. Expensive and destructive projects would have been fresh on people minds, the suburban sprawl was not rapidly heading to the northwest lake front, and with the 70s seeing a worsening economy, people probably prioritized reduced spending and when spending it would be for projects much closer to Rochester or even higher priortity to the spencerport expressway as this serves more people. I just feel this specific highway was always a bad idea and it being built at all i think is more representative of why western new york and the rest of upstate has declined rather than the lack of it being finished. Frivolous and destructive highway building burdened the state and sucked the life out of the economic centers like Rochester, Buffalo, and Syracuse. If the parkway was finished it probably would have faced a similar lack in upkeep (even if not as bad) because i doubt it would have caused a lot of development. NY built way too many pointless highways and clearly struggles to maintain not only highly used Rochester area highways but very important highways around NYC.

@DTPGMedia585 9 месяцев назад

I hate to be the guy to correct you. But it actually called Char-LOT not Char-LET so its Char-LOT beach same thing with chili is it CHY-LIE

@chibinyra 9 месяцев назад

Good Afternoon =o)

@FreeJaffa92 9 месяцев назад

I think we’ve found a future candidate for a rail road track over. 😂 . . . Not serious.

@FameyFamous 9 месяцев назад

Convert the parkway to a bikeway?

@Alcofoamer 9 месяцев назад

The LOSP for its entire route actually parallels the former Rome, Watertown & Ogdensburg Railroad aka the "Hojack" line, which was abandoned in the 1970's.

@FreeJaffa92 9 месяцев назад

@@Alcofoamer yes. Thanks legitimately for the information. Still not serious.

@gui18bif 9 месяцев назад

Make a video on the trans-american highway

@time2fly2124 9 месяцев назад

we have one basically, I-90 goes from Boston to Seattle

@Taladar2003 9 месяцев назад

If Robert Moses was in favour of it it should probably be torn down asap anyway.

@jonathanbowers8964 9 месяцев назад

That or just turn it into a giant bike path . Maybe add a nice light rail line to make full use of the space.

@jasonreed7522 9 месяцев назад

The only good thing Robert Moses helped was the Moses-Saunders dam on the St. Lawrence River, 2GW capacity of hydroelectric power and it is vital for water level control to enable the St. Lawrence Seaway to function properly. Its weird going on the internet and having the man who's name is associated with a generally accepted as good thing/wise investment be constantly slandered. (Admittedly he deserves all the slander considering his actions in NYC. Manhattan is literally the opposite of where interstate standard roads belong.)

@xerorenegado15 9 месяцев назад

Im from Rochester nice town but my god a stupid place that shoots itself in the foot since the fall of Kodak (internal rasism, arrogance, nepotism led to its demise) the fast ferry was the goofiest thing imaginable for the city. Why would anyone feom Toronto want to come here. Sure theres basic average amenities other cities have as well but thats it you can find other more interesting things to do for yher than here. Honestly I can't wait to move.

@TheEpicDiamondMiner 9 месяцев назад

Is the state planning to demolish this?

@KeoniPhoenix 9 месяцев назад

The state doesn't know what to do with it, its actually used mostly in the summer as its a good route to get to lakeside attractions along the Lakeshore. Unlike other parkways in WNY, this one still has potential, its just unfinished.

@Kalos64 9 месяцев назад

there’s been talks of demolition and/or just letting it rot away but as it stands there’s more likely just going to be enough minor improvements to keep trees from sprouting out of the left lane pavement but not enough to make it worth using unless you’re one of the 6 people that lives right there on the lake but works in northern rochester/irondequoit

@rpol7966 9 месяцев назад

You failed to mention the underside of the overpasses being designed as a low arch over the road as being low enough to eliminate commercial traffic. All of Robert Moses' parkway overpasses as well as the LOSP were designed to keep BUSSES off the parkways, thereby keeping people too poor to own cars from showing up at his state park beaches. He was not the nice person people think he was. Do your research. BTW, it's BROCKport and the locals here pronounce Charlotte as sha-LOT (no "R' in the pronunciation).

@ravBuffalo 9 месяцев назад

It’s Western New York… please get your geography straight!

@SamMBacci 9 месяцев назад

I’m a new yorker! l feel angry about people blaming new york for their roads! 😡

@twackz4481 9 месяцев назад

I love beaverman1 please make among us videos

@KPAX-8 9 месяцев назад

I love you beaveman1 please make among us video please

@MikeV8652 9 месяцев назад

Oh, no! You've suddenly acquired the annoying habit of uptalking. If you don't know what that is, search for videos about it, watch a few, then banish it forever.

@xp8969 9 месяцев назад

Lmfao, cry harder snowflake

@gui18bif 9 месяцев назад

I do not think so

@No1reallydies 6 месяцев назад

Can u do a video on comparing the Chicago VS Detroit on how they built out the main road along the water. Chicago: Lakeshore Drive Vs Detroit: Jefferson Ave