That moment when you click on a video about poorly designed transmissions, and the transmission featured in the video is from the same make, model, and year of the high mileage car you’re driving now.
I have heard that if you change the fluid every 20,000 miles and drive them gently they will actually last a really long time. Is this what you've done
We have 3 CVTs at our dealer this week, 2013 juke with 150k that I just finished replacing the CVT in today, a rogue that came in today don't know the year or milage, and I believe a Sentra coming in tomorrow again not sure on year or milage as I didn't get that info from our SA.
This is true. My versa has 130k. Fluid/filter changes every 30k. Runs fine. Just do the maintenance people. I swear half of the “unreliable” shit is just things that have poor tolerance for people who dont follow service intervals.
And we were considering buying a Nissan Murano in 2005 when we were looking for a safe and reliable car to transport my wife and I and our newborn. After reading about issues with Nissan's CVT, we settled on a 2005 Toyota Avalon which we still have and drive today.
I own a 2009 murano, and i thrash the thing daily. The cvt definetly holds up to it. I havent serviced it since ive owned it, about 20,000km. Definetly servicing it after this video though
Exactly - the point of contact on a spherical ball is tiny. WTF were they thinking - more than a hundred years of engineering experience and they still make such a howling blunder.
I really wish they'd just charge an extra $1000 to actually make a good CVT and make them have EASY sensors/reminders on the dash for fluid changes and other maintenance items. Most people FORGET to do transmission fluid changes......
@@ChaohsiangChen Well yeah. I think CVTs are really cool, but they always cheap out vs just offering a good quality product :( But offering a manual and standard automatic would be ideal.
Or just put in a current 8-speed auto, that actually works. Yes, everybody but Nissan has them. I can't believe that after 20 years, Nissan hasn't given up on CVT's. This will end the Company soon.
@@ssmith4013I’ll never understand it either. We see Kia/hyundai pump out all sorts of DCTS & cvts but Nissan can’t prototype a better geared transmission?
Where i reside, Nissan Sunny N16’s with the old 4-speed autos and 5-speed manuals are literally considered the only thing that is as reliable and durable as a toyota corolla. Some even prefer them over corollas due to how basic they are. It is unfortunate how rubbish their modern cars are.
My mom's 2013 Nissan Altima CVT failed at 51k miles (even with the fluid change and Nissan knew it was flawed) while my 2011 Nissan Versa with 4-speed Automatic that hasn't failed still rolling at 255k miles. I admit it that 2nd gear is starting to slip a bit
A reasonable person would think that Nissan would be smart enough to realize that their CVT transmissions are ruining their reputation and having a MAJOR impact on their sales. At this point I don't see any way forward with CVTs even if they say they have resolved all the issues. They better come up with an alternative to the CVTs and QUICK or they will be OUT OF BUSINESS!
This is one example of a trend that is quite common for the last 20+ years. Technologies are introduced that, at least on paper, are very promissing. Lower fuel consumption (CVT), lighter engine arcitecture(Wet belt, common in Stellantis engines), lower carbon emissions (EGR and EATS) and higher digital complexity(Computer that controls basicly everything in the car, like Tesla) for example. However, the problem with most of these solutions seems that they often prove to complex, to unrelaible for long term use. It gives me the feeling that many cars these days are solely designed to look good on in an add. What do you think?
I dont think its some conspiracy, these cars are just designed by people who are completely detatched from reality. They are designed to last 5 years as flashy status symbols for western upper middle class people. Because the designers are living in this bubble themselves. They could never imagine that thair cars will have to be maintained 25 years later by some poor guy in pakistan. Narrow minded first world mindset at work!
Usually the tech is sound ...Until the bean counters come in and whelp you end up with Nissans cvt's . But CVT's are perfect for 90% of vehicle applications but it also has to be built for durability. CVT is so good it was banned in F1 as giving an unfair advantage ( supposedly)
Thanks for the tear down. The balls that were originally used in the pulley grooves (key-way) are usually replaced with machined pins. This will prevent wear and failure in the pulley.
Had a 2009 Altima 2.5SL that I bought new. Sold the car in 2016 with 165K miles on it. Car was 100% original when sold. Used only full synthetic engine oil changed every 10,000mi and changed fluid in the CVT @55,000mi and 120,000mi. I even got 108,000 miles out of the factory brake pads/rotors before I changed them. Car was comfortable and consistently got 28-33mpg. I guess I got lucky that I never had transmission issues. I also never treated it like a GT mustang.
I drove a Nissan rental with CVT once. It was weird. Engine rpm seldom matched what the car was doing. I can't imagine what one would be like if the trans was failing
Nissan doesn't make any CVTs. They (and almost everyone else) use Jatco transmissions. Honda and Toyota are about the only exceptions. Honda actually does make a CVT themselves and Toyota has a subsidiary that makes them.
Those CVT transmissions will last if owners got off their pocketbook and had the oil changed frequently. They leave the original stuff in and get them stuck in snow and floor it and haul weight. Fried oil does not protect anymore and bye bye bearing set and orings. Nissan does sell a repair kit for this type but you have to scrounge around getting the special small ones that always are fried and no chain in the kit otherwise you can rebuild it. I 100% agree with the poster to Get A Cooler!! Maybe add an external oil tank so it's always cool and "fresh" because the temperature in there will cook a chicken and it ruins the little bit of oil it has. Once this oil is botched then everything else fails eventually. Nobody ever thinks that regularly changing transmission oil is important. Engine engine engine oh gotta get on it change the oil I want full synthetic racing oil but leave the dirty burnt dishwater in the transmission. Its up to you to make your vehicle last longer.
We’ve put 190k on our HRV and it’s been flawless. I was hesitant buying it based on Nissans reputation with CVT’s but it has a lifetime powertrain warranty through the dealer so that was enough to give peace of mind.
My 14 honda coupe had a grinding sound. CVT had worn bearings. They should never have used these junky trans. Costed 5500.00 for a used 51k mile replacement cvt from the junkyard
Rogues seem to get it bad. I have two coworkers, each with a Rouge, and they both had transmission issues - one failed entirely and was sold off. Admittedly, one of these two was owned by a couple who do not strike me as responsible, intelligent, or safe - on or off the road, and the # of accidents, deer impacts, and general car issues they have, yearly, could tell the tale. The poor Rogue got little to no maintenance (because maintenance costs money) and was likely RACED from red light to red light, hard braking every stop.
I bought my '16 Maxima SV new. I now have 160,000 miles. Still pulls like a train. I did not miss any CVT services. The car has been great to me (so far). No major issues. I change all fluids in the car (not just oil; everything liquid). That X-tronic CVT has a filter attached to the side of the case and a strainer inside the transmission's oil pan. Those need changing also (it's not listed in the Nissan maintenance schedule pamphlet; but it needs it).
@@vqdriver Yes, all service was done at the dealership (so yes, they use the NS3). I was only recently (150K miles) able to "convince them" to also change the filters-most dealerships won't do it since it's not in the Nissan maintenance schedule, so they think it's unnecessary. But they finally did it and the car now gets up to 4mpg better on the highway just due to the filter change (compared to changing fluid only).
There is an incredible amount of design work in that transmission. All the machinery needed to make all those parts is astounding. Thousands of people had to be in on the design. It looks as good as anyone else's CVT. It looks to me a few poor quality seals and maybe some parts not hardened properly is making these turn to junk in just a few years. Giving Nissan a very bad reputation for quality. Plus it is causing many thousands of good work by very talented people to just go to waste.
It's still wild to me that Nissan is known for mass producing the most hated and disposable pulley CVTs (XTRONIC) ever made, while also being acclaimed back in the late 1990s for developing a RWD-based toroidal CVT (EXTROID). A complete 180 for Nissan imo.
I still find it interesting that nissan, who's customers generally just want an appliance that will move them about, without thought or concern for their car's well being, decided to use such a maintenance intensive transmission in the mainstream appliance cars. They hold up ok in the smaller cars with regular fluid changes, but outside of that it's kind of all doom and gloom. I can appreciate the upsides that a cvt offers, but man did they fail to deliver on this one for the core nissan demographic (which they unfortunately share with kia)
Honda, Hyundai/KIa, and Toyota are using CVTs more frequently in their small vehicles. They're better than Nissan CVTs but they will fail prematurely too if not maintained properly.
That's actually not something you can compare. Nissan has more CVTs on the road than any other manufacturer, they were the first to use it across almost their entire line up. Only in the last 5-10 years has everyone else started using them. And now everyone is making it standard. So of course Nissan is gonna have more failures, it's simple math... Subaru and Kia are quickly catching up and in fact have had more failures in newer gens than Nissan. Nissan has actually improved their CVTs, almost as though they learned from 15 years of failures. Nissan effectively beta tested the CVT for everyone else. Now they have to live with that reputation.... Idk I have never had an issue with any of my CVTs, but I don't drive like I'm in a race, monitor my transmission regularly with consult-2 and change my CVT fluid every 15k miles.
CVT's are way cheaper to make. Gears take skilled gear grinders, that you have to pay. Most of the parts in there are cast, CNC milled, or stamped. Machine made automation.
@ssmith4013 It's always all about that almighty dollar. It's too bad they have such a high failure rate. Being able to keep an engine in its peak efficiency range regardless of demands has a lot of appeal for the vast majority of how cars are typically used. I just worry that the high failure rate will have the same effect on cvt's going forward (assuming the longevity problems get fixed, other manufacturers introduce better models, ect) as the gm diesel 350 debacle of years past had on the US diesel car market.
We have the Mitsubishi version, a 2011 Outlander with 140K miles. It's decent basic transportation, though underpowered. Ours is FWD, and we don't tow. We also change the fluid at the dealer every 30K miles. Maybe Mitsubishi did something right with these that Nissan didn't?
Yes, the engines were weaker, the engine computer did not abruptly release torque and the cooling of the transmission was bigger capacity than in Nissans. That is why you say your car is underpowered. Mitsubishi designed it that way to keep the CVT alive. And it works.
Have a friend who works at Nissan. He says AVOID ANY MODEL WITH CVTs. Avoid them like the plague. There are many ongoing class action lawsuits. But from the company's perspective, the cost of fighting the lawsuits is still significantly cheaper than putting a real transmission in cars. These things are dirt cheap and not made to last.
The reason they fail is no one changes their CVT oil I change mine every 30,000 miles and have almost 200k on it with no problems this goes for all CVT vehicles but Nissans seem to have more problems with dirty oil
@@pricetagcitrusactually you have to change the atf with pretty much the same interval for almost all automatic transmission. Better change it and safe rather than being a cheapskate then sorry
From what I've learned about CVT failure over the years points to the belt itself. Other than fluid loss and various other component failures the belts are most likely to fail due to the design. Belts are made up of some 200+ butterfly shaped segments held together by narrow thin steel bands. The belts are constantly flexing as they traverse the two pulleys. Steel can only be flexed so many times before it becomes fatigued and breaks. Some of the better belts have more steel bands increasing reliability, but they still will eventually give up.
It appears that the CVT was still functional albeit barely so due to the heavy wear on the pulley shaft keyways on the drive variator. Insufficient pressure most likely caused this as you pointed out in your video.
Nissan focuses on leases and they don't teach customer that although CVT is much better for fuel mileage and drives better than a torque converter based multi speed translate it needs more aggressive service. This is based on working at a massive dealership. It has nothing to do with being popular with any particular ethnic group
It’s amazing that model of jatco CVT was released with its short comings at that time. And also let it be matched with engines take over loaded it. Jatco CVT’s are used in alot of different brands including Japanese built Toyotas. It was a US wider problem because of larger engine and vehicle sizes.
For an automatic transmission CVT’s are very efficient, but you have to look after them via regular maintenance. Also ease into the transmission from a stop until it’s up to speed, nothing really wrong with them just owners not understanding the operation of said transmission.
Nope. Early CVTs are undoubtedly a complete TRASH. Class action lawsuit doesn't appear out of nowhere you know? Now it is okay. Just change fluid every 30k KMS. And you would be okay for ~240-250k kms
The reason why they fail so much is lack of maintenance CVT get very hot. Obviously you got the metal belt all that friction to a lot of heat, heat breaks down fluid. The color of that fluid shows that it was never replaced. It’s supposed to be green it’s not supposed to look like engine oil with 10,000 miles on it that burnt decorated oil causes the belt to slip because CVT fluid is traction fluid i’m that fluid goes bad. It allows about the slip which creates more friction which causes to get hotter and it’s a cascade after that the fluid supposed to be changed and Nissan because of lack of cooling every 30,000 miles and in cvt is with proper cooling like the Mitsubishi outlander those need their fluid changed every 60,000 miles
And also naturally, CVT‘s make a lot of metal debris because of the metal band rubbing against the two variators and the belt with the two bags in it all that rubbing causes metal debris which clogs up the filters in the transmission, which causes fluid starvation which destroys bearings all because of maintenance because Nissan never put in the owners manual to change the fluid every 30,000 miles
I know there are lemon CVTs but as long as these things are maintained properly it will last. Many cars barely last 180k these days. My Altima has given me less issues than my 2016 Honda accord .. and the honda is 5 years newer.
I have three Sentras. I bought them new in 2011, 2013, and 2015. All have over 100K miles. The only problem we had was with the 2013. At 129K miles, it took 2,500 rpm’s to go 70 mph (normal is 2,000 rpm’s to go 70). The transmission could have gone another few years, but we chose to get it replaced with a new transmission at the dealer for $3,500.
After market trans cooler is a must and its a good idea to bypass the radiator trans cooler directly to the after market cooler cause the radiators are famous to leak coolant into trans!
I think my cvt was starting to fail on those grooves. I got the fluid changed at 45k. I noticed after 30k when you let go of the gas in a parking lot, i would hear and feel a shaft wiggle back and forth a few times.
Thank god Mazda has avoided going CVT in their cars thus far. CVT's are not worth the small gain in fuel economy if you plan to keep the car outside of the powertrain warranty. If you are leasing a car then a CVT is fine but I would be highly concerned about buying a used car with 100k on it that has a CVT. The exception might be Toyota as they are probably the only company who I have reasonable faith in where CVT's are concered. They have been using them in Priuses and other hybrids for 20 years and plenty of Priuses on the road with over 200k and their original trannies. Toyota seems to have mastered it.
The toyota prius/hybrid cvt/ford hybrid cvt are not belt types. They use planet gears and electric motor for the power split and ratios. No belts. They are an eCVT.
@@adamn7516 Mazda was using ford automatics and their deals between each other, they kept using them or whatever ford spec for their counterpart cars. Subaru, Nissan, and Mitsubishi are all Jatco transmission, in which Nissan owns the controlling stake in.
As soon as I saw the thumbnail my first thought was 'I betcha they neglected changing the trans fluid' and it was mentioned that the fluid didn't appear to be changed a number of times in the video. CHANGE YOUR FLUID FOLKS! Not to say Nissan CVT's don't have issues but you neglect any maintenance, especially long term, it's gonna come back and bite ya. I read somewhere that CVT's don't like jack rabbit type starts from a full stop. No idea if that's true but it makes sense to my brain that if CVT's aren't as robust as a 'regular' transmission, gunning the vehicle away from a dead stop will put a high load on the CVT and cause premature wear. My new 2024 vehicle has a CVT and I always start from a full stop gently and then once the vehicle is moving accelerate up to speed. Will it make a difference? Probably but who knows, time will tell. Having said all that I dated a woman for 4 years who had a 2012 Altima and have to say, I've never witnessed a vehicle so neglected and abused in all my life. That car should have died many times over yet kept trucking on without complaint. I saw her and the Altima about a year after we broke up with more dents in it and dragging some part that was now hanging underneath the body, the car still trucking on. Wonder if it finally gave up but if it has, it wasn't for lack of engineering or build quality.
They get abused because they are economy cars. CVTs are in economy cars because they get better gas mileage. Hence the endless loop of failing vehicles
That's fine, but a transmission shouldn't require oil changes that often, one can argue, since the other designs don't. On the other hand, if you make it as easy to change as engine oil and filter, then maybe we're on to something.
@@pfsantos007 IMO CVT transmissions(specially JATCO) are more sensitive to maintenance than other designs most repair shops suggested 30K in my country(hot climate region) and it definitely helps transmission and car manufacturers, they do their best to convince car owners not to change the transmission oil because they don't want the car to last beyond car's guaranty so as a car owner we need to find a way to maintain it.
Its still blows my mind that we rely solely on friction to turn/push thr variators without teeth or ribs. Alot of cvts arent loved but they are fascinating
And thanks to informative material like this one I know one thing: stay the f away from CVTs. I almost bought one, my God. Thanks for walking us through the inner workings, partner.
@thx1138guy I can only speak for myself though there might be a few who will believe this. I've owned quite a few cars over the years and 90% are manual transmission. I've been living in NYC for almost 40 years and that's all I drive. I do it for the main reason, a manual transmission is more reliable than any other transmission that there is. I must say I drive in heavy or light traffic without giving it any though as after driving a manual for a week or two (in the beginning of me learning) everything becomes natural. That's just how I see it but I guess, to each his/her own.
Aren't CVTs essentially throw away transmissions? Are there outfits out there that rebuild these? From what I've heard, Honda, Toyota, and Subaru makes the best CVTs.
Labor to rebuild is usually more expensive. Can't speak to Toyota and Honda, but Subarus are solid for daily use but are crippled by any amount of abuse (be it extending the 60k fluid, not beating it until it's warmed but also not letting it overheat, or towing literally anything or increasing the load with kayaks or other gear on the roof). Their old geared transmissions weren't known for reliability, so I guess it's a wash in the end
Changing that cooler filter, the one most dealers won't admit to existing, is paramount (about every 40-50K miles) and driving steady footed on the accelerator. People that dart in and out of lanes on the interstate going to the floor every time don't do well with CVT's. I worked at Mitsubishi as a tech for 15 years and the older 1st gen CVT was tougher as the newer ones, like that one, have a wider range and heat up more. Getting one replaced inside of warranty is a smart move if you can figure a non noticeable way to make sure it fails but it shouldn't be too tough as the wide ratio CVT had about a 70% failure rate before warranty ran out. Or you can just avoid Jeeps, Dodges, Mitsubishis, and Nissans with the Jatco CVT altogether. That's my choice.
I mean shouldn't we avoid Mitsubishi and Chrysler products any way? never seen a good Chrysler product since the last AMC 4.0 engines were in the Wrangler in about 2005 unless you count Cummins trucks
if I knew about CVT transmissions at the time I bought my 2017 Rogue new, I probably would not have purchased it. That being said I got a great price on it, it only has 2500.00 miles, I like the way it performs, and I do not drive it aggressively. I am taking it to the dealer next week for it's first CVT oil change . I plan to do oil changes every 25-30 ,000 miles, so the car should last me a good while. It's paid off so I plan to drive it for a good long while, God willing.
I was a huge fan of their models in the 80's and 90's, along with some of their competitors both import and a few domestics. Nissan's reputation dropped quite a bit when they partnered with that CVT company and started putting them on everything. But the manual models were still good for quite a while after.
The 2002 Altima seemed to first mark the major decline in quality. There have been some very durable Nissans and Infinitis over the years. Too bad they flushed their reputation fully and completely.
Nissans problem is there cooling is terrible and it cooks the fluid they use fast. Add a aftermarket cooler and change your fluid to Lubegard cvt fluid and change it every 40,000 miles and they will fair much better .2017 Nissan maxima 220,000 miles and was running when I sold the car just fine.I had a large cooler on the front of mine and I also added a magnetic filter inline also . My fluid never got above F 195 ..I don't see how that Transmission lasted I have a extreme lead foot and that v6 puts a ton of power through that belt. When you reverse out of your driveway and change to drive make sure your car is stopped. I did the same thing for years but I stopped when I had that Maxima and I still do it with my Subaru. That can be hard to do when your street is really busy ,and you have to get out and get going fast. Toyota has the best idea though with the real 1st gear to get the car going..
@@thx1138guy Thanks man, I had no idea they use a Chain. I have a Subaru Crosstrek with a chain and I am in the process of adding my cooler and filter and lubegard fluid. I really did rag out that Maxima to no end I hated the car but my dad basically gave it to me. When I first got it it had 90,000 miles and I was told the transmission was going out the belt did slip a few times but once I flushed out the old fluid and put in new with that cooler never the had another issue with it. Jatco still makes terrible Cvt transmission..
So the failure was on the retaining mechanism and piston bearing of the driven gear? I don't think transmission fluid and filter changes would have saved it. Maybe the reason there is damage there is engaging reverse while car is moving forward and the opposite. The car's weight is now on those grooves and balls. The loud bearing of the planetary gear could also indicate this
My 2020 Maxima has 84,000 miles I did the service when the manual recommended it I think everyone should considering Nissan have a transmission issues so far so good
Great video! My 2011 murano 180k with fluid changes done every 30K, I believe, is finally dying. It still runs great but has load buzzing sound. You can hear it under the air box and out the dip stick tube. Unfortunately, the rest of the car is great. But resale value for these even without issues is so poor. Just because of the transmission
If you have a low mileage Nissan CVT transmission, make sure that you change the fluid and put in the Amsoil synthetic CVT fluid. It will help the transmission last longer, that is one of the best CVT transmissions out there. But they have no business being in automobiles
they sell upgrade kits on sonnax, i think. the check balls are a known failure and the pressure regulator gets debris. if you change them keep the valve body so you dont have to do a relearn
Naturally, not all engines and transmissions (gearbox(es) to non-Yanks) are created equal. However, >95% of all catastrophic failures occur due to lubricant/transmission starvation. Without regular fluids change, these components WILL fail, no matter how good they're engineered & built. Period. On motorsports side, Williams did tested CVT on their FW15 (1993) car. However, since automatic gearboxes weren't allowed in F1 it was never raced. FIA: "Listen, sir Frank Williams (especially Adrian Newey & Patrick Head). We know that you're pushing the boundaries of technology. Aside from AT being non-compliant by regulations, your car is already a full nautical mile ahead of all of your competitors in terms of performance..."😅😅😅
My 2017 Maxima has 140k miles. Never, ever had a problem with my transmission. I guess it all depends on how ppl drive. Local mechanics don't really like CVT transmissions because they usually don't require transmission flushes, which, for them, is a good source of work and income. So more than normal that they will say bad things about it. Im not saying that they are perfect but ive had 3 Maximas with CVT and never had any issues at all. My sons 2016 Altima has 130k miles and also no issues with the transmission.
I have a ‘17 Rogue that I’ve had since 70k miles. Now it’s currently 140k miles on the clock. Change the CVT fluid (I use Amsoil CVT Fluid and do spill & fill every 35,000 miles) and you’ll be fine.
Besides the unreliability problems also lack of maintenance makes it worse , black transmission fluid , when was the last time such transmission was serviced ?🙄🤦♂️
So many negative video's on Nissan CVT's. Recently picked up a low mileage NV200 for a van conversion project. Will change CVT fluid every 25K and drive it gently. Castrol makes a quality inexpensive substitute for Nissan's NS 3 fluid that makes changes cheap now. Recently took a long trip and van runs wonderful. Some folks still do get over 200K on these CVT's.
I hate to inform you. But those transmissions are gone. Yes. The old ones were trash. RENAULT. Now they are identical units to any Subaru or Mitsubishi. And all Nissans slush boxes are ZF. SO. The trans issue is solved. They are great cars again. Please don’t hate. I am a long time retired service manager. Just change fluid every 30K. Last the life of vehicle.
I got a 2013 qx56. Went out on me at 150,000.$8,000 😭😭😭😭😭😭you can't even rebuild mine. If I knew what I know now. But damn I love my truck. It's not worth it I swear
It's possible to build a good CVT using epicyclic gears and no rat wheels or rubber bands. Probably doesn't really cost much more to make and if maintained properly should have a much lower total cost of ownership over the life of the vehicle. Me, I've never bought a car with a conventional automatic transmission. Four and five speed manuals only so far in 60 years of car ownership and probably more than a half million miles of driving. Only had to replace two clutches myself due to engine oil contamination or wear and one under warranty due to an improperly manufactured flywheel (GM product). Looking now for a robust 6-speed manual or a well engineered hybrid, if there is one.
Go kart Transmissions do not belong in Cars.......... Direct injection is stupid too ..... along with keyless crap Turbos and superchargers........ less plastic and thicker metal is also needed.
Not to worry. Battery electric vehicles will eventually dominate the market so if you buy a vehicle with an internal combustion engine five years from now you take your chances.