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WHY OPEN BAFFLE RULES - with Clayton Shaw | Spatial Audio 

New Record Day
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2 окт 2024

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Комментарии : 295   
@karlcotleanu4144
@karlcotleanu4144 4 года назад
Man, I only intended to check out the first two or three minutes of this video, but I ended up watching the whole damn thing. Fascinating stuff!! All my OB questions and confusions answered. I have never listened to OB speakers, but I now know why I would absolutely love them. Thank you very much for this amazingly informative Q & A session.
@rotorfix
@rotorfix 4 года назад
One of my best experiences in HiFi was purchasing speakers from Clayton. He's a gentleman and absolute pleasure to do business with. It was evident that he believes in the unparalleled value of his products and is not out to make the quick buck.
@evansstudios
@evansstudios 4 года назад
Agreed. I called him last week to discuss the M3 and X5, to see which would be a better fit and he took the time to answer all my questions and chat about my room, electronics and listening preferences. Can't wait to take delivery of my X5s
@blessonjacob3809
@blessonjacob3809 4 года назад
Jon Evans would you be able to share a summary of the pros and cons of both models? I’m debating between these two models as well.
@evansstudios
@evansstudios 4 года назад
@@blessonjacob3809 Sure, but he does touch on most of it in this video. First a little background; my room is about twice as long as it is wide, and it opens up on the side in the back to another room then on to the kitchen/family room area. It also has a wide opening to a hallway on the same side. The regular listening position is a sofa that's about 8ft from the speakers and right behind the sofa is a large freestanding bookshelf that acts as a room divider. Behind this is my desk and office space, which is where I am most of time while listening. That or I'm wandering around the other rooms and the kitchen. Here are some of the deciding factors that made the X5 the choice over the M3 for me: The powered woofers and better efficiency: I have a couple low power tube amps I like to use, specifically a < 2wpc 45 SET. With the X series, my amps are only driving the mid range and tweeter. The powered woofer on the X5 also plays down lower than the M3, Clayton mentioned he's seen it go down to 20hz depending on the room, which will allow me to get rid of my subs and simplify my setup. The powered subs in the X series also make it a true 3 way design, vs the M which is more of a 2 way speaker. The tweeter: The AMT is more focused and will perform better at longer distances. I'm almost never sitting in the listening position, I'm either at my desk in the back of the room or in an adjacent room. Dynamics: The X series was designed to be more dynamic which will lend itself better to my preferred genres. I got three words for you. Punk. Rock. Metal. Finally aesthetics, and this is just my opinion, but I like the way the ultralam material on the X5 looks, I prefer it to the M series veneers. Note that the photos on his site don't do it any justice, it looks completely different, especially close up. I also prefer the metal supports on the X. All that being said, if I spent most of my time closer, in the listening position, and I was running a higher power amp most of the time, I'd give more consideration to the M3 paired with subs. Hope that helps.
@blessonjacob3809
@blessonjacob3809 4 года назад
Jon Evans really appreciate you taking out time to share!
@evansstudios
@evansstudios 4 года назад
@@blessonjacob3809 Sure man, glad to help. Clayton did another interview posted on the LTA channel where he discusses the differences a bit. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-vYHjNc3kWAQ.html
@nickreecy4229
@nickreecy4229 4 года назад
My search for speaker contentment ended when I picked up my Spatial M4s. Have had them for two years and I haven't desired anything else. Clayton is great as well, always very kind and helpful.
@davidevans1420
@davidevans1420 3 года назад
I have a friend that owns a pair of B&W loudspeakers costing $15,000. Currently he is living in a house and having a house built. I've suggested that he should take advantage of making adjustments during construction that will have positive effects on his final listening experience. I'm not sure it is resonating with him. Of course he doesn't have 15+ years in recording, mastering and acoustics. I told spending a large sum of money on some impressive speakers doesn't guarantee any sound quality in a poorly designed. He might be better off with a pair of Radio Shack Minimus 7's and a subwoofer. In my opinion, people totally misunderstand how important the room acoustics play in the overall objective. I found your video very compelling. Thanks!
@stephenscharf6293
@stephenscharf6293 4 года назад
Great interview with Clayton. I found this interview to be very interesting and informative, thanks so much, Ron!
@512bb
@512bb 4 года назад
Great discussion & I have much respect for Clayton. The room is the biggest & most unfun issue to deal with that most of us never get completely worked out, open baffle deffinatly makes the journey easier. You also make it easy to see why many choose to go the headphone route & completely eliminate the problem all together.
@helgar791
@helgar791 4 года назад
I've owned a pair of Spatial Audio X-2's for two years now for use in my NYC apartment. I can't say enough about their capabilities. Thanks Clayton.
@nicholastolson1699
@nicholastolson1699 4 года назад
Clayton Shaw IN THE HOUSE! Literally! 😄
@vse0
@vse0 4 года назад
My Linkwitz (Rest in peace you GOD you !!) Orions were the best speakers i have ever heard!!!!! we will miss you Sir!
3 года назад
Any idea how they sounded vs today’s open baffles? Perhaps one can still get linkwitz’s made (though not by him obviously)
@linkeddevices
@linkeddevices 4 года назад
I don't know if 99 percent of us could actually place a speaker in its most optimum location. I think most of us would HAVE to place it along a wall with some clearance. it'd be really lavish to be able to have a dedicated room where the speakers are actually like somewhere in the middle of the room.
@tedmanasa907
@tedmanasa907 4 года назад
Eyes opened! Next pair of serious speakers will likely be open baffle, if not Spatial!
@markwinechairman
@markwinechairman 4 года назад
Awesome Interview...So Insightful!!! Love the Sappele look!!! Thank You Ron!!! and Clayton!!!
@aquaescape411
@aquaescape411 3 года назад
This was incredible! Thank you so much for not dumbing it down. Very informative and inspiring
@LevonArakelian
@LevonArakelian 4 года назад
Wow, so much valuable info! Love it. Thanks Ron and Clayton!
@GoggleAX
@GoggleAX 4 года назад
Ron, you are really upping your game with this one, WELL DONE!!! Looking forward to the review video. Bravo sir, bravo.
@dmgmail7021
@dmgmail7021 Год назад
I called Spatial Ausio on some random day and Clayton spent over an hour with me on the phone. We talked about all parts of a system. Infact more about approach and philosophy and my equipment than he even did his speakers. And he was very complimentary towards my speakers and never tried to sell me. I wish the rest of the industry would approach their customers this way. If I ever decide to part with my speakers (which I still truly love) I would definitely consider SA before anything else. I really didn't want to move off my speakers but this design really interests me. And whats really apparent is how these speakers reflect Clayton Shaws musical reproduction philosophy so your not just buying another speaker similar to everything else on the market, your buying into something someone us trying to break thru with something different and revolutionary. Anyways that's how I felt after our conversation.
@chrispicquet733
@chrispicquet733 2 года назад
Cool! Most Audiophiles snub their nose at Pro Audio! I used to be a soundman for a few bands,learned much about room reflections! The main reason that the Audiophile sound took off,was the introduction of AR 3a's,KLH's,and similar Sealed Box designs! The Early Large Horn Designs we're much closer to open baffle designs! I Hate to say this Ladies,but the Wife Factor has set back Audio for 40 yrs! Women don't like giant speakers in their homes,it degenerated with the popularity of the little Bose cubes,and now,guys are lucky to have a sound bar, and sub! I have Many Pro Drivers( JBL,EV,Atlas,etc...) That I use for new designs.I agree With your Concepts.
@tggonzales7971
@tggonzales7971 4 года назад
Ask Clayton when he’s going to put more pictures of the wood finishes available for the Sapphire on the website. Would be good to see the options
@ABC-rh7zc
@ABC-rh7zc 4 года назад
Never heard his speakers or even heard of the brand so it was fun to learn about a new company and its products
@LAKXx
@LAKXx 7 месяцев назад
Truth be told, i'm one of those that just likes doing things different but i soon realized OB is not just a gimmick and actually sounds amazing. Still i couldn't help myself and strayed of the path once more so now when people enter my room i go like ; _Oh that? are just my one of a kind open baffle panels with decoupled drivers in a clamshell push pull configuration. Its no big deal lets move on_ But forreal, in the end it was not the need to be different but experimenting that has lead me to this setup and honestly, i tried alot of weird shenanigans but this config was to good not to keep using. They hang in the middle of my room and sound amazing from both sides, well if you forget the tweeters at least that is.
@jeffsloane8628
@jeffsloane8628 4 года назад
Clayton is a class act individual who lets his research and products speak for them selves. When there is less BS, there is less to have to dance around. I watched the whole video and he was seated the whole time. :-) Can't wait to hear a set of Spatial speakers. Thanks for another good one Ron.
@Newrecordday2013
@Newrecordday2013 4 года назад
I agree with every word you just said.
@StewartMarkley
@StewartMarkley 4 года назад
Open baffle speakers don't cure room issues but do offer some additional options to room treatments and positioning. The main advantage with open baffles I think is that they are better with transient sounds than sealed or even more so ported speakers as there is less stored energy involved to start and stop because there is no trapped air that has resonances with reactances that can smear the transients. This is also why horns and planar speakers have advantages over the common box speaker because they can react quicker to music transients. The best transient performing speakers today are planar magnetic open baffle designs.
@dmptcb
@dmptcb 2 года назад
U are definitely correct I have box speakers and my magnepan 2.7 have stole the show nothing better in my opinion and I have them in a large room I just pull them out 3 feet from the back wall when I want to use them the only issue with magnepan is u need huge power to drive them better happy listening!
@lucacorso_audiosystem
@lucacorso_audiosystem 3 года назад
The dipole question could be deeper. Is it okay to add 50% “reverb” sound in the room when the correct amount of reverb is already present in the recording? 🤔 Then how does such a system behave towards "fire", that is, the system's ability to correctly position the virtual sources in the environment? 🤔
@johnanderson8096
@johnanderson8096 4 года назад
Great interview... would be super interested in his speakers if they were more affordable... I say this cause as recently as 2016/17 maybe 18, Clayton had the M4 at $1600-2000+ and I think there was an M3 Turbo version that I think may have been as low as $2000...Today the upgraded version starts at $4950. Hey your good and successful, you should get paid... I hope this virus goes away sooner than later.... but, in the meantime, maybe with discretional spending plunging, hopefully Clayton will bring the highly reviewed M4 back, and open his product to a much bigger audience... not only to people who can spend $3500 - $27,000... Regardless, obviously his success is deserving!!! Footnote... emailed Clayton to see in fact if M4's had been discontinued... He was nice enough to email back(Props)... and said they had been discontinued last year...Lowest entry level now $3450(M5's)... going in the wrong direction for sure!!! by 100%+ in a short time... discretionary spending is in a free fall at the moment, and there's no sight of the bottom... maybe that will encourage Clayton to bring back his highly regarded, and affordable M4's... Hope so... onto another Utah speaker maker for my next pair... Tekton Electron...$2250... pushing the limit, but will order this week... Cant wait!!!
@ABC-rh7zc
@ABC-rh7zc 4 года назад
have you considered a DIY option?
@fishingbear69
@fishingbear69 4 года назад
Thats one beautiful and informative interview..I'll be keeping an eye out on those M5
@terrysetter817
@terrysetter817 4 года назад
Is your review of the M3 Sapphires using all the mentioned electronics and rock/pop music posted yet? I can't find it. Thanks in advance.
@porkchopspapi5757
@porkchopspapi5757 4 года назад
Once I heard an open baffle, most box speakers sounded like music coming out of a box.
@Justwantahover
@Justwantahover Год назад
I like single driver and coaxials and I build speakers with the driver mounted above the speaker hole (like one inch above). And the hole is bass vent treated (with a short wide tube). The driver is spaced from the hole by extension screws and thin plastic hose as the spacers. Easy and it beats any "normal" speaker hands down. They absolutely smoke my B&W 706s and they cost AU $2,400. And (as you said) there's no going back.
@porkchopspapi5757
@porkchopspapi5757 Год назад
@@Justwantahover you mean the driver is mounted out from the hole right?
@mkshffr4936
@mkshffr4936 9 месяцев назад
Interesting approach.​@@Justwantahover
@carlmarchetto1786
@carlmarchetto1786 3 дня назад
I enjoyed your video and rationale. Like you I replaced my coaxial tweeter ( Emerald Physics) with Radion Engineering 5212 with an Air Motion Tweeter Mundorf AMT 25D6.1-R which is a dipole like your tweeters
@janipihlaja7884
@janipihlaja7884 4 месяца назад
Great video... Yes thats that , The elephant is the Room :) the biggest thing when choosing speakers.If baffels don't fit on your room, You can also try speakers that have DSP and room calibration , and of course you can do acoustic treatment to get even better.
@andreimj
@andreimj Год назад
You provided so much information that this is like a seminar. I am learning so much amazing information that I had watched the video at least 4 times. And counting :))))
@bujoun76
@bujoun76 4 года назад
Thanks Ron! You gave "the man" himself my question. I don't blame you for skipping over my handle...
@carlos2bass
@carlos2bass 4 года назад
Great that Spatial audio is doing a great job promoting and making open baffle speakers right now; we also need to recognize the recently descease Jorma Salmi of Gradient speakers in Finland who introduced open baffle in the early 90,s.His sub system for the Quads and his Gradient Revolution are classic models that were highly recognized 30 years ago.
@polylight
@polylight 2 года назад
Wish you guys success. I was so lucky to attend a Linkwitz open house demo a couple years before he passed away. Since I was already a woodworker, a pair of LX-531's was easy for me to make, but I never would have dropped that money on the raw materials and electronics had I not heard them first. So happy now...I had spent 2+ decades in frustration in never having enough money to afford a pair of B&W's I wanted (especially with them doubling the prices every 5-10 years). Now I don't care what B&W or the other big boys make, the dipoles truly have satisfied me for life.
@jorgebacani1901
@jorgebacani1901 Год назад
i also built the LX521. there’s no way i’m going back to boxed speakers.
@joelazenby9303
@joelazenby9303 2 года назад
Curiously watched/listened to this one. Called to speak to Clayton and got Cloud instead. Still great info and ended by putting deposit onX5! Now in the, not too happy, waiting mode. Can't wait!
@HD-su9sq
@HD-su9sq 4 года назад
Good video! I delayed because its long, but watching was time well spent. Thanks for answering all those questions.
@MichaelLivingston-me
@MichaelLivingston-me 4 года назад
There's something about this business, call it audiophilia that's elusive, and very few times are there products that are overwhelmingly better than their peers at a specific price point. For example, when I look back at some of those things that made the market, I think it's because the audio market was just coming into its own. The AR 3's took the audio market and shook it up. Before that time, if you wanted deep bass, relatively speaking, you might have Bozaks or Klipsch corner horns. Early designers insisted that in order to build a decent sounding speaker you must start with nothing less than a 15 inch woofer. Forget about 8 or 10 inch. Henry Kloss went on to another bread and butter winner, the Advent speaker. Once again flying in the face of conventional wisdom. All that to build up to this point of admitting my own lack of experience (even though I've been involved since the 60's). I have yet to hear an open baffle cone or dome speaker which gave me a sensational sounding reproduction. I've been hugely impressed with large electrostatics from Martin Logan, or the Magnepan flat panel. Nonetheless, they needed augmented bass typically from a subwoofer in cabinet. Now the two of you come along and say, you can get fast deep bass, and tremendous clarity from an open baffle design? It sounds like heresy, but I just have to accept the fact I haven't heard the speakers you have. Maybe someday... Anyway, I find this video very interesting. Thanks for posting.
@russmaleartist
@russmaleartist 4 года назад
I have modified Dahlquist DQ10s, which are a combination of open baffles and closed boxes for the bass and the subwoofers. These speakers have the foundation of greatness . . . they just need to be updated with careful consideration and care.
@anjin_x
@anjin_x 4 года назад
Carl Marchisotto (NOLA Speakers) did go on to improve on his old DQ10 type design.
@ReflectedMiles
@ReflectedMiles 4 года назад
Clayton is right that OB is old technology--60+ years--and it seems to cycle in popularity out on the fringe and in the DIY community, but never comes to much because it always loses when serious and practical engineering has to dominate (i.e., in pro). Otherwise, OB would have been the designs that most pros, semi-pros (bands/venues/home studios), and maybe even consumers wanted and were most manufactured, let alone being a "legitimate alternative," but they have significant time-alignment problems even short of self-cancellation issues at lower frequencies in the room, not just along the sides to create the dipole, and that is where the genius of the Dahlquist concept comes in--you're exactly right. OB needs users with an unchanging room of sufficient size and with acoustic expertise and pro measuring tools to set them as correctly as possible. Controlled directivity has never been enough to deal with that at lower frequencies. It was possible with Dahlquist to secure nearly all of the advantages of OB while boxing in the worst of the problems at a fraction of this price. Their "bass trap" was consistent and moved whenever and wherever the speakers did and without the free-air resonance behavior that wasn't mentioned, either.
@buttonman1831
@buttonman1831 4 года назад
This is why I switched to good bookshelf speakers, much easier to control in a room. With the right amp, small speakers can have great dynamics and scale.
@Canadian_Eh_I
@Canadian_Eh_I 4 года назад
impossible to get great bass with a small speaker IMO. its physics
@aceofspades6667
@aceofspades6667 2 года назад
@@Canadian_Eh_I 2 bookies + 1 sub in a small room is a great solution. Rel and Rythmik make some great products.
@Canadian_Eh_I
@Canadian_Eh_I 2 года назад
@@aceofspades6667 Yeah thats the direction Im going too. I have bookshelves plus dual subs
@Nihil1st1347
@Nihil1st1347 4 года назад
Long ago I had me build an open baffle sub using 2 opposing 12" Audax chassis on the proposal of Sigfried Linkwitz to support my electrostatic LS. The sub was driven by an old Technics amp and separated by an active x-over at 12 dB, 120 Hz. They used to play fine. Only after a while the electrostatics wore out and I had to repair them. Becoming part of the DIY community was overwhelming. I got very friendly help cutting out the round holes.
@shadyoptics
@shadyoptics 4 года назад
Nice job guys, appreciate the info...look forward to the review.
@joebandy6505
@joebandy6505 4 года назад
When you do the review, please compare it to Magnepans. Thanks for all the great work!
@sudd3660
@sudd3660 4 года назад
Great looking speaker the M3 Sapphire :) hope the fabric comes off easily. The spatialaudio site really should get a better 3d modeler for the cgi, i use blender as a hobbyist modeling hifi gear and it really should realistic than that. excited for the upcoming review and this was a nice video and great topic.
@timo5601
@timo5601 4 года назад
Great seminar! Very informative! Thank you!
@cybernaab
@cybernaab 2 года назад
I know this isnt hifi, but i can recommend using decent quality free air car speakers such as a 6x9 size since they go below 50hz or 6.5 inch for midbass/fullrange 60hz and a subwoofer to build a simple super cheap open baffle system, ive been doing it now and i really enjoy the sound quality Since most car full range speakers are made to be used free air, they are perfect for open baffle. Ive even replaced the satelites on cheap logitech 2.1 systems with small 3/4/6 inch pioneer/jbl/kenwood fullrange freeair speakers in selfmade open baffle planks with very short wings. The sound quality difference is amazing, even for such cheap low class speakers it's a big change, so big even that i dont want to go back to normal ported or closed speaker boxes. As said in the video, the bass becomes less boomy, so if you like to watch movies with the open baffle car speakers i suggested i only recommend using the open baffle speakers for midbass midrange highs, and a boxed subwoofer for the lows to keep it cheap and simple
@isaacsykes3
@isaacsykes3 4 года назад
First, I just want to say thank you for reading my question, I was stoked, then sadden, then stoked again. Clayton needs to be in home-theater, as well as the two channel space, although I think I may have a temporary solution that you can run by him...Three M3 Sapphires and an acoustically transparent screen, plus whatever subs he produces. Until then. push him on the open baffle center channel, or even open baffle bookshelves. That said I can not wait for the review, and thank you to you and your family for hosting this brilliant individual.
@ABC-rh7zc
@ABC-rh7zc 4 года назад
A really good 2-channel system should have excellent center imaging. There's no real need for a center channel.
@AviewFromUnder
@AviewFromUnder 2 года назад
As a fella that has spent best part of 40 years putting large format sound systems in venues of all sizes. I share the same truth as this man. Direct to reflected ratios and system directivity is 90% of the pie chart of what matters! The largest flaw with the a speaker system large or small is directivity. Any loudspeaker you hear while in a lawn chair will have a good chance of being on a list of the best you will ever hear! Are you are sitting in your sheet rock den with your hifi, thinking you need some thousand dollar oxygen free RCA patch? Yes well its time for a new hobby because you don't get it and cant hear! All that said get some nice headphones perhaps 3 pairs problem solved!
@mikefreer9409
@mikefreer9409 4 года назад
Clayton Shaw-Legend!
@kenwebster5053
@kenwebster5053 3 года назад
Interesting, I am very familiar with side dispersion issues from my PA experience. This is particularly a problem with stage wedges that use horn mounted tweeters. We had a corner stage (yeah bad) but the issue was that the horns gave a narrow projection from the tweeters but the bass drivers were very wide. The performers were basically on axis so if their spectrum was balanced for them, the off axis spectrum was mostly just bass. The off axis bass bounced off the floor, ceiling and walls, around the corner and then out into the audience area where it polluted the house with excessive muddy out of phase bass. The venue (church) had zero acoustic treatment of course. The house speakers themselves had very clear, precise, balanced spectrum true sound reinforcement(exceptional for a church after installing half decent cables and applying EQ). This meant that anytime the stage monitors were run to sufficient level to be useful to the performers, they polluted the house sound badly. So my options were to either run the monitors too low to be useful, or EQ them to meld nicely with the house sound. The 2nd option meant they could be run at useful levels without polluting the house sound but for the performers, they sounded tinny and metalic. At the end of the day, the house is the customer for both the performers and the sound team. I wanted to deploy acoustic treatment around the stage &/or move it out of the corner but that got no traction. From this perspective I get the great significance of sound cancellation around the edges of open baffle speakers and the fact they produce dipole lobes. My question though is what do you do about the adverse effects of the inverted lobe reflecting off the front wall? That would be just as much energy as the in phase direct lobe that is the only one you want to hear. Surely this question is the real elephant in the room with open baffle speakers!
@whitschuyler5679
@whitschuyler5679 4 месяца назад
D
@duythai5442
@duythai5442 3 года назад
Problem one is room. Problem two is room. Clayton knows his stuff. Thank you for the interview.
@jinglechen641
@jinglechen641 2 года назад
I think this video is still very very helpful for people who are not into ob speakers
@chrispicquet733
@chrispicquet733 2 года назад
Also, it's one of the reasons I have always liked Planar Speakers(Apogee's Sound Labs,Acoustat's)
@mfkhometheater7742
@mfkhometheater7742 3 года назад
What are Clayton's thoughts on Keele's CBT technology for constant directivity? I've been building open baffle since the mid 1990's and in 2009 I combined CBT with open baffle for the center speaker in my home theater. The combination of open baffle and CBT worked great and I will be using it again in my new theater. The new center will be a horizontal open baffle full CBT similar to the 2009 version and the left/right mains will be open baffle ground plain CBT's.
@TheKorabkoff
@TheKorabkoff 4 года назад
Great cons and pros in acoustic design! Thanks a lot!
@andrewgillis8572
@andrewgillis8572 4 года назад
open baffle speeds the placement process - great point - and makes your room the speaker cabinet, makes sense you could find a sweet spot inside an AR5 or a large Advent - mind you, you'd be tiny & be breathing fibreglass
@brianrichardson5869
@brianrichardson5869 3 года назад
icant believe the sound from the open baffle speakers. im just curious if they have thought about making speakers for theater. i would love to see this happen if its possible
@rotecrl9719
@rotecrl9719 3 года назад
Clayton's voice sounds awesome.
@haberdasherrykr8886
@haberdasherrykr8886 2 года назад
What a cool dude, thank you both for teaching sir(s)
@WigandKleine
@WigandKleine 4 года назад
Btw could you do a review on the X-Statik? That would be awesome
@davidtaylor9593
@davidtaylor9593 2 года назад
I lovedvthe SD Acoustics OBS3 in 19787. A ribbon tweeter and an open dipiloar midrange, with a ported bass box withe fhe the same 6" bass driver
@512bb
@512bb 4 года назад
I know Clayton has been around a long time as I actually had both the Magneplaner Tympani IVa & the Dayton Wright XG8 at one time. I can tell you I was driving them with a pair of Mark Levinson No 20s, 100watt class A monos & they were stunning. .
@infn
@infn 4 года назад
Just out of curiousity, did you let go of them willingly? Or did they just live a long life until one day they didn't sound as good anymore?
@512bb
@512bb 4 года назад
@@infn I did sell them willingly but even considering all the things I've owned that is one that would still be in my collection if I had it to do over again.
@svtcontour
@svtcontour 3 года назад
I love my open baffles but while interaction with the room may be less in some ways, placement of open baffles are still more difficult IMO and also it needs quite a bit more distance behind it because you want the rear reflection to be delayed quite a bit. So I'd say open baffle are ideal for large rooms
@overbuiltautomotive1299
@overbuiltautomotive1299 2 года назад
i still think audio files can think to much .i used to think i was one but a old set of sansui is all i ever liked sp1500 units and sp2500 i am happy as a lark but that stuff and bad but i priced some usa made stuff its like race engine building so uh nope i am not that guy ill wast to much on turbos lol
@barryhallsack8852
@barryhallsack8852 2 года назад
Ron's a hype guy for rap video yeah yeah oh yeah! Just messing around thanks for sharing the video very informative!
@iTrove
@iTrove 4 года назад
Would love to hear those being driven by the Schiit stack. My mind is whirling on how to get a $5k tube amp if the stack isn’t going to cut it and convince my wife that I haven’t lost my mind.
@keithmoriyama5421
@keithmoriyama5421 11 месяцев назад
I wish I could hear a properly setup OB system. I've heard a few at audio shows and they sounded like crap. I realized that this design couldn't possibly sound so bad, but at the same time the 'showroom' demo in a hotel room is not an excuse. One characteristic that showed was a 'squawking' tonality coming from the bass unit with very little bass and no body. Hopefully I will one day get to hear a properly setup OB system.
@martinjandijkstra3205
@martinjandijkstra3205 6 месяцев назад
I have dipole electrostatic speakers. I wouldnt say that dipole speakers are suited for small rooms. You need space behind the speaker to allow for deep bass. Best bass was when I had 2,5 to 3 meter behind. When putting closer to the wall I will loose bass. I can solve that with a subwoofer. So the performance highly depends on placement.
@royrosvold5305
@royrosvold5305 2 года назад
It's like you are making fun of everyone who don't like or haven't heard Open Baffle with your smug laughter and smart coments..? But maybe you can come down from your pidestall and explain how this is so good in small rooms when you must pull them 6 feet or more into the room for best performance???? Doesn't sound like suitable for SMALL rooms to me...
@treyhorn5645
@treyhorn5645 4 года назад
That was great !... Thanks guy's... Theory spot on... I'm definitely a subscriber to open baffle as to considerably overcome room dynamic situations... 👍
@davebutler3905
@davebutler3905 4 месяца назад
Don't you u still have a reflection bouncing off the wall behind the speaker? Room resonances are still going to be an issue... Standing waves dictated by the room's dimensions.
@geickmei
@geickmei 5 месяцев назад
I watched this whole video to see if you understood what causes the sound of open baffle speakers and didn't hear it. You didn't say a word about the direct and reflected sound in the room. It is the reflected that gives the depth and spaciousness and speaker disappearing that is so prized in audio circles. You need to address the positioning of the early reflected sound as you move speakers around. You can visualize this by making a drawing of the image model of the speakers in the room - draw the early reflections as additional virtual images on the other side of the walls, like mirror images of the speakers. Simultaneous benefit of reflected sound is power response. Image Model Theory enables you to draw a picture of the sound in the room.
@AmazonasBiotop
@AmazonasBiotop 4 года назад
Super good interview! I like the technical discussion that gives some insight into how OB works. And my next type of speakers will be OB for sure. (I have no problems with 3 feets from the front wall, actually yesterday I moved my speakers 1½ feet closer to the front wall so I am now little bit further away than 3 feets currently.. .. dedicated listening room.)
@Dreez76
@Dreez76 3 года назад
I'm planning on building my own speakers as my next pair, and i was planning on the usual floorspeakers ported box. But all the information i've seen lately points towards open baffle designs are better, but how much are they affected by room?, and what type of specs on the elements are important . I *was* going to buy the GR X-static speakers but... the shippingcost would be more than the speakers.
@listeningto8371
@listeningto8371 3 года назад
Please ckeck out SL designs. LX521 and LX mini. I've got both and they're amazing
@snowpuppy77
@snowpuppy77 4 года назад
Snowpuppy approved! I enjoyed every minute of that. I am very proud to own one of Clayton's designs. By the way I have one of the early pairs of M3S and I have played them very loud a lot and sometimes louder than I can stand and have had no issues. If someone had issues then either their tweeters were defective, amp was clipping, or they will be deaf soon. That said nice to know the newer model has some more insurance for protection. The Sapphire series is furniture grade. They are beautiful. You will want to pull them out at least 3 ft from the front wall for great sound and because the back side of the speaker is also beautiful.
@christopheremerson2892
@christopheremerson2892 2 месяца назад
So essentially, you remove the box and turn the whole room into a box with all speakers in that single box. You could open a window for a bass port.
@markwagner1997
@markwagner1997 4 года назад
I can't believe I watched tha whole thing! GREAT interview and dive into the Spatial speakers. Thanks Ron and Clayton!
@tee-jaythestereo-bargainph2120
@tee-jaythestereo-bargainph2120 4 года назад
Nice Job !! 😆
@jackfros-e3s
@jackfros-e3s 9 месяцев назад
Its always the same. You can talk about something till the cows come home: 10 minutes in a listening room , and I will know whether open baffle is a revelation , or not.
@danielgallegos1528
@danielgallegos1528 7 месяцев назад
Blah, blah, fatiguing. How do they bump? Why do they bump better like this?! Geez.
@gges1605
@gges1605 8 месяцев назад
I would love to know what the difference is between a woofer designed for open baffle and an ordinary woofer is. Is the coil different are the magnets stronger is the cage stronger or designed differently for someone that wants to mess about building a set where would they get woofers designed for open baffle. .
@roberthart9886
@roberthart9886 2 года назад
This video popped up this morning. I have owned Accoustat 2+ 2s, Maggie 3.4s, Emerald Physics KCIIs and now EP 3.4s. I have also owned a fair amount of monkey coffins. For me, open baffle is much purer and faster. I think not having the XOs inside a box is a big help
@christhorney
@christhorney 7 месяцев назад
to me, having a port is like adding another woofer thats crossed over where your actual woofer cant really play to, and i think its application specific
@dinsy512
@dinsy512 4 года назад
Excellent discussion, love it!
@royhuijsmans6117
@royhuijsmans6117 21 день назад
Nice video guys! ...Or inwall mounted bassspeakers...
@markrigg6623
@markrigg6623 3 года назад
How these types of speakers get enough bass has me completely baffled.
@Newrecordday2013
@Newrecordday2013 3 года назад
Haha I see what you did there
@dieselphiend
@dieselphiend Год назад
I have the most insulated bedroom on da erf. I'd cover my walls in clothing from the goodwill if I had to.
@Justwantahover
@Justwantahover Год назад
I have built semi open driver speakers. Half way in the box and half way out of the box. With a bass tube treated speaker hole, these speakers have the warm box sound combined with the cold open cone sound (tweakable). More spacial sound and more control and extended highs on single driver speakers. I also do it with coaxials.
@peteg6118
@peteg6118 4 года назад
I've got the M3 Turbo S speakers. Tremendous wall of sound. I have them backed up by a pair of REL S3 sub-woofers. My cousin came over to listen. I walked away and when I came back he was searching around my HiFi rack which is centered between the Spatials. He said he was looking for a center channel speaker. The sound stage is incredible. Wondering if the Sapphires are a worthy upgrade.
@Newrecordday2013
@Newrecordday2013 4 года назад
Well I’m super familiar with the original M3 and these are on another level comparatively.
@peteg6118
@peteg6118 4 года назад
@@Newrecordday2013 Thanks Ron.
@luke9822
@luke9822 4 года назад
13:50 even though they were presented differently (one as a negative and the other a positive) it seems like you are saying that for both open baffle and box speakers, moving the speaker in the room is necessary to achieve the best sound. Is that not the case, or are open baffle forgiving and can be closer to a back wall? I'm not sure if there are similar aspects to something like a Magnepan quasi-ribbon style speaker, but it is my understanding that need *a lot* of room and are temperamental that way.
@JerryRutten
@JerryRutten 4 года назад
An open baffle needs more room behind the speaker, a box speaker needs more room to the sides of the speaker. So, when closer to the side wall, a box speaker needs more toe-in. When closer to the front wall the open baffle needs more toe-in.
@luke9822
@luke9822 4 года назад
@@JerryRutten thank you. Having my speaker wall in line with my entry door path presents a real challenge for good performances from speakers while not putting the speakers in the walk path. I'll be fairly close to the back wall. I would say no more than 1 ft or so.
@blejzerosamigos6115
@blejzerosamigos6115 4 года назад
Just one question, Tektons impact double impact or these?
@Newrecordday2013
@Newrecordday2013 4 года назад
I haven’t heard the double impacts but have spent time with the Impacts. Those were a good sounding speaker at the asking price but aren’t on the same level as these in my opinion. Thanks!
@blejzerosamigos6115
@blejzerosamigos6115 4 года назад
@@Newrecordday2013 thank you for the fast reply
@ABC-rh7zc
@ABC-rh7zc 4 года назад
these :)
@davidtaylor9593
@davidtaylor9593 2 года назад
i would like to adk. what is the daddy?.Tad comprssion vs old tubes
@bootsarmstrong8421
@bootsarmstrong8421 4 года назад
Hey Ron, you got some nice album covers on your back wall. You could make it super great by adding Carly Simon's "Playing Possum" album cover. It's a classic.
@davidtaylor9593
@davidtaylor9593 2 года назад
I would like to hear from Steen Dossing. He will teach you
@Coneman3
@Coneman3 10 месяцев назад
So why are most speakers not open baffle? Serious question, and I’m fully aware that conventional ways are often not the best. But it needs explaining why convention is wrong in this case.
@mkshffr4936
@mkshffr4936 9 месяцев назад
They tend to be large and somewhat difficult to ship. They also have some lifestyle unfriendly positioning requirements to be at their best.
@jkreviea
@jkreviea 2 года назад
@ the 16-minute mark, I looked up these speakers...@ the 17-minute mark I stopped watching. Over $4,000 for speakers?
@mkshffr4936
@mkshffr4936 9 месяцев назад
Build your own.
@ze_german2921
@ze_german2921 4 года назад
Can this style of speakers play heavy metal and hip hop as well as it can Jazz? I'm assuming it would be best to add a sealed sub for different genre?
@ABC-rh7zc
@ABC-rh7zc 4 года назад
Room correction has a fundamental flaw - you can't fix a room null with amplitude.
@Newrecordday2013
@Newrecordday2013 4 года назад
I agree. It can be useful for taming some peaks but you are right, nulls are a problem that no room correction software can really "fix" without consequences.
@Canadian_Eh_I
@Canadian_Eh_I 4 года назад
very true, sounds like you understand audio :) IMO its all about custom tailoring the crossovers to your space. I use 2 15" OB woofers and cross themover at different frequencies and I get amazing bass with less suckouts and boominess. OB bass rocks!
@JerryRutten
@JerryRutten 4 года назад
@@Newrecordday2013 Actually, you can. It only requires some INSIDE the box thinking! Try this... Shove you (sub) woofer into a corner. Preferably a corner with the longest diagonal, preferably a closed system and preferably with the cone directed into the corner! No nulls left! And no side wall reflections. You create a "system" with a horn blowing into a transmission line (your room). And as with a transmission line you need some damping... No nulls left. Only peaks, which can be eliminated. With DSP you create a very efficient bass system. So, with the use of DSP, you can eliminate nulls.
@ABC-rh7zc
@ABC-rh7zc 4 года назад
@@JerryRutten I agree that corner placement effectively reduces the number of boundaries (which is why I would also place a sub in a corner and EQ it) but there are still boundaries which means there can still be nulls and these can't be fixed with EQ
@brenthawkins204
@brenthawkins204 Год назад
So about those 15" woofer specs. What is the Qts and xmax
@WigandKleine
@WigandKleine 4 года назад
Hey Ron The First Video of yours I wached was the Yamaha A-S2100 Review. That got. meine into HiFi. Do you still think of That amp so Highly in todays market? There pretty good used deals for about 1k for theses. Really interested in your take on that. Cheers from Germany :)
@Newrecordday2013
@Newrecordday2013 4 года назад
Yes I do! The 2100 is a no joke amp and I love it to this day!
@WigandKleine
@WigandKleine 4 года назад
New Record Day thanks; planning to pair it with the xstatik
@dakken74
@dakken74 4 года назад
@@Newrecordday2013 hey Ron, a few episodes ago you did a few teardown videos showing the insides of some speakers. I was wondering if you might do some measurements with the internal foam removed and then comparing it to the original measurements?
@elongatuspiranha
@elongatuspiranha 4 года назад
I have never heard an open baffled speaker yet. Hope to someday though. I still have my doubts, because some of the best speakers in the world are boxed...and my current boxed speakers sounds amazing.
@Diatonic5th
@Diatonic5th 4 года назад
Very informative video! I'm considering pulling the trigger on a pair of Sapphire M5's next week, but I'm concerned about running them with my Cambridge CXA80 in a smallish room (11'x15'). Do you think this combo would overpower my room? I'll eventually upgrade to a lower wattage tube amp, but that won't be for another year or so.
@Newrecordday2013
@Newrecordday2013 4 года назад
I think you would be just fine honestly!
@Diatonic5th
@Diatonic5th 4 года назад
@@Newrecordday2013 Thanks!
@aceofspades6667
@aceofspades6667 2 года назад
Clayton has come out with M4 and M6 that should also help with smaller rooms. I know this is a year old post but thought I'd put that out there.
@joemartin6439
@joemartin6439 3 года назад
Hi guys , 73 years old now, not a big music room, Casta B Horn Speakers, Audio Space 3i integrated tube amp, no boom or muddy sound, bass is there if in music, dynamics are all I have, very smooth balance neutral natural sound, learned all about resistance, capacitance, room has very little standing wave, diy cables , interconnects speaker cables, power cords, multiple purpose room, have huge space, 17’ room in dinning room where speaker faces, many say I have great sound, no perfect, but very involving music, no baffle speakers no room behind them, Casta‘S 2.5’ from wall, toed in 45 degrees, get floor to ceiling sound.
@infn
@infn 4 года назад
This was a very interesting session Ron. Looking forward to see even more industry designers on the channel, when you can get them. And my questions got picked, thanks for that! I enjoyed watching Clayton squirm just a little bit :p. He's a cool guy.
@Newrecordday2013
@Newrecordday2013 4 года назад
I agree, he really is a cool guy!
@StewartMarkley
@StewartMarkley 4 года назад
He certainly is a cool guy, he even called me to discuss a question I sent you that he talked about on your video.
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