Why Paul Krugman is wrong: Austrian Economics vs Keynesian Economics | Saifedean Ammous 

THANK YOU for this priceless wisdom.

Electrones are a part of what creates feelings.....and we have noe clue as to how. If we had, we could have created a robot able to laugh when told a new joke.

Yeah, that's why you need probability distribution to find their position, like a husband trying to know his wife's feelings

This quote deserves 10k likes

Lex responding with, "I don't know that anything that involves human nature deserves this level of certainty" is likely the most astute way to approach economic theories. I'm sure he would enjoy a conversation with Dan Ariely.

@C. V. EClass how do you know?

@C. V. EClassyes, exactly. how do you know?

Same from Zimbabwe.

Milei 2023

Oof doble wammi. Suerte ahi en argentina, tuve la suerte que mi padre se mudo de Buenos Aires a los eeuu

There is no cooperation without coercion. Grow up.

@@AndrewPasq What? Of course there is. I buy a pizza and eat, the shop sells a pizza and makes profit. What do you call that?

@@juliantheapostate8295 Commys can't understand free exchange 🤣 or people who willfully produce.

@@AndrewPasq LOL that is the dumbest thing I have heard/read in quite a while.

@@AndrewPasq Uncle Joe couldn't have said it better.

It reminds me a lot of John Stossel back in his heyday. He had that way of asking guests questions. I think Lex has definitely taken it a step up.

Except that he makes me soporific

yes, but he is sooo wrong too often like here.

It’s a shame he never really gets this guy to defend his position other than what boils down to something like “all government is bad because tax is theft”

@@simperingham the guy defended it quite well and illustrated how printing up money based on nothing and depending on inflation is the cause of the problems.

They can mismanage all they want and then print money to patch up the mistakes they made and in order to enhance their re-election. That’s the incentive in a nutshell.

So what socialism?

Yh it’s the problem of self sustaining government agencies, rational agents will always find justification to continue their employment (since the skills aren’t very transferable), even if there is no demand for their role

Yet another clown that has zero idea about economics. Where do you people come from? You do know that Adam Smith has an entire chapter on the need to regulate business and that he uses the "invisible hand" phrase once in his 800 page Wealth of Nations and used it as something to be avoided, correct? Of course you don't. Bet you feel pretty stupid right about now...lol

@@alfredjovanovic2106 It is the problem of business needed to be bailed out by tax payer money, seeking rents from governments, and killng competitation. Bet you feel pretty stupid right about now...

Austrian economists seem to overlook the power fake money has had to create real goods - this means people everywhere have been able to acquire physical assets, which will persist regardless of inflation's effects. Prior to fake money, people had a lot less access to goods and services. It's no coincidence that post-Keynes there has been an economic explosion. I say this as someone who thinks the Fed is destroying the country...

The economists do advocate for it during good times. Politicians are unwilling to put the brakes on a good economy.

Yeah because people like their Social Security/Medicaid, and they also like their tax cuts

Von Mises Austrian Economics all the way.

"Inflation and Credit expansion, the preferred method of government open handedness, Do not add to the amount of resources available, they simply make some more prosperous, but only to the extent that they make others poorer" -Ludwig Von Mises "We can guarantee cash benefits as far out and at whatever size you like, but we cannot guarantee their purchasing power" -Alan Greenspan

I think it's dumb to say that letting arbitrary entities literally counterfeit money is anything but a crime, still. Seems pretty easy and straightforward to me

We are basically a beautiful mess!

So you are saying that when the fed raised interest rates, the economy did not slow and inflation did not come down. You are drinking the Austrian cool aid.

​@@rlkinnardif you notice a sign of good direction when they reveresed coyrse on their policies, imagine what would have happened if they would have left the interest rates to be dictated by the market and never have messeed with them in the first place. 🤔 I would encurage you to read Hazlitt's Economics in One Lesson to understand a bit the part of the economy we never see because it's not left alone to happen as it should.

@@mariusceterchi5269 The Fed produces the quantity of money in conjunction with the banks; the market produces the interest rates. Something has to produce the quantity of money. China is allowing excessive savings which produces the economy of thrift. Watch and see that Hazlitt is wrong as this can happen. Sometimes an economy can go off the rails for a long time, and Xi seems to have a Austrian bias.

@@mariusceterchi5269 Oh, by stimulating the economy the US economy produced 14 million jobs under biden. How many jobs would have been produced without stimulus? And how do you know that?

​@@rlkinnardYeah you really suffer from a major lack of understanding in economics. The government cannot "create jobs". Any money spent on the government comes from the taxpayers pocket. Loans are just pushing the taxes to a later date. Printing more money results in inflation which is the worst taxation of them all. The government cannot "create" jobs. They can only move them from the profitable private sector to the unprofitable government sector. You have not stopped to think how many jobs would have been created had the average American not suffered the brutal and vicious effects of inflation. As the previous comments said, you need to read "Economics In One Lesson". If you have read it, read it again.

@@ericpeters0n can you be more precise with the question?

Very good observation, it is the same in big R&D companies e.g. pharma. Very few people are actually crucial but you have hundreds of department that exists mostly due to regulatory pressure and their contribution is extremely hard to calculate.

@@ericpeters0n "Trickle down economics" is a pejorative term used by dishonest people. It's not a real thing.

The problem with modern economies is that is has ZERO empirical support. It is just religion with numbers.

@@RaquelSantos-hj1mq it’s actually a very real thing lmao it’s just not the most voter friendly mode of raising the middle class

The problem is he's an idiot who has no problems whatsoever with using the violent coercive power of the government to force individual choices. He's a sweetheart apart from that, I guess?

The amazing thing, his questions are right on, no matter the topic. You can "binge" him over a weekend and never hear the same topic twice.

@@friendlyone2706 yeah, obviously when he’s got someone in the computing field on his questions are precise and very good because that’s Lex’s own field of study. But even in this economics discussion, where Lex clearly is not totally familiar with the terms used, he still provides great questions. Unlike other podcasts where they might try and keep the conversation always flowing for easy listening, Lex isn’t afraid to ask people to repeat themselves, nor is he afraid to think for a while on a question. Combined with his genuine curiosity and intellect and he can have a decent discussion with anyone from any field.

If only he could actually pull guests.

Yes, he's doing a great job of being friendly yet as probing as deeply as possible and exploring posssible problems or contradictions in what the interviewee is saying. A rare skill indeed.

My micro economics professor was good (never took macro). But I'll always remember a gov't professor, while talking about the effects of hurricane sandy, said something like "but rebuilding will stimulate the economy." I can't stand that way of thinking

Did you have Peter Olson?

@Dalton Finney I can't remember. Micro was a Russian gentleman and macro was a guy who had curly hair and his attire hadn't changed since the early 2000s 😀

@@crusherven This is an opportunity cost fallacy. One of the key arguments in favor of Austrian economics. Hazlit’s, economics in one lesson, has a chapter dedicated to this fallacy. It’s a silly argument, because we should all be plundering, rioting and warmongering if following that professor’s logic (also had some of those bozos myself)

All of my economics professors did a good job of staying objective and presenting multiple opinions. My micro professor taught us the diamond and water paradox too lol

Yup

I'm disappointed in Lex not knowing enough about economics to carry on a sensible conversation. Stagflation came because of the oil embargo. In the 80s Reagan (the Fed) raised interest rates and broke inflation. Regan bought into supply side, cut taxes too much and ran huge deficits. A more sensible policy would've been to keep taxes high enough or spending low enough to balance the budget. Lex seems unaware of tax and spending policies, the role of deficits (when they're good or bad), and so he's ill equipped to converse with his arrogant mud slinging libertarian guest

Listen again. Keynesian's claimed for decades stagflation was impossible and could never happen yet it did. This is a CENTRAL PREMISE TO THE ENTIRE THEORY.

Well, stagflation in the seventies was easy to understand: The problem was simply the rising oil prices, that made everything more expensive AND caused unemployment, therefore inflation and rising unemployment at the same time. This just shows the problems will all these theoretical approaches to economy: The don't take the real world in account. At least from my point of view Keynes and The New Deal, that was the debut of carrying out these economic ideas in real life, acknowledged that the world is not perfect, and wanted to use economy to improve things. Even if the measures taken sometimes didn't work so well, I don't think you can blame Keynes for every bad thing that has happened since. With the financial deregulations and Reganomics and Thatcher from the '80s and onwards the favorite economists of the establishment was in fact Friedman and Hayek, the latter was, you've guessed it, from the Austrian School. And we still suffer the consequences. I have this feeling with the Austrian Economics, that if you say to them: "The world is not perfect, what will you do?", they will answer: "The world should be perfect." So there's absolutely nothing you can use Austrian Economics for in this imperfect world, where power, both economic, political and military distorts the market. Perhaps their preferred measures against inflation could be useful, but I'm not sure if this requires Austrian School measures or just common sense. Federico Hernando Cardoso managed to stop inflation in Brazil in the 90es, and I don't believe he saw he's actions as particularly coming from the Austrian School. It seems Milei is doing more or less the same in Argentina right now: Not the shock therapy he claims himself, but a good chunk of down writing the currency, followed by slow adjustment to narrow the gap between the official peso value and the market price. It worked for FDC and his Plano Real, but he was lucky the markets didn't speculate too much against the Real. Brazil did still have a big industry and was by far Latin America's biggest economy, so maybe Brazil was considered "too big to fail", by the finance markets. We will have to see, if Milei can carry this through. It could be very tough, because Argentina is somewhat a dwarf, when it comes to industrial power.

PERFECT! Like I said, I respect Austrian Economics ideas, but Austrian Economics bros are incredibly uninformed, biased and arrogante. The same they critizice, but in reverse

⁠@@thomaspetersen-kp2ffyou should read more Austrian economics because they address what you brought up and your assumptions may be wrong.

The definition of inflation has changed 3x in our lifetime alone.

then he doesn't understand the definition of inflation

The many varying measures of inflation is the cause of so much confusion in economics. CPI, ppi, monetary inflation. I hope for a day when it has a uniform meaning.

@@randoroo2540 Welcome to the messy world of data and measurement. No single measure will be perfect when you try and capture "the change in the general price level". But what IS clear is the definition or concept of inflation, that is general price changes.... NOT money supply as this guy claims. Money supply is well... money supply lol although that comes with it's own measurement issues.

@@drdoob246 you don’t understand inflation. Inflating the money supply inflates prices, there’s just a delay between inflation of the money supply and price inflation. Price inflation doesn’t happen without money inflation.

You know what, I've finally figured out what Keynesian economics is and the valuable purpose that it serves for the proponents of it's theories. _"Keynesian economics"_ is just another useful term for what could more accurately be called *_"How to LIE with statistics"_* in order to justify some policy decision _ie(central planning)_ by government or central banksters. The rationale is always the same which is to highlight it's merits while dismissing, refuting, downplaying, or ignoring it's negative impacts or unintended consequences. It is the offspring which forms the basis for the school of thought which is *_The Ends Justify the Means_* . Sure I may have pumped an additional $3 trillion dollars of fiat currency into the economy and increased the national debt to gdp ratio to 123% but at least we're no longer in a recession _(Motivated Reasoning)_ as the unemployment rate has decreased, because people must now work two jobs. So what if inflation has increased by over 50% _(Cognitive Dissonance)_ and you've lost purchasing power from the dollars which you'd been saving, the alternative could have been worse ! _(Logical Fallacies Argument from Ignorance and Argument from Adverse Consequences)_

Keynesians say that you can buy a shortened recession with borrowing and spending on infrastructure ay a time when the costs of borrowing are very low. Or to quote Milton Friedman, in economics, there is no such thing as a free lunch.

Edmund Phelps actually proved that there can be a free lunch. (Cf.: Golden Rule of Accumulation) He got the "nobel price" for it.

Austrian economist says " money doesn't grow on trees". Keysian economist buys a money tree on Amazon and pretends its real

​When you run out of factual arguments, you try mockery. Your post is an example of this. You do not address the fact I mentioned that the Austrian School is trapped in a static view and does not take dynamic developments into account. Quote: "How can the value of the goods produced be different from the value of the spending." That's a static view, and it shows what a big mistake the Austrian School makes: Not taking into account dynamic developments. If a factory had certain costs to produce a certain good, and now cannot sell it for a price that will at least cover the cost (for example because deflation took place) they will go out of business. Deflation means, that it's not just one good's price that decreased, so this company going out of business cannot be explained by them producing a product that is not desired or having a poor management, it's just that the price level of EVERYTHING has changed because money is what got more scarce. This kind of deflation is hell for investors. That's why in a cyclical crisis the following happens: The propensity to save / hoard increases. In a perfect world, this propensity to save is mirrored by increased investing (that's what saving means in real terms). However the increased propensity to save creates deflation (not in the "Austrian" definition but in the definition of real economists - so a lowering of prices for producible goods) because money is circulating more slowly. This kind of deflation however is a hell for people who have invested (and especially deflation expectations are hell for investors). That's why investments will crush. So the opposite of what should happen (higher savings being offset by higher investments) is happening, because of wrong incentives.

Can't give you his exact reasoning, but the general austrian position is that Breton Woods was less bad than what we have now. but still a failed system. When it comes to monopolies, Austrians only recognize actual monopolies (a truly single entity control over a market) which only happens in stateful societies. The so called natural monopolies are usually just "dominant players". What we traditionally call monopolies are not really that bad as long as their competition is not prohibited by law. I'd recommend to check out the Austrian view on the history of Standard Oil. It's a really clear example of the reasoning.

It's actually sad that being an Austrian economist (or as he said, economist) is the dissenting opinion these days. Unfortunately we are in the middle of experiencing what happens when you play Keynesian games and continue to kick the proverbial can down the road. Eventually the piper needs to be paid...

@@kutark That’s definitely an interesting perspective. But will the Fed ever run out of money to print? They’ll just continue to print. The most important leverage is the Greenback’s “privilege!” All’s at stake if a catastrophic foreign policy blunder destroys that privilege. I think the problem will come from outside rather than inside. Don’t you think?

But he isn't well-versed in the opposing theory, or at least he does not demonstrate that he is by way of steel-manning (or even dispassionately enunciating) the theory he opposes. Instead he begins from the tendentious premise that it is wrong and evilly-motivated.

@@AANasseh The end result of endless currency printing is closer than you think.

a bitcoin guy saying nobel prize economist is wrong and he is right. sounds legit./

Glad I read this. Went down to the comments 20 min in to see if everyone was going to discuss that this guy is all hyperbole, insults, and opinions. Now I'll wait until the end.

@@TheCrouchingZebra literally same lol

@@TheCrouchingZebra Was it worth watching till the end? I cut bait around half way through.

@@mmg486 no this guy is a bad interview. Can't articulate a single point despite having taught before

@@TheCrouchingZebra I mean the guy spends 20 minutes calling everybody that disagrees with him propagandists and frauds, and then fails to present the actual arguments Keynes made. And then Saifedean even fails to explain marginal utility and his own position. How can the last 20 minutes become better?

They are an endangered species now

@Brandon Lee lol. these people would go back to where the tribe chief decides who gets what from the loot.

🤡

​@@Llkc60 I would take a tribe chief over a child loving politician lol

@@kingkoi6542 you might wanna do some reading on how tribals had taken wives and at what age. Anyway, I don't know who you refer to and I don't want a chief or a pedophile in power either

@@Llkc60 at least tribal chiefs gave a damn about their tribe...

Socialism doesn't work. Keynes enables socialist policies.

I don't think asking for more than 50 billion dollars to the IMF is very keynesian thing to do when your country has a serious issue with foreing currency savings. Owing USD to the IMF is super inflationary, is not due to spending...

@@toletoles Inflation was well over 20% from 2010 until 2017, that is, before the loan and with proclaimed fans of Keynes as ministers.

@@toletoles Keynes is considered the intellectual founding father of the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank

​@@KevHalen Considered by whom?

Agreed. Plus the gold standard wasn’t without problems both before and especially during and after the First World War. There were tons of depressions in the 19th century, gold standard notwithstanding. The Austrian school remembers a world that wasn’t and imagines a world that would never be. Austrian economists are the economics equivalent of climate change deniers. There are questions worth asking and orthodoxies worth challenging but they flirt with crank territory pretty quickly.

Currency is wealth in the most general sense because it's issued by sovereign states with millions of productive people who can produce goods and services and will exchange them for said currency. The USD is the reserve currency of the world not because of 'petrodollar' or the United states navy or even the massive nuclear arsenal but because there is about 350 million AMericans with massive mineral wealthy continent to themselves which no one can invade. Why should the government limit itself to a ridiculous gold standard when everyone knows the true wealth of a state is it's human, natural and industrial resources? Austrians are brain dead fools with a medieval conception of wealth and don't understand the first thing about why we are wealthy now and would not be nearly so using something as medieval as a gold standard. Gold standards are for people who don't trust each other and can't work together apparently still looking for the nationalism we now almost all have and will die for. This guy is a dumb as the rest of them.

Im pretty dumb, and was never trained in economics, but realising that real wealth is what is being traded on each side of the monetary transaction is one of the few 'ah ha' moments i have had in understanding economics.

@@garethbarry3825 Currency is a promise and ultimately you got to be pretty paranoid fool to think all transactions can be settled be 'real wealth'. The entire point of fiat money is because we got a bit better at civilization and understood that the promise of the thing wasn't just as good as the real thing but better as more people could make more promises than any volume of gold would allow. All we really needed was better means to evaluate who we are interacting with and if you still don't know the banking license your local bank got gave them the right to create money for you ( not money they had from someone else) based on the fact that you signed that you would pay it back and their belief that you could. That is MUCH simpler than mining a scarce resources and explains not just a little of the boom times we have experienced the last century.

Krugman won't do it, Bob Murphy's been trying to debate Krugman for years... It would be a massacre.

LOFL, Krugman gets his ass handed to him every time.

Russ Roberts has or had a podcast that was very good. He also gets really heated whenever he talks about Krugman

@@crushervenEconTalk. Highly recommended.

Debates, particularly these on highly complex matters, tend to turn to an exchange of non-sequitur answers, flowery soundbites or scholarly nitpicking; that's not to say that we should not have debates, these can be useful as well, let's just make sure their scope is properly defined and the facilitator is well prepared and forceful enough to prevent participants to get away with nonsense (all without showing bias! i.e. a tough job). BTW, Lex Friedman does a fantastic job in the alternative format. He is a great Candide as he prompts his guest with _apparently_ naïve questions, fostering slow, calm responses and restating the guest's key point in a simple but explicit fashion. Lex' great abilities and preparedness in this format give no indication that he'd be successful as a debate moderator.

Bingo! Actually, how is a minimally funcional transit system in any urban environment meant to work

Austrians have predicted imminent hyper inflation for over 100 years .... annyyyyy day now.

@@sleazypolar You didn't get the joke. (Lol!). Read his submission again.

I predicted that comment, and the followed up comments.

@@sleazypolar our dollar has lost 99% of the purchase power it had 100 years ago. That's hyperinflation, just over a century. The economic example of a boiled frog.

@@cuatro336 So what?

Haiti is even poorer than Cuba, but no one blames Haiti's bad economy on communists.

I think his point is that these aren't proper scientific experiments because there are too many uncontrolled (and unaccountable) variables. It's another way of saying "economics isn't a hard science".

I interpreted him to mean exploring the counterfactuals is impossible as reality can only play out once.

You can observe but you cannot establish causation in the same manner you can for a controlled laboratory experiment.

@@Theviewerdude only partially true. A lab controlled experiment is only the best or highest form of data. It’s not always better, it can have a bad design etc.

The only example he gave against Keynesian economics was stagflation which makes no sense. Since economies moved to floating exchange rates in the 80s and 90s this is no longer a problem.

@@uppitymantis7578 What did floating exchange rates have to do with this example?

@@bensupit8991 Floating exchange rates were brought in to end the stagflation following the Nixon Shock. This ended the Bretton Woods system and advanced economies haven't seen stagflation since. Central banks now have the ability to target inflation, whereas previously this was impossible when mandated to control foreign exchange. This is called the 'trilemma of international finance'.

Krugman contradicts his own textbook.

I agree but this guy sucked, just a bunch of conclusions and complaints

is milton friedman also wrong then too? lol...

@@gregoryclark2221 yes

So, inflation went up? Go check the WSJ and look it up; watch and learn.

So, could anyone please tell me, what to do, when people produce more goods, but can't produce more gold - so can't print more money to mesure this new goods? Where we can get more money = more blood of economy?

@@user-kx5sn4ss5q As the number of goods produced increases due to technological improvements, that means that the per unit costs of those goods has decreased. This means that firms competing against each other have a lower price floor that they can go down to when competing against each other. This ultimately means that as the firms compete against each other for customers, they will lower their prices until a new lower price equilibrium is achieved. While this is deflation, which Keynesians abhor, this is in fact a completely natural occurrence. People still need to buy goods! And lower prices means that people’s wealth is constantly growing, meaning that their material quality of life is improving.

@@beybladeguru101 thank you for your try to answer my question, but you didn't understand it. I will try be more directly. Imagin, that you are big bisnesmen, who have created new popular product, and now have big piece of all exsisting pie of money.. Now look. At first - you are not intrested to return this money to risky new product dewelopments - becous chance that your new try will be sucsesfull - just 10%. (As we now, 90% of new bisinesses are not sucsesfull). And more - you money will be rese and you do not ned to do with them anything! And more- Thouse people, enterpreners, who would like to inwent and to produce new, much more efishient, bettet products - then that, your have qreated before and have money - that people just can't make price more than your product, becouse consumers jast don't have money, becouse they alredy in your pocets - so you - past just control feature - becouse even if you will not created anything usefull during your next years, YOU WILL BE CONTROL THE SAME AMOUNT OF ECONOMY - THRY YOUR CONCTANT PIECE OF EXISTING IN THE WORLD MONEY!! So, imagin that with some time, many outher inwentors created MUCH MORE REAL GOODS - but the price of all of this goods will be NOT equals their REALL MATTERS in relation to thet amount of goods, thet your created before! In this sustem, that one, who first will colect much piece of money, will be control thе same pice of world economy!! Forewer! Throught the money!! Is it Do you understand that? So we will have situation, when weals - and world resourses - will be in that hands, whoes parents give it to them, NOT IN HANDS OF ENTERPRENERS HANDS - like NOW !! And we will haw just new aristocracy!! With money =power, that passed down from generation to generation of the same families - like we have all previous history!! Sorry about my grammar, hope it is undersandible eneugh..

@@user-kx5sn4ss5q Вибачте, я не розмовляю українською добре - Поэтому я буду писать по-русски(и прости меня если ты не говоришь по-русски). Если у кого-то 90% всех денег которые существуют, тогда какое ему пользу иметь эти деньги, если деньги не будут циркулировать? Он будет обязан в какой-то момент потратить эти деньги потому что у всех людей есть надо требования и желания которые они хотят выполнить. Ну давай скажем что этот человек никогда не потратить свои деньги, а даже эти деньги уничтожить каким-то образом. Тогда в коротком периоде будет массовая Дефляция - в коротком периоде это будет очень плохо. Ну после какой-то времени оставшиеся 10% денег которые ещё существуют станут новым средам обмена, и цена упадёт в девять раз. Басовой экономике есть формула, и оно идёт так: Рост в ценах = Рост в количество денег + Рост в скорость обращения денег - Рост самой экономики По твоему примеру если рост в количества денег или рост в скорости обращения денег отрицательный, если всё остальное остается таким же, тогда рост в ценах тоже будет отрицательным. И прости если на моём комменте есть ошибки, я давно не пишу по-русски.

@@beybladeguru101 Оу, отлично, я понимаю по русски - но если при письме буду делать ошибки, снова прошу прощения. Смотрите, представим что мой прапрадед изобрел телеграф. И на этом заработал - продавая эту революционную (на свое время) технологию - допустим, 5% от всейдоступной денежной массы в мире. Например пусть все деньги мира это 1 трн $. 5% от 1трн$ это 50 млрд$. Тобишь в его руках оказалось 5% мировых денег = 5% мировых благ. Теперь смотрите. За 200 лет другие люди наизобретали НОВЫХ Благ, технологий, продуктов (самолеты, интернет, айфоны, гугл, нефтекомпанихи, химикогиганты, пластмасы, автомобилестроение, аграрные технологии - комбайны, спутники ) - ну вобщем Вы поняли - Все те БЛАГА И РЕАЛЬНЫЕ ЦЕННОСТИ, которые попросту Не существовало на тот момент, когда в руках моего прапрадеда оказались 5% от мировых денег. И теперь - через 200 лет - Реальный обьем Блага, которое создал мой дед - телеграфа - относительно ОБЩЕГО РЕАЛЬНОГО ОБЬЕМА реальных благ - не 5%, а каких то 0,000000000001%. НО!! Если общий обьем денежной масы НЕ ИЗМЕНИЛСЯ- каким был 200 лет назад, таков и сейчас - И если реально мой прапрадед и все его наследники до меня, покупая ВСЕ ЧТО НЕОБХОДИМО И ВООБЩЕ ВОЗМОЖНО КУПИТЬ ДЛЯ ЛИЧНОГО ПОЛЬЗОВАНИЯ (дом, яхта и пр.) потратили всего то 1 млрд с 50 млр, и мне досталось 49 млрд долларов, которые заработал еще мой прапрапрадед 200 лет назад - Получиться что в моих руках - по стоимости - окажеться почти те же 5% мировой экономики= управления обьемом мировых благ, тогда как РЕАЛЬНЫЙ ОБЬЕМ МИРОВОЙ ЭКОНОМИКИ увеличился - и технология телеграфа если измерить ее реальную ценность! НА ТЕКУЩИЙ МОМЕНТ - по сравнению с РЕАЛЬНОЙ ценность Всех остальных благ/технологий в мире НА СЕГОДНЯ - это каких то 0,00000000000001%!!!!! А не 5% как было при моем прапрапрадеде!! Но если я по прежнему владею 5% всех денег, то это значит что я владею 5% ВСЕЙ МИРОВЫХ БЛАГ!! - Тобишь, деньги, если их количество не увеличиваеться вместе с увеличением количества благ - перестают СПРАВЕДЛИВО отображать ВКЛАД моего деда относительно Наличествующего Обьем Благ На сегодня!! Ведь деньги - это еденица измерения!! И ЕСЛИ количество едениц измерения (обьем деннежной масы) в мире неизменен - а количество благ увеличилось, а у меня стабильное количество этих единиц (тот минимум который тратиться на ежедневные нужды так мал относительно моих миллиардов что его можна не брать во внимание) - то Выходит что деньги перестают ВЕРНО И СПРАВЕДЛИВО указывать на МОЙ РЕАЛЬНЫЙ ВКЛАД В ЕКОНОМИКУ. А ЭТО - НЕСПРАВЕДЛИВОСТЬ - вызывает Законное желание Перезапустить систему - Войны и революции - потому что нечестно если Реальная Ценность = оцениваимая НА ЭТОТ МОМЕНТ добровольным выбором людей не совпадает с Измеряемой деньгами = % от общей денежной массы. Условно говоря, на сегодня, если я выставлю свою технологию телеграфа на рынок, то она будет оценена людьми не в 5% от всей деннежной масы, а всего то в 0,0000000000000хххх0001%, но если судить по деньгам, то вклад моей технологии по прежнему 5%!! Тогда как Реальный вклад = ИЗМЕРЯЕМЫЙ ДОБРОВОЛЬНЫМ ВЫБОРОМ=РЫНКОМ НА СЕЙ!! СЕЙ МОМЕНТ - намного ниже чем то количество едениц измерения=денег, которым я владею ОТНОСИТЕЛЬНО ОБЩЕГО КОЛИЧЕСТВА ЕДЕНИЦ ИЗМЕРЕНИЯ В МИРЕ. - 5% по деньгам, а в Реальности - 0,0000000001%.. Видите, мой вопрос кроеться в том, КАК обеспечить, (если мы знаем что на нужды жизни - тобишь НЕПРЕМЕННО ВОЗРАЩАТЬ В ОБОРОТ - человек будет лишь 0,0001% от своего обьема денег) - как обеспечить что бы другие технологии - и их владельцы - получили ВЕРНЫЙ ПРОЦЕНТ КОНТРОЛЯ ЗЕМНЫХ РЕСУРСОВ = ЧЕМ И ВЫСТУПАЕТ ТОТ ПРОЦЕНТ ОБЩЕЙ МАСЫ ДЕНЕГ, КОТОРЫМ ТЫ ВЛАДЕЕШЬ?

Watch the full podcast...

yes, I think his question originally was about control in the economy. I think Government protection from external force and of individual of rights is implied as necessary.

Austrian economics has added a lot of value to economic thinking, but calling it, the end all be all of economics, like this guest did; Is dangerously shortsighted and dogmatic. Thorstein Veblen was not an Austrian economist, but does that mean the concept of Veblen goods is not an economic fact of human society? Richard Thaler is not an Austrian economist should we toss out behavioral economics too? Economics is a really interesting subject, sad how it's dominated by all these dogmatist

God some bad news regarding Ron Paul......

@@colewarner4954 … okay. Fill me in

@@WanderingExistence In a world plagued by MMT nonsense, I'll take it.

@@WanderingExistence Thank you. Humans are not rational. Austrian economics overlook that.

Nonsense. There are tons of industries where if a major provider fails, it's not so fast that a competitor can fill the gap in supply to meet demand. Yet the world continues turning. Food distribution is one that's right in our faces...

@@Theviewerdude That's very industry-dependent. Contrast with the shortage in computer chips. The more technological capabilities and initial capital investment you need, the longer it will take for newcomer to set up shop. The market mechanism is much better with things that can be set up quickly and much worse if you need to plan 10 years in advance (say, building a nuclear power plant).

@@Theviewerdude there’s hundreds if not thousands of avenues of foods distribution. It’s not comparable.

@@Theviewerdude Yet another idiot posting nonsense. He is talking about utilities. As for food distrution, why do where has a supply chain crisis? Because of industries end up being controled by 3 or 4 companies. You are welcome for the free education...

Keynesian economics promotes spending because it devalues everything you have while raising prices. Spending and consumption is not growth, it's a government spending spree at everyone's expense.

"I think about what I need and what i want, not about whether my money will devalue by tomorrow, so it makes sense to invest it in buying myself ice cream today." Well, you won't do as well as a Keynesian.

You're absolutely right, it IS ripe for corruption. Asking a profit driven system to solve cultural, social, or environmental problems is a fool's errand. When profit is the sole motivation, true remedies will not be found.

"The free market" doesn't exist. It is the economics version of the flat frictionless plane you use in physics to isolate and calculate forces individually, before you go on to learn dynamics.

Bad actors are found out rather quickly in free markets and punished accordingly. Great case study happening now: watch how quickly Liver King's positive profit trend quickly halts and he's suddenly underwater on all his business ventures

Odd thought about this: changing the laws around patents could really help. If you limit pharmaceutical patents to 3 or 4 years after FDA approval with no extension (rather than 7 years and a 7 year extension) could really help reduce the cost of pharmaceuticals. As to whether or not the FDA will do it’s due diligence in making sure the drug won’t kill people is a different problem though…

Things like Pharma, Petrochemicals and pollution is why I don't believe in anarchocapitalism despite favoring Austrian economists most of the time. Negative externalities are a thing. If you don't punish companies in certain sectors alleging "voluntary exchanges between suppliers and consumers" you end up with situations like those of oxycodone, thalidomide, forever chemicals of DuPont, etc. Intervention is needed for industries where suppliers have much knowledge about the risks their products have on consumers yet refuse to disclose or acknowledge them. Yeah over time markets can adapt on their own and expel bad products or actors, but you cannot rectify certain kinds of damage.

Disagree. They (gov) do not care

but Venezuela policy isn't based on keynesian principles?

@@adamsymthe5389 Keynes and Socialism are not disconnected. Both very much want high taxes, deficit spending, government spending is required to drop the unemployment rate. But if you put these on a spectrum, Keynes and Socialism are sharing some pieces of the venn diagram. I will assume that is what the original comment is meant to portray.

@@YourBestFriendforToday "Both very much want high taxes" Keyensians don't WANT higher taxes (esp. during economic downturns(!!)) but do sometimes call for higher taxes, espcially to slow inflation (Ammous's assertion that Keynsians basically WANT inflation is utterly stupid, btw) "deficit" Keyensians don't WANT deficit spending as some sort of philosophical goal, but they do believe that it's OK for a government to run a deficit, esp. to stimulate the economy during a downturn "government spending to drop the employement rate" Assuming you meant "raise the employment rate", well, yeah. That sounds right. The big thing though is that Keynesians call for government intervention in the economy while Socialists call for government control of the economy.

@@YourBestFriendforToday Important point though is that if he's talking about Chavez/Maduro era Venezuala then he NOT talking about an economy being run according 'keynesian economical principals' , and is mistaken if he thinks it is.

@@adamsymthe5389 We’ll have to disagree on the higher taxes part. While they might not ‘ want’ them, all that I’ve seen have 0 issues pushing for increases. Deficit spending, we should just call it how governments run in the western world. It’s part of the DNA now.

He generally has no idea about what Keynes actually thought

You are perfectly correct. There is undoubtedly plenty to be criticised about Keynesian Economics, but this chap doesn’t understand it in the first place. Worth noting that he doesn’t actually have an Economics degree.

to his credit he answers them. Keynes was a joke.

@@infopocalypse5006 *is Keynesian economics is very much the current model in use. Its not neve close, we are a society running on the Keynsian model.

@@fortusvictus8297 I know it is. It's great for politicians to bypass democracy and for the elite to widen the gap between them and the poor. Not a good model for the rest of us though.

No, because eventually, a competitor with a better technology, better customer service (and the small size/bureaucracy that allows rapid adaptation to consumer wishes), will move faster and with better service to undermine the "rent seeking" monopolists and replace them. Corrupt monopolies only manage to cement a hold on a market if laws/regulations are passed to protect them artificially. It is politicians with guns and jails who can ensure corrupt corporations are given lucrative contracts and "protected" markets through lobbying and bribery of the politicians.

@@stopper90004 Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I see that gov corruption via lobbiests as a significant problem in the current climate. I feel like this has been discussed at length, however. Attempting to pry powers from the ruling class is hard bargain. I'm more interested in the thought experiment where independent corporations exercise their power with huge war chests which they can use to squash or acquire any nascent competition.... which is an epidemic today. Coercive force is not the only force levied when the authorities turn a blind eye to antitrust legislation. We don't just need an entity to be "not corrupt" we also need it to protect the populace from the dangers of a nationstate ruled by oligarchy.

What's your point? We're talking about the government not being allowed to literally counterfeit money - not whether or not the govt should exist. This is about inflation, not the existence of govt.

Multinational conglomerates and monopolies are created, protected, and maintained by governments in the first place. Ex: Coca Cola is the only company allowed by the DEA to import coca leaves. That’s a legal advantage they have over competitors.

The thing is that the goivernment are given monopoly over certaint thing or in other words we don't get to choose. If you get rid of all the laws and take away the privileges of the gouvernment the gouvernment almost becomse a company minus the private part.

if all countries are in the same free market economy then nobody would have a standing army?

Robert Murphy addressed the ability of a free market to supply militaristic defense, ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-VgpThFkZmbc.html

@@crappymeal The first to recognize that will win the world. So no, your utopian world will never happen in reality.

@@lesterchua2677 what utopian world? i don't understand or subscribe to either worldview

1: Agree. 2: Disagree. A society does not need a large standing army. Look at Ukraine and their fight against Russia, the vast majority of Ukraine's military power comes from civilian militias. Now think about how much more effective they would be if Ukraine were not the 2nd most corrupt country on earth. 3: To your point about government, I do agree that it is a necessity, but kept at a minimum level as envisioned in the American founding. That level of government didn't involve a standing army and its spending was just a few % of GDP.

Agreed!

Your first time hearing about economics at 27?

Very true.

Saifedean is extremely attached to his points of view. And, no matter how “true” they might be, if you’re attached to them, you’ll always be wrong.

It's hard not to get emotional about the largest fraud scheme in human history. Still, I agree

@@lucask3 Do you see what you just did?

Context of cultural differences is an important note here. It’s okay to comment on weight in the Philippines; in fact it’s not at all taboo. Fat shaming is common. Not saying it is right but making a point that perhaps trash talk is integral in the speakers culture.

Keynesians and Austrians rely on data. If you’re an economist in the 21st century, you work with data. Macroeconomics as we know it is primarily Keynesian in orientation, first of all. There are differences in models. That’s where the “a priori” slips in. But Keynes actually has verifiable macroeconomic behaviors. You can use data to extract several multipliers for various phenomena. By it you have to keep in mind that your model will never be exactly one to one with concrete real economic activity at the micro level. When you speak of prices, you speak in aggregates. Modern mainstream economics is more or less Keynesianism reluctant to shed the Austrian and Classical influences. They still want to believe in a loanable funds theory to the determination of interest rates. They don’t think the central bank has any effect on real economic activity…and yet are so concerned about prices, which by the way also don’t affect real economic activity, just the price level.

@@georgedelvalle4588 right, Keynes tries tries to use data to build models in order to be prescriptive regarding macroeconomic theory and yes. They do have a problem with viewing government and central banks as completely static within their models, which I'd argue doesn't do much to verify their macroeconomic predictions at all. Where Austrians simply attempt to describe economics from the idea of supply and demand with resources being scarce (I don't believe keynesian do this because they don't seem to think there aren't any real concequences of using m1 to stimulate demand or at least that problem can be solved later after after the economy is moving again). They understand the government/Fed to to be a bad actor as well as institutions and people to be important dynamic components of the economy just the same. So I guess they both do rely on data, but my point is that Austrians are much more likely to follow a priori methods given any data. Rather than where Keynesian will use it to make predictions and thus pronouncements on how to effectively command the economy.

Austrians don't rely on data; Keynesians do try to make predictions using data. They make fasifiable claims.

@@rlkinnard is there an echo in here?

Austrians are always correct as a broken clock tells time correctly twice a day. They kept predicting crisis and inflation coming for decades, of course one day it would happen. For ten years, since QE was launched, they have been predicting hyperinflation while it actually kept at record lows. It took a pandemic to change that, an event that shook the chains of supply in a global level. And we are still very far from hyperinflation.

Interested in his ideas but his Absolute and unquestioning belief in Bitcoin is a huge red flag. Even before the crash

You clearly didn't understand what he was saying when he was speaking about the barber. It's not really a monopoly if it's just that they're the only provider in that 10 mile radius. And the market may not necessarily need more providers. If that one provider does a shit job or tries to price gouge, it provides an opportunity for a new competitor to open up shop, or people will just drive to the next town over.

@@Theviewerdude I understood it: it's the same old argument with 'spherical cow' assumptions. And I was talking about monopolies more in general, like one private company that controls the whole market. 'It's not necessarily bad' lol. Well, it probably is. So what's the solution? He assumes continuity and fast adjusting times, which don't represent reality. Yeah, theoretical physicists do first-principles stuff, but models can be far from quantitative solutions. I've never heard a libertarian go beyond the first step of 'paying taxes is coercion'. One single principle is too simplistic and unlikely to give you a good model to organize society.

Inclusive in Keynesian economics ...

Another one: "We have the best government money can buy" (;

Amen to that, there are also those guests whose certainty on their answers (Francis Collins, Albert Burla) conveys the exact opposite

Guests who don't presume they are right? Not today.

@@christopherrubicam4474 I mean gosh. I really appreciated the host pushing back but the guest was so certain in his beliefs and theories, to the point of repeatedly ridiculing and denouncing Keynesian economist. I'm baffled how anyone listens to the whole podcast and comes away thinking the guest was not super certain in his beliefs.

Did we watch the same podcast? Ammous is beyond certain of his assertions, to the point that Lex had to call him out on his certainty at 21:34.

This guest literally started off saying that his version of economics is the only correct version out there...... I'm not sure how that squares with not presuming he's right?

Yes. Menger is everyone’s predecessor in economics. Except the Marxists.

He never argued that economists didn’t follow it. He said that it was the roots of Austrian economics.

@@olegigoverich7684 Even alien economists use Marginal costs in their analysis. It’s at the root of economics regardless of specialty. There is really no ideological issue here.

@@alQarafi I agree I’m just saying that he was explaining the roots of the Austrian school.

@@olegigoverich7684 Did Mises have marginal cost analysis in his work? If he explained some of the research done by various Austrian Economists that would be pretty interesting.

I would love to hear from an anti austrian such as Milton Friedman.

I would love to see Lex talk to Thomas Sowell.

Why? Thomas Sowell is not an economist. He is not associated with any economics department, He can't do quantitative ecnomic studies, He does not publish in peer-reviewed economic journals (or any journals), Nor does not debate leading economists. He can't even read economic journals and does even know statistics. Having a law degree does not make you a lawyer.

@@RK-um9tu It's because they are talking about Austrian Economics, and Sowell's book 'Basic Economics' resonates the Austrian Economics's spirit.

No! Thomas Sowell, Freidman and the Chicago School of Economics is socialism disguised as capitalism. Sowell has interesting socialogical ideas but him and Friedman are just more gatekeepers when it comes to economics.

But not impossible, and that is why Newton is Newton

That’s like saying it’s impossible to forecast, which isn’t true. There are certain things that are impossible to forecast such as how the economy responded to the pandemic, but we can forecast normal business and economic cycles.

@@neofusionstylx i know that it is hard to believe but most economists have forecast that inflation is coming down with the fed raising interest rates. Only Austrians doubt it. Let's get some popcorn and watch.

@@rlkinnard I studied economics at the University of Chicago, so I lean more fiscally conservative , but these Austrian economists seem like economic 101 students. As in, a lot of what they say makes sense, and alot is accurate, but A huge difference between Chicago and Austrian schools is Chicago uses empirical data and math. Austrians have these set of “logical” arguments that seem to make sense on paper, but they don’t back their assumptions with empirical data. So at the end of the day, we don’t know if their foundations are correct or not, and this guy being anti-data kinda shows what’s wrong with the Austrian school. How do you know your assumptions are correct if you don’t rigorously test it? We’ve seen that a lot of Austrian economics was just wrong the past 15 years. The fed has been doing QE for the past 15 years and inflation has been kept under control until 2021. So something gave, and it’s not just the printer, but a combination of supply shocks coupled with increased consumption demand.

@@neofusionstylx Austrians claim that you cannot predict, and yet, I am sure that price inflation was going to start going down 6 months ago when I first posted here, and it will continue going down as the Fed is continuing to tighten the money supply. I am sure that both fresh water and salt water economists would agree with that.

🤡👙

Read his book. The FIAT STANDARD AND THE BITCOIN STANDARD

Well, I have to say, I think this is the rock bottom worst. Not Lex's fault, this guy has nothing to offer in terms of insight, just ad-hominem attacks on Keynesians and a thorough misrepresentation of them. The "central planning" straw man was almost humorous.

@@koho I found it enlightening. His critiques of Keynesians were spot on.

@@robinhoode3875 I had the opposite view. Sorry this is so long, but here's a comment copied for convenience: The key tenets of Keynes are that inadequate overall demand can lead to prolonged periods of high unemployment ("inadequate" having a specific meaning but many possible causes that must be evaluated), and that government intervention, under the right circumstances (not just any old time), can stabilize the economy. This guy calls this malarky, misrepresents the history and assumptions of the theory, and ignores the fact that this has been proven to be correct multiple times, not least of which were the 2008 crisis and the pandemic. And, re 2008, countries that imposed austerity did far worse in recovery than those that used government stimulus, and re the pandemic, the US correctly injected stimulus (if a little too much), and has fared better than almost anywhere else. Ammous seems to be driven by an emotional repulsion of the idea that government should play any role in the economy, and I still don't understand what "his" school has to offer. For comparison with a realistic and compassionate view of the world based on actual information, see Lex's interview with Krugman.

As a mainstream economist, I would not expose myself to such radioactive material.

What is this question you want answered about the issue of debt to GDP?

@Tom The issue of inflation has been answered. The issue the op presented could be a few things, none positive.

My thought exactly 💯

I thought the same thing, this language is bland compared to what is warranted.

A little humility; Austrians cannot know why one aproach is better than another.

@@rlkinnardRead Mises before asserting mid-wit claims.

@@ryankane9500 If he does not make predictions, then he belongs in the department of philosophy and not in economics. If He makes testable claims what are they?

I don't know how much of a good thing it is, but an increasing number of people have come to the same realization as you have.. I lived and worked in the US for 10 years and used to think that Social Security and Medicare are essentially Ponzi schemes. .. i had no idea that there was an ever bigger Ponzi scheme than that.

We gave them Gold, and in return they give us paper. Where's the scam? LOL

"Inflation and Credit expansion, the preferred method of government open handedness, Do not add to the amount of resources available, they simply make some more prosperous, but only to the extent that they make others poorer" -Ludwig Von Mises "We can guarantee cash benefits as far out and at whatever size you like, but we cannot guarantee their purchasing power" -Alan Greenspan

Economies are largely not governed by the laws of thermodynamics, nor are we violating the laws of thermodynamics with our economies. What are you having a hard time with?

How does it compare to Ray Dalio's business cycle theory?

@@losboston Get to the library and STUDY STUDY STUDY

The Austrian Economist discovered/identified the Business Cycle. It’s another example that vindicates the truth of The Austrian School.

You clearly have no ideal about economics. Austrian ecnomics has ZERO empirical support and is just about a made up nonsense that is just an excuse to make the rich richer.

@@losboston It has been around a lot longer than Ray Dalio.