Why players like Riquelme don’t exist anymore 

Here's something funny: in Argentina the number 10 is called the "Enganche" because, as you said, he is the hook between midfield and attack. And, in many cases, that's literally it. The prominent 3-4-1-2 and 4-4-2 Diamond formations of the 1980s and 1990s were so common in Argentina that the player in that role was literally a "hook". Ahead of him, two strikers. Behind him two central midfielders. On the other hand in Brazil we used to call this player the "ponta-de-lança" (tip of the spear) because in the 1960s/1970s lots of teams played in a 4-2-4. Back in the 1960s and 1970s, most teams were playing on a 4-2-4 that would sometimes ressemble a lopsided 4-3-3 when one of the strikers would drop deep to create in front of the other two midfielders thereform creating the shape of a spearhead. The number 5 (6 in Europe, first man in front of the defence) was a "médio volante", the number 8 was a "meia armador" and the number 10 was the "ponta-de-lança". It all changed during the 1980s and 1990s with the proeminence of the iconic 4-2-2-2 formations. With a square on the midfield, the name of the roles changed completely. The number 5 (6 in Europe) became the "primerio volante" (first volante), the number 8 became the "segundo volante" (second volante) and the two playmakers were called "meia atacantes" (half forwards). And it's so confusing to so many people that they still refer to Pelé as a center forward to this day.

When I was 8. I remember Tuesday as my "father's night". My parents were divorced and on Tuesdays, It was a father/son moment (on Saturdays, my little sister would come along). As a Boca Juniors fan (of course inherited by my father), I remember the time where we acquired a great player, Lapaglia. In that same transfer, Boca purchased Riquelme. And it was watching boca when we could, to watch the newest listings. And Riquelme was the one that would always leave you with an awe expression. The man had the field in his mind. I saw him become a legend in my club. Thank you for this video. My father passed away a year ago. You reminded me of those "father's nights"

You can really measure his importance by counting the number of young brazilian players called Riquelme, Rykelmy or Riquelmo

Riquelme is one of my favorite players of all time, and this coming from a Brazilian person should tell you something about how great that man was. Don't tell anyone I said this.

As other Brazilians have commented - the brilliance of Riquelme can be measured by the mix of fear, hate and admiration that exists for him here in Brazil. He destroyed Brazilian teams in the copa libertadores for a decade. We were always both pissed off and in awe. Of that generation, if you ask here in Brazil - and not Argentina - you’ll find that the only no 10 that are considered in the same league as Riquelme are Zidane and Rivaldo, and opinions about who is the best are varied. Also, on that, is that in Brazil, a classic playmaker, a no10, is by far the most admired player.

Messi doing Riquelme's celebration while staring down Van Gaal at the World Cup was epic.

I'm Argentine born and raised and i never heard the expression "La Nuestra" to refer to any kind of football philosophy or similar. Sounds like some generic latin name for a town in a Hollywood movie. If you want to talk about football playstyles you can say "Lírico" or "Rustico" (lyrical or rustic) or go by football schools which would be Bilardismo (doing everything it takes to win, inside or outside the rules) or Menottismo (playing a well proper football, no matter the outcome). Having said that, you did a great analysis. This is the most complete video in english about Riquelme i've seen.

You should have covered his career at Villereal. The yellow submarine. Took them to top four in La Liga and semi finals of Champions League. He ran every game in his 10 role drifting out to the left.

Along with Kaka and Ronaldinho, Riquelme was one of the players that made me start loving football. At first I just loved Chelsea as a kid but these guys made me love football

Riquelme was a beautiful footballer, it is a shame that so many talented players get their careers ruined by coaches who lack vision and flexibility

My favourite player of all time. The way he conducted that Argentina team in the 2005-7 period was incredible. There have been objectively "better" players who've won more or who've scored more goals, but nobody has given me more pleasure to watch than Juan Roman Riquelme.

Riquelme was worldclass, a true artist. He produced some of the best individual performances id ever seen in the Champions league. Amazing player

If Riquelme had the Scaloni treatment in 06 where he was the main part of the team and everyone worked for him, as well as belief in Messi... I think they had a very decent chance of winning the World Cup.

Riquelme absolutely destroyed my team in the finals of Libertadores 2007. What an amazing player he was! The most impressive thing to me was how he would walk around the field with the ball glued to his feet, and defenders would pile up on his back but couldn't steal the ball from him or even foul him - he would never fall to the ground!

Young stars aren't encouraged to express their freedom and build their game, European tactics have completely taken over. Personally I'd prefer if Brazil, Argentina, and other footballing countries stick to their roots, but time will tell I guess, the role requires a truly gifted footballer.

It's hard to understand or imagine today, but that early 2000s Boca Juniors side, with Riquelme, Palermo, etc., and managed by Bianchi, was the best team in the world. Seriously, in the time of the "Galácticos", and the prime of AC Milan, Boca was better than them, Boca beat them. They are, still, the last team to have beaten Real Madrid in a final in regular time. And back in the day the Intercontinental Cup was a very coveted trophy, a final in of itself, European teams wanted it because, historically, South American teams dominated. That Boca team was probably the last big South American team that could claim to be better than the Europeans, the last example of the South American world dominance in club football.

Probably the best player in the World from 99-01. For me, it has always amazed me that Cryuff's students never fully actualized his vision for the game, which is that the players need to be comfortable and the system should always bring out the best in all of them individually. Even in Total Football, the main player who shifted positions was Cryuff because the main priority was to give Cryuff the ball as that was their best chance of scoring. Perhaps an even more perfect description of a total footballer was Di Stefano who fully embodied Riquelme's way of football. He did not need to be coached and he read the game his own way. His coach literally said that having him was like having 2 players in all positions because the way he read the game, he always understood and did what the team needed in order to dominate the game. Someone like a Riquelme will never be allowed in the top level since the next crop of great managers will copy Guardiola.

As an Argentinian football fan, I would say "La Nuestra" is a halfway between the asthetic and flashy brazilian "Jogo Bonito" and the guts, courage and effectiveness of Uruguay's "Garra Charrua". Despite not being a BJ fan, Riquelme is one of the top 5 best nº10 of argie football history.

watching riquelme play was like watching my grandma cook. filled my heart with love

Thomas Muller remains one of the rare gems in football. Nobody really understands what he is good at but somehow he always ends up being at the right place at the right time. You cannot measure such a quality with numbers. This extra bit of quality is what separates Leo Messi from other players. You just cannot quantify it.

I think Lionel Messi under Scaloni is like an enganche. He was roaming everywhere with zero defensive duties and he was the man who made everything work between midfield and attack. Probably the last time we will see the enganche in modern football.

Van Gaal and Bielsa are two of the most hard-headed coaches I have seen in the last 20 years. They rather lose with their system than to win by breaking out of it. No wonder they haven't had success in 20 years.

One of my all-time favourites. His style of play was out of this world.

As a brazilian kid in 90s-00s there was NOTHING scarier than see our teams playing against his Boca Juniors.

Riquelme is very respected here in Brazil because his classical playmaker style is the most admired among brazilians. Its the playstyle everyone wants to have and tries to mimic.

I like looking at tactics and even rewatch games just to try to note some tactical details. Thats why I came across your channel. But the perspective you offered in recent videos is such a good change. I am a coach of a U11 side and many coaches in our league already try to implement a real structure but I dont want to do that. So this idea of giving players the chance to have their own interpretations really speaks to me.

You can link the death of the “genius player” to Ricardo Lavolpe when he was in charge of the Mexico National team in the mid 2000’s. His philosophy was to have full ball control/possession starting from the keeper and working its way up to the striker which meant that ALL 11 players had to work in unison (kinda like a machine that needs all of its parts for it to work properly). Lavolpe himself has said that players like Riquelme, Zidane, etc wouldn’t fit into his style of play which is why he left Cuahtemoc Blanco out of the national team who was Mexico’s version of Riquelme. This revolutionized the sport as we know it at the 2005 Confederation Cup because prior to this, there were plenty of number 10’s all over the world. After the tournament, many teams implemented Lavolpes philosophy but it was Guardiola who perfected the style. Guardiola himself has credited Lavolpe for the foundation of his vision and has even talked about him and the 2005 Mexico national team at a TED talk. Having said all of this, Riquelme was one of my favorite players of all time lol Fun fact: Mexico was knocked out of the 2005 Confederations Cup in penalties by Argentina who had no other than Riquelme himself on that squad and scored the first penalty for Argentina Sources: (in Spanish) Lavolpe speaking on why Riquelme wouldn’t fit in his style of play (starts at 6:06 mark) ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-74sflsrbUuc.html Guardiola talking about Lavolpe (I couldn’t find the video but here is an article about it) tonimatasbarcelo.com/pep-guardiola-sobre-el-entrenador-argentino-ricardo-lavolpe-articulo-el-pais/

eden hazard mentioned riquelme as one of his idols. And in retrospect Hazard was very much in his mold. At chelsea, the entire game flowed through him. He was the lynchpin that drove the attack forward when the midfield and backline were not pentrative with their passing save for fabregas. The whole team had him as the focal point despite him not scoring or assisting as much as his quality suggested. But he was one of the best when it came to metrics like key passes, ball progression, and chance created. But of course, what actually made him so captivating was his genius on the ball.

I love hearing about older players and they styles, and i was always fascinated by brazilian/argentinian way of play and their position metaphors. Will you also make similar videos on other "positions" like Regista, Mezalla etc? Absolutely love you analysis as they are informative, and easy to assimilate

Maradona, Messi, Riquelme, Ortega, Aimar...my top 5 Argentinian playmakers

I’ve been lucky to see virtually all the modern greats since around the early/mid nineties at least once live at the stadium but the best individual performance I’ve witnessed in a match was Riquelme when Villarreal visited Celtic Park to play. Absolute genius. Closely followed by Prosinecki.

banger video again from boca to munich, just kudos. without the human element the sport is just numbers and cash.

It's interesting how the system of van Gaal for the Dutch team in the 2014 world cup was fully dependent on the individual performance of Robben :)

Riquelme was such a beautiful talented footballer and sometimes i see highlights of him and wonder if we’ll ever see a player even remotely similar to him

I've never heard of "La nuestra" despite it sounding pretty much nuestro, but I did hear "la pelota (siempre) al 10" ... and also Basile saying that Riquelme had eyes on his butt. I also remember that the only time we studied something "strategical" instead of just playing handball/football/dodgeball in school in ¿physical education? was about football "MW" system, or was it the other way around, so it itched me so hard when I saw you calling the 5 a 6, xD 8:57 nice

This guy was amazing! I wasn’t surprised when rijkaard discarded him from Barca. He said he didn’t fit in the system but I think it was more so his history with flat giving with with coaches and staff. It’s happened to him in every team. Either way I haven’t seen a player like him since just like another ronaldinho, baggio, Ronaldo el fenomeno ect… they will come it’s football but these athletes are extraordinary

Please look for the story of Luan, that could be a great video. His is a player that won the Olympics with Brazil in 2016 and the Libertadores (the Champions League of South America) with Grêmio in 2017, tourneament in which he was awarded as the best player of the competition. Later in 2020 he was buyed by Corinthians, another brazilian club, in a 4 season contract. There he wasn't able to perform as he once did. Last month he was caught by Corinthians fans in a motel and was severely beaten. This week he was signed again by Grêmio and is looking for returning to his good form, mostly because of the good heart of Grêmio's coach, who have publicly appealed for his signing.

Riquelme is one of the most underrated footballers of all time. One of my favourite players ever and this guy never gets a mention. A true great

This has been on my mind a lot lately (especially after Brugts' two goals for the Netherlands Women's team at the World Cup. You just don't see that type of shot taken on anymore). Coaching at youth level, I worry for the kid's development when they don't have the likes of Riquelme, Baggio, Zidane etc to draw inspiration from or get excited about. The focus is purely results driven and we talk about scorelines over anything we have seen within the game.

Riquelme’s pause of the game and vision would slow down the chaos and find the perfect pass across lines that lead to a goal .. this pause would be much appreciated in football now due to the speed football is n

Please never stop making these videos. This is just PURE football

He didn't need a system at all. He literally was the system. I remember Boca in 2001 won everything with only him as the star of the team (some of the other players were injured, if I'm not mistaken). He could start the play literally anywhere. He would get the ball as a wing, as a forward, as center forward, as a central midfielder and would make sure that the ball is safe and the whole team in a better position after his pass. Depending on the moment of the game, he could dribble forward, play fast, play slow, hold the ball longer, shoot if the defense was too tight, make a 60 meter pass, whatever it takes... I think the difference with Thomas Müller is that Riquelme needed the ball all the time.

You went full Lacanian in the understanding of words. Just another brilliant video

I'm brazilian and a Riquelme fan. When I was young I always tried to copy his playstyle and elegance playing with friends. Riquelme was a legend, at least for me!

great video! i love Riquelme, and i think he's a great example of the point you're making. should do another video though highlighting his magic at Villarreal, too! it's interesting to me that Pep is used as this example of total control over players and system > individuals. Pep is system-oriented, he has a rigid, position-oriented conception of space, BUT, he's much more Cryuff than Van Gaal. at every stop, in every season, he's accommodated his tactics to fit his players. he fit his system to Messi at Barça, he found a role for Müeller at Bayern, he's come up with wild new schemes at Man City. to be honest, for folks who want more 10s, they should watch MLS. the parity is such that you can't win without that special, differential talent who can make magic and change a game with one touch. you have creative passing 10s, ankle-breaking dribbling 10s, goalscoring 10s...

I knew that pedri tweet was there for a reason lol

Hey can you make a video on the most effective dribblers (highest % dribble success rate) either for last season or of all time, and analyze their technique, speed, and timing as to why they’re so efficient. The likes of Mitoma, Dembele, Ben Arfa, Robben, Messi, etc. That would make a great video imo

Thanks for bring this enganche topic. Here in Argentina some referents are starting to express their opinions and trying to bring the discuss to the table, because it is a fact that this southamerican style of playing, using individual skills as a part of the football creation instead of pure tactics and systems, is almost vanished. I can mention as part of this referents Ricardo Gareca, Pablo Aimar, and the proper Riquelme, now with his new dedication as manager (sort of) on Boca Juniors. With different levels of agreealness they mention as the root casues a combination of: - european influences, specially Riquelme talks about this whenever he can, when journalists brings the topic "speed and intensity in the football" arguing that football is not running, that you need to think for yourself on the field, and that for him in one hand requires a better developed player, but on the other, brings not just better results but better spectacle. One of his famous quotes are "correr corre cualquiera, jugar a la pelota es mas complicado / everybody can run, playing football is more complicated than that (one can directly say that this european influence its transform as an abandonment of our traditions, we can argue). - the actual socio-politics situation. I've seen Aimar talking about the imposibility of doing today in the streets the things that we were doing when we were kids, bringing a combination of basically 2 things: the insecurity levels on the streets in the actual times, and a change of the way parents raise their childs, particulary when it comes to injuries. - lack of criteria of the children's football coachs. I've seen Gareca talking about how he stress himself when people bring to him videos of 6-12 y/o kids training and he sees that they are doing tactics instead of developing his abilities. I've also seen Gareca talking to his players about the importance of taking the time to think when he was the Selección de Peru trainer, teaching them that he required they to touch the ball at least 2 times before passing, to develope a sense of football. The good thing is, all of them have proposals, Gareca advices the coachs to leave tactics to "it's time" (when players are more grown) and allow the kids to develope his skills, Riquelme has changed the direction of the minor leagues in Boca, they now train and play with a formation that allows the develope of the enganche, and Aimar encourages the children football structure to try bring some of the things that makes what you refers as "la nuestra" (i never heared about it, we talk always about EL POTRERO), he knows that all the things that we did in the streets can't be transfered to the structures, but some can. I think is a discuss that we owe to ourselves not only as football lovers, but as southamericans.

Great video man. As a brazilian, I grew up watching this dude's completely dominate Libertadores, destroying our teams. Everyone loved his playstyle, even though we hated the outcome of it 😂

If you love football, you can't not be a Riquelmista.

I just want to thank you again for a spectacular video. You articulate things that have been in my mind, but kind of blurry and undefined, and you put simple words and explanations on those feelings. You link different things together to make the complexity of football comprehensible, without oversimplifying. You explain in a very straight forward way all the poetry that exists in football. Thank you for that.

This channel is what Tifo football wishes it was. About time a great analyst of tactics came about on RU-vid

I think you missed an opportunity to tie Riquelme into the 2022 World Cup match between Argentina and Netherlands. Van Gaal got his comeuppance and Messi made sure to pour it on thick.

Worth noticing clusters of players forming around Riquelme at vídeos from his time at Boca. He was not just a seam from defense to attacking players but also hooked positional players to a relational type of tactic.

Super! Loved the pace, the tone, the edits. Great info. Thank you!

As a Riquelme fan I would change de term "La Nuestra" to "Jugar a la pelota". It defines better the concept because that way is te way the kids say when they want to play football anywhere. Amazing video tho, I love your content

Fun fact. Van Gaal was the one who brought Thomas in the first team and basically started his career.

El Enganche, el 10 Clásico, is only dead in european Football. Diniz plays Ganso there, Bielsa in Chile and Argentina always played a classic 10.

Thanks for this, absolutely loved him as a player.

This is such a great watch man. Nice work

My favorite player ever. I’m happy to find some english coverage on this genius. I feel like most of Europe and the English speaking world don’t really know much about him. But in South America and Spain he is legendary. He doesn’t get enough credit: - The legendary “La 12” chanted his name after his incredible debut game (coming in for Maradona) - He was MotM with just 20 years in the club world cup final, in which Boca beat Real Madrid 2-1 in 2000. - After his unsuccessful time in Barcelona, he joined Villareal and guided the club into their most successful period in history, becoming their biggest icon. - He returned to Boca in 2007 and had one of the most legendary performances ever being crucial to win the Libertadores(last one Boca won), scoring or assisting in every phase and scoring an incredible goal in the final. Here in Argentina we say he won that Copa Libertadores “by himself”. -After disputes with Boca’s president, he went to second division Argentinos Junior and guided them to promotion, and the just peaced off as a legend of three clubs (Boca, Villareal, Argentinos Jrs) - Also he did have some incredible performances for Argentina, mainly in Copa America games or WC Qualifiers.

Players like Riquelme, Ronaldhino, and zidane brought magic to the sport. That magic has been lost. Now Every-time I see a game all I see is tap in goals.

I've often thought to myself "I miss Riquelme". That's the highest praise I can give to any footballer.

Great video. My beef with modern football is how robotic it is. That's why players like Messi bring so much joy.

Here in argentina we use to said "la pelota siempre al 10" that translates as "the ball always pass it to the 10". Meaning that if you doubt, pass it to the 10. Van Gaal is so rigid, and i believe so mistaken, that he said messi won't play in his team. He won't use the best player in the history. What a ridiculous coach. He is not militaristic, he is so lazy as a couch that he can't think of a system adapted to the quality of the players in his team.

I always thoight Riquelme should have started in that 2010 Argentina squad. Playing 2010 Messi as the enganche was very tempting because of all the talent that they had in attack (Milito, Aguero, Higuain, Tevez) but was a mistake he was unbeatable from the wing at that time. Riquelme feeding Messi would have been so beautiful. And effective!

Zidane's last game with real madrid was vs villareal and zidane waited for him to exchange jerseys...that's respect

Dude! Your channel has grown a lot in the past months. Very glad to see that, you do an amazing job. That being said pleeease talk about LAMINE YAMAL I'm still shaking from that Gamper game omg.

I'm from Argentina and never heard about la Nuestra, the name for that kind of football is Potrero. A potrero is a football field in a very poor condition, because there is where you develop the technique and skills that you can not learn in an academy. Nobody could take the ball from Roman, unstoppable

I wonder where do concepts like la nuestra and jogo bonito come from, because that's certainly not how Argentines and Brazilians call their respective football styles.

Thanks for bringing this great video, just subscribed 👍

Excellent summary once again. Love your word choices, interpretation, and philosophical bent.

It’s interesting of van Gaal to allow Muller his freedom, the same coach that had notorious feuds with Riquelme and Rivaldo about that same freedom on the field. I keep thinking if that’s van Gaal evolving his way of seeing the game or if it’s the presumption that Muller has tactical understanding whereas the other two are “just instinctual”. There’s a third alternative that meddles with the other two: just plain racism against south americans.

I hope to see another generational player in my life time

i am a real madrid, and portugal fan and i rarely see you covering them, but still you are my favourite analyst, and i love learning more about argentina and barcelona from your videos.

Peak channel. Great pronuntiation, massive knowledge. 10/10

Love this video love riquelme he’s a beautiful player he’s a legend he could have do more in Europe but don’t get it twisted he’s arguably a bigger legend in South American football than maradona

My favorite player of all times 💙

I'm amazed by your content. I genuinely believe this is one of the best football channels on RU-vid

Great video!

The problem with Riquelmie is that he plays in such a specialist position he will fail unless he meets a coaches that want to deploy that role. Maybe if he landed with someone like Ancelotti he would have suceeded at a bigger club.

You see for me as a tactics enthusiast, it's a bit hard centralizing myself to the polarizing sides of football; It's just hard, boxing myself to one side. I guess it's because deep down I identify as a Constructivist & Adaptivist. I think coaches who're dogmatic out of function (can't blame em, they've achieved that way) will unalign with players & vice versa. I see the benefits of a system, but I'm of the firm opinion that when you've some really special talent you build around them; less of Einstein, more Picasso. Essentially, specializations come out of specialities and specialities out of special people or circumstances. Life sometimes imbalances things, what if you've a special child eg Jesus/Mohammed, a special lover, etc. Your home changes eventually, same as your relationship worldview. The key concept for both parties is Compromise; not the one that devalues but the one were both parties lose something (intrinsically). I think Pep UNCONSCIOUSLY has done this across his 2/3 clubs UCL Team philosophy; At Barca it was Messi At City it's Halaand Between Bayern-City(pre Halaand) it was all sort of systemic evolutions that emphasized the role of the wingers but Lewandowski banged in more goals and at City it was different players filling in the gap. Defunct roles will keep making it's way back as longs as there're coaches & fans that understands these players.

Brooooo !!! This is the best youtube channel rn!! /. 🔥

Thanks you very good video 👍

Great vid The Purist Football, I very much enjoy your content

Absolutely brilliant analysis. 👏

I love this philosophy and understanding of these different players! Thank you very

Great ideas explored in this vid!

Great work lovey it

Excellent video! Riquelme is one of my favorite players ever. He was able to nugmet anything with two legs.

Thanks for the video, good somebody remembers good ole Riquelme, I very much liked his style how the orchestrated the game at Barça and Villareal.

What a great video

A lot of it applies to James Rodriguez & Isco (but not hazard) not succeeding @ Real Madrid but Gareth Bale cementing his place in the Hall of Fame with 2 legendary goals in 2 finals. His goal in the Copa Del rey and second winner in the CL are worth Puskas Awards. They were both decisive. Bale was well-loved by more military like José or more counter-attacking like Ancelotti. It's crazy to think Zidane's position doesn't exist anymore and even has a coach, hasn't really tried to bring it back. This is what James thought he'd get when he landed in Madrid.

subbed. i love futbol info

Great content as always.

So many topics and things to talk about that I don't really know what to say... yet, I'll only take the "enganche" position (or "hook"). Riquelme was exceptionally good in that role because he had one specific ability no other had: vision. He could see a teamate from across the field as if he was reading a book. However, his position did not "die"... it only "mutated". If you paid attention to Qatar's world cup last year you'd be able to see Messi pretty much playing with a role similar to what Riquelme was in his time. Only difference is that Messi was always switching positions and circling around the rival's zone, but still always reading his colleagues moves and passing between lines with extreme finesse. A good example is the opening goal from Argentina against Netherlands: Messi fulfills that role of passer between lines as Riquelme used to do way before. That is the way I see it. Nowadays, many players cover almost the same role, but at the same time other ones such as wing, center or even contention midfielders. If you want some good examples of that, take a look at Alexis McAllister or Leandro Paredes playstyles since both used to play initially in the same position as Riquelme when they started on their debut, but today they play mostly in the inner side of the pitch and even acting as defensive midfielders in some cases (specially Paredes). That's my analysis. My apologies for making it so long and thanks for the great video! Leaving my like and following for future ones. Cheers!

Pay attention to Riquelme's part in that famous Argentina goal in the 2006 World Cup. The Argies aren't really getting anywhere, but two or 3 quick touches by him in tight areas is the thing that slowly pulls the opposition shape apart and allows that move be finished off with a goal. What Riquelme does is momentary, blink and you'll miss it stuff, but take it out and there's no goal at the end of it.

Nice video. You had me at Riquelme.

Pure genius 👏👏 wonderful content

Absolutely great video. Keep 'em comin'. I am more of the opinion that 'football is still football' ..What I mean is even within those militarized systems, moments of creativity, imagination and magic are still very useful tools...to the sense that they are actually within and part of the overall system