I experienced this recently as I'm a PhD new grad and ended up going to one of the big HFT companies over Google where I had interned twice. I don't think Google is getting top talent anymore. Their recruitment process alone is so shit, anyone with a strong competing offer is likely to chose that competing offer.
Quant can possibly pay more due to two main reasons: hedge funds have way less employees than big tech so can pay more, and quant traders work way more hours. Simple.
In my opinion, more hours has nothing to do with pay when you aren’t paid hourly. More so the average quant trader will make the firm more money than the average software engineer. Your first point is valid though. As I mentioned many firms run lean.
@@CodingJesus Every job, except from any executive position is essentially paid hourly even if not directly said. If a quant worked 30 hours a week, they wouldn't be able to provide as much value and hence would be paid less.
@@McFlashh at some prop shops, you have to "make your 5 years of salary" within a few months of joining, else you get cut. not necessarily finding an alpha, it could be a code change that reduces execution costs. Once you do that, your hours go back to normal and you have flexibility to do research at your own pace. youre also forgetting, if you work an extra 10 hours a week, but retire 20 years before everyone, sure your hourly sucks, but you escape the rats race early lol
There are definitely pros, but also cons, of 4-year-vesting RSU grants. If the stock tanks, your comp tanks. If the stock appreciates, then, you have the good problem of “golden handcuffs.” You can get complaints in either case 😂. This may be why many of the newer “big tech” companies (Stripe, Lyft, …) tend to have 1-year grants, which do tend to be more similar to the base + signing + end of year bonus in quant trading.
I work at a FAANG company, stock is part of my total comp (vested over 4 years as you stated). In the case of my company, when the stock is doing well, the annual salary adjustments will be lower. If the stock drops, you can expect a higher raise in your base salary. I feel like the total comp will converge to the same amount regardless of how the stock is doing which isn't great
the thing is i feel like the skillset quants traders have is very specific which makes it harder to find talent which meets the requirment and also would prevent people from picking it up for fear of pigeonholing themselves if they cant get a job in it.
I didn't know CS would be more rigorous in trading than in big tech. It would be an interesting video to expand on this. I want to understand why that is 🤔
I don’t think it’s more rigorous per se but different skill set. Software engineering in big tech you need solid distributed systems, api design, large scale software systems development skills. Software engineering at HFT you need very strong low level C/C++, computer systems/architecture (solid understanding of cache hierarchy, concurrency, bits and bytes, and even assembly).
The quant researchers in india, are hired having math olympiad on their resumes, or phd or even double phds ,actually quant word should not be used with traders because they are just people with stem degrees, it should only be used for researchers
Very informative content, have been watching you for a while now. could you do a video on hedge funds and asset management next ? Or bring in someone from these areas to discuss the necessary skillset and the roles they hire for and how to get into it
the reason why youre not quite on target about this is that most big tech companies language is in Java and HFT/ quant trading/prop trading mostly hire C++ developers and are not willing to take a person who does not have experience in C++. though some some big tech employees do work in C++.
@@CodingJesus right but you’ll need prior experience for those roles. From big tech, HFT look for C++ developers (or some back office stuff but not that desirable) but that’s just from what I’ve seen
@leetcodewhitebelt those are quant roles, not dev. Python is preferred for research and trading because it allows for fast iteration. There will invariably be heaps of Java, C++ and KDB on the backend.
The cash cows remain the traders, they are the bread and butter of any trading firm. Would it be fair to say that shifting from SWE from a big tech to QD would imply losing your importance/status in the org? How are quant firms treating their devs vs their traders?
Quant devs play second fiddle; they are in a service and support function. For the most part, they do not generate revenue. Quant researchers are revenue generating and in quant-driven funds even more so than traders, whose role is more ops/supervisory.
Unless its a top tier firm like Citadel, IMC, Optiver, Headlands, DRW, JS, Jump, etc... SWE/QD at quant firms is still seen as a cost center unfortunately. First class citizens are the quant researchers/traders (although these days quant funds do not need traders).
I think you mean was. The industry has been around so long that it takes tremendous amount of capital to compete. Even you stated it previously how you have to specialize in one niche area.
Statistics, financial mathematics, quantitative economic , or just math what should I go for to land a job later on ( I’m scared that math and statistics will be boring af )
@@Striver11 but what do you think is the best ? Because I want to also pursue a master and work while doing that (I’m a frontend engineer rn). But I don’t want to overload everything by picking the hardest of them I just want to break into the quantitative realm doesn’t really matter if it’s a analyst or developer or trader
@@noeljonah7248 if you want to become quant developer then computer science is the best way to go. Quant dev is also easier to break in comparison to quant trading. For quant researchers you need a PhD or at least a master in financial engineering.
How you compare both industry is mostly correct, but it seems you are not taking into account real demand for work. Quant industry is very small comparing to big tech, and I don't think it will grow a lot.
Ditto. How many SWEs do you need in HFT to build a LL trading system? Essentially it’s just order routing, market data, risk system, and possibly GUIs…not too much work for 1 seasoned dev…
What is your definition of "big tech" here? Is the claim "quant will become big tech" meaning "quant will surpass big tech in popularity?" If yes, this has already happened. Any serious cs undergrad knows about and would always take Jane over apple. It's just that there are about 3000 swe positions that pay this well (more than 300k new grad) - not enough to share.
Yeah. I’m not saying Jane will hire as many people as Apple. What I’m saying is that it will attract more of the top talent. That’s what I laid out at the very beginning of the video.
@@CodingJesus But the demand for this is limited by the fact that the vast vast majority of people don't get these roles (and won't even know somebody who has these roles). A C-suite executive position is also not "the next big tech."
@@CodingJesus Very informative content, have been watching you for a while now. could you do a video on hedge funds and asset management next ? Or bring in someone from these areas to discuss the necessary skillset and roles they hire for and how to get into it
Have to disagree on this one CJ. Hedge funds/prop shops will never hire 10s of thousands of developers a year. Quant shops have a lean head count comparatively. Big quant firms are very very selective and often ‘shop’ candidates from Target schools whereas Big tech companies are flexible in that regard. Also, FAANGs are sitting on hundreds of billions in cash and trillions in valuations making hiring volume greater. Plus, the top tier quant firms like Citadel, optiver, HRT, SIG, DRW etc. are much harder to get into compared to FAANG.
I never made the claim that they will hire tens of thousands of software engineers. In fact, I stated that they run lean. I made the claim that they will attract more talent than Big Tech does.
Your calendly description seems a bit outdated with "While I haven't produced a RU-vid video in a while, I am still working with clients looking to break into quantitative trading."
Trading is a losing proposition, therefore pretend to hire talents to impress investors, then get that OPM..Make sure to cash in your chips before your "quant firm" crashes, or when you client start demanding results
Dear our lord and saviour Coding Jesus, I have recently acquired myself a quant internship thanks to your guidance! From here, what should I do to maximise my chances of receiving a return offer/grad role?
Bro please bring a series on coding sytemslike navinder sarao the hft crash trader i am freelance RU-vid seo consultant in upwork it will give a boost as many people as interested on that side chase orders cancel if open order coding.
Another factor is job security. Yes there are layoffs in big tech but there are many more reasons why you might get cut as a quant dev. For example, if you're attached to a desk that performs poorly, you can be cut along with the PM. A huge gotcha is that you can be paid a cash sign on bonus, then cut, which exercises a clause meaning you have to repay the pre-tax sign on from your post-tax income
Total bs ... salaries are not what they seem and they have clawback clauses plus cost splits what are your smoking . If you get a 500 base offer from a quant firm its only a advance you still have to make it if you do not its clawed back
Okay trtr316, let me give you an example. If you get a compensation package in Quant for 400K for example, it’s most likely 200K base (no clawback there). A sign-on bonus of 50K (you can keep it after 3 months, if you leave within 3 months you have to pay it back). An end of the year bonus (no-clawback) of 150K. Compare this to 5 year vesting schedules in Big Tech.
@@CodingJesus couldnt care less about " big tech" been in mm game since you were in nappies and run other shops compatible and faster than citadel what base your harping on about is rubbish. Software engineers are a dime a dozen
Can you explain why almost all quant mutual funds underperform or don't beat the market? Seems quant trading isn't useful, yet companies keep hiring them, and it's highly competitive. Seems like a paradox.
I have a question I’m currently at school and I’m taking Math A level but I didn’t choose CS A level. In what way should I find a way to get CS certification in order to become a quant trader.
