Obi Wan: "Anakin, it's obvious that Rey is a Mary Sue!" Anakin: "But from my point of view she is a strong independent woman!" Obi Wan: "WELL THEN YOU ARE LOST!"
When Ahsoka, an actual strong female character who is loved by the fans, faced a trained sith for the first time, she lasted about 2 seconds and only survived because the sith was hoping to get information from her. Actually, having Rey be the padawan of Ahsoka could've been a great idea, if it were implemented properly.
Screw you. You just reminded me of how good star wars was right before the disney acquisition of it. How dare you bring up good writing and characters 😂
SJWs: y'all just hate Rey cause she's female! Rest of us: But we love Ahsoka, a strong female character. SJWs: Uh... beep booop... does not compute... *tyres squeal off in the distance*
@non grata If people love her only because of her outfit and her attitude, everyone would've loved her from the beginning. But they didn't. When she first showed up, the fanbase was divided, with most people either not caring or hating her. Whatever your thoughts are on her outfit, she earned the love of the fanbase because of, and you even mentioned it in your comment, *character development*. Despite her controversial early appearance and her questionable outfit, she became a beloved character because she was written to be a *good* character. Rey never earned any of that because she was written to be a beloved character first without going through the work to get it.
Even Anakin, literaly the chosen one, created by the force itself, lost to dooku on geonosis. 1. he got his hand cut off 2. he had obiwan (who had 30-something years of training) to help him 3. he´s alredy been training for 10 years. 4. both Anakin and Obiwan would have died if Yoda hadn´t saved the day. 5. even with yoda´s help dooku escaped. Why? Because Dooku was one of the best lightsaber duelists in the history of the jedi, a match for grandmaster yoda, and simply meeting the chosen one doesn´t turn him into a clumsy padawan overnight.
I agree with pretty much everything being said although I don't think Count Dooku is a match for Yoda as he still had to flee from said encounter and used to force to preoccupie Yoda with saving Obi wan and Anakin.
My favorite mary sue moment is when shes swimming in the second movie. They made it a point in the first movie to have Rey remark about how green the planet they visit is. That would signify that she has grown up her entire life in a desert, never seeing a forest or large bodies of water. Then when she takes a swim, I'm thinking when did she learn to swim?
Don't forget EXPERTLY piloting that watercraft, ON THE VERY FIRST TRY, even though the seas were so violent that even the hyper-experienced natives said they would have to wait until better conditions prevailed.
@@mads4487 In the wrong hands, Force Powers can come in VERY handy ***Palpatine waves hand in front of woman's face and points down to his steak and potatoes*** "These ARE the droids you're looking for..." ;)
If Luke were as big a Mary Sue as Rey is he would have pulled the X-Wing straight out of the swamp water on first try and Yoda would have gaped and marveled about how he has nothing else to teach Luke because there's nothing he knows that isn't what Luke already possesses. Luke would then go on his merry way to Bespin and have Vader for breakfast, and Vader would beg Luke to ally with him instead of threatening Luke at swordpoint to join him. I don't stereotype easily but it's apparent how sequel thumpers are either braindead individuals who value agenda more than good storytelling (which makes them ill-fitted for judging what kind of story is good and what is not--Dunning-Kruger effect is a thing), or naive people who has never come into contact with a single good story.
庫倫亞利克 and not to mention during the final battle against palpatine it was not actually Luke that defeated him. It was Vader who was still much stronger then Luke. If it was Rey, Vader would have already died at the Death Star, and would defeat (original) palpatine in a few seconds.
I'm not trying to start anything, but it's because Leia and Ahsoka had good character arcs and development that made us root for them and love them. They failed a lot and were knocked down a lot, having tons of crap thrown their way and losing many friends and loved ones, but they were able to eventually rise above all of that and fight back, and win. It's a reality in life that we never succeed in life on the first attempt. Sometimes you have to fail in order to eventually succeed, and that's why we love Ahsoka and Leia. Because they failed a number of times, but eventually succeeded in the end, whereas Rey was someone who always succeeded on the first attempt. I get in movies there has to be suspension of disbelief, but you also need to have realism as well.
It bugged me when Han died and Leia went to hug Rey instead of Chewie when Rey and Leia have never met before and not to mention that Han and Chewie have been best friends since however long and Rey knew Han for a couple hours. Shes just awesome.
It's that sort of thing that lead people to belive that Rey was going to be a Solo or Skywalker by birth-- because then maybe Leia recognized her, and then hugging her makes sense. But the storyline didn't go that way.
I will absolutely talk shit to people I feel deserve it. Most of the cast are entirely on-board with the message. The only one I feel bad for is Boyega. The idea of a defected storm trooper was super cool and he was wasted to appease racist-ass China
@TheNuclearZomber Palpatine himself mastered all forms of lightsaber combat and had to train for YEARS before killing his master to become the most powerful sith.
People: "fuck luke hes such a gary stu" Luke: *loses and gets his hand cut off in his only lightsaber fight in his first two films* People: "im gonna pretend i didnt see that"
@To Serve And Correct Nope, this was already covered, by Literature Devil himself. Some writers attempt to try and hide the fact that their character is a Mary Sue character, by either giving them fake flaws, or a fake struggle. Rey falls into that category.
"She's so good in the force because she's a Palpatine..." That's like me finding out I'm the son of Tom Brady and being able to win a Superbowl without knowing why.
@@joshtoncray9882 I had argument that Re is also good at lightsabers as she was melee fighter b4 SW. Yep, but you know, it isn't like "armed melee" is oe skill you ca exp on any weapon and you will master all. Actually you may be specialized in one type of knife and suck at others (see: kukri vs. push-dagger vs. kerambit vs. dagger*). Staff and lightsaber need completely different stance and fighting style as blocking, attacks etc. are not even slightly same. Darth Maul's lightstaff would be more easy for Rey if she understood that it isn't blunt weapon anymore, but one-handed lightsaber? Not.
A good rebuttal to that if they aren't so far up their ass is Anakin Himself. He didn't immediately become so powerful just because a character said so he had training, a journey.
It might have been really interesting to have Finn as a deuteragonist like Zuko in AtLA. Have his own hero's journey to learn how to use his skills in the right way and square the circle between a soldier's duty and a thinking being's morality. Then it all comes together in Episode IX - The Duel of the Fates with Rey confronting the dark side of the Force and Finn leading the Resistance uprising on Coruscant, confronting the dark side of being a soldier (obedience without conscience).
Rey's first fight: defeated Kylo despite never wielding a lightsaber in her life, and never trained Luke's first fight: trained for a few weeks at most, gets his ass kicked in his first fight with Darth Vader
Assuming a badass Jedihunter who killed many jedi and even some masters is comparible to someone who doesn't have that much of a portfolio when it comes to other force users.....
@@m2cscream Of course she's gonna say that, you have to understand that Daisy was working as a bartender before these movies, Being casted as Rey gave her the big break and opportunity she always wanted and it's not fair for you to think that Daisy is gonna blast the role that made her career and changed her life.
@@user-qk3nq6cg7r Giving criticism isn't blasting something, even if it's the character you're playing. Either Disney paid her to not shit talk Rey (because, let's be honest, that's likely) or she just legitimately doesn't understand how character writing works. Though either way, I don't really have qualms with the actor, I just ... Don't think she's a good actor .. Either that or she got poor direction
@@StardustCorvid Here's the thing, how many actors/actresses have critiqued the characters they were playing, especially the ones that made their career, If Daisy called Rey a Mary Sue, that would cause huge controversy for Disney directors and producers, so it makes sense that she wouldn't say that, Disney isn't exactly known for tolerance of certain opinions they don't agree with if it affects their income.
Luke Skywalker: Fights a sith lord for the first time >Loses hand >Thrown down a garbage chute >Almost dies, needed to be rescued. Anakin Skywalker: Fights a Sith lord for the first time >Loses hand >Thrown into a pile of scrap metal unconscious > Obi Wan is also defeated, MASTER YODA steps in Rey: Fights sith lord for the first time >wInZ
@@SteveSmith-ty8ko Funny thing is. Would that not be pain and would anger him. And what fuels a Sith power oh right fucking pain and anger. So he should even more be able to defeat her.
People are saying Rey learned how to fight and use the force because of the dyad that was created when kylo interrogated her and she got his knowledge, that just proves she’s a Mary Sue since she magically received the power everyone else took years to master (the plot bending to her) just because she’s “awesome”
also people saying that she knows how to fight with a lightsaber because she used a staff, um no a staff and lightsaber are different. The beam or whatever the lightsaber makes is weightless or at least very light ( not a hardcore star wars fan, just watch the star war videos) while a staff that is intact can weigh a bit and if we were to use a double-bladed lightsaber to give to Rey instead, then she would die from swinging it too hard and if we gave her just a normal lightsaber then she would have to learn how to use the thing and not just brute force it. Also how tf does Rey win against Kylo, yes he was injured but sith become stronger with pain meaning that at least Kylo would give Rey a hard time and probably win.
@@JustAguy006 its like a newbie pick a sword and becomes *THE GREATEST SWORDSMAN THAT EVER LIVED* comparing a lightsaber with a staff is stupid heck in medieval times the easiest weapon to learn is a mace it needs no edge alignement just strike with it even if you miss the metal part you still do damage since its body part is usulay enforced wood with metal or actual metal so yes compering swords with staffs is bs to me
If the only explanation you have for why a character does what she does comes from a 3rd act retcon and the introduction of something that exists in the universe only for her... yeah, that just makes her a worse Mary Sue
to be honest kylo feels more like the main character of the story 1. he follows the whole "skywalker saga" thing 2. he has flaws 3. he has an arc, even if its a redemption arc
Kylo and Finn would have been excellent protagonistic foils: The storm trooper born into evil who turned good, and the man born to the purest Jedis turned Sith
I sort of don't mind that she is good at repairing things.. She has been scavenging space ship parts all her life. But to be better than Chewie, who has flown the ship for decades, no way. But, she's also the best shot, best pilot, best Jedi, best everything. But I guess that's because she is just awesome.
See, in my experience a guy who runs a junkyard usually *is* a skilled mechanic. I've had some serious help from four different junk/scrap yard owners in how to keep my vehicle running... as well as being able to find less expensive or alternate parts that can work just as well as the original manufacturer's version
@@teabearchurchill5600 does Rey RUN the junkyard? Or is she the peon employee who rips parts out? Do you think the average car demo employee could repair a Maserati better than a Maserati mechanic who built his own car and serviced it himself for decades?
1) *Losing arms is inconsequential, especially when limbs are so easily and quickly replaced throughout the series* 2) *Rey is in no physical danger because she has no opponent.* *Kylo has no intention of **_ever_** hurting her. His only goal in all three movies is to woo her* to his side. In every fight, she is the aggressor. She attacks and he parries her blows all while making his pitch to be together. She insults him and he calmly asks questions. He remains open and curious about her while she struggles to get rid of him. There is no opportunity in this kind of story for cutting off limbs and such. 3) *Rey's struggle is internal and psychological not physical. Therein lies the only threat Kylo poses to her* - that she will be seduced to the darkside, because she doesn't know who she is.
@@politereminder6284 So her struggle is basically like Luke's but done in a cringer and ass backwards fashion. There's no point for her fear of falling to the dark side as she always taps into the dark side, yet comes out of it no different. It's literally a pointless endeavor.
I once saw someone say that the Mary Sues are at their core liars. That is Rey's big problem. She is introduced into the story as a downtrodden nobody, naive and good-hearted but inexperienced in war and in the force. By all Star Wars logic and common sense, she should end up in big trouble on her quest, she should be in way over her head and should not be able to survive without a lot of help. Being an underdog is often what helps us sympathize with protagonists. But the underdog introduction is one big lie as Rey handles everything with no problem, never being put in a situation that she can't get out of by herself just fine. Even being captured alone on a planet full of stormtroopers and kylo rens doesn't slow her down. That's the difference to characters like Dream and Superman. Their stories do not lie about who they are. We know that they are experienced, powerful, confident and all around pretty great. But the stories are aware of that fact, so they make us sympathize with the characters in other ways, by having them face big moral choices, or exploring the burden of their tremendous responsibilities or by finding their vulnerable points.
I remember reading a manga (or a light novel, can't say) a while ago, when I wasn't aware of any of that bs and thought it was useless, but now I regret not remembering its name. It explored the idea of the Mary Sue by presenting her as a goddess pretending to be humans, and using her supernatural powers to force people to like her and/or have an unexplainable obsession towards her. She was using her powers to force people with already established skills and relationships to throw everything in her favor and ostracized those who didn't fall for it. Anyone who was disagreeing with her or antagonized her in any way was castigated by the other characters and was seen as mean, stupid and jealous. Old, wise, skilled, experimented characters (the setting was that she introduced later in an already established story) were all bested by her and couldn't stop showering her in praise, to the point that she even imparted lessons to them, regardless of what happened before her arrival. And the most meta part: whenever any character questioned how comes she is that capable of everything or even asked about concrete elements of her story, life and experience, she would violently recoil and dismiss the interrogation...
@Haku infinite That is a great point, in superman's world there are different rules but he is just as prone to making mistakes as we are and with huge stakes.
very good point. if the story (and by extension the author) were simply self aware that the character is a mary sue it would already change things drastically and make the character NOT a mary sue. if rey were introduced as a perfect character that can do anything and the other characters actually treated her as such , THIS would make a more better and honest scenario because we could create a different kind of conflict where the other characters could lump all the work and expectations on rey because they think they can depend on her for everything which can create problems like, like crushing rey with too much work and expectations , or making Rey not know how to work well with others or not being able to trust others because she's used to doing everything alone and used to the idea that she's just better at things than everyone else. hence making her too hard headed and unable to work well in teams. This story premise alone would already make rey NOT a mary sue because there's actually real struggle but its more internal.
"KyLO waS InJUrED thATS wHY ReY Won!!" MEANWHILE Darth Vader: *Burns to death and loses 60% of his body, is in constant physical and emotional pain, doesn't even have real hands anymore, uses the raw power of the force to overcome his physical shortcomings*
@@michaelestrada1972 short answer: They do. Long answer: Pain and anger fuel the dark side and those raw emotions make them more dangerous, if they know how to use it. Mauls fighting prowess is fueled by rage. Vader's power by pain and self loathing. Kylo...teen angst, I guess. Hes got a "nobody loves" complex.
You mean the same Darth Vader that was bested by Luke in Episode 4 because Han had come in to help Luke? That Darth Vader? The best Star Pilot in the galaxy?
Haku infinite that argument would work if Vader was normal. Remember, in episode 1 Vader was attacking hundreds of different droid fighters and came out without a hint of damage to his ship. Han didn’t even immediately attack Vader, he attacked the guy next to Vader, which would give him enough time to react. Also, Vader could have sensed Han through the force. Also also, I haven’t even brought up some of Anakin’s feats in the clone wars. I could keep going, but I don’t have all day.
Kennedy was so concerned with showcasing a strong, independent woman in Star Wars (as if we hadn’t already seen that...Leia) that she forgot that they’re supposed to tell a convincing story.
And Leia was already a badass by any metric. Even when Luke first gets into her cell, she thinks he is just a stormtrooper, and goes off, insulting him. She also was quick on her feet when her ship was being attacked, and even stood up to Vader. And that is all before becoming an essential leader of the resistance.
One thing not mentioned is that Luke's first attack in an x-wing almost resulted in his death. I think it's an important moment for him not to be instantly awesome at piloting a ship that he'd never flown.
Rey’s gender directly impacts her negatively as a character. Here’s why: Luke was constantly under threat of physical harm and death, and he gets his ass whipped consistently throughout the OT. You feared for him, and related to him, because the movies showed you clearly that the Force didn’t make him a deity. Dude got his hand chopped off, FFS. Rey is never really going to be physically harmed because she is a girl. Disney is NOT going to release a movie where the female lead is maimed and beaten like Luke was. Kylo never punches her right in the face, never draws blood, never Force chokes her, never physically hurts her. He uses the Force to restrain her in TFA, but she is never assaulted and never suffers lasting wounds the way Kylo does with the scar on his face. He is never fighting her at full strength with absolute intent to KILL her. Hell, he’s flirting with her throughout TLJ. Imagine the uproar had it been Rey who had her back carved up by the lightsaber instead of Finn. Imagine them trying to redeem Kylo after he beats the shit out of a girl. No way. Kill Han? Whatever. Hit a girl? He’s irredeemable. If she’s never in any real danger, I can’t fear for her.
Should’ve battered her around. I mean they still caused harm to Leia. Only it was an emotional pain and humiliation. The destruction of her home planet and being forced to wear a skimpy slave outfit and leered at. They could’ve easily caused harm to Rey without physical harm such as leering and perverse actions of the fat guy. It would act as a damage to her pride by making her feel humiliated. Which could create a self-confidence issue. Instead we get an impulsive, aggressive and arrogant character that you can’t really root for because she complains about everything and has no patience.
@@hermaeusmora2945 dungeon master. Its a DnD term. The dm runs the game, controls the world, npcs, basically the god of the game. The saying comes from the fact that in the early days ( and even nowadays) being the dm's girlfreind basically means you succeed at everything and get wverything you want.
@Tom Tom The "clones of Jango" are actually clone troopers that were replaced after order 66.. The stormtroopers in Galactic Empire and First Order were simple people hired from random planets.
Rey doesn’t even deserved to mentioned in the same sentence as Wall-E unless that sentence is: “WALL-E is one of the greatest protagonists in the history of film and REY is one of the worst.”
Not only Rey Skywalker is the most powerful duelist and fighter. Obviously the most powerful force user with unmatched potential too. She is also the best starship captain, no can’t compete at her level and match her natural talent and skills. Why do people underrates Rey Skywalker for no good reason, although she is the greatest character and part of the masterpiece of the sequel trilogy? Rey Skywalker is in fact the greatest Skywalker, but also the greatest and also the most powerful Star Wars character, in general and also in terms of writing. Rey is also considered to be one of the most powerful character in fiction, some experts say she is levels above the One Above All. Her character’s writing and arc are considered to be one of the greatest outside of Star Wars, but also in cinema or all of stories. She is considered to be one of the greatest and most iconic characters in cinema, even more iconic than Darth Vader by infinite times which makes Rey Skywalker the most iconic Star Wars character and Disney princess. Although according to experts that she’s the most powerful character and not only in Star Wars, but in fiction, her insane struggles and greatest upbringing or backstory to the most tragic character that would make any famous and well-known Ancient Greek story-tellers cry and admit their greatest tragic stories, or story as a whole in general are nothing compared to the story of Rey Skywalker (more difficult than the rest of Star Wars characters and rest of characters in all of fiction) makes her the most relatable character and hardships to become a Jedi is insanely difficult and especially trying to resist the dark side. Rey Skywalker’s potential is greater than Anakin’s power and full potential. She is not only the greatest leader and candidate for woman empowerment, she is the only embodiment for it. Instead of fighting who is the best and greatest character in Star Wars. Or also the greatest trilogy in Star Wars. Let’s all admit and say the real truth and reality, Rey Skywalker is in fact the greatest masterpiece of a character in Star Wars and the sequel trilogy has the greatest movies in Star Wars. Also, the sequel trilogy in Star Wars are the greatest trilogy in all of cinema, and considered to be greater than the Christopher Nolan’s Dark Knight trilogy and the Lord of the Rings trilogy. Even the experts and the best or legendary directors such as George Lucas, Peter Jackson, James Cameron, Martin Scorsese, Francis Ford Coppola and etc considers the all the three movies of the sequel trilogy in Star Wars are the greatest movies in history. Please no more fighting and bashing other characters, especially Rey Skywalker to say your favorite character is the best, especially Darth Vader or Anakin Skywalker whom Rey Skywalker the real GOAT is infinite times better as a character in writing and relatable, and also more powerful.
Probably. He is Rey in a lot of ways, but with a more interesting backstory and actually has a stake in this new trilogy's plot due to the fact that he lived with and trained with all the people he's in direct conflict with.
i thought they might have been able to salvage the series with the 2nd Rey movie, only if she had accepted kylo rens offer to join him, that could have been a great twist and set us up for potentially Grey Knights who embrace both light and dark side. instead she declined his offer and were stuck with this garbage....
"Kylo suspends a blaster bolt in mid air in the intro" Cool, this guy is going to be awesome. And the movie went downhill from there and proved me wrong.
my rewrite of Luke in the TLJ (by changing as little as possible of the film) has Luke doing the same with ATAT walkers but with all the blasters fired at him, instead of force ghost and him dying
@@darko-man8549 It might as well be true now. Luke's death is now meaningless because he basically acts as if he's alive while a force ghost. He seriously might as well be alive.
Because Anakin actually: 1. Failed few times 2. Won race as kid AS HE HAD ILLEGAL HELP 3. Piloted ship like an ace WITH DROID'S SUPPORT 4. Had to train in fighting Rey is pro at everything and won duel with very experienced fighter despite having literally no training in lightsabers. She was staff fighter. Fighting in staff is completely different sill than with sword. One is one-handed slashing/piercing weapon and other is 2-handed blunt weapon.
Also that's a lightsaber, nearly a completely different skillset than a sword even, not to mention a basic staff. She also had never connected with that lightsaber whereas Kylo had, so Kylo should have won.
If she stayed with staff as her main pain-dealing item her victory in said duel would be more plausible. Irl hevy staff jas big advantage over single sword in both reach and impact force + it has more ways to attack/defend with it. But no she had to have murder-flashlight for some reason and beat master of this weapon in 1v1 becouse yes...
@@michagruzewski5592 Ideal for her would be lightstaff or maybe lightsaber pike as both are more or less bladed variants of her trained weapon. For normal lightsaber she would require looooots of training to match any trained Jedi/Sith. And she was fighting let us see... Guy who managed to whip out whole bunch of Jedi and Darth Sidious, one of best dueler since Anakin was born. Sidous: 1. Matched Mace Windu 2. Matched Yoda 3. Won with Darth Maul and Savage same time, despite fact Darth Maul was good enough to kill Qui Gon... he's at least equally skilled as Jedi Masters at their best times and he lost against girl who grabbed fancy weapon stood in stance suggesting she was never in combat and slowly moved weapon from side to side few times as whole combat training. That's why fans hate political correctness and female heroines. It's not like we hate strong woman. I like MOST female characters I know. But they are written same like male ones. They have strong and weak points, they have character development... Rey is SJW-made character which means she is just like pseudo-feminist wet dream. She's good at everything and no filthy man had to teach her as she is good at everything due to being awesome as women are awesome. Damn, even prodigies aren't written like that. Saitama has better explanation to his superpowers.
@@Petaurista13 damn that wos a long paragraph for a RU-vid comment. Most of what you speak of i can confirm true all tho i personaly wouldn't gave Rey ANY lightsaber-like weapon. She fought with hevy blunt weapon as her primary self defence tool. Hevy two handed weapons are to some extent unaprecheated and underestimatet. Reach and heft of quaterstaff alow its user to simply overpower sword users. As long as staff Rey is using would be made of material uncuttable by lightsaber Kylo would have to either dodge every blow or defend himself with force powers alone becouse momentum behind (for example) overhead blow would definitely break gard of any sword user (especially lightsaber user) due to said sword's low weight and becouse of it relatively low stopping power. Lightsaber suffers even more as it lacks metal blade that would add mass. Concludeing if Rey attacked with her staff and Kylo just put his lightsaber in the staff's way he would propably end up with his own weapon several inches deep in his head. And pls don't compare Rey to Saitama. One Punch Man is comedy show and it clearly shows on how bizzare rules it's world operates. (NiBBa turned into a monster becouse he stuffed his ass with too much crab meat) The several layers of irony under wich OPM story is hidden only add salt to the injury when you finaly reach the conclusion that Sequel trilogy dont even deserve to be compared with OPM. For example Saitama is THE MIGHTIEST BEING IN THE UNIVERSE but that doesn't mean he is loved by everyone. He is instantly accused of cheating on preformance tests he is unrecognisable for most people and he lives on the edge of the poverty line for nearly entire season one. He has more character flaws than Entire main cast of Sequel trilogy has character traits. Please don't compare OPM to Sequel Trilogy. Don't insult good anime.
“She’s a woman living on her own! Of course she would know how to fight!” Would two desert thugs working in a shady junktown know how to fight? Would a trained Jedi turned to the dark side know how to fight? The answer is YES, a whole lot better than junk collector who’s spent her whole life alone!
@IAN HEINE I'm actually really confused they didn't give her a double bladed lightsaber. Pretty much all her Jakku skills are rather quickly dropped after being introduced to them, which makes them feel even more 'plot based'. Her being a scavenger doesn't come of use in the other movies. Her ability to pilot is only used early on and beyond a random mentioned in RoS to imply Rey is a better pilot than Poe (the pilot character wtf) might as well not exist. Her actual fighting experience with a staff is quickly dropped. She's even shown to be competent at swimming and with boats despite being from a desert planet. Pretty much the moment when Kylo tries to read her mind, her entire skillset seems to change to "i'm a jedi" and her previous character is gone. Luke's other skills took a backseat once he got to Yoda in empire, but until then were shown to be a continued asset, and is even how he scored the 'win' in the first movie.
And most people see him as a fake, he isn't adored by everyone. Yeah he has a few people who know his true strength but everyone else sees him as a phony and have little respect for the caped baldy. But everyone loves Ray
He doesn't become a hero for some shōnen reason either he just does it for fun even when he doesn't ever get to have fun since everyone goes down in one hit and his motivation for being a hero never changes I love that shit so much
Honestly One Punch Man takes a different direction that makes a compelling story using thier OP protagonist. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-yWktbuPKYWY.html
Nah, the FO is made of morons but the Resistance is downright evil (voluntary force Rose kills you if you try to leave. Blindly follow all orders etc.) so it's only natural to root for them.
I dont really buy the reason for the resistance to begin with. So the galactic empire was dismantled and the new republic is now the supreme power, yet in their infancy and beset with bureaucracy they arent able to defend themselves from the big scary First Order. Enough so that Princess Leia (who would be a major influential power for her role in defeating the Empire) would have to create a fringe rebel militia to fight on their behalf? Why on earth did the former rebel alliance, who are only a generation removed from their victory so pathetic militarily that they couldnt handle an upstart threat? There needed to be more backstory on how all of the political landscape happened. As it stands to me, the story as its explained gives a weak justification of rehashing the resistance being the plucky underdogs the Rebel Alliance were.
@@joeldykman7591 ikr? The whole story would have been better from Kylo's point of view leading a small but powerful group trying to take over the new Republic. That's what would actually make sense.
@@joeldykman7591 That might be my biggest issue with how the new trilogy handles the lore. The writers were too scared to do anything other than the same plucky underdog resistance against big scary organised military thing again, even though the New Republic should have been the organised military.
This shouldn't even be a discussion. Luke rarely has any victories when it comes to combat. Sure he blew up the DeathStar, helped take down an ATAT and defeated Vader in ROTJ. But those victories came through a lot personal growth and failure. The idea that Luke of all people needed to learn that failure was a good teacher is ridiculous. Overcoming failure is the story of Luke Skywalker's life. Rey on the other hand never failed a day in her life.
The people around her fail att everything, constantly. They all lose, throughout all the new movies. In a groupthink kind of way, having Rey be a part of all of these losers, she is also a failure. This is a major stretch, but I feel like this kind of thinking is how the writers think.
Not to mention that said loses were either minor or was through the assistance of others. Luke was hit during the attack of the first Death Star, albeit not seriously damaged. He would however have been shot down if it wasn't for this other squad mates. He wouldn't even have gotten close to the Death Star had it not been for the other pilots that gave their life. In that sense it creates the feeling of "It could've been anyone" who did the deed of blowing the space station up. Its also not entirely made clear if Vader lost on purpose or not, as he quite literately got up after his defeat like it was nothing. Even he didn't lose on purpose he did try to avoid killing Luke, which is already a handicap and Luke did train for some time in order to overcome his father. Ironically, you could argue this with the Kylo vs Rey fight as well, that Kylo didn't aim to kill Rey, therefore she had a handicap. Issue there is that Rey had no formal training to begin with. Meaning Kylo should've been able to toy with her as Vader did with Luke on Cloud City.
Rey defenders: " she can do all these incredible feats because she is strong with the force. She dont need training" Luke: " talent without training is nothing"
@EL JAY I'd like to add that Obi-wan didn't even have the talent. He literally became one of the best Jedi Master through sheer effort and determination.
@@xvesta1734 Effort and determination means nothing withouth an inch of talent, Obi was a talented individual with a dmm strong will and mind. His efforts payed off with his feats. But yeah, he was mostly a commoner with talent that climbed all the way up.
Not only Rey Skywalker is the most powerful duelist and fighter. Obviously the most powerful force user with unmatched potential too. She is also the best starship captain, no can’t compete at her level and match her natural talent and skills. Why do people underrates Rey Skywalker for no good reason, although she is the greatest character and part of the masterpiece of the sequel trilogy? Rey Skywalker is in fact the greatest Skywalker, but also the greatest and also the most powerful Star Wars character, in general and also in terms of writing. Rey is also considered to be one of the most powerful character in fiction, some experts say she is levels above the One Above All. Her character’s writing and arc are considered to be one of the greatest outside of Star Wars, but also in cinema or all of stories. She is considered to be one of the greatest and most iconic characters in cinema, even more iconic than Darth Vader by infinite times which makes Rey Skywalker the most iconic Star Wars character and Disney princess. Although according to experts that she’s the most powerful character and not only in Star Wars, but in fiction, her insane struggles and greatest upbringing or backstory to the most tragic character that would make any famous and well-known Ancient Greek story-tellers cry and admit their greatest tragic stories, or story as a whole in general are nothing compared to the story of Rey Skywalker (more difficult than the rest of Star Wars characters and rest of characters in all of fiction) makes her the most relatable character and hardships to become a Jedi is insanely difficult and especially trying to resist the dark side. Rey Skywalker’s potential is greater than Anakin’s power and full potential. She is not only the greatest leader and candidate for woman empowerment, she is the only embodiment for it. Instead of fighting who is the best and greatest character in Star Wars. Or also the greatest trilogy in Star Wars. Let’s all admit and say the real truth and reality, Rey Skywalker is in fact the greatest masterpiece of a character in Star Wars and the sequel trilogy has the greatest movies in Star Wars. Also, the sequel trilogy in Star Wars are the greatest trilogy in all of cinema, and considered to be greater than the Christopher Nolan’s Dark Knight trilogy and the Lord of the Rings trilogy. Even the experts and the best or legendary directors such as George Lucas, Peter Jackson, James Cameron, Martin Scorsese, Francis Ford Coppola and etc considers the all the three movies of the sequel trilogy in Star Wars are the greatest movies in history. Please no more fighting and bashing other characters, especially Rey Skywalker to say your favorite character is the best, especially Darth Vader or Anakin Skywalker whom Rey Skywalker the real GOAT is infinite times better as a character in writing and relatable, and also more powerful.
Literature Devil So I just binged my way though your whole catalogue last night excluding the Dr Alpha readings. I love your logic, your voice and your overall respectful attitude forwards both sides. I am not sure if you know what EFAP (Every Frame a Pause) is. But I would love to see you get on for a discussion with MauLer, Rags and god willing Of Rage and Writing.
I am bothered by the fact that there are jedi books, like at what point in Star Wars, before the force awakens, is paper actually used. I am like 95% sure that Lucas specifically omitted paper from the franchise as a way to do some world building.
just wanted to add anakin to the list of "not a mary sue" I have heard people say Anakin is a mary sue, because "he's the chosen one". Which sure, he is the chosen one, but he... -Fails to save his mother -Slaughters Sandpeople (Women and children included) -Falls to the dark side and becomes Vader -Wipes out the Jedi Temple -Shares blame on the death of his wife (the one thing which he wanted to protect at all cost) -gets defeated and left to die by Kenobi -Only survives because Sidious came in time to put him on life-support forever essentially.
His whole "bringing balance to the force" deal was actually a bout bringing ACTUAL balance by slaughtering enough jedis so that their numbers would match the ones of the siths. Like, his whole destiny was to commit to genocide, with half of the victims being kids
The thing is: Being a Chosen One isn't a indicator to a Mary Sue, its the call to the Hero's Journey. Learning that you, an average kid/slave/farmboy/whatever have a prophecy or destiny to do something grand is either going to jumpstart your journey with you setting out, or lead to the Refusal of the Call.
If anything, I thought Anakin was almost too anti-Sueish. They could’ve shown him being a bit more badass and competent at times without going into full on Sue territory. I guess it’s just hard to strike that balance.
true....gohan in dragonball was a gary stu but he had a character arc with piccolo and then on namek he was smart and tricky but also badass aggressive showing his kid side a little nd awesome when he had to be..then he took over the story ..he had an arc...but his power was deus ex machina from the author always cause its just easy
@@razkable Maybe the deus ex machina is true, if you are talking about the Buu saga, but if you are talking about the Cell saga then no, it wasn't a deus ex machina. Anyway, even the power up in the Buu saga didn't help, in fact it only made things worse so I wouldn't really call it a deus ex machina
@@razkable I don't know about that. He is Goku's son, and Goku has a natural growth in power along with the shit ton of training he does, so he still has that going for him.
As I've been saying for several years, the fundamental problem with the trilogy is that Luke should have been her mentor in 7, as intended in the Lucas treatment, but they kept Luke out so he didn't overshadow the new characters, and wanted Harrison Ford in the movie, knowing he would only agree if Han got killed off. So the biggest fails come from commercial decisions not story ones. Of course, I got called a racist, misogynist man baby for pointing this out, and was told the Rey is exactly like Luke
One simple answer: Lucas wanted to tell an interesting, fascinating story. Disney wanted Money as quick as possible after buying Lucasfilm. The first Movie needed more than 5 years develop, then there were gaps of three years between. Same with the prequels. Disney wanted to have three years after buying Lucasfilm a new star wars movie every year. And Michael Arndt, a very good writer indeed, got fired because he needed too long to write a good story. But a fascinating story needs time to be developed. But that's not at all what the producers were after.
Money and to show Blacks and women being main, awesome characters. But you know... awesome characters have flaws. Damn, Hellsing's Alucard had some flaws despite fact he was so OP that whole last part of anime was England trying to hold log enough for him to come than he flooded like all opponents but "bosses". Plus Alucard was powerful medieval (at least) vampire with ages of military experience. Rey is like characters in _Far Cr_y games. "Ok, I'm American young adult on trip with friends. BOOM! I have military-grade experience in any weapon and melee." But you know, in games it's usual and it's for fun reasons as gamer can't play 300 hours just because you would need to see how Dragonborn trained years to be skilled in combat.
@@Petaurista13 Dude Jason Brody from Far Cry 3 was a snivelly little bitch for the first quarter of the game, but even then his abilities were somewhat explained. HIS skill with weapons and physical capabilities was explained early into the game: His Brother was US Army, PROBABLY some derivative of special forces, because regular army aren't trained how to flip knives or perform takedowns like he did in the first few minutes of the game, and having 2(?) brothers its likely they all went out and did man fantasy activites together(shooting, notably). Brody is a major adrenaline junky. Willis runs over Brodys file, detailing his mountain climbing in the alps, deep sea diving, HALO jumping, etc. And hes rich. his family comes from good money, so he likely has had plenty of time to indulge his male fantasies and hasn't had to seriously work a day in his life. Which not only explains his physical abilities, but his Snivelly "Holy Shit!" attitude for the first quarter of the game. That said, Rey is even WORSE than a Far Cry character. They almost cant be compared.
4 года назад
@@HSJVUNBEATABLE it's as much a delusion as the Darth Jar Jar theory, only bone headed decision Lucas-films made is Howard the Duck!(someone invent time travel, then I'll stop it Pocahontas and many others!)
probably the majority defends rey because they had done research and liked the sequels i defend her because i can't accept the hate in any way hate is never a good thing
@@skoulikiagamwtanekrasas, hate is never a good thing? I guess we aren’t allowed to hate Hitler, Stalin, racism, sexism, the Taliban, Osama bin Laden and every single other horrible thing in human history
@@skoulikiagamwtanekrasas you said and I qoute "hate Is never a good thing" the guy stated what it's wrong to hate Hitler Stalin racism sexism? Things that are objectively bad. The thing that's wrong with your initial statement is that hate is only born from the love of something. The reason people hate rey is because she is a utter slap to the face of everyone who loved star wars. Even the strongest Jedi in history (Luke) had his hand cut off and was helpless against the emperor had Vader not turned. He's as real of a person as you can get in a story about space wizards. Rey is dropped out of nowhere shoved down your throat as an invincible walking god of a character that magically is good at everything she does to the point she beats a far more powerful and experienced version of the same STRONGEST JEDI IN HISTORY. It's just trash writing and deserves to be hated by people who once loved a story and watched it get butchered.
The moment when Rey attacks a man she’s never met because a droid she's just met says the man is wearing a jacket that looks like the jacket owned by another man she’s never met, was the moment I knew the audience was in trouble.
Yup feminist girl power. I was like ok this isn't starwars especially when she tells Finn she can run without holding her hand. You knew at that point what direction they were going with this trilogy.
To be fair, in a desert you're supposed to cover up your exposed skin to prevent sun burn, however the coverings should really be light cloth, not a leather jacket
Disproportionate use of force against men is the hallmark of SJW Mary Sues. See Captain Marvel almost murdering a guy for getting in her face and telling him to smile.
I know, right? As soon as I heard that, something clicked... especially when comparing Luke's lightsaber to a Legendary item you just *find* in the back of the VERY FIRST TAVERN. I mean, really... Luke gets a pass because the sword was his father's, and he doesn't use it or know how to use it properly till the end of the second movie... kind of like a character getting a weapons with a stat requirement that needs to be met. Not so with Rey...
@@thewateringwiz7118 Late reply, but for anyone wondering the significance of this. The DM essentially runs the game, and sometimes said DM will ask, or be asked by, his girlfriend to play. Which sometimes turns into her character becoming the "main character" of the session or even the entire campaign, often to the dismay of everyone else that is playing.
For people who said "Kylo was severely injured, that's why Rey won" Okay, well Vader survived an assassin that was personally trained by Palpatine while basically being a vegetable (back to the condition when he got his limbs chopped off by Obi wan) and not being able to use the force -- or else Palpy would kill Vader himself. Kylo is a Skywalker, it doesn't matter if he was injured or not, any untrained person in lightsaber combat shouldn't be able to beat him. Yeah Rey is a descendant of Palpatine, but nonetheless, she had never been trained in lightsaber combat.
ok i can help you understand why rey kicked kylo's ass kylo was wounded,he had a conflict because killing your father isn't the best thing,he didn't even want to kill her and rey knew the basics woth a saber because she mastered staff combat
@@skoulikiagamwtanekrasas I really don't want to point out the obvious but ummm A staff is far more different then a damn lightsaber One is a big 2 handed stick the other is a blade that cuts through almost anything plus the hilt is also quite heavy so its a little difficult to wield while also having to be able to use the blade with the right motion to not mess up your stance A staff is not the same its very different and you can't use the experience of a staff to help you use a lightsaber or beat Kylo ren who actually had all of the training and knows how to wield it properly And just because he was wounded doesn't mean he would lose that would actually get him more power because of the dark side and he is fighting an amateur so she shouldn't even be able to touch him even with the wound and if he didn't want to kill her he could of just put her out of commission by using the force or making her unable to fight by cutting her hand off or knock her lightsaber away alot of ways really
One of Pixar's writing tips: It's alright to use main characters' mistakes to get them into trouble, but it's not okay to use those mistakes to get them out of trouble.
@@YeahTheDuckweed just like what on the video... If mc accidentally press a button and then release a monster that after him, and then he must kill it, ok. If mc accidentally press a button and then release a monster, and then the monster kill all enemies around (so the mc doesn't need to do the fighting), that's not ok.
@@YeahTheDuckweed or other example, luke accidentally slip and accidentally throw his lightsaber, which accidentally hit darth vader, ending the fight... That wouldn't be a very interesting climax, would it?
@To Serve And Correct even if it connects with the sequels, you still can't deny the shittiness of the sequels. Plus, is it just me or that you're in a lot of the top comments along with other people, its almost as if you didnt even watch the video
@@ArthurRex131 Don't try to fix it, we know that Rey always gets the talent and that stuff because *Yes* she could have tried it 3 times, but she didn't lose an arm, trained for it or something like that.
Well it was actually just his hand. I'd also like to add he was also really freaking hurt badly by Vader, the loss of his hand was just icing to the cake.
Not only Rey Skywalker is the most powerful duelist and fighter. Obviously the most powerful force user with unmatched potential too. She is also the best starship captain, no can’t compete at her level and match her natural talent and skills. Why do people underrates Rey Skywalker for no good reason, although she is the greatest character and part of the masterpiece of the sequel trilogy? Rey Skywalker is in fact the greatest Skywalker, but also the greatest and also the most powerful Star Wars character, in general and also in terms of writing. Rey is also considered to be one of the most powerful character in fiction, some experts say she is levels above the One Above All. Her character’s writing and arc are considered to be one of the greatest outside of Star Wars, but also in cinema or all of stories. She is considered to be one of the greatest and most iconic characters in cinema, even more iconic than Darth Vader by infinite times which makes Rey Skywalker the most iconic Star Wars character and Disney princess. Although according to experts that she’s the most powerful character and not only in Star Wars, but in fiction, her insane struggles and greatest upbringing or backstory to the most tragic character that would make any famous and well-known Ancient Greek story-tellers cry and admit their greatest tragic stories, or story as a whole in general are nothing compared to the story of Rey Skywalker (more difficult than the rest of Star Wars characters and rest of characters in all of fiction) makes her the most relatable character and hardships to become a Jedi is insanely difficult and especially trying to resist the dark side. Rey Skywalker’s potential is greater than Anakin’s power and full potential. She is not only the greatest leader and candidate for woman empowerment, she is the only embodiment for it. Instead of fighting who is the best and greatest character in Star Wars. Or also the greatest trilogy in Star Wars. Let’s all admit and say the real truth and reality, Rey Skywalker is in fact the greatest masterpiece of a character in Star Wars and the sequel trilogy has the greatest movies in Star Wars. Also, the sequel trilogy in Star Wars are the greatest trilogy in all of cinema, and considered to be greater than the Christopher Nolan’s Dark Knight trilogy and the Lord of the Rings trilogy. Even the experts and the best or legendary directors such as George Lucas, Peter Jackson, James Cameron, Martin Scorsese, Francis Ford Coppola and etc considers the all the three movies of the sequel trilogy in Star Wars are the greatest movies in history. Please no more fighting and bashing other characters, especially Rey Skywalker to say your favorite character is the best, especially Darth Vader or Anakin Skywalker whom Rey Skywalker the real GOAT is infinite times better as a character in writing and relatable, and also more powerful. ✅
She has no reason whatsoever to be with the resistence. Seeing her become a sith would be great character development, and in line with chapter 7. Pity Johnson won't have the balls to do that.
Mr Knarf Disney doesn’t have the galls to make anyone turn Sith, unfortunately. Would be great to have a Sith movie. I’d want it to maybe even be an inquisitor, or a Sith from the old republic, but I want Disney to stay away from the Old Republic Era, lest they destroy that, too.
@dislike bot Why would Rey have such a conflict in the first place? This conflict makes sense in the context of Luke because he was an aspiring Jedi, and presumably being tempted by the Dark Side is a conflict all up-and-coming Jedi must face. Metaphorically, it represents facing your own demons. However Rey was *_NOT_* an aspiring Jedi; she had no motivation to become one, nor does she give any indication that she wants to be one. She just has a mastery of the Force because.....reasons. In fact, it's not until midway through _The Last Jedi_ that she expresses a desire to be trained by Luke. Once more, she has no reason or motivation to become stronger. She's already beaten Kylo Ren by this point, remember? So it makes no sense that Rey would be grappling with the same inner conflict that Luke was. Why would she find anything about the Dark Side tempting? She doesn't even find the GOOD SIDE tempting...
@dislike bot Here's the thing though...her conflict in _The Rise of Skywalker_ is *_AFTER_* her training in _The Last Jedi._ Once more, we still have no clear motive as to why she wanted to train as a Jedi. The bigges problem with her character is that her entire "arc" was resolved by the end of the first film - she started out as a scavenger on Jakku, befriended Finn, escapes Jakku to go on an adventure, realizes she can use the Force, and in the climax faces off with Kylo Ren (who at the time, was meant to be this trilogy's Vader). She beats Kylo Ren in a lightsaber duel, saves Finn, and the First Order's super weapon is destroyed. At this point, there is nothing else for her character to do. She has no reason to train with a Jedi Master because she's ALREADY a master. She beat a skilled Sith on her first attempt with no formal training of any kind. So what *_improvement_* does Rey need? In Luke's case, he was not a Jedi master by the end of _A New Hope,_ which is why he trains with Yoda in _The Empire Strikes Back._ Likewise, Luke does not face Vader until TESB, and even then, his training is incomplete and he gets beaten. So even at the end of the second film, Luke's character still has room for growth; he has not bested Vader, nor has he mastered the Force. I say all of this because Luke's conflict with the Dark Side is multi-layered: 1) He is brash, and often let's emotion influence his judgement 2) He has a tendency to give in to his anger/fear, as shown in TESB. 3) His father is Vader, who represents the most tempting offer of all -- Vader offers him a place at his side and the two of them ruling the galaxy together. Thus, the only way he can be with his father is by turning to the Dark Side. 4) Luke aspires to be a Jedi like his father, and is faced with avoiding the same fate as Anakin. Now let's examine Rey: 1) Rey is also brash and sometimes lets emotion influence her judgement, but she is not an aspiring Jedi, so this doesn't matter. 2) Rey seldom exhibits fear or anger, so she seems to already have mastery of these emotions. Again, this is neither here nor there since she is not an aspiring Jedi. 3) Rey has no family ties to Luke, Leia, Han, Kylo Ren, or Snoke. It's only revealed in RoS that she is the granddaughter of Palpatine, but unlike Anakin, Palpatine has no noble Jedi past. 4) Rey has no reason to "be like Palpatine," because everything she's ever known about this character is negative. Palpatine is an evil Sith Lord, many times more malevolent than Snoke. If anything, this revelation should only reinforce her decision to not turn to the Dark Side. So while Luke has real reason to turn, Rey has no reason to be tempted by the Dark Side. In fact, she spends much of TLJ trying to convert Kylo Ren back to the good side, so clearly she has already decided that the Dark Side is evil. Rey is not thirsty for power, so there is literally no reason for Rey to be any conflict with the DS. As I said, her character arc was over by the end of TFA. If Kylo Ren had beaten her, she would've had reason to seek Luke's guidance. If Kylo Ren had been revealed to be her brother, she would have reason to join the Dark Side.
Responding late, but THANK YOU for this. I just don't get how anyone sees Luke as a Mary Sue. Which character is more believable? A character who gets much training and practice over six years, makes lots of mistakes, loses to the 2nd most powerful Force User in the galaxy, besting him a few years later. A character who through Osmosis and Mind Reading picks up advanced skills over a week's time, succeeds at everything they try, and bests the 2nd and 3rd most powerful Force Users in the galaxy.
I think that 8 and 9 were separated by a few weeks at least, due to the Resistance having set up a sizable force again and Rey doing Jedi Training with Leia, but that’s still not enough time to learn something that even the chosen one himself didn’t learn with a decade of training and a willpower stronger than both deathstars combined wanted
@@Woopor the story could make sense if they explained how rey uses the force, if she can draw from both light and dark sides simultaniously, and doesnt have a confined method of its use, it could have saved some of the mary sue moments. also if the force was tainted by darth sideous's influence making it turbulent and unbalanced, itll make a lot of sense for the prophecy of balance when he is finally ended. they should have focused on the limiting teachings that force users learn, make it an idealology conflict to explain not only why the jedi order from the first three movies were not so powerful, but why rey was so seemingly gifted in its use. it would also explain why she was able to defeat kylo, who had all the restrictive training that stifled his potential, and why he chose to team up with rey in the rise of skywalker.
Not only Rey Skywalker is the most powerful duelist and fighter. Obviously the most powerful force user with unmatched potential too. She is also the best starship captain, no can’t compete at her level and match her natural talent and skills. Why do people underrates Rey Skywalker for no good reason, although she is the greatest character and part of the masterpiece of the sequel trilogy? Rey Skywalker is in fact the greatest Skywalker, but also the greatest and also the most powerful Star Wars character, in general and also in terms of writing. Rey is also considered to be one of the most powerful character in fiction, some experts say she is levels above the One Above All. Her character’s writing and arc are considered to be one of the greatest outside of Star Wars, but also in cinema or all of stories. She is considered to be one of the greatest and most iconic characters in cinema, even more iconic than Darth Vader by infinite times which makes Rey Skywalker the most iconic Star Wars character and Disney princess. Although according to experts that she’s the most powerful character and not only in Star Wars, but in fiction, her insane struggles and greatest upbringing or backstory to the most tragic character that would make any famous and well-known Ancient Greek story-tellers cry and admit their greatest tragic stories, or story as a whole in general are nothing compared to the story of Rey Skywalker (more difficult than the rest of Star Wars characters and rest of characters in all of fiction) makes her the most relatable character and hardships to become a Jedi is insanely difficult and especially trying to resist the dark side. Rey Skywalker’s potential is greater than Anakin’s power and full potential. She is not only the greatest leader and candidate for woman empowerment, she is the only embodiment for it. Instead of fighting who is the best and greatest character in Star Wars. Or also the greatest trilogy in Star Wars. Let’s all admit and say the real truth and reality, Rey Skywalker is in fact the greatest masterpiece of a character in Star Wars and the sequel trilogy has the greatest movies in Star Wars. Also, the sequel trilogy in Star Wars are the greatest trilogy in all of cinema, and considered to be greater than the Christopher Nolan’s Dark Knight trilogy and the Lord of the Rings trilogy. Even the experts and the best or legendary directors such as George Lucas, Peter Jackson, James Cameron, Martin Scorsese, Francis Ford Coppola and etc considers the all the three movies of the sequel trilogy in Star Wars are the greatest movies in history. Please no more fighting and bashing other characters, especially Rey Skywalker to say your favorite character is the best, especially Darth Vader or Anakin Skywalker whom Rey Skywalker the real GOAT is infinite times better as a character in writing and relatable, and also more powerful. ✅
It's even worse when you realize finn's backstory actually has him as one of the better elite storm troopers who had a behavioral issue (he cared about people), which means he should be one of the better combatants in the whole trilogy and have intel on the storm troopers (making him an asset to the rebellion) but instead his plotlines are that he was a space janitor on the 2 most important ships in the first order...
@@tenryuta they had been training since they were children but even then, the FN Corp were trained directly by phasma and were considered one of (if not the) best units in the entire first order. they were basically supposed to be the new 501st. Finn was one of they're best cadets who was seen as a model soldier, except for the fact that he cared too much in phasma's eyes
@@offandsphere6788 He's not just a joke. He can overcome traditional shonen conflicts but he can't overcome more relatable conflicts like being appreciated and depression.
When I first saw the movie I seriously thought Finn was going to be the Jedi and Rey was gonna be a solo like character, I have never been more disappointed.
I agree, How awesome would a story about a former storm trooper who got tired of killing innocent becomes a jedi and faces of against his superiors and eventually fighting the elite of his order(snoke and kylo)
I’m telling you man, having Asoka be Rey’s master would’ve been freaking epic. There’s also another element that you didn’t mention that I think would’ve been awesome to watch. Having Asohka mentor and leave her and Jakku and not coming back could’ve given Rey serious abandonment issues. It could’ve given her the bitter angry edge that is the temptation to the Darkside which of course we all want to see from Star Wars movies. So when she has the chance to leave, she doesn’t want to. When she has the chance to train, she resists. When a wise Jedi master, such as Luke, gives her sound counsel and advice, she’s not inclined to listen to it. Her lack of skills and her emotional shortcomings would’ve given her all the relatability people needed to warm to her instantly. Rey could have been a truly awesome protagonist for the new trilogy. It still would not have excused Disney dumping all over the legacy characters, but it would’ve solved a massive portion of the movies problem
@@iceguy9723 If you like Constructive-Criticism-Essays like this here, you will; as i randomly tell you now for no reason; Madvocate did this with his Flash-Videos, Jay Exci did it with his 5 Hour Video, and Hbomberguy... well... the entire Channel, basically, but mainly his Sherlock and RWBY-Video.
Even if it was intentional for Rey with no training on lightsaber combat to beat a sith, that doesn't mean that it's okay only because that's what they wanted to do
@@dragondust5219 you're only a sith if you're devoted to sith training/teachings and nothing else. Kylo is just a dark jedi (a force user who uses the dark side, but isn't a sith)
Original trilogy: a new world that had interesting ideas and fun space battles Prequel trilogy: expands on the ideas that the original trilogy established Sequel trilogy: copying the original trilogy and makes it very bad and boring
Luke: *Trains with Yoda for two movies Gets his hand cut off by Vader in the second one after dueling* Rey: *Fucking beats a trained sith in the first movie who we know has been training with Luke since the academy opened up and Snoke trained him too*
All Mary Sue's have one thing in common, they are the projection of their creator. Usually it is a writer but it can also be a director, producer, or in Rey's case, the president of Lucas Films. That person is the primary reason why Star Wars is a shadow of its former self. That person is Kathleen Kennedy.
I heard that Kathleen Kennedy is the kind of person to say she supports female rights when in reality she just hates males. She made a stupidly overpowered female character to reflect this.
What really throws me off about this is that she was heavily involved in some of the best movies of all time, including every Jurassic Park and Indiana Jones movie, but also some of the worst, including these and even including The Last Airbender movie. The list of movies she was a part of is extremely interesting and I have no idea how I should feel about it.
@@sterlingmuse5808 The real talent does not lie with her but with whom she attaches herself. If it's with Spielberg or Lucas, then YES she will have a hit on her hand. If it's with some less talented director, it will show.
Real talk: I started writing a fanfic of Rey being raised by a Jedi who taught her everything she knew then left to fight the knights of ren. Then the Last Jedi happened and my hope for the sequel trilogy was gone.
I wrote a fanfiction where she's actually a reincarnated Jedi along with her own soul so the other part of her gives her skill but Rey needs to learn how to fight on her own and not just rely on her other half taking over.
dizzyizzylizzie You know, that actually sounds cool and interesting, something that I can get invested in. I would love to see Rey and her father finally meet in the presence of Kylo, maybe Kylo wants to push her father into killing Rey. But no, Disney wants it to just be one giant political statement. “Wahman gud, man stoopid”
dizzyizzylizzie I would legit read that. Whatever amount you have written. I've been bouncing around ideas for how TFA could have *not sucked* while trying to keep most basic elements of the setup intact. In this, Han isn't pathetic and doesn't die until XIII (TLJ doesn't exist), Luke isn't a murdering angsty hermit, Finn and Poe team up for the B plot, and Rey was raised by a former youngling who escaped Order 66 but dies as part of the initial setup for TFA. Rey follows her dying request to "find Luke". Leia has her own administrative C Plot with Poe and Finn in which she isn't the demonstrable and weird idiot she is portrayed as in Disney Wars.
@@StarWarsomania warning: still killed Han in that fic, spun the Starkiller patricide decision as something Kylo/Ben did not out of wanting to be evil (though that was Snoke's intent) but because in his own twisted way he believed it was better to kill his beloved father now than let him go back and be the hero to a galaxy that never really appreciated him or it's other heroes and politics would just use him to their advantage. Part of the tragedy is that it's not a totally illogical presumption since Luke in that story left after the New Republic tortured him cause certain factions didn't believe what happened at the Temple and hated him from the start just for being Vader's son. Was trying to find ways to rationalize TFA back then, TLJ hadn't come out yet so I was hopeful for a tragic explanation for Kylo that wouldn't make his parents sound evil.
Luke: Needs others to win, got stronger in part 6 only to need Vaders help because.. it's palpatine dudes, strong af sith. Ray: strong awesome woman and needs no help because is super cool.
More like Luke fails over and over, BUT learns from the failure. Things go wrong and has to pay the price; he lost his hand for rushing in when his training is complete, and fails his friend, Han. But is able to save him in Episode 6. Rey, she does fail, BUT she DOESN’T learn from it. Despite failing, things still go well, because.
Not only Rey Skywalker is the most powerful duelist and fighter. Obviously the most powerful force user with unmatched potential too. She is also the best starship captain, no can’t compete at her level and match her natural talent and skills. Why do people underrates Rey Skywalker for no good reason, although she is the greatest character and part of the masterpiece of the sequel trilogy? Rey Skywalker is in fact the greatest Skywalker, but also the greatest and also the most powerful Star Wars character, in general and also in terms of writing. Rey is also considered to be one of the most powerful character in fiction, some experts say she is levels above the One Above All. Her character’s writing and arc are considered to be one of the greatest outside of Star Wars, but also in cinema or all of stories. She is considered to be one of the greatest and most iconic characters in cinema, even more iconic than Darth Vader by infinite times which makes Rey Skywalker the most iconic Star Wars character and Disney princess. Although according to experts that she’s the most powerful character and not only in Star Wars, but in fiction, her insane struggles and greatest upbringing or backstory to the most tragic character that would make any famous and well-known Ancient Greek story-tellers cry and admit their greatest tragic stories, or story as a whole in general are nothing compared to the story of Rey Skywalker (more difficult than the rest of Star Wars characters and rest of characters in all of fiction) makes her the most relatable character and hardships to become a Jedi is insanely difficult and especially trying to resist the dark side. Rey Skywalker’s potential is greater than Anakin’s power and full potential. She is not only the greatest leader and candidate for woman empowerment, she is the only embodiment for it. Instead of fighting who is the best and greatest character in Star Wars. Or also the greatest trilogy in Star Wars. Let’s all admit and say the real truth and reality, Rey Skywalker is in fact the greatest masterpiece of a character in Star Wars and the sequel trilogy has the greatest movies in Star Wars. Also, the sequel trilogy in Star Wars are the greatest trilogy in all of cinema, and considered to be greater than the Christopher Nolan’s Dark Knight trilogy and the Lord of the Rings trilogy. Even the experts and the best or legendary directors such as George Lucas, Peter Jackson, James Cameron, Martin Scorsese, Francis Ford Coppola and etc considers the all the three movies of the sequel trilogy in Star Wars are the greatest movies in history. Please no more fighting and bashing other characters, especially Rey Skywalker to say your favorite character is the best, especially Darth Vader or Anakin Skywalker whom Rey Skywalker the real GOAT is infinite times better as a character in writing and relatable, and also more powerful. ✅
Luke also never would have made the final shot without Han Solo coming back to help him. Remember Vader was just about to shoot Luke down when Han shows up. So again, he needed a lot of help to pull off that shot. Ergo, not a Mary Sue
Mikko Salmela It doesn’t have to be exactly the same. But denying all the contributing facts won’t do any good to you guys. Yes she is over powered, but at the same time she did not just happened to be the winner. Just those factors are not very convincing for her to be a good character.
@@emrahkahraman3495 exactly the reason that Rey is a bad character, Rey goes to save everyone, Luke is Saved by everyone that's the difference between the two
this is because Ahsoka is an actually well written, well developed character that if utilized properly can help make other such characters eg. Kanan Jarrus, when he was down and out with a new padawan she came in to help him learn to be a good master and support the group then was removed from the story when Kanan had his "eye opening" moment (yeah that's a joke) at the hands of Darth Maul (also a character with more personality and development than Rey)
@Gamer Boi 2.0 the force awakens would've been better... if Rey didn't defeat Kylo Ren. One of the best student of Luke's academy, and the master of the knight of ren.. Also have Starkiller base different then just another Death Star.
Which is funny, because every time I debate people who (gag) like Rey, I shove everything great about Ahsoka in their face (with a little Padme and a good chunk of Leia for garnish)
Not only Rey Skywalker is the most powerful duelist and fighter. Obviously the most powerful force user with unmatched potential too. She is also the best starship captain, no can’t compete at her level and match her natural talent and skills. Why do people underrates Rey Skywalker for no good reason, although she is the greatest character and part of the masterpiece of the sequel trilogy? Rey Skywalker is in fact the greatest Skywalker, but also the greatest and also the most powerful Star Wars character, in general and also in terms of writing. Rey is also considered to be one of the most powerful character in fiction, some experts say she is levels above the One Above All. Her character’s writing and arc are considered to be one of the greatest outside of Star Wars, but also in cinema or all of stories. She is considered to be one of the greatest and most iconic characters in cinema, even more iconic than Darth Vader by infinite times which makes Rey Skywalker the most iconic Star Wars character and Disney princess. Although according to experts that she’s the most powerful character and not only in Star Wars, but in fiction, her insane struggles and greatest upbringing or backstory to the most tragic character that would make any famous and well-known Ancient Greek story-tellers cry and admit their greatest tragic stories, or story as a whole in general are nothing compared to the story of Rey Skywalker (more difficult than the rest of Star Wars characters and rest of characters in all of fiction) makes her the most relatable character and hardships to become a Jedi is insanely difficult and especially trying to resist the dark side. Rey Skywalker’s potential is greater than Anakin’s power and full potential. She is not only the greatest leader and candidate for woman empowerment, she is the only embodiment for it. Instead of fighting who is the best and greatest character in Star Wars. Or also the greatest trilogy in Star Wars. Let’s all admit and say the real truth and reality, Rey Skywalker is in fact the greatest masterpiece of a character in Star Wars and the sequel trilogy has the greatest movies in Star Wars. Also, the sequel trilogy in Star Wars are the greatest trilogy in all of cinema, and considered to be greater than the Christopher Nolan’s Dark Knight trilogy and the Lord of the Rings trilogy. Even the experts and the best or legendary directors such as George Lucas, Peter Jackson, James Cameron, Martin Scorsese, Francis Ford Coppola and etc considers the all the three movies of the sequel trilogy in Star Wars are the greatest movies in history. Please no more fighting and bashing other characters, especially Rey Skywalker to say your favorite character is the best, especially Darth Vader or Anakin Skywalker whom Rey Skywalker the real GOAT is infinite times better as a character in writing and relatable, and also more powerful. ✅
I remember when Ahsoka first arrived in the star wars universe, she was purposely made to be a bit annoying, a young padawan who hated being treated like a child, bossed around, and being told she wasn't ready(similiar to Luke in some ways as he was held back from what he wanted to do). It didn't help that Anakin was not prepared for her arrival mentally and spent their first mission constantly bickering. Through out the movie(Or three episodes put together) they continue to bicker but they work things out. Ahsoka even fight Ventress for a couple seconds but gets saved by Anakin. Later she takes on three Magna guards, which is the craziest thing she does the whole movie, she doesn't do it cause she wants to, but because she has to and she is on the defensive almost all the time. She got lucky when she fell down a sand dune and briefly was able to escape the trio of droids allowing her to get the drop on them and instantly kill one, then still struggled with the other two. When it was finally over she was exhausted and fell to her knees and was almost too slow to catch up and save her master from Jabba who thought they were trying to kill him and his son. Later episodes would have her continue to show alot of defiance and over confidence as she learned how war was really like. Her over confidence and not wanting to follow orders made her lose her nearly and entire squad of pilots, and nearly got an entire star cruiser destroyed and Admiral Yularan nearly died. She felt horrible and immediatly began to question if she was good at leading. Eventually Anakin devises a plan to win the battle while letting Ahsoka take over and win the day getting her confidence back. She also nearly was killed on Felucia when she refused to retreat when she refused to see the whole battle field, she was 'winning' where she was and didn't realize she was about to be surrounded and was punished after being narrowly saved. She also tried to face off against General grevious, but this was because her clone troopers would have been killed by him had she not stepped in. She was never on the offense once in that fight and briefly escaped him a couple times before finally barely making it to a ventilation duct and escaping for good. Ohand one directly at Rey, Ahsoka, who had been learning the ways of the force for her entire life learned the mind trick and despite her years and years of learning the force still wasn't able to nail it first try, she sort of succeeded but forgot to make sure her friend could pass too. And it was implied by her padawan friends reaction to knowing this that padawans aren't even suppose to know how to do this, but Anakin is a more unconventional teacher and probably gives her some leeway at times. Notice a pattern, she is young, confident(overly confident) and flawed, and yet most fans ended up liking her. Outside of maybe the Magna guard fight where she struggled and was exhausted afterwards, there's no real "Mary Sue moments' she isn't 'just awesome' she screws up alot in the early seasons, and she is even punished for it with one of those examples(Which connects her to the plot of the episode but whatever) The only moment I can think of where she kinda overstepped her 'awesome' rating was the first Malevolence episode where she could seemingly track down where Plo'Koon was through the force, but it's explained she has a childhood connection to him, and possibly implied that Plo might have been reaching out with the force to try and be saved as well. I think Ahsoka was handled very well, she screwed up she wasn't 'just awesome' at everything she did. Rey is a Mary Sue, and I think that undeniable. She had a bit of a rough start, the fanbase was divided but she earned the respect and admiration of the fanbase through good character development and writing.
Dang, this is an entire essay of points defending Ahsoka. I’m gonna try to do the same with Rey And that’s the end of my long explanation as to why Rey isn’t a Mary sue
You only need to know this one difference: Luke, over the course of three films had to be saved by: Obi-Wan, Leia, Han, C3P0, R2D2, and Darth Vader. He failed in multiple things during the movies, the training droid, the cave, Yoda's initial meeting, His first fight with Vader, his fight with the Emperor, almost dying on Hoth, failing to lift his X-wing. Rey on the other hand only got bested once by Snoke, but never really failed or had any other real issues before or after that. everything came naturally to her, all her hardships were only implied from the past. She is a character in a game with the "unlock all" cheat.
@Jar Jar Binks Young Ani had an astro mech to help with the flying, he couldn't even get the damn ship off autopilot, and once he had control CRASHED into the control ship and was pressing random buttons trying to get it working again. As for Luke, It's been stated quite a few times that he's an experienced pilot, and we already know that one in a million shot was something he used to do back at home, aided but what little force training he had. Whereas Rey brute forces a mind trick and can match a swordsman 1 for 1 in a duel despite having no experience with a sword.
@Jar Jar Binks Rey is shown to be good with a staff, not a sword. Knowledge with one weapon doesn't equal knowledge with a completely different one. And in case you're blind, Ren had Rey on the retreat, despite his injury. He was taking his time with Finn and nearly had Rey down before plot kicked in in a stupid fashion.
@Jar Jar Binks Now I know you're blind, if you truly believe that a weapon that is linger in length than a human is tall and requiring two hands at all times to effectively utilize (Staff) is basically the same as a medium length blade that can be handled with two hands or one hand (long sword). You also have no understanding of how Sith fight, anger and pain are their ultimate tools (hence Ren pounding his wound). Ironically Rey also fights with a lot of anger. Ren was no worse off than what he was at the start of the fight. You wanna talk sloppy, look at Rey's handling of a sword.
@Jar Jar Binks Since you're blind, I'll point out that Rey literally tries to utilize the saber like it's part of a staff, and gets her shit pushed in. Plus based on her performance later, she's absolute garbage with a sword. The force isn't a crutch to fall back on for extra support, as we see early on when she barely manages to block his strikes. I'll also point out that people that usually get shot by a Wookie bow often go flying back or explode, not double over like they've been punched in the gut and keep coming back for more. It's a non factor for Ren.
@Jar Jar Binks You really don't understand the force much. It's not a crutch to lean on or an "I win" button. The force played a small part in enhancing a natural ability Luke already had, not give him an ability he didn't have before. Anakin's use of the force was passive, he had no direct control over it, and it had played a part in his many races before, yet the one we saw was the one and only pod race he's ever won (further cementing that the force isn't an "I win" button). You don't really see her getting stronger from the force, what you see is the director's failed attempt at making her look stronger. Anakin got stronger in his second duel with Dooku. Luke got stronger in his second duel with Vader. Bane got stronger as he learned of what the force was and how to master it. Satele Shan got stronger as she trained and honed her skill. Ren's injury is a non factor, given that he could still take on Finn, even toy with him during the duel, and had Rey on the run. He clearly wasn't THAT injured that his ability to fight was hampered.
The two fanfiction of both Darth vader reincarnating in child Anakin, or simply time travelling at this time and place, make better stories than the trilogy. Seeing him having to deal with Obi-wan being a absolute padawan moron at this point is fantastic
Not only Rey Skywalker is the most powerful duelist and fighter. Obviously the most powerful force user with unmatched potential too. She is also the best starship captain, no can’t compete at her level and match her natural talent and skills. Why do people underrates Rey Skywalker for no good reason, although she is the greatest character and part of the masterpiece of the sequel trilogy? Rey Skywalker is in fact the greatest Skywalker, but also the greatest and also the most powerful Star Wars character, in general and also in terms of writing. Rey is also considered to be one of the most powerful character in fiction, some experts say she is levels above the One Above All. Her character’s writing and arc are considered to be one of the greatest outside of Star Wars, but also in cinema or all of stories. She is considered to be one of the greatest and most iconic characters in cinema, even more iconic than Darth Vader by infinite times which makes Rey Skywalker the most iconic Star Wars character and Disney princess. Although according to experts that she’s the most powerful character and not only in Star Wars, but in fiction, her insane struggles and greatest upbringing or backstory to the most tragic character that would make any famous and well-known Ancient Greek story-tellers cry and admit their greatest tragic stories, or story as a whole in general are nothing compared to the story of Rey Skywalker (more difficult than the rest of Star Wars characters and rest of characters in all of fiction) makes her the most relatable character and hardships to become a Jedi is insanely difficult and especially trying to resist the dark side. Rey Skywalker’s potential is greater than Anakin’s power and full potential. She is not only the greatest leader and candidate for woman empowerment, she is the only embodiment for it. Instead of fighting who is the best and greatest character in Star Wars. Or also the greatest trilogy in Star Wars. Let’s all admit and say the real truth and reality, Rey Skywalker is in fact the greatest masterpiece of a character in Star Wars and the sequel trilogy has the greatest movies in Star Wars. Also, the sequel trilogy in Star Wars are the greatest trilogy in all of cinema, and considered to be greater than the Christopher Nolan’s Dark Knight trilogy and the Lord of the Rings trilogy. Even the experts and the best or legendary directors such as George Lucas, Peter Jackson, James Cameron, Martin Scorsese, Francis Ford Coppola and etc considers the all the three movies of the sequel trilogy in Star Wars are the greatest movies in history. Please no more fighting and bashing other characters, especially Rey Skywalker to say your favorite character is the best, especially Darth Vader or Anakin Skywalker whom Rey Skywalker the real GOAT is infinite times better as a character in writing and relatable, and also more powerful. ✅
Pixar knows what it means to be human. Wall-E is a part of the offering of Artists creating a mirror of what they see in humanity. Look at Wall-E Look at Rey In whom do you see your humanity? That is the power of Good Writing and Presentation.
Is it out of question to have multiple main characters? Rey and Finn in Force awakens, in similar manner to Anakin and Obiwan in some if not all of the prequels? I have always thought it that way. Maybe that's why I seem to stand the sequels much better than most people here: for me, they are only half-bad, not entirely bad :P
@@pRahvi0 Except the prequels are about the fall of Anakin, and the rise of the Empire. Anakin is THE main character. But that doesn't mean your support characters shouldn't be as fleshed out as Obi-Wan is. He brought a lot of heart and depth to the prequels that they sorely needed.
His story could've been amazing. We think of Stormtroopers as pointless cannon fodder, so Finn being a kidnapped child forced to become a trooper should've completely changed the way we thought about them, but nope. They're still used as pointless cannon fodder. Such a missed opportunity.
In deleted scenes from the original film, we see Luke's friend Biggs Darklighter, who is attending the academy, but defects and is one of the rebel pilots in the attack on the Death Stare. Luke likely would have defected to the Rebellion too.
@@montyroot9090 Imperial officer checks the new recruits records "hmm, Skywalker...wasn't there a Jedi named Skywalker?" Imperial officer forwards it on to imperial command, imperial command informs Tarkin who in turn informs Vader and Palpatine. Greenhorn Luke gets his teacher, but in the form of Vader. The story would have been very different indeed.
At the beginning Luke wasnt powerful. He only could actually use his powers perfectly in the 6. movie. He couldn't win in 4 without Hans help, lost his hand in 5 because he wasn't strong enough and would have died without Leias help. In the 6. Movie he saves his friends but would have died in the movie without vaders help. And he only was stronger in movie 6 because he had a lot of training.
Yoda didn’t even want to train him because he was too old and when he left for Bespin, Yoda warned him it would lead to his incomplete training and could be fatal because he was not ready.
how they could have showed her skills and made it "remotely" viable: There is a crashed star destroyer on the planet, have her seek refuge from a storm in it, she finds a pilot training program that partially works and she goes back to it constantly and learns some piloting skills from that. Then show a scene of her trying to adapt her flying "skills", applying scholastic knowledge to experience and how they never truly match up. Show her adapting and overcoming. Mechanical skill? show her scrounging up parts from things to fix her bike and give a scene talking about her bike and how she has to constantly keep it running. But no, they wanted to relive the magic of star wars without honoring it with a nice big handful of modern socio-political grand standing. These simple fact prevented any character growth and genuine character creation.
supposedly there is something like this in the novels. Yes, you have to do homework and read their books to get the story the movie should have been able to show.
@@rolkflameraven1483 As someone who has access to the entire library of star wars books. Yes, I understand this. There even somethings in the books that i think that should have been in the movies. Strong character moments. sadly they were not.
I'd take MauLer's recommendation as well, have her in the process of building her own personal ship (to seek out her parents?). Have her fly that out into space and run into Han and Chewie aboard the Millennium Falcon and skip all that nonsense.
@@rolkflameraven1483 While I cant argue the veracity of the novel claims, so ill just take your stance at face value. My point is i ought not need to do homework or move between different mediums to make a coherent story. In my eyes, even movies based off of books are separate entities to their novels, specifically because they often omit, embellish, or create events to feed a practical need for the movie format. LOTR Trilogy omitted Tom Bombadill, made Helms Deep a major battle (when in novel its mostly glossed over).... i could go on, but i think my point has been made. You cant expect your audience to have surrounding source material before even watching the film unless it was explained in a connected medium (book to book, movie to movie).
I've written this before: Good writers focus on the weaknesses of their protagonists and strengths of their villains. Bad writers focus on the strengths of their protagonists and weaknesses of their villains. If you don't have a character with notable flaws to overcome and weaknesses then, there's no room for growth and there's no room for failures. A good story has to have both Victories and Losses. If you have too many victories vs losses, the story gets blander and more boring. Too many losses, the story gets lost in depression. A good balance of the two is the most compelling a story can be. Luke failed multiple times each film. For example when he gets overtaken by the Tusken raiders, fails to protect his uncle and aunt, and fails multiple times with the force under Yoda's tutelage. This is why we cheer when he ultimately succeeds. Without a risk of failure, there's no reward for watching the journey. Rey never fails. Not once. That's why she's boring. A person in real life should not be judged by how many victories they have had, but by how they move forward after their failures. That is true strength.
An addendum: Also, the best stories have Love, Betrayal and Revenge. These three ingredients are prevalent in every great Shakespearian play, every great work of fiction, and every great movie you've likely seen. These things are of course mostly absent and out of balance in this new trilogy. There is no love between anyone, the betrayal is phoned in from Luke, whose character has to be totally broken in half and sent spiraling the opposite way in order to even create it (any time you have to make a character act contrary to their own character in order to advance the plot, the story needs to be rethought. That will only serve to piss people off and make no sense, breaking immersion and character building), and the revenge of Kylo is not even a revenge at all. He loses to Rey and to Luke. There's nothing he has done that has made him the Revenge and terror incarnate that Darth Vader had become in the original story. It's dirty tap water with a lemon peel, and not lemonade.
@@rhysproudmourne1646 Not to mention this trilogy broken an unspoken but established rule with the (live-action) movies: Jedi lose their first fight against Sith. Luke lost against Vader the first time, Obi-Wan lost against Maul, and Anakin lost against Darth Tyrannus.
She's a plot puppet. A barely ambulatory contrivance that knows/does whatever the plot needs her to. The fact of her Mary Sueness is a direct result of this, I think. It's almost like she's a video game character and we're watching a dev play the unfinished game as they test out powers and mechanics.
Not only Rey Skywalker is the most powerful duelist and fighter. Obviously the most powerful force user with unmatched potential too. She is also the best starship captain, no can’t compete at her level and match her natural talent and skills. Why do people underrates Rey Skywalker for no good reason, although she is the greatest character and part of the masterpiece of the sequel trilogy? Rey Skywalker is in fact the greatest Skywalker, but also the greatest and also the most powerful Star Wars character, in general and also in terms of writing. Rey is also considered to be one of the most powerful character in fiction, some experts say she is levels above the One Above All. Her character’s writing and arc are considered to be one of the greatest outside of Star Wars, but also in cinema or all of stories. She is considered to be one of the greatest and most iconic characters in cinema, even more iconic than Darth Vader by infinite times which makes Rey Skywalker the most iconic Star Wars character and Disney princess. Although according to experts that she’s the most powerful character and not only in Star Wars, but in fiction, her insane struggles and greatest upbringing or backstory to the most tragic character that would make any famous and well-known Ancient Greek story-tellers cry and admit their greatest tragic stories, or story as a whole in general are nothing compared to the story of Rey Skywalker (more difficult than the rest of Star Wars characters and rest of characters in all of fiction) makes her the most relatable character and hardships to become a Jedi is insanely difficult and especially trying to resist the dark side. Rey Skywalker’s potential is greater than Anakin’s power and full potential. She is not only the greatest leader and candidate for woman empowerment, she is the only embodiment for it. Instead of fighting who is the best and greatest character in Star Wars. Or also the greatest trilogy in Star Wars. Let’s all admit and say the real truth and reality, Rey Skywalker is in fact the greatest masterpiece of a character in Star Wars and the sequel trilogy has the greatest movies in Star Wars. Also, the sequel trilogy in Star Wars are the greatest trilogy in all of cinema, and considered to be greater than the Christopher Nolan’s Dark Knight trilogy and the Lord of the Rings trilogy. Even the experts and the best or legendary directors such as George Lucas, Peter Jackson, James Cameron, Martin Scorsese, Francis Ford Coppola and etc considers the all the three movies of the sequel trilogy in Star Wars are the greatest movies in history. Please no more fighting and bashing other characters, especially Rey Skywalker to say your favorite character is the best, especially Darth Vader or Anakin Skywalker whom Rey Skywalker the real GOAT is infinite times better as a character in writing and relatable, and also more powerful. ✅
An entire video for this? I mean, Luke is clearly shown training a couple times while Rey never does. Why is an explanation even requried? Is the lowest common denominator this braindead now? Also, those won't watch the video anyway.
You'd think people would understand, but this is actually a surprisingly common argument lol. It even gets addressed in articles on Forbes. That if Rey is a Mary Sue then Luke is too. So I wanted to explore the idea AND further explain my definition of a Mary Sue I started in the SJW Mary Sue video.
People who try to make the argument for Luke being a Mary Sue aren't even Star Wars fans and probably never even watched the movies. You can't make that argument if you actually saw even one OT film. Most of them are just googling Luke's accomplishments in order to make an argument for Rey.
It's better to have them thoroughly debunked. To have in-depth arguments that explain things in detail. This way even if they try to ignore this rational people everywhere can see and know that they're wrong.
The Mary Sue is a constant cancer in hour media, it important to address in detail because a lot of normal people feel the film, series or book is wrong but can't articulate why.
Yes, she's a Mary Sue, but that's not even her main problem. The main problem I have with her is that her motivations don't work and she is completely devoid of any kind of subtext whatsoever. She is introduced as a scavenger, a character whose primary concern is survival in a dog-eat-dog world. She finds that droid BB-8 and wants to bring it to the Resistance? Why? Was she promised a reward? No. Is she a member of the Resistance or does it mean anything to her? No. Then why doesn't she just try to sell that droid for scrap? Because it's the right thing to do and because else the story would end there. Yes. Of course. That's the motivation of the script writer, but what is hers? Then her run-in with Finn. Why does she work together with him? Why does she want to get off the planet with him? The key element of the question is the "with him" part. It is very obvious to her that he is wanted and that there are people who want him dead. Again, she is introduced as a survivalist character. They make very poor hero characters, by the way, mostly because of what their natural motivation is: Keep your head down and send someone else ahead to take the shots for you. That's how you survive. Trying to work together with someone who gets shot at already is certainly NOT something a character whose key background is "I'm a surviver". The character simply does not work at all, that she's a Mary Sue is just the cherry on top of the shit sundae.
Thank god, FINALLY someone who understands. Everyone I've talked to said she was a bad character, but the only response was that she was a Mary Sue. She sucks for more than just that. Scavengers are survivalists (minimal risk, maximum reward and safety), meaning they'd rather sit in the back and let everyone else take their shots and leave, THEN get whatever is left over.
And just to complete the comparison with Luke as you did in this video, Luke has motivation and (and that's actually quite rare in movie characters) subtext. We learn early on that he wants to leave the planet and join the army. With the unspoken subtext that he wants to be a hero. He expresses how he feels useless on this planet, and that he feels like his life should have more in store for him than moisture farming. That's not only relatable, that's the classic hero's motivation. I never said Lucas was a very creative writer, only that he knew how to make characters work. :) We also learn that he is dependable and that he would do the "right thing" (tm) if need be. Not because we're told but because when his uncle then says that he needs him here and that Luke can maybe go next year, Luke reluctantly agrees. We learn that he is a character that does put his own goals (and that of the viewer!) back behind what is necessary for the greater good. Note that "doing the right thing" isn't something that makes a character bad, what makes Rey "doing the right thing" being out of character for her is that she was never introduced as a character that would "do the right thing" or do anything for the greater good, she was introduced as a self-reliant person in a dog-eat-dog world. This is about as far as you can get from "doing it for the greater good". We all get to learn this even BEFORE anything important happens to the character. We also learn of his motivation to go on the adventure when R2 shows the hologram and he utters "she's beautiful". Subtext: I'm a horny teenager and there's a damsel in distress, I gotta rescue her and she's gonna shag me. Thankfully he didn't know yet that she's his sister or this would have been a trifle... creepy. He also learns of "Obi Wan Kenobi", and this introduces another improtant aspect of Luke's character. He finds out that Obi Wan, or Ben as he knows him by, is a war hero, and Luke idolizes that guy. He also gets to SEE first hand how the force works when Obi Wan tells the Stormtrooper to let them pass, and he is impressed by it, enough that he wants to learn it. There's way more, but you get the point. We get to SEE how Luke is motivated and we also get to SEE why he is motivated to do what he does. Lucas SHOWS us what drives and motivates his characters and we get to find this out for ourselves (well, not really, but we feel like we do). As you see in the emphasis I put there, the key is "SHOW, don't TELL", which is (or at least should be) the way movies tell the audience what the characters do and why. If you need to TELL me why you motivate your characters or, worse, if you TELL me why I should empathize with them, you're simply and plainly doing it wrong. And this is why Abrams is a horrible writer.
A perfect example of how to turn a scavenger into a hero character is Vin from Mistborn, and that took place over hundreds of pages and months of book-time. Rey has none of that.
Ok, time for me to explain. She wants to take the droid back home because, well, she knows her life is meaningless and is alone, so she'd like to maybe try to convey some happiness for someone. But so far, every time she tried, she failed (point in case, the plant, she tried, but failed). Now, why does she want to get off the planet "with him" ? well that's easy, she was all alone until now. She's getting horny every now and then and wants to fuck. Even "survivalists" eventually think with their dick, well, in her case, her vagina. But then the horny moment wears off and she doesn't end up fucked. The end :D
actually, due to the Millenium falcon's hyperdrive being damaged, its estimated that the trip to bespin took at least 6 months, meaning luke trained with yoda for atleast 6 months
I remember when someone said something like “Rey would beat Darth Vader at his prime.” Me and everyone else laughed. This guy has such a connection with the force, he used it to force himself to breathe.
Not only Rey Skywalker is the most powerful duelist and fighter. Obviously the most powerful force user with unmatched potential too. She is also the best starship captain, no can’t compete at her level and match her natural talent and skills. Why do people underrates Rey Skywalker for no good reason, although she is the greatest character and part of the masterpiece of the sequel trilogy? Rey Skywalker is in fact the greatest Skywalker, but also the greatest and also the most powerful Star Wars character, in general and also in terms of writing. Rey is also considered to be one of the most powerful character in fiction, some experts say she is levels above the One Above All. Her character’s writing and arc are considered to be one of the greatest outside of Star Wars, but also in cinema or all of stories. She is considered to be one of the greatest and most iconic characters in cinema, even more iconic than Darth Vader by infinite times which makes Rey Skywalker the most iconic Star Wars character and Disney princess. Although according to experts that she’s the most powerful character and not only in Star Wars, but in fiction, her insane struggles and greatest upbringing or backstory to the most tragic character that would make any famous and well-known Ancient Greek story-tellers cry and admit their greatest tragic stories, or story as a whole in general are nothing compared to the story of Rey Skywalker (more difficult than the rest of Star Wars characters and rest of characters in all of fiction) makes her the most relatable character and hardships to become a Jedi is insanely difficult and especially trying to resist the dark side. Rey Skywalker’s potential is greater than Anakin’s power and full potential. She is not only the greatest leader and candidate for woman empowerment, she is the only embodiment for it. Instead of fighting who is the best and greatest character in Star Wars. Or also the greatest trilogy in Star Wars. Let’s all admit and say the real truth and reality, Rey Skywalker is in fact the greatest masterpiece of a character in Star Wars and the sequel trilogy has the greatest movies in Star Wars. Also, the sequel trilogy in Star Wars are the greatest trilogy in all of cinema, and considered to be greater than the Christopher Nolan’s Dark Knight trilogy and the Lord of the Rings trilogy. Even the experts and the best or legendary directors such as George Lucas, Peter Jackson, James Cameron, Martin Scorsese, Francis Ford Coppola and etc considers the all the three movies of the sequel trilogy in Star Wars are the greatest movies in history. Please no more fighting and bashing other characters, especially Rey Skywalker to say your favorite character is the best, especially Darth Vader or Anakin Skywalker whom Rey Skywalker the real GOAT is infinite times better as a character in writing and relatable, and also more powerful. ✅
@@code44422 so either your meme-ing or you're serious and has to write an essay. Rey struggled force holding a ship, Vader stopped ships instantly, and thats while he has been handicapped.
