Why Simon is the BEST Villain in Infinity Train 

I think Simon was on the car because a family member died, possibly a parent. There's an oddly specific line Simon says in the Campfire Car when he describes his perspective of what a funeral is to Hazel. He includes some very specific, very personal details when he says "we'll just say a bunch of words" and then "a bunch of annoying neighbors bringing casseroles over". Being on the train at *10 years old, how many funerals would Simon have been to for him to have such a specific detail relating to funerals? He must have been at a funeral REALLY young and it's likely it was a close family member (parent, sibling, etc). This would naturally play into his insecurities of being abandoned by The Cat. Even though he had so many chances to be better, and he was dealing with his own traumas, he refused to change and that was his downfall. A complex character where you only see snippets of that complexity and it makes his character feel so nuanced and tragic, not just an evil cackling villain. At the end of the day he's a scared kid lashing out and blaming outside forces for his problems. The lies he told himself led to his own undoing.

also on twitter one of the creators said simons death wasnt supposed to be a punishment, it was supposed to be a tragic end

Damn I gasped so loud after the tuba death especially after tuba and Simon got along before hand

My reaction to Book 3 in a nutshell: OH MY GOD SIMON, WHAT THE FU-

My nitpick for this season is the fact that we never really knew why Simon ended up on the train in the first place.

I think I know he killed Tuba after discovering that “nulls” have more to offer as human do: because he chose to. Because he refuses to believe that he was living a lie, despite uncovering new knowledge about denizens, he ignores this new profound fact, and keeps telling himself that nulls can’t be trusted. He just doesn’t want to accept the truth and admit that he was wrong, even going to far as to lying to himself, making choices he knows are wrong, rejecting Amelia, the “real” conductor, and rejecting Grace’s own memories. “Why would I ever want change, when I’m always right?” - Simon, S3, Ep 10.

I found it poetic that Simon was killed by a ghom, the very thing that caused Samantha to abandon him and Grace to mislead him. His past caught up to him, but he lost the fight.

1:32 Regarding the question of how long Amelia has been running the train? One-One stated in a train documentary short that he was trapped in the snow car for 33 years, so that's how long she's been running things and I think it was mentioned in this season too, somewhere.

He started as a scared child, but grew up to be an irredeemable monster.

It's amazing how much people delude themselves over this show, pretending as if Grace and Simon at all had the same amount of chances or the same journey. Grace knew from the start that the philosophy of the Apex was something she cooked up in a few seconds and simply stuck with it because it was convenient. Simon believed it wholeheartedly, as the foundation of his formative years. It's a hell of a lot easier to face the fact that you've abused and murdered when it was the result of a dumb kind playing a dumb game like Grace, realizing her misdeeds was a learning experience. It's not the same when you have a genuine vendetta against nulls and know for a fact that they are capable of pretending to care for passengers. Even the show makes it obvious that Simon hates tuba because he projects his views of his relationship with the cat onto her and Hazel. For Grace it was as easy as saying "Huh, I guess that story I made up wasn't anywhere close to the truth." while Simon realized that half of his entire life was a complete fabrication and he was trapped here because of Grace's lie, and the one person he trusted was also the biggest liar in his life, so he rejected that reality. Grace didn't "change" she just got the whole story laid out to her and acted accordingly, while Simon got merc'd because a kid fibbed to him to look cool eight years ago. Simon was a hundred miles deeper down the hole than Grace and needed far more help then the train could ever possibly give him in a thousand years, he literally had zero chance to go for redemption, there was no time where he could rationally throw his hat down and say "Yeah, my life is a lie but I need to embrace *friendship and forgiveness."*

It's so ironic that Simon died to a Ghom, but Grace first saw him being attacked by one. The reason he survived then is because she helped him. But the reason he died was because she didn't help him.

The way this one person explained Simons journey on the train ever since he was 10 like they day he got there and how he grow made me feel bad for Simon and a way to actually understand his childish anger. They stated "Man, this hurts. Simon was a child who was dependent and easily influenced. The Cat left him, so he latched on hard to Grace. He got so comfortable and the Apex ideology his only solace. When Grace started to change quickly, he could feel her slowly leaving. He grew volatile, weaponized by the old Grace and unable to change with unresolved trauma. Anger was his only way to feel less pain, and that anger caused him to destroy everything he ever had. There was no coming back, especially when he was never communicated with. Simon became irredeemable and thus was eaten by a Gohm, the same thing that started this downward spiral for him in the beginning." and I couldn't agree more.

People always talk about the “Heroes Journey,” well Simon is the literary example to the question of what would be the “Villains journey.” I never once hated Simon only pitied him. His character is one of the best written tragedies I’ve encountered.

A truly good villain is one that you love and hate simultaneously

Simon hurt my emotions so much. He didn't start out pure evil and even in the very end he had a small spark of regret. He had potential to become better but he just refused to change every time he had the chance to. He dug his own grave and the whole fandom just had to watch and yell at the screen.

Simon is the fault of the train and if the answer of the train to their methods failing is dead, the the train is no better that the worst 18 century psychiatrics

I agree that he was unable to be redeemed and maybe thats why the black creature (Forgot what it’s called) killed him so fast. I think if your number goes all over your body, then your time is up. It explains how Amelia is still alive. Simon legitimately looked insane in his last moments of life, and looked in pain.

this season destroy me. I never felt this broken after watching a kids show ( if i can call it that )

There is this theory that Simon decided to kill Tuba in that exact moment because he was getting too attached to her and didn't want his emotions to interfere even more later (and that he could get rid of Tuba and give the excuse of "I couldn't rescue her" to Hazel, but as we know, he didn't)

Am I the only one who sees simon vibes in Amilia from kipo? I mean, both think humans should take control over the dennisons and mutes

Also we can at least infer that Amelia was running the train for at least 33 years, Because when Hazel complimented her she said "It pains me to turn down my first compliment in 33 years." So I'm sure that's how long she was running the train. considering she was a young woman when she got on the train and now she's in her mid to late sixties.

I think I have a different reason why Simon killed Tuba I think he was jealous He saw a passenger with a denizen that would always be there for her, and he doesn't want Hazel to have that joy. He wants Hazel to be just as alone as he was and go through the same pain that he went through.

The Infinity Train isn't just some happy go lucky place where you work through all your problems. It can definitely be dangerous and traumatizing in its own right so I really don't understand why people keep putting all the blame on Simon when they didn't have to go through what he did without a proper role model to have a base level of morality from.

Honestly I admired him, favorite character of the whole series

I think the train needed to have fail safes such that it literally doesn’t take children from their families for years on end. If isolation can drive adults insane imagine a child.

I think your right about Simon being the best villain. But it is not so much because he was irredeemable, but that he choose not to be redeemed. But what I really think makes him great is that I can understand him, not agree with him, but his motives actual make sense. The creators say he's a clinical narcists, which means he cannot comprehend the idea of being wrong. They also said he can be loyal but only to those who share his ideals, which I think explains a lot about his relationship with Grace. There is also the point you made of him being emotionally stunted. He likes his version of the train because it allows him to play hero, or anti-hero, he treats it like living in a video game where you spend so time blowing stuff up and killing "people". He even says to Amelia, he has no interest in leaving the train. But this helps explain how he is able to still seem himself as a hero, especially when he's calling Grace out for her lies and manipulation, despite all his shit. At least as long as you do not call him out on his delusions. He's kind of like a conspiracy theorist, whose conviction, and half truths, can almost make sense, so long as you don't listen to anything that contradicts it.

I could not believe they got away with Simon's death. That was one of the most brutal deaths I've ever seen on TV, let alone in a freaking kids show.

As much as horrible Simon is he still was put on a train at a young age and was nearly killed and abandoned, doesn’t make up for what he did but he definitely has more to him than him just being a bad person for the sake of it, I’d like to see what got him on there in the first place, also I’m surprised his death scene got through censors like that

I hope next season is based on grace, and or hazel

Alternate title: why Simon is the most underrated cartoon villain of all time

Your failure to understand trauma is sad. As a child, facing not just a near death experience, but one in which something is actively TRYING to kill you, is horribly traumatic, causing PERMANENT damage to you mentally. Being abandoned by the one and only person you trust in that specific moment, is even worse. He wasn’t acting childish, he was suffering. When you have such deep seated trauma, real mental scars, you don’t just “be an adult” about it, as you’d put it. It doesn’t matter if the train is meant to help people either. When you suffer from real, serious trauma, real mental issues, they don’t just “get better” they don’t just go away. They stay with you, your entire life. Medication makes them easier to deal with, livable, alongside therapy. He had trust issues, he was traumatized, hell, a bunch of these characters have some form of PTSD. And he isn’t any different. When he meets his first betrayer again, he suffers from a panic attack, a serious mental break, it isn’t something you just “Be less childish” about. I have panic attacks, anxiety attacks, I was for a long while afraid of being touched, now as long as I am aware that physical contact is on its way I’m okay. Tap me on the shoulder from behind, and I might react pretty badly, either curling up as a fear reaction, or whipping around to defend myself. It’s usually curling up into a ball. It’s not a voluntary action, my brain perceived touch as a threat, and it just decides that I need to be scared and become as small as possible. I’ve suffered trauma that made me this way. Him not being able to breath is a very real thing. He was suffering. And coupled with the reality of the train, well, it turned him in to what he was. He didn’t receive the support he needed. He needed therapy. Someone to talk to. His needs were never met. His mental health in decline. It reminds me of me. Besides the going full murder mode part of course. But I suppose if I were placed in that world, denied proper mental help, lacking people to trust, I too could have become a villain like him. Anyone could, if they experienced trauma like he had. It’s true that people react differently to such things, some might become obsessively attached to their saviour, and become a totally different kind of villain. Some might end up being a good guy, but not everyone would. If what people get out of traumatized people becoming crazed murderers as their mental health rapidly declines is:This person was horrible and should have been less childish. Either the creators have failed, or whoever said that is a horrible human being with no sense of empathy. Of course I hated the things he did, but I understood that he was mentally disturbed, sick. I pity him.

Me watching infinity train episode 2: Don’t do it Simon. Me watching episode 3: DONT DO IT Simon. Me watching episode 4: Good boy Simon :3 Me watching episode 5: FUC-

I hope we get to see Simon's past life before he came onto the train in book 4

Simon is the Judge Frollo of the Cartoon Network villains! Because not only Simon is the darkest of the CN villains, But Also shares some of Frollo's traits. He thinks his horrible action of murder are for the greater good like how killing, Tuba as to killing Quasimodo's gypsy mother. He's self rightious & completely over-zealous. And Grace is kinda Simon's own Esmerelda, However, unlike Frollo, simon wasn't going through lust by her, but through betrayal.

Simon is the result of a series of failures upon failures culminating into something broken. Everyone important to him in that train lied to or abandoned him, and nobody really had the knowledge or ability to predict just how far down the rabbit hole he fell. But the saddest part will always be that he failed himself most of all. The door was open for him, but he didn't have it in him to walk into the light, and so his own darkness consumed him.. How fitting.

i think in episode 4 simon wasnt that in the wrong for actting how he did, he was having a ptsd based panic attack.

Simon wasn't a villain. He was a victim, a fragile mind nurtured and raised to believe one thing and he really couldn't comprehend the idea that everything was wrong, that he in fact was evil, after tht the mental break really capitalized on that belief. Grace really could have done and said more to explain things. But then again growing up on the train doing the opposite of growing, talkings not going to come naturally. He is a victim and will always be a victim in my eyes Grace too. Victims of Amelia.

I find it odd people expect 18yr olds to be fully grown adults when the human brain doesnt even fully develop until 25. Simon is still young, how to deal with trauma healthily is a taught behavior and he'd been on that train for since he was 10 he never got to learn how to process his feelings properly. His only parental figures on the train were grace who was barely older than himself and the cat that left him to die. Never finding out why he was on the train at all really does make it feel like there something missing. This is a deeply traumatized child who never learned how to properly handle his trauma he was surrounded by other children who experienced similar trauma who validated the negative behaviors mentioned. Grace got attached but before then she had done all the same things Simon had. Simon doesnt get better because he doesn't know how, Grace just got lucky.

I love Simon and I don't like what he did to Tuba, Hazel and Grace, but like I feel people are too harsh on his character?? He was 10 when he got on the train, was betrayed by the cat, followed Grace's ideology and after 8 years of living by this, was suddenly being pushed away by Grace for doing things that would have previously gotten him praise from her. We as the audience know why Grace began to have a change of heart, but Simon was kept in the dark and felt betrayed by the person he trusted most. I truly wish he would have gotten redeemed but I think he made a great villain.

WAIT INFINITY TRAIN BOOK 3 IS OUT HOW DID I MISS IT I AM SO HAPPY I AM ABOUT TO CRY IM NOT JOKING

Another big thing about Simon was that he used his PTSD as an excuse to be a jerk and hurt people.

One of the cut bits from Grace's memories was a very awkward attempt at a kiss.

I would love it if a future antagonist turns out to be a relative of Simon or has history with him.

I heard a lot of people talking about how much they hated Simon, but i just loved his character and he might be my favourite in the entire series. I like him as a well-written character, of course, not as a person. Apparently he is a clinical narcissist or a person with NPD, according to the creators. Which makes total sense as to why he'd rather shape reality in the way that he wanted rather than accept it for what it is. And why he refused to believe things that were proven true, _and_ his very obvious act of grandiose and manic ego towards the end. I just absolutely love corruption arcs and Simon's was definitely one of those. He wasn't perfect in the beginning, but he showed signs of empathy and understanding. But as the story progresses, he gets more and more inhumane, trapping himself in the false reality that he fell in love with and going any lengths to keep that reality intact. To the point where he was willing to murder the same person he was trying to protect and care for his whole life. I just think he's such an interesting character and even with all his villainy, i couldn't really get annoyed or mad at his appearances.

For a while, MT/Lake was my favorite character of Infinity Train, but with Book 3 that quickly changed to Simon.

You know what's darker than Simon's entire story is the fact that when Grace ever gets off the train, she'll probably be greeted with missing person posters for Simon (the pictures showing him as an 8 year old boy) and she'll be faced with the very awkward reality that Simon's parents have no idea where he is or what happened to him (nor what he became so in their memory he's perpetually the more innocent small child they last saw him as). I can only imagine the awkward look on her face.

lo puedo decir? ¿si? estuve esperando usar esta frase por un largo tiempo y en Simón le queda perfecto: ¡Arriba, el rey del mal! jsksja

Simon is a villain DONE RIGHT! He's not one of those generic "I'm gonna rule the world because I want to" or " I'm gonna kill people because I feel like it" types you see in media these days, he's a more realistic type of villainous character, a horrible, yet tragic, person who could have redeemed himself, but didn't because he believed he didn't need nor want to. In his own words "Why would I ever wanna change... WHEN I'M ALWAYS RIGHT?!?!". He gives you that feeling where one part of you wants to strangle his neck until he croaks, yet there's another part of you that just wants to give him a hug. And unlike most villains who die where the hero is happy they're dead and everyone celebrates, Grace and the Apex are heartbroken by Simon's death and mourn for him. Because despite all he did, Grace still saw him as a friend and never gave up on him. Take notes Hollywood, THIS is how you do a villain RIGHT!

I heard that the creators said that the reason Simmon was on the train was because he lost at a spelling bee lol

This guy was so traumatized by feeling be left dead behind that he don't trust and hate everyone anymore and being more and more murderous and insane.

i actually just finished watching this series. it sucks that there was never a season 5 i want more of this show it was great!

This video has been in my recommended for so long, but until a few days ago I'd never watched infinity train... when I got to the part where Simon gets numbers all over his face, I could not for the life of me figure out why it looked so familiar!

I remember following u way back when you did Smash content! Ur so awesome

I was kind of expecting Simon to go like Heather did. An amazing antagonist who does their job well who then changes because of a bigger threat. I thought that until yk his death.

I can’t decide between Simon, and Mace. They’re both pure evil. Edit: Anyone else realize how similar Hazel and Young Simon’s outfit??

simon is the downward spiral that happens when you refuse to deal with your trauma.

A villain is good when you know there’s that chance for change, but they just… really fuck it up

We have to give credit to the writers Simon is such a good written character.

Is it bad that I can relate to the trauma that Simon faced and even some of his attitude lol

The best Villian is the one who's pain you understand

Simon is a character that’s doom for tragedy. As child, he was scared so much so that he can’t leave behind these ideals that he and grace created because to Simon those ideals were all he has left and without them, he has nothing. His death is one of those examples that falls in line with the logic that you can’t save everyone which Simon’s path so tragic. Infinity train is an awesome show that goes in depth of the characters and I appreciate this so much

Simon works because he exits to mirror grace. As she realises she was wrong and learns that she never helped anyone and instead only made them worse, and learned denizens were people too, Grace does the opposite, doubling down and becomign worse, rejecting every single lesson so he can tell himself that he's 'right'. And while Grace's growth saves her (with the denizens she helepd savign ehr from a horrid death), Simon's degeneration leads to him being alone and abandoned as even the other Apex rejected his outright sociopathy and selfishness and it ended up with him being devoured and rejuced to nothing.

Hey I had one question Where did Simon get that device that shows the Highest number and those magnetic shoes? I mean I know it catbe from one of the cars they looted but I am still curious about actual theory

Personally his end felt so shallow and forced, I get they were building up this big tragic end but it really was "wrong place wrong time" kind of moment. The beast monster could have targeted anyone he didn't make a fatal decision where he created the events of his own death. Compare how Simon dies to the 1999 movie Tarzan, the dude Claton literally doesn't realize it but he's actively setting himself up to die. He's so blinded by vengeance and glory he can't even take a moment to notice what he's doing is going to literally kill him in about 20 seconds. In the case of Simon he gets jumped by a monster that sucks his life out instantly, and much faster than ever before on screen. Other people have been jumped by these things and been fine but suddenly for this one instance he is killed within like 1-2 seconds. The story managed to have him the easiest target but that just made it feel campy, having the major villain right next to the "hungry tiger". Would have been nice to see his actions actually create his demise in a similar manner. For example remove the monster completely, in the fight you could have had him repurposed their grappling devices and alter them to make weapons. Have him launch these against Grace over and over again because none of the kids want to help him. Have him get more and more frustrated have him turn on the kids at one point and shoot the weapons at them too, express how unhinged he's become. Have a showdown on the bridge where he's about to shoot Grace but the kids throw a large metal plate in the way to save her and have the grapples attach to the plates. Have them go under a wheel and have him pulled under the train, as the kids some are crying and others chant Void. He was a leader who was unfit to lead. His own weapon, his own system, his own idea, his own hand creating his demise, that would have been more tragic and almost poetic considering everything he did. If you've read this far, thanks for reading the rant. It's just one persons opinion, if you feel strongly against or for then I'm curious what you would change or keep.

my brother told me season 3 was messed up (cause he watched it without me) but i really didnt expect this level of dark

I think Amelia's change was due to her knowing deep down that she couldn't possibly bring back her love, but unable to move past her grief on her own. Tulip being able to understand where she was coming from and not giving up on her I think moved her, helped her understand a little more. Her numbers began to change. She had been trying for so very long. She had to accept that she couldn't do it, even with the train's help-and that it was hurting her to try. A truly human perspective. I wonder, how isolated was she over those many years?

8:31 which makes me think. When the ghome didnt eat Tulip back in episode 9 of season one, was it because the gome is aticus, or is it because they feed on numbers and Tulip's was almost 0?

ok im sorry to be the one to ask this question but what is the song playing in the background? it sounds so familiar to me and its on the tip of my tongue but i cant remember where its from

Simon is my favorite character-

Now the song Wolf in Sheeps Clothing is stuck in my head

0:32 isn’t that the same deodorant that Eda the Owl Lady tried to sell to Luce in that first episode of The Owl House? I may be wrong, but if not that’s pretty cool! It’s like Gravity Falls with the pen and the mug from Rick and Morty.

One-One did say if a person never got their number to go down, or couldn't, that they would die on the train. Maybe Simon getting caught was the Train's system getting rid of something that had become something it couldn't fix.

I'm not sure if it's completely Fair, that train seems like a death trap to me its purpose is vaguely helpful and that's a lot to expect out of a child the train created a monster out of a human. I see the train as the true threat. Look at me being crazy rationalizing a cartoon.

I haven't seen this show in a while but I didn't know that there are adult passengers too

Didn't realized this came about before Book 4, Amelia was supposed to be the main focus of Book 5 so we would have learned so much more... can't help but think about that all the time

I wanted a backstory to simon cuz I want to know what got him on the train

Literally the first 10 seconds explains it perfectly.

it would of been really good to see a scene where once tulip leaves we se amelia charging and swinging at 11 while the steward holds her back

I’ve never seen this show what’s it about

I saw this entire season as two characters taking a different path when the road splits. Both were bad people at the beginning and were more or less the same person, but then came the fork in the road, one path leading to self improvement, the other continuing down the same path. Grace took the former, as she chose to confront the issues that lead to her boarding the train, whereas Simon took the latter, reinforcing his bad mannerisms and ignoring the help offered to him. In the end, Grace is still on the train, demonstrating that the path to redemption is neither short nor easy, but it's far more preferable than the other path, which leads to the loss of friends, an ever deteriorating mental state, and ultimately, self destruction. One question i had was who was supposed to be Grace's denizen? Simon had the Cat, who abandoned him and inadvertently reinforced his abandonment issues, but I don't think Grace was ever given one to begin with. I''m assuming that the chaos happening on the train at the time meant that some people probably never met the ones who were assigned to help them

It took me way too long that you were showing the actual show and not a fan animation.

I gotta see season 2 and 3.

Can you do some videos talking about Craig of the Creek please? It's a very great, very underrated show on Cartoon Network.

I made a small script today where I just wrote about what happened to Simon after he got his soul sucked out of him

The purpose of this video in a nutshell simon You are bad guy, but that does not mean you are BAAD guy

Ngl I had no idea infinity train had a season 3

I definitely agree with you. I would love to know your opinion on Kez from book 4. I think she's one of the best Denizens of the series

I always wanted to know Simon's past before he got on the train.

Damn... He did at the age of 18! Wow!

Moral of the story don't give your trust to a cat

The best part is that he wasn’t redeemed too many cartoon villains get redeemed we have to realize that some people don’t deserve redemption if they won’t change theres no forcing them Simon chose his path

I feel like if Amelia's past were explored and she showed up in the future (sans Infinity Train revival), we might see her attempt again to gain access to the controls only to realize it was all a dream (her attempts I mean, like the thing Rick does in that Rick and Morty episode where he tries to help others live in tubes in fantasy), and maybe she reaches zero and sees the sun for the first time just as she's about to pass away, at peace.

I'll be honest. I didn't realize this show was even greenlit after the pilot episode.

I feel bad he could have been good this seems more tragic than gratifying

Simon got cluster b personality I understand now 😌

I also belive the train killing is suposed to be a last report. Incase this person hijacks another persons door

Kinda sad that they had such an amazing antagonist in book 3 then they made book 4 and didn't really have a main antagonist

Haven't watched the show yet, but it really does feel like the Train failed Simon here.

Bro i almost cried at Tuba death until Hazel started changing and i was like: "OH MY GOD WHAT I ALMOST CRIED" i was excited to cry because i rarely cry in series and infinity train almost made me cry

Wait I named my dogs Gracie and Hazel after I watched this season and I didn’t even realize lmao.