Why Smart Plugs EXPLODE or MELT With Heaters! Are Smart Plugs Safe? 

Thank you Chris! Much appreciated for bringing this on. I didn't want to get too complex with all the actual ratings in the video itself, but this is something I can pin for people to ask about and discuss.

Then you should pay more and buy a 20 amp model. Newer homes have existed since at least 1954 as 20 amp circuits with 12 gauge wiring has been used since at least then

@@SteveStowell average consumer dont understand 15 or 20 amp they just go with cheaper options

yeahhh, be careful on that! It's probably pretty humid in there too right? That's an additional issue for arcing, FYI.

Thank you sir! I just try is all :)

I'm so glad this brought something to someone with your experience! That's a real positive for me!

Ohhhh that's a great story. One day maybe I can tell all the stories about exploded buildings that I've seen...might have to!

A kettle should generally be fine, but always good to check!

I'm JUST testing one of those Govee heaters. Love it so far.

I'm glad this helped! Let's keep those plants growing!😀😀😀

Thanks for that Hugh! I agree...I felt like this was something I could bring to the channel and I'm going to build out these deeper learning videos I think. It's something unique and like you said, we gotta eat our veggies. Or move and ignore them!!! AHHAHAHAAA!

You're probably right about that reduction in rating. I haven't read the NEC in a bit, though I did read the CEC (which is basically a carbon copy with a few changes here and there) recently. I believe that it's specifically for inrush and for fault management too. You don't want to burn wires inside a wall in a home...cause...that's the end.

That looks like a great suggestion there Matthew. Good stuff!

My pleasure!

Sorry Arthur. The engineer in me says not a good idea.

You should be good with that setup. Maybe just check if it's heating up over time with your hand every so often. If you do find it's heating up pretty well (the smart plug), then it's probably a good idea to replace it every so often.

Try a smart switch if you have an outlet that is controlled by a light switch, or use IR based control if your heater has a remote!

I think in general you're right. An outlet over a smart plug is going to be better. You can still eventually run into the same problem, but I think you'll find them to be more resistant to heat and current over time.

You've done some damage for sure. The good news is that it failed in this way and not a worse way! Toss the plug. :) Faulty? No clue. Just sounds like it took an overload and failed.

You know your stuff, clearly. Those inductive loads can be baaaaaaaad news and never seem to be handled well by these. I like the 2/3rds rule too. It goes in line with most electrical standards!

Hey Mike, Washing Machines usually require a higher amperage service. Check out Aeotec for one there. As for air conditioners, honestly...get a smart one like this Midea one: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ePKUjuDou-Y.html. I don't like most of the ones on the market today even when they say they deal with motor/inductive loads. At 15 amps and at the size of smart plug that they make, it's just not enough space for proper heat dissipation. At least, that's my opinion when we're talking about long term use. That Midea one has been bulletproof. I just turned it off with my voice this morning and that's after leaving it disconnected for about 6 months. :)

I gotta get a bit deeper on those Shelly's...you know, they've been sly with me on specs and certifications. I really just wish they and Sonoff would share their certification data so we could be sure about the safety.

@@AutomateYourLife won't lie, it is cagey to nail down. A month ago, when you would go to their site, you could see a Shelly 2.5 with a UL Listed certification. Plus, a Shelly 2.5 without the UL Certification. That baffled me so I asked. They said there was no design difference. Just a deviation between lot numbers before and after certification was granted. It appears now that all the non-UL 2.5's are gone. Only the certified ones remain. The frustrating thing is that this is ONLY for the 2.5 Others are still undergoing evaluation an so SOME Shelly devices are UL certified, some are not. All meet the European Certification requirements which is quite similar, but insurance companies are picky and I would only use the UL Certified devices.

Yep...I've had this back and forth with them a couple times. Not touching it guys... certification must be there. I know far too well how certification ensures levels of safety that are necessary for electrical gear. I've seen too much exploded switchgear

@@AutomateYourLife yeah, I need to see that UL stamp or it's a no-go. Still, you should give the UL certified ones a deeper looksie. I sure would be interested in your thoughts!

And that's a great idea Ben, just make sure you get that visual confirmation that everything's OK with that heater. Nothing on it, right?

@@AutomateYourLife Yup! We mostly only schedule an extra 30 minutes of run time when going to bed, then have it turn on 30 minutes before our alarm goes off in the morning, and we do it by voice every night. I refuse to add it to a scheduled routine or anything where I can't be sure of it's state or know someone will be in the house when it turns on.

Yep! Everyone's a bit worried about the engineering behind it and the safety

I think you want to really oversize the smart plug vs the size of the heater. Then you always want visual confirmation of that heater having nothing on it or being tipped over. My advice is still don't do it

There is a little hack that would make a fairly safe way to automate a cheap space heater. Contactors. They're usually rated at 30 amps or more and can safely handle a space heater. Get a contactor with a 120v control coil, and wire any cheap old WiFi outlet to it. I did something similar using a contactor and a sonoff wifi switch to control a 5000 watt garage heater.

In many cases it could, yep!

Hey Mike. You could do this with a lot of systems but those kinds of automations aren't 100%. Please make sure you're being safe and have a visual or physical way to verify that the plug turns off. Alexa routines can wait 15 minutes and then turn off the plug after turning it on. Meross has a nice feature that allows turning off of their devices after being on for X time. Lots of apps could do it! SmartThings, Hubitat. All the hubs :)

@@AutomateYourLife Brian , thank you so much for the info !

In Canada and the US too! Thank you!

Hey David - You still have some risk but you've definitely lowered it considerably by lowering the overall usage of amperage. Remember though, you're still creating heat in all the components!

Thanks Andrew. We're actually seeing resistive/inductive load ratings show up now on smart plugs. I think folks have started to catch on!

@@AutomateYourLife LED lights have massive startup up currents when first powered on just for a fraction of a second, this seems to be causing problems with smart plug contacts. Also I am finding that some smart plugs here in the UK are allegedly rated to “13A” but it is a 10A relay inside the smart plug. So here in the UK it has a maximum loading of 2400W or 1200W in the USA. I would never use a smart plug for any heating application, it’s just too risky. How long does a smart plug last you? I have got some here lasted 12months to 3years. Tapo Smart plugs are a 12-18month life span, Meross 2-3years. My advice to anyone is use smart plugs for light loads, no lighting or heating. Sorry this reply was so long. 👍🏻👍🏻🤣😂🤣 TFI FRIDAY!

So, an in-wall outlet could have the same issues, but a good one should be produced from a hardware perspective the same as other "normal" outlets you have in your home. I think you're safer here, but please buy quality from a maker that normally produces outlets!

@@AutomateYourLife Thanks Brian, much appreciated. I've picked up a TP-Link Kasa KP200. The reviews are great but your video has me concerned. Thoughts?

@@NVMTB @automateyourlife In the same boat. Can we get a reply here AYL?

Hi Dave, sadly to make a full recommendation on something that's going to be safe, I'd have to see companies' damage curves. Not one company I've seen publishes those and that means I have to stay safe for you all. The short answer is no, the long answer is someone needs to prove that they can do it, publicly.

@@AutomateYourLife...makes perfect sense....Iblive in Greece and we all have these great AC/ heat inverters here. I've had two wifi plugs melt on me🤬🤬🤬

@@Dave-In-Greece be careful my friend!

@@AutomateYourLife Absolutely...thanks 💯💯💯

Ohhhh, I'm glad this has helped! Yeah, I felt like it was time to really dig deep and try and tackle something VERY technical. Let's hope we can find something that works for us and can keep us safe. I feel like the tech exists today, it just hasn't been made.

I would recommend that if you're seeing a plug overheat already, that you stop. Seriously. As soon as that fail safe doesn't work, you could start a fire.

Ok, if you're directly into the wall this SHOULD be OK. If you are using a 2 socket smart plug, you need to be very careful. This whole video explains how a smart plug could explode with that kind of load on it. That's likely an inductive load and will heat the plug. My advice is don't do it if that's what you're doing. Just don't use a smart plug with the heater. If you're going directly into the wall, a properly designed home trips after you go above the 15 amps max for most circuits. There could be a delay, but you have protection in your home's breaker.

I would do it here. Shut it off after 20 minutes use or something

Certain Smart plugs let you turn off at certain power levels too. So maybe if it goes to an idle mode you turn it off. You'll have to test it out

Yep! Great use case, but you always gotta make sure nothing is on that heater! Visual confirmation right!?

Yes Jason great idea

Love the IT crowd profile picture

Theres a guy who knows his stuff. CT talk and everything!😀

Glad to hear that! I really tried!

It's going to be hard to advise you here. There's a lot that goes into the situation. Fuses can sometimes be better, but they have a "damage curve" just the same as the graphs you're seeing here. Some are fast acting and pop quickly, but I've also seen fuses not "pop" when they should. I think the question is if you really need to automate that Dyson.

I did. Aeotec has one. It's a bit older and requires a Z-Wave hub. But I remember it being 50 amp

Well the SmartThings and Smart Life integration has just expanded and works with more devices, so definitely through that!!

@@AutomateYourLife Sorry, you miss understood the question, I know I know use Smart life through Smartthings, My question is, would it be better using Smartlife direct or use it through Smartthings, the reson im asking, is I have in Google 3 of each light now, as I have the smart life the smartthings and then googles lol, so when I ask to turn one light off it says turn off 3 lights lol, which isn't to much of a problem, where I have the problem is with Bond, when it turns the fan off it turns it back on because it send the signal out more than once. TIA

Ahhhhhhh, tough question to answer in comments. I think with the Bond what I'd do is take one of those devices and just move it to another "home" in the Google Home app from SmartThings. Especially since it sounds like you have a gap in time on control. In general though, I would say there's not enough in the SmartLife -> SmartThings integration to use that method. So go to Google with those devices and maybe move the SmartThings ones out to a separate home.

@@AutomateYourLife Thanks bud, right now all the duplicates I've just put a Z in from of the name, them put them all in a room of their own, and called it Z-Room lol other wise I end up with 3 or th4 same device in the same room, But I just thought of Unlinking Bond and Smartlife from google and controlling the devices through Smartthings,

I believe Aeotec's got a version that's meant for bigger loads like this. Check with them on your use case though, that's a bit of an intense one...

Isn't that guy just the best??? Maybe I need to ask him to do this one too. So the actual outlets should be rated to handle this, but even those I'd have to look at damage curves on and understand if my breaker was protecting it. But again, they should theoretically be protected by a standard 15A breaker

This is still something that could cause the same phenomenon we're talking about Travis. However, I think you're talking about lower amperage in general. I'd say with a 15 Amp smart plug and a normal usage of 7-8 Amps on one you'd be OK most of the time. I also wouldn't leave it on all night, k? Still, watch it and check for heating. Don't forget too, over time heating can increase on smart plugs.

@@AutomateYourLife absolutely! Makes sense. And I have the kind of heating pad that does auto shut-off after 2 hours. I just want to also make sure I have the ability to "kill" all power to it even after it shuts itself off. Does that make it better?

Sadly, fuses are very similar to breakers. The difference being that they get physically burned out vs a breaker which can be reset. They still have a curve for how they burn out, so that means the same theory applies. You need to know when and how they burn out and make sure your smart plug is being protected.

@@AutomateYourLife Thank you! Does the 220-240 volt thing help? I used your formula for 2000 Watts / 220v to get what seemed a decently low amperage. Am I doing that right?

Yeah so the 240 volt thing does bring down amperage. That's great too, and that helps with heating. W / V approximates Amps. It's not exact, but good enough for what we're doing here. There's something called power factor involved in that conversion.

I think as long as your smart plug can handle the microwave for a while (upsize the Wattage vs the microwave wattage as much as you can) then I think you'll be OK here because microwaves don't tend to run for very long time periods like heaters do. Still, I'd have an auto-shut off planned somewhere on this.

You know, I've had amazing luck with Aerogarden period. Otherwise, I might put a standard grow light on a smart switch. I think you'd be just fine there :)

I think you're talking about measuring expected current flow and therefore figuring out how your devices normally perform. Then you're talking about setting O/C protection and hopefully doing it at the right levels for the device you're using. I like that approach because that's how industry does it. They just measure devices before they go out the door and go into use. I would say 2.5 kW is a big difference from 2 kW though, so maybe tighten that up. Things get out of hand quick in the world of electricity. So yeah! Lots of benefit in reporting current flow! Just consider where your O/C protection kicks in vs the types of graphs you saw here today.

Huh...That's REALLY annoying. I don't know why they'd struggle so much. Obviously you've tried things like a full factory reset and bringing them closer to the Eero right? It's also possible now maybe a setting in Eero isn't allowing connection of those...maybe it's a security thing.

@@AutomateYourLife no clue Brian, tried everything. But, this might be a rookie mistake and lesson for others.. not saying that it is. Another addon to your video about beginning of this journey etc.. I have a one special character in my wifi password, it might be that these plugs won't see your wifi with it. I have so many devices added that changing a password to something else and adding them all would be another day taken out of my life, not even gonna try. But broadlink rm4 pro didn't connect either, where it says something about special characters in its manual. This might be the issue

Oh very interesting...something to test! Although I do have characters...

EEP! Yeah even with the lower amps this can still happen hey? Scary stuff but good to hear you have the cap in the way there to at least help that inrush smooth out. Now let's get you a VFD and REALLY smooth that out.

@@AutomateYourLife I had to google what a VFD was but yeah that looks like it would save my powerpoint if the capacitor fails again :) The pump comes with the 400volt capacitor from the factory to help inrush - and they enclosed it seperatly inside a plastic enclosure mounted to the pump - When i saw it blown up i realised why its stored in a enclosure lol it really went in a big way (melted and end blown off lol) included a link to a photo of it blown up if your really bored lol ibb.co/BcnbB3k

PS - Just like to say thanks for all the videos - your the reason i got into home automation a few months ago hahahah. My spearpoint pump is actually running off a tuya smart plug these days and runs on a automatic schedule. I also changed it so google thinks its a fan (which allows me to tell it to turn the sprinklers on for 30minutes without google saying it wont as it cant schedule switches- I learned that trick from you as well hahahah) Cheers and have a top day up there, from downunder (australia)

Oh that made my day sir! Cheers from the frozen tundra of Canada!😛

It happens to so many. Just glad you're safe!!

Have a look at igenix, they do sell on Amazon but sell convection heaters with smart functionality built in at a reasonable price.

Same but it's not really something that is easy to check. I didn't see any warnings on the device or on the Samsung website. All I see is it can handle up 1800 watts / 15 amp and oil heater is 1500 watt. Mine melted too. I guess I'm going to try to go the smart wall socket route.

I don't disagree at all. Inrush has to be handled, as well as heat dissipation for ratings.

Without knowing what you're plugged into I can't tell ya much!

@@AutomateYourLife my smart plug is plugged into wall socket ...is it safe if the smart plug left on but turned off using phone ..i mean like the socket will be on so does the smart plug ...but turned off using phone

Thank you sir!

Yep! So I haven't seen a lot of good smart space heaters, which is why I talked about the Dyson there. It does both and has some additional protections!

@@AutomateYourLife I was actually considering if my pedestal fan I have on a smart plug would eventually cause a problem. It's just a typical three speed fan by Lasko, but motors do have a coil and they heat up. So wasn't sure if it would ever get to the point I'd need to be concerned. It's the only device on that plug, and so far nothing has been hot when I've touched either one.

@@macinman you should be fine with fans. They actually have a very different inrush than bigger heaters and it's usually a lot easier to run :) Your fan will have a length of time it's allowed to run continuously for though. They always do!

Yeah, so I'm going to reiterate that you should be careful with that. :)

I'm not adverse to the idea. I'll look into it! Thanks Greg

You'll find something Philly!

@@AutomateYourLife Oh I believe you. Thank you. I didn't know. I have two electric radiators on Kasa plugs 🔌. One upstairs and one in my Man 💪🏾Cave. I don't want my home burning down. Thanks for making me aware. I do have my heaters on automation timers ⏲️. Meaning, once it reaches a certain degree it shuts off automatically. It only comes on if the temp drops too low. All thanks to SmartThings. Which I found out about from you, Brian.

@@PhillyDjHook "YOU! OKAY! I learned it from YOU! "

It all depends. They usually heat up with a good inrush too as they're heating a ceramic element usually to do the heating. So it's pretty similar depending on the design right?

@@AutomateYourLife I would think oil is a more efficient cooling medium than air. Is this something you could measure with a Kill-A-Watt or something?

A coffee maker is a lot lower amperage in general, and a lot lower time that it's using any amount of real power. So I'd say you're good with that one sir!

Ahahahhahaa, I'm glad someone caught that!!

Sorry, but the idea is that the ratings aren't explained well enough to make an assumption. So only get plugs that say they can handle the type of load you're after.

I don't know enough about any of what you just said to determine that. Your heater could be many kinds, I don't know your power system, and I don't know the specs on the plug

He represents alot for me. :). I'll explain more as we go, but today it's about charging through life!

It's going to be a similar situation. There are smart plugs rated for this though for sure, especially at 220V. What I'd try to do for your setup there is to make sure your miner is protected first, and smart second. :) You want that GPU protected from brownout/surge.

@@AutomateYourLife Thank you. What kind of protection do you mean?

More like power cleaning. A good signal cleaning ups is likely more help to your wallet and life

That's a pretty general question that I'd have trouble answering. In general, that's a pretty low wattage so in terms of a smart plug handling that it should be fine. However, it will still cause all the issues OVER time that were discussed in this video, and you still have a very hot surface to contend with!

Lol but the point is you shouldn't choose any

@@AutomateYourLife not really true. I've been using an heater on a TP-Link hs110 without any issues for the last 3 years. (but this might be an Europe certification thing though)

Having it work for a number of years doesn't change the opportunity for trouble. I'm pretty familiar with EU standards, and actually in most cases, North American ones are much more stringent. Just be careful.

@@AutomateYourLife It does :) Further more in EU we do have a mandatory certification (CE) that certifies the security of such devices. you can read more about it here: europa.eu/youreurope/business/product-requirements/labels-markings/ce-marking/index_en.htm and here ec.europa.eu/growth/sectors/electrical-engineering/lvd-directive_en#:~:text=EU%20legislation%20in%20the%20electrical,75%20V%20for%20direct%20current. Oposed to USA that does not require any certification for such (electrical) products (certification-experts.com/knowledgebase/what-is-the-difference-between-usa-compliance-and-ce/) I guess USA is not so stringent at all... Just be careful I guess :)

What you sent is technically accurate, but in any retail store in the US/Canada, you're going to find ONLY CSA/UL/etc. certified products. It's only the world of online that has allowed products without those certifications into people's homes. This is an additional problem and one I hope to address on the channel, actually. I've received a few products that don't have those certifications, and when I do, I tell Amazon and the product is instantly de-listed. They know it's wrong, but haven't found a way to control it yet. FYI - Those products didn't have CE listings either, so I don't think this is an N.A. problem only! However, the CEC in Canada and the NEC in the US both state the requirements for electrically connected devices and in order to be certified, you need to meet those standards. Depending on your device, you may need to meet additional IEEE, CSA, or other governing body certifications. For example, arc flash is handled by IEEE 1584 and CSA Z462 in Canada. NFPA has their own standard for arc flash in the US. So, to get a UL/etc. certification, the product has to meet all that. It's a LOT. What I'm saying is the actual meat of the standard is more stringent in the US/CAN vs EU's CE certification. That's an in general statement of course and there are parts where you could find the CE's guidance to be better, and others where the NEC is better.

Glad you do! Thanks!

There's a biiiiiiiiig gap there! I think most manufacturers are simply staying away from a use case that won't look good in the end.

Should be just fine!

True. True. True. You gotta watch power strips just the same!

@@AutomateYourLife exactly!

😀😀

I'm glad you read those! Most...don't

The issue with aquariums is really just the risk of getting wet. There's no issue there if you can assure that the plug remains dry.

@@loganfisher3138 the filters, they can burn your plug.

Yup

Oh thanks! I don't know why that escaped me then LOL

Even then Lorne...even then.

@@AutomateYourLife You may be right. I had some die that were underrated. It only took a couple of hours in most cases and they were very overheated but not on fire or melted. I have 5 running (Meross) with not even an overheating issue. To be clear they rarely run for more than 40 minutes at a time (that's why I have so many.) My situation may be different than others.

Same problem

Some not even that 😄😄

Short answer is maybe. Details are in the video.

That would be the same conversation though! Don't think you're safe just cause it's a strip!

@@AutomateYourLife Are any of us really safe though?

😁😁😁😁

If I was to summarize...yeah

Even the highest quality ones I've seen can run into this. Please be sure before you trust your home to a smart plug in this situation.

Ohhhh but it's so common! Like it's one of the first things people try when getting into a smart home.

I would be a nervous wreck... I worry about leaving the toaster plug in when not in use... Lol but thats just me

Not just you! Did you see the level of paranoia I just showcased? 🤣🤣🤣