Why So Many Students Drop Out Of German Universities 

Finally someone says it. German Uni is hard. I went to Cambridge, Oxford and ENS Paris, but both mass universities I've been to in Germany have been much harder. And I'm talking about the humanities! Don't underestimate mass uni in Germany :)

Don’t forget that your study ends after 3 failed exams. (Edit in one course, not gernerally)

A comment on the thing you said about the first exams are the hardest at around 2:00 . In my experience the first exams seem pretty hard and have the highest failing rates. But the exams in higher semester are equally hard, but the fail rate is better because the below average students are already gone. So the exams are pretty much the same each semester.

Worst Thing is that when you live in Germany, People still tell you this Kind of Fairytale of University being the best Time of your Life where you have a lot of Free Time, collect Tons of new Experiences due to supposedly having a lot of Free Time and make Friends for Life, but when you actually start going you instead get an overwhelming Amount of Work and everything but that since People also come from a lot of different Places (I study in the Western Palatinate, but come from the Saar Region, some others do too but we live far apart in different Towns or Villages, we have someone from Brandenburg, a lot of People come from Baden-Württemberg too, Hesse or Northrhine-Westphalia and one Guy even comes from Central France. It's basically the polar Opposite of what you are made to think it's going to be.

As someone who has studied physics for 2 semesters at the University of Duisburg and Essen, I've personally witnessed and lived through hell in the 1st half of the year. The demands, even though you only had 4 classes to attend, were to some degree insane. The amount of hours I've had to put in just to be permitted for the exam is uncountable, especially as someone who isn't as gifted as some of the students were, also not to mention covid and that the school programs vary from school to school, which means that some were prepared a bit better for the hell in comparison to others(started as 100 people in the beginning, only saw about 35 during the exams). After 2 semesters I decided to change the major and the school and honestly it was one of the better decisions I have ever made.

I am one of the German university students who dropped out to start their career off instead with Ausbildung (a more practical job training and qualification). I underestimated what it means to study Computer Science. Unless you are really really passionate about abstract Maths, this is pure torture.

Traditional academic universities in Germany are rigorous/un-compromising. This is uniformly true across all, even in low-ranking, "unknown" universities, unlike other countries where there might be a big discrepancy in difficulty and grading between elite and ordinary universities. I know a friend who was doing bachelor's in physics at a "no name" university, and applied for an internship at University of Cambridge. Even the professor there was surpised that we learnt pretty advanced maths in 2nd year undergraduate physics (Lie algebras, representation theory). The problem is not academic rigour, but lack of support (depending on student size). I went to a very small university and could get in touch with professors more easily. Still, people regularly dropped-out from programs, due to changing interests or wanting something more hands-on (e.g. at applied universities (FH) or work placement (Duales Studium). This is perfectly fine because there is no financial pressure to finish a program which doesn't suit you. The society also doesn't need everyone to master abstract theories or become a thinker/researcher.

Actually the admission free degrees are quite advantageous. U don’t get punished for not having perfemormed perfectly in Highschool. So everybody get a chance and the most ambitious people deserve the chance to continue the degree and not the one with the best Highschool grades. In addition it’s nice that anybody can take a look inside the first semester of a degree and decide to continue or not ( but yeah u have to prove it in the first 2 )

I dropped out of Uni Stuttgart and went to Uni Basel in 🇨🇭. One of the best choices in my life. The Swiss system is not so different but very practical oriented in grading students. Plus there are only 17 students in my data Sc program and around 80 in the whole Mathematik und Informatik dept. As an Indian who now has studied in 🇨🇭,🇮🇳,🇸🇬,🇩🇪 universities, I honestly think unless you are studying something that you like and wish to pursue a career in, any course in any Uni in any country will be too challenging and strenuous.

In Italy is the same, in first year of computer engineering we were 250 students, 2 years later only about 80 of us "survived"; and also mine is supposed to be a 3-year degree but the analytics of my course at my uni say that on average it takes people 6 years to graduate because of those first crazy exams😢

The German education system is divided into three tranches, but it is very transparent and permeable even after training. I am the perfect example of this. At the age of 14, I finished my primary school education. For family reasons, I then had to take up an apprenticeship and train as a cook. I broke off this apprenticeship because, as I will explain in a moment, it did not suit my talents. I then learned the profession of radio and television technician, which I practiced for about 4 years. After that, the German state allowed me to catch up on my intermediate school leaving certificate (BAS) and then I was also allowed to catch up on my high school diploma (BOS). During this time, I received financial support from the state so that I could concentrate on school. After graduating from high school, I began studying computer science and mathematics at the Technical University of Munich, which I successfully completed. I then got a doctoral position at the TUM (Technical University of Munich) and completed this course with a Dr. rer. nat. (Phd) The German state tries to promote talent and does so with great success.

I graduated from TUM doing my masters in computer science. I think you raise an important point that the university does seem to accept anyone meeting the basic requirements, but isn't very selective. I can see the merit behind this, however in my experience it also sucks because in uni, you typically do group projects, or perhaps network with people and so on, but I found many people in my masters program that lacked even the basics, as well as just not having any interest. So I think this policy can be detrimental to the student. Additionally, there are some points one can talk about when critiquing German universities. I think the education system itself is old/backwards, in most universities around the world, the coursework is divided among a final exam, midterm, quizzes, assignments, projects if applicable, etc. often times the final exam has a weight of 35-40%. In my experience in TUM all courses gave a 100% for the final exam :) I think it simply makes more sense to evaluate the student on their performance along the whole semester and not just the final exam. Not to mention, the final exam itself often relies on memorizing (you hear the phrase "learn by heart" a lot), I also didn't notice this in other unis. All in all, this is my personal experience as well as my personal opinion, but I believe there can definitely be some reforms to the German higher education system.

This is true for the Netherlands too. At my uni, we took 8 different subjects every week, for 10 weeks. The last 2 weeks were for the final project that was about something almost completely different that what we studied for the past 8 weeks. We also had a final test every week alongside taking a new subject + working on the subject project that's due in the weekend + 4-3 day practicals + 10-20 or more homeworks + weekly calculus courses (sometimes we get two tests a week, math and the program subject) International students had only 1 chance at resits, and failing them meant getting their Visas revoked. One class started out with 100 students, and now it has 17. Yes, 17. It's the first year.

There are some Points you missed: - If you want to change your Degree and recieving BAföG, you need to drop out before the 3rd Semester to continue recieving it. - You don't need a Degree in Germany for a good Career. People learning a Craft (in the widest Sense) often earn as much as many People with a Degree.

A major aspect is also the alternatives to university in Germany. People could also choose to go with proper job training instead, which many countries do not offer in such a broad way.

Finished my computer science degree, lots of people just enrolled for the money and were not able to identify AT ALL. They simply didn't enjoy the topics and therefore had no motivation, which eventually led to their dropout. Even though university in Germany is almost free cost-wise, you should carefully consider your decision, after all you are investing your time. It has been very demotivating to see that lots of people just didn't care about anything and were not into tech, didn't contribute to group projects and overall were dissatisfied. Even though it therefore was often rough, I still can say with 100% certainty that Computer Science was the right choice for me and that this is NOT only a job, but also my private life and my hobby. I don't need much, therefore money isn't too important for me and I am glad that I can fully identify with my course of studies and job and hope it will always stay like that!

Dropped out in the first semester because my Grandpa has cancer and they wouldnt allow me to put another semester to the basic seven to have time to care for him and be there for him in his probably last months when he is one of the reasons i got this far. The profs and some students even kinda said: Your carreer is more important just let that old boomer die, money and science is more worth than a Human life. So i said to myself: Im a student that aces every grad but Family cant be buyed with money. If it wouldnt be for my gradpa i would probably be without a job and probably would never gotten out of my depressen. He showed me the fun of gardening work and kinda what to live for. And guess what...i got a job with great salary now with a lot of trust and Responsability reserved usually for Engineers (i still got the knowledge just not the nice paper). You just have to look for mid sized Companies instead of the Large Corps like Porsche or Mercedes. And in a few years i go for the "Techniker" a Title similar to an Engineer. And now i still have time to care for my Grandpa and i never want to go back to a University. Money can buy you a lot but Family, Love and Real Friends are things that cant be bought.

Thank you for your time, actually I spend my whole childhood in Germany and then before highschool started I came back...Now I'm planning to go again after college and I know lots of things changed there- all I'm doing now is to keep my german language fluent till now

Finally a video about how hard german student lifes are. Its normally always about japanese or other asian students how hard they have it.

Unfortunately, too many people study in Germany who are in fact not capable of doing so. That's why there are high drop-out rates. Many would be better off in vocational training (Ausbildung) that is more practically oriented. You can also earn very well with an Ausbildung degree. Unfortunately, it is wrongly said that studying is better than doing an Ausbildung, but that certainly is not true.

i am currently studying biochem at TUD and finding the curriculum challenging, but giving up on my dream is not an option.

I had very low grades at school which is why i love the admission free system, They give you the chance, even if you sucked at school, and in electrical engineering at TU Berlin, I thrived where others failed, I already knew failure but most students that had good grades get mentally shocked when they can't believe there are people who are better than them

I always said the hardest part of studying is organising you studies. Figuring out what you need to do and in which order and managing your time well is the most difficult. Once you get a hang of that and it will get a lot easier and manageable. I can tell you that usually it is only the first through third semester that is the hardest, at least in engineering. They teach you the basics and little about the actual topic. Once you make it past the third or maybe forth semester it usually get easier. Not because the classes are easier, but because you get used to the methodology.

I quit my business administration studies at LMU Munich after semester 4 (should have taken this decision after semester 3) and changed to another university at which I successfully graduated. What I have to say about the first 3 semesters: The workload wouldn’t have been that crazy if there weren’t that many repetitive subjects. Many professors just wanted to hear EXACTLY what they wrote down in their scripts. If you weren’t able to repeat almost the exact same sentence, you failed the exam. For me, exactly these subjects were the challenging ones as it just consumed too much time to learn each sentence one by one - I therefore failed several times in these subjects. As you only have max. 8 semesters to finish your bachelor degree, the pressure got too high for me and I decided for a restart. All subjects which focused on deeper understanding, I didn’t have problems. So from my point of view: The bachelor system also plays a significant role as it’s too much focusing on repetitive learning. I wish there would be more time to deeply dive into a topic, but that’s sadly not the case in German university bachelor programs.

Kinda the same in Belgium (at least for technical fields) : minimal requirements for entry and huge dropout rates. Studied in computer science 10 years ago, with 200+ person plus some extras who joined after their bachelor's to do their master's with us. We were less than 40 to graduate

My experience was the same in the beginning of year 2000 I started my (one of the last diploma-) Fachhochschul-studies with 100 students in Semester 1. Math, Physics and stuff was crazy and workload was high which made 60 less convinced/motivated students leave until semester 2. It was good to get rid of all these people because in Semester 1 our lessons were frequently disturbed by loud chatter and laughter. From Semester 2 on it was quiet and we could finally focus on our subjects

German here. I had a friend who first trained as an industrial mechanic before going to university. He told me that his first semester was very easy for him because he had already learned a lot in his vocational training.

I want to point out the pressure only applies to certain degree programmes. It´s mainly the big STEM / MINT and engineering bachelor degrees that use "Rauswurfklausuren" (very hard exams to make sure a lot of people fail them to ensure there is enough capacity for future courses). Some exams even get graded compared to your competition. I personally have completed a STEM / MINT bachelor degree at RWTH Aachen University (Yep, that one is also known for insane exams, just like TUM) and still doing my masters degree there as well, but my degree is different: It has an NC (Numerus Clausus) / not-admission free / "zulassungsbeschränkter Studiengang". You basically need a specific average grade on your Abitur / highschool diploma to even get into the Bachelor´s programme in the first place (the required grade depends on how big the capacity is and the pool of applicants for that degree in this specific year), same for a "zulassungsbeschränkter Masterstudiengang" where your average bachelor grade has to be good enough to get into the programme. This meant that there were roughly 100 people at all starting a new degree each year, not couple of hundreths if not thousands like the engineering degrees. While I admit University expects a lot from you and you will have to spend a lot of time on your degree, I personally have never seen one of those Rauswurfklausuren myself. The highest I ever encountered was 40% fail rate, and then maybe 20% fail rate for the 2nd worst (mostly Bachelor exams in the first 1-3 semesters). Those exams usually expected us to get at least 50% of all available points to pass (grade 4.0). What I want to tell you with this: It entirely depends on your chosen field and even the very specific degree programme that can vary vastly between universities. Inform yourself before you do your programme and compare them between the different universities (at least when you are willing to move, for me personally it was clear what universities were my only options).

As someone that was sorted out in the first year by this system, I am grateful that it is that way. It made me stop and think "do I really want this?" and I cant imagine what I would be like today, had I decided to push through.

Same in Austria. 100 % true. In the first semester, after 3 weeks we had our first mandatory exam with 80 % failing rate. After 7 weeks a lot of people failed the 2nd mandatory exam of the same course and therefore had to repeat the course in the following year. (if you fail 2 out of 3 mandatory exams of a course you have drop out of the course and have to repeat it) You get homework and have a mandatory exam every 2 weeks. In addition in the end of the semester you get a big exam for every subject but you can skip that exam and do it later. You actually could do the exam also during the semester, nobody cares when you take your big exam. You could for example study during the summer break or just study a few years longer because there is no fee for university it is no problem to stay enrolled for many years and do your big exams. Average study time for this field is 7 years but it is not uncommon to study 9 years.

Can confirm every single point he made. I studied physics for three semesters at RWTH. German final school exams is very easy compared to other countries, so I excelled and thought it was going to be easy. Oh boy was I wrong. This semester i switched to Computer engineering science but feeling like a complete failure really hurt.

Most Universities also offer intro courses and orientation weeks. Some Orientation weeks are meant to help you choose the correct study program for you, others will help prepare you for a specific program. I strongly urge evey new student to visit both of those, if possible also at multiple universities. It might look like a lot of work / time wasted, but they are most of the time organized by students, and meant to start you off by socializing with other new students, as well as give you an overview over what you can study and how you can study.

I studied physics in Germany myself and it is by far one of the hardest subjects to study. I know most people want to believe that every subject is similar in difficulty but that is just not the case. Around 80% of our physic students left in the first two semesters and most of them started studying something different. Most of them felt like a huge burden had been taken from them and their new subject was much easier and more relaxed. Many people rate German universities pretty low because we do not have "elite universities" like many other countries. The overall quality of our academic landscape is still pretty good though. The biggest difference is the amount of money that is put into your academic field. German universities usually do not get money from super rich ex-students but are publicly funded. That is why some German universities really struggle financially.

Hey Max - first time viewer and your experiences sound VERY familiar! Happy to see you are enjoying your new degree. I also studied physics at LMU a couple of years ago, right after graduating from high school. I wasnt good in school, because I was kinda arrogant and thought that I would just start to learn, when its really worth learning, like at university. Which was absoutely stupid. I got blown away by the workload of the first two semesters. Everyone was struggeling and they said, after the 3rd semester, it would be easier and also more fun because we could start to specialize. Dropped out after the 3rd semester. Its embarrassing, but I didnt even take a single exam. I always got so stressed before exams that I couldnt sleep for days and was seriously getting stomach problems. Was the best decision ever. Moved to another city. Took a half year off, started studying geosciences. Also very hard the first semester with a huge workload, even more than in physics actually. But as you said, it was also more practical. Finished my bachelors during corona, a bit later. Now writing my master thesis in planetary geodynamics. I wanted to do something with astrophysics, so It kinda all worked out for me. Hope it will also work out for you.

I think another aspect to all of this, which ties into the "practicality" aspect and the high standards and feeling overwhelmed, is that we also have the option to do an apprenticeship instead. I am doing an apprenticeship in software development (I also dropped out of high school due to mental health issues, because I knew that I had an alternative option), but most people I've met in my apprenticeship are in fact not people who dropped out after 10th grade and immediately went into the apprenticeship because they already knew exactly that they wanted this career path. No, the VAST majority of the people I've met are somewhere between 21 and 26 (with one out of 30 still being 17 at the start of the apprenticeship and some people even being in their 30s, married and with children) and had started studying something like computer science and were either overwhelmed or just realised that this wasn't a good way for them to learn. Others had started or even finished their degrees in things like sociology and then didn't know what to do with such a pretty useless degree. And then of course there are also those who went through several different career paths and ended up here.

In Psychology it was hard, but in a different way. Here, the admission requirements were extremely hard (Abitur of 1,4 or better). The courses itself where not that hard, BUT we were put on an extremely high pressure regarding grades - basically anything worse than 1,7 was not good enough in order to have chances to get a decent Master. I personally have a grade of 1,63 for my Bachelor, which is just under the average of Psychology Bachelors in Germany (1,68). And since many Masters do have a Numerus Clausus of 1,2 or 1,4, it's hard (if not nearly impossible) to get accepted. I am looking for a Master in a familiar field rn, as these usually have a NC of 2,5 and Psychology students have very good grades in comparison to students of other Bachelors.

TUM ranks 4th in Germany and 79th in the world. For CS, it ranks 17th worldwide. I don’t know about Europe, but in the US, when you study at top universities, you will see that their course curricula are more challenging and expensive. Additionally, in the US, we don’t have free education like you do over there. We have to pay a lot of tuition fees. When things are cheaper or free, people may tend to take things lightly, but in college or university, you need to have a basic understanding of the subject before enrolling in classes. Remember, you are not in high school anymore. You have to do things on your own. Nobody is going to babysit you when you are an adult and in university.

I would like to add a few of my cents as a graduated physicist and now PhD student at the RWTH University. First thing out of the way, most of the video is correct, most of the things described apply to the RWTH as well. Many science courses don't have any (difficult) entrance exams at all, physics for example. The "extremely difficult" first semesters are by design, but they are rarely unfair (in physics at least), i.e. the subjective feeling of something "extremely difficult" has two sides: The difficulty of the exam and the skill level of the student. Our secondary school system, the Abitur, frankly sucks. It is getting worse every year and is underpreparing students for the workload and the mindset that needed for engineering and science. In fact you see a massive decline in drop-out rates after the first two semesters. This has nothing to do with the curriculum itself but everything with the students' study habits. The downsides of this filtering system are obviously that students loose time until they realize that they aren't made for university, on the other hand this process is much more rigorous (and under the student's control) than a single entrance exam. You experience alot more during a whole semester and the sum of all parts shows you a better picture in my opinion. Edit: Some more statistics about physics (at the RWTH): about 16% of all first-semester students pass all exams in the first two semesters, and one or more failed exams during that period increases the likelihood of dropping out by a whopping 40% (forgot the source sorry).

admission-free colleges would be similar to community College here in the US. Many people drop out because they’re not ready for college despite being easier than a 4 year university. I went to one and I took Calculus, Biology, chemistry etc and this is where around >50% of students failed this classes. After 2 years you have to transfer to a 4 year university since Community college are only for 2 years and many people drop put before this or no University admits them because of their low grades and only a handful are capable of finishing and transferring. For my school only 33% graduated and the number of people successfully transferring is even lower

I too when I came here in October 22 heard a lot about how difficult the degree is and how so many of my seniors are struggling. But, I say this with all humility after 3 sems and completing all my modules apart from thesis, that its not as hard it was made out to be. It's just the atmosphere of negativity and pessimism that gets to the new students. All it takes is a bit of planning and a little hard + smart work at the correct time to complete your subjects. All the best guys. Don't be bogged down by the crowd. You guys will do it. But despite all this, I would say that ironically the subject I'm studying is supposed to be practical, but there are not many choices in terms of practical subjects in the modules that can be taken. The ones that are offered have 25 seats for a class of 300 students(per batch). So its kind of mismanaged imo. Also there's not even a mandatory internship available in the course. That is making it hard for a person like me who came here directly after my bachelors for my masters. Despite me having good grades and completing my subjects on time, I'm not getting many job interviews and internship interviews. Its the chicken and egg thing here, were they are taking people who already have experience, but no grades and credits. So, I do feel a bit hopeless that despite working hard I'm not getting the results I want. But, I'll keep working till the lady Luck smiles upon me!

Thank y so much for the video

Same in Belgium KUL. At the introduction we were told "look to your left, look to your right. Only one of you will pass.". It's very easy to start any course, but it's very difficult to pass. I'm in my 3rd year, but I've had to redo courses. If you don't pass the 2nd time you are out. I might have to stop.

I dropped out of a German university as well, but I am still grateful for it. I learned a lot, made good friends and found out uni isnt for me and it doesnt have to be. Thanks to our system of free education I didnt get into crippling debt as well. If you're young you should be able to try stuff out and see what works for you and Germany helped me do that.

A fab video, very helpful 👍🏻

Sounds quite similar to my experience studying in the Czech Republic. Really easy to get even into the most prestigious universities, and tuition is free, but the majority drops out by the end of the first study year. As a foreigner I actually appreciated that approach quite a lot, because in my home country we weren't taught a lot of the stuff that is considered a prerequisite here, meaning that if entry exams were harder I'd have a much harder time getting into a program, and once I was in, I was given the chance to prove myself and catch up, which I did.

Same here in Austria. I have studied in the Montan University and they told us on the frist day, that the chemistry 1B Test has a failure rate of 99%. They werent wrong.. Every year only one or maybe two students would pass on their first try. XD

1. I studied nutrition science and I remember very well that the first 2 semesters were basically as full as a school semester. I had university from 8 to 16 o'clock + learning + doing homework + preparing stuff. 2. It was quite abstract for my subject (you have a lot of mathmatics, phsyics, statistics, non-organic chemistry, botany) and a lot of people with 0 ambitions who just went there "to see how university is" were kicked out really fast. 3. My mom always wanted to force me into a semester job during my first years of college. And I simply had no motivation for that at all. I felt so overwhelmed. Now I know why: German universities are hard. 4. When I waited for an oral test, I met a girl I had never seen before. I asked her what semester she was (I was in my 3rd) and she said in her 7th. I was shocked and she explained, that here supporting money (Bafög) was cancelled and combining a science degree with a job was very difficult and made her studies extremely long.

On the first day at university in Germany older students organized a welcome lecture for us. They told us to look at our neighbor to the right and at our neighbor to the left. "Statistically, it's either the one on the left to drop out, or the other, or maybe it's you." I made it through to the end, but it has to be said that many of the "dropouts" just continue studying something similar. For example, in medical studies they continue with biology. Some of the medical students drop out (or keel over) as soon as they have to cut open their first corpse.

Brother can you make a detailed video about job prospects and application for cs bachelors from public uni .It would be a great help because I can not gather much info on that from my country but i want to make everything sure before coming

Another banger! Let’s goooo

lol, completed bachelor's in physics and doing a master's in computer engineering, Since I love application-level things

I studied 5 Semester Electrical Engineering here in Germany. The first Semester was brutal af, because you first have to learn, how to study. I already had my training as an electrician, and got my Abitur. I moved in a new city, far from "home". After every Day in the university after like 6 Hours, I was studying another 5 hours in the Library, except Wednesday and friday, because I had to go to work. At the end of the Semester I passed 3 exams, Physics, Math and Electronics, each with 3,7. I failed 2 Exams, but I haven't studied them as much as the other 3, and the time during the exams, were really tight. Second Semster was the beginning of covid and my time at the university became a nightmare. I lost my job, my budget was lower, the social interaction was close to zero, I was day and night in my 20m² apartment, my depression came back and all of that, led to the shrinking of my performance. In the 5th Semester, we came back to the university, it wasn't the same anymore as the first Semester, but better than the 3 Semester before that one. But after Christmas holidays, we had to go back to home office, and I already quit studying, when I got that message. I couldn't do it any longer, my psychological state was so bad, I didn't care for anything anymore. 3 Months later I moved to another city, found a job which pays well, my Sister and my Niece live here too and now I am more happy as ever before. To drop out of the University, was the best decision I ever made.

I studied and graduated in Agricultural Sciences in Germany. What I learned in the first few semesters is that we learn very different things for the Abitur in the different federal states. We had students in the first semester who had never learned probability calculation in maths or only had politics but nothing on economics. Not to mention most didn’t have any chemistry in the last 3 years of school at all! I was one of the lucky ones, who had all of these subjects in school. Just to imagine the workload on top of what I already had to do is mind blowing. I doubt I would have been able to graduate like that. In the end out of 76 people starting the semester 18 were left in the last semester and only of them 7 graduated “on time”. Others needed extra semesters. I don’t even know if all of them made it through graduation in the end. Also, having time for part-time work or parties during Uni is a myth. Or you have very patient and rich parents to finance a few extra semesters for you…

"Many are called but few are chosen" philosophy application is being implemented by the German education system. I also applied to a German FH (Applied Science Uni) which offered a master's design program as I hold a bachelor of design degree but faced an immediate rejection before the aptitude test and selection started. In the final decision letter, they mentioned my admission process as a disappointment. Before this, I had to get my document verified by APS in my country since German uni receives large amounts of applicants from India (my home country) & SE Asia which took some time & get an IELTS Academic score of 6.5. Meanwhile, I also had to pay application fees. The total cost of the process is equal to the entry-level salary of a typical working professional in my country.

for international students, the situation is more difficult. you have to find part time jobs which can be difficult if you live in small cities. and if you fail any subject in three attempts your german dream is almost over. i know a guy who spent 5 years in doing bachelors, he has completed his everything including thesis and internship except one subjet. in that suject he failed eventually in his third attempt and then returned to his home country without any degree. another african guy got heart attack after he knew that he failed in third attempts. i myself had failed two attempts in advanced mathmatics but luckily managged to pass in that third attempt. these extreme pressure most of the international student dont know before enrolling in german universities.

I completed a bachelors both in TUM and in another not as well-known technical university in Germany. Both were extremely hard, but TUM was clearly in a league of its own

🇨🇭here, I studied at EPFL, the sister school of ETH Zurich in Lausanne. We started with about 160 people and only 70 graduated the Master (counting all specializations), with a few joining our Master from other Bachelor programs, so I would say only 1/3 of people who started with me made it to the end. Other studies like Architecture are famous for having craaazy workload and sorting out 70%+ of students after 1 year. But, tuition was only 600.-/semester and as long as you have a Swiss highschool diploma you're allowed in, no matter what grades you graduated higschool with. Which means, now my former department has to deal with more like 350-450 first semester students, which means that number tripled in only 15-ish years (yes I am old).

I don’t know if that also applies to other countries but in German Universities, there is also something called GOP which means that you have to pass certain subjects within the first Semesters or otherwise you get kicked out. The difficulty of this strongly varies between Universities, for example in LMU physics it‘s kinda chill whereas in TUM you have to pass a lot of subjects within the first 2 years

I think it is also worth noting that there are a lot of students that sign up for a year or so for the benefits like the semesterticket (student public transport ticket) with no actual intention of studying or completing the degree.

I am currently writing my master thesis in english and history ed. This is the reason why so many students drop out and dont become teachers. The first year was hell. There were moduls that went on for 2 semesters and you had to do them within a year. I felt like history was more relaxed during that time although it had an nc. But all of that changed during the master program. History became hell and atleast 3/18 people in my program decided that they would drop out. They really have the nerve to ask why we have a teacher shortage or why people dont want to study ed.

Now try Switzerland. Up to 50 % of all students drop out in the first year.

That is pretty accurate. I am studying Chemistry right now. However i not only study Chemistry i also have to got through advanced Math, physics and Computer sciences.

I don‘t know why but I absolutely loved my university studies and the system in Germany. (Physics) I found it freeing that anyone can enroll and see for themselves if the degree fits to them. Most of my friends who persevered would eventually graduate, too, even though some exams were difficult. It should be noted that many students also enroll because of „Kindergeld“. As long as one pursues some education program, the state pays the parents money for the child up to the age of 25.

I think the conecpt is awesome! Everyone (with Abitur) can try, but only the people who deserve it will continue. Saves resources and makes sure, that expert in a field are indeed experts (to some degree, exceptions always exist). My experiance was, that the majority left within the first 4 semesters. After that only a couple left.

Well… universities really don’t know why people drop out either. It’s hard to mitigate. Studies on this will be more frequent in the future. First semester exams being very hard is common as, like you said, it makes sense. But at the same time, we need more physicists and mathematicians.

I German language the word for „job“ is „Beruf“ which originates from „Berufung“ which translates to „vocation“. I am thinking that someone should not study just to get a job or just because everyone else studies. Someone should study if he is really interested in the subject of study. My daughter does the Master‘s degree course in chemistry at the University of Gießen, then she is intending to do a doctorate. She has always been curious about how and why things work and she still is. Yes, sometimes she is cursing badly about an experiment or a presentation she is supposed to do, but in general no problems whatsoever.

Exams are always hard, not just in the admission-free programs. My subject had a tough admission restriction and people failed or burned out left and right until 4th semester started. By that point only the hardcore students were left. Not having tuition fees and a low barrier of entry means that quality assurance will kick hard in other ways, not everyone can graduate and that's something our school system adamant on making everyone pass kind of fails to teach. Realizing that something isn't for you or not being able to understand something is normal, it's just sad that people learn it this late when they already invested time and money by moving away from home etc

Started physics bachelor during covid, and in the first two semesters I was happy to leave the house 30min at the weekends. It was super hard. Honestly looking back I don‘t know how i managed the workload of the first 4 semesters. But now 4 years in, its pretty relaxed compared to the beginning

Sorry, I studied physics at RWTH Aachen, a German university actually equally prestigious as TUM. And the dropout rate I remember was even higher. But the exams, workload or level of difficulty was very normal. I can assure you, if you can't master that you have no place in physics. I am rather shocked at the college-like entry level courses at American universities, what a waste of time ...

Yes in Germany university is pretty hard. I studied law at a university where several judges from the highest German court were professors. Almost everyone was allowed to study there. You didn't need good grades or any kind of qualification test. But law students don't get a bachelor or maters degree, they have a "Staatsexamen" for which you have to qualify by passing classes. The "Staatsexamen" consists of only 6 written tests (each 5h) and roughly 2h where you have to answer questions oraly. However, these tests and questions can cover anything you learned during university without being differentiated between subjects (you will get a case that has several pages, your only question is usually "what is the legal position?" and you only know that it is a civil law exam). If you fail this exam, you get a 2nd chance. If you also fail the 2nd chance you are left with your high-school diploma and are not allowed to study law in Germany. Students usually take 1 - 2 years to study AFTER they qualified for attending the "Staatsexamen" (in other words: after having passed all exams at the university). This leads to roughly 50 % of people who drop out before ever taking the "Staatsexamen" and out of those who qualified for the "Staatsexamen" and learnt at least a year for it, 10 - 25 % still fail the exam. After all this time, you are still not allowed to work as a lawyer or a judge, because you need to pass a 2nd "Staatsexamen" which consists of even more tests and is taken while you have to work a a legal trainee at different places (courts, lawyers,...). In these exams, everything you learnt even in the 1st semester can be asked and you have to study while working. Oh and if your grades are below a certain score, you will never be allowed to work as a judge, prosecutor or notary.

I still dont even realy know what i want to study(and only have like 2 months left to decide xd) just that it is some area of computer science with alot of math involved(am quite talented at everything related to math), and hearing about studying in Germany pretty much confims what i know/think about it(like that the beginning is brutal, likely even more so since if i study something that has alot to do with math, I likely wont accept anything less than close to perfection in the exams(but if i dont have fun than thats gonna be pain)), hope i will atleast have some fun doing this.(not just annoyence)

My brother always told me, that tum Munich is much harder than Oxford or Cambridge, couldn't believe it.. but it's really hard - he finished his masters a few years ago, wouldn't do it again. I never went to university, I don't like to learn the whole day haha😂

Because it is free to study some people try it out and realize that it is not for them. It is as simple as that.

Well, you also have to say, enrolling is more or less free and gives you healthcare coverage up to 25 (in most cases). So a lot of people just enroll for fun or to bridge the time until they know what they want to do. If you have to pay a fortune for your studies, you think twice about what you want to do with your time. Honestly at least 30-50% of the students would be better off just doing an Ausbildung right away. But applying for an actual job is much harder than enrolling in an admission free subject. You can also enroll at the Universities of Applied Science, they prepare you better for actual jobs than the "normal" Universities. They should imho be reserved for students who want to go into research. If you ask me, University is still too easy.

Traditional Hungarian and German system are quite similar. 20% knowledge, 80% stress tolerance. If you are good at the latter, you'll probably graduate even if you are not Einstein but merely a hard-working guy. Drop-out rates at Hungarian universities were absurdly high especially in the early 2000s when they set the admission threshold to a ridiculously low level. The universities needed the insane number of students just for the money they get for them, and, after a few semesters, they just let them drop out. Having read some old Oxford exam sheets in my subject area, I found out that they are much more practice-oriented. Moreover, you are free to choose from 2-4 groups of questions. You still have to study a lot, of course.

I can remember that my math professor assumed we know what a complex number is, since it was teached in his school. But it wasn't teached at mine, we had (more) stochastic instead. So he rushed the topic which decimated some students. I barley made it.

In 1978 in Manitoba Canada where science admission was easy, they used the exam to eliminate 60% by Nov as the government subsidies was given by students enrolled which were counted before Nov exams

Roughly 35% of students drop out of university in Quebec - the rest of Canada seems to fare better. 30% drop out of bachelor, 40% out of masters, 50% out of PhD's... I am not sure if it's because Quebec uni's are hard, it might be a combination of several reasons - lack of recognition of university degrees in the job market, lack of opportunities in the job market, cost of life during studies, cost of studies (very low in North America, but still high compared to Europe). What I have seen in engineering studies: exams are made hard, but in a way that creates attrition, without much intellectual, practical or professional justifiability for the difficulty. Same issues apply in other disciplines like nursing...

Tip for everyone, go to a smaller university. We had around 33% who failed the exam.

33%? in France you start the University with 350 students and by the 5th year (Master 2 of Research or Professional Master 2) you'll have only 20-30 of students. it's 7 to 10% who remain. So more than 90% drop out.

Germany lowered the standards for pre-university education a lot, so a lot more people are allowed to go to university, even though they are not able to actually complete it.

Hello Max, are students from NC programs also drop out their course like that?

All of that being said we should recognize, that students, especially in NRW which is the biggest state in germany, get a really really nice deal for public transportation. Now that we have the "Deutschland Ticket" for 49€ this is no longer that amazing, but it used to be an extremely good deal so many people just started studying for the ticket when in reality they were just working part time in a student job while maybe trying to find out what they want to do or trying to get the apprenticeship (idk if thats the right word, in germany we say "Ausbildungsstelle") they want and thus they "drop out" after just one semester. That being said I do think universities here are really hard, especially when it comes to mathematical things. Some are really famous like engineering (maschinenbau) in aachen, but actually most universities are pretty damn hard if you study anything math related (physics, computer science,...) Additionally nearly anyone can go to university even if they had bad grades in their "Abitur" and you can even study through different channels without Abitur, so the amount of people to attempt to study is really high, yet germany arent necessarily smarter on average compared to other european countries, thus naturally more people are failing as well. Another reason could be bafög. they usually pay it even if you fail exams for 2 semesters at least, but then you need to start showing that you are actually passing exams and are getting Credit Points. This can sometimes mean you lose your bafög which then often gets people to stop studying because it just seems too hard to them. Last but not least germany no longer has a mandatory social year/military service. While I think its great we are no longer forced to do this, it can often mean graduates dont have much time to think about what they want to do in life and just going to university is often a rather easy looking choice, given in theory you just continue doing what you did before which is going to classes, writing exams and so on. Of course these people learn quickly that university is nothing like school and they often lack the determination to put enough time into studying because they are really just studying because they dont know what else to do and havent given it enough thought what they want to do in their life.

You nailed. I'm a former professor, worked in Potsdam for 20 years and before that in Braunschweig. The first couple of semester I was always tough, in fact even brutal, in my approach dealing with new students. It was necessary to weed out the weak ones so that I could concentrate on and nurture the promising ones. If you managed the first 3 semester with me, the rest was plain sailing, you pretty much had your degree in your pocket if you stuck to your courses. This does not mean that the university did not provide support for weak students. We offered complimentary courses to help them reach their goals and had a system of tutorial support. If there was something the student didn't understand he always had a tutor to go to for help. My kids both went to university and at first groaned about the volumes of work they had to do. I gave them the advice to stick it out, that it will get better after a few semesters. My son now has a masters in civil engineering and a well paid job. My daughter has a masters in design and has won design prizes for her work. So, it's well worth the effort, but you have to have stamina and perseverance and of course the right amount of brain matter.

I am thinking about taking it in my bachelor's in data science but some are saying to take informatics as what if the data science may have less value in future and take data science in masters but when I think about it after my bachelors i have to work due to financial problems before masters and if i start as a my job after learning informatics will i have a problem in doing data science related jobs? Please help anyone...😢

Because easier to entrance, the exit less. US univ once announced "holding rate" the registration rate to 3rd year that starts the major course. This means 'if you dont want the major, you do not waste your time but change to other major". Today German univ achievements in research works is unheard.

Interesting. However, my experience studying at a German University isn't so good. And coming with a 240 ECTS degree it is easy for me to see why people from UK, Switzerland, Balkan countries, US, Canada, are avoiding Germany to study masters. (Why study 2 years masters when you can do it in 1 year). At first I thought, alright it is what it is I will do 4+2 years of study. It will be worth it. I will learn more. Right? Wrong! Turns out it' not the case. It still depends on the study programs.

I think that each university should have an admission exam which passing means you have enough knowledge to take the first year, what sense is there in just allowing anyone in?

I'm studying physics in germany and every single time someone went on a semester abroad they came back and talked about how much easier it was

I got into BSBI, I am enrolled in BSC hons in computer science and digitisation(English course) Do you think it’s worth it? I have studied computer science in my country for 3 years and I am familiar with programming languages and concepts, I have built projects on my own and I have pretty good grades, so is scoring good grades really difficult in Germany? I am very scared and excited as well. It would be really nice if you guide me a little bit please ❤️

The system doesn't seem to be very practical. In Poland we have system where public universities are also free, and high-school graduates can submit applications wherever they want (they can even submit multiple applications to different faculties and/or unis). The more points they scored at high-school graduation exam (there are also points from some other sources) the better the chance to qualify for a better and more popular faculties/unis. But they always get somewhere, based on point limits. The system allows best people go to to best universities, and there are no logistical issues. If, for example, computer science at Jagiellonian University was open for everyone who graduated literally any high school, then probably 20k people would enroll or maybe even more - how would that work in practice? Interestingly, unis take in a little bit more students anyway, as there are still dropouts, sometimes even quite high, especially in STEM faculties.

ngl the only reason I wanna drop out is because I lost interest in my subject and it bores me to death now

This is actually a great idea…it’s better than the fight over admission in the US

Life is hard, man. To me, the German education system doesn't seem too bad. Back in my days, there weren't much of such complaints: In Germany, anyone who meets the entry requirements can attend university without paying fees. This makes education accessible regardless of social status or family wealth. German universities tend to filter out students in the first semesters. As a company, we receive CVs from candidates all over the world. During interviews, we occasionally wonder how some candidates obtained their degrees, especially those from countries without alternative education systems to produce qualified employees. Germany, like some other European countries, offers an excellent dual education system that produces some of the most talented and competent workforces in the world. Not everyone needs to go to university.

Very interesting video! I'm doing a PhD in physics at LMU now and was wondering why the number of students between the first and second year of the bachelor's program was so different! I did my bachelor's in physics at the Tokyo Institute of Technology. I have to disagree that good universities in Japan are a walk in the park once you're in ;) at least not always

Uni in Germany was just many years of hard work and commitment.

In Finland getting in mathematics of physics program is easy. However, 50% dropout from the program in the first year. I think the greatest shock is that on university level studying hard is not an option. It is a requirement.

It's free to study at university in Germany, so the students don't have as much invested in it compared to someone in Australia, the USA or the UK. Once you've invested tens of thousands of dollars, or have a student loan to repay for that amount, you tend to put more effort into ensuring you have a return for that investment. That is, you work harder to make sure you pass and you stick at it to make sure you finish. Oddly enough I am a mature age student just starting a degree in Australia. I already have a degree, but because it is more than 10 years old, I can't get any credit for previous study and have to start back at the beginning. Today I handed in my last essay for the semester - the subject? Should university be free. One of the papers I reviewed for this essay was a German study that looked into the changing university fees situation in Germany over the last 45 years and the effect that had on enrolment rates. There was no detectable change at all from free to fee and back to free. Studies in the UK and Australia came up with the same result. Unfortunately, none mentioned dropout rates.

Ill become part of the statistic this year after the summer semester

there is also late drop of, like me an d a bunch of friends of mine who droped off during or even after the bachloers degree, on friend of mine dropped of 2 weeks befor her PhD. Its all about burnout and in natural science! its crazy and they are loosing so many great minds!!!