Why Some Think Ball Pythons Do Better In Racks 

Interestingly many grasp this concept easily when its dogs but not with snakes 🤔

@@ReptilesandResearch I think m it's because dogs mamals are more expressive and we can project our own emotions onto them with more accuracy. Actually with dogs people at times anthropomorphize too far into the other direction and miss the mark on their care and behavior that way!

Interesting take. You have some good points but I disagree with the assertion that observation is not science. If you are saying that Lori may have been reductionist here, then you are also being shortsighted about the way we gather and accumulate knowledge. Lots of things have schools of thought and use deductive reasoning. Some of them are proved right and some of them are proved wrong. Science changes over time because knowledge changes. The only thing that IS certain is the knowledge that we have at the time, not whether it remains to be true forevermore.

1. Lori's observations are what she is basing her opinion on, in conjunction with her general understanding of the subject. So what she has observed, over a very substantial amount of time, involving multiple species of animals, are indeed facts. Which they are, because, there are actually many professional publications that do back all that up. 2. Animal behavior has been studied for decades, and Lori is talking about all species, not just snakes. Ethology is an extremely broad field, encompassing instinctual and learned behaviors as well as abnormal behaviors. "Even the most simple of life forms exhibit behavioral activity, and whether the behavior is normal or abnormal can provide insight into their mental state." A.C. 2018 Many instinctual behaviors are dictated by specific body systems, like the nervous system, which responds to stimuli in the environment. 3. Learned behaviors, on the other hand, are important both for wild animals, who must learn specific and new ways to survive, and for domestic animals that we seek to train. "Animals can learn to anticipate that an action will have a predictable outcome through trial and error, such as dog learning to sit for a treat. This is called operant conditioning. They can also learn that one event precedes another, such as the sound of a metal food bowl being moved signaling food being served, which is known as associative learning. Animals also learn a lot through watching others and mimicry. All of these behaviors allow an animal to adapt to new situations and problems." 4. Identifying behavior patterns enables people to determine when animals are behaving abnormally. These abnormal behaviors might simply be annoying to animal owners; however, in other instances they may also be dangerous for the animal and others or even threaten their very survival. Animal behavior is the scientific study of the behavior of animals, which covers studies under experimental conditions, behaviorism, or natural conditions, ethology. If you, yourself, have not had the discipline and the patience to train your animals (and specifically here, snakes) to voluntarily choose to come out of their enclosures, among other things, then you really don't have much room to make a comment such as the one you did, deriving that what Lori has observed over lengthy periods of time, are not factual. Furthermore, Lori is not basing her opinion solely on her experience with just snakes, rather, her experience with a multitude of animals that she has worked with. Not all scientific facts are based out of a research lab under controlled conditions. Many scientific facts have also been obtained and established in the field, observing. Dian Fossey. Would you make this same conclusion about her work: "This is a person who has opinion on how things work, based on their general (probably not very precise) understanding of the subject - and presents it, as it were facts. Which they aren't, because there are no professional publications (of course, as always with the caveat: that I'm aware of - but I'd really like to look at the ones that I could've missed) that would back all that up, in specifity, and in a causal way." ....because she didn't do controlled experiments in a lab?

​@@Tinybadger Deductive reasoning is a nice intellectual tool for rapid creation of hypothesis. The hypothesis crafted in such way, should be then tested with the apparatus appropriate to the task. Some disciplines that combine approach of philosophy and science - like humanities, economy to extent, etc, within the scope of their interests, deal with the massive difficulty to falsify some of the important questions that they work with. So they have to use second best thing to make best attempts to understand some things, and this is fine. But here, specifically, video discusses supposed mechanisms that are the neurological basis of the behaviour. And this is just a much more precise field, with higher standards of evidence. So, theorycrafting and coming to interesting observations are fine - but as such and on they own, can't be presented as "SCIENCE". "Science" would mean that behind the observation, there's explanation backed by the evidence that is considered sufficient in the field of interest, and accepted by the field.

@@brewkeepyr4647 your response just misses the mark ENTIRELY, and there is not much that I can engage with, here. Problem is not what she perceives from her work, experience and knowledge in the field of animal behaviour, which I don't have any doubt that she's competent in - but how she tries to base what follows from this knowledge, in neurology on the cellular and circuit level. So this is the case of a competent specialist, who goes somewhat outside her area of expertise, assumes things, makes jumps in logic, doesn't realize how far fetched they are, and calls it science. This is NOT an attack, assessment of her character or her competence in a field of animal behaviour, or her work - but a pointing out of a serious technical mistake, in a field, where it does matter.

Well said

Bingo

Disagree i had to put one of my females in a viv with 3 big branches i have only seen her climb the first two weeks now she stays in her hide 90% of the time.

Also there is no breeder that keeps a snake for 20 years most will sell a ex breeder after 5 years they tend to be sold as pets or given away to friends or family.

Lies

@@grownman1017 so do you have proof thats lies? I know 5 breeders that sell or give them away.

It’s quite revealing

We are trying 😊 be sure to like the video so RU-vid knows it’s enjoyable

It’s well worth watching it was mind blowing! Red bulb may have been aversive

*"Where do you think all ball pythons that are sold in reptile shops come from?"* Im aware they are industrially bred in racks, i think we all are. *"Breeders who use rack systems show me a breeder of ball pythons that breed in vivs in UK the price would be higher for the babies."* Actually the reptile shop in Grimsby exotics of the world breeds in vivariums, this is a business with real licensing, commercial overheads and staff to pay and they still make it work for them. *"Breeders of leopard geckos, hognose,kingsnakes also use racks i dont hear you having a go at them"* I have been very vocal about every species you just listed, heck the majority of my content involves looking at kingsnake welfare. *"Why also did you not debate about the part of dav’s ball python film about the fetish markets where ball pythons would be sold if breeders decided to stop breeding them?"* I did not cover Dav's section about the markets because it was not to do with husbandry. Also if i were to debate EVERYTHING in that movie many viewers may just view it as attacking rather than offering the alternative. Furthermore, i think you are misinterpreting the whole point Dav was making. His point was that captive breeding had REDUCED to demand for WC regius, and that the loss of income locally for hunters was being switched over to the markets rather than the pet industry. He was encouraging people to buy more WC. In fact in a recent study it was deemed that the WC harvesting of regius for the pet trade was not sustainable, unlike Dav's claimes. Here is the study: _D’Cruze, Neil, et al. "Searching for snakes: Ball python hunting in southern Togo, West Africa." Nature Conservation 38 (2020): 13-36._ "I have 25 ball pythons only one does not like being handled the rest i handle 1-2 times a week none show defensive behaviour and i get them use to being touched from head to tail." That is the same amount of regius that Lori has alone, in total she has over 100 snakes. All kept in a way that allows them to behaviourally express themselves. She is a qualified trainer and behaviourist and uses the latest scientific literature to inform her husbandry and training, she even goes as far as research what colours a species sees best before she chooses a target, I would be inclined to trust her ability to interpret her 25 regius's behaviour. That is not to say that yours are not, not averse to handling but it could be flooding for all I know. *"Lets also remember the pythons breed are all cb they have never been in the wild take dogs they are so far removed from their ancestors man as destroyed what they once were. All canines are meant to move daily and in the wild they will cover many miles what do we do with pet dogs. Keep them in a house feed them unnatural food and break their spirit by makingbthem do as we tell them ie sit,wait etc which is unnatural for them. That is worse then keeping ball pythons in racks keep attacking ball python breeders and you will get no where."* Whataboutism devalues the point and is nonsensical. It is interesting you view this as attacking ball python breeders rather than showing the way forward to make progress, notice how Lori champions breeders such as green room pythons for pushing forward. It would be advantagious to view it as an opportunity to grow and be ahead of the curve rather than an attack on minimalistic conditions. Too many in the trade are narrow minded and defend undefendable conditions for maintaining the status quo. Remember if we are not advancing, we are stagnating. *"I did not hear Lorri mention the Super dwarf that she got from Out Reach Reptile who breeds them in racks. What about ppl who take Boeleen Pythons out wild and sell them from 5-10k is that right surely that is money driven because their are cb ones that come up for sale now and again"* It is more beneficial to stick to the topic at hand rather than engage in whataboutism. I would imagine it is logical that Lori discussed only regius when specifically invited to talk about regius. Thank you for your comment

Thanks for watching!

It’s a smart way to create more content that serves the community. I have a few other clips prepared

@@ReptilesandResearch Well gotta make that revenue right? Haha! But also easily digestible to share and get key points across.

@@robhutchanimation exactly to both of those 😆

Thanks 😊

There is plenty of research to back that up to

I agree

We just need to prepare snakes for pet homes Better like what green room pythons and Banoffee pie pythons are doing

Its not cruel to keep them in racks. No matter what the creator of this video thinks, they would not breed if they didn't instinctually feel their environment was unsuitable.

@@acaciarogersart and that's just another claim based on purely your opinion. So many animals readily breed in bad welfare. Look at any large breeding facility where care is horrendous, fish loaded in breeding tanks, chickens in completely filled to the top chicken coops, cows in extremely crowded and filthy places. So many animals readily breed in very bad conditions. At least they're accepted as very poor care by almost everyone. Probably not by you because hey, they breed, so the conditions must be suitable. Some people even purposely stress out animals that they want to breed but don't readily do so and it seems to work. There are even some breeders that very occasionally want a specific pair to breed and have problems with it and then as a solution take them on a car trip. And it worked. There is little needed for animals or humans to breed. They do so in horrendous conditions too. Sometimes even more so. There is very little needed to get animals to perform one of their most basic, most instinctual drives they have. And you thinking breeding means the conditions are very good is just a very wrong opinion that again you try to state as a fact.

@@horsemanshipper ok granted i should have prefaced with other facts. No its not just opinion in this case. Im not saying all animals need ideal conditions to breed. Ball Pythons do. That's not the only evidence that its a suitable environment. Many experiments and studies and decades of experience tell us Ball Pythons in particular prefer to spend most of their time in smaller enclosed spaces. It not only improves breeding success, but also general health, feeding, shedding, stress, basically every metric that matters. Consider this: The Vast majority of Ball Pythons kept in captivity are kept in racks, yet the majority of health and feeding issues occur in spacious enclosures. Explain that.

@@acaciarogersart it's all just opinion and it is factual wrong. None of what you say is factual or correct for that matter. If you claim that it's true for every animal, but suddenly not for royals, you need to back up that claim a 100% because there is zero reason to believe that. You can state that your opinion is that it's not the case with Royals. You can’t state that as a fact unless you provide scientific proof. So provide the proof. Further, quote ONE paper showing that forcing them in a small enclosed area without any choice or control and what not, is good care. EVERY research article about royals, both in captivity and in nature shows they are much more active and have much more diverse natural behaviors than a rack can provide for. You only care for the parts that suit your view. Yes they definitely hide most of the time. But just because that's their most exhibited behavior doesn't mean other behaviors (the other 10% or 2,4 hours per day) suddenly are disposable off and unnecessary to provide for. Just provide actual evidence for ANY of your claims, or stop portraying them as facts and just state that what you say is your opinion. I for one have read basically every scientific article out there on this species and I can assure you that none I read say they only hide or that other behaviors are not important or whatever you try to claim. They all show a species that hides most of the day, is active for an average of 2,4 hours/day, 70% of which is at night and 30% during the day. Males climb on average a whopping 25% of total active time while females only 5% on average. They bask from time to time, although mostly cryptically. Some like water, most don't. All of which there is no opportunity for in a rack. So if you claim racks are better, show the evidence for that. As for health issues. That's purely linked to beginners and since beginners rarely start in racks, it makes sense to have more issues in other enclosures. Although there aren't any numbers out there and that claim is again just another thought you have with no hard data to back it up, I agree on the aspect that it happens more, but only because almost every beginner starts in something else than a rack. What you should do is compare experienced keepers on both sides. And I think the results of that would surprise you. So baseline, you respond to scientific evidence with wild claims trying to refute the evidence at hand... If you do that, back up your wild claims with studies of your own. After that we can continue to talk. Otherwise continuing is useless... So back up what you say is factual by showing us the facts. In my view these are the facts based on the scientific research I've read: An enclosure should have very good, sturdy and dark hides across a thermal and humidity gradient, have the opportunity to climb, soak if it chooses to, have the opportunity to bask, stretch, things to explore and last but certainly not least, burrow. All of these should be available so the animal itself can choose if and when to partake in those behaviors, this 24/7. Extra care should be given to the fact they still can choose to hide 24/7 in a very good hide (frankly better than a rack could ever represent a hide). No way ever will you find research showing that it's better for the animal to be deprived of all these options and forced to hide 24/7. We simply factually know both from general animal welfare science as from 1 welfare study in royals in captivity that the latter is simply severely lacking in terms of welfare. So again, if you claim against the scientific evidence provided in the long video and in the main comments by the maker of the podcast, do so with scientific evidence of your own, or don't do it at all...

That will be most winters then in December, the average high is 2 degrees C and and average low of -4 degrees C. That would be Hell, Trøndelag, Norway

I’d always go to a vet so you can terminate a physical issue first. My guess is shipping him back to the breeder would be even more mentally taxing and I don’t think there’s any other method the breeder could do that you haven’t tried 🤔

Feed live

@@grownman1017 He tried

Thanks for the help guys! I’m offering a live asf hopper tonight; so it has to work, right?😂 I would take him to the vet but physically/externally everything looks good. The only thing the vet could do for further diagnosis (I think) is examining a stool sample; and since little guy is so empty, I’m not getting any of those :/ It’s all on this live asf hopper! I’ll update you guys. Thank you again!

Live asf hopper didn’t work. I’m truly boggled. I’ll attempt the ‘joyride’ method then try the asf again

If an animal has the capability to learn things, this on itself implies that the processes work the way they do. And reptiles certainly can learn things very well. Learning follows the same or similar mechanisms in reptiles as it does in mammals as their brain structures are very similar. That means that things like flooding or deprivation works very much the same with them with very similar results. Results many people that have a royal that was kept in a rack system for a long time, can see when they try to make the shift. Denying that the problem exists is impossible as that's clearly been seen time and time again. Now we have the explanation as to why the transition is so hard, despite it obviously being a better way of keeping.

@@horsemanshipper To say an animal who is born fully equipped physically and mentally for survival, has the same thought process as a mammal, who is born knowing almost nothing unable to survive without a parent… well in my opinion it’s a silly comparison.. Once again want to confirm I am down with enclosure size standards to change and be bigger overall. I do believe it’s beneficial to offer your ball python opportunities to climb, swim, dig, bask, etc.. but I think for more obvious reasons than the theories stated in this video.. I believe many have become obsessive about arboreal ball pythons and this subject as well as with the idea of understanding the snake’s thoughts and emotions. In my opinion, just because a snake can climb or will. It doesn’t make it semi arboreal.. once again I have kept countless balls in large enclosures with plenty to do. Although they utilizes the floor space, they don’t spend more than a half a day to a full day off of the ground. Another commonly kept snake, the Boa constrictor however is indeed semi arboreal. These animals may spend 2 weeks on the ground but will also spend an entire 2 weeks above the ground. That is semi arboreal. The capability to climb doesn’t mean you live a semi arboreal lifestyle. By this logic, virtually every snake in the world should be considered “semi aquatic” since they can swim.

I also want to add something about this “shy” reclusive behaviour in ball pythons now being blamed on racks. Once again not a big fan of racks, but when I was doing all big enclosures back in the day, there were still certain individuals who were shy, erratic, nervous, and overall less active. Mind you these were not animals ever raised in racks, in fact i don’t think most people in the are even knew about racks back then. A lot of these theories are from people who started keeping or doing their research post rack keeping.. if you’ve been around before racks, you will know ball pythons don’t act that different anyways.. not to say I’m defending racks

@@darthboa I think you completely misunderstand what makes an animal semi-arboreal (according to the zoological and available scientific classifications they simply are, be it indeed much less than boa constrictor for example), but that's not the topic of discussion. The topic of discussion also isn't whether they're reclusive animals. Nobody denies that. They hide most of the time and generally are very reclusive. I think most people know that. The topic of discussion is that a rack makes them having a hard time to change over to a more suitable setup. That's seen a lot by numerous keepers. And that's not a new observation at all. All she does is explain why that's the case. And yes, they have the same brain structures as mammals, are very capable of learning new things and studies show they can do things when housed in enriched setups that they can't do in bare setups. So it absolutely does happen. Saying it doesn't is just wrong. It's been observed by keepers and quantified in scientific articles. So it simply does happen. Now if you claim the effects are worse in mammals, that's an entire different argument and the point you make with how they have to learn everything from their mother is a very good point. And I absolutely agree that with mammals the difference will be much bigger and the effects of unenriched housing thus even worse. But it most certainly happens in reptiles (including snakes) too. The brain structures and mechanisms are the same or similar. Similar effects have been show in snakes. The principles behind why it happens, is very likely the same as the brain works in a very similar way. The degree in which it happens is another discussion altogether. But that it happens is simply a fact.

Actually what our guest is saying is backed in science here are some studies. Please read into the subject before reiterating the same thing that is mistakenly spread in the hobby. One only needs to look at loris videos to see they are not hiding constantly. Our co host Ellie’s regius was climbing in this very episode. Studies: Michał Skawiński Brian Forquer Almli, L. M., & Burghardt, G. M. (2006). Environmental enrichment alters the behavioral profile of ratsnakes (Elaphe). Journal of Applied Animal Welfare Science, 9(2), 85-109. Antonov, I., Antonova, I., Kandel, E.R., and Hawkins, R.D. (2001). The contribution of activity-dependent synaptic plasticity to classical conditioning in Aplysia. J. Neurosci. 21: 6413-6422. Brando, S., & Buchanan-Smith, H. M. (2018). The 24/7 approach to promoting optimal welfare for captive wild animals. Behavioural Processes, 156, 83-95. Burghardt, G. M. (2013). Environmental enrichment and cognitive complexity in reptiles and amphibians: Concepts, review, and implications for captive populations. Applied Animal Behaviour Science, 147(3-4), 286-298. Divers, S. J., & Stahl, S. J. (Eds.). (2018). Mader's Reptile and Amphibian Medicine and Surgery. Elsevier Health Sciences, pages 922-931. Eberhard Fuchs, Gabriele Flügge, "Adult Neuroplasticity: More Than 40 Years of Research", Neural Plasticity, vol. 2014, Article ID 541870, 10 pages, 2014. Emer, S. A., Mora, C. V., Harvey, M. T., & Grace, M. S. (2015). Predators in training: operant conditioning of novel behavior in wild Burmese pythons (Python molurus bivitattus). Animal cognition, 18(1), 269-278. Finlay, B. L., & Darlington, R. B. (1995). Linked regularities in the development and evolution of mammalian brains. Science, 268(5217), 1578-1584. Fuchs, E., & Flügge, G. (2014). Adult neuroplasticity: more than 40 years of research. Neural plasticity, 2014. Groh, C. and Rössler, W. (2020). Analysis of synaptic microcircuits in the mushroom bodies of the honeybee. Insects 11: 43. Hoehfurtner, T., Wilkinson, A., Nagabaskaran, G., & Burman, O. H. (2021). Does the provision of environmental enrichment affect the behaviour and welfare of captive snakes? Applied Animal Behaviour Science, 239, 105324. Holding, M. L., Frazier, J. A., Taylor, E. N., & Strand, C. R. (2012). Experimentally altered navigational demands induce changes in the cortical forebrain of free-ranging Northern Pacific Rattlesnakes (Crotalus o. oreganus). Brain, behavior, and evolution, 79(3), 144-154. Hollandt, T., Baur, M., & Wöhr, A. C. (2021). Animal-appropriate housing of ball pythons (Python regius)-Behavior-based evaluation of two types of housing systems. Plos one, 16(5), e0247082. Holtmaat, A. and Svoboda, K. (2009). Experience-dependent structural synaptic plasticity in the mammalian brain. Nat. Rev. Neurosci. 10: 647-658. Jacobs, B., Rally, H., Doyle, C., O’Brien, L., Tennison, M., & Marino, L. (2021). Putative neural consequences of captivity for elephants and cetaceans. Reviews in the Neurosciences. Lupien, S. J., McEwen, B. S., Gunnar, M. R., & Heim, C. (2009). Effects of stress throughout the lifespan on the brain, behaviour and cognition. Nature reviews neuroscience, 10(6), 434-445. Magee, J. C., & Grienberger, C. (2020). Synaptic plasticity forms and functions. Annual review of neuroscience, 43, 95-117. McEwen, B.S., Nasca, C., and Gray, J. (2016). Stress effects on neuronal structure: hippocampus, amygdala, and prefrontal cortex. Neuropsychopharmacology 41: 3-23. Mitra, R., Jadhav, S., McEwen, B.S., Vyas, A., and Chattarji, S. (2005). Stress duration modulates the spatiotemporal patterns of spine formation in the basolateral amygdala. Proc. Nat. Acad. Sci. USA 102: 9371-9376. Nagabaskaran, G., Burman, O. H., Hoehfurtner, T., & Wilkinson, A. (2021). Environmental enrichment impacts discrimination between familiar and unfamiliar human odours in snakes (Pantherophis guttata). Applied Animal Behaviour Science, 237, 105278. Naumann, R. K., Ondracek, J. M., Reiter, S., Shein-Idelson, M., Tosches, M. A., Yamawaki, T. M., & Laurent, G. (2015). The reptilian brain. Current biology: CB, 25(8), R317-R321. Pogliano, C. (2017). Lucky Triune Brain: Chronicles of Paul D. MacLean’s Neuro-Catchword. Nuncius, 32(2), 330-375. Salvanes, A. G., Moberg, O., Ebbesson, L. O., Nilsen, T. O., Jensen, K. H., & Braithwaite, V. A. (2013). Environmental enrichment promotes neural plasticity and cognitive ability in fish. Proceedings. Biological sciences, 280(1767). Spain, M. S., Fuller, G., & Allard, S. M. (2020). Effects of habitat modifications on behavioral indicators of welfare for Madagascar giant hognose snakes (Leioheterodon madagascariensis). Anim. Behav. Cogn, 7, 70-81. Tosches, M. A., Yamawaki, T. M., Naumann, R. K., Jacobi, A. A., Tushev, G., & Laurent, G. (2018). Evolution of pallium, hippocampus, and cortical cell types revealed by single-cell transcriptomics in reptiles. Science, 360(6391), 881-888. Warwick, C., Grant, R., Steedman, C., Howell, T. J., Arena, P. C., Lambiris, A. J., ... & Wilson, A. (2021). Getting It Straight: Accommodating rectilinear behavior in captive snakes-A review of recommendations and their evidence base. Animals, 11(5), 1459.

Usually I make long replies, but you got some good scientific studies (which you probably won't read anyway) in a reply already. I'm just going to focus on the idea that just because they're 90% of the time inactive in a hole, they don't have other instinctual drives or important natural behaviors to accommodate for. It's the same as saying because my kitten sleeps 20 hours a day on my chair and is nocturnal, I therefor can place a dark box around that chair and put the kitten in there and call that adequate care. Solely because hey, he sleeps 20 hours a day, so it's fine... That idea is just completely wrong with any animal...

Wow, just wow the amount of misinformation you put in only one comment. It's been shown over and over again in scientific studies that yes they hide 90% of the time (not 95 like you claim), but yes the other 10% they are indeed active. In that active time males spend 25% on climbing and females 5% as of the data of a 5 year taking radiotracker study of this species. The flooding crap is just that, crap. Not supported by any science, nor by the trackers in the Dav video if you listen to what they say themselves. Unless you claim of course that the females remain submerged for that other 20% where the males do climb?... So, that rubbish story must stop. Yes they climb more in the wet season simply because they don't like the heat and drier air of the dry season. They remain more in the cooler and moister burrows. Of that 10% activity btw, 30% is during the day and 70% at night. 10% of total climbing activity is also during the day. Again showing flooding isn't the cause, unless you claim floods coms in the evening and are gone by morning?... The few studies we have in captivity also show about 90% hiding, 10% activity and also about 70% nighttime activity and 30% daytime activity. They also show they climb and bask regularly when provided with the option to do so. Getting them out of the enclosure is in no way remotely the same as letting them choose when to be active and when they want to do what they want to do. Choice and control over the environment is found to be very beneficial for all studied vertebrates. Saying royals are an exception is just pushing your uneducated extremely biased opinion as fact, while there is nothing factual about it. Build an enclosure where THEY can choose when to be inactive hiding in dark small places, when to be active, when to climb or bask and when to return to their hides. Or is that suddenly not possible anymore???... There is absolutely no way anyone can be convincing about the use of an enclosure where you FORCE the animal to 'hide' all their lives (and forcing them out from time to time isn't a good substitute to a well setup enclosure) provide the choice and they will show you how they want to behave. Your point about eating is only correct for animals that are kept a long time in racks to start with, which makes people aid the rack system cycle, which is explained in the longer video. Individuals that were in racks for only a short time, do wonderful in big enclosures. Never refuse food, have behaviors very similar in type and duration to what is seen in scientific papers and so on. Those that keep them in a good way know they're not different from other snakes on that aspect. Which, again, is a hard claim you make based on literally nothing but your opinion. If you want to refute science with 'facts', do it with actual facts and not an uneducated opinion that shows you didn't read a single one scientific article on the subject in full yourself. No, if you want to refute scientific evidence, you will need better or more up to date scientific research. Not opinion. You ignore all science, including behavioral every scientific article specifically about this species, or at least only see what you want to see in them. At best you're ignorant to all scientific evidence that opposes your view by filtering out sentences pulled out of context that fits your view. So look at yourself before you disregard yet another field of science that shows how horrible racks are. As if the studies on Python regius both in the field or in captivity weren't enough already...

My wife has a grand hissy fit when she runs across a video with keepers, not large scale breeders, keeping these beautiful animals in a plastic drawer.

Squeeze my heart watching breeders shooting video proud of what they are doing at our beloved snakes, finally someone is saying something about that