Why Swarmkeeper is Awesome in Pathfinder 2e Remaster's Howl of the Wild 

I could see this working with the guardian, since the guardian is so focused on using reactions and absorbing damage. Even then I don't see it being that great. I could see something where the swarm did damage to people who ended their turn in the area. That would make it more useful.

This is like my seventh video of yours I've watched. I subscribed now. Every single one is quality and I like Pathfinder. Ps: I'm making a titanoboa character with the awakened animal ancestry that you covered. Very cool👌

Swarmkeeper is an archetype I'm excited for and have a character I still really wanna play using it, but yeah. Needs some tuning. If it requires most if not all your turn to use, it needs more oomph. With the sustain part I kinda feel Witch is a solid pick for Swarmkeeper? But then same issue still. There are still more optimal things to sustain with cackle.

I think the one thing that really bothers me about swarmkeeper’s low damage is the way resistances so easily cuck it out of being able to be used. In my experience resistance starts to become really common at high levels, and Swarmkeeper’s average damage *barely* crests the threshold to actually hit HP against such targets. Like sure, being able to deal 25 damage (if they fail) to a couple targets each round is nice and would add up, but if they’ve got 15 resistance each then you’re just left with sadness.

"Why swarmkeeper is awesome", 5 minutes in, and it doesn't feel that awesome, unfortunately. that's a shame

I think probably the best way to use the swarm, other than in tight spaces (which to be fair are quite common in dungeon crawls), is area denial. If an enemy wants to stand where your swarm is, you can punish them with consistent damage and debuffs, if they don't you have two actions to use in other ways. A variant of this strategy with Weaver's Web and Carried With The Swarm is great if the Swarmkeeper doesn't want to be in melee. Keep your swarm around you, if an enemy moves into your swarm to attack you, they risk being immobilized. On your turn you use Bite & Sting twice or one of the flourish actions and Bite & Sting, then sustain to move the swarm and you with it. If they want to get back into melee with you they have to spend at least one action moving and potentially one or more actions escaping.

Interesting. My own impression of the class was very different, as I'm actually digging the idea for a martial and I'm loving the versatility of what the spell/companion can do. Still love your content, even if I don't agree with your conclusions here.

My biggest gripe with this is that after you use Swarm Forth and for any reason have to end it, you don't get to use it for a minute. This means that if you ever cease sustaining the swarm, you can't use the entire archetype for the rest of the combat. Regarding the animal companion comparison, there are a few problems. The animal companion scales "better" ONLY if you dump Feats into it. As far as I can see, Bite and Sting scales by just picking the dedication. This means that after fulfilling the archetype condition, you can switch to a new one and still have a scaling AOE save based cantrip, albeit one that taxes the action economy a lot. This could be pretty significant for some builds. Also, after certain levels Animal Companions start missing A LOT since they don't go beyond expert in attacks whereas even with an up to master scaling DC, creatures will still be normal succeeding saves, thus taking some damage and possibly in an AOE. Basically I don't think an Animal Companion comparison is apt, despite it taking the Animal Companion "slot". I do agree, that overall Beastmaster might be the better dedication, but in such broad strokes, a multiclass dedication is even better, so that's kinda a moot point. Sucks that it requires level 6/8 to be fully online and not completely anchor down your action economy, but past that point it becomes very solid. I overall don't think it's too bad. Giving a martial a "third action" that's will/dex save based damage and potentially AOE with some decent condition affliction is, even with some action economy concerns, still strong. Obviously, not every class can make great use of this, but that's just how archetypes are. I find this to be a very well balanced archetype all in all.

I wonder how this archetipe will work best with, seems that Kineticist will do well but im willing to be surprised

Maybe we'll see some errata to change to sustain to command and get the action economy improved. I really want to play this archtype with a goblin ranger who is a super weird hermit that everyone else in the party is confused by.

fire/metal kineticist with a swarm of incandescent metal, let's fucking goooooo

I think the easiest fix to this archetype is to turn the swarm into a proper animal companion and let it use the same rules for companions, at least action wise. Two action to "cast" it is fine by me tbh but after that you can sustain/ command it with one action, giving the swarm two actions that you can use for everything else. Other than this hiccup with the action economy (which is an easy homebrew fix imo), the archetype looks amazing and throughout this video I am halfway done building my automaton commander swarmkeeper.

Not sure if action economy would be problematic, but potentially mixed with the Commander gives a nice little "come at me if you dare" sorta vibe. I do feel that there was a missed opportunity to allow the swarm to do some outside of combat utility. Like a feat that allows you to use the swarm instead of thieves tools to disarm traps or the like. I'm basically thinking Ant-Man type utility shenanigans. Also, kinda curious what happens if your swarm attacks another swarm?

One thing you could use weaver's web for is since it's an area and swarms can move through enemies, use it on an enemy and the spaces behind them so they can't step backwards (to avoid reactions and whatnot) While not amazing for damage, this archetype does look good for debuffing. Thinking of tacking this onto a summoner (probably an awakened animal one).

Objection: the swarm isn't built to inflict tons of damage, it's built to harass the enemy. The basic idea on how to use it is to send your minuscule buddies in front of a fighter and/or other tanky martial (yes, this includes quite a fek kineticists). Mostly the fighter, tho'. Basically, the enemy has to choose whether to stand and fight (and be eaten alive by the bugs while the fighter mauls them), go around the fighter (and be mauled by a reaction attack - and potentially stopped in its tracks) or retreat. This makes the team tank many times more effective, particularly when holding a position like a tunnel or a corridor. And when the swarm becomes huge... well, there is no way in heck the enemy can go through the cloud of nasty biters without getting ripped apart, particularly when the fighter is right in the middle. The only downside is if the enemy is someone like a Scamp or a Drake, with a breath attack - then it's pain city for the Swarmkeeper. Now, who would be interested in being a Swarmkeeper? The answer is pretty much blindingly obvious: the team healer. The dude's main task is to send heals and buffs downrange, and he can spare a few actions to tell his minuscule pals to eat his enemies alive. This because, as you pointed out, the Swarm is basically a cantrip - but a VERY powerful one. It's an area effect spell... that can be used indefinitely, and has a long duration. A Focus spell that recharges faster than most, and doesn't consume a Focus point. It's more or less like D&D's Flaming Sphere, except better - MUCH better.

One thing I notice this time,, but don't think I noticed in other videos on the subject, Buzzing Death Cicadas doesn't seem to list any scaling on the damage beyond 12th level.

honestly i see the power in Bite and Sting. At first i thought "damn you need to use an action just to attack, you don't command it? that's bad!", but them i realized that this attack is a reflex save, and because of that it's spammable without incurring in the MAP, which makes it really strong

it does get the cogs turning for a sweet Goblin or Hobgoblin boss.

Shino Aburame comes to my mind

My suggested rework is to make it work like an animal companion but use a different wording so that it doesn't interavt with the command an animal/minion language simce that's clearly something they didn't want. 1 action to swarm forth, lasts 1 min no sustaining, one action to give it 2 actions. so 2 actions f you want it to act on the same turn as you swarm forth. Since language is different you wouldn't be able get the uograde that always gives 1 free action if you don't command it. Now this lets you use your other stuff by leaving 2 actions open like an animal companion but is still limited by needing 1 action steup, very low speed and sharing hp pool with you.

I love all BadLuckGamer videos!

Reminds me of The Hive from Agents of Shield. I could see playing this as a rogue or a druid. Might be fun!

i think being able to use the weaker abilities alongside sustaining the swarm would be good. 2 actions is a lot for this stuff

My first thought about seeing the swamkeeper was that the swarm was going to be a special animal companion unique to the swarmkeeper.

I was really looking forward to this one, and while it functions somewhat ok, the way it fails to synergize with both casters and martials is a bit of a let down. If I could suggest my own simple house rule fix, replace the Flourish trait with a unique Swarm trait. You can only use one action with the swarm trait per round, and when you do your swarm stays sustained until the end of your next turn (though you still need to use a sustain action to move it). It allows martials to use their flourish abilities and frees up some of casters actions for spells.

Champion and Thaumaturge might be interesting to free archetype into this.

Assuming Animist doesn't lose the focus on Sustaining Spells, I could see a potential angle with Animist for Swarmkeeper? Before 8th level, and even after 8th level, Animist has a weird action economy once they get themselves set up with their Apparition spells and stuff

The web is better than the distracting bite for a rogue because difficult terrain makes them off guard as long as they're in the difficult terrain where as the distracting bite makes them off guard against a single attack.

Wait does the swarm not have its own actions?? Why would they do that.... That's like... Super dumb. They should have made this a summoner eidolon type.

On one hand, I could be Broodmother from DotA. Awakened giant spider with a swarm of spider children. On the other hand, this seems a little jank. Like maybe the swarm should have been a special type of animal companion or eidolon with special rules instead of this spell (?)

When I first heard about there being a Swarmkeeper archetype I was expecting more of a Swarm as an animal companion that was just a mass of insects and spiders following beside you or could come from the surrounding environment. Not a lite-animal companion that we can only have for a minute and also have to sustain for that duration anyway. I was excited for this archetype but I'm just left feeling a little disappointed at the outcome.

As it stands, a reflavored Ostilli host is a better Swarmkeeper then the Swarmkeeper. Luckily Surki is only Access, not Prerequisite. My ideas to fix it: Path 1: Just make it a Animal Companion that is a Swarm. Why overthink it with that wierd Eidolon/Sustained Spell mix? Path 2: - Allow the Sustain to Move or use any Swarm Action. - give the user and annointed allies immunity to everything, not just damage (all the good stuff is non-damage)

The action economy needs to be fixed. They should let the swarm move or attack when you sustain it.

The damage does not bother me - it's on par with cantrips and kineticist impulses, which also do ~1d4 damage per action. The 2 problems I have are: (1) the need to sustain - my inclination would be to treat it like air kineticist flight: it is sustained so long as you spend at least one action commanding the swarm (2) swarm forth/sustain is the only way to move the swarm, which combined with it's low speed makes it difficult to use in a dynamic combat It kind of feels like they were considering a kineticist-style caster, a swarm eidolon, and a swarm animal companion, and a class archetype for the Mosquito Witch and ended up mashing them up all together ending up with something that just doesn't really do any of them.

2 actions to gain sustained physical resistance and splash/area weakness seems too much, The feat that gives lesser cover should be part of dedication or at least creat difficult terrain.

So if it counts as an animal companion.... Does enlarge work on it?

I like it but agree about the sustain. It’s a fun idea for a lesbian or corusa

This archetype wants you to ignore everything about your class abilities. Just bite as many times as possible.

I feel like this should have been a class and not an archetype. Having an archetype eat up this many of your actions is awkward and the effects can't be that strong since it can be mixed with any class. This would be fine as a multiclass archetype for a swarmhost style class but it just ends up seeming like a waste of an interesting idea in this form.

I just thing leshi swarmkeeper hehehe

I also was looking forward to using this, but it's just...Bad. The fact that your Sustain specifically says move and not attack. If it's already in the same space as a creature, then it's just...a wasted action, basically. One action to Sustain, one action to Command, and then a third action to...what? You can't cast most spells. Bards need to Sustain their song so they'd wind up doing absolutely nothing but Sustaining per turn. Fighter's Power Attack takes two actions, so you can't do the crazy high damage of a fighter. Swarms can't provide flanking bonus, so they're not useful for Rogues who have to Hide or Feint to make opponents off-guard. Thaumaturges need an extra action at start of combat to Identify. Who is this archetype for?

I mean, swarm it's just a cantrip You spent 2 actions per turn and deal 1d4/hightening damage I would just let a player use a animal companion at the same time that swarm Also, Summoner Swarm it's bonkers. 2 actions for swarm, 2 actions for eidolon

Swarmkeeper Champion? Retributive strike when swarm gets attacked, you are already a frontliner etc...

The title isn't great for the "use so many actions for mediocre abilities you can barely use your base class" archetype

"I don't like when fighters hit things with swords, it feels like a spell but like a worse kind of spell." Does that sound smart to you?