Why The Bike Industry Is Failing 

Not all bikes are stupid expensive. You could buy a cheaper option. You could say the same thing about an expensive car vs a house. So many people crying over what they cannot afford. I'd like a private island. You don't hear me complaining.

@@border304 what a cuck! Yes charge me more ! Lmao fuck them companies they always make the employees and consumers take an L. Lower the prices everything is so expensive rn people aren’t trying to spent 5k on bike rn

I have worked in the bike industry for a number of years and I do agree that over covid the pricing of everything bike related got out of control as companies would jack up prices for no reason other than limited supply and huge demand, I think it's good that the pricing is coming back under control at long last

​@@border304exactly. People just like to complain about everything.

@@kevinburke1325 its not exactly complaining. Commencal as an example, in 2019 you could get their entry level DH bike for 3500€. Now, their entry level bike is 5700!!! That's nuts. Same parts, just a new version of them. Not all brands did this, but they jacked up the price by a lot. Obviously, if it's the bike you want, get it. But it is a fact that the pricing went through the roof.

Rocky Mountain is at 30% off for months so getting better. But I hope they all stay in business

I agree! 30% off puts the bikes about where they should be to begin with.

@@jimm244 no absolutely not. The 50 percent would put bikes back to where they were before the steady ridiculous incline. I'll go back to 2005 when you could buy a decent hardtail and I mean decent as in Judy RockShox fork with bb7 brakes for about 500 bucks now you'll get better brakes on a 500 but the fork is a piece of shit and the wheels will end very easily. Study massive incline before the Scandium was just pure greed mountain bikes we're always more affordable than road bikes and that changed somewhere around 2010

A 24 Supercaliber XTR is $9,600! AYFKM? Very expensive, but I’m buying one. 🤙🏻

Sadly, "innovations" like disc brakes and multiple wheel sizes complicated logistic chain and manufacturing significantly. We will never return to old times when we had one option: 26 inch MTB wheels/29inch road wheels with QR and rim brakes. And I think it is sad because it worked just fine, at low price level probably even better. Nowadays customer is almost forced to pay premium for the illusion of marginal gains and bad quality. Therefore I believe that the industry consequentially also faces backlash of the disappointed customers. It is not just that the warehouses are full. Problems are deeper.

Saw it first hand the other day, had to go to 99 bikes to grab some headset bearings. They were as cheap as they should be ($24) sure, but the guy in front of me in the queue shelled out $340 to replace the entry level shimano cranks ($70 on ebay) on his commuter… poor guy got fleeced

Luckily there are a couple-few decades of really, & in some cases REALLY nicely made bikes to choose from, that makes buying anything new & retail look like a terrible idea.

@@justgarethsphone9663 Disgusting. I know they need to make a profit but not like that. It does you justice to do your own research on the bike you have.

they are still cutting prices even 5 months later

But why, 10k bikes are a steal!!!

Where the motorcycle industry got hit was the used market. Production of new bikes didn't increase, but demand did. As a result, people bought used stuff instead of waiting months for new. A "beater" starter bike used to be 1.2k max on marketplace based on all the advice of old-timers, now it's 2.5-3k if you're lucky. Ninja 250s with 30k miles are selling near me for 3.5k

Well a lot of people are finding out that instead of buying $8000 mountain bike, you can buy $8000 motorcycle…

@@KapitanPisoar1 Exactly!!! A brand new Triumph Trident 660 at $8595 now definitely looks a much better proposition.

@@matthewl419 Demand stayed the same, production decreased. Started bikes like 250s have always been disproportionately expensive, especially desirable ones like Ninjas and GSXRs.

Yeah but you can’t ride the whole enchilada trail on a triumph trident 160. Im buying epic riding experiences, in some of the most beautiful outdoor remote places in the world.

Every industry did that. Metric tons of layoffs across the board due to over hiring in 2021. Rates got high - lending got expensive. Shows how bad these companies play the leverage.

Another 20+ year vet here & I agree, glad I got out of the industry & they are getting what they deserve.😤

Specialized has been among the most abusive to the dealers they have. Forcing them to take on so many mediocre Specialized parts and accessories.

...funny, Harley Davidson did the same thing. Although, history shows interest in bicycles is cyclical, Id expect things to come back again. EBikes certainly will gain more momentum as the price comes down, which it should. Plus, I think the EBike has not found its best "form" yet. Doing 30-40mph on what is basically a heavy duty traditional pedal bike, will soon enough evolve , for sure. How? IDK.

and also the reason why i keep my good ideas to myself... i had an idea at my last job that would have boosted revenue. i asked my boss if i told him my idea and he liked it and implemented it, would i get a cut of those additional profits. he said no, i kept my idea to myself, he fired me for it... "not being a team player..."

Short term greed destorys long term need!

It's a perfect storm for the big, multi-national / investment-vulture / corporate-owned companies as they're most likely balls-deep in debt too; which has gotten a lot more expensive to service in the past 18 months on top of all the issues that are specific to the cycle industry. My tastes are a bit niche (only do steel) and it's interesting / heartening to see that the smaller, more-likely-independent boutique brands seem to be weathering the storm better - perhaps because they had more skin in the game and were less driven by profit and short-termism. A good time to be in the market for a new bike, and tbh I have limited sympathy for many of the companies caught up on this since they're certainly not blameless for the situation they find themselves in. For too long the industry has been dominated by un-necessary marketing-driven demand-creation and rocketing prices; seems like a breath of fresh air for the rampant consumption to abate. Let's not forget it's all about the ride, not the gear.

I can't believe I made the same mistake 20 years later and have another frame from a company thats gone out of business (Geurrilla Gravity & Outland). They both had such cool tech I couldn't resist. The GG was the first new bike since I got out of the industry years ago. Don't ride too hard anymore so hopefully it will last a long time, But I don't know what frame I would get to replace it. Small brands (< 5 employees) can weather the storm better, but don't often last long term, burnout or personal issues. Can't think how many small companies from the '80's & 90's have closed. I still have two real Bontagers and got to have dinner with him shortly after the Trek buyout. He said he got a steady paycheck, health insurance and a minivan for his wife out of the deal. And he's in the MTB Hall of Fame He told me running a medium sized company is really hard profitably. Even the larger companies are in trouble now...

100% In agreement with you

Kinda like Keynesian economics pretty much

It's also because bikes are reliable enough to last pretty well if they're minded, combined with nothing that's worth upgrading to coming onto the market in heading for 20 years. For anyone who's been biking longer than that, most of the 'innovation' has not made biking better, only made it more expensive and usually more maintenance intensive. The most obvious example for me were the literal fit and forget open bath Marzocchi coil/air assist forks from 20+ years ago compared with every modern fork. Once manufacturers realised they could claim weight savings by butting a ml or two of oil into the legs instead of nearly filling them, while also making a fortune in replacement seals or whole forks when they fail because there was never enough oil to deal with the contamination that's inherent in off road use, they basically ruined MTBing as a cheap sport. More depressingly, Marzocchi was killed off by the same shitweasel greed when they outsourced manufacturing from Italy to Asia. In what came as a surprise to no one, their quality tanked and suddenly their forks were even less trustworty than their rivals, so people stopped buying them, they went bankrupt and Fox bought the name.

@@peglor Very true!

There is also, like in my case. With government-induced inflation across the board. I have no money to spare.

my spidey senses say canyonaro..... heard that one before

Unfortunately customers are only seen as cash cows to these brands. I left Trek because goals and profit were more important than fixing a safe quality bike. I would get "talked to" for not offering grips, pedals, or bottle cage on early 2000s cruiser that would be rotted out. When my focus was getting the customer on something they will enjoy and hopefully not store it under the deck for another 10 Years.

@@greggorysmith3063 oh yeah, I recall long time ago the look when I told them I didnt want that kick stand. Sorry, I lost trust in my LBS and learned to trust myself...made some mistakes along the way but always gained something better. Cheers

@laszlozoltan5021 Yeah, it's crazy. There is soo much information customers should get when getting a bike. The average person just getting into cycling doesn't know how much stem, bars, or seat can help change that "medium " frame( fitting a hieght range )to actually fit them better for longer comfortable rides. And not really needing a whole "professional fitting" (which a professional fit will make it better) but who needs a 100-300 professional fitting for an entry-level bike. But big brands just want the cage, bottle, and water bottle sales to make "add on" margins better. And if you as a customer don't get those the employee just stops the progression of helpful information because they don't see the customer helping their numbers to look good for a $0.05 raise in 2 years ha I'm probably labeled as a "sour mechanic bashing shops/brands" but bikes are all I've known in my life and I want everyone to have that same experience and not feel like cash cows. -cheers back and hope you're enjoying your rides!

@@greggorysmith3063 Trek support is terrible. Overpriced for the name and then they leave you with your broken product.

yeah; I reckon I just bought my last frame (a rim brake Trek) this past summer...it'll probably outlive me, but dems da brakes, as they say

Same here. I bought a new LeMond Zurich in 2001. Never thought I’d still have it but at these prices, I’ll keep riding it. Plus, I love it. Great bike.

I might buy another new locally welded travel and gravel bike before i die. Any other style, nope.

@@MacThreinfhir Ha! I have a couple LeMonds, work just fine, great bikes.

Same here 1993 Original Merlin road, rides great after all these years and just as light as carbon.

"Let's hope some of these overpaid tools get fired." If anything, history tells us that they'll get bonuses and will double down after reset.

“Most businesses are run by idiots…” - do you know many folks running businesses? Legit just trying to understand where that statement is based, because the only way I see that being true is in the sense that humans are idiots. To actual run a business, you’ve either really impressed some smart people (venture capital or incumbent leadership) or you’ve started your own small business, which doesn’t require a genius but definitely requires a non-idiot

@@jeremyporterfield1611probably idiots in the sense of MBA’s: they can maximize quarterly profits really well, and that will impress some VC (which very often sucks at due diligence - just look at all the funded and failed tech or EV companies), but they can’t build and run a company over the long term (>5years). Their customers aren’t the people buying the products, it’s the people funding the business, and that eventually always leads to enshittification of products and loss of customers. So yes, idiots in the eyes of most employees and customers. I’ve been there, explained my CEO what problem would arise, got laughed at and then later fired because it turned out I was right, which her ego couldn’t handle.

@@BodyDestruction I get this. Definitely on VC front, they are typically based on slugging average for the fund, not individual investments, though it appears that space is changing right now. Totally agree though that common culture amongst company leadership these days is to remain in a role for 18ish months, make a big change/splash to short term production, then move on and up with the positive momentum seen within that organization before the long term impacts hit that unit, then when they do hit, make sure you’ve moved on enough to distance yourself. No real mechanism in the free market preventing this other than company culture/hiring practices in my experience.

Poillitcaly correct, woke virtue signaling idiots.

AND because things like bikes and instruments, many hobby pieces in fact, can be used with TONS of fun for years to come, with only maintainance costs like new tires, suspension service, new strings, new music sheets and similar. You do not need a new bike EVERY year to pursue the bike hobby. Not even every second year.

@@beerenmusli8220 yeah dude 1000%

When the government hands a family of 3, over $6k, immediately, right into their checking account, multiple times over, then yep, people are gonna buy shit. This was the “grand plan” by our ever so smart government, to get the economy boosting again, all signed in petition by the majority, the Democratic Party. Now look where it got us. Lazy people and very high inflation across the board. Remember to vote correctly this coming election. 👍

​@@beerenmusli8220definitely don't need a new bike every year. My s works is 10 years old now and it's still a blast to ride. Just been basic maintenance

Its why i appreciate the companies that make a model that runs for years and only change the year color not design.

Regardless of that bikes shouldnt priced above 6000 and above. And they shouldnt just release new versions per model every damned year. Not everyone is willing to pay for a new car every year.

@@allenjay896 you don't need to buy a new bike every year. My TT is 11 years old, my RB is 8 years old. Still ride like a dream and are great.

That’s markets for you. It costs to ramp up production to meet increase demand so there is a tendency to overproduce. Predicting sales trends accurately is a black art! You cannot complain bikes are too expensive when the market accepted the prices. Moreover the higher margin paid for new jobs, sponsorships and R&D into better products: e-bikes, 4 pot brakes, e shifting, wake up this is how business works

Your forehead out wrinkles chandler bing

@@hallstewart Yeah right, that's why you see prices in 2023 bikes going down up to 30%. They had insane profits and as always they find an excuse to increase prices and their margins. I can complain as I am not buying ovepriced bikes. 😂

Jeez, that’s a bigger discount than I’ve ever spent on a car 😂

I have a 12000 trek rail 9.9 xtr that we’re selling for 7k right now it’s silly we paid 9k for it

You nailed it! And a lot of these used bike sellers don't show them model year. It's so annoying. You can't do that with cars.

So true.

Unfortunately true.

Bike shop owner treated me like a rock star fan; now I’m no longer feeling it

F 'em... My local bike shop did the same to their customers back when business was booming. Their "If you think it's overpriced, don't buy it" smugness was abhorrent. I'm now returning the favour by finding the lowest online price and having them price match it. They have no choice at this point and now they leave their lip prints on my bottom every time I'm there.

In my town, people just buy used bikes for $20-40. Most just use walmart bikes. I've seen very few people who ride anything expensive. I think part of it has to do with how fast those bikes will get stolen since even bottom-of-the-barrel bike theft is a problem here. Location matters greatly for what kind of bike you can safely buy and use. I would imagine there's a significant number of people that would love to buy these more expensive bikes and have the budget for it, but they just can't due to the local crackheads.

Amen!

The number of

Yeah but the market is flooded with "pandemic bikes" so that won't be a problem for a few years.

Wait till January. The "specials" will be truly shocking.

Exactly, bike prices were horrendous but so is everything else lmao! It's not like the bike industry was ever known for being a big money maker either. People hoping for shops to shut down when they barely make profit on bikes in the first place. And wishing for layoffs, evil. Not going to be fun when a bunch of places shut down. And that's just bikes, rest of the economy is going to be rough. Everyone wanted bikes over 2020-2022 so prices went up, as though anyone wouldn't personally take the highest price they can get when selling something.

Lmao

You are talking new bike for $8.000 costs more than decent car? Which car that sells new for 8k can be described as decent?😃

@@LukasDePraga you can get a decent used car or a new motorbike for $8000. Absolutely. Either way, an off the shelf bike with off the shelf components made by a volume manufacturer should not cost what it does these days.

Who could've saw it coming though?!

The problem I have with all my local shops is for guys like me that do all the maintenance on my bike myself they are becoming absolutely useless. The shops never have parts I need when I need them...ever. The shop mechanics think they know all there is to know about bikes but half the time I have to correct them on simple things. All at a price that is beyond ridiculous...I've about given up on the industry as a whole and just stick to private sales and hookups. Its sad but it is as they say "just business"

Straight facts homie. Discount it by 75% I could care less. I have to buy groceries, not electronic drive trains

dont know who got the big freight money but the truck drivers sure didnt get any of it

Yup. I have no issues with companies having top of the line products... but it becomes an issue when their 'starting model' is priced towards making mtb'ing an elitist sport again. On the other hand, I love riding the local trails on my two decade old hardtail having just as much if not more fun then someone who needs to baby their brand new 8k full sus monster ( they barely use to half what it actually can handle ). I even enjoy getting those sideways looks from those snobs, and I love ripping past them on my old clunker ( ... not in the best condition sadly atm.. that's why I cheat with a tsdz2b 😂😂😂😂 ). You know what they say, ride what you have! And enjoy not having to baby your 8k bike 🤘🤘 Since I like wrenching a bit I wouldn't even buy such a bike if I could, I enjoy buying low end bikes and slowly building them up to be capable little machines. Decent hardtail frames are cheap enough, component prices have dropped since the crisis ended ( I can even get mt200's for a normal price again instead of Zoom's ). Not that familiar with full sus, since where I live it just doesn't make much sense ( pancake country, most riding is pretty flat ). I think I could build a very capable bike for 2.5k heck probably even half of that. And if you didn't know, if I placed it in the showroom of a lbs, you might think it comes straight from some factory you never heard of. Mtb's sadly isn't priced to capability but to marketing/branding. You pay 'Specialized' taxes. Even Walmart now has 'decent' entry level mountainbikes... not BSO's but actual bikes.

My alloy 2013 Stumpjumper Elite 29er has new parts parts on it and weighs 30 lbs., and is plenty capable. It has a 67.5 HTA and 74.5 STA, not far off from XC new bikes. The only difference is the TT lengths and wheelbase length by 20-25 mm for a medium frame. I also have a 150 Pike (F) and 130 Deluxe Ultimate (R) which is not XC travel, but at XC weight. I ride in hilly terrain, and the industry has been pushing mountain pro LLS geos on Avg Joes for too long. I have demoed new bike and they just don't seem worth the cash.... until now! The R&D costs got too high for the companies and consumers. The bike is only a tool for the job. The rider is the solution, and bikes have ben great for years. FOMO is the industry driver and it is waning. Your local bike shop needs your business w service, not selling new bikes. They make nothing on bike sales.

Let's see - Innovation. They still have chains, pedals, handlebars, etc. My old steel bike does the same job as the shiny new carbon bike. The new bike may be aero, but I'm not. The new bike may be 5 lbs lighter and maybe riding the steel bike will make me 5 lbs lighter. Old bikes can be fixed. Parts are non proprietary. The old tools fit. I guess I'm saying you are right.

​@@JohnSmith-nw3zgInnovation doesn't necessarily lie in changin the bike as we know it, it has always been about making you, the rider, faster through a lighter and more capable machine.

As a selfish consumer, that's a good thing. My 5 yearold (bought 2nd hand) bike is still "modern". Way I look at it: at least the geo is good, no need to change.

@@TivonSanders That means carbon frames with the size of modern mtbs, and that means $. Alloy f/s trail bikes now weigh 35 lbs w a GX group set of components.

On one hand you're 100% correct, on the other hand 'good for anyone wanting bikes or parts anytime soon' only lasts a limited time. Eventually stock will match with demand again, prices will go up and then we'll have a lacking manufacturing capacity since they been selling old stock from their warehouses and the production personnel has all been sent home. Hence, end result is even higher prices due to availability not matching steady demand. Not to mention that actual technological evolution will be put on a slow cook... like something as internal gearbox transmissions.

@@MarvinWestmaasIt absolutely lasts for a limited time. It’s an ebb and flow. It’s rapidly turning into a consumer market. It’s about time. Consumers ultimately have control.

Good until the bike you just bought no longer has support because the brand closed down. Going to be rough times ahead.

Miss you too buddy! Sometimes I just can't help but commentate on the chaos!

You know me so well. The industry can have themselves at this point

I agree on the propriety part. I like disc brakes fine - but rims brakes are just fine too, I have both. I kind of want a Rivendell 😂. I have AXS on one bike due to what was available at the time, but I actually prefer cables.

This is exactly right. I keep shopping for bikes only to remember why I quit shopping previously.

Dude, agree. Building a new bike and after searching for weeks I gave up… I don’t want or need hydraulics or electronics, disc brakes, or even suspension. I’m not going to pay $600 for a rigid frame. I bought a Trek 720 from the 90’s. Got what are likely to be two of the last sets of shimano deore v-brakes off ebay.

The best mix is 10 speed with disc brakes...seriously a bomb proof setup

You sweetheart heart you 😍👨🏻‍🦰

This is accurate. I work in another industry that had the exact same thing happen during COVID. Finite capacity at the suppliers and skyrocketing demand, so suppliers charged premiums and high MOQ’s with no cancellation policy. Lead times went out a year plus, freight was more expensive and tied-up by all industries, as well as taking up to 15 weeks to get across the ocean. Then demand disappeared.

My 1990 Wicked Fat Chance agrees with this statement.

This 100%. It's the same with my company. Bosses got greedy and we pay the price. Thankfully we don't have problems with inventory, so maybe next year will be back to normal

@@pebbleinspector down from last year but down from 2019? That spike was an anomaly and not to be forecasted upon.

The stupid thing is, they are even higher than in 2022. But the bosses all got SO greedy that they are in this situation now.

Great idea - it'd actually be interesting to talk about a lot of behind the scenes things regarding creator/brand connections

@@pebbleinspector just checked the Trek website, no sales on any of the EXe

@@DaBinCheI’m noticing many of the mid powered e-bikes are still somewhat high priced. Trek will eventually cave.

LBS have definitely not been the ones in the wrong here. Profit margins remained the same, or lower in some circumstances as they were caught out by price rises. It's the manufacturers that have been jacking up prices due to rapidly increasing costs of materials, freight and production.

Tell us you are clueless without actually telling us your clueless. LBS are the villains for sure (eyeroll) Yep, we are still purchasing at 2019 wholesale prices and selling it at the new inflated retail prices raking in the profits. You nailed it, that's definitely what's happening here. Clueless! Just so you know, we all agree that prices are insane and daily ask each other how many folks can afford or want to afford 8-10K bicycles.

Planned obsolescence. Not user serviceable. Fad & bubble economy. Kids having no fathers who teach them how to fix things. Handywork being unworthy. Shopping economy. ... The list can go on forever: 21st century management fundamentals about how to rip off your customers...

The whole RU-vidr influencer thing where someone gets free stuff in exchange for doing marketing for the industry has created a false reality.

Regards local bike shops they are dying out because none carry any stock now, whatever they can supply I can obtain cheaper avoiding their mark up which lastly leaves maintenance/repair and these days with the help of RU-vid there are instructional videos on any task so they no longer offer a service that demands that premium price in my expirence.

You are right. I even message a guy saying, is the price negotiable you are listing higher than a brand new one for your 2 years old model. He tells me to buy the brand new one then. His bike is still listed.

Tell your friend good look. I know people with money who pre 2020 did buy a new bike every year but on principle of being ripped a new one are holding onto there older bikes now.

So many proprietary components and crap it’ll all be worthless.

I've been using my LBS for parts more and more the past year (drivetrains and maintenance stuff). The prices haven't been much more than the typical sites I use and I only have to go 3 blocks away. Plus I get to chat bikes and get whatever insights I can.

I gave up on that. Mine are beyond terrible and lost my trust. No sympathy

Let the first companies you mentioned go down down down for robbing the consumer for so many years with their ridiculous prices

Pretty tied in with Propain, they're weathering this Very Well, as is Devinci, per some chats with the crew at a demo a few weeks back.

Good. I can care less about what brands stay and which ones fizzle out. All I want is an affordable good bike. There will always be more brands to come, and I’m not getting younger. My next bike will be my last.

@@JacesOwnWorld I doubt we’ll see new brands emerging for awhile. We got too many now. Best advice, go with a big name, great warranty.

Dude what? Layoffs and companies closing is bad for everyone. Less choice for all of us and everyone suffers. The bike shops make super small margins on bikes as is, most of their profit is repairs and small items. This is like wishing misery on everyone.

@dylan-5287 nope. When all these overpriced companies lose. The Chinese companies that already build the bikes will be more popular, then the bike companies will have to lower prices to compete. It's time the bike industry suffered for its greed. Bike shop employees need to get knocked down a rung as well. Most bike shop employees are dicks. They act better than you, act as though it's a chore to work on a bike or give help. And God forbid you are new and don't know about bikes yet, they treat like a caveman or their gardener. Bike shop margins are super low? All the mtb/road bike shops I see are in rich parts of town, the employees ride $6000 bikes and the owners drive Mercedes and BMW. Such a tough life 😆 🤣 😂

Your boys tariffs.....good job 😂