If you mean Nbd2, then it comes basically down to whether you need to worry about c4 hanging. So usually if Nc3, you'll see b3 played first in many lines. But, if you need to play b3 to prep Nc3, then it can often be quicker to prepare e4 with Nbd2 - as in this case you don't really need to worry about c4 dropping. I think I discussed this a bit in the '20 ideas every catalan player must know' vid.
Sam, I have seen some games in the Catalan with h4-h5 and g4, specially when the f6 Knight is expelled via e5. So the center is closed. Could you go into these plans? At least with arrows "where to put the pieces ideas.
You mean like for example in the line with 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.g3 d5 4.Bg2 Be7 5.Nf3 0-0 6.0-0 Nbd7 7.Qc2 c6 8.Nbd2 b6 9.e4 Bb7 10.e5 Ne8 11.cxd5 cxd5? This structure?
@@SamAsakaChess No, the one that they attack the kingside with h4-h5. Which conditions should be met for that attack kingside. Like in Dubov-Ding Liren or Carlsen-Sarana (Airthings 2023) adding Ng5. in the latter, Carlsen did not even castle short. So ideas about "where to put the White pieces"
@@Sandfox07 Yes, the Dubov line so to call it, exactly. Apparently the center becomes relatively closed, so White can play in the kingside. Black pieces are all in the queenside because that is where they are trying to have counterplay.
beware of the grunfeld defense. its this same opening but on black. I dont lose to london players because its such a gnarly opening vs the closed style of the london.
This opening vs Kris Chan is like trying to play the Colle System (which is essentially Semi-Slav with a super important extra tempo) vs a g6 setup and that with a tempo down when it can't be recommended even as White vs this setup. Black's play literally looks like a 1700 or 1800 who was taught Colle System and told to basically develop like this unless it hangs material. Speaking of the Colle System, I view it pretty much the same way you view the Catalan. Extremely dangerous against the default approaches one is likely to face.
Some love for my favorite opening. I play it a lot in OTB games with greats results. I dont count how many games i won because my opponant didnt know what to do and lost by playing move who seems good, but were in fact, mistakes. Even in games i lost, i had a winning or at least very better positions.
catalan brought me from 1800 to 2100 (blitz). I Love this opening, and like 90% of u2000 player don’t know how to counter it and you get e4 and positional domination
Best Opening to reach 2,000 was The Closed Sicilian for me. The Closed Sicilian is basically the Catalan equivalent of 1.e4. The Closed Sicilian is a Fianchetto vs. 1…c5. If my opponent plays 1…e5, I play Ruy Lopez Closed Sicilian/Ruy Lopez partnership is a devastating combination! However, I have always wanted to learn the Catalan. As a Fianchetto specialist, I respect and admire all things Fianchetto. The biggest problem with the Catalan isn’t the Catalan as much as the lack of partner. You can play the Catalan against Nimzo and even Queen Gambit Decline as they often have similar pawn structure. D5 + E6 Black pawn set up. The issue is when players play the Slav or D5 + C6 Black pawn set ups. Catalan seems to lack an adequate partner which is the biggest buzz kill in my opinion. I suppose the Queen Gambit would be best partner, but I don’t think I want to learn that theory. I think I am already over loaded with theory so I probably will not try for it. LOL Keep in mind, I play Sicilian Najdorf & Grunfeld with Black pieces. Combine above with my 1.e4 repertoire and the idea of learning another massive branch of theory stemming from Queen Gambit seems like an overloaded.
The Catalan is quite hard to play with black. There are countless long lines Which end up being «fine» for black though I find that white almost always ends up with a nagging advantage
For blitz thwre is a approach dutch/stonewall with qn early Ne4 for black followed by f5 and although engine hates it for black its somewhat hard to play for white and many Catalan players will not handle it very well due to the impossibility of ever achieving e4. I like this setup for blitz but its super risky
How do you deal with sidelines? At the local chess club my opponents often play critical responses with early dxc4, they play a bit of theory and then they enter a sideline. The problem is, when I review the game afterwards, most of the time theres only one good plan for white which is always super complicated, I struggle a lot to find the right responses in these sidelines (Maybe I just need more experience playing the catalan idk)
Yeah so in my next vid I'm going to talk a bit about catalan move orders, so stay tuned for that. If you play d4 c4 move order, there are inevitably going to bemany different open catalan lines they can choose between - and there's no real shortcut to them. If you switch up the move order though you can avoid a lot of the trickiness they can throw at you, though.
Folks, save a few years from your life and play the Stonewall Dutch vs the Catalan and the Classical vs 1d4. I reached 2400 with these two and have played everything else before and concluded the classical systems are simply unplayable above 2300 if you are a dynamic/attacking player. When you get above 2300 you stand no chance vs the Catalan - the opening is a nightmare to face in the hands of a strong player.
Not to be too biased, but I would recommend starting with my video '20 ideas every catalan player must know'. From there you'll be able to make much better use of any course or book you use on the opening. Maybe something like Keep it Simple 1.d4 for example on Chessable.
@@SamAsakaChess Thanks for the recommendation. What a coincidence that I have the KIS d4 course. I started to learn it years before. Do you think it’s good for a 1600 Lichess player?
is that 1600 blitz, rapid, classical? Regardless, I think the whole thing might be a bit much right now, go through the quickstarter and I think you'll be good - and then fill any gaps in along the way as needed.
Check out my video on 'the easiest way to start playing the catalan' I put out last wk, might help give you a start. Also what's your rating? Depending on that you might need a lot less theory than you think
I like to transpose into the Catalan from 1. Nf3 (Zukertort/Reti Opening) because most players don't expect it (they are waiting for e4/d4), and it makes transposing to the English or the Colle System really easy.
I'm really starting to like this opening, however someone like Naroditsky in the only video he made about the catalan said that this opening is really complicated, black has like 15 line after the first moves. He also said he knows 3% of the theory about it. It made me think a bit, maybe against "unprofessional" players it is more easy to play for white, but for example I'm struggling with the lines where black start to push all queen's side pawns, and they seem very natural moves. Have you thought about a complete course about it?
When you say "push all the queen side pawns" do you mean like play ...dxc4, and try hang on to the pawn with ...b5 etc? I would say though yeah in general against most club players you don't really need like that amazing knowledge of all the theory to get good results with catalan, but at master level its a different story and you really need to know your stuff. Yeah there is a course in the works :)
I have a problem with 1.d4-Nf6 2.c4-e6. If I go Nf3 I allow the queens indian, where I struggle to find an interesting option (maybe someone has a tip?). If I go g3, I allow a weird benoni with g3 Bg2. Im not sure which one I prefer. There are some videos on the g3 Bg2 system though, I think by hangingpawns, I may switch to that to avoid falling asleep at the board
Personally, I prefer 3.Nf3 and allowing a queen's indian. But if I were to go 3.g3, I would probably respond to 3...c5 with 4.Nf3 instead of going for the fianchetto benoni - not a big fan of that. Main line is then 4...cxd4 5.Nxd4 d5 6.Bg2 e5 - but there are some problems you can pose, and honestly a lot of people just chicken out and go like 4...Nc6, ...Be7 and develop, after which white gets a pretty nice edge usually.
I play the Catalan and it helped me get to ~ 1600 OTB but I wouldn’t say it’s the ~best~ opening to play under 2000. You get a lot of small advantages (like +1.5) that are hard for a club player to prosecute.
I think this is something you can learn to handle - the typical advantages you get from the opening. Also not sure I would say +1.5 is a small advantage haha. Most players would die to be getting that sort of advantage from the opening. Also U2000 is a broad category ofc. I don't think I would recommend the Catalan so much U1500, but I think above that it is more manageable in that range once you get above that hurdle of 1500.
my problems with the catalan proper are honestly the early open catalan and the Bb4+ Lines. The early open is so much theory where I have the feeling that nowadays, where everyone has chessable, people know their lines and it is hard to get a favourable position. Honestly started to prefer the neo catalan with a catalan transposition into the mainline where white gets a safe slight edge. Also hated facing the slav proper, the Anglo Slav often is much sharper and the white player should be more familiar with it that black. Still love the Catalan though
Yeah I think if you know your stuff you can still do well, but I agree when you start facing people who are like 2000+ FIDE that becomes more common. But I think mixing up the move orders with something like the Neo-catalan as you said is a good approach to try and steer the game away from those more concrete lines.
Catalan Dub against a 1700 in classical: 1.d4-d5 2.c4-e6 3.Nf3-Nf6 4.g3-dxc4 5.Bg2-b5 6.a4-c6 7.Ne5-Nd5 8.0-0-Bb7 9.e4-Nb6? 10.axb5-cxb5 11.Qh5!-g6?? 12.Nxg6!! He played eight moves of theory and then immediately got a really bad position by moving the knight to the wrong square😂 He played on for a few moves but resigned shortly after
I tend to play Reti with g3 fianchetto - which mostly overlaps with the Catalan starting position. How would you say the presence or lack of the d4 pawn but being a move ahead affect the game? Curious if I should convert :D cheers!
You could always use both, as they work together quite well in terms of transpositional possibilities. If you're going 1.Nf3 2.g3, then in general you're going to be giving Black more flexibility in terms of the setups they can go for, as opposed to something like 1.d4 2.c4 and then Nf3 g3 - but of course you also dodge a bunch of annoying lines Black can play after d4 c4 in the process. Also depends if you usually play d4 later, transposing into Catalan-ish positions at some point. I'd say give it a try though, see how you like it.
I'm close to 2300 on lichess, but not crossed 2000 OTB yet. My problem with the Catalan is the theory. For example, did you ever find a good counter to the Stonewall setup mentioned in your ""20 ideas every Catalan player must know""? I've crushed some masters with a quick attack as black from this setup when they try to trade DSQ bishops with me with b3, and the clamp seems depressing.
I mean you kinda just have to play chess when the Stonewall comes on the board, it's not like it's that bad, maybe just a bit worse than the usual closed catalan. There's also like a few different positions where Black can play ...Ne4 and go stonewall, so its hard to give a definitive answer that applies to all of them. Also when you say the theory, you mean like the Open catalan lines for example?
Yeah not completely wrong of an assessment. At his level though he probably wouldn't be facing many of the Open lines anyway though, so I'm not sure that's a huge concern. Also you can play 1.d4 2.Nf3 3.g3 move order and delay c4 to avoid some of that stuff.
Yeah I've never liked 1...e5 that much to be honest myself. I have a video on the Najdorf if you want to check that out: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-DRC-eO1Y9VQ.html
@@SamAsakaChess The English could also lead to Neo-Catalan positions, also if the reverse Sicilian is a problem then white could start with Nf3 and then play c4 at some point.
Yeah I mean I got nothing against the english, but because you're putting less direct pressure on Black from the beginning, they tend to be able to get away with more.
