Why the M9 Bayonet was a Combat FAILURE 

or just slightly more expensive to produce.

What the other guy said, could totally be they were better blades, but cost too much

@@SerpentineJack99 Very possible, but they also claim that the prototype that won was the only one to pass all tests. Could be something the people in charge of the product spread to get public interest, but if it’s true…

I like how “pass” all tests implies just barely.

It broke too easy

Retarded engineering.

AND you're supposed to trust that tiny little tang for prying. One has to wonder how many were snapped trying to use it for that purpose.

NO TANG?! WTF is wrong with the people who decide on what will be standard issue?

That "tang" is downright comical Personally I'm not interested in any fixed blade knife unless it has a full tang.

It's fine. Carried one for years.

You are so right! I saw the exact same from 1983-87 during my service!

Never saw bayonet issued

That’s still the case in 2024

Maybe because you don't need a bayonet in barracks.

Same during my time (2001-2016). They didn't ever come to Afghanistan with us.

If you know you know, bullet proof clipboards were A thing for patrol officers upon availability, anything to put between you and a bullet.

Now if only they had sharpened those clipboards on one side.

For real 😳

Fuck it. Bullet proof lunch trays for everyone. Fuck your tax dollars. RAAAH

CIA Managers too sleek with bulletproof clipboards and pistol pens

The Mo has serrations and a wire cutter for "better" utility

@@Justin-rq6kfcombat units don’t need a bayonet that cuts wire, the units I was in already had wire cutters in our platoon inventory.

@@Williameagleblanketi liked my issue one , just tore the bdus at least mine did but not always

@@Williameagleblanketnever cut wire like you said we had wire cutters but I sharpened mine and used it a lot in the field at Campbell

It completely disregarded the lessons learned from the WW2 Pacific theatre

Get diamond rods. Easy to sharpen.

Not correct.

Only sharpens on one side. This is typical of Siberian knives.

It can be sharpen, but it still would be a shitty knife. And you'll face consequences from your sergeant

when I finally got a edge on a AK bayonet it was probably the worst cutting tool I ever held lol . They make for some great beater tools and obviously you can stick the f out of something with it. But yeah definitely not a knife .

“It hurts more when you stab someone” or “the military was worried people would hurt themselves if it was sharp” are the two usual bs excuses I hear from gun store commandos.

@@thetallone7605 my favorite is “because the blade gets stuck in the bones”

@@tinyfox7349 ooh, I forgot about that one. That’s on par with “the blood groove helps you pull the blade out easier because poking a meat based target creates a vacuum that will hold on to the blade”… even though it’s literally just a fuller that’s designed to make the blade lighter while not decreasing rigidity.

Keeping edged weapons intentionally dull in a garrison environment is an old practice. Privates do dumb shit when given sharp objects and left to their own devices. As far back as the 18th century for example British military sabres were all issued quite dull and left that way until it was time to rotate out on foreign service. Increases the life of the blade (no needless material removal keeping it sharp in a place you don't need it to be) and reduces the risk of incidents (there's a story of an overeager junior officer who lopped off the tip of his poor horse's ear while drilling somewhere). Then the institutional rot sets it, you're in the Red Army, and because bayonets are issued dull Private Conscriptavitch is told in no uncertain terms by his micro managerial leadership (that has as much or less experience than he does) that it shall stay that way "or else."

@@mr.stotruppen8724 Old, stupid practice that is absolutely useless. Got it.

Most of the Geneva and Hague conventions are utterly stupid and not worth the paper and ink they’re written on.

The U.S. can also use hollow point ammunition because we never ratified it, which it is now doing and has done since OTP (Open Tip Match) ammo was authorized to penetrate windshields of cars at roadblocks in Iraq. Ball ammo can bounce off a slanted windshield and can be a cause for fresh underwear.

The hague is useless, having that court think of laws for war when the country its in DOESNT EVEN ALLOW SELF DEFENCE is bullshit

I think it because of the tendency that people who would see the saw and think it breaking the Genova convention and would execute the soldier carrying it. That what happen in ww1 with the German pioneer saw bayonet.

Based on experiences in Vietnam, it was not a stupid requirement. Downed Hueys were exactly the reason for that requirement.

when where you in? I did 6 years (2016-2022) and I never even saw one. like I have never seen one in an armored or anything.

​@@jesseterry6461 in an armored?...

It’s heavy, but I abused the hell out of mine and never had an issue. “Resisted sharpening” is not something I had trouble with. Proper technique is required, but it sharpened as well as anything else. The real draw back just comes down to big and heavy.

Interesting; in my NATO unit, we could spot the Nam vets cz they always carried a German made Puma hunting knife on their belts, even in garrison. They were nice, useful field knives.

@@joelee2371 hell yeah they were.

All things a guy could love sandwiches, weapons and golf.

But the military, in their infinite wisdom (read idiocy) had started that phase of wanting everything to be a “do it all” kind of tool. It’s the cause behind half of the shitty things we’ve gotten over the last few decades. The military tries to make everything too modular and in response lose out on a weapon or item that isn’t focused enough on one thing to be good at that one thing.

Also the deeply stupid concept of a round handle.

Yeah. One of my friends own one of these and oh my god is it a literal brick. For all the supposed endurance testing, the blade constantly wiggles loose even from light use. If you use the handle as a hammering surface, it'll break. The double compound bevel edge and hard steel makes it a pain to sharpen with the included whetstone being pathetic which made it impossible to use as an actual knife. The whole "Jack of all trades" argument he made in the video doesn't float. This thing is just really poorly designed and they only survived whatever testing they did by having more material.

@@eloryosnak4100asymmetrical guard negates a lot of the issues there

Inability to sharpen a knife is user error

The M7 could do that and due to being made out of corrugated steel could be sharpened to a razor sharp edge that lasts with a shop grinder.

You can sharpen ANYTHING! The question is: how many nails can I hammer before it stops being a knife?

The USMC went a different route with our bayonette, but more to your point, i did have Master Guns sit on the back of my truck with his canteen cup and bayonette and shave during one of our convoys. The USMC uses the OKC3S from Ontario Knife Company Edit: didnt realize they would mention it in video

It's actually funnier than that! Few are the units that will issue them, as we're talking about a rather expensive knife, so it's an accountable end item. End result, the damned things languish in the arms room, where they defend it by bulk. Not even useful in bulk, as nobody keeps full sandbags in the arms room, that might be useful.

We used them and never broke any. Not saying I liked it but

Saw one break in the ROK in 1990 when we are on guard duty on the DMZ and the soldier accidently dropped it. Blade broke clean in half. Also the break had what I imagine a cast steel bar would look like as opposed to a forged steel one. Knew right then that it was crap. However, it was what we were issued, so we carried it. However, I shortly thereafter bought a Gerber Mark Two which I also carried. Sadly I lost my Gerber to a home burglery years later. I regret having lost that more than anything else in the house.

Same. Was looking at one myself.

That's sad, these blades are basically " Joe " proof and rarely fail.

​@@BayonetRedneckare we talking Average Joe Proof or Joe X Proof?

@@BayonetRedneck Because Joe's don't ever use them, they stay in the supply cage, unissued. These things break easily because they do everything wrong that you want out of a knife.

Brother, it is the year of our lord 2024, and you were still considering buying an 80s Rambo bayonet for practical use lol? For clarity, I own a surplus LanCay M9 that actually saw use, but purely for collector and historical purposes. I would never even consider using it for bushcraft or survival knife purposes, nor for what it was actually made for either. I have knives that fulfill all 3 of those roles better in every way because knife tech has made so much progress since then. If you want something nowadays that fulfills the m9s role well, then you probably should look for something with full tang, at least .15 in blade thickness and made from a good CPM steel that had a good heat treatment process. Also, should have a micarta, carbon fiber, or g10 handle, no wood. For ex, a good suggestion would be a Benchmade bushcrafter, extremely good brand and just found one discounted for only $150.

They unscrew, one of the pouches on the sheath is where you’re supposed to store them.

Sharper Image hawked a Buck 🔪 in the 1980s. They claimed it was used by SEALs 🔱 SpecWar. They sold it in matte stainless & a carbon black but the black version was not a public item for long. I heard the large field knife had mixed reviews.

​@@DavidLLambertmobile It was used by a few SEALs but it wasn't issued across the board to all the teams just like there are 1000 knives called "SEAL" knives but only a few are really issued to SEALs.

​@@brittburton3264 for what purpose?

@@jacobmccandles1767 Never a grappling hook for climbing, but to grab lines or cables, or an anchor. Whicih is fitting because every time someone picks up one of mine they say "darn; heavy as a boat anchor".

the irl equivalent of video games having 'knife durability" enabled

Why are you using serrations on a knife to cut through metal? Do you use a serrated swiss army knife to cut through sheet steel?

​@@SlavicCelerySo you didn't watch the video.

I had a FDE tan Gerber 🔪 2010s for around 6yr. The USAF SERE blade was thick, meant to aid air crews, downed pilots. The edge got dull after 2-3yr ⬇️ . I rarely used the field knife. It didn't have a full tang either. Some 🔪 collectors, outdoor-campers said Gerbers are +/- in terms of design, QC. I sold the knife around 2018.

@@section8usmc53 That was a different set of serrations. It's like seeing someone use the OG design and then use a bread knife, expecting the same results. Would you expect a SAK to cut through wire with a serrated edge?

@@section8usmc53 The video is ultimately flawed. Yes, the bayonet ended up worse than promised. The problem is for the performance promised, the costs would have skyrocketed. And if you're choosing between funding accurized air dropped munitions or a bayonet, what are you going to pick? Anyone can make a prototype look great. Because costs of a prototype don't matter. When you're manufacturing hundreds of thousands of an item, then costs do matter. Soft steel is better for thrusting. It is worse for cutting metal, and holding an edge. So, why would you expect a metal tool for thrusting to be great at cutting?

Exactly! I packed a box cutter. Nam '71 11B

I think the KM 2000 uses N695 steel, which is like Spyderco's VG-10. Good stuff.

Ontario closed in 2024. RIP.

After a quick Google I found that Eickhorn bayonet on a website called German Knife Shop, although given that I've never heard of the site before I can't say for 100% certain that it's legit.

Does the Ontario version have a full tang?

Have to agree with you, I carried a USN MkII fighting knife for close to 12 years. Never had a moment of worry that it would let me down. A few years back I managed to buy a used USMC M7 and jumped on it. Granted my days of dismounting are long gone but I do appreciate a good knife.

* F-35 has entered the chat *

Got that one too probably my favorite. There is a serious lack of options for people who actually want a bayonet though.

I had the M7B but I hated the rubber material. I ended up getting a surplus Imperial Knife Company M7 instead.

We got them for a hot minute in Bosnia, then guys who had never been camping or had a sheath knife before started screwing around and cutting themselves so they got taken away and locked up till the end of the deployment. One of the guys in my platoon decide to "hang on" to his, and it was absolutely treated like someone lost a pistol or a set of NVGs.

Kind of a dumb opinion. Yeah it's not 1863 anymore, but soldiers can always benefit from a decent field knife. The OKC bayonet I had in the marines was quite useful to that purpose, so much so I bought one after I got out.

​@@patrickbateman312 I suppose I should be insulted you called my opinion dumb. And hey, some of them are, even IMO. However, I aimed my critique at bayonets, not field knives. I never said field knives were bad. So it's a reading comprehension thing for you. You're not obligated to live up to Marine stereotypes.

@@EricDaMAJ right, so as rifles have evolved so too have bayonets. It's not impossible or impractical to have a field knife which doubles as a bayonet. Get your life together, boomer.

​@@patrickbateman312I agree. I started with the M7 (a sturdier knife than the M9, but a lousy field knife overall for anything more involved than cutting open MREs), moved to the M9 (a *slightly* better cutting implement, but a worse bayonet and too easy to break). The OKC the Marines adopted after the M9 is a better bayonet than either of them, and a *far* better field knife overall. It's such a good field knife, it's what I use camping - the blade is the right length and weight to allow it to be a good chopper on small saplings while still being a good *cutter* and not so ridiculously large and heavy as to be a net disadvantage to the force overall. And the small serrated portion near the base of the blade is excellent at cutting straps and ropes. There are better bayonets, but the next one up in quality and performance costs about $500 for *minimal* improvement - and you can't afford to equip the whole infantry with such Gucci knives. The OKC does the job 99% as well (and better than anything cheaper than it), for a cost the military can reasonably afford. Which is what a bayonet *should* be, since the development of the bolt action rifle with a box magazine in the late 19th Century. Troops will *always* need a good, sturdy field knife that can cut and chop, isn't a ginormous clunky weight, and is has a good carry system. Since they really need that, might as well put a bayonet mounting system.on it for those few occasions where the bayonet is actually useful. Note that bayonets aren't good weapons *as bayonets* because they're great at inflicting *casualties* directly... they're *psychological* weapons attacking the enemy's morale, so it's easier to *shoot* then as they freak out becayse they think they're going to get pinned like a butterfly by some bloodthirsty barbarian who *enjoys* that kind of crap. That was even true back when bayonets and "cold steel" were a typical thing used in most battles. The point of the bayonet was to break enemy formations and deter cavalry charges going home, because of a very deep fear of being *stabbed* . It took well disciplined, well drilled forces who confident they were *better* bayonet fighters than the enemy closing with them to hold the line against a bayonet charge in the muzzle loading days with 2 feet of bright steel on the end of every musket.

I use my M4 Bottle Breacher for 🍺 or sodas on occasion. Bottle Breacher is a veteran owned; SEAL company.

Beer bottles of course. Yeah I can use a lighter or brick wall, fence, but the proper one on my keychain (crown cork 1940s that cost $3) is easier. Glock knife has a nice one btw.

Beer and some sodas

It's in case you are attacked by a bottle.😏

so soldiers dont break their magazines trying to use them as a bottle opener for lack of a proper bottle opener. it was actually a problem.

Agree with you, redacted2763. I'm sitting here pretty puzzled. I was in the 82nd Airborne Division (325th AIR) back in 1984-1989. Sometime in that period we were issued the Humvee, the 9mm pistol, lightweight BDUs, and.....the M9 Phrobis bayonet. With all of the off-Bragg deployments, EDREs, NTC, JRTC, Jungle School, jumps and so forth, like you, I never heard a complaint about it as regards breaking or other quality issues. Never heard of a jump injury from the screwdriver blade. Nothing came loose; mine still rock solid. We carried them all the time, and we used them. Troops had been carrying whatever knife they wanted, such as a Buck, K-Bar, USAF aircrew knife, even a few older guys with Randalls. Our task force Field SOP was changed to require everyone to carry the M9. Still have my original Phrobis on my original LBE. (I bought a banged-up used M9 Phrobis from a surplus store on Yadkin Road and used that one to turn-in when I PCS'd! Funny thing was, many guys started doing the same thing--keeping their M9s--but that was stopped when IG and Command Inspection people started noticing non-Phrobis non-reg knock-offs showing up in the arms rooms inspections and inventories! 😉).

I was thinking the same thing. Not saying I really used it much but… All of these RU-vid “experts” Like did the person making the video ever even hold one

When you've relying on the SA80, no wonder, you're probably going to need it...

They are redundant in modern warfare. They're useless against enemy combatants wearing any generation of body armour from the past 30+ years, which is more common now. British infantrymen would be better off carrying an extra 30-round mag than a bayonet. If you're in a situation where bayonets are viable, then those 30 extra rounds per man is more than enough to solve the problem. The enemy is close enough for accurate shot placement too.

LMFAO what the fuck???

@@benfennell6842 i was feeling saucy at 4am

@@hugosinclair6798 go go gadget stab wound

@@benfennell6842 it was either the rifle and bayonet that scared the methead off, or the fact the naked fatguy screaming "FRESH MEAT!" holding it

TALLY HOO! 10/10 Would not want to be the dumb s.o.b who breaks into your place.

oh look, the minority

I'm a veitnam vet and I like the old one still using the old one today

Emirate of Abu dhabi

@manshoe1738 Ah, that's right, thank you!

Knife’s I mean…. Nice !

Because 'just about anything' includes things like 'magazine feed lips'

@@shatara42 or BiC lighters, or rocks, or sticks. Any flat surface with an edge. Probably better to teach military not to use magazines than to waste tooling on such a superfluous feature 🙄

I got my thigh sliced when doing the bayonet assault course in basic at Ft Benning 1991

Spike bayonets only do one thing, a thing that really hasn’t had anything to do with modern combat for a long time. From the end of WWII onward, the US Army and others have known that bayonet fighting is obsolete; but if you’re going to issue a highly useful field knife, what’s the harm in making it possible to put it on the rifle just in case? Think of these things as knives first (and the M9 is doodoo as a knife).

@@509Gman Not necessarily you can still give a spike bayonet some usability if you make it flat it would work as a pry bar or screw driver. And for knives most guys just carry a pocket folder even if they are issued a bayonet because using a bayonet to open a box is overkill.

Seems to be the case with a lot of RU-vid videos

It would be absolute garbage.

@@Askorti yep. Some Billy badass would think he would look cool carrying one and suddenly he’d become a bullet magnet and all the secret sauce inside him would be outside him, feeding the grass.

you mean like a Pyramid head in Silent Hill Homecoming? 😀

Every few hours you'd have to swap which side you carry it on.

I actually made one while I was quarantined

Mine came razor-sharp.

Mine was sharp also

Bayonets are essentially obsolete anyway, the idea was basically to make a general-purpose military knife that can also be popped on the end of a rifle in a pinch.

@@jic1 I don't disagree with you. But experts have been saying bayonets are obsolete for the last 60 years and yet they're still being used in close combat. They may have limited practical use these days, but psychologically they can still have a big impact.

It happens but somethings gone horribly wrong if you are fighting a guy with your bayonet. Most soldiers will only use it as a weapon in training.

Has a bayonet ever run out of ammunition? And if a bayonet is stronger than your rifle barrel it can bend the rifle barrel and what does that do to your shot grouping?

@@member2845 If you're reduced to fighting with your bayonet in a modern context, you no longer care about your rifle's accuracy.

The geneva convention absolutely probibits weapons. Chemical, for one.

Actually, although I do not like the stubby tang, it does not seem to be a problem. It just works for what it needs to do.

Here is a case where the problem isn't the multifunction isn't the problem, but the implementation is nonsensical. Giving up the modularity and the prybar functions would make the knife better at being a jack of all trades. It would be stronger and lighter.

He clearly didn't. Just another hate video for views

There were probably a box of M9s or M7s in the armory that only ever got pulled out for doing inventory. It's part of the M4's BII IIRC.

4 soldiers charging a handful of poorly trained hajjis with bad aim doesn't exactly lend credibility to the bayonet's role in modern combat.

Yeah the Brits know a thing or two about mass stabbings

​@@redclayscholar620Pure nonsense. There're multiple large-scale bayonet assaults in recent years. You should read about them.

@@zoltancsikos5604 large scale? Name one. Not since Korea has there been any "large scale" bayonet charges.

@@redclayscholar620 "Not since Korea..."? How about Moore's 7th Cavalry at Ia Drang in 1965 (Read the book, We Were Soldiers Once...And Young, not the movie). In 1982, the British Army mounted bayonet charges during the Falklands War, notably the 3rd Battalion, Parachute Regiment during the Battle of Mount Longdon and the 2nd Battalion, Scots Guards during the final assault of Mount Tumbledown. In 1995, during the Siege of Sarajevo, UN peacekeepers of the French 3rd Marine Infantry Regiment charged Serbian forces at the Battle of Vrbanja bridge. Actions led by the regiment allowed the UN peacekeepers to retreat from a threatened position. Two fatalities and seventeen wounded resulted. During the Second Gulf War and the war in Afghanistan, British Army units mounted several bayonet charges. In particular, in 2004, at the Battle of Danny Boy in Iraq, the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders charged mortar positions of the Mahdi Army. The ensuing hand-to-hand fighting resulted in an estimate of over 40 insurgents killed and 35 bodies collected and nine prisoners. Sergeant Brian Wood, of the Princess of Wales's Royal Regiment, was awarded the Military Cross for his part in the battle.

KA-BAR isn't known for the strength of its tang either.

​@@jic1I'd tather take the Japanese type 30 "short sword" Arisaka bayonet, that's one wonderful blade.

@@dobridjordje I think I may actually have one of those (my grandfather brought back a Japanese bayonet from the war, but I'm not sure of the exact model). If people are complaining that the M9 is too big and heavy that's even worse, and it's next to useless as a general-purpose knife.

@@jic1 Type 30 were known to be extremely sharp and yes a bit weighty but were essentially used as short swords which could do a lot of damage in close quarter combat, especially when mounted on the type 99 or 38 rifle.

@@dobridjordje It's not that I disagree with you, it's just that they would be nothing but a cumbersome nuisance to a present-day soldier.

One knife…

YES!

A fukkin men

I see the merit of attempting a do-both-things blade to reduce the amount of issued stuff, but at the same time you're totally right. If i was responsible for development (and not forced by lobbyists in my decisions) i'd make a short pokey bayonet that's as small as possible whem carrying and ask Victorinox to provide SAKs, just as they do for the swiss military since decades now.

Okay bro you pack two knives

Pure nonsesne, Don.

AK/AKM bayonets are lighter and better bud. Plus they have killed a huge number of troops since 1949.

@@dobridjordje Lighter, but we found some either bent or broken. I think the nation of production has a lot to do with it. I have a couple of friends that served in the Soviet army back in the 80s. They had mixed feeling about their bayonet too.

@@HaroldLittell You should see the Yugo M70 bayonet, excellent craftsmanship, also Chinese type 56 spikers are nasty, a lot of Vietnam vets remember, my personal favorite is FAL bayonet, but also I'd like to clarify, this video is smoking crack, M9 bayonet is pretty solid piece of gear, just asked Marines in Fallujah what would be the go to weapon after ammo runs out.

@@dobridjordje Right on. I have a Yugo under folder and RPK. Great guns. They over built them! All used the heavier RPK trunnion and 1.5 mm thick steel for the receiver while everyone else used 1 mm. Yugoslavia set up the Iraqi AK production in the 80s so we ran into the pattern all the time.

@@dobridjordje And yes, smoking crack sounds right.

The problem is that its not put together sturdy for how heavy it is to many weak point where it could break from heavy use and abuse. For something that heavy you would expect it to be damn near indestructible.

It doesn’t matter this video is longer than anyone in a line unit will actually hold a bayonet outside arms room inventory, in their entire career.

@@thomasstevenhebert It does as its supposed to double as a work tool. Imagine spending 200 USD on a multitool that's dull and doesn't work for anything.

@@happyjohn354 yes and it still doesn’t matter as the tool literally never leaves the arms room. Even on deployment, they sit in the tough box in the arms room connex. They are on MTOE but they aren’t used by any anyone. There are enough unit or personal bought pocket knives & multi tools for normal knife work. Track or Truck BII Ax if you need a larger blade.

Well if it’s attached to the rifle as a bayonet it doesn’t really matter