There is is also a factor of the operating system. Basically in Linux vs windows scenario Linux always wins in terms of amount resources it needs to run in comparison to windows which also results in better power efficiency because the less resources you use the less power drawn will be. Valve is using SteamOS which current version is based on Arch linux while ROG Ally uses standard windows with all its bloat which will have also Asus bloat included. Not to mention windows and older game compatibility is meh at best and dont get me started on windows updates.
@@liamconverse8950 It is the whole Z1 Extreme is basically a marketing ploy to make potential customers thing that this is some kinda custom chip when in reality is standard production APU with changed volatges.
The Steam Deck feels more and more like it was designed according to principle that was famously employed by Gunpei Yokoi at Nintendo: "Lateral thinking with withered technology" Course, using PCIe 3 vs 4 is less extreme then going for monochrome LCDs when color is already common place, but the basic philosophy is comparable.
@@Lestibournes it’s squeezing everything out of affordable (usually older) tech for your specific use case. Remove everything that is extraneous and nonessential to your purpose. For a battery powered gaming device you are trying to save every tiny bit of power possible while still providing a fun experience. While not a direct 1:1 comparison, since Valve basically modified cutting edge (for the time) technology during the Decks development, you can still see how they kept the design philosophy close to heart. I think this philosophy is particularly evident with the trackpads, the performance efficiency at lower TDP, and SteamOS itself. Still would’ve liked an OLED display tho.. 😅
I dont think a SD 2.0 is on the way, as valve is trying to improve the compatibility of steam os for backcatalog of games... Mindlessly improving hardware before optimizing the software is the main problem of pc gaming. And i want to believe steam deck is an effort to show people you can use older hardware. Nintendo has a similar approach, they dont use super powerful hardware and do not do main hardware revisions to their consoles for almost a decade... Also using linux instead of windows is a statement in itself, "not using bloated software so you do not need high hardware". Anyway these are my two cents
@@Lestibournes yes, but the SoC the Switch uses, an Nvidia Tegra X1, came out in January 2015. So the internals were already quite outdated from day 1 of release, lol. I think they slightly erred with the memory however. Higher clocked memory gives a significant improvement on the Switch and they could’ve squeezed more out of the SoC if they had done that. Nintendo has always put more emphasis on the the games than on the hardware. That is the correct strategy, in my opinion.
DX9/10/11 is really not the problem. Proton's DXVK has done an amazing job to getting those titles working. Even reaching out to Devs for help with online play. SD2 is definitely coming, and Dev's should be convinced of it's usefulness.
Now it looks like the VR console will be next. It makes sense that Steam wouldn't want two new expensive hardware products out fighting each other for customers' gaming dollars at the same time.
Very insightful! I would not underestimate the software differences, though. Steam OS has a lot of tweaks even to the Linux kernel to optimize for gaming workloads. I think it’s unlikely Windows has undergone similar optimization for the Ally.
Yeah, I was thinking this too Steam Deck: Fully custom APU + Fully custom Linux OS Ally: Off the Shelf APU + Off the shelf Windows + software to slightly tweak power consumption
The 8 Zen4 cores is a bit overkill for a handheld. Yeah, it's a high performance laptop chip. There's rumors that the Van Gough chip was originally developed for Microsoft Surface but they ended up not using it.
Great video! I am all in on Steam Deck because I price made it easy to take the risk. With how amazing it has been I will not be replacing it until Valve makes something significantly more powerful (keeping those track pads of course)
The goal is long battery life for portability. They should be focusing more on that in future products. If it's just playing at home, gaming laptop exists.
Any idea if half the cores on the Z1E were to be parked by software or from bios. would the saved amount of power be sent to GPU instead? wouldn't that (theoretically) make it behave closer to VG? I think 99% of Ally user will not use more than the extra 4 CPUs cores it has.
According to The Phawx's rigorous experimentation, they've come to the hilarious conclusion that disabling cores in the 6800U doesn't really save power to the GPU. In fact, it sometimes results in lower performance at the same TDPs. Now, while we haven't tested it on the 7840U, I'd bet my collection of vintage floppy disks that you'll likely witness a similar comedy of errors. So, my friend, it seems like disabling cores won't give you any superpowers, but hey, at least you'll have a good laugh and the same TDPs!
@@Ali-dp6xv this is true. I did an experiment with desktop Ryzen 1700x a few years back. I disabled 4 cores hoping I could overclock the remaining 4 cores to higher clock and lower temps. No clock improvements and no lower temperature 8 cores vs 4 cores
I would like a better CPU for the next Steam Deck and a slightly better GPU, maybe being at least 25% faster at the same power. What I really would like is a Occulink 2 connector that I can hook it up to an eGPU for high end performance. That or Valve can release Steam OS for everyone to use, but the vendors can have a "extra software features" update button to add in support for things they might add in like eGPU support and whatever else they want to add.
Deck 2 Custom APU: * Zen4c - style little cores laid out in a power optimised physical IP cell library. * Memory on-package using the lowest power HBM variant available at design finalisation time. * GPU: RDNA 3.5 (a tock design fixing whatever issues made RDNA 3 performance below expectations). Also, relevant system-wide feature to keep the GPU down-clocked and cool: * Display: 1920*1200 native, relying on OS support for upscaling from any framebuffer resolution, including dynamic resolution by forcing the application's window to resize to hit TDP and frame time targets in a fake fullscreen windowed mode.
Nothing replaces a steam deck like nothing re🎉places a switch You can come close but it takes a lot of tinkering 😅 I have both and love them both but two separate systems You can make some handheld devices do all both but not very well something will suffer
Steamdeck has over a year's worth of software and firmware updates. All the reviews and comparisons are against the pre-release marketing units of the Ally, so they are not representative of the actual market units. Asus has already said they've fixed a handful of the issues that have been brought to their attention during this marketing phase, and they've also said that more updates are coming via OTA changes. Yes, the Steamdeck is an awesome piece of hardware combined with SteamOS, but the Ally is going to disrupt the market that will only make it better for the consumers. It's an exciting time.
This was such a good video, the differences going on at a silicone level aside, windows will be a mega negative for a handheld with resources in the background too
My Steam Deck plays everything i would ever want to play on the road. AAA games over rated and indie is where its at. and if i want it still plays the bigs games after they optimize for PC anyway
For me Ally is a winner, windows OS allows anything you can install on a normal PC to be installed, that includes pirated games for those unable to afford them. Steam deck is tied to your steam account so only purchased games or EMU games. No contest. Steam loose out on my cash due to unavailability, I have tried for 3 months to buy one and only option is the 512gb, I wanted the 64gb version which I planned on upgrading myself. Now the Rog Alley is out it's a no brainer, almost the same price as the current Steam Deck that is available but you a better screen, better CPU and install what you want and not tied to Steam OS and what games you have purchased there.
Yeah, I think most fanboys forget that there are other places to get games (whether that's another store front or pirating). You don't even want to know what a nightmare it was to try to play my own, older, games from discs on the steam deck. I used a program to convert them to isos which are perfectly playable on windows but not at all simple on the steamdeck!
you forgot to mention the trackpads as an advantage for the deck, they improve the experience in certain games not designed to be played with a controller. another thing to consider is game streaming, contrary to what the Rog Ally presentation said, cloud gaming DO WORK on linux, they implied you need windows for that wich isnt truth at all! in fact microsoft made some patches specifically targeting linux to improve the xcloud experience on it! if we take into account that cloud gaming wont use the internal hardware too much, steam deck should be better at this use case too, since it probably wont need more than 10 watts to receive/decode an video streaming, you probably can reduce the consumption to 4W and get at least 8 hours of gaming , contrary to the rog ally wich cant go bellow 9w, and may struggle to decode videos if you reduce the clock too much.
Also the Steam Deck's RAM runs in Quad Channel configuration which also adds to the performance. Yeah that makes sense why the Steam Deck out performs the Ally at wattages below 15 watts is because the Deck is optimized to run and performed at those wattages unlike the Ally. The only thing that is custom about the chip of the Ally is in name only the rest of it there is nothing custom about the Ally's SOC.
Battery tech still long ways off, with out making it to heavy. I think chips that Aim to get as much battery life the better it is to make a lighter handheld that last longer is better in my book.
Valve wins on both scenarios just because even if they buy the ROG Ally, a part of these mobile pc gamers will buy games from Steam. No matter how many competitors we all know that Valve somehow will benefit to it. Now Apple and their M silicons need to play catch up.
Why do people think that it is required for the Ally to beat the Steamdeck on every aspect? Those two can easily coexist and have their own identity and percs... Let's not forget that the Steamdeck at release was NOT what it is right now. It used to slow down upon opening the fast settings, did not have a profile for each game, no 40hz, no Cryobites tweaking, no homebrew plugins, no GE proton, etc. It's not crazy to think that seeing a big name pushing windows gaming on handheld will help create the same kind of movement the Deck benefited from. Even if it's not to the same extent Valve did because the Linux community is kinda boss! Let's wait and see what kind of magic the community and some optimized drivers/software can bring.
@@BobDevV I know that Proton existed before the Deck..I just said that the Proton community really helped when it comes to making the SteamDeck what it is today, wether it's the main Proton or GE,etc As for windows i never said nor implied that the Windows community could help the windows handlheld to the same extent that the linux community did with the deck. I just assumed that, at least, it can help polishing many things while AMD and Asus work on their Drivers and firmwares. Which could bring even better results than those that we already have. I had many GPD and one Aya Neo, i remember pretty well tweaking the bios, handling drivers and having few tools like tdp switchers, tools for overclocking and undervolting, etc. And obtaining a 15-30% performance gain overall...Everything came from the community and helped squeeze the power of those handheld. A big part of The Phawx's succes is actually related to his work on Windows handhelds...
@@BobDevV There is no need for that much work... The Ally already has it's own real percs(power, compatibility, screen)... Any plus is cherry on a pretty cool cake which can totally exist along the Deck. I have the Deck myself and i'm pretty sure the Ally won't make up for Steam Input, or the Deck's pricepoint. Still, i preorder the Ally because of what it can already do, and it's potential to do even better with existing solutions and probable new ones (+official drivers,etc).
These were my sentiments exactly, although to be fair around the release window of thebsteam deck, its battery life was worse than it is now. But after a year of updates, optimizations and quality of life improvements, its definitely in better shape! So heres to hoping that asus will continue updates and support on this front within its first year to improve performance and quality of life
Hello High Yield, it's been a while since your last upload. I hope you're doing well and continuing to make consistent uploads. 😁 Don't dwell too much on videos with low view counts; learn from mistakes and move on. 🔥
According to The Phawx's rigorous experimentation, they've come to the hilarious conclusion that disabling cores in the 6800U doesn't really save power. In fact, it sometimes results in lower performance at the same TDPs. Now, while we haven't tested it on the 7840U, I'd bet my collection of vintage floppy disks that you'll likely witness a similar comedy of errors. So, my friend, it seems like disabling cores won't give you any superpowers, but hey, at least you'll have a good laugh and the same TDPs!
I have been thinking a lot lately, people are very excited about the price about the Asus ROG ally isnt it basically a decent laptop with the keyboard cut off and a smaller screen? Can't you buy a decent similarly spect laptop for about or lower then the price of the rog ally? I have the steam deck and I have the Rog ally pre-ordered and am looking forward to getting it. But I don't exactly agree when people make the claim that Asus isn't making money off of these units. It's mostly off the shelf parts, it's windows 11 with a little optimizing. Memory prices and chip prices have fallen throughout the last year or so. When you think about everything Valve has put into the steam deck, custom chip, custom version of linux that makes PC gaming very approachable for maybe the first time on the go, you realize how insane of a deal that 64gb steam deck really is. People gush over that 1080p screen on the rog ally, people gush over it's pure power but in truth is your likely going to turn all those settings down to close to what they would be on the steam deck anyway to conserve battery. I'm not saying the Asus rog is a bad product by any means, like I said im looking forward to it. But in my opinion the Steam Deck is a way better value and I think the Steam deck isn't going to have any problems outselling this thing massively. The steam deck is a game console that happens to be a PC, the Asus rog is a PC that happens to be a game console.
For me the colour and contrast ratio of the screen, and charging rate of the steam deck makes me uncertain. I would much rather have a small amount of time with the ally screen than a long time with the steam deck screen. Nobody seems that bothered about the screen from that perspective.
Do you own the steam deck? My screen is terrible. I'm not sure how it was assembled but there are white pressure marks around the top left and bottom left of the screen, as if the casing is pushing against the panel. Not to mention everything looking slightly gray, even with software adjust to it.
@@jollyrancherchick I saw one in a second hand shop and it really put me off, so I waited. That was before the rog ally was public knowledge. I can’t be doing with that, colour is a big part of the experience for me.
Why are RU-vidrs insistent on comparing two different price points on products; it's as though they are competing with one another with meaningless "content" lol. Sure, let's compare the most expensive model from the Mercedes Benz with the Toyota Corolla. Note that the only difference between all 3 Steam Deck is primarily storage capacity starting at $399. And I have no doubt that Steam will have another 10% discount in the near future.
I'm getting N-Gage vibes from both of them and wine isn't suited for portable gaming especially not now that all games are Direct3D, whether they run on wine or not is irrelevant thinking it gets even close to native is naive.
Thanks for the highlights of both consoles but your forgetting the asus rog ally still has time for updates in software and will out perform the steam deck the steam deck had the same issues when it first came out too
wow this video really helped explain the biggest "shortcoming" (slower RAM) I thought the Deck had and now makes me appreciate those choices 👍 just wished Valve would have communicated it themselves as gamers always want the latest and greatest even though it might not be in their best interest 🤷♂
@@mutantmagnet Not to mention right now Valve wins either way, they want more handhelds out there right now they dont need to convince ppl the deck is better since its sold millions already, they just want more x86 handheld out there that can eventually run their Steam OS, the os is what they will try to convince ppl to get in a couple years away from windows.
The mockup does a great job conveying just how much die area the Steam Deck devotes to its GPU compared to the Ally. One device is min-maxed for the task of 'portable gaming machine', the other is just a (very good) laptop APU stuffed into a Switch/Steam Deck form factor. On the other hand, my Switch never actually leaves the house, and I'm sure many other people treat theirs similarly. So as you point out, a more power-hungry device still has its place. Excellent video --
Most reviews at the moment are “if you use double the power on a more powerful chip gives you more power than the steam deck” I’m glad you delved into the silicone level which demonstrates the care and attention that went into the valve chip 👍
In all honesty, for my use case, Valve knocked it out of the park. I love my Asus parts in my PC, but I haven't used it in a long time as the deck is just so fun. It is very interesting what they did to make it happen, custom chips seems to be the future, build for the use case not for general all purpose. I wish Asus well and hope its successful but I'll definitely be waiting on the deck 2. Touch pads... I need them, plain and simple, without them I will not consider buying.
Valve has proven, like with their games and recent HW (VR), the painstaking process of attention to detail and UX design. The Steam Deck I believe is the TRUE handheld device, where I believe Valve has taken notes from Nintendo with fully utilizing and compromise with HW. The idea of making use of HW while plugged in a handheld is odd to me, it's not a true handheld experience. As you said the Ally lacks to power itself at lower tdp lvls with its increased core count/CUs, and IO. I've watched the Phawx, and the 7840U and Z1 Extreme while the same, the 7840U handles voltages, freq differently while still within ~10W, the same as the Ally and performing better. Interesting watch, and maybe the Ally could be improved on. Thinking about it, I am curious how the regular Z1 will handle with fewer 2 cores to power and 4CUs that'll potentially be sufficiently powered at lower wattage. Although the $100 difference in MSRP between this and the extreme is weird. I think if it were priced at $550 it'll be more competitive compared to the deck with a 512GB nvme storage and the better screen.
@@BobDevV That's fair, I completely forgot the mediocrity that was the steam machines and its precursor with the dual trackpads and planted the seeds for proton. Also, holo iso is a great shout, thanks for bringing it to my attention.
Yes I think the regular Z1 is probably destined for the scrap heap. Why launch an inferior powered version of your product a couple of months later when your line up is designed around the most powerful handheld.
@@hgh1727 True, and the MSRP $100 difference is like the 7900 XT vs XTX, it's a play to get you to go for the expensive option unless you don't live in the US
ASUS probably gave people early access so they can get early feedback. Valve did the same thing. The two companies will compete for our $, which is good for us.
The Steam Deck has Steam OS and has an optimisation advantage. Where as the Rog Ally has Windows which already has great compatibility. I feel like it would be more of a chore to use Windows on a handheld. I definitely prefer a console ui on handhelds.
When I get my ally I’m going to install a new OS or try to get rid of all the bloatware. I've heard it's confirmed that you can download the armory crate software afterwards so i'd probably be able to increase performance more than stock windows.
You shouldn't expect updates on the ally. After Asus sell their devices, they have no motivation to make updates. Steam want to make the Steamdeck better, because they wan't that people keep playing, so they can sell games on steam. Also Windows 11 on the ally limits the possibilities for upgrades. So better you buy whats you get with the ally and don't expect them to repair bugs.
There's a serious problem with the unit when it falls behind by 40% compared to 7840U at all power levels in most games. Even falls behind the 6840U at some power levels. 10W 5W are the biggest problems with the Ally and the Z1E.
It’s bad that this video made me want to get a steam deck now purely from the design considerations. Update: I bought a Steam Deck and it feels amazing and really well polished, Valve did an amazing job at designing and producing it.
I would choose the Ally as I need a windows pc for travel. Handheld gaming was the bonus and almost half the price of the laptop i was considering... Already have the Steam Deck.
@@dennardanthony8582 Same! My steam deck has been sitting on a shelf in my closet for the last few months. The steam deck made me realize I want portable pc gaming. It also made me realize how much I took windows compatibility for granted lol.
The beautiful thing about the Valve using Linux for the SteamDeck is that they could optimize the drivers and kernel for their specific hardware and usecase. This flexibility doesn't exist on Windows.
Phawx also thoroughly tested the Z1 extreme in Ally against the 7840U inside a GPD Max. 7840U manages to handily outperform the Z1E at the same power levels and has a significant delta at lower wattages as well. It's all related to voltage regulation in the Ally. With proper tuning, it should be able to match the Deck at lower TDPs, outperforming might be a stretch for now.
Windows has been getting destroyed by Mac for exactly this reason. The M1 Macbook Air easily has 3x or more the battery life of the next-longest-lasting 14inch laptop. It's ridiculous! I wish we had the Valve APU for Laptops. I'm desperate for a laptop that can run on 2-6W like an M1 can. It's not just "ARM vs x86", it's the wasted 3-4W that was mentioned in this video!
The mocked up die analysis explains a lot! I don't really see this kind of analysis much on other channels. You definitely deserve more subs! Come on algorithm....
Doesn't matter. I've had the steam deck for a year and rarely use it. Gaming 60 FPS max(most time 40 to 50) with no vrr just sucks. I would 1,000,000% be OK with higher power tdp limits to push more frames and less battery life than playing less than 60 with no vrr. 😂
There's a disgruntled pattern about Ally "Reviews" going on with these lower tier youtubers who obviously have not had a hands on with the ally itself. They all seem to be "guessing" how bad it is or will be etc etc...
You didn't refute his claim while we know Asus lied about Z1 being a custom chip. Who is being a fan boy? Why would Asus lie about Z1 being a custom chip?
If I wanted to play while plugged in, why would I even be using a portable? Even if I did, I’d simply stream the games from my desktop system. Battery life is therefore a huge consideration for these devices.
Maybe you need a semi-portable system, e.g. because you switch between two homes. Or you use it for your daily commute which means sitting in a train for 1-1.5h, something that would work well with the ROG Ally.
Even though the rog ally is a more basic chip, it works for me. I'm on my tablet right now, connected to an external power brick. So, really, I'll get way more than enough battery life in my normal use case before sitting near a charger, or putting the external brick in a charger. If we got a new custom chip though..... Lawd.... Custom, 6 cores, 16-20 cus should be possible.
they have both pros and cons! rog ally is power hungry that is why it needs more TDP to play smoothly while SteamDeck consume less battery as much as possible with the help of low TDPs...but in the end it both offers same common goals...play games on the go
Your videos never cease to amaze me. I recognize your video is largely about power efficiency, but I was in discussion last month, why consoles are often better in actual gaming than pc with some of the latest games. I believe due to balance and efficiency from the game design stage to pc hardware it’s programmed for in comparison to newest consoles. “Purpose Built vs All Purpose”, it’s not just about brute power. Your talk of custom design, balance, i/o, memory processing and bandwidth is translatable to pc gaming ecosystem. Hardware manufacturers and game devs must establish balance. I believe pc gaming issues are largely due to data I/O and memory bandwidth at the software level. Devs can start by requiring SSD, (ideally NVME) and maybe VRAM rqmnt tiers such as 8Gb - 1080p, 10-16gb 1440p, 20gb+ for 4K. They should quickly adopt DirectX 12 Ultimate featureset, most importantly Direct Storage. GPU manf. should ensure the VRAM amnt\bandwidth is suitable and balanced with gpu processing power at targeted resolutions. Stop starving powerful gpus with low bandwidth VRAM. PC does so many things well, but it must find a way to address and minimize its weakest links. Rising tide lifts all boats. Stop trying to use brute force and excess in one area to offset design flaws or shortfalls in others. There’s art and elegance to balance and efficiency.
I don't need a super powered modern handheld. I just need something that will play older windows games portable like Kotor, twisted metal, beast wars, and so on. Maybe emulation of Dreamcast & ps2 but since my 4 year old phone can do that idk
Im ok with my Steamdeck design But for the successor pls ditch that anemic 40whr and go for 67whr like aokzoe pls Valve Imagine i can game for 12hours a day with capped 5w tdp
People fighting over these handhelds is so dumb. I want more handhelds in this space. There are gaming laptops out to wazoo! If a different laptop comes out are you gonna get butthurt over that too. Lol.
I almost always play on my steam deck when it is plugged into a charger or battery pack. I am switching to Asus so that I can actually play all of my games. SteamOS ain't cutting it for me.
The sub 10W performance is still lacking behind the Steam Deck, quiet the opposite of "unreliable". And tbh, even if the Z1E matched Van Gogh at sub 10W TDP, it still would be a crazy feat when you compare specs. And nothing is 100% power gated, there's always a tiny amount of loss. Which doesn't matter at normal TDP levels, but at ultra low-power, it's has a impact.
For me the software also makes the SteamDeck better, Windows can’t suspend games properly for instance, it drains the battery. That’s one reason Valve went with Linux, because they wanted to squeeze as much performance out as they could for as little power as possible.
I think Valve were genius in creating a true custom APU. I also love the analysis by the Phawx. A mother difference I have noted is the impact of using a quad channel memory setup on the Steam Deck and the GDP Win Max 2+ compared to the dual channel memory setup on the ROG Ally. I can't wait for the next Custom APU from Valve for Steam Deck 2. I think it will be 4C/T Zen 4 and 12CU RDNA3 Lpddr 5-6400 quad channel targeting 1080p 60fps with 30% better better life with the same battery capacity. I love how Valve is managing expectations and not over promising.
@@Futura2500 doesn't take away the genius. All those companies have a long history of making gaming Consoles yet none of them have a Handheld Console to rival the Steam Deck. Valve saw a potential market no one was tapping into. I admire Valve for their contribution to Gaming on Linux as well. Can you imagine moving forward if game developers include Linux as platform they are targeting for each game, the impact that would have. Even if they don't, what Valve have achieved with their Proton layer is short of witchcraft. I love their holistic approach with both active software and hardware development that truly gets what Handheld Gaming in this age is all about. When it comes to AAA gaming on Handhelds and on Linux nobody even comes close to Valve.
Valve already said that they aren't planning on changing the steam decks hardware for a long time. That's a smart move on their side, cause keeping hardware the same will allow for game developers to optimize for steam decks hardware
The Ally was misquoted as dual channel. It's quad channel just like the Deck, 800 MHz per chip versus the deck's 687.5. The Math: the deck's 5500MTS is 4 channel, 1375 MT/s per channel, which is 687.5 MHz for DDR [*Dual* Data Rate] Asus isn't running similar chips at 1600 MHz. The teardowns show 4 chips just like the deck and they would need to be doing 1600MHz [3200 MT/s] to be dual channel by the same math to hit 6400 MT/s.
This is an awesome video. While I suspected the difference was due to the steam deck having a more specialised chip, it was interesting to hear the intricacies and design decisions that likely went into the final build of the APU
The ally is having software / driver issues. At 15 watt the ally outperforms the steam deck. Steam deck is only good at low tdp. Plus the ally screen is vrr capable which is a game changer. Allows for a much smoother experience.
Great video and technical analysis. It puts a lot of fanboy comments in the bin by laying down the facts rather than "trust me bro, the deck sucks, ally is the way to go". I have seen a lot of arguments like that and I just shake my head while cringing.
