One of the most original channels on YT. No one has video formats quite like yours… i really love how you branch out from otto-cycle automotive performance to other interests like large stationary engines, heavy duty equipment, and diesels! Thanks man!
Thank you very much! The comparison compilations were often a subject of copying and I kinda ran out of ideas. Somehow I set up here with topics like these and I love making them very much. Ton of interesting information, cool old footages and simply a beautiful story to be created.
The "cam wear" was actually the rockers being soft and/or poor oiling of the heads. This was corrected in later engines. But the far more severe problem was that the cylinder sleeves would eventually start to move = mixing of coolant and oil. And I can peronally testify it was hungry for fuel, while not very fast. The 24 valve models were quite a bit better than the 12 valves.
I should add that my bad experiences with PRV was a 1975 Volvo 264. But I had a 1990 Peugeot 605SR 3.0 (12 valves) that never missed a beat. So later PRV engines were okay, but had a bad reputation that was hard to wash off. Regardless it was a bad fuel to performance ratio. My dad had a 2000 Citroën XM exelence with a 24 valve 3.0 PRV. It was fast for its time!!! It never missed a beat either.
@@daw7563 How it is possible? As of 1997 all V6 XMs had ES9J4 engine. My dad still has a 1996 XM with 12 valve variant of PRV. Cannot say it's slow nor fuel hungry. Easily beats my ES9J4 in economy. His is manual while mine is auto tho.
The PRV V6 was unrefined and needed better oiling. To me, if it had a better oiling system from the beginning plus reliability being the number one endeavor it would have been received better. It should have had split crank pins from jump.
@@jfv65 merci de rétablir la vérité , c'est pas un super V6 non plus mais bon en version course 3.0 biturbo il sortait quand même 600 chevaux et fiable.
I am a retired Volvo master tech who won the trip to Sweden in 1980 so I am very familiar with this engine. This thing was a highly developed bad idea right from the start. The first B27 was nothing more than two 3cyl engines sharing a crankshaft, the right and left bank had different cam and ignition timing. The B28 was a little better, it had hydraulic cam followers if I recall but still an uneven firing order. The B 280 was the best because it had offset crank journals which then had the same firing order as a 60deg v/6. That one also had modern electronic ignition and fuel injection.They all had an aluminum block with wet sleeves and all it took was one overheat and the block distorted and it was coolant in the crankcase city. Flimsy paper shims were used to set sleeve highth and was critical to get the proper crush between the sleeve and the head. We finally stopped trying to rebuild or do any major block repairs and just used exchange engines.
I am a bit older... and from Europe.... In the early 90s i got the chance to drive a DeLorean here in germanay. It was complete stock, cause if you drive an american car here, you don't need to modify it. You are the King.... So i drove it on the Autobahn and full throttle. GPS speedometer wasn't available. But i got catched by the Police, cause i was driving 195 kph. (121mph). So i don't understand, why the company installed a 85 mph gauge I guess, IF they had installed a 125 mph gauge, the americans would think different to the DMC with its V6. It had 130 hp and a weight of 1290 kg (Sorry i am german, and i use the mighty metric). So the weight ratio is 1:10. 1 Horse has to move 10 kg. A 1984 Mercedes W124 with 2.3 inline 4 engine had 136 hp and a weight of 1275 Kg. So the weight ratio is nearly 1:10. A 1991 Honda Civic had 90 horses and a weight of 850 Kg. So the weight ratio is nearly 1:10. I really have to say, i drove all these cars in my past. And many more... But these had other weight ratios. I simply want to say, these "light" cars made a lot of fun to drive arround. The DMC was a one in a livetime moment... And i never will forget it. It had a good handling for its time and that is more important to me than reduce the car to its horses. Yeah i know, there are so many videos on YT, where some idiots place LS2 engines in the back of a DeLorean. But a V8 in the back ruins the handling. It will become heavy in the back. Like a Porsche. IF you accelerate an old Porsche, it will not react correctly on input at the steeringwheel. The front loose to much grip in this situation. I hope you understand what i am talking about. There is more than driving a car on a drag strip. Cornering a lightweight car thru corners makes a lot of fun and you don't need 600 horses to be a quarter of a second faster than the others. Don't get me wrong. American cars are great looking. BUT most of them only can drive straight. Maybe this is good if you are living in Nevada, but here in europe we have corners. Many of them. And a lot of roundabouts. And that is the reason why europeans like japanese cars. Which often have I4, I6, V6 and Flat 4 or Flat 6. V8 is rare. Yeah i know, Mercedes, BMW and Audi build V8 for their cars, but most of us don't want V8 engines. They are heavy, thursty, and expensive in repairs. That are the reasons, why DMC used this kind of Engine in the DeLorean.
I had a '95 Renault Safrane with the 3.0 PRV for 8 years. I sold it with 369.000 km on its back because of rusting issues, the engine was still perfectly fine. So I have nothing to complain on this engine.
oh, that Alpine, poster car. centered engine for four folks Citröen Xm perfect suspended Venturi, Gorgeous, made a f4o looks umproportionate That Alpha, the best looking sedan ever Mulsanne 400km/h all time record This engine made a steel car go to the future and back to tell
I had a 1981 Volvo with this engine, it was great I loved it. I also drove a Citroen XM with the 24v engine, to this day I have never driven a more comfortable and well handling car.
Well, when it comes to the DeLorean, they were very much limited by the emission laws of the time in the US...and by time and money. :D So they took whatever engine they could get and sent the cars out. A TwinTurbo was in its testing phase on the road but didn't make it in time. Probably would have made the car competitive with the 911s and 308s of the day.
The handle like shit, the wheels and tires are tiny, and it is a hodge podge of other manufactures stuff, rushed out the door. It would not have stood a chance against machines that were constantly being refined as both mass production, and popular racing platforms. The fiberglass tub gives them a very unsettled feel, even when not pushed hard.
@@jamesgeorge4874it doesn't handle bad it's designed by lotus. What it needed was better springs and wider better gripping tires and it will handle amazing. Then with a twin turbo yes it would be up there with those cars.
@@LisaAnn777 You obviously have not driven one. 1) the chassis flexes like crazy, 2) 14 inch front wheels with tiny brakes (they are guttless turds that can't get out of their own way, no need for them) 3) they squeak, rattle, clunk, because the "chassis" is reinforced _barely_ fiberglass. They are a hodge podge of junk thrown together by a guy who tried to get the whole company off the ground with a suitcase full of cocaine, don't forget that Corvettes of the era were barely 200 hp, and would *DESTROY* a Delorean at the time. Adding power to such a shit car only made it's shortcomings 100 times _more_ obvious. The Fiero GT crushed it in every way. Delorean's suck ass, full stop, live your fantasy, it underscores _how little you know about reality_ P.S. I've worked on, and driven half a dozen or so. Every fucking wire is white, try doing some electrical repair.
Thanks for being honest (and well informed as usual of this channel...) about this engine. It's a pretty impressive piece of engineering for its time and doesn't deserve the bad reputation it still have today.
Thanks for having spot-lighted an underrated engine. It would be nice to hear the original V8 voice.. ..and to see the 605, my very first car (2.0L, dead in my very first crash) make a tear came out.. :)
Informative video, thanks for posting. You assembled quite an array of vintage film footage for this, and your hard work is apparent and appreciated. I like your channel very much.
3:35 The choice to use wet liners was probably the worst part of the engine. These were prone to coolant leakage and required specialist knowledge to repair properly. The other noted issues were less of an issue.
I had one in my first car which was a Volvo. It was a troublesome unit, with repeated head gasket issues and tappet issues. It was an absolute pig of an engine. The car had full main dealer service history and had been looked after too. Great video and explanation.
I like when people say 'it's underpowered', when you could have a Safrane with 270hp in the 90s... and also a 400hp Venturi. And that's only the ones you can drive on the road legally, suffice to say you won't reach 400kph at the Mulsanne straight with a slug. Interestingly, the collaboration between the frenemies Renault and Peugeot continued on the V6 that replaced the PRV, with the ESL, an engine known to sound beautiful, and being found in the back of the Clio V6
One of the best channels on YT and still under 500k subs, I find your videos extremely fascinating because it unravels the mistery of the automotive history, a dream of the past, a passion. When you look at nowadays cars and see only EVs and hybrids they may look fun, but it will never be the same as the roaring of a nice engine when you fully send it, even if they add fake sounds, nah not the same. I hope the automotive industry won't completely remove the combustion engines for the electrical ones in the near future. It would absolutely kill the fun of driving as we know it! It is just strange, gives me the need of constantly checking the car due to the lack of sound and lose the sense of speed due to the instant torque without any sound or vibrations.
A Volvo mechanic I knew replaced the engine in a 264GLE 4 times under warranty before advising the owner to just get rid of the car. Once the block was actually just weeping coolant out of the wall. We had one as a family car for a bit and the garage hated it. So much stuff was hard to access.
My boss owns a 91 Citroen XM prestige one of only a handful XMs left in the United States and honestly the PRV in it is fine, since it is a older engine I have done a complete overhaul on all gaskets so it's stopped leaking but all in all it's been a great reliable V6 engine in a really out of place survivor of French car.
Motorazo!!! El 2.664 con 142hp hacía al Renault 30 muy ágil y en ruta eran excelentes, rápidos y muy seguros con discos en las 4 y suspensión independiente trasera, un lujo!
Nice summary @VisioRacer , some additional info , the PRV was also used in Military's Equipment ERC 90 Sagaie 2 by French Army as armord Car ( 411 built) , prototype on 1983 Robin Aircraft R3150, base for 1977-1986 Renault Sports 90degrees V6 Renault-Gordini F1 1.5 liter 510-1200 bhp race car. Couple of 1977 Volvo 363CS rally engines with Turboo kit , the inception 240 Gruppa A Volvo ( Garratt T3 kit with 240-260 hp range) . Even a French dude Guedon used it on a bike . 970315 PRV engine produced
THANK YOU for making a video explaining more of the history of the PRV. Living in the USA, it’s very hard to find information on the engine and trying to get work done. BUT.. I firmly believe that these engines were built to last and be reliable. For that, I believe there’s a lot of potential for them to be better than any modern engine swap. Im currently trying to pull my PRV from my DeLorean, as well as the Renault 4141 transmission. Perhaps maybe adding some better day-to-day driving upgrades. Any websites or links to documents on the PRV to provide some more research? Maybe some sources from Renault I can find here in the United States? 😅
I pulled the B280 apart in my 300,000 km 780 and it was MINT. Rings still within spec, bearings perfect, no ring ridge at all. Like many, it had started leaking coolant into the oil but once the cylinders were lapped to the block and shimmed correctly, it went back together with all of it's original "wear" items. I took many pictures of parts next to their corresponding B23 & B230 pieces and the B280 made them look spindly. Loved seeing the Fire Breathing Monster in action, too. Go JL!
@@nhytg376tgyuu765gjmg Hi Olof - yeah true enough, but there WERE a few manual transmissions in 262Cs. I have a flywheel and bellhousing to put an M45/46/47 behind one, but no car for that any longer.
Makes sense if the Wart was a triple! 3,6,12........they all share a certain voicing, regardless of crank timing/firing order. They share that "growl".
The "dead headed" fuel injection and the tight engine compartment conspired to create nasty vapor lock. A constant flow "return-to-tank" scheme has fixed this issue on some aircraft engines, and would fix it on the PRV. Also, the thing was sloooooow. My friend still has his.
Love this video, tho i find it very incomplete, i wanted to do a video on the PRV, you missed french supertouring, the fact that this engine was in a plane prototype, many tanks and army vehicles, the 905's V10 was also based on the PRV, still a good job man
As a French fan of your channel, and huge french engineering nerd, thank you very much! :O I was amazed during the whole video, thinking to myself "is he gonna talk about this? and this? in only 13mn?" And you went on, and you talked about absolutely everything interesting about this engine (Mention spéciale for the talk about the SM's 90° V6, icing on the cake! ) And yeah, seeing this awesome engine with huge potential being swapped for LSs in Deloreans really hurts... 😢 GIVE THESE BAD BOYS THE TUNE THEY DESERVE :P
je viens juste de voir la vidéo💀 1 an après, mais c'est vrai que c'est un moteur sous côté, j'avais vu un préparateur qui justement travaillais sur base A310 et il sortait 440cv sur une prépa en atmo ! Et en plus le moteur était au Mans et dans les venturi 400GT de course avec une puissance clairement pas dégeu.
You omit to say that the only reason Alfa Romeo could use it in the 155 V6 Ti was because the parent company of Alfa Romeo at the time was Alfa-Lancia and the PRV V6 had been used in the Lancia Thema so hence could legally be used in the Alfa race car
@@benzinapaul7416 Opel did the same thing in DTM using an Isuzu-derived V6 engine. Mercedes did not have a production V6 when they started using them in DTM in the early 90s, but that didn't stop them making one based off their V8 engine.
The DeLorean was considered underpowered because, when the PRV engine was Federalized with a catalytic converter, it made 130HP and cost $25k while its target competitor, the 1981 Corvette, was at 190HP for $17k. The DeLorean wasn't exactly compelling. And the improvements to the PRV came well after the DeLorean was discontinued. Was the PRV bad? At first, I'd say it was mediocre compared to its contemporaries: not the worst but there were better options though they were usually more expensive. But with the updates in the late 80s it became a decent choice, at least in Europe (they still lost quite a bit of power with the American emissions requirements). I'd argue it was a little late, though: the Japanese were making much better V6 engines starting around the mid-80s (the Taurus SHO's Yamaha V6, Nissan's VG family, Honda's C series, Toyota's VZ family).
The V6 PRV is very easy to improve:i did it on my Alpine A310 V6 rise from 150hp to 240hp without big modifications (Renault sport kit: 3 triple Solex carburetors+ sport camshafts+ oil cooler+ a thiker water cooler+ a "Devil" sport exhaust line, that's all...
Best variant of this engine was in Renault Safrane Biturbo (amazing car, one of the best in 90'), next is Citroen C6 (2005) 3.0 24V version, third Safrane 24V. Had this engine in 2 cars (Safrane) can do 258km/h (and can drive like this hours) but 0-100 only ~7.2sec, BMW E38 750i v12 was faster on straight, slower on corners.
3:35 The liner design was one of the problems the engine had, along with the others you mentioned. I was unfortunate enough to work on a few as an apprentice, due to internal coolant leaks.
@@leneanderthalien It's a flawed design that requires babying before use. Almost any other road going car engine can be driven away from a cold start. They have no real redeeming features.
Great history lesson and a throwback to some French limousines from my youth, but do me a favor and please check how to pronounce “DeLorean” in the correct manner 😄😉
90 degree V6s can be GREAT engines . the Buick 3.8 (aka, 3800) proves this you just need split pin crankshafts and a balance shaft . buick tried to market it as the "odd-fire" with a normal crank and no balance shaft..... and used SOFT! rubber motor mounts but people didnt like it . it sounded like it had a miss.... and vibrated like it had a miss . . . so buick added the split pins and balance shaft and it became the best engine buick ever made (infact.... the last "100% buick engineered" engine ever made)
12:16 = Actually they did even better ..;at 407 km/h . They claimed 405 because the new Peugeot 405 was launched at the same time... And also don't forget the 2.8L 24v bi-turbo version ended up in the great Oxia concept car, that was really capable of its claimed top speed at 348 km/h.... The PRV engine has a great history at least.....
In reality, the V6 PRV is not a "cut down V8": the project Peugeot/Renault/Volvo was sinze the debut for a V8 AND a V6, with a maximum common parts to reduce costs, but for the same econony reasons, there was at launch no electronic ignition, no injection, a tractor like exhaust pipe, no offset crankshaft for the V6 to made it run smooth (was the same problem on the V6 Maserati 1970-1975!!!) , this was made later (too late to erase the bad reputation), in 1985, first on the Renault 25 turbo 2,5L 185hp (later 2,8L 205hp). 90° V6 are common because they are more compact in hight to fit modern cars... The V6 PRV was sinze the début a very robust engine, but to avoid head gasket leaks , it need a gentle warming up before take the pedal down ,like many other aluminium blocks...The most powerfull serial V6 PRV was on the Venturi 400 (405hp, biturbo) and the most powerfull race engine was a 3liter biturbo 910hp who take the speed record on Le Mans 24h race with 405km/h!!!
I own a DeLorean and love the car... but 'Yes' the stock PRV engine power and engine management is def a huge shortfall. Modifying (stage 1 and 2) helps BUT with the kjet injection system how it actually performs varies by the day..
It would be a total disaster. Electricity is good only for starter motor, lights, heater fan, wipers, etc. When its powering car its a profanation for me. Mineral fuels could be easily replaced. Gasoline with alcohol, diesel with vegetable oil. I use them succesfully in my 2002 bmw e46 320ci (isopropanol) and 1999 citroen xm 2.5 td (vegetable oil). I m using only small addition of original fuel like 10%
I walked away from a 1980 Alpine A310 simply because its PRV was so lazy and gutless. Easily my biggest automotive letdown. I shudder to think what an emissions-strangled Delorean PRV would be like.
I know powerful V6 engines have been produced, but they will always feel like a half wit step to a proper V8. Don't like the layout, don't like the sound, don't like the oddball firing. For some reason the flat-6 or straight-6 don't bother me. It's the V6 I just don't care for.
Ici en France, la dernière seule Alpine A610 participant au 24 heures du Mans avec un PRV développait 900 cv. c'était un passionné d'Alpine dont j'ai oublié le nom, (honte à moi😢)
This engine was underpowered to be in Time Machine. They used V8 from Porsche 928 - even movie makers knowns how this car should sounds and drives. Burnout from scene before very first time travel in first part? with the prv engine will more smoke comes from clutch than this huge tires i guess :D
bullshit: it's very easy to improve the power from the V6 PRV: i go from 150hp to 240hp in my Alpine A 310 V6 with limited modifications (naturaly aspired): was 2 improving steeps from Renault Sport: 170hp only the carburetors + exhaust replacement ( 2x triple Solex carbs+ Devil exhaust), 240hp with add of sport camshafts and cooling improvements...
Well the it had early power and torque instead of high peak hp and old high rpm turbos werent great, these are engines before variable valve times so camtiming is targeted bretty low rpms and it affects peak power number, same engine can do alot more peak hp in paper whit bigger cam and lift but it would not make great engine for daily use.
@@beezlebub3955 I have old -82 2.5 R4 8v that has 163hp and more modern -00 2.2 R6 24v that has 170ish hp cars, on paper specs the power difference doesnt look like much but if you look at dyno papers youll see variable valve, variable intake runnes and other stuff working and how they are able to produce a lot more early and late power along rpm range and old 8v whit out variable valve controll to have massive power drop on high rpm closer to limiter. Peak hp number dont tell full story about engine performance, it can be bit miss leading most times like when comparing engines whit 50years age differences 😅
@@winha1435 that’s a very good point, changes in where the curve is and how it’s shaped change the feel of an engine more than I know. I swapped a 2.7ish rear end for a limited slip 3.55 in one of my trucks a while back, it made that thing tow so much better than it did. Semi off topic, but meh 🤷🏼♂️
Fuel economy and V6 configuration can't be used in the same sentence, haha. I had a 3.5 V6 Isuzu in my Jackaroo/Trooper. Beautiful engine, smooth, sweet, ultra reliable, but sure liked to drink fuel, especially if you used the revs. Hard to avoid revving it, it sounded so sweet above 3500rpm.
I’ve had quite a few V6’s. Most are shocking fuel drinkers. Only exception was the 3 litre in the Mitsubishi Challenger (1998) but they used the high performance V6 with 4 valves a cylinder and this engine is used in a lot of Japan performance cars.
The US had several V6 vehicles that got pretty good mileage, sure they made 4 cylinder power but they had good torque comparable performance and great mpg in most applications. Unless it was paired to a 3 speed non OD trans, something that was far to common enev well into the 90s.
@@DrewLSsix You claim this but don't name them. The only V6s I know of that make good mileage are Euro V6 diesels. Petrol/gasoline V6s drink like sailors on leave :)
90° V6s sound like a V8 with two pistons missing. Which is what it is. Jaguar XJ220 and Metro 6R4 are an engine like PRV. Another odd sounding engine, GM 54° V6 (eg., Y30SE) V6 sound but not quite. Lol
Is it just me or does anybody else think that alpinas rear engine sports car looks pretty much like a Nissan 300ZX with the engine mounted in the back?
I would love to see you do the absolute shitshow that was the Triumph V8. How it came about, and why on earth anyone at BMC thought it was a good idea when they could literally pick a Buick V8 off the shelf that afternoon, instead of bothering to design such a compromised engine in the first place, which they didn’t even have the money to do anyway. BMC were already using them in range rovers, they had these motors right there ready to go, straight away, and as far as design budget goes, these engines were literally free. Buy engine, buy gearbox, make bellhousing adapter (or appropriate box case). Simple! Why did they not do this?!
Did you own one? I did. An extreme example of defrauding the motoring public. The car is devoisdof: Design, materials and workmanship........ie Junk Glad to have parted with mine at 6800 Miles.
No problem. Just stick a Mister Fusion interociter in the engine, fill it with mixed garbage and away you goooooo.............. see you next century, baby!!!!?,
No its fair it was the car of the future without a future because everybody could see it was horribly outdated under the hood and all that shiny plating
Λεβεντιά μου τι συγκρίνεις τώρα;;; Αν και JDM fan, σέβομαι απόλυτα τον PRV... Εξάλλου, τους διαχωρίζει μια δεκαετία+... Και σκέψου ότι οι Ευρωπαίοι δεν χρησιμοποιούσαν ούτε μεταβλητούς αυλούς, ούτε λοιπά τερτίπια... Αύξαναν τον κυβισμό, άλλαζαν βύθισμα και διάρκεια στους εκκεντροφόρους και μόνταραν την τροφοδοσία, είτε στα καρμπιρατέρ, είτε στον ψεκασμό, ενίοτε και στο/στα turbo. Έπασχε από κάποιες παιδικές ασθένειες, οι οποίες όμως με την πάροδο του χρόνου ξεπεράστηκαν...
Prv was an old design, the na variant weren't sporty, emission laws were harsh, also the specific variant of the 4ag you mention came a little later and benefited from newer technologies
From an American perspective, It might be he worst V6 ever made, maybe even worst the the Chrysler 2.7, I had the displeasure to have one in a 10 year old volvo....many years ago.
i have 3 alpine a310 prv v6 ,nobody knew how to work on them ,took me 5 years with my dad to find timing correct,(cuz flywheel neds to be in 21.5th teeth to start the process)also carb sucks ass
