"In your nightmares you give water to the dead and it brings joy to your heart" This part is packed full of meaning. It is a nightmare because it is a waste of precious life giving water. It brings joy to their hearts because being generous with water is something that the fremen cannot do but which they all secretly want so very much to do if they could only afford it. The fremen take water from the dead, not give it to them. To have such abundant water as to be able to give water to the dead would be like answering an ancient prayer. What makes it worth saying to the fremen in this scene is that it speaks to that secret guilt and shameful desire that all fremen throughout time want to be generous with water, but they cannot. He is speaking to the communal soul of the fremen. I know you, I am you! This is our pain!
Thanks for breaking that down, I feel like I understand it much better now. It makes me think Paul also kinda pulled a fast one with that line, so they focus on the part about "bringing joy to their heart," and overlook the fact that it's happening in a nightmare. For Paul, this holy war is a nightmare coming to life as well. Imagine a Fremen soldier in Paul's empire. Fighting in a horrific holy war, maybe lightyears away from their home planet, losing loved ones all around them... but feeling some small measure of joy in their heart, because at least they are able to give some water for the dead now. I think that is the real nightmare. GOD I cant wait for the next movie. Not too excited about the HBO show because it's a prequel... but I guess it will have to do for now.
More specifically, giving water to the dead means mourning/crying for dead. In the movie, Stilgar kind of mentions this when walking Jessica around the sietch for the first time when she sees the communal basin by saying "Never give your water away, not even for the dead." In the book I believe Paul wept at Jamis's funeral and that was referred to as "giving water to the dead." It's definitely one of the best lines in the movie imo. Saying "You weep for the dead in your nightmares and it brings joy to your heart" is such good writing on so many different levels.
Dune plot is awful, cheesy, a hero gets magic powers cuz of his bloodline. And poor ignorant people already being persecuted switch their war leader for him and he wins. And then filled with religious ectasy they go to kill half the universe. The emperor in fact was a realist and hero, and Paul net is no better.. Us westerners miss the big point, that in slums of Africa and Native American rez (where Herbert lived by and made lifelong friends) and middle of Asia probably are starving people with such myths, and with genius leader they can become new overlords. Us rich and safe westerners have no idea of message of this movie, it seems pretty and exciting and heroic so we clap.... Herbert knew this, but felt hey most Americans will get glimmer of the message and also like the huge world building... But this movie and plot are deeply not understood by most, so to call this a great movie is like a monkey clapping at a Shakespeare play w sword fight when most of the message is going over head... Fremen are like gypsies in Europe or untouchables in India or Jews in Czarist Russia, truly near hopeless for centuries and often losing and humiliated, HUMILIATED, and clueless about science and business and math and just scraping by, and movie skips over that and just makes them ignorant savages who are wise and fair. In the book they are being brutal, sexist, orgy lovers, drug users, ruled by rabbis, and often losing, they are hillbillies with no good traits but toughness.
When paul drank the water he is no longer the Paul that chani fell for, he's a completely different person literally look at how he is prior to drinking how he hated the visions when he described it to chani, until he drank the water and now sees clearly of what needs to happen like a man on a mission Lazer focused.
I think that part is best seen and appreciated in the theater because of the sound. In particular, he is using the Voice in his speech and the sound system in the theater brought out this quality to his voice which appeared to give it more power than that of a normal human. I've watched that same scene at home and, although it's still powerful, it's not quite the same. In the theater, it's terrifying. I agree that it's a great cinema moment although I also loved the Harkonnen home world scenes.
This scene in theatres was almost hypnotic. It felt like being pulled in a current and if I had ever experienced anything like this in real life I’d have been terrified. Also the score shifts as Paul walks in and the Benêt Gesserit theme is played in association with him for the first time. Like plans within plans this scene is so beautifully layered and composed. Youth should study this in school.
This is my favorite scene in the movie. Its absolutely heartbreaking that you have the Fremen witnessing this momentous occasion where they feel so hopeful and yet all the audience can feel is pure dread of what is to come. Chilling
@@MarcoTulio-mi1ovthe Fremen got all they wished for: a charismatic leader, the best warrior in the imperium, the one who teaches them the weirding way. How is that heartbreaking? What would have been more heartbreaking is handing over the universe to the Bene Gesserit or to Feyd Rautha.
my analysis of the scene Paul going to south: >is black (sand) and white (sky), Paul is a Harkonnen even in the soundtrack like he say later >the soundtrack makes a ROAR in the sound like the sandworm in the shot, but could be PAUL genetic memories (all the personalities he awake) >the use of drums means a war march or a war song, but also (for me) means like a ticking clock. Now Paul is leading to war by controlling the time/futures. >again the OST is the song of Dune right, the "main theme" you can say but the use of guitar and new elements means this is not Dune theme as Ancient history BUT Paul changing the history and the future (like putting thouse new instruments) >Paul walking to the Fremen group is the Bene Gesserit quote about "Like sifting sand through a screen, we sift people" in this case Paul is sifting between this people like a grain of sand in the dessert (the people, the dessert power) For last this is amazing, Jessica (in the scene talking with his daughter about going south) SAW A FRAME OF PAUL walking towards the south the exactly frame of him walking without the sandworm behind you can search that. AND NOW IN THE END OF THE SCENE JESSICA IS WATCHING P.O.V. Paul walking to her. Just 10/10 i hope you read this broooooooooo
I read this one lol, interesting take on the different elements of the scene; its always so interesting to me how different people see things differently.
Totally agree with your choice. I can watch that scene on loop. Absolutely masterful filmmaking by Villeneuve, with Chalamet, Brolin, and especially Bardem hopefully earning some nominations.
As far as performances go, everyone gives credit to Timothy and Bardem, but i think the one who really needs to be mentioned is Rebecca Ferguson, she was absolutely amazing in both films. As for the turning point for Paul, it is easily when he takes the water of life. I don't think the realization that he was related to the Baron or was partly Harkonen had much effect on him, it was more about him accessing so many memories as well as all potential futures, essentially giving him thousands of years of experience/wisdom along with clairvoyance that changed his personality and behavior. We see this change in him immediately when he gives his big speech and starts telling the fremem about their own thoughts and dreams, and he is confident in what he needs to do now, because there is no other way than the golden path. Appreciate the video, but i highly recommend the books or watching "quin's ideas" on youtube for more understanding of the story at large. This is only the beginning really.
❤❤❤ once you read the book nothing is ever the same. Like how his sister is the one who kills their grandfather the Baron. His sister even got captured on purpose so she would be able to kill her grandfather the Baron 😂😂😂
I totally agree. Every scene in Dune 2 is the best scene... but this one is the best. Gave me chills. Before it happened, I was sitting in the theater wondering how the movie was going to handle it, what Paul was going to say, etc. Then when it was over, I felt like they perfectly walked the tightrope. Just an incredible scene, and incredible performance from Chalamet. The whole movie is just SO good. I'm dying for Part 3. Shit is going to be insane. Hopefully the HBO show isn't bad, but it's hard to be excited about a prequel that's set in a completely different era with completely different characters. We'll see.
Not really. The turning point is Paul telling his mother there is a very narrow path where humanity survives. He doesn't believe he is the hand of god. He is seeing the only possible path where humanity survive.
Correct. Paul fails and takes the easy path breadcrumbed by his prescient abilities. The 'golden path' where he picks the best option in every scenario to ensure the best path for humanity's survival no matter the cost.
Correction Paul is about self preservation. He doesn't care about humanity. His rise equals billions dead. If he cared for humanity he would sacrifice himself as Jesus did.
@@andrewalton5042He’s not Jesus. Sacrificing himself means humanity goes extinct. All paths lead to horror. Billions will die no matter what. There’s only a narrow path where humanity survives, and Paul is only the beginning of that path. Read the books. They’re good. 😊
@@andrewalton5042 Guessing you didn't read the books. I won't comment major spoilers but basically he's sacrificing billions to save trillions and his prescient abilities box him into making decisions within a very narrow margin in order to avoid futures that are even worse than the one he creates.
Correction. Jessica cares deeply about Paul. She wants two things desperately: for Paul to live and revenge for Leto. For both things, she needs Paul’s speech to succeed.
Few things (1) Frank Herbert wasn't writing about the danger of following a “White" Messiah, he was writing about the Dangers of following a Messiah! They come in all colors if you believe otherwise you're a fool. (2) Gurney doesn't turn into a Religious follower the Freman do, Gurney was Paul's mentor his teacher. His entire life he has tried to mold him into a Leader that could destroy the Harkonnen. This scene was the fulfillment of Gurney's life work. Here he sees Paul no longer as a pupil but as The Duke of the Atreides. Gurney did that he saw all his hard work and sacrifice pay off then and there.
Nice video. One minor correction. The person fighting with Rabban on the entry door to the flying vehicle is not Paul. That was. an unidentified female Fremen fighter.
I think you misunderstood Jessica’s intentions. Yes she wants him to go down that road, but she has no real idea of the future that will unfold, because she isn’t prescient. And she’s telling him slow down because she wants him to survive it not because she doesn’t care if he dies Great video otherwise!
I thought they might’ve had a speech game plan and he just skipped a few incremental steps. “Slow down”. He wins the war lords through intimidation and tenderness. Someone you could die for. The southern theocrats needed a miracle and Paul told their Fremen pope what his dreams were. They all wanted to believe and were still incited. Just a powerful scene. Another person he had to convince was Gurney. That’s why he claimed his Atreides identity. Not just to be the voice from the outer world, but to show Gurney he is still his lord. Paul didn’t forget his father or his house. Gurney will follow Paul into his jihad with the family nukes. Everything hinged on that scene.
From how I saw Jessica's performance, she gets so focused on the path she is guiding Paul on, she disregards his safety. But I haven't read the book, so my interpretation could be off.
@@AidanDaDoolphin well, for paul to walk the path she guided him on, he needs to be alive. so when she tells him to slow down, it's because she thinks he is rushing things and will die/fail
@@ukuviispert9599 Yeah I never had the idea that she didn’t care about his well being. If anything it was the opposite… she wanted him to fulfill his destiny.
@@AidanDaDoolphin maybe read the book then because you slander her motives. The book is like 2/3rd peoples thoughts in their heads , the film is cinematically beautiful but it leaves out most of the book because as i said so much of it is what they think.
in the book Gurney wants revenge but Paul is the instigator, Gurney cautions paul on the use of atomics and paul just tells him "hey were actually just hitting the mountains not the people, the great houses will take that fine point" Paul already got his atomics before reuniting with gurney and had been stockpiling veichles and weapons for whenever the final stand dawned upon them. The movie keeps the core of who paul really is but gives him a little less agency in his actions, however once he drinks the water of life inboth book and movie he comes out as an almost different man and is hell bent on starting the jihad.
I'm still making my way through the book, but thanks for the correction. It's interesting how they changed bits of the plot for the screen but kept the overlying message.
@@AidanDaDoolphin I just finished it last night 😂, Paul is a menace towards the ending its actually kinda mad how aggressive and almost cruel he becomes towards the end to the point where I sm shocked people actually thought this was a hero's story on release theres stuff in the last third that are outright monstrous that come from Paul's words, actions and thoughts. Jessica and gurney while serving paul actually are not exactly on the same page as him at all after the water of life in their thoughts they question his actions
I’m n both he doesn’t want to start the jihad, it’s just that once he takes the Water of Life he gets a more full vision of it and know a for sure it can’t be avoided.
this movie genuinely blew me away. i watched it in my home on hbo max. i immediately watched it again. it felt so impactful compared to recent works of the same genre
Knew it would be this scene… saw the first showing at IMAX and this scene blew me away I went and watched it again straight after. Should be an Oscar contender…
He was decided to die in the north and not become the Lisan Al Gaib. He changed his decision when he had the vision of Chani being obliterated by a nuclear bomb. He decided then to gain control, to prevent that possible future. It was not power or desire for revenge that made his change his mind.
Paul’s turning point was in the tent when his dad died and he had the vision after that u notice the Chage slowly starting and becomes more Known afte Jamis.
His turning point is when the Harkonens genocide the northern freman dwellings , his prescience has shown him he will cause the death of billions his entire life , but now he feels he has caused the deaths of millions anyhow because of his inaction. This is the point he stops second guessing himself and embraces what he knows he can become.
I think there is one thing that should be mentioned in the transition. Paul wears a dun-colored robe/hood. That changes to black. In the book, the color for the Harkonens is orange but in this film, their black sun is portrayed as causing the eye to only see black and white. In other words, the color that represents the Harkonens is black. This is the activation of Paul’s ancestry and the use (or misuse) of the implanted mythologies of the Fremen religions. It is explained that, in the South, the Fremen are more fundamentalist in the film. There is no such a dichotomy of belief in Herbert’s novel. Here, the director is using color as a symbol. He uses this a lot in this film. In places, it is subtle, in others it is quite bold.
I dont think you have understood the idea of the story. Paul’s turning point was much earlier than you might think. Paul first mentioned his plan to avenge his father and take the throne after escaping from arrakeen and getting refuge with liet kynes… He gives in to his desire to rule as his father and bloodline has… He always knew his jihad ( they changed the word to holy war in the movies) would come if he chose this path and sure enough he went down this path and found his jihad… Paul and his mother manipulated everyone into believing him. Paul is not a messiah, he is not the voice from the outer world and he is not the mahdi. Him, his mother and his sister (not in the movie) created this problem. Had he not tried to lead and take his revenge none of this would have happened. He most definitely could have stopped this jihad by simply letting go of his perceived right to rule and avenge his father. I will not spoil the next books but his story will become clear in the next movie.
this is a pretty good analysis, but Paul definitely could not have stopped the jihad if he tried to. he says this himself. later, scytale says the same thing.
I don't agree at 5:32 that Gurney turns into a religious fanatic. I interpreted that scene as him seeing his young apprentice following his father's footsteps and becoming a man. The ring is a symbol of everything they lost, all of their friends and family.
I agree, you see him indifferent when he gives his messiah speech and just going with the plan, Paul being the Duke of house attredies means nothing to the fremen and gurney is the only one who reacts. I saw it as a specific demonstration to gurney
I disagree that Gurney becomes a religious follower at this time. He feels pride in seeing the young pup become the Duke. Paul is now shaping his own future, taking control, leading, instead of hiding from the responsibility. The Fremen are awestruck at their prophecy becoming reality in front of them, but Gurney is not.
You’re confusing the book with the movie. The second movie is only about six months at most time wise. The book is the one that has a big leap in time. Hence why Alia isn’t in this movie except for a vision sequence.
All this philosophical discussion (including Herbert himself) of Paul’s character about how moral he is, how to beware of charming leaders blah blah blah is that Paul actually has super powers.
Say what u want but the best scene was when he stormed in and accepted who he needed to be to lead them to green paradise. That aerial shot with him walking in and the music when I saw this in imax was very few times when your shocked in cinema kinda like the og starwars seeing the snow walkers or Luke I am your father.
There is only one "that scene" in Dune 2. I came out of the theater thinking that it might be the best scene in cinematic history. Zimmer's score doesn't hurt when lending gravitas to it either. This is where Paul turns Haarkonen and the hero's journey takes a left turn into the cautionary tale that Frank Herbert always intended Dune to be.
great video!!!!!! in the movie, he doesn't spend 2 years among the fremen though - I believe it's supposed to be a quite a few months, otherwise alia would be born. different in the book thought, he does spend 2 years with them.
In ref to your example of "when Rabban tries to fight him" @ the 50 sec mark: that's not Paul fighting Rabban on the thopter, its another fedaykin. They cry out something like "for Muad'dib" as they are falling. It sounds like a woman's voice. The main point to take away is how loyal and fearless his followers are.
In the books, isn't his decision to go through the agony related to the murder of his son? That was an emotional element I missed, even if it was less confusing to have so many Letos walking around....
So do you watch this scene as Paul's awakening to his Messiah role, leading the Fremen to paradise, or as his awakening to his role as the next Emperor, master of genocide?
I don’t think Gurney has any notable impact on Paul. At the point where they meet again, Paul‘s inner conflict has already grown to the maximum. What he sees, thanks to spice and eventually the water of life, transcends his personal relations, even his love for Chani. If it is the right decision to give in to his visions is another question though.
Villeneuve, not Villenuff. Worship, not war ship! Taken aback, not taken back. Respectable, not respectful. Javier, not Jarviar. Mise en scène, not miz on seen. Truly, not truthfully. (Sorry for the corrections, but I'm a teacher by profession. I can't turn it off when I'm watching RU-vid.)
I agree with you on that scene being the best in the movie, but I feel like u either misremembered or misunderstood/-interpreted some things. Probably already said by someone but Paul wasnt the one fighting Rabban Paul's character isnt about gaining confidence. He doesnt give into being the lisan al ghaib because he got confident. He became the lisan al ghaib out of necessity. The entire film his story was about him trying to not fulfill the prophecy and instead adapt to the fremen ways. He even said it himself in the scene where he kissed chani, while he was alone looking at the desert he talked to himself saying something along the lines of "I found my path, dad". Meaning that he chooses the fremen way. He doesnt only go against the prophecy because of being influenced by chani. He was trying to stay away from the prophecy even before meeting her. And even when he finds Gurney he doesnt start to tip towards fulfilling it because of it. Even when their home gets blown up he still refuses to go south, even tho everyone wants him to. The final things that actually convince him are him talking to "Jamis" and Chani. But even then he doesnt actually want to do it, but rather "will do what must be done" as he answered chani. And another detail that you imo got wrong is that u mentioned him finding out he is Harkonnen as being the thing that makes him become the lisan al ghaib, but in reality, he only found out he is harkonnen because he became the lisan al ghaib. The turning point for his character isnt the amazing meeting scene. It's when he wakes up after drinking the Water of Life. Because another thing that u imo missed is that after Paul drinks the water, his character is basically no more. Lisan al Ghaib is someone completely different than Paul Atreides. Someone's identity is made up of their memories. When Jessica drank the water, she inherited the memories of all the Reverend Mothers before her, and became a completely different person, yes she is still Jessica fundamentally, but everything she cares about and does is completely different, as she is not JUST Jessica, but the combination of all the other Mothers. The same with Paul, after he drinks the water of life, he is no longer Paul Atreides. He inherits both the past and future. Thats the turning point. Perhaps I misunderstood you, but u gave of the impression that u think he becomes the lisan al ghaib in the scene where he convinces everyone. But no, he became lisan al ghaib after drinking the water. And that scene was just him using all the knowledge he gained thanks to becoming it. Also, when Jessica says "slow down", it's more so because she thinks that Paul is being too arrogant and wont convince the fremen this way. And no, Gurney doesnt become a fanatic religious follower. It's pretty obvious that he's just glad that paul is using the opportunity he has to avenge his father. We get no reaction from gurney the entire time that Paul is doing his religious stuff. The only time we see gurney react is when Paul puts on the ring and takes back the surname Atreides, as that what gurney actually cares about. Not the religious stuff. The one who actully becomes a fanatic is Stilgar also, this is just a nitpick but when paul is walking in the beginning of the scene, there is no fog behind him, it's just the horizon. And just a general recommendation for editing. When u talk about the sound in a scene, turn off the background music of ur video. When u talked about the music of the speech scene, it was pretty hard to even understand the example that u used because the video's own background music was louder
I appreciate the critique. First thing I want to say is that I have not read the book yet, I am trying to get through it but as you may know it is incredibly dense. I may have been unclear in my use of language, but I understand that Paul became the Lisan Al-Gaib when he drinks the worm's poison, but at least how I saw the film is that he truly became the messiah when he made that speech, but that could just me being wrong. I'm aware that he didn't oppose the prophecy because of Chani, but she was definitely a contributing factor to Paul's opposition of it. He was terrified of the prophecy, even going back to the first film when he was with Jessica where he had visions of the future. When Paul found out he was Harkonen, it must have impacted him somehow, right? Like, even though he knows his father's philosophy and how he was raised an Atredies, I think that detail must have contributed to what happened. Finally, about Gurney; no, he does not become a religious follower like the fremen, but he does become a follower like he was a follower to Paul's father. My bad for my irresponsible choice of words. As I said, thank you for the extensive comment; this is my first ever video essay that I have written and editied so I am always looking for places I can improve.
@@AidanDaDoolphin Yeah, he took the role of messiah to the fremen during the speech scene, but he already was the "lisan al ghaib/kwisatz haderach" by that time. And yeah, finding out he is harkonnen definitely influenced him, he even said "we'll win by being harkonnens", but he had already decided to walk the path of the lisan al ghaib by that point. And wanna say, for a first video essay, it was really good overall. Unlike many bigger channels, you actually delve into how to the different choices in music for example connect to your interpretation of the story, instead of just making a summary of the things that happened like some do.
@alexfinn7989 the grandmother's eye injury was when she was 12. She did not die from the accident. She lived long enough to see her grandchildren with her remaining good eye. (She died nine moons ago = nine months ago.)
love the video’s insight, but calling Baron Harkonnen “Dune Hitler” is wild. he’s a morally repugnant character, sure, but canonically “Dune Hitler” is Paul himself.
You are slightly wrong. Frank Herbert did not warn for a ‘WHITE’ messiah but for a FALSE messiah. Why do you make it white? False messiahs come in all colours and shapes.
@@AidanDaDoolphin have done some research and can’t find a single interview of Frank Herbert warning for a ‘white’ messiah. The warning is for messianism and charismatic leaders. No race or skin colour specified. Pretty sure the other writer calling it a warning for white messiahs was race baiting which in all cases is not ok. Eitherway it doesnt matter for your video essay because I agree with the rest! That scene gives me goosebumps every damn time. One of the best scenes in cinematic history
Maybe with a better Paul. This kid didn't sell it to me, and both movies fell flat because of him. It was like watching Kevin Costner as Robin Hood in Prince of Thieves.
I really liked the first Dune, the second part, not so much. I was not wild about the actress that plays Chani (Zendaya). I could not warm up to this actress and the character she was playing. Everything else was good and even great in most scenes. In my opinion the Character Chani was a distraction and a antagonist.
Both movies were horrible lol, had to fast forward so much, so boring. I didn’t care for the original, but it was still better then both the new dune movies 💁
