@@bombardygamer4248 Yeah. Funniest thing is that they used actual high-strength locomotive paint to do the police livery, which meant they had serious trouble getting it off once the commercial was shot.
Missed opportunity to mention Eschede train disaster from 1998 - where attempt of bringing back compound steel/rubber wheels end up in one of the deadliest train disasters in Europe.
Nah, Enschede isn't comparable. They weren't really trying to "bring back" the design. The idea of putting a rubber ring layer between the steel wheel and the steel tyre, was a concept already in common usage around the world..... On trams. The design technically works just fine at what it's designed to do, the problem was, that it's simply not suitable for the stress of high speed trains.
@@GrandProtectorDark The main problem was poor maintenance. There was a crack in one steel tyre big enough that it shouldn't have been allowed to run anymore. Only at slow speed to the next workshop. Compound tyres work fine even on high speed train when properly maintained, but they add a layer of complexity and potential failure compared to monobloc tyres.
@@pxlcowpxl6166 No to mention the fact that railway suspension systems have improved a lot since the 1990's and modern air suspension systems (e.g., the suspension on the N700A and N700S Shinkansen high speed train sets) have made ride quality based on the wheel design moot.
@@pxlcowpxl6166Das Problem war: Durch das Aufschrumpfen der Radreifen bei Monoblockrädern standen die Radreifen unter Spannung. Risse zeigten sich folglich Aussen. Also genügte Sichtkontrolle. Man dachte, das würde auch bei den neuen Rädern genügen. Aber durch den Gummi neigten die Ringe zum Walken. Dadurch bildeten sich die Risse auf der Innenseite der Radreifen. Der Riss, der zum Bruch des Radreifen führte, hätte nur durch Ultraschall entdeckt werden können. Das war damals aber, wie oben erklärt, so gut wie nie statt. Der Radreifen war allerdings auch schon etwas zu sehr abgenutzt, man dachte aber, das könnte man auch erst ersetzen, wenn der Zug in Hamburg wäre, wo sein Heimatbetriebswerk war. Da kam der Zug aber nicht mehr an...
@@Dirk-Ulowetz Danke für die Auffrischung. Ich wusste, dass der Unfall durch grobe Fahrlässigkeit möglich gemacht wurde, aber nicht mehr genau wie. Wenn ein Radreifen zu sehr abgefahren ist, dann muss das Fahrzeug unbedingt bezettelt werden und darf dann nur noch mit verringerter Geschwindigkeit und ohne Fahrgäste (bzw. Güterwagen ohne Fracht) bis zur nächsten Werkstatt fahren. Da gibts kein wenn und aber. Man muss nicht wissen, was im Radreifen alles passieren kann, wenn er zu weit abgefahren ist. Die Sicherheitsvorschriften im Eusenbahnverkehr sind nicht zum Spaß da. Übrigens, man unterscheidet zwischen Monoblockrad (ganzes Rad ist ein Stück Stahl) und, wie in dem Fall, bereiftem Rad (besteht aus Radkörper, Sprengring aus Gummi und Radreifen außen daraufreschrumpft). Früher gab es auch noch das Speichenrad.
The Montreal Metro is dependent on its rubber tired trains because the gradients it uses are too steep for steel wheels without a fourth rail with grooves to assist, but that would dramatically slow it down.
Actually, improvements in traction control now allows conventional rail technology to conquer the slopes unaided. When there was a call for new rolling stock recently, at least one bidder offered conventional rail technology. It wouldn't even require a retrofit, since the Metro (as in Paris) already has steel rails of standard gauge in place, along with a third rail.
@@expletivedeleted7853 Mexico City's metro is interesting for other reasons as well. Since the city is built on a giant swamp that it's very slowly sinking into, the trains are powered by pneumatic traction because it's easier on the unstable soil that their rails run over.
The limiting factor in acceleration of trains is not the adhesion of steel on steel but passenger comfort. It is expected that passengers can walk around in a railway carriage. Consequently acceleration is normally limited to about 1/20 g. (1 mph/second) Steel wheels can easily achieve 1/10 g. If you have ever been standing in a carriage when the driver makes an emergency brake application, you'll know exactly what I mean.
@@u2bear377I haven't looked it up to verify, but it seems to make sense. Long distance trains might limit their acceleration and deceleration for comfort. But commuter and subways trains travel short distances between stations, and it would make more sense to speed up and slow down at a higher rate. These style of trains tend to have overhead grab loops and poles, for people to hold onto so they don't fall over during acceleration.
@@u2bear377 I think that's the point: commuter trains and metros in general sacrifice comfort and max speed for increased acceleration/deceleration and service frequency.
Perhaps worth mentioning the Paris Metro, which converted some lines to rubber tyres after WW 2. The advantages of quick acceleration and braking, and quiet running, would seem especially useful for a commuter line, and maximum speed isn't very high. Rubber dust everywhere would be a particular problem in tunnels, though.
80's EMU onward already have insane acceleration anyway to the point it already on 60 kph right after leaving the station, so the point is kinda moot anyway.
Steel's efficiency has nothing to do with slipperiness. This is a painfully common error in education/edutainment and misleads a lot of people. You use the word "friction" to refer to both "adhesion" and "rolling resistance", apparently confusing the two which have basically nothing to do with each other. Good adhesion doesn't waste energy, it's what lets you accelerate and brake. Steel on steel actually has pretty good adhesion most of the time. High rolling resistance is what just wastes energy. It mostly comes from the periodic deformation of the wheel while rolling. Steel doesn't deform like inflated rubber.
@@MegaZeta It is not worth it to misinforme an audience, and most people are not that knowledgeable about train stuff - even these days, unfortunately.
@@AnonOmis1000 I have also seen it. It reminds me of the army Jeeps with swappable wheels for inspecting rail lines during WWII. I know that one of my grandfathers drove vehicles including Jeeps for the army, but I don’t know if he ever had that particular job.
Considering how poorly received the Budd cars were, it's just a little surprising railroads continued to try their products afterwards. But considering those followup products, like the Pioneer Zephyr and its derivatives, were absolute smash hits, it's a good thing they did.
The picture of the Silver Slipper at 8:15 is actually taken on the Reading Railroad. The Budd Company was native to Philadelphia, which was also the headquarters of the Reading and the Pennsylvania, probably one of the reasons why both were so ready to buy in so early. The Reading, in particular, was the railroad primarily used by Budd for factory deliveries and initial testing of equipment. Many pictures of Budd equipment can be found on the Reading system, even if they were not intended for use on the Reading. There are rather famous pictures of the Budd Metroliner and Silverliner-both intended for the Pennsylvania Railroad and painted/signed as such-on Carpenter Siding at Jenkintown. Pictures of the Rio Grande's Prospector at West Trenton station also exist. The exceptionally straight, level, and fast, New York Division between Jenkintown and West Trenton was the preferred Budd test track, especially after the move to new, larger, facilities at Red Lion Road, which was directly alongside said route. The reason that the picture of the Silver Slipper can be identified as being on the Reading is because of the catenary support on the left-hand side of the picture, especially the angled support between the horizontal and vertical steel I-beams. That is very much a Reading electrification hallmark. Interestingly, the New Hope branch left the Bethlehem Division at Glenside station (technically CARMEL Interlocking a bit beyond it), which is the next station after Jenkintown, about two miles away. The Reading's railcar, however, would not have usually seen service at Glenside. 1931 was when the Reading inaugurated electric service, and the New Hope branch was included as far as Hatboro station (the last station in Montgomery County), with New Hope service generally being a shuttle from there through Bucks County, which rather quickly got a bit more rugged and therefore less suitable for suburbanization. Incidentally, the accent is on "New" instead of "Hope". NEW Hope. Just a local quirk.
recurring correction: while a wheel deforming generates more grip due to larger contact area, the grip is what effects rolling resistance. It is the not-100% efficiency of the wheel deforming and un-deforming. If you think for a second, a non-slipping wheel would have 0 speed difference between it and the rail/road, making grip a non-factor.
I vaguely remember seeing photos of some of these Michelin railcars but I never knew the reason as to why they looked so automobile-like or that they had rubber tyres. A very incredible design for its time!
One good thing is that rubber tyres can be recycled, and condoms can even be made from old tyres. They can get three hundred and sixty-five condoms from a Good Year. Thanks for another great presentation.
Of course, modern hi-rail trucks here in the US also use rubber tires to move, though they do also have separate raisable steel wheels for when being used on a rail line, mainly for keeping the trucks on the tracks and activating crossing signals (if necessary).
The PCC streetcar was equipped with a compound rubber wheels,and rubber suspension system! So Michelin did have another long felt effect,as some 10,000 cars were produced,and are still running! Plus there were subway derivatives,that also have been well used! Thank you 😇 😊!
A clarification about friction: The friction that you need for starting and stopping is sliding friction of surfaces. More of this does not necessarily impede motion at continuous speed -- after all, consider cog railways. Rubber tires have an additional way of losing energy, though -- they flex much more than steel wheels, and that flexion is not perfectly elastic, but instead dissipates some of the energy that went into flexing them as heat. This type of loss will occur even if the wheel is operating on wet or icy rail, which greatly reduces the sliding friction but leaves the flexional friction unchanged (apart from whatever effect temperature has on it). That said, many HiRail vehicles use rubber tires on the tracks. (A fair subset of HiRail vehicles have the rubber tires lifted off the tracks entirely, and if they use them at all it is by pressing them against the steel wheels that run on the rails -- this is not about them.) The HiRail vehicles that use rubber tires directly on the tracks also have steel guide wheels. Of course, HiRail vehicles have rubber tires for the purpose of road travel (in some cases even off-road travel) when they are not on the rails, so the drawbacks of rubber tires are viewed as acceptable. They are usually maintenance of way vehicles, and in some cases road-capable yard switchers, thus lessening the impact of the drawbacks of rubber tires. Even so, I have seen videos of a Hi-Rail truck acting as a locomotive, pulling a substantial train on a standard heavy rail line. For example: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-yQPZP_ifyiw.html and ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-W-W-jHpMbx8.html Of course, the rubber tires available today are a LOT tougher than those available in the 1930s.
There are several designs of industrial hi-rail switchers that use road wheels directly on the rail and have drop guide wheels to negotiate curves. Shuttle wagon and pettybone are the two that come to mind most often in the states.
Apparently also tested in the Netherlands. The picture at 4:58 in the tests in Britain part shows a Michelin railcar with a British looking steam engine behind, but this steam engine is a Dutch class 3700.
Now you need to have a talk with Hyce about the galloping geese from the Rio Grande Southern, because seriously, those early railcars seriously look like the geese
During my time with British Rail Engineering during the 70’s I machined many a steel tire to be shrunk onto steel wheels. Now I believe they are one piece units which can be reprofiled.
I would assume the rubber tyres decrease the amount of wear on the track. Underground systems must run constantly so minimising track maintenance is a must, have good acceleration and breaking as well as tackling steep slopes. Underground trains are never too far from maintenance facilities. Moving the maintenance burden from the track to the rolling stock could find some niche uses with underground systems but tyres do generate the most heat under acceleration and breaking. The tyre dust problem still may not be fixed though.
The most entertaining sponsorship spot I've seen! And a great video as always. In the last minute you mentioned what I had been busting to comment on from the beginning--that the Montreal Metro ran on rubber (at least when I visited in the 1970s!). Meanwhile, I lament the end of Budd car service on the BCR, and thought: those Coventry cars are exactly what is needed in British Columbia!
You missed the opportunity to explain that modern radial tires for automobiles came out of the development of the tires for the Michelines. These were the first steel radial tires, when automobiles at the time had bias ply tire cord. Radials lasted much longer.
There was also this Southern San Luis Valley Railroad-built Locomotive called the D500. It too was fitted with rubber tires but the experiment didn't work so they were removed
I always thought rubber tires made more sense on locomotives than on railcars and rolling stock. The reason is because rubber traction tires give locomotives better grip and traction on the rails, and they will also reduce and/or completely eliminate wheelslip. After all, model trains use rubber traction tires, and they get away with it.
@@AnimalsVehiclesAndMore Problem is that Locomotives are really heavy, so they can't use Rubber tyres. Also, rubber tyres have to be replaced quite often, which is bad because locomotives are really expensive and you want them running as much as possible. What a dilemma.
Model trains use solid rubber tyres. Also, model trains can't/don't really simulate real scale physics, and some types _need_ rubber tyres because they climb slopes that are not normally found in conventional railway.
Ironically, the basic idea of using air pressure to improve riding quality is now widespread on passenger trains: Airbags as on an Amfleet coach, and pneumatic shock absorbers on nearly all modern passenger cars.
It seems like a modern version where only during acceleration and braking it lowered a few wheels with tires on them, for the rest of the time you just use the more efficient steel only wheels.
I wonder if things would have gone differently if the tires were made of pure solid rubber instead of being inflated with air. It might not be any different but you may not have to replace them as often. As for the bouncing, perhaps that could be fix with soft suspension like a lot of off-road vehicles have. Then again, I’m no physicist and I’m not a full fledged engineer (civil/mechanical/construction) yet, so I can’t predict how that would work out.
I feel like this kind of wheel would best be used on something like the Decapod that the Great Eastern Railway built. If it's only purpose is to start trains quickly, then something with that much power and the friction provided by rubber tires would help that greatly. Granted, it would likely have to be an 0-6-0 diesel shunter that this is done to (another potential variant of a Class 08), but it could still be useful
If you never been in electric commuter train 80's EMU already can accelerate to 60 kph right after leaving station. Heck, even some SEA made EMU can reach 80 kph right after leaving station. So it's kinda moot point anyway
Modern Bogies have active Suspension. Modern Wheelsets are Powered so the EMU's have the fastest acceleration and stopping distance. Steel on Steel have a significantly Higher carrying capacity. Try putting a double decker Slow Commuter train on rubber = POP explode. When put on High Speed Trains - as was the way in Germany = en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eschede_train_disaster The ONLY advantage a rubber tyre has is on climbing inclines greater than 5%. But it would have to be small, low passenger, with LOW tph (trains per hour).
@@laurencefraser these road trains in Sydney were shaped like steam trains but where driven by a steering wheel and rubber tires. They operated around the harbour giving rides to local residents and tourists (primarily on weekends)
This kinda reminds me of the rubber rings some model railways have to enhance traction. Were rubberised driving wheels on an otherwise steel wheeled train ever tested?
see if it were me .. what i would do its use tracks embedded in a road way keep the steel wheels and bogies on the passenger and goods wagons and have the locomotive have powered rubber wheels and steel guide wheels that way you get the benefit of rubber on asphalt for the loco and steel on steel for the trailing load
And that lost you a viewer , I am required to pay for a TV licence , thank you for diluting the value i get from it by encouraging people to lie to access a paid-for service.
Hi, very interesting document.As a suplemental info, a rail car used in Poland before 2 nd World War was eqiuped with combined, pneumatic tyres mounted inside steel standard wheels.Rail car (constructed by Austro Daimler) and produced also in Poland was called Luxtorpeda, more info en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxtorpeda.
