I always figured VTubers and other streamers started with a lot of chatting to allow the rest of their audiences time to tune in in case they missed the start, but this new insight is actually quite fascinating. Thanks :)
yeah that is definitely part of it too, you can see in the graphs she shows that audience goes up rapidly in first 30mins or so, though as mentioned that's also why start soon screens are important to absorb some of that.
If you watch Numi's stream, you may notice that she stopped gaming all together, with the exception of Azur Lane which she only started doing recently. All gameplay streams she does on RU-vid.
I am obviously a way smaller streamer so it's hard to compare, but this is it for me. My viewership goes up when I start the game. I am just hanging out so people can pop in for the game, despite maybe being a bit late. Guess it just really depends.
@@YuriaVT Maybe it's a community thing. What Geega showed doesn't make sense for me. If she loses viewer after starting a game, I fail to understand why play the game at all? But I guess, on some instances, it's the other way around and the viewership increases once they play games.
From my experience there's a big difference between an "entertainer" streamer and one that focuses on one or a handful games at most. An entertainer has viewers that enjoy light chatting, the streamer talking about themselves, collabing with friends and whatnot. A gaming streamer (for the lack of a better term) has viewers specifically for that one game. The fans could watch an 8 hour stream of the same game every day and the numbers just go up. But the millisecond the streamer switches to a different game, everyone stops watching. A good example I remember for this used to be BoxBox, known specifically for his League of Legends Riven gameplay, who then had a very difficult time branching out without losing all of his viewers.
It's like the difference between Mr Fruit and Datto, where Fruit did a lot of Destiny content but had a bunch of other stuff he did alongside it (while being an adorable goober), and Datto almost exclusively did Destiny content (though mainly because he tried to do other games later on and just didn't measure up).
I personally don't really like chatting streams, so it was kind of eye-opening to see this. It's always fascinating to see the data behind stuff like this.
Yeah it's kind of wild, when I'm watching a vtuber and they stop playing a game and start chatting, that's usually when I leave. We're a minority I guess.
Chatting streams depend heavily on the personality of the streamer. If it's someone like Geega or Kirsche, you know you're gonna have some interesting topics and knowledge dropped on your lap and it'll be genuinely entertaining. I feel like they're at their best when they're just shooting the breeze with chat and discussing whatever interests them. There are a lot of streamers that cannot pull this off, and are only entertaining when they're being skillful in a game (or at least reacting to it). Personally I find chatting streams to be the most fulfilling.
@@Feroce Maybe I'm a hypocrite because if I have no interest in the game I'll just hang out while doing something else and it's usually fine. But if they're streaming a game I like or a game I'm interested in seeing the streamer play/react to then the chatting becomes incredibly tedious to me and I'll tune out and watch the vod later so I can skip ahead. I've got a limit. It doesn't matter how personable or funny you are, if I'm also here for the game then I need the banter and the gameplay. Doesn't have to be good, just has to be happening
it kinda depends on the streamer for me? Sometimes chatting streamers are very communicative with their chat, which is nice, like you get to actually engage with them and ask them questions etc. Those are usually the ones I'll stay for chatting streams. When its just someone sitting there rambling at the screen, I'm usually less interested in those and would rather just wait for them to play a game.
That's probably one of the reasons GTA RP is popular, because you're able to listen to the streamer have unique conversations with many different people, there's things at stake for messing up, and the human element keeps things unpredictable and fresh.
And ironically, but this is youtube, I skip EVERY gta stream uploads regardless if it's from the one I follow. The interaction/rp just seem too forced for me. I feel like watching an improv theater of newbies where no one knows what they are doing.
@@konaqua122 That sounds HILARIOUS. Kinda like Bub Games, he does RP server trolling in LOT'S of different games, mostly gmod and gta. Really funny guy, love that dude. HIS videos are good, maybe you'll like those better.
Can confirm that's definitely my pattern. I'm there for the Geega podcast. It also doesn't help that Geega plays hype games like Armored Core 6 exclusively off stream.
Yeah, but sometimes you've already seen hype games somewhere else, so you would rather see something else. Or you want to play it yourself and don't spoiler yourself. Doesn't happen with chatting.
@@cheesesculptor interesting! This is even more surprising, since lets plays were my jam when I was younger. It was actually the just chatting part of livestreams that were hard for me to get into at first.
Geega has so much knowledge of this kinda stuff and I love that she explains it to us Also she's so right about the attention thing. Keeping track of a gameplay stream takes way more energy than a chatting one
I don't think it's exclusive to vtubers either, it was the entire platform for Twitch where, people you watch based on personality (or in some cases, because they're pretty, it seems) tended to drift more and more into just chatting over time. I do think the games have a different and potentially positive effect on larger time scales, but just chatting is just the broadest possible appeal at any given point
As someone who left twitch ages ago I did watch for the games and after IRL became a thing I just left so chances are most likely twitch audiences shifted towards that type of content due to peeps like me disappearing entirely off the platform. Dunno which came first though but it's self reinforcing either way. Suppose it's similar with vtubers
People need that social aspect because they dont get that in real life, people can be completely alone but just absorb some of the social interactions to feel better.
It's also a good vibe check for new viewers, streamers are essentially forced to be entertaining or just talk and when that happens you can get the vibe of the stream real quick and see if it's a fit for you or not. So people are more inclined to stick around for the entertainment peak where they like the vibe in just chatting, but lose interest in games where the entertainment takes more of a back seat to the gameplay.
Probably also a loss of audio-only biewers who can't handle that much extra noise and stuff during the workday, or while doing other stuff with this on in the background
Chatting is the common denominator of your channel, not everyone who watches you will like every game you play but they're all there for you in the end, a game will splinter that in the direct amount of viewers but it can get you exposed to new people who are into the game itself, people move around Like doing collabs, you will usually mutually exchange some viewers, people can eventually grow fatigued of someone they watch a ton but a collab can turn them on to the person you're collabing with and vice versa, it's symbiotic, streaming becomes much more interesting when you think of viewers as little trading cards
For female vtubers yes , but male content creators that focus on playing or covering a specific game, such as pro players, cannot afford to chat or play different games.
For me it’s not only the increased attention a game takes, but also the previous context. If a game with story is played, I don’t like to start watching in the middle and I probably didn’t watch all the streams with this game that came before.
This is really interesting to see, because I'm the complete opposite! I mostly watch vods and when I do, I almost never watch just chatting streams, because I feel like there is too little going on for my brain and I need the gameplay and chatting to really concentrate on other things like drawing or working. I do enjoy zatzudan clips though.
I can listen to Just Chatting while doing something else. A stream is hours long. I can go make dinner, mop the floor, something, and it's there in the background. Every now and again something happens and I can glance over for the visual part. I'm paying attention, I just don't have a 4 hour block to sit there. Who has a 4 hour block? I don't have a 4 hour block for ME to play video games. Video games mean I have to actively sit, watch, and listen.
I guess i shouldnt be surprised im in the minority. If im watching a stream live, its almost always a game I enjoy. I get my chatting moments from clips.
It's not even just vtubers. I watch many streamers. Vtubers, webcam streamers, and people with no webcam at all, just a starting soon screen. I've found almost all of them start their streams with at least 30 minutes of chatting, if not an hour. It's a good way to let viewers come in, and still engage with the chat. Let people settle in. Tell stories, let chatters tell stories. That kind of thing. Let alone some streamers just enjoy doing that to get in the streaming mood.
It's honestly dependent on the Vtuber/streamer in question. There are plenty of other streamers or VTubers who actually gain viewership while they play games. It may also depend on how they cultivate their audience and their audience's expectations, how entertaining their gameplay or reaction is or how well they're able to maintain interaction with chat while playing a game. So I wouldn't suggest anyone to take Geega's numbers and statistics and go "Sasuga, this must apply to every VTuber/streamer out there".
I wonder if it's just two different audiences. I've joined a few Vshojo streams thinking "Oh they're playing this I'd like to check it out" and three streams in a row I wasn't actually able to keep watching until they got to the game. Now if I open the stream and they aren't playing I'll often just leave.
The thing about story games is you can only watch them if you know what's going on. I can't watch someone get a bunch of endings for a cool game if I missed the other streams where they played the game. This is why VODs and Let's Plays are so much better as a medium for those things than livestreaming.
One thing I've found too is a lot of times I'll jump out of a stream because the game is TOO interesting and I want to play it without more spoilers lol. It's a tough balance, I'm sure!
Honestly the chatting segment is usually my favourite for any vtuber stream. Anyone can provide decent gameplay with enough practice but the banter between vtubers and their chat is a whole other level of entertainment.
This is interesting but it makes a lot of sense. Gaming is great if you're into the game, but everyone's taste in games is different, and it's a lot harder to join the stream halfway through depending on the kind of game it is. Whereas chatting is a lot more universal and you can jump in any time, so it probably has a higher ceiling. I think that's where someone like Northernlion shines so much, he's able to basically do both at once, you can either watch the game or just leave it open in the background and listen to him talk about grocery stores and random tiktoks he saw on twitter
Attention spans are tricky. I forget the general rule but if you have like a long popular podcast you can often predict within seconds when someone is going to, maybe not change the subject but bring up something additional or new or interesting. That's to maintain listening time.
I mean I get that, I'm someone who doesn't watch a lot of streams because I want to do my own stuff so I usually don't stick around for multiple hours unless I'm personally engaged and I think that's just how it is with most people to varying degrees.
I could actually say i learned something new about vtubers and streaming, plus it makes sense now why vtubers do chatting first then something else next.
I thought the pre chatting was mostly just prepping and updates on whatever happened yesterday they want to discuss before the game and or discussing plans lel
Also factoring into that is how much time a person has to actually watch the stream live…. I prefer vods since I can pause, rewind, and watch at my own leisure. I don’t have 40 hours each day to spend watching all the 20+ VTubers I like and thus pick and choose vods based on game, collab partners, and my mood at the time.
I really appreciate Geega’s just chatting part of her stream since I’m working at the time and just listen to her stream . Helps me not go postal at work . I go from Buff to Zen and Geega during my work day depending on who’s chatting or gaming .
Twitch's recommendations are based almost entirely on what category you're streaming in. Since Just Chatting is by far the most popular category on Twitch you'll get the most people recommended to your stream if you're in that category as opposed to a relatively unpopular game, and those people will leave once the Just Chatting segment ends.
Geega's numbers reflect most vtubers. Personally, I tune out during free chat. I don't even watch the free chat segments of my oshi. It's just not what I'm looking for. But, I do understand why free chat is popular.
As a viewer, I find myself reacting to content shifts during streams to make a decision on what I am need to be doing. It's not that I dont want to watch the game, it's that I slightly procrastinate my time allotted to watch X thing. Think old school TV where people get up to use the restroom during a commercial break but instead it's when a collab is over and I need to go buy groceries. lol
I kinda figured it was since vtubers have this expensive and intricate model that is kinda the whole point of their presence it'd be a waste to not have it on full screen even for just a little while
that's crazy. i think it also really depends on what kind of streaming etiquette you're used to: the first vtuber i actually started watching always started the stream with the game on, and went straight to gaming, leaving the chatting segments at the end. he actually loses audience when he switches to just chatting, which is the complete opposite of what we're seeing here. i think streamers can groom their fanbase into liking whichever of the two models, but the downside is that their fans won't tune in for the part of the stream they aren't taught to like lol
The drop off could also be explained by veiwer endurance. That graph is a span of like 2-6+ hours. People could just be getting tired of watching streams in general. Could also be like spoiler avoidance depending on the game.
I dont know if she'll see this, but this is my take. 100% agree with everything said, but also Just Chatting you can drop into at any point and you'll easily get into the flow of the conversation. For a game, if you miss an hour of it and then check into the stream, its highly likely people will just immediately leave again because its much harder to get into the flow when the game has already started. I think when you have consistent views it means you have the same amount of people replacing the people leaving. When you switch to a game, less people are replacing the people who would have left regardless of the topic
I think what it has to do with is engagement. If you are watching and hoping to interact with the streamer the likelihood and quality of that interaction if you do get it is way lower if they are engrossed in a game.
This is quite interesting. To be fair I don't tend to watch unless it is a game I am really interested in but I do keep the tab open until the stream is over. Let's be real with all these V-tubers you never know what is gonna happen, and sure there will be clips of all the best stuff later but sometimes live is best. I will never forget the day Calli of HoloEN learned live before an audience of thousands how kazoos work. It was a thing of beauty.
I think a lot of people want to multitask. They will listen to a stream in the background while they do something else. If it's a game, they need to sit down and watch in order to get full context of what the streamer is talking about.
Streamer: I'm gonna do such and such next stream, join me at this time~! it's be a big thing so be sure to be there! Me: Well that day I have two hours before I have to head out, could be fun to watch a while. That day two hours later we're STILL at the talky bit and the "thing" hasn't even been mentioned yet.... x_x
I'm always down to watch a just chatting stream but gaming streams depend soooo much on what game it is. Some games I'm just not interested in watching even if I love the streamer and I'll come back for the next one when they're doing something else
Yeah I don't do that. If I see someone starting in Just Chatting I go do something else for like an hour until they finally switch categories to the thing that they said they had planned on doing. It actually annoys me when someone does JC for so long because most times people do not lead interesting enough lives to go on for several hours every day in that category. That and, depending on the game, it's treated as a chatting stream anyway.
by the way, go take a look at the views for, for example, Doki's latest streams. her stream from yesterday about advice (basically just her talking) already has 100k views. before that, the Steam Sale stream (just her talking again), over 100k views. when she plays, stuck at 90k-ish (unless it's a collab). audience likes to hear the anime woman talking, the games are a lot of the times besides the point
On one hand, I guess it's because gaming is a lot less hands on and interactive, but at the same time it's still the same person, the same banter. That cutoff is wild to me.
I think that this is actually good since it means people came for the streamer. Better than people coming to see a game since those trends come and go.
I think Geega is being tricked by the numbers here a bit. Yeah, There is a falloff when you start the game, because you're starting the game multiple hours into the stream. All the people who were watching beforehand, are people that were there for the chat. When you see a chart like 2:00, you should compare the viewercount to the start of the stream, not it's highest point. Most people who would be interested in watching you play Faith, are probably not the same people that want to watch a 5 hour just chatting stream. You can't just suddenly switch up on people mid-stream 5 hours in and go 'Oh, everyone is leaving, games must suck for viewership'. If you started the game near the start of the stream, and then had a just chatting near the end, like some hololive streamers do, well, guess what, people are there to see them play the game, so their viewership plummets when it reaches the 'just chatting' part. You have to give your audience time to adapt. As for puzzle games, I don't think those are indicative of general trends, because puzzle games can be VERY frustrating to watch.
@@ZachX888 It has it's audience, it's generally not the biggest due to a lack of good new RTS games lately, but it's there. In general it can be frustrating to watch someone lose repeatedly though.
One other thing to keep in mind is that if it's a story or puzzle game that I intend to play, I'm going to close the stream so that I can preserve my own blind playthrough. Backpack Battles (and most rogue like) games dont have that problem, so it doesnt surprise me that it has better retention
As someone who is a scuff streamer, this also gives ME time to load up the game so when I do transition it isn't just a black screen, it's very useful all around ^^
I wonder how much that slide changes when it's a popular game like Helldivers 2 or Palworld (at it's peak). I know popular streamers like Asmon and Charlie go up in views, but I don't know if it's the same for smaller streamers. I'd certainly be more interested in a Just Chatting stream if a streamer's playing some random puzzle game I couldn't care less about. At least Just Chatting streams make for good background noise while I do other things.
I think it also depends on who it is whose doing the 'Just Chatting'. For instance, Matara is great; she comes in with a plan and doesn't leave a single second of dead air - girl is a pro! And Henya is super responsive and has an inquisitive personality that works well for the format. In cases like those I can see why audiences would really like, or maybe even prefer, the chatting segments. But say someone like Mouse or Nyan who sometimes have a tendency to ramble, leave dead air, and repeat themselves, I can see how the opposite might be true at times.
If you ask me I'd say it's much more likely to be due to the parasocial relationship dynamic many viewers build with vtubers. Just chatting can make it feel like you are giving them your full attention while gaming can, obviously, detract from that.
This is also why most streamers do their sponsored segment at the end of stream, since it’s the lowest viewership time it’s the lowest viewer loss risk.
I'm not sure how relevant this is, since I'll rarely catch streams and watch vods most of the time but at least for me her theory is pretty spot on. I have these streams in the background and chatting is way easier to follow and also enjoy than most games when I'm unable to divert a larger chunk of my attention to it
People also probably like the chatting more because it's interactive and engaging. As soon as a streamer starts playing a game they're concentrating on the game and chat loses that engagement. Some streamers will try to still focus on the chat, but when that happens the gameplay suffers and it becomes annoying for those who want to see quality gameplay watching someone whose constantly distracted or being interrupted by alerts, etc. So there's a balancing act between 2 demographics you can't please simultaneously. There are some exceptions, like streamers playing horror games where chat can jump scare the streamer or if the streamer has set up a stream specifically to get trolled by the chat. But that's not normally the case.
I feel like this has to be more of a Twitch culture thing, especially since chat-only streams seem to generally do significantly worse on YT compared to more typical gaming streams.
I will admit that even though I don't leave a steam when they start playing a game, I do take that opportunity to move the stream to my second monitor and fire up a game or do some work on the primary, so yeah I will notice that even if the view number doesn't take too much of a dip the amount of people actively typing in chat goes way down
It kinda makes sense because in just chatting kinda everyone can "participate" in chat and maybe just listen to the streamer talking but for a specific game some people might not like it and it's fair if they switch stream then or maybe they also want to play the game later. Like the possible audience is just smaller probably
I always figured it was because the game isn't necessarily ready to play right out of the gate. Like the streamer just installed it or there's an update.
For me, I like watching a streamer because I like their personality, so chatting will always be appealing. Meanwhile, the game really depends on what game their playing. I've sat through 3-4 hours of Ace Attorney, but I tune right out of Minecraft after 15 minutes. It's interesting because when it comes to actually playing the game myself, my habits are the opposite. I prefer to play Ace Attorney in short bursts, doing one day at a time, while in Minecraft I'm much more willing to grind for a long stretch.
A lot of people like having streams on in the background while doing other things so it makes sense. I am guilty of this cause I’ll be drawing but once they start playing a game I feel the need to watch the game but while drawing I miss things so then I drop the stream. I don’t do this all the time I do enjoy watching games but I get it yk?
I think there are only a handful of games I can watch played now that I'm older, if I try watching someone like asmon play they miss important context or items constantly and I find it frustrating and can't really enjoy myself, if I watch a fellow tryhard I tune out because it looks exactly the same as my minmaxy borderline speedrun of the game looked. I do love the chatting at the start of streams though, a lot of the non vtubers I watch also do this, gives people time to tune in and to talk to the streamer so you feel like you're actually watching live and have interaction
There's probably also alot of people who don't actually watch, but just listen to it while doing sth else, which doesn't work aswell when it's becomes more gaming noises instead of talking. I'd guess that's probably that big initial drop off.
I wouldn't be surprised if some of those chatting people are ones who just like listening in on the stream while they do other things like background noise.
Okay personally though I would rather a stream be dedicated to only chatting or only gaming. I tend to skip one or the other in vods depending on what I'm looking for. And mostly, I prefer chatting streams to be collabs. As someone talking alone for 3 hours doesn't pique my interest the same way.
Sometimes I quit because they start playing a game that Im also playing and dont want to be spolied, totally different with a game I know will ever play.
Same with many of the tub streamers, used to watch one back in the day, wholesome and cute girl playing mostly Warframe and her own rpg browser game I think her partner had made together with viewers. Tune in a few years later, pool in the middle of the room, the cute pink setup gone, hair cut short and her ass was 70% off the screen with a yellow banana floatie being the rest. Asked her and the reason being that games just don't get the views on twitch. That other one as well, Amouranth said the same thing, she likes games but the second she start a game half the viewers leave, so might as well just do the thing that actually gets the views then.
I don’t think this is a vTuber thing, I think this is a Twitch thing. Every Twitch streamer I’ve watched talks for AT LEAST an hour before playing the game I came to see. I usually just leave so I can skip that in the VOD. The reason I preferred vTubers is because they generally DON’T do this. If they say they’re streaming a game, the stream will start and the game will already be running. Or so I thought. I guess I’ve learned from this video only agency vTubers will play the game first and talk afterwards. Seems like indies (and vShojo by extension) follow the typical streamer format.
It varies between streamer. And tbh, I think they only experience that waterslide effect because they stream Just Chatting so often that it's what their audience expects of them whereas a streamer that just starts the game has less of that effect.
Personally, I can multitask and enjoy the chatting. Games are interesting the first time for a bit to see the game, and if the vtuber(s) keep chatting, but otherwise? I'd rather play a game.
