Connor, you made the exact same arguments about Grayson Rodriguez last year, and you were totally wrong. When the team was forced to call up Grayson prematurely at the beginning of the year, he struggled big time. After a few more weeks back at AAA, when he returned, he was ready for the majors. This could very well be the exact same situation with Jackson Holliday.
Jackson Holiday needs more time at second base that's the main reason in my opinion. And him playing daily in AAA will help him against left handed pitchers. Giving him more time to adjust to MLB pitching. I am know he will be in the majors this year. So I understand why the sent him minors and I feel it is in his and teams best interest. Go Os 😊
Because he's barely played Triple A and he couldn't hit lefties. When he makes the team he's going to get the Gunnar treatment (playing every day). Bring him up now, losing a year of control and hiding him on the bench isn't good for anyone. Let the kid play a triple-A
Connor I love you! I’m an everydayer, but!!! I’ve lived and died w/ this team since 1968, and I tell you there is 0 reason to doubt mike and Brandon, there is no guile and no reason to lie, I take mike at face value, I completely and totally trust this duo!!!
I think a lot of people are missing the point here: Would the Orioles be better with Jackson Holliday on the roster, taking up let's say 3/4 of the starts at 2B? Well, we know he chases too much, had close to a 40% strikeout rate in spring training, struggles against lefties, occasionally struggles to hit the changeup and breaking balls. Pretty much an unknown quantity at 2B. Now, considering that most projections have Holliday hitting 7-13HR with 500 at-bats, do you really want a 2B with that kind of power striking out 180 times or so? He won't sit on the bench, so in the long run he will hurt the team if he is not ready, not help the team. Point 2 is that last year, the O's were not expected to win 101 games so if Gunnar Henderson was going to struggle, he was going to struggle, no skin off anybody's back. Additionally, everyone and I mean everyone, considered Henderson to be a far better prospect than Jackson Holliday--he was a little older, a better fielder with a much better arm, faster, a better and smarter baserunner, and with a lot more power. So generally speaking, he was going to add to the team pretty much no matter what he did unless he totally flopped. The Orioles are in a totally different place this year and there is no way to know that Holliday will automaticaly make the team better--he might, but he might not. They've got to play it safe and it looks like he's not ready with the bat or the glove--and the Orioles already have at least 2 plus defenders and 2B already--Urias and Westburg. Honestly, and I could be wrong but I wouldn't expect to see him before June or July and maybe later in the year if they are playing really well to that point.
Considering the alternative starter is ramon urias yes I can say with confidence that Holliday would have definitively made the team better. Holliday has absolutely mashed against everyone he has seen. Henderson struggled against lefties too (and won't ROY). This whole thing is a service time manipulation farce and the orioles roster is what suffers. Now we basically have a black hole at 2B.
Why the hostility to Urias? He is likely to hit about .270 with 10-15HR and above average to excellent defense at 2 positions, with versatility and the willingness to be a part-time player thrown in. Nobody has any idea how Holliday would do, and he did not mash against everyone. He struck out almost 40% of the time--in spring training! Once MLB pitchers learn he only hits the fastball, they won't throw it to him--which would not take them very long. He clearly needs seasoning and the team intends to win now. They won last year without him and it is likely they will win again this year without him. @@tanalincia6314
@wheelerainslie6 Yes he struck out a lot, but are just going to ignore the slash line? How convenient. The Ks will come down, and the only way he will get good ABs against lefties (which were buoying the K rate) is at the major league level. He is a generational talent being blocked by a bench player. It's asinine. And the fact is that Tyler Nevin is going to be on this team instead of him. Tyler. Freaking. Nevin. A waste of a roster spot. I've watched for years how the Orioles do this and it's so frustrating.
I'm glad he went down. He's too valuable to bring up too early. Yes, he's been in clubhouses his whole life. He's more mature the other 20 year Olds. But you need to be careful. I'm 67 and I've seen hundreds of kids brought up too fast and they were ruined. He chases too much and we are about winning now. Not about having someone struggling for awhile. Lots of people are being big babies. It's them that's taking it hard because they want him up. Be patient
If we are about winning now, jackson Holliday would be on this team. If you're about winning now, you're not wasting a roster spot on Tyler Nevin (or ramon urias but that's a conversation no one seemingly wants to have). It's a bs argument. He belongs on this team. We are basically wasting lineup spots with bums. It's stupid for a team that claims to want to win.
HAHAHA clown take. Urias is an above-average defender at multiple positions and a league-average bat. Great part-time player. Nevin can easily be jettisoned if someone gets injured and they need an active roster spot. Plus he's not the same type of player as Holliday... he's a righty, a bench bat, and a corners guy. Nevin is the only "bum" on the team. But keep whining, it's funny. Holliday would chase a ton of pitches, strike out a lot, and muck up 2B until you'd kick and scream to have him demoted...@@tanalincia6314
Now, if Jackson comes up in May and wins Rookie of the Year, orioles will not get an extra 1st round pick. 😒 I mean, who doesn't want to lose a first round draft pick...?
Bummed about Holliday but I get what the Orioles are thinking. Holliday will be up this season just a matter of when. I see that MLB has the Orioles on watch as still being in the mix for Montgomery. Wouldn't it be great if the Orioles snatched him away from the Yankees and Red Sox.
The thing that doesn't make sense is the new standards for ROY and draft picks. if he is not on the OD roster the Orioles are not eligible for that high level pick. so, if they bring him up at the end of May, and he wins ROY or places second, we lose the draft pick, and the team loses the year of service time they were trying to protect. Makes me think we won't see him until August or September. to maintain his rookie status til next year. If this is the case. The team just used the possibility that he makes the team to sell tickets, when they knew he wasn't coming.
Personally I think it's wrong what we're doing. This kid earned his spot and he deserves and so does his family to see him on the orange carpet on opening day. The way we are handling all this talent we have in the minors is going to come back and bite us. These guys are going to get frustrated, if they aren't already. When it comes Time for extensions they will not forget about it. Yes it's a great problem to have but it's being handled the wrong way. We have enough talent to be great for a long time and as always we find a way to screw it up. We might get a chip or two but we can have more if we treat humans like humans instead of property
the only positive thing about him not being a opening day starter is i have a chance to see his debut now. I was also at his low a debut and it would be cool to see him at his mlb debut aswell.
Conner is normally correct......but this is monday morning QB. Opinions varied, but we would all agree Gunnar played to his absolute upside at SS as a rookie. No one, no one, knew Gunnar was gonna be THIS good at SS. The majority of opinions this time last year was that Jackson was the SS of the future.......that has changed. To blame Elias for this, wow (not getting Jackson fielding work at second LY). You guys know it is actually possible that Elias is just playing this straight. The second best L handed pitchers in the world are in AAA. Jackson will benefit from taking ALL the AB's vs left handed pitchers......and please let's consider Nevin's continuous upward movement of his career. . . . . . Like Cowser, it has taken Nevin time to adjust to each level. If you look at his numbers, it makes one heck of a lot of sense to have Nevin up instead of Jackson.......................Everything is not a conspiracy .......Nevin is 25, 26. Jackson can't legally drink. I'd rather have Nevin in the box in key AB's than Jackson ......at least until June.
This video kinda pissed me off lol Orioles first world problems rant coming… Jackson Holliday I know I know… but are we going to ignore the OTHER potential rookie of the year on our roster who did make the O’s roster coming out of camp?!?! We have the #19 in all of baseball prospect make opening day roster after hitting .318 and an ops of 1.174 with 6 dingers coming out of spring training!!! We know this dude always starts slow and that exactly what he did last year at the major league level. This dude is gonna get major at bat numbers this year and if he hits like a top 25 prospect can, rookie of the year here we come, another extra draft pick here we come, and none of this gets the attention it deserves bc we also have Jackson freaking Holliday!!! 💃🏻💃🏻💃🏻💃🏻💃🏻 Let’s Go O’s Let’s Go O’s Let’s Go O’s!!!
While upsetting, it’s not that bad really. I’m not mad at a team for wanting a 20 year old to sit in triple A for maybe a couple series max and then giving him a true coming to the show moment. Also, I’m not sure he’d start anyway.
Yeah, I'm not shocked at the decision on Jackson, we all should have expected it. On the other side, I've already seen the Tyler Nevin show and don't really feel the need to watch it again...sigh.
He's had a good spring, but you can say that about a lot of orioles. It's not just that Holliday has barely any experience, Urias, Mateo, Nevin, and Westburg all had pretty good spring trainings too. If whoever gets the roster spot is passable in exchange for a more experience Holliday and an extra year of service time, then this is clearly the right decision, especially given we're going to face a lot of lefties.
Elias knows what's best along with The skipper. Forget who said it be if you listen to the fans you'll be sitting with them soon. Let them run the club. God knows our second guessing and micro analysis didn't get them to 101 last year. 😊
@@davidjeffries5026They still got swept in the playoffs and I think it wouldn’t hurt to have Holliday start on the opening day roster, Giving Holliday a few more months won’t hurt either.
I’ve seen the highlights. As an unbiased fan of sports and the mlb. Also….as an evaluator of talent, having watched sports all my life. I would say he needs more time in the minor leagues. It’s a great spring, don’t get me wrong. Batting over 300 with a couple home runs should earn you a spot on the roster. But I don’t know where? Is he batting lead off? Second? He looks about altuve size with less pop. Definitely not Mike trout. 99 1/2 career home runs is the over under for him. I think that’s asking a lot. Good luck in the American League east. It’s always the hardest division in my opinion.
"You can't argue that the thirteen players going North with the Orioles are better than Jackson Holliday". Well true, but Jackson Holliday was not going to be a bench player. Guys that make the roster as a bench player are not meant to be better than him. He does need full time play for his development. I predict we see him end of May.
Yeah he shouldn't have been a bench player. He should have been the starter at 2nd base. Like any team actually wanting to compete would have done. Who else is starting there? Urias? Please.
He's going to be a star. However, he struck out a lot, didn't walk much, didn't throw particularly well from SS ( I know he's ticketed to play 2B but the current administration seems to like guys to be able to play multiple positions). Saw a game in Bradenton where Pirates staff just kept working him away and he 1) didn't adjust 2) got frustrated. Not the end of the world but these are all things he can work on in Norfolk. He'll be up. He'll be very, very good. @@tanalincia6314
Sending down Holliday sucks, no doubt about it. But they have done the same thing with Adley and Gunnar. Nothing so far in Elias’ time gives me any doubt
I am not terriby concerned about Holiday starting in Norfolk. 91 PA in AAA is not a big sample size, and he did not do as well at AAA as other levels. Plus, the O's have a really potent lineup anyway. I also would not discount the fact that Cowser could perform well enough to be the ROY and gain the O's a draft pick. On balance, I think this is much ado about nothing.
I seriously doubt his reassignment is related to service time. Mike Elias & Co. are too smart and experienced to play that game and risk ruining the relationship with Jackson. Jackson still needs more seasoning; and to make room for Jackson...and Mayo and others...you will have to remove other players. Do you just cut the other players and get nothing in return? Or, do you trade them and get compensation? Sustainable clubs make moves that benefit them now and the future. Also, the O's have solid vets that have a proven track record, and are contributing. Let the season play out for a while, see if their are injuries or trade targets, and wait for new owner David Rubenstein to take over.
Connor: I turned you off about half way through your latest opinionated issue. I can no longer watch/listen to your triates. You would do well to read some of Mark Hyman's writings in the Banner if you truly want to become a good reporter. Also where is your respect for the Angelos Family and for a nice statement on Peter Angelos. He has done so much for the Orioles over the years and he deserves some appreciation. Enough with the Jackson Holliday dribble and let's get positive about a great team that is heading into another great year!
The last straw for me was when Connor was keying up his twitter posts by tagging himself as the host. Very... vain. He was wrong about G-Rod - dead wrong. This will be another one of his bad takes.
"You can't argue that the thirteen players going North with the Orioles are better than Jackson Holliday" Sounds like you are implying that the O's are a joke without Holliday. They won 100 games without him last year. Pretty sure one month without him is not going to kill the O's chances of making it to the World Series. Gunnar/Adley didn't even make the squad out of spring training so what exactly makes Holliday so special?
Adley was on the 2022 Opening Day roster had he not been injured and Gunnar had only only played 5 games at AA heading into the 2022 season. You cannot compare those things. What makes Holliday special? I would say being the #1 pick and the top prospect in baseball.
I thought you were not taking Elias's words at face value? Seems like a minor thing to complain about with JH. He will be up, whether its in late April or as late as September. Let Elias do his thing, he has far more info regarding this than any of us ever will.
Has nothing to do with his productive. It’s called service time manipulation. Apologize if you mentioned this in the video wasn’t able to watch most of it due to surroundings.
Can someone explain to me why it matters if Jackson's dad was in MLB? How does that change his exposure "in the clubhouse"? Does a child have access to that? It's a bit of a stretch....no? Is that a legitimate advantage he has?
What has Holliday ever done? Bobby Witt Jr. had 285 at bats in AAA and hit 17 HRs had 15 SB and batted .285. Holliday had 75 at bats only 4 HR, 1 SB and batted .267. You can multiply that out to 15 HR, 4 SB but the avg of .267 would and should never get called up. He needs at least another 200 at bats and to get that avg up with being as consistent hitting HRs. No reason he should skip to the Majors yet.
@guitarlearningtoplay So I guess Manny Machado and Bryce harper fell apart and had terrible careers right? Oh wait.... Stop it. You're making excuses for bad baseball decisions.
@@tanalincia6314 Nevin fits in better with this team. You don't let Holiday make the team and ride the bench, like Nevin will. Holliday isn't taking ABs from Gunnar at SS. Westburg has proven he can hit at 2B. Nevin makes the team because he is more versatile defensively.
@MichaelBraden-ug2ih Westburg is playing 3rd. Holliday should be the starter at 2nd and anything else makes the team objectively worse. Nevin is not even a major league caliber player, hence why he has been DFAd what, 3 times now? Stop making excuses for poor baseball decisions.
my only problem is they got his hopes up about him having a chance but in reality he had zero chance. i can guarantee you this was their idea from the beginning.
I think the biggest reason for Holliday not making the opening day roster is the fact that he's still learning the new position. I don't buy the reasoning about facing more AAA lefties. They let Gunnar face lefties with the big club so that's not a convincing argument.
I mean, why is anyone even surprised? Mike Elias has never acted in good faith since being here. I tweeted that on December 5th. Anyone who’s been following how he operates, knew he wasn’t going to be on the roster. Holliday isn’t getting called up til late this season. Elias can’t risk him getting 2nd place in RoY and being rewarded the full year of service time. He’s getting the Gunnar special.
Im growing tired of Connor. Hes showing what a baby he is. Your not the GM. Im pretty sure there is alot of information you dont have. We sucked for years. Last year we turned it around. Seems to me the GM has earned our trust. 5 months removed from a great year and you guys are crying already.kids! Smh
Santander and/or Hays will be the trade pieces. Jackson will be up in May. Peter just passed, and the orioles' new ownership is going to spend a little next off-season 👌
@@redavis6581you don't know that. Santander is also the heart of that clubhouse and bridges the gap between the English and Spanish speakers. You can see it in how every guy interacts with him. Tony is the godfather of the O's. He has more value to the Orioles than he will have as a trade chip. Realistically, it's Mullins and Hays that are the expendable ones. Mullins is a get, Hays is a risk. But packing them together with a prospect may net a solid pitcher and a couple lottery cards.
I assume you're talking about McKenna? Who would want him other than Baltimore. They have better options than him. Stowers did enough this spring to earn a spot on this team.
Entirely false. One of the best FOs in baseball. Holliday has hardly any seasoning at AAA and none of the full-time players are expendable enough to justify putting Holliday in their place on the roster. And he's not a bench player, so he's not competing with Nevin. Read some of the smarter comments, learn your lesson, and quit whining like a fake lil fan.
@blabbitch Saying that he isn't an immediate upgrade over urias is laughable. They're currently wasting 2-3 position player roster spots and it's ridiculous. I can at least see mateo for a Terrence gore like role. But so help me if Tyler Nevin is on this team on OD I'm going to lose it. It's absolutely farcical when they have the talent they do to keep rostering bums.
