I tried to do a reaction to the first three episodes with just some notes and my anger to guide me. It's.... not my style, but it was worth a shot. It's no longer public, but I'll leave it here for posterity: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-UsmqBmm5MIc.html
"We want to have our cake and eat it too. We want to invoke the name of an intellectual property specifically known for this, that, and the other thing, BUT we want to totally do our own thing, AND we don't want you to criticize us for having done our own thing." -activist writers
@@007Thanos007 It's funny. Paul Verhoeven got the rights to Starship Troopers so he could use the name. Didn't care for the actual story (he was basically a socialist who wanted to push an anti-fascist story, similar to his anti-capitalist story of Robocop) and built his own skinsuit of a story around the skeleton of the original. Should've been crap, but, look at that!, he had talent and actually made a good movie that was entertaining and his message ended up getting sidelined by the spectacle. The same result as Robocop. Both results are hilarious in that light. AND we got two great movies out of it. If you've got talent, it shows. If you don't have it, you (or your activist defenders, and sadly desperate fans) make excuses or blame others.
@@613harbinger316 I think that "Starship Troopers" worked because it was something unknown, even to most science fiction fans (the source material I mean), and yes, because he did good work. The same with RoboCop. Similarly, I think that The Boondocks was such an excellent animated series, because even though what's-his-name Magruder is a leftist and apparent black separatist, he seems to have largely left the series alone and allowed the show's creators to make a great product. Who knows if The Boondocks would have been nearly as good in the year 2023, where people seem to want to *deliberately* be as annoying and edgelord as possible in addition to simply putting forth their political beliefs.
@@jamesalexander958 my guess is narcissistic, eternally online writers who think they have more talent than Robert Jordan. I think they actively hate the source material but don't have the talent to write something better so they destroy the adaptation trying to "fix" all the non-existent issues.
Wow. To hear BRANDON SANDERSON, of all people, the guy who said "always err on the side of awesome" say they were sacrificing story for cool scenes..."damning" is an understatement.
Thing is, Sanderson understands that for a moment to actually land as "awesome" it has to make sense and not pull you out of the narrative asking logistical questions. He, unlike the writers of this shit tier adaptation, understands that if you If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding. You have to lay the foundation of meat for the "awesome" pudding payoff to work.
Sanderson also knows that WoT was not his story. He's a major fan of Jordan's work and was given the honor of completing that work by Jordan's widow, Harriet. So, yah, he's very defensive about it and is not happy about the changes.
@@asciiavatar Exactly. Sanderson respects the original work he was brought in to finish. These showrunners actively disrespect the original books and go out of their way to shit on it, and Jordan's life's work. They are arrogant enough to think "we can do it better" Sheer fucking hubris.
Robert Jordan drew a lot of his world from the Real World. He was trying to illustrate that evil exists and often is hidden in plain sight. Think about how the traveling salesman would visit the Two Rivers every year, always seeming a wonderful guy, but was in reality an agent of the Dark One always searching. The "fans" of the books desperately want to believe that's all just fiction because that's the easier way to live life. However, when you watch how these scum went out of their way to butcher the story, just like they did to Tolkien, you have to open your eyes and understand that there is real evil at work here. They rejoice in the complaints from the 'fans'. They openly threaten the fans and call them foul names. Why? Because they know that the 'fans' will take any abuse all the while still tuning in and still enriching those who abuse them. It's literally Abused Spouse Syndrome writ large. And until folks wake up and refuse to participate, the abuse will continue. The Dark One Wins.
I wish I could remember the RU-vidr who said this so I could give credit, but its the best take: "this isn't The Wheel of Time, it's The Tire of Clock."
Probably starting with the reason that the woman in charge of Amazon Studios let him be the show-runner in the first place... because it obviously wasn't due to his ability and/or experience. And yes, it explains a lot of other things, too.
I tuned out of Amazon's "Waste of Time" during season 1 because I was so enraged with what they did. I'm now in my 50s, but I first read "The Eye of the World" at Fort Benning, GA, right before I started Army Basic Training, and then I ended up taking it and "The Great Hunt" with me in paperback to Desert Shield/Storm ... so WOT has been some of my favorite books forever ... and what they did is appalling.
Exactly. I probably should have just turned it off as soon as that nonsense with Perrin's wife in the very first episode. Instead, I watched until the absurd love triangle with Perrin and Egwene. Not worth my time. I'm done tuning in to watch my favorite stories be ruined. I have better things to do.
@@MrMagnanimanyes I started watching with a friend who hasn't read the books, and found myself explaining from the opening moments how "that never happened", "he would never do that" (said as to every "he" in the show), "this is what he/she really looks like", "they aren't together", etc. I stopped watching and I am glad she did too, because I am sure she will enjoy the books if this show didn't completely taint them for her. And having to explain to my bestie why I would spend an entire summer reading the books after she saw this monstrosity of a show...😂
@@nicolethompson8613 It's like they inverted all the male characters. Perrin was the most faithful, devoted lover, so he's going to have a new wife that he murders and he's going to try to birddog his best friend's girl. Rand is the primary protagonist and is the most powerful channeler, so he has to be an indecisive weakling. And poor Mat never had a chance. He's funny, and the people that made this show think that a "joke" is when you belittle someone for not living in New York, Chicago, or L.A.
@@MrMagnaniman you are spot on. Those three are such wonderful characters, Perrin was definitely my "book crush", that seeming half-wit that plays him on the show is like Perrin's polar opposite. Ugh. I don't know how anyone can watch. The Three Rivers boys were done the dirtiest for sure.
The most rewarding scene in the books was the end of book 7 Lord of Chaos. You have spent 7 books with these women who are so entitled and evil to the point of capturing Rand and locking him in a box. Then when he is freed by the men he leads, these men who have been cast aside as insane trash by these women but Rand has brought purpose. They decimate, and Tain says “softly” and with authority to the women “Kneel and swear to the Lord Dragon, or you will be knelt.” Best scene! Chills every time! This show can not pull this moment off. It would go against everything they have set up. It goes against every philosophy these creators stand for. And for that, this show is trash.
@@dyslexicultimatum5318 Of course it demeans women. That's the point. Taim is a bad guy. And this is when Rand is feeling very vulnerable and powerless, so he feels he has to show how strong he is. And, based on the traumatic experience he literally just escaped from, he thinks that strength is cruelty. This is the biggest turning point when Rand begins his dissent into ruthlessness. The box changed him. It could be said that sparing their lives was generous. However, instead, he enslaves them. With the force of magical compulsion (by way of the Oaths). Hardly any better. Point being, it's clear that the people making the show don't understand any of this. That makes it a very easy choice to not bother watching it. And that's really the only way to make it stop.
Not to mention in the books she actualy IS quite the carrot. Most beautiful woman in the world. I know it is literaly impossible to film but they didnt even tryed.
Possibly the second best passage in the entire series: "Oh, Light, Ingar," Rand released his hold on the other man and sagged back against the stable wall. "I think... I think wanting to is enough. I think all you have to do is stop being...one of them." Ingtar flinched as if Rand had said it out. Darkfriend. "Rand, when Verin brought us here with the Portal Stone, I - I lived other lives. Sometimes I held the Horn, but I never sounded it. I tried to escape what I'd become, but I never did. Always there was something else required of me, always something worse than the last, until I was... You were ready to give it up to save a friend. Think not of glory. Oh, Light, help me." Rand did not know what to say. It was as if Egwene had told him she had murdered children. Too horrible to be believed. Too horrible for anyone to admit to unless it was true. Too horrible. After a time, Ingtar spoke again, firmly. "There has to be a price, Rand. There is always a price. Perhaps I can pay it here." "Ingtar, I..." "It is every man's right, Rand, to choose when to Sheathe the Sword, Rand. Even one like me." Before Rand could say anything, Hurin came running down the alley. "The patrol turned aside," he said hurriedly, "down into the town. They seem to be gathering down there. Mat and Perrin went on." He took a quick look down the street and pulled back. "We'd better do the same, Lord Ingtar, Lord Rand. Those bug-headed Seanchan are almost here." "Go, Rand," Ingtar said. He turned to face the street and did not look at Rand or Hurin again. "Take the Horn where it belongs. I always knew the Amyrlin should have given you the charge. But all I ever wanted was to keep Shienar whole, to keep us from being swept away and forgotten." I know, Ingtar." Rand drew a deep breath. "The Light shine on you, Lord Ingtar of House Shinowa, and may you shelter in the palm of the Creator's hand." He touched Ingtar's shoulder. "The last embrace of the mother welcome you home." Hurin gasped. "Thank you," Ingtar said softly. A tension seemed to go out of him. For the first time since the night of the Trolloc raid on Fal Dara, he stood as he had when Rand first saw him, confident and relaxed. Content. "Rand turned and found Hurin staring at him, staring at both of them. "It is time for us to go." "But Lord Ingtar --" "-- does what he has to," Rand said sharply. "But we go." Hurin nodded, and Rand trotted after him. Rand could hear the steady tread of Seanchan boots, now. He did not look back.
Mat and Perrin were mounted by the time Rand and Hurin reached them. Far behind him, Rand heard Ingtar's voice rise. “The Light, and Shinowa!” The clash of steel joined the roar of other voices. “Where's Ingtar?” Mat shouted. “What's going on?” He had the Horn of Valere lashed to the high pommel of his saddle as if it were just any horn, but the dagger was in his belt, the rubytipped hilt cupped protectively in a pale hand that seemed made of nothing but bone and sinew. “He's dying,” Rand said harshly as he swung onto Red's back. “Then we have to help him,” Perrin said. “Mat can take the Horn and the dagger on to -” “He is doing it so we can all get away,” Rand said. For that, too. “We will all take the Horn to Verin, and then you can help her take it wherever she says it belongs.” “What do you mean?” Perrin asked. Rand dug his heels into the bay's flanks, and Red leaped away toward the hills beyond the town. “The Light, and Shinowa!” Ingtar's shout soared after him, sounding triumphant, and lightning crashed across the sky in answer.
there is a related anecdote. They often mention "take what you want, pay for it" as much of the evil done was by those trying to avoid paying the butchers bill. In my opinion this proves Ingtar and Verin died clean. May the last embrace of the mother welcome them home.
A few paragraphs and better than the cumulative writing of the entire show. I understand having to make cuts for the adaption but they just sliced the story and characters to ribbons.
As a 21yo woman, the Wheel of Time was such a wonderful surprise to me exactly because the female characters feel like REAL people, and the sexist societies make complete sense. I even agree with a lot of the sexism tbh, but the fact that this man, writing a classic fantasy "chosen one" book series, actually put in the effort to create such incredible female characters and such a complex world, filled with actual realistic societies, and seemed to have equal respect for both male and female characters, both patriarchal and matriarchal societies, just stunned me. Thye did NOT need to try and make this story more feminist. There was NO. NEED. It is already a feminist story. The way the show just destroys Rand, Mat and Perrin by trying to make Egwene, Nynaeve and Moirane more important is just... a tragedy. Ugh. And they couldn't even achieve that. They just made all of them worse. All of it.
You forgot to mention the Seanchan look completely stupid and not at all like they were described in the books, it is funny because it literally has pictures in the Books showing what the Seanchan helmet looking like a mantis.
It is not a feminist story, that is historical revisionism. It is just a GOOD story, period. Stop trying to put everything into neat political categories as a way to justify you liking something. It sounds just like the current wave of "eveything good was actually queer all along"-movement that is going on currently. It is nonsense.
@@kolrengenifyYou misunderstood what feminism meant. Not what it means, what it meant. Because an actual equal society is feminist, because for hundreds of thousands of years Europe was patriarchal. Every man was born equal? Yeah, they meant male men and boys, not the revisionist man as mankind.
@@noahprussia7622 - Even if your message is barely legible, i gather youre trying to equate feminism (ism meaning its an ideology) to equality (a state). Those two have NOTHING in common, and feminism, more than most ideologies, fosters actual inequality (like most offsprings of Marxism tend to do).
@@noahprussia7622 Jesus you both miss the point the girl was trying to make. She didn't label it "femanist" the showrunners and fanbase labeled it such. The girl above was just saying that there is no need to add femanist tropes to the females in the show, because the females in the book are already really strong characers. She is defending Robert Jordans original work.
My wife asked me sweetly to stop watching after she saw my face when rand was learning the sword from the dementia patient. We've been reading the books together since, so theres that
This might sound uber-nerd but my wife and I listen to the audiobook to series we both want to enjoy together. It also allows you to multi-task other stuff for those like me who has to do some take home work at the computer in the evening.
Thank you for so much for calling out Daniel Greene's weak defense of the show; he should be leading the criticism of Rafe's horrible adaptation, but he's pulling his punches.
I was late to watching the live reaction with Dusty Wheel, Daniel Greene and Brandon Sanderson, but what I found odd is that before watching it and later even scanning some of the live chat from it's airing, so many people were saying Sanderson was too weak to criticize the show, he was being too nice and political in his views. Yet when I finally watched it, he was the most critical of the three! Too often both Matt and Daniel were defending the show! Matt was the worst offender though, I lost a lot of respect for him watching that reaction episode!
@@Perry_Wolf i stopped watching his channel after viewing a few of his live reactions. He was loving obvious bullshit. He is giving episodes 9 or 10 which should have been 2 or 3.
Thank goodness! I thought I was alone. I dropped the show 15 min into episode one and couldn't believe people singing its praises. I thought I was losing it.
when you make significant changes to the characters, significant changes to the setting, and significant changes to the plot you end up with something completely different. It is clear that these types of changes are deliberate and intentional, and one must then ask what the purpose for those changes are.
Every time Daniel Greene makes a video about the "Waste of Time" he sounds more like "Please, please! I lobotomized myself for enjoying this poorly written fanfic... Please, don't report my RU-vid channel, don't cancel me!!" Anyway, apparently my time wasn't wasted watching this parody of a saga I like a lot. Thank you for the video.
If people are claiming the Wheel Of Time series is fine, it's absolutely disingenuous. The original novels were slaughtered on the proclaimed "modern audience" altar and the name used as a lure. As happens so often lately. More than twice is enemy action.
I know I'm biased, but I agree. I am unable to see how someone can enjoy this show unless they really are just turning their brain off and letting it play in the background like HGTV
@@gregowen2022 since i didn't watch either, the one good thing i heard of WoT is that is better than Ring of Power. so yeah that not exactly a good thing
Everyone is doing the "Time to diversify my cast(and apparently writers)" thing at the same time. When every major commercial studio decides they need a few black people in every commercial at the same time, it looks more coordinated than it is. It is coordinated, of course, but more like surfers on the same wave than gulls flying to shore. This is the response to #Oscarssowhite, (60% of the population) even if using population as a guide for representation means it should really be #Oscarssojewish (2% of the population) Just let's you know it isn't actually about representation of demographics, but irrational hatred and misplaced rage.
@@gregowen2022 it seems that some folk are unmovable in their desire to be mad. They have decided that there is no other way than the way they like. I agree with you that the show is no where near the books and that’s disappointing, but you could choose to enjoy the fictional story presented to you and be less whiny. Or you could choose to watch with the intention of picking it apart. Everyone has the right to choose how to watch for themselves.
@@kilgoretrout4350 How could you enjoy this story? Even if you forget the books, this is an extremely poorly written story (at best, I'd argue its a conglomeration of random woke concepts without the need for story), with almost no character development and absolutely no point or purpose. It makes the last season of Game of Thrones look a masterpiece.
I don't know anything about this show or the book series it's based on, I just watch these videos in solidarity because of the hundreds of adaptations that have disappointed me in the past. Wheel of Time fans, I see you, I feel your pain.
S1 ... was rough. I kept watching it because *every* *now* *and* *then* there'd be a glimmer of the true Wheel of Time, buried in all the nonsense. I just couldn't bring myself to watch S2 at all, even to hate-watch.
The books are still the same. With the tv show, I can just not watch it, not give it any energy, and it might as well not exist. I just don't care anymore. Let them butcher all the old stuff I liked. I'll just go find new things to like, made by creative, inspired people.
I actually started with the TV show. I watched the first episode, thought it was decent , went and read the 1st book, wondered why they changed some things, then cringed every moment the show continued.
@@qq-wy7zs Did you finish the books? If not, I definitely would, but you will hate the show even more. You could finish the series and then go back to the books, but honestly you'll probably either regret watching the show or reading the books because it shows how bad the Waste of Time series really is.
Dude, you’re the reason I am glad I paid for a premium, RU-vid subscription. Your dialogue and the way you describe things, sounds like more of an intelligent discourse and script than most people could sit down and put together over the course of weeks. Love your content and always look forward to a new video.
Perrin also hates the axe because when he, Elyas and Egwene were being chased by the crows and thought they were going to be caught and painfully ripped to pieces by them, Perrin came to the decision that if that happened he would kill Egwene with the axe. He felt sick afterwards because he knew he would follow through with that decision if it came to it. And that terrified him
I find it funny that they went out of their way to put in a character to teach Rand how to use the sword, then when it came time for his to actually use the sword, he didn't do it and the excuse was he hadn't been trained. Brilliant!
The excuses are legendary for this one. Rafe says he didn’t want to do the fight in the sky because “we’ve been seeing that so much lately”. Did I miss something? When did sword fights in the sky become an overused trope?
it has been more than a decade that i read the first book but wasn't part of it. His father taught him something, the ancient ghost that talk to him in his head. That mad one that kill his entire family taught him a few things.?
I think he's referring to the big skyportal fight trope ala. Marvel movies but the fight at Falme was so different it definitely wouldn't count. It had a deep fairy tale vibe to it with the strength of the armies below varying with the ebb and flow of the swordfight. Mystical is a good word for it. Same goes for the end of EotW. The show has a bland lack of mysticality.
We may get Rand and Lan training in season 3 based on links, these videos whine about the issues without looking for what has been confirmed or rumoured to happen next. Season 3 is going to be with a focus on Rand, Matt and Perrin as stated by Rafe and the other writers and producers.
The reason adaptations like this fail is that Hollywood bureaucrats don't realize they are not as good at storytelling as the original author. Tolkien, Heinlein, Rowling, Burroughs, Herbert, they succeeded because the stories were told so effectively. I'm not even a Robert Jordan fan: But he sold hugely because he was telling the story well, for those fans.
@@mateuszmierzejewski1355 Every other than which one? The only one I found poorly written was the last, Deathly Hallows. Before that, she seemed to have been writing each book with increasing sophistication, perhaps on the theory that her readers were progressively a year older and more able to handle it. She's no Tolkien, but appears quite competent.
It's worse than that in the case of Jordan and Heinlein. The people chosen for the adaptation of those two author's works *actively* *disliked* the themes of the source material, and wanted to make a new story to replace the original.
@@hoi-polloi1863 I will never understand why projects are given to people on the basis of their desire to actively destroy the IP. It seems like a really bad business plan.
Agreed. And Hollywood acts surprised every time. “We packed this thing with the name of something popular but changed it’s core and now those toxic fans are mad again. What is their problem?”
This adaptation is a catastrophic failure. I’ve read this series 3 times. And I couldn’t be happier that they were finally going to make a show. Imagine my surprise when I watched the first couple of episodes and didn’t even recognize what I was watching 😡. I stopped after episode 3. Just terrible
One of the running themes (there are lots) throughout the series is the relationship between fathers and sons. All three main characters (Rand, Mat, and Perrin) learn significant lessons from their respective fathers (or father figure in the form of master blacksmith Luhhan for Perrin). These lessons provide the keys to their eventual success and triumph at the end. Mat's father, in particular, is one of the most respected men in the the Two Rivers. Abell Cauthon is a successful horse trader, honest as the day is long. He's equally as good a judge of people as he is of horse flesh. He's also the only man in Emond's Field that can outshoot Tam Al'Thor with a bow or outfight him with a quarterstaff. Genuine stone cold badass. Mat has tremendous love and respect for his father and it shows throughout the books. They destroyed Abell Cauthon's character in the very first episode of the show just to make a point--the father and son relationship is worthless, of less than no value.
It's been a while since I've read the series from.the beginning. Thank you for the refresher. I just watched Season 1 last night with much lip biting. I didn't remember anything about Matt's father truthfully. They truly bastardized the whole story.
What? They completely disappear after the first few chapters of the first book, are down to a one henpecked weaklings who are wrong about everything they ever say, and only Rand's father is allowed to finally do something useful for his son when Sanderson took over.
The Wheel of Time is based on Norse and Arthurian mythology. Any adaptation which doesn't understand this is doomed to fail. Rand is King Arthur Pendragon, the Once and Future King. The Aes Sedai are the Aesir, living in an impregnable city built by giants. Tar Valon is Avalon, home of the three witches (Nynaeve, Egwene and Elayne? or Min, Aviendha and Elayne?) who take the fallen King Arthur to convalesce until his eventual return. The Amyrlin Seat is Merlin, advisor and mentor to King Arthur. Moiraine is combination Morgan le Fay/Merlin. Lan is Lancelot du Lac as played by Clint Eastwood. Nynaeve is Nimue/Lady of the Lake, who is even called Nynyve in Malory's Le Morte d'Arthur. Egwene is a sorta/kinda Guinevere in the early part of the story, probably combined with Elaine of Corbenic, daughter of the Fisher King and bearer of the Holy Grail. Elayne is a more final-form Guinevere, with Caemlyn as Camelot. Mat is a combination of Odin, god of battles, and Loki, god of mischief, and is appropriately married to Tuon, who is herself both Luck (Fortuona) and Death (Tuoni, Finnish goddess of death). Perrin is Perun, the Slavic equivalent of Thor and a werewolf. Galad is Galahad. Gawyn is Gawain. And these are just the major characters. But it is likely that the writers/showrunner of this series know little to nothing of either Norse or Arthurian myth. They certainly don't seem to understand much about storytelling.
Matt is my all time favorite WoT character. I tried watching season 1 and was gutted at what they did to him and his family in the show. I haven’t even tried to watch season 2
Don’t watch it, it just gets worse for him. He’s a crap bag the whole way through until the last 20 minutes when he blows the horn. He is a good guy for about 2 minutes total. It’s awful
Matt is also my favorite of all the WoT characters. He brings joy and playfulness to the somewhat dark undertone of the books. I hated what they did to him in the series. He got the worst of it. Sad really.
This is the reason I quit watching DG's channel. I have no interest in watching someone's STUPID opinion... Or one that was bought-and-paid-for... Or one which is delusional. Whatever his own reason, I no longer value his opinion, so I no longer watch his channel.
You only need to watch the first minute of episode one to know it would be terrible. Small extremely diverse village is one of the dumbest things I've ever seen.
Doubly so when you remember that the people from these small villages tend to have a distinct look about them, to the point they'd stand out if they went to another village. It's why Rand was so noteworthy because he quite clearly looks like he's not from anywhere NEAR those villages.
Yeah... but if you notice that, you must be a you-know-what-ist. Because you have eyes that work... aren't blind. Strange. One would think that most people who, uh, WATCH TV... probably aren't blind.
@@Mongoosesummoner It also makes each location less distinct and less special. I'm going through the books again, on Audible specifically, the ones narrated by Kate Reading and Michael Kramer cause fuck everything to do with this rafing. When you first go to the white tower there's this emphasis on just how diverse the people in town are. Because other places are mostly populated by the people that live there, because unless you can sail there you're probably not gonna find an incredibly wide variety of people in any given place. CAUSE THIS ISN'T THE MODERN WORLD! But it's current year, and EVERY fantasy needs to reflect the world we live in now.
I always suspected that people turned on diversity in any age and place are a bit...A bit special. I want them to be diverse. I do not care about history or realism. My villagers have to be diverse. I do not care what you say because you are jus ta racists, diversity is our strength. They are stuck in this idea. Do they feel brave knowing people will critic them? Perhaps they dream of crucifixion where they will die of criticism forgiving cruel evil jews (that is us). The industry is sinking in these cretins. And they are given these possibilities by other cretins who allow them to flush millions of dollars on this garbage. And on top black rock, the abominable tyrant who keep everyone in fear to make sure they follow these atrocious rules.
It is very cathartic to see someone review and call out this show in an insightful, intelligent, well-structured and well-organized manner. I have not watched the show and have zero interest in ever doing so, but I've heard enough about the things that have been changed to know I would never want to watch it. When I saw the early trailers I knew this was not going to be a faithful adaptation. From the moment in the trailer where Moiraine says something about "One of you is the Dragon Reborn" or something like that, implying that maybe Egwene or Nynaeve could be the Dragon, despite that completely going against how the prophecy of the Dragon and the whole lore of the story work, I knew this story was fucked. Not that I think a faithful adaptation of this story would even be possible. Wheel of Time is HUGE!!! Fucking HUGE!!! There is just no way I could see that story, and more importantly that world adapted to the screen. WOT is a divisive story even among fans of fantasy stories and one of the most common criticisms I read of the books is that it's bloated and takes forever for the plot to advance at times. But in my opinion, the strength of the books is that bloat, the fact that Jordan created a world and let the reader LIVE in that world. So yes, we spend lots of timing reading about Rand and his friends hanging out at the Broken Knuckles inn and watching the bar maid clean the table and descriptions of the fine clothes the wealthy nobles wear, and the way their hair is styled and the different accents of the Taraboners vs the Illians, and the and so on and so on because Jordan is creating a world. That level of detail was never going to be replicated for a television show, no chance at all.
And all that world building bloat - should have made for a perfect adaptation. All they had to do was follow the books for a hugely successful series. Jordan handed them everything they needed. All the minutiae. Every detail. From hemlines and fabric to the stones and spires of monumental buildings. Having a visual medium portray it accurately would have been amazing - and since we wouldn't have to READ through all the detail, and months of walking and nothing happening EXCEPT the world building - it would make a much tighter story. Such a wasted opportunity by a guy that just wanted to make it his vision and story (being generous - I think he just wanted to bank millions and destroy it) instead of honoring the author.
As far as Season 3 goes, we've heard that it will follow Book 4 but I think we can safely say by now that there might be a handful of scenes that closely match the books with the rest made up. Because that's what we've had so far. It's so strange (and damning) that this adaptation has actively changed every single detail from the books. Not even clothing or jewellery or weapons are made to match the books. They must have spent more time and more money to change something than to just read something and make it as is written.
Rosamund Pike is the only actor that is also a producer on the show, no wonder she used her producer power to make herself the main character. While the actual main character of the books, Rand, got relegated to a supporting character that does nothing and waits around in the first 2 seasons.
THANK YOU, thank you, thank you for putting together this calm, collected, and well thought out explanation as to why this show is objectively garbage and logically dismantling all the excuses being made for it. The show is disgraceful and insulting to the creator of the story as well as the fans of the story. This amount of disrespect does not deserve to be forgotten about, it deserves to be pointed out and ridiculed so that it is not allowed to happen again.
Thank you for being a well read, well spoken critic. I follow other channels that can be... let's say... venomous at times. I always say in a debate/discussion that when you use cuss words or insults you lose the high ground. Keep the high ground.
I was annoyed with what they did, but I decided to give it a chance to stand on its own, then they did what they did to Matt. Turning Matt into someone who would abandon his friends was a bridge too far for me. In the books he's a trouble maker and scoundrel, but at his core he is a very dedicated and fiercely loyal friend. For all that he wears the role of the useless vagabond, thief, gambler, and rogue, when the chips are down he will always be the first to stand by a friend in trouble. When they had him walk away I swore off the series
"No man may walk so long in the shadow he can not return to the light" one of the greatest lines and moments in the entirety of the series. And the show just ignored it completely
I started reading this series way back when The Great Hunt was released. In fact, I started with that book and somehow didn't realise I was starting with the second in the series. Lol. At any rate, The Wheel of Time has grown to be my favorite book series -not just fantasy, but series of novels, period - of all time, and the way that Rafe Judkins has treated this story and the characters that I have loved for so long, is just unforgivable. This is what happens when you give activists jobs writing screen plays. When they are in the writers room, they tend to be activists first and screen writers second and, just like season 2 of The Witcher, it definitely shows in the case of The Wheel of Time.
I love the books, it's sad to watch them getting butchered like this...This seems to be a general problem with the writers of every show based on books...they are so presumptuous, thinking they can write a better story than the real writer who made those books great...that's just ubris...the books are great because the original writers were actually capable of writing good stories, changing parts of a story it's like changing parts of a starry dish recipe...you will not have the same dish cause the new cooks are not good enogh chefs.
I think the millenial writers also genuinely find a story like WoT to be stuffy and problematic. I think they genuinely think they're doing society a big service by adding mary sues everywhere and demasculating men. They read a book written in the 80's and telling a story from a different world and a different time and what do they see first and foremost? Problematic social issues, unfair power structures and so on. They see a chance to improve the world by rewriting bigoted stories and correcting misguided fans. I really do believe these writers and producers are this delutional.
"the showrunners understand Perrin the least" - That's easy. Perrin (maybe besides Lan) has the most positive masculine traits of the cast. no wonder they don't understand him.
That's an excellent point. It's like they almost want to bring him down. If the show ever gets far enough, I can only imagine how they'll butcher his relationship with Faile
Idk if Lan is exactly a positive masculine character but Perrin definitely is. At least Lan isn't at the beginning of the story, he's cold, distant, and doesn't see any kind of life for himself except to avenge his people, but later learns to love thanks to nynaeve
He's a positive figure because of his growth and the fact that even in his darkest points, he never let go of the duty he had to the Emonsfield Five and the ultimate goal of fighting back the darkness. I'm the beginning he's very self reliant to the point of almost being a flaw, but later on becomes far more open to accepting help. He displays the best and worst aspects of Stoicism and demonstrate how a person avoids the pit falls. At least from what I took from his development in the books.
Lan is a positive male character but he is still just a man. This means he will have peaks and valleys like everyone else. Men even good men are flawed.
One telling aspect about all the changes to the characters is - who they've chosen to change & butcher and who they've changed & empowered; with Rand, Mat & Perrin, they've all been butchered & lessened in many ways to the point that Rand is a side character, Mat was changed from a loveable rogue to a thieving scumbag & Perrin is just meh. Compare that to Egwene whose only real change is to make her more awesome or Liandrian who was pointlessly humanised. At the end of both seasons now we've been promised that next season they'll get things back on track & start developing Rand as a character, but there's simply no reason to trust them, certainly not after all the showrunner has said about his plans or his reaction to criticism.
Saw the cast list, and knew how and why they selected their cast. I never bothered to watch, and I’m glad. The reviews I’ve seen, and the brief clips told me all I needed to know. Glad I have the books.
Good call. I got suckered into watching two or three episodes. Figured out pretty quickly how bad it was going to get, though. They won't stop doing this until people stop watching. He talked about how he forced himself to watch... WHY?!? He must be getting paid a lot to make these videos or something...
The best scene so far is the battle between Rand's mother right before she gives birth on Dragonmount, and some soldiers. That is a fantastic scene. The whole series could've been that good in the right hands.
But just think about a bunch of men trying to kill a pregnant woman how is in labor. And Tam was one of them, maybe i forgot. Why would they do that? The scene is cool, but doesn't make sense.
@@Nava9380 My memory is foggy, but it is explained in the book. I think the Aiel had crossed over the mountains seeking revenge for an injustice against them.
@@Nava9380From what I recall, the Aiel crossed over in retaliation to the offense given when someone destroyed a gifted sapling/tree of some lore importance I can’t recall. Some time after the battle Tam finds Rands mother bleeding out on the mountain slopes and makes a promise to raise him. As for the whole pregnant lady in battle I can’t remember why but I recall some reason was given at some point. I remember a trend towards strong female spear warriors for the Aiel as a whole
I so wanted to love this show, but I lasted as long as the end of the first episode of season one. My better half - who has also read (and loves) the books - lasted less than half an hour. Game of Thrones was translated excellently from the books to the screen, up until GRRM couldn't be arsed to finish the story. The writers (yeah, right) of the tv series didn't have the ability to conclude it properly which is how we ended up with the final season. Why Hollywoke writers think they are better than the guy(s) who wrote the WoT books is delusional and breathtakingly stupid. I'm still surprised that season two was made, season three will have to conclude the story very quickly in order to squeeze it into three seasons, because I can't see that there will be any more!
Mat is my favorite character. Of all the characters they assassinated in this travesty of a show, his hurt the most. I think the best part about the comparison between Mat and Siuane's uncle is that it's proven 100% accurate by a story Nynaeve tells later in the books. Mat saw a kid "drowning" in Emond's Field. He _IMMEDIATELY_ jumped into the pond and "saved" the kid. Afterwards, he found out the kid was just goofing off, and everyone mocked him mercilessly for months afterwards, and during that time, he swears loudly and often that he'll never save anyone from drowning again. The following year, he sees someone actually drowning, and he doesn't even hesitate to _IMMEDIATELY_ dive in and save that person. The second time, the person was legitimately drowning, and the people in Emond's Field stopped teasing him about his actions. He constantly swears he isn't a hero and doesn't want to be a hero (those bloody fools always end up killed)...and is the most heroic character in the entire series.
They made his parents drunk poor child abusers. Let's stop and look at that. We're told, constantly, that his parents are among the most well respected and loving parents of any of the Emond's Fielders, with his father being the absolute best horse seller in the Two Rivers. And they turn them....into...**that**...
Don’t feel guilty. Maybe I’m one of the few people who never read the books, but it doesn’t matter. The show just sucks. In fact, it made me think the books must be horrible, and even that Brandon Sanderson must be as well (only now looking at reading fantasy). So, this is not about enjoying an alternate universe or some such adaptation drivel; it’s about a damn bad series that should not be continued.
"Bait and switch" seems to be standard practice in Hollywood these days. That's why, when I heard this series was being made, I read the books instead.
My wife read at least one of these books (I didn't ask how many) she doesn't get bothered by much and can enjoy just about anything she might like. She tried to get me to watch this with her. I made it about 30min and she quit after about 2 episodes and started rewatching Gossip Girl 😂
I was so excited when I heard they were going to make this show. When I saw the first episode, I was done. The final nail was seeing the Myrddraal. The look of the eyeless is terrible.
To this day I am not allowed to leave reviews anywhere on Amazon for any product due to my "suspicious activity." (Direct quote from Amazon). I have left exactly two reviews in my life on Amazon. One for WoT, the other for RoP. Both respectfully, but unflinchingly flaying apart the post modern deconstruction of the original works of art. My reviews were instantly deleted and I was exiled. Though strangely enough, Amazon seems to have no trouble continuing to take my money for other products.
I've seen quite a number of youtube videos correctly criticizing the amazon's version, including Knight's watch, Salty Texas, sword and pen reflection, etc. They even broke down episode by episode analysis. But, in a single video, yours is by far the most complete and accurate analysis. And you have shown great knowledge and understanding of the books, original story and plots, and characters. Well done! And thanks for speaking out!
😂😂😂 Those videos are all clickbait and rage. They are fake wikipedia level fans who have made errors and not looked into the future of the plans for the show in season 3 because the shows plans for that season includes some of the things they want to happens or so they claim, but if they don't report that then they have less to constantly whine about.
When I heard they were going to make a series of this book series, I was so freaking stoked. When I was the first episode, I was so disappointed that I didn't watch any more of it because I saw from the first, they were not going to honor the source material and butcher the hell out of the Late and Great Robert Jordan's writings of this outstanding world he created. It is a shame they didn't do the books justice and they should have just called the bloody show, Patterns In the Wheel.
It's clear to me that you read and enjoyed the original books immensely, like I did. Unlike me, you actually powered past the first couple of episodes. The deal-breaker for me was giving Perrin a wife. I knew that they would go one of two directions: replace Faile with this wife, or immediately kill off the wife. I suspected the were going to kill off the wife, but that presented two more choices that were both horrible: waste a bunch of time dwelling on the death, padding out a story that was already longer than it needed to be, or have Perrin completely forget about the death, effectively making him into a heartless psychopath. I didn't want to see where the story was going to go after that.
Luckily, I have managed to know nothing of wheel of time before starting the books. I just finished the great hunt after starting about a month ago and have all 15 ordered... burning through them! LOVE IT! Won't watch the show lol
I’ve literally never been more enraged at a TV series in my life! It was actually kind of hard to find a negative review of the show on RU-vid. Thank you so much.
I went between rage and depression. So many pointless changes and additions. Warders sad af, Matt a scumbag and pointless sex scenes and new magic mirrors. Moraine didn't need to be a lesbian, she ends up marrying Thom ffs. Perrin being married and then killer.
Just finished re-reading "New Spring" the prequel novel (novella?) to the Wheel of Time and wow I'd forgotten how REAL the world feels, and how grounded all the characters are in the customs of that world. And Sanderson's comments remind me of something; George Lucas and Steven Spielberg used new and innovative visual effects to ENHANCE their stories, then, sometime in the mid 2000s, Hollywood realised they could could keep the visual effects, ditch the story and still keep the money rolling in. For example, in the words of my brother: "I knew Avatar 2 was a pretty screensaver, that's why I went and saw it". This show, and RoP, and MCU phases 4 onwards - all pretty spectacle, no substance. If we're being REALLY critical we'll use the description The Little Platoon gave to Avatar 2: "The Feelies" - named after the emotion-inducing emptiness from "Brave New World".
When this was called a “feminist show” they committed an error that has become epidemic in modern media. They were committed to feminism as parody. It’s what happens when you don’t think complex ideas all the way through, which happens when people express views they pretend to hold. This is behind things like race swapping. No one bothers to think through what the consequences are when those products fail or is used to literally divide audiences between desirables and deplorables. When you don’t have a connection to the well thought out ethics that lay under the surface of all powerful ideas then creators are only able to represent those ideas as a performance of values because all they’re equipped to handle is a signal response of what tribe they belong to. Great video Greg!!!
Is it a parody? Or is it the "real face" of it? The narrative, from a loud part of that group, that "men are useless" dates back to at least 1973. (Re: bicycles and fish) The show is true to that narrative... not a parody.
@@Nyet-Zdyes It’s unintentional parody. It’s always tempting to assume that the good faith version of ideologies we don’t like are reducible to their dumbest application when the dumbest application is nothing more than the Dunning Krueger effect, which is what creates the unintentional parody. I’ll use CRT as an example. I hate CRT. My reading of the primary sources is that it’s civil rights as designed by southern segregationists, but there is a world of difference between the person who is familiar w/ the actual theory and still supports it, and a mindless leftist who barks and cries at anything that seems as if it fits w/i a theory that they only pretend to understand. That person has become a parody of an idea. To be clear when I call something a parody I intend it as an absolute insult. I’m calling that person an idiot who doesn’t even understand what they claim to believe:lemmings all of them. Going back to feminism, no one besides religious fundamentalists and neo nazis want to go back to a time before 1st (woman’s suffrage) and early 2nd wave feminism (basic autonomy). A parody doesn’t know when to stop so they take things to they’re irrational conclusion, so the parody is not showing you who feminists are at their core. They’re showing you the danger of an idea unmoored from rational thinking. Sorry I wrote so much.
@@Nyet-Zdyes one more thing! The parody is the real face of it in so far that the people who are currently pushing this nonsense the loudest are nothing more than empty headed tribal signifiers. It’s more about showing how dedicated one is to the cause. In this case that show of dedication was used in pursuit of ruining one of my favorite book series. So again, I’m not letting anyone of the hook or using kids gloves.
Also of note, modern feminism is radically different than the other forms of feminism, which I mentioned above, but the feminist label is used as if they were the same thing (I would love to hear Susan B Anthony’s opinion on the end point of a movement she helped start), so when RAFE says feminism it’s coded as those much more popular things rather than the simp man hating present in the Wheel of Time. This means things like feminism doesn’t have one true face, and people, like Rafe, exploit that (until someone like Rachael Ziegler says the quiet part out loud and the product tanks).
@@Eggasalad Okay... So, the Wheel of Prime can be called a parody of Wheel of Time because it's a ridiculous imitation, Webster's 2nd definition of "parody". IMO, it falls short of the 1st definition, because it's not (IMO) INTENTIONALLY ridiculing the Wheel of Time. Parody most commonly is for comedic effect... and there's nothing funny about Wheel of Prime. Likewise, 'caricature' would also be misleading. Subversion, or perversion, would be more accurate terms.
"When are we going to admit this is a failed adaptation?" I admitted it when I learned about the casting. Literally told me everything I needed to know of how this would go.
One correction from me - I haven't read any of the books, nor watched any of the show. So, the reason I'm watching this video isn't because of the that, it is for the fire Greg memes, pro youtube moves, and editing jokes. 👍
The only credit I give to the Amazon series is that it finally pushed my to finally read the books. I was mid season 1 when someone told me to better start with the books. I read the first book and then watched the rest of season 1. I was so disappointed with Amazon that I didn't watch season 2. Very similar thing happened with Apple's Fundation.
Any "Fan" of the WoT that says they like the show isn't actually a fan. The only thing the show has in common with the books is the names of people and places. People love the WoT because it is the way it is. If literally everything but the names change, why would you like it? It seems to me that such people are either clapping seals with no standards whom should be ignored utterly. Or actively trying to subvert and destroy what we love, in which case we need to weed such people out of the fandom with a passion
I used to finish a book and say "Man, I wish they would make that a movie". Now i finish a book and say "Dear Lord, please don't let them make a movie"!
Great review. It is nice to hear someone who has read and understands the books well. I'm pretty tired of the people making videos defending or praising the series. It is indefensible. If someone really invested time to read and savor the story in the books they should be offended by the treatment given to the story. There should be backlash and a call for someone else to be given the rights who would do it right.
I started the tv serries first and thought wow how can this be so bad. People have said the books where so good. How can this be! Then I bought the books...... wow books are so much better The tv series is not even the same world. The TV serries is not the WOT.
If nothing else your vids are inspiring me to pick up the books again and actually finish them this time. I bailed around 7 or 8 years ago and haven't gone back, but the reminders of how _awesome_ the series could be at times is tempting me.
Please go back and finish the story! Mr Jordan and Mr Sanderson worked so very hard to give this story a beautiful last act. There’s so many messages in there for us to reflect on too.
Sanderson does a great job of finishing what Jordan started. Jordan also wrote some really good Conan books. the slog is WoT is a little brutal though. was hoping to see a TV adaptation of Jordan's work. maybe 1 day someone will do a show that follows the books. making Emond's Field=Manhattan was so great as well as Moiraine shooting off fireworks to announce who/what she was. NOT.
I mean if you enjoy hate watching it’s a roaring success. Matt was my favorite character in the series not just for personality but I love the idea of Luck as a magical power and that’s Matt’s. He can pull off miracles but also wind up tied up when an assassin comes calling.
I was waiting for rand to just die and to hear "i have won again lews therin" and start all over. I want so much more, and its given me some things ive like. Only character changes i liked were to the forsaken tbh. Speeding up ishys story line was better for screen, and lanfear being a bit more spicy. that was about it.
Lanfear being "more spicy" is inextricably linked to making Rand her boy-toy. No, it's not an improvement. Once again, they also screwed up the casting, for the simple reason that the actress (like Min) is too old... by about 10 years. They should have gotten actresses in their early to mid-twenties... not mid-thirties.
I canceled my Prime account because I was so pissed off how they changed this from the source material. The source material sold millions for a reason. Hollywood hacks are so arrogant that they think they are better writers than the original author.
Kind of a spoiler for book 2, a bit of a correction. Rand isn't actually the one who activated the portal stone at the camp. He THINKS he did it, but we learn later this can't be the case. You can't channel in your sleep, there's no way Rand would be able to channel himself and 2 other people PLUS their horses into a mirror world in his sleep. It's actually pointedly shown Rand is NOT strong enough to do that yet, not unless he REALLY pushes himself. It was actually SELENE that did it. She wanted Rand mostly alone, and handling 3 people was way easier than a small army. She brought them to the mirror world. She's been following Rand for a while now, and she's a much more skilled channeler than he is. It's ALMOST like a competent writer made this story.
You can channel in your sleep, but only spirit. This is how several of the dream ter-angreal work. We have no idea if spirit alone can activate a portal stone though.
@@thorinpalladino2826 Yes, but that's the exception, and you need to channel BEFORE you go to sleep. I can't recall a single solitary instance of someone STARTING to channel from embracing the power to weaving the flows ALL while asleep. The stones take a lot of power to use as well, and Rand when he first AND second uses one is NOT very powerful, AND it's insanely unlikely he'd use one so perfectly IN HIS SLEEP. Meanwhile, there's a scene explicitly showing Lanfear is RIGHT THERE when the stone is activated, literally standing over Rand while he's asleep. She has also been following him for some time now, potentially since he leaves Falme or even before that. Also, it is NEVER specified if there's a specific element that needs to be used for the stones, it seems to just be a matter of general strength, not Spirit in particular. These aren't even Ter'Angreal, they're NEVER described as such, even by Aes Sedai, and they're from BEFORE even the Age of Legends. The power can operate them, but nobody knows anything else about them. The only way it's described as them working is just channeling a ton of the power into specific symbols, not channeling Spirit into anything. We see it used enough if Robert Jordan had intended for Spirit to be needed, he'd have mentioned it, at least vaguely.
Yep, they did book fans a favor putting that line in so early. It was immediate confirmation that things were going south and permission to just turn it off.
I have thought a lot about adapting books to screen for a couple months now. More so in relation to ‘Foundation’ than ‘Wheel of Time’ because that’s the one I read. The ‘Foundation’ book and show have almost nothing in common, the two Hardens and the two Dornicks have way more differences than just gender. Still I have enjoyed both on the merits that each brings. On some level it is kind of fun seeing where this new ‘Foundation’ is going because the Second Foundation for example is very much on the wrong planet, so what is going to happen with this one? The Mule also seems to be taking massive changes, Harden has visions of a physically imposing man, not a sad clown.
Wheel of Time is sadly just one of many cases of writers thinking they can do better than the original author and showing their blatant disrespect to the source material.
I had to stop halfway through this video because it did something the t v series could not... It inspired me to want to read the books. So I stopped listening so I wouldn't get any more spoilers. Keep up the amazing work dude!
I tried getting into the Wheel of Time 3 or 4 times, but i could never get past the second book. Actually i could never finish the second book. It wasn't bad (like everything i ever read by Adrian Tchaikovsky has been), it just didn't grab me enough to continue. …The takeaway i get from this review is that any thought of maybe watching the show in the hope that it might motivate me to give the books another attempt to be a fool's errand.
I thought I was the only one who noticed that; Adrian Tchaikovsky starts with good ideas, then slowly and quietly murders them, gently lays them in their grave, and then takes three days to half-fill the grave in, never finishing... in a literary sense.
You will be doing the author a MASSIVE disservice if you watch the show to get the story. (Better to skip the whole thing entirely.) It's a HUGE story with a TON of description. If you want to get into the story, I'd say, give yourself permission to skip a lot of the large swaths of description. I know I'm a huge fan, and I did on occasion. Just never skip dialogue.
fun fact, it was originally going to be eye of the world, then the publisher had him change the end, then he was going to close with the great hunt, after that he said fine. "last chapter is going to be a million words" not an actual quote.
Robert Jordan wrote the best characters I've read in fiction. I say this because my understanding of them changed as a grew from my teen years to middle age. This is a very rare experience. I think the show had the talent to make that happen, but not the direction or writing.
