I think being pretentious is more associated with an attitude of looking down on others. It’s fine to like a niche thing, but if you think you’re better than others and laud it over them then you would rightfully be called ‘pretentious’ in a pejorative sense.
I agree! Although sometimes people will talk about stuff they enjoy, and contrast it with things trying to do that, and it may be off putting to some. i.e, someone might use a shaky-cam action movie to contrast with a well shot and choreographed action movie if you like the movie that is being criticized, chances are you'll get pissed, even though it's not about the persons discussing, but the objects being discussed. I find that most times calling someone "pretentious" happens in situations like these (anedoctal, i guess) And that's fair! It's usually the point to reavalute the discussion and both parts can explain themselves better
i'd argue that being pretentious is doing sometihng "higher" for the sole purpose of using it to look down on others and seperate yourself from the proles below you
Makes sense! In portuguese, we would probably use "pedant" for these sort of things, and pretentious is more neutral. It can be use as a insult - I've done it myself- but it's not as common!
And I think there"s nothing wrong in considering yourself better than others ! Hey, I myself admit that I think that way. And I have this friend of mine in Geneva, he's fucking brilliant, and talented and all, and we get along very well, but we do have this rivalry, this conviction that one is better than the other, and that only pushes us forward, and improves our art. And many artists have clained a similar feeling : if you don't believe you're the best, you won't ever be the best. Impossible. Nietzsche was a great defender of this idea of rivalry, achievment, grandiosity and elevation : das Übermensch ! And he would also say, in Thus Spoke Zarathoustra, that a great friend has to be a great enemy. How fucking beautiful. So yeah, let's stop with the 'pretentious' qualification : let's live !
Whats frustrating for me is that I always considered pretention to be a mix of "snobbiness" and "arrogance." For me it was always how you feel about yourself vs others. My friends warned me I could at times be pretentious, so I asked them how, and they were like "oh, well you like 19th century literature and classical music" or something (those are just two things I enjoy, I also enjoy sci-fi/fantasy and hip hop lol) but I've never considered myself BETTER than others just bc I like reading old ass books. Its just a hobby, its really not that deep. Yet when people said that kinda thing I just felt like there was a self-pretention, where people think themselves higher than someone else because they DONT read old books or something. Its weird.
Yup, there's a difference between trying to put yourself on a pedestal vs other people putting you on a pedestal. Some people just have low self worth, and anything you do they will interpret as you trying to be better then them, even though it has nothing to do with you, and everything to do with them/their own view of themselves in relation to the world 🤷♀️
The question is what is the pretense they are referring to? A “pretense” is a real meter of measuring subjectivity. People don’t understand the basic meaning of the word “pretentious”..and that is very revealing about a lack of critical thinking that generally pervades society. The pretense you are accusing them of is that they subjectively think you must be a snob for reading older literature. The pretense they are accusing you of (according to your description) is that you subjectively must think you are superior to them in order to even be interested in your books. People assume the word pretentious means snobby, haughty, or classist, ..something to that affect…but they are using a pre-loaded, negative pretense, when they misuse this term “pretentious”. Because by natural definition it is an objective word, not subjective. As a famous former President once said: “SAD!”
I’d argue there’s a large difference between pretentiousness and snobbiness. Where pretentiousness is someone wanting to become more than they are by ‘pretending’ (which I don’t think is a bad thing at all, I think it’s really the only way to become more than you are), snobbiness is the looking down on those who are tying to climb. Snobbiness is trying to prevent people from class- or social-climbing because of class stigmas - “you don’t belong here”. Pretentiousness is simply wanting to climb. But snobbiness also reveals an insecurity in the snobby person, because they want to keep their supposed advantage to themself and are afraid of others climbing up to them and then continuing on past them
This is pretty much the issue for me. What they don't see is that if you are on the look out for pretension in your misused sense, it closes off a lot of things from you mentally. If you find yourself thinking you shouldn't do something because it's pretentious. you've already lost. Also the people that use it just to berate you for bringing up something that isn't gossip or sports or whatever.
I think pretension, at least in the layman's understanding, is more about affectation than anything else. People associate the word more with an air of hautiness and self-aggrandisement than with the sort of foundationalistic aspects of art to which you refer.
?... the video is saying that hautiness and self-aggrandisement is important. Confidence is important for creative people because you really have to believe in your vision for it to stand a chance of coming to fruition.
@@chaunceyfauntleroymontgome3535 I've definitely often heard it said to undermine someone or something that's simply beyond the scope of the person labeling it "pretentious", as this video malignes. But I agree that there does definitely exist a real sort of pretentiousness where someone is actually pretending to be someone they're not in a haughty, cringe inducing, full of themselves way. And I think "pretentious" is a totally valid word to describe a person or thing like that.
Honestly I don't think that those two slogans match very well. The reason why people put so much value on cringe is because people who are pretentious want to come off as cool.
@@floreroafloreril1458 Honestly, still some of the best advice I've received on the internet. Not caring about cringe and doing what you want anyway is so liberating that I seriously contribute almost all of my recent growth into finding out who I am to this one silly internet meme.
This isn't really what 'pretentious' means, it's more how it is misused. 'Pretentious' actually refers to pretending to like something to be associated with the status, rather than genuine interest in that thing. Those people quickly give themselves away.
But what about the others? those who are called pretentious and "give themselves away" all their lives just to be hailed as masterminds years or decades after their deaths. The word is being misinterpreted of course, but the message of the video is that those who ignore social adversity and focus on their own ambition can rise up against their opposants with their actions or creations and change the perceptions of many, driving humanity foward.
Good point. I guess true pretention is when a karen goes into a store thinking she's steps up above a manager or store owner. Or when someone does art for the clout of art rather than the craft. It all depends on attitude and intention, I guess.
@@sydlawson3181 it does to an extent, at the start it mentioned pretentious as many different words, like arrogant. You and the others commenting about this are right, no doubt. I followed the video almost replacing the word pretentious with arrogancy. That is why I got a different message out of it. Maybe im digging too deep.
I often get accused of being pretentious, and it used to astound me because I wouldn't see myself as being pretentious at all. I now recognize that people just can't imagine me genuinely liking and being interested in these things for the things in of themselves, so they assume I have some sort of social motive for the way I dress, behave, et cetera.
I think the difference is that some people actually try to do creative things, while others only pretend to, but we don't necessarily see the difference at a glance
My ex' sister went to a private art school and acted like hot shit because 1) she got into the school 2) She graduated top of her class. She'd put you don't for going to school for not art, and would brag about how smart she is. I consider her pretentious. She did end up eating her words a few years later because her and her ex girlfriend can't get jobs with their degrees and spend $40,000 a year for schooling that isn't helping their careers.
@@Musical_Pigeon the best artists i know don't even rely on their degree or dropped out lmao. they truly care more about your skill and experience too so it's still fucking useless to graduate without having learned shit
Pretentiousness isn't *just* ambition, or even just ambition without sufficient talent. It's ambition *without counterbalancing humility*. Someone trying to elevate their standard of living or push the limits of an art form or idea is not pretentious. Refusing to acknowledge when such an attempt has failed, and/or lording such an attempt over your peers as if your newfound interest or novel creation makes you better than them is. "I've been getting into trying fine wines lately. I've found some really good stuff, you should try it with me sometime!" - Not pretentious "I've been getting into trying fine wines lately. I feel it adds a certain classiness to my evening, you should try it sometime instead of that piss-water you're always swilling." - Pretentious
This video makes several MASSIVE logical leaps that no one down here has pointed out yet as far as I can tell. 1.) “Pretentious” doesn’t mean “You like something that I don’t like, so you’re bad!” It could not be reasonably applied to hip-hop artists sampling Kraftwerk. Even if their music hadn’t succeeded, they wouldn’t have been called pretentious by anyone, because that would require there to still be a niche crowd that DID like the music. 2.) Humanity’s greatest inventions are not brought about by pretentious people. You just said that, and gave no proof of it at all because you were operating under a private definition of the word “pretentious” that would fit those people. I can’t say for certain which great historical inventors were or weren’t pretentious, but I know that the word most certainly wouldn’t be applied to the teams of government funded researchers who have been responsible for many of our major technological advancements over the past 200 years. Also, the existence of shelter is not owed to a SINGLE Neanderthal who went out and built a house one day. There are not, in fact, plentiful caves to support human settlement without any structures. Permanent and temporary constructed shelters were a necessary part of human development once our population got high enough in a region with adverse weather. 3.) People do not universally label others who like something niche and decry the mainstream as pretentious. I have plenty of friends who hate marvel movies because they’re pop-culture worm food, and instead prefer black-and-white film. They don’t lord over me by saying the movies they like make me inferior to them. That’s why I stay friends with them. 4.) This video fundamentally misrepresents the concept of personality. The way you act is not entirely composed of things you like and dislike, and what you’re willing to talk about. Affectation, mannerisms, emotional tendencies, attitude toward others. These things are habitual. You certainly can alter them with effort, but most people who know you will agree on those aspects of your personality regardless of what else you try to hide. “We all wear masks” is not an excuse for being an asshole to someone. 5.) This video conflates the idea of pretentiousness with class ambition for literally no reason. “Pretentious” is not an insult leveled at the poor by the rich, but the other way around. Having a friend with no money who likes fine wine is just abnormal, it’s not necessarily pretentious. Having a rich friend who insists on bringing his own bottle of fine wine whenever you go to a restaurant, because they won’t have anything that will satisfy him, is pretentious. It is entirely possible to strive to be something greater than your current self without judging others by that metric. 6.) Being pretentious is also different from just lying. This video makes an effort to combine the ideas of lying, judging, being ambitious, and enjoying things into the word “pretentious”, when there is no reason to do so. When politicians pretend to be just like you to get the vote, they aren’t being pretentious, they’re lying. Being a lying statesman is morally worse than being a pretentious statesman. People don’t say “My governor just gave us $600,000 in additional school funding, but he’s just so pretentious! I hate him!” Lying about who you are and what you care about as a politician puts you on the track to make bad policy. Being pretentious doesn’t have any bearing on what laws you’ll write or vote for.
That made me think a lot. I'm always worrying about my work being "honest" and I'm always scared of being pretentious. This video seriously challenges that mindset.
Using “pretentious” in place of ambition, curiosity, innovation, etc. is strange. In common use “pretentious” is wielded against a person or micro-culture that has done something different FOR the sake of setting themselves as the superior “in-crowd.” Ambition can exist for the sake of mastering a craft, bettering the lives of others, or other noble causes and not be pretentious. Curiosity is a disease I have that makes me want to learn about everything on earth. If I use that to belittle others and make them feel ‘lower’, I am pretentious. If I use it to connect with others, lift them up, understand where I’m deficient, etc. I don’t think that is pretentious. Really love the channel, and this was thought provoking! ….but I respectfully disagree with the premise because I disagree with the use of the word.
as someone who has spent a lifetime worrying about being seen as pretentious for having pretentious interests, this video really hit the spot. also, your art is really awesome, just needed to point that out
There's a lot of self hatred when it comes to labeling something pretentious, it usually stems from an inferiority complex, or basically a "You think you're better than me?" attitude. When insecure people see others doing things that they deem beneficial, or are passionate about the things they love; whether it be a creative or educational pursuit, instead of internalizing that feeling to and self-reflecting to better themselves, they turn to the easier option, which is to ostracize the person they have now falsely labeled as being pretentious solely for being in their element. I have been guilty of this before, but once you jump past it you unlock a whole world of self betterment that was once hidden due to the fear of being seen as pretentious.
This is such an important message. Because of my taste and interest I find myself disconnected from my demographic because they’re so trapped in the expectations that is projected into then. other peoples interests and interpretations of art is what helps me to become more empathetic and appreciative of works that I would usually dismiss. It helps me become open minded to different ideas and art. Just because you don’t understand does not mean you shouldn’t try too.
I've never heard or seen "pretentious" used in the way described in the video. For someone or something to be pretentious is to express an exaggerated or imaginary sense of value or purpose. This is not synonymous with ambition.
Pretentious doesn't really mean creative risk taking (to me at least). It usually even connotes hidden cheapness and unoriginality, meaning there wasn't enough risk taking or ambition. When we call a piece of art pretentious it can be that we are pointing out a felt misguided aspiration in an artist to create something that is percieved as great or important rather than actually try to be those things. It's not necessarily about failing to do what was intended but about the intentions themselves.
I once had an entire group of people imply that im always "trying" to be different. It was so incredibly hurtful as someone who is neurodivergent and trying very much to express myself while also watering myself down so i dont overwhelm everyone. Sometimes you are more pretentious when you're actually fitting in honestly. I am wildly creative but i dont have the artistic skill so my art never looks how i envisioned it. But i could sulk over it, or i could keep trying. And i understand and grasp concepts easily, but communicating them to others is very difficult for me. So i really, really never liked the word pretentious- Its actually funny to come across this video because I've been saying this stuff for years.
Understandable. Do ponder though, it is 'society,' after all: we want to fit in, we want to be accepted, - isn't it what we're after? Individuals certainly express disapproval due either; you being 'special/different' in the beginning, or they're insecure. Either way, it's understandable to either agree or disagree on being pretentious. What I do not agree, is the complete being of pretentious; everybody is different, society is one or several groups, - they have rules because it's what THEY possess, - and surely, being different is rather okay. Having a 'society' is not merely one whole, but in variety.
Yea. Ironically, experiencing that kind of interaction may make me actually feel a kind of “arrogance”, but its not a true arrogance as its actually rooted in feeling alienated and not understood. Its frustrating living in a world where the things you find most fulfilling are not appreciated. Its lonely.
Why I've always preferred to just say "I don't get it" when someone shows me a painting or tells me a joke I don't understand. I'm not afraid of looking "simple" so I'll sacrifice my ego for the sake of clarity.
To me, pretentious just means trying to be something more than what you actually are. Putting on a “pretence.” It’s quite a useful word,really. I will concede it’s probably overused/misused/abused.
Actual definition: Claiming that or behaving as if one is important or deserving of merit *when such is not the case.* The root of the word is literally pretend. It's not about striving for greatness, it's pretending you're already great.
This creates an interesting conundrum, though, because faking it until you make it is the uncomfortable way in which everyone becomes great. If you don't drop the pretense of humbleness you will be afraid of showing yourself in an effective way. When an artist or an entrepeneur is just starting and has a strong idea, they can just sell that: the idea. They see something that doesn't exist: this means they need to have the confidence to PRETEND that their idea will work, to gain the trust of viewers/investors. Do they KNOW it will work? They suspect it, but no one knows the future 100%, a lot of what we do are shots in the dark. So yeah, I think you need to wear the dirt of sin and be pretentious, pretend you're already great when such is not the case, accepting the risk of looking like...a pretentious fool. You start by pretending, and if you're worth something you actually become great. There is no other way.
@@juansanders-ck1olplat·i·tude noun a remark or statement, especially one with a moral content, that has been used too often to be interesting or thoughtful.
thanks so much for this, it was very validating. growing up, I was always called "pretentious" by peers because I enjoyed classical music, art museums, etc. I just genuinely love those things...obviously biased here, but I think you're right that it's only harmful to call someone pretentious
I have a sneaking suspicion that the simple fact that you liked those things wasn't what led your peers to call you pretentious. When I think of "pretentious", it's someone who vocally advertises their preference for "high" media and criticizes "low" media. If you want to tell me about how you went and saw Wagner's opus with the missus that's all well and good, just don't scoff at me for rewatching the first three seasons of spongebob.
@@InnerDness why do you think that I looked down on others, that I disliked anything outside "fine" art, or that I considered my tastes "high media?" those are three major assumptions you somehow extracted from my comment. out of curiosity, what led you to hold these assumptions?
@@wizardworld420 I said I have a suspicion and then gave my interpretation of the word "pretentious", which is, I think, more common than the one presented in the video. You made the (somewhat understandable) leap that I was saying you were those things. I don't know I wasn't there, but I feel like if someone is constantly being labeled as pretentious, they're doing more than simply enjoying things.
@@InnerDness or maybe the presupposition you have that everyone who calls someone pretentious is using the word right and doing it in good faith, is wrong.
Pretentious is one of those words that really messed with my head for a long time. It felt like just attempting to do anything was "pretentious" and it really hindered my creativity even to this day. Thank you for addressing this.
I usually define pretentiousness as making something more grandiose than what accessible and appropriate understanding calls for. Like when someone uses three-syllable words that their audience is more than likely not going to know just so they can sound smarter than their peers.
I always saw pretention as someone not only pretending to be something you're not, but looking down on those who aren't into the thing/subject you're into. It's having an air of superiority without being able to back it up. Simply aiming for something greater than where you are isn't pretention.
I was just finishing up my fencing tournament about to board my yacht when I found this video. Thankfully, I can enjoy my imported cheese in peace, and in fact, feel good about it.
this channel is such high quality in its production but what sets it out more, i think, is how useful its ideas are and how easily understandable they are in the way theyre explained. I think everyone, or atleast people like me who have been overly cynical due to insecurities, needs to hear this
No, it isn't. Pretension is attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed. Dictionaries exist. Use them.
@@bouncycastle955 I think having pretensions and being socially pretentious are two different things. The former is higher personal standards, the latter is bad faith exhibitionism.
@@bouncycastle955 I guess I’m segregating the definition between those who are merely critics and those who are creators. I’m not really disagreeing with you.
that was unexpected, but i loved your video! I hate contemporary art and i am quick to judge others for liking things i don't understand, like fine wine. Of course, i won't be vocal about something so personal. But still, now that i think about it, it ends up limiting myself, as i become fearful of criticism too. Turns out, judgemental attitude only limits everyone.
I get really tired of constantly having to defend the things I like and apologize for things I like being weird and postmodern for fear of being labeled pretentious. Like I can't ever recommend my favorite book, house of leaves, for fear of people thinking I'm pretentious.
House of Leaves? You pretentious SOB the only thing you need to read is Sports Illustrated. Fr tho I always try to have at least one extra copy of HoL, and I literally throw it at people who I think might be interested in it. Just because it fucks with the way you read it doesn't mean it's insanely pretentious - the story and themes contained therein are deep, yes, but not necessarily so complex that the average person can't get them. It's one of those books you just want to talk about with someonr
@@cooldudemcswagcooldudemcsw4697 you could have commented literally anything else but you decided to write "shits lightly" and now i can't stop laughing and my lungs hurt, thank you
Thank you. ❤. I so needed to hear this today. I have issues outside of myself and my own experience that I care about. I have been working to address, and bring awareness to those issues, and I had someone pull this pretentious card on me. It really took the wind out of my sails for a moment. I just found your channel today, but I’m on video 3 or 4. ☺️. As long as it’s done for the right reasons, it’s not pretentious to care. 😎
I like this take. I also have binged this man’s content over the last two days. I’m almost caught up cause I have a lot of free time on my hands while I sell cars.
I personally believe ambition is when someone yearns for greatness, while pretentiousness more when someone claims greatness without really striving for it. Of course, to distinguish the two as an audience member is where things get very tricky
I think being pretentious is often confused with condescending comments. Someone is a fan of this expensive drink. While they drink this pricey beverage, they make condescending comments about someone else who is drinking a cheap beverage. The person doesn’t want to drink the expensive wine. They prefer the tried and true beer. The person drinking the expensive wine, start making fun of the cheap beer. They make a sarcastic joke about how they are “Down to Earth.” They are being condescending because they are drinking an expensive wine. Thus, people call them pretentious [>
Well, like pointed out in the video, the situation can also be flipped. The guy who enjoys domestic bears might also think of wine drinkers as "fancy" or "snobs" simply because they don't like the same choice of beverage. That is pretentious, too.
i think it all comes down to knowing your audience. i work in sales and have had coworkers accuse me of “code switching” when talking to different clients. but thats how you should react to your every day life. reading the vibes and changing yourself slightly to fit their world view. hopefully that made sense
Being pretentious is the antonym of being humble. When you understand that life is short and you need to push farther than yesterday, you will also need to be pretentious.
Confidence or arrogance is the antonym of being humble. Being pretentious is the antonym of being authentic or straightforward, because pretence is the delusion of being better, smarter or more qualified than you actually are. Think of mansplainers or people who write simple sentance with every word in a different paragraph that's suppose to appear as a deep poem.
I've always considered "pretentious" to not be striving for something better but rather genuinely believing you are more skilled than you are and simultaneously using that belief to judge people you deem lower than you. I don't think it's necessarily being pretentious unless the person is using their perceived worth to judge and/or mock people they perceive as having less worth than themself. If that were the definition agreed upon, then I wouldn't consider being pretentious as positive or helpful. To me, being condescending and being pretentious have major overlap. I guess the key difference is that pretentious behavior would be purposefully flaunting perceived superiority rather than unknowingly behaving that way.
I feel this a lot of the time when I finally get the opportunity to use an "advanced" word - a rare specific word that was built for the exact purpose I'm about to use it for. Then I think to myself "I'll sound pretentious if I use this word... Better not"
As many others have said, the colloquial use of pretentious seems to be different somewhat from what you refer to. When you brought up its association with inauthenticity, I think that is actually crucial to something being pretentious. Someone can be a dilettante without being pretentious. Now if you've dedicated considerable time and effort towards competency, fluency, or mastery and become a bit obsessed or arrogant about it, even then that's not a case I'd describe as pretentious. Though that's often hard to pull off unless you're basically one of the very best since otherwise you're beaten over the head constantly by the ways in which others outpace you. Regardless, someone with a passing familiarity with a topic, just enough to have more knowledge than the layman but only what you'd get from a cursory study of the field, can certainly be pretentious. In a way, pretention is unearned arrogance as I use it. And now that's got me thinking of Dunning-Kruger... Edit: After looking at the dictionary definition, it seems that what I and many in the comments are saying comports with the dictionary definition.
Most of the time interest, passion and desire to learn is written off as unearned arrogance, as you said. Often from people projecting their own insecurities and lack of passion in their own life. Believe it or not, its worth trying to make art even if you aren't Picasso.
"I will now defend the concept of pretention by lying about what people use the word to mean and pretending that it is simply a synonym of 'ambition'. This video is 11 minutes of arguing with the ghost of a belief that no one has ever held. The absolute peak of pseudo-intellectualism.
In my mind, someone can absolutely be Ambitious without being Pretentious. Something is pretentious when it's creating the air of ambition, but without any real substance behind it. It is hype, fashion and inherited prestige, that most people have to prove themselves to deserve, but others get for free, by having the right name, knowing the right people, or paying for a fancy gallery to surround their mediocre work. I agree that it is often used in a destructive way when calling someone pretentious for enjoying "fine art", but i still think the word is very important for describing how many practitioners and gatekeepers of "fine art" frame their own work. The term "Fine Arts" in itself is a great example of what I'd call legitimate pretentiousness.
I personally feel that the majority of cases of perceived pretentiousness are just falsely interpreting someone’s dislike of “shallow” art as an attack on the person who enjoys it. The same way people who are genuinely nice are perceived as deceptively trying to hide some dark secret. Not that there are no pretentious conceptions about art or media (they certainly exist) but I feel the majority of accusations are unfounded because of how rooted in insecurity they are.
I never comment on videos, but I've been binging Horses' videos and this one hit me hard. This video made me realize that I've been obnoxious and judgmental for categorizing interests different from my as born out of pretense. Just because people are punching above their weight class doesn't mean it's wrong. It's progress. I do it myself, too, with most things. Pretense has been given a negative connotation throughout the years, and that is difficult to change. But internally, if we look at it from a different lens, we can see things from a more neutral point of view. Everyone should be allowed to try to be greater than they are... including us.
And by doing so you therefore inevitably subscribe to the same emotional pattern of the people you mention. Your exclusivity is manifested in your belief, if I follow your logic, of not being pretentious. I know this is all very rhethorical, almost applying Aristotle's logic, but I hope it keeps you aware that in between black and white, there is grey, in various shades and tones. If ostracizing others is a problem to you, and it is a problem to me too believe me, be mindful of not applying that same pattern : in order to overcome a 'toxic force', I belive we shouldn't go by the same formula that that specific force is using. That's where Nietzsche is for me the top top thinker in history : being an ctive force, and not a reactive force. Those exclusive people you mention, don't call them pretentious, show them how much better you are, and they will understand your strength in the sliightest of your moves.
@@laubedunfou2848 Those people I mentioned were literally bullying me 🤡 "It's pretentious to dislike people who are being cruel to you, to show your strength simply roll over and let them bully you, otherwise you're showing 'reactive force' aka weakness." This guy 🤦♂️ How about I show you "active force" and mock you, you pretentious prick.
Self-aggrandizement is how good shit gets made. "Oh don't be so arrogant be mediocre instead and treat yourself worse so I'm more comfortable." Fuck that. You should only want the best for other people.
Pretentiousness is academic narcissism. If it isnt dismissive, exclusionary, or self-aggrandizing, it's not pretension. Without those negative aspects, we'd call it eccentric or innovative.
You cannot just generalize all the ambitions for greatness to the word 'pretentious' and say its the same thing. Pretentiousness is just an act of trying to be perceived as certain way without earning it through the actual work or meeting the requirements and its blatantly obvious to others. It's much closer to the word 'fake' than 'ambition' so you are using the word wrong or trying to convolute the meaning of the word.
I think this vid highlights the conversation about whether words truly mean their classical definition rather than their use in everyday life. pretention may truly mean someone who acts as though they are in a group they do not belong, but is more often used to demean those that have interests in the fine arts, or other fields generally considered to be "high society". I think it speaks volumes the amount of people that fall back onto definitions when a new definition is clearly being formed through popular use. food for thought, I guess.
I (philosophy major) call people pretentious who describe things in the most unnecessary way with the most complex vocabulary to first semesters just to flex to the prof
@@OGreenWorIdthe whole point of being more verbose *should* be to be more.... Wait... Did you simply say descriptive? That barely means anything, contextually
Thank you for this video. It's made me think about my own perception of pretentiousness, how I've tried to distance myself from it (at my own expense), and my 'judgement' of people I've considered to be pretentious (again at my own expense).
You seem to let go of the bad habit of shaming people for being the way they are and forgetting who you truly are. And that’s good to hear. Continue giving yourself a chance as well as anyone else that crosses your path.
Oh lordy!! Now THAT was a good video!! What a unique perspective man such a fresh new idea compared to the same recycled material that makes up so much of youtube. Thanks for this one bro!
I’ve never equated pretension with exploring and pushing yourself further. I’ve only known it to be about showing oneself to be “better” than others. Perhaps I’ve had it wrong all along.
Anytime someone makes art or music others find hard to understand or find not good they call it pretentious when in the artists mind they are just trying to do something they like which may be uncommon or purposefully try to explore a new avenue. Think of Trout Mask Replica or art house movies. Lots of people can't accept something like that existing even when it's not trying to say it's better or more sophisticated or more intelligent than other artworks in their medium yet they will always be labeled as pretentious by most people.
But it's essential to have such aspirations ! Be better ! This is not a rainbow gummybear world, you gotta make something of yourself in this chaos of personas, of noise, but also of coexisting ambitions. Fucking hell, i'm sick of tbe 'victimizeed mentality'. Do your thing ! Let's fucking celebrate and stop this nonsense, jesus chirst. Excuse this effervescent tone, it's just that all of tbis is soooo vain. Amazing video though, someone had to say it ;)
@@kelechi_77 maybe the video should have been called, “don’t call shit pretentious just because you don’t understand it.” Because really, the definition of pretentious being applied is when people wrongly use the word. Captain Beefheart was never pretentious that I know of and I never witnessed any fans of his being pretentious about Trout Mask Replica. To wrongly use a word and then argue a whole theory using the incorrectly defined word pretty much nullifies the theory. We definitely don’t need more pretentiousness. We just ‘need’ people to stop misusing the word.
This is such an eye opening video, truly saying that someone is pretentious brings them down just to make yourself feel better even though it brings yourself down as well. The term immediately shuts down any abstract, critical thinking for a topic you're unfamiliar with. You can't learn without pretending you know what you're talking about for a period of time, faking it before you make it is the only way to truly understand something.
Being pretentious isn't about striving to create or do something better. It's the attitude that you are better/more important/more valuable a person than others for liking something or whatever you've done or made is better than anyone else's and that it makes you superior. It's fine to have skills and talents that make you stand out. Same with liking things different from what others like. As soon as you use those skills and/or interests to put others down that's when you're being a pretentious douche.
I think people conflate pretentious a lot and overuse and abuse the word, especially in art and creative spaces. Often what people don’t understand or ain’t comfortable with they’ll be quick to slap a label on it or saying you’re doing too much when in reality we shouldn’t never knock someone for people passionate about something, especially those things that can improve a stable life. At the same time we have to be cognizant that not everyone will be interested in taking a deep dive into or flavor of the month either. Sing passionate about a subject matter isn’t pretentious
Marilyn Manson: "People ask me what is the point [of his paintings]? I answer them: "that is the point". That's pretentiousness in a nutshell. Calling out pretentiousness doesn't "discourage creativity". It weeds out artistic charlatans and keeps them grounded to reality. And the only way to be pretentious by calling it out is turn the act of criticism into a goal instead of an organic reaction. This is what a lot of movie critics do, for example. They are pretentious.
There are people who despise those who are into abstract art and transgressive and literary writing and call them pretentious, acting like no one could ACTUALLY like those things merely because they themselves don't get it. Half the time I have to hide my likes from people just because I don't want to be seen as the person who thinks they're better than them. Even though these people are the ones that make it impossible for people to be themselves and sit on a much higher horse than I ever could, in all my pretentiousness.
Usually when I’m calling someone pretentious, it’s because they’re using elitism as a means to degrade or devalue things other people enjoy. This video is a bit dramatic.
This video isn't really that bad, It just misses the point entirely. It's more about misunderstanding the meaning of pretension instead of actually understanding the true meaning. Pretension is to believe being something someone isn't and to feel superior because of it, and even if it's good to believe in yourself so that you get more confidence, to think you are better than the rest just won't get you to anything in life. Like Juan Manuel Fangio once said: "Uno tiene que tratar ser el mejor, pero nunca creerse el mejor".
Come on Horse. This was a miss. You don’t have to be pretentious to be interested in things. If you act like a hipster jerk just to show how awesome you are for you being you screams inauthenticity and low self esteem. Being exclusionary just because. Is pretentious. Being pretentious is not being creative
1:25 There’s a big difference between being fake and understanding what kind of presentation is appropriate in certain contexts. So no, we aren’t all inauthentic by that standard lmao 💀
There are several mistakes: You cofuse pretention with ambition. Caveman who decided to build first house cannot be pretentious because there was nobody he could pretend to be by doing this action at that time. Prententious has negative meaning because it is a cheap immitation instead of true pursuit.
Just discovered your channel and find it really insightful and love the visuals. Also - is it weird that I find your voice and cadence kinda soothing? 😄
You were doing SO well in the first few minutes. You actually convinced me and changed my mind. For a moment. Then you had to go and say "you're calling it pretentious because you won't understand it" and using the term entirely wrong by equating it with being inventive and innovative. You ruined it by acting in the exact way that makes pretentiousness so insufferable. It's okay to enjoy things that people may seem as pretentious, which was the point I originally thought you were trying to make in the first few minutes of the video. It's NOT okay to act like you're better and smarter than everyone else. Which was the direction the video ended up going in. I'm gonna be blunt, I hope you're just saying all this stuff to monetize your youtube channel and that you don't actually believe what you're saying.
When someone is being pretentious, its when they are gatekeeping, or because they believe their interests are of a higher quality. For example, I have a friend that's a big film buff- but only for obscure art films. He detests big block-buster movies, and views them only as garbage for the masses (though he's only seen a handful). And another friend who is a beer connoisseur, and is quick to write off any beer that was crafted by a well-known brand (and then tell you why the beer is bad without even trying it). These are instances of pretentious snobbery. People often confuse exotic tastes for being pretentious, but being pretentious comes with a kind of self-appointed authority, and acting as though they are better than everyone else because of their tastes. -- I have exotic and obscure interests myself, but can appreciate why others enjoy the things they do.
to be pretentious is to put on a pretence - to pretend. you don't like classical music for the music or the craft; you like it because it is elite, and you want to make yourself seem better than those around you. it is a façade. it is to present yourself as that which you are not.
I once told someone I like 40s music and he challenged me to name my favorite songs from the era. I simply replied that I did not know I just listened to the “40s on 4” radio station.
I don't know anyone who uses the term pretentious in the way you describe. I haven't seen media depictions of people using the term pretentious in the way you described. It kinda feels like this is an 11 minute video of your pretend definition of a commonly understood word.
You make a valid point; it is not of itself vicious to aim at something beyond ones' current state of being. Whilst I agree, I would classify it somewhat different. Whilst still insisting that "pretentiousness" properly speaking *is* vicious, I would say that "pretentiousness" does not consist simply in, aiming at something beyond ones' current state of being. Hence one does not commit an offense (at least, not against the values of authenticity) merely by doing so (aiming at something beyond one's current state of being). On the contrary, one who aims at something beyond one's current state of being does something properly virtuous and fundamentally enlivening. Note after all, that there does seem to be *a* vice, somewhere in the offing, against which it is worthy to react. Consider those for instance, whose behaviour suggests that they do not *aim* at some as yet unrealized state of being, but rather as though they have *attained* to that state of being *when palpably they have not*. Here there is an offense against the values of authenticity.
I would never find a certain interest, food, movie, book, music etc "pretentious". It is the person's attitude and behavior that is pretenious, its when they don't have the goods to back up their ego and what theyre claiming they know
I used to argue with an old band mate over claiming EGO. I've always been of the opinion that ego is a creative driver, if you don't believe you can create, you don't. His argument was that 'having ego is bad', which I thought was crazy, being a dickhead is bad, having an ego is natural.
This phenomenon occurs to me specifically when someone decides to force their odd interests onto others as if others have the same understanding and interest in it. To me its really similar to the "using friendgroup A humor with friendgroup B" joke. If you constantly used friendgroup A humor with friendgroup B, friend group B might start to think youre weird or even mean. In a similar way to humor interests are something that are innate and natrual, but trying to force your interests onto others who have made it clear they arent interested in it is pretentious because its simply not how we function. The more heady the interest is, the less people understand it, the more people think youre wasting time for being into it. When in reality everyone has their own weird interests and thats why humans are cool as fuck. Also the flip of this is that if you take two people who are really into a subject their energy combines and you get the EXACT oppostie emotion of pretention, (not sure the word for it but basically deep interest and understanding) youll find that those people become friends very rapidly. And the more interests you have in common with someone the better friends you can typically become. Thats why being interested in many different topics can really help you become more social and likeable. As where not being interested in any makes you apethetic and edgy.
Hospitality taught me the importance of pretentious things. Often what we consider to be luxurious (and pretentious) is born of oddities in the human psyche. However, those oddities are very real (inseparable from what it means to be human), and we cater to them in hotels, restaurants, and event venues. People don’t NEED the doorman to wear fancy clothes, the front desk representative to speak in a fancy way, the room to be absolutely spotless, or the bottle of wine to be $300, but we all seem to like those sorts of things. Nothing wrong with that, I think. It sets a bar for what we consider to be excellence, and I like that.
I would not conflate being imaginative with being pretentious. If anything Pretentious people are utterly Lacking in imagination because they are trying to copy what they think is superior behavior.
I strongly but respectfully disagree. Authenticity exists, and its subversion is detected. Although the accusation is frequently hurled by lazy, uncreative people who want an easy way to undermine any perspective they disagree with, there are also times where the label is truly deserved. Striving for unprecedented greatness is not pretentious, and only a person with deep insecurities and a feeble imagination would say otherwise. ACTUAL pretention is a form of falsehood. It is literally bullshit. It has no value, and is morally reprehensible.
For me, pretention really has more to do with the way you view others. Like, what makes somebody pretentious is thinking that they are better for liking the fancy wine over the cheap beer. Like the wine itself isnt pretentious, its looking down on other bc they like something cheaper or simpler that makes one pretentious
Someone who's pretentious is by definition someone who lies to make themselves look better. Given the current climate I think that's the last thing we need
When I think of pretentious art, I usually think of hack art. Stuff that's really not that complex or hard to produce, but it's deeper ascribed meaning from the author (or lack there of) is what gives it the meaning. The banana in the thumbnail is a great example. If your art needs an asterisk explaining why it's meaningful, it's just kind of shitty and pretentious art imho. And also, if it gives YOU meaning, than by all means, enjoy it, but don't be shocked when others don't.
"Above all that, being pretentious is usually a good thing. It's LITERALLY the fuel that pushes our society forward." Um, NOT literally. Literally would be putting fuel into people to move them forward. OMG.
